S1: From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's
S1: your host, Sam Collins.
S2: Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
S2: for the next half hour we talk matters of blindness
S2: and low vision. Hello and welcome to this special World
S2: Braille edition of Talking Vision. Today we'll be chatting with
S2: two individuals where Braille has played a major role in
S2: their life from a very young age. First up, you'll
S2: hear from Tess Herbert. You may remember a year or
S2: two ago, I caught up with tests for World Braille
S2: Day to discuss the role that Braille has played in
S2: her life, especially in enabling her to pursue her love
S2: of stories and reading. That conversation's coming up very shortly,
S2: so make sure to stay tuned. And then later on
S2: in the show today, Stella Gloria catches up with Dorothy Hamilton.
S2: Dorothy is a name familiar to a large portion of
S2: you out there. I'm sure she speaks about the doors
S2: that Braille has opened for her as a musician, teacher,
S2: and tireless Braille music advocate. And to wrap up this
S2: show this week, following on from Dorothy, we've got a
S2: little treat for you all out there. There's a piece
S2: of music from the Braille Music camp, the annual camp
S2: in Mittagong for children who are blind or have low
S2: vision to learn by our music. I hope you'll enjoy
S2: this week's special World Braille Day edition of Talking Vision.
S2: In celebration of World Braille Day, we're talking to a
S2: few people where Braille has changed their life, and the
S2: next voice you hear might be familiar to quite a
S2: few people. It's Tess Herbert who joins me to celebrate
S2: World Braille Day. Tess, welcome to Talking Vision. Thanks very
S2: much for being here today.
S3: Thank you for having me, Sam. It's very strange being
S3: in the the chair of the interviewee as opposed to
S3: the interviewer. That's right.
S2: And quite exciting. I don't I don't think we've done
S2: this before. So it's, um, it's always. No, it's a
S2: new experience for both of us. I think it.
S3: Is. And, you know, working together for, for, you know,
S3: well over a year, it's kind of fun to be
S3: interviewing and, and what better day to do it than
S3: for World Braille Day. Thank you for having me.
S2: Super fun. Great to have you. Now, um, firstly, Tess, um,
S2: why don't you start off by telling us the story
S2: of how the love of reading started with them with Braille,
S2: as I understand, 25 years ago, when you were for
S2: your hand at a five page Braille book.
S4: Yes, yes.
S3: It was about 26 years ago, 1995, I think. I mean,
S3: I'd always loved books from from when, you know, I
S3: don't even know how. I mean, as long as I
S3: can remember, I've loved books and my, my, my father
S3: and my mum, they used to read me the Faraway
S3: Tree books and, um, you know, Enid Blyton, Roald Dahl,
S3: my Nana and my both my grandmothers would read me
S3: specific books. There was Meg and Meg, um, and a
S3: bunch of others. And so I just, you know, books
S3: and stories were just my whole, you know, that that
S3: and music, but particularly stories was basically just my favourite
S3: thing in the whole world. And I was always listening
S3: to tapes, story tapes, um, you know, the playschool stories or, um,
S3: Grimm's Fairy Tales or whatever there was. I was just
S3: always listening to it because I loved it. Um, and
S3: then when I was four and I went to what
S3: we called preschool in New South Wales, and it's possibly
S3: called kindergarten in Victoria, I'm not sure. So when I
S3: was in, in preschool, kindergarten or whatever it's called, um, I,
S3: you know, I had a visiting teacher, um, Wendy, who
S3: specialized in Braille. And so I don't really know I
S3: don't know whether I was halfway through my second year
S3: of preschool because we'd have two years. And so maybe
S3: about halfway through or something like that. Um, she handed
S3: me a book, uh, about 4 or 5 Braille pages,
S3: and it was simply entitled Where's Tessa? Which I thought
S3: was great. I didn't really twig the book had been
S3: written specifically about me on the Braille Machine by Wendy.
S3: I was just like, wow, I'm in a book. I'm
S3: in a book. This is great. Yes. I'm ready. I'm
S3: a celebrity. And, you know, it was where's Tessa? You know,
S3: is Tessa beside the gate or at the paddock? And
S3: I don't entirely know where Tessa ended up being, but
S3: we found her eventually. And that was the first Braille
S3: book that that I ever read. And then, you know,
S3: I remember reading smaller books like, um, The Very Hungry
S3: Caterpillar and books about triangles. There were there were a
S3: lot of them. But finally, for the first time, as
S3: well as having people read to me and listening to
S3: stories on tape, I, um, I could actually read, you know,
S3: small books, which I thought was very, very exciting and,
S3: you know, reading Braille, writing in Braille, that was basically,
S3: you know, all I knew for the first few years. And,
S3: I mean, I didn't learn to touch type on a
S3: computer until about 9 or 10. But for those first
S3: few years, all my school classes were done in Braille,
S3: and I just I got better and better and read
S3: more books. And then it sort of just developed from there.
S2: Okay. So you've talked about, um, a few of the
S2: exciting aspects of Braille, but what were some of the
S2: other benefits of being able to read with Braille from
S2: your point of view?
S5: Oh, I would.
S3: Say the biggest benefit, and I started to realize this
S3: when I was about 11, is that you didn't need
S3: lighting to read Braille. Everyone else, you know, when lights
S3: went out in our house, no one else could read.
S3: Because if you turn the light on, um, when everyone
S3: was meant to be asleep, it was fairly easy for
S3: mum and dad to see that. Um, however, I could just,
S3: you know, have the book under under the covers. I
S3: could basically read until my heart's content, um, lights out
S3: or not. And I and I found this particularly useful
S3: when I was reading a book called looking for Ala Brandy,
S3: which some listeners may be familiar with. It was a,
S3: you know, I mean, it was about a 17 year
S3: old and I was only 11, so it was possibly
S3: a little bit old for me, but I didn't mind that.
S3: And I actually think sometimes it's better for, um, younger
S3: children to read books that are a bit old for them,
S3: introduces them to new concepts. But I was getting fairly
S3: close to the end, and this book came in seven volumes.
S3: So I was I think I'd started about, yeah, I
S3: was in volume seven, and the character, um, the main
S3: character was in the process of being jilted by her boyfriend.
S3: And so I did not want to put the book down.
S3: And it was, you know, time for bed. And my
S3: sister had turned out her light and was going to sleep,
S3: but I was buggered if I was not going to
S3: find out what happened after her boyfriend dumped her. So
S3: I just kept reading and I finished the book and
S3: no one was any the wiser. So that that was
S3: probably the biggest benefit. And that continued sort of, you know,
S3: later on, if I wanted to read a book, it
S3: was quite easy. And I could I mean, I didn't
S3: I didn't tend to read, you know, after midnight or anything,
S3: but I could certainly read late into the night, which
S3: I really enjoyed.
S2: So there's no there's no noticeably tired, sleep deprived tests
S2: in the morning. No, no, no.
S3: Well, I mean, if there was you know, I don't
S3: I don't know that anyone really attributed it to reading
S3: and I just tend to sleep in. But yeah, those
S3: are the benefits.
S2: Okay, cool. But on the other side of that for you,
S2: I think you've said in the past that, uh, reading
S2: Braille hasn't always been easy for you. So tell us
S2: a bit more about that.
S3: Apart from the fact that I'm quite a slow reader
S3: because the books had to get railed, especially, you know, by,
S3: I think it may have been the Royal Blind Society
S3: at that stage, um, which is now in Australia, you
S3: couldn't just walk into a library and, and, and grab
S3: the book that you wanted. You couldn't just go to
S3: the school library and grab whatever book you wanted as,
S3: as you could. If you were reading print books. These
S3: books had to be special. Israel. And some of them,
S3: of course, hadn't been. So it could be quite a
S3: long wait. Which, if you are, you know, if you're
S3: very bookish and there's a book that you particularly want
S3: to read and everyone else is able to read it,
S3: it's not a very nice feeling to have to wait
S3: for that book to be made available in Braille, when
S3: everyone else can just pick it up and read it
S3: in print. I think the hardest thing was the Harry
S3: Potter books, especially the fifth Harry Potter book. I mean,
S3: the first one, um, my dad read to us, and
S3: then I had it available, an audio CD, and then
S3: I had it in Braille much later, but and I'd
S3: been so looking forward to having it in Braille, because
S3: it's very different to be able to read a book yourself,
S3: you know, either with your eyes or with your hands or,
S3: you know, even even with your screen, even with the
S3: screen reader. Um, and, and sort of hear the voices
S3: in your head yourself without someone else doing them, you know,
S3: really and be able to, especially in Braille, um, be
S3: able to, to hear, see exactly how the words and
S3: names were spelt. You know, I didn't know how word
S3: names like, you know, um, McGonagall and Dumbledore with spelt
S3: until I got to see them in Braille, you know,
S3: which was different to how everyone else got to see them.
S3: So to be able to to feel those, those letters
S3: and words and characters and follow the plot with my
S3: fingers was the most remarkable experience, um, for a nine
S3: year old. And I think that book came in about, oh, God,
S3: like 12 volumes, but I didn't care. I was so excited.
S3: But it did become a problem when I was about
S3: 12 and the fifth Harry Potter book came out, because
S3: by that stage, you know, we were following them like
S3: we for the fourth one, we would run down to
S3: the letterbox, you know, just to see if it had arrived.
S3: So it was very new and everyone else had a copy,
S3: but of course, it hadn't been made available in Braille yet.
S3: Or if it had, I hadn't been told. So everyone
S3: else had a copy and I didn't. And that's the
S3: first time, and by far not the last, that it
S3: hit me that everyone else could read this book that
S3: I really wanted to read, and they could read it
S3: in their own time whenever they wanted, you know, for
S3: as long as they wanted, and I couldn't. And so
S3: that was the very first time that I realised that, yes,
S3: reading and Braille was great, but it also came with
S3: the big problem in that you couldn't just go and
S3: pick a book out of the library, and it can
S3: be a bit upsetting. And I think it was, ah,
S3: it wasn't the first time, but it was was one
S3: of the only times when I was 12 that I
S3: really felt like being blind was a crappy thing to,
S3: to happen. Because, you know, when they talk about being blind,
S3: they normally talk about things like, oh, you know, she
S3: won't be able to find a way around or she
S3: won't be able to do these things myself. All those
S3: things are very manageable. But if you cannot read a
S3: book that that you really want to read because it's
S3: not available yet in the format that you needed in,
S3: there is absolutely no time and energy and concentration that
S3: will make that better.
S2: Despite the challenges, though, you've, um, you've talked before about
S2: the thrill of new Braille books arriving at, um, either
S2: at school or your house. For example, the fifth book
S2: eventually arriving um.
S6: Did did.
S2: One day.
S3: I don't even know how many volumes that came in,
S3: but oh my God, that was like Christmas. And Christmas
S3: had happened the month before and I just I went 2.0,
S3: Christmas 2.0. I know it was January. And when you
S3: have been wanting to read something for yourself and really,
S3: you know, if I if Braille had not been invented,
S3: I would not have those experiences. I mean, it really
S3: did change my life, you know, it it brought books
S3: to me like it made books accessible. I didn't have
S3: to just wait until I could get them on tape
S3: at the Swan Hill Library. They would turn up at
S3: my school and I could read them. And even now,
S3: you know, even now I use Braille because if I have, um,
S3: a presentation that I have to give or a script or,
S3: you know, anything that I have to, that I have
S3: to be able to read it out. I just, I
S3: type it up and I read it out in Braille
S3: with my fingers, because otherwise I had to spend a
S3: lot of time memorizing it, which would. Make me terribly,
S3: terribly nervous. And that Braille essay that I read out. Um,
S3: some of you might remember last year for World Rail Day.
S3: That was all I read that in rail. You know,
S3: I was talking about rail and I was reading it
S3: in braille because otherwise I would have had to remember it,
S3: which wouldn't have been so good. So in spite of
S3: the challenges, it really has brought a lot of benefits
S3: and it really has changed my life.
S2: That does sound like there have been a lot of benefits. And, um,
S2: despite those challenges that you have talked about, it really
S2: does sound like it has changed your life. And that's
S2: fantastic to hear and all the exciting, you know, memorable
S2: experiences that you've had over the past 26 years reading, um,
S2: reading in Braille. So that's, um, fantastic. Thank you so
S2: much for sharing all, um, all those experiences with us. Tess,
S2: that was Tess Herbert there a voice quite a few
S2: of you, I'm sure, are familiar with talking to me
S2: today about her Braille reading experiences over the past two
S2: and a half decades. Test. Thank you so much for
S2: being here on our special World Braille Day episode of
S2: Talking Vision.
S3: Thank you for having me, Sam, and happy World Braille Day, everyone.
S3: And let's let's make sure every year that we never
S3: forget how important Braille is, because Braille is so important
S3: from just a literacy point of view, and because you'll never,
S3: no matter how quickly you can read through a book
S3: on your screen reader, you will never be able to
S3: replace the experience of actually feeling the words right in
S3: front of you. So let's let's never forget how important
S3: that is. And happy World Braille Day.
S2: I'm Sam Corley and you're listening to Talking Vision on
S2: Vision Australia Radio, associated stations of RPA and the Community
S2: Radio Network. I hope you're enjoying this special World Braille
S2: Day episode of Talking Vision. We just heard from Tess
S2: Herbert there, but if you missed any part of that
S2: conversation with Tess, or you'd love to have a listen again.
S2: Talking vision is available on the Vision Australia Radio website
S2: at RVA radio.org. That's RVA radio.org. Or you can find
S2: the show on the podcast app of your choice or
S2: through the Vision Australia library. And now here's Stella Glory
S2: with musician, teacher and Braille music icon Dorothy Hamilton.
S1: We are dedicating Talking Vision today to Braille in general
S1: and when I think of Braille and Braille music, I
S1: always think of Dorothy Hamilton, who is with me now
S1: to discuss Braille. Thanks for your time today, Dorothy.
S7: It's a pleasure.
S1: I should actually, uh, let's give the listeners a little
S1: bit more context. So you are, um, a Braille music
S1: teacher or just a music teacher in general, I should say? Yes.
S7: I'm a music teacher, and I have taught Brown music
S7: as well.
S1: And you are also the first blind woman in the
S1: southern hemisphere to get your Bachelor of Music.
S7: Yes, I believe so.
S1: So you wouldn't have done it without Braille, I understand.
S7: I just could not have done anything. I couldn't have
S7: coped in life without Braille. I used it every day
S7: of my life.
S1: Let's talk a little bit about that. You were a
S1: big fan, and you used of the frame and stylus?
S7: Yes. When I went to school right back in 1932,
S7: that's when we learned our braille with using the braille
S7: frame and stylus. The frame, uh, represented. It was a
S7: wooden board with holes down either side. And it had
S7: a guide which had six dots. Uh, in a cell,
S7: 25 cells in a line. And there were two lines.
S7: So when you finished writing in the one line, uh, one, uh,
S7: set of lines, uh, you moved the guide down to
S7: the next lot of holes so that in the end,
S7: then we had a whole page. The little cells in
S7: the guide had six little niches now called one, two, three, four, five, six.
S7: But we called them top right, middle right, bottom right,
S7: top left, middle left, bottom left. And that's how we.
S7: So we dotted each little, um letter, each dot to
S7: make a letter. For example we would do .145 for
S7: the letter D or perhaps .123 for L. And but
S7: of course we'd say top right, middle right, bottom right.
S1: When you're saying this, do you think there's people listening,
S1: nodding their heads to this old frame and stylus users?
S7: Oh, maybe summer.
S1: But, uh, you said you used the frame and stylus
S1: up until 1977, so all the way through university. And
S1: something happened when the Perkins Broilers was in Australia in
S1: the 1960s. But you weren't using it, but you were
S1: kind of pushed into using the Perkins Brailler. Can you
S1: tell us that story?
S7: Yes, it's still said. I used the frame and style
S7: right up to 1977. I had no need to use
S7: anything else. Um, in 1976, George Findley, who was a
S7: well-known Braille musician and he did all the Brown music transcribing,
S7: said to me one day, you know, you'll have to
S7: learn to use this, this Perkins, everybody else's. So he
S7: showed me how to use it. Then he gave me
S7: one and he said, now put your frame and style away,
S7: and you use only the Perkins. So he went out
S7: the door and I thought, that's what he thinks. So
S7: I put the Perkins away and used to frame and style.
S7: I was very. Comfortable with that. 12 months later, the
S7: phone rang one night and it was his reader who
S7: said to me, George is very, very ill, and we're
S7: in the midst of doing a very important piece of music.
S7: Could I come around and dictated to you? I said yes,
S7: but my heart sank because I'd forgotten how to even
S7: put the paper into the Bergen's. So I quickly rang
S7: a friend and said, Hilda, Hilda, how do I put
S7: the paper in? Marge came the next day and read
S7: the music to me. I will remember it forever.
S1: So Marge was your reader?
S7: It was. Yes. Well, she was George's reader. And so
S7: she read this piece to me, and I had to.
S7: It was a massive undertaking, I can tell you to
S7: just use the Perkins because it was everything was turned around,
S7: whereas we had on the right hand side of the
S7: using the frame and style was one, two, three and
S7: that and then the left hand side of the so
S7: 4 or 5, six when you use the Perkins it
S7: was reversed. So one, two, three was on the left
S7: and four, five, six on the right. So I can
S7: tell you it was not an easy undertaking, but it
S7: taught me a lesson.
S1: Well, what lesson did it teach you?
S7: Give me a lesson. When I'm taught something, use it. Yes.
S7: And so of course, the frame and style, if I
S7: can explain, was more like you using a pen and
S7: peel pencil. And the Perkins was like using the typewriter.
S1: Do you feel like you've got a fond affection for
S1: the frame and style? Yes. And a bit of a
S1: love hate relationship with the Perkins.
S7: Well, the. Yes, it's a bit noisy, but of course,
S7: I was the Prime Minister. And of course, if you remember,
S7: when I went to university, I had to take my
S7: frame and style to the lectures and dot out everything. Wow.
S7: So that. Yeah, but I'm very pleased that I've experienced
S7: all systems.
S1: Now we do need to talk about or I really
S1: want to talk about your music broiling. Like, what do
S1: you use to.
S7: Well, now, when I first learned the piano, we all
S7: learned piano at school, and the teacher would, um, tell
S7: us what the notes to play and also play them
S7: on the other piano. So I trained our ear very well.
S7: But we were we learnt by rote, we learnt brown music,
S7: but we didn't really put it to practical use, we
S7: just learnt it. Um, it wasn't till I was about
S7: was 14 and went to a sighted teacher at the Conservatorium,
S7: and he sent me so much work to do that
S7: I couldn't rely on somebody just playing it to me
S7: and learning it by rote. So I had to learn
S7: it and learn it well and correctly, everything correctly. And
S7: that got me really moving and using my brown music.
S7: And I can tell you I use it every day,
S7: just about I certainly use Braille every day, and I
S7: have had an enormous amount of use out of Braille music,
S7: not only learning it myself, but teaching it to others.
S1: What would you say to someone who's perhaps considering either
S1: a a young person or an older person who might
S1: have recently lost their vision? Would you say to them
S1: about learning Braille? They might think.
S7: So. For it really not to have the braille skill
S7: means that you can't really be literate. You can't really.
S7: You need you can't see a word. You don't know
S7: how it's spelt. You need you really. And I think
S7: you can't comprehend things much better if you've been able
S7: to read it yourself. That's how I find it.
S1: Dorothy Hamilton, it's always a pleasure having you on the program.
S1: It's been a long time since you were on last.
S1: And Dorothy Hamilton, who is a musician in her own
S1: right and also a Braille music teacher and a Braille transcriber.
S1: Thanks for your time today.
S7: Thank you. Stella, it's been a pleasure.
S2: That was stellar glory with Braille musician, teacher, and lifelong
S2: Braille music advocate Dorothy Hamilton there. Dorothy has had a
S2: long standing association with the Braille music camps, which take
S2: place every year in Mittagong. One of the aspects of
S2: those camps is, of course, the opportunity for young musicians
S2: who are blind or have low vision to take part
S2: in a choir, to learn new songs and harness their
S2: newfound love for Braille music and a choral setting. And
S2: on that note, here is a piece from the Royal
S2: Music Choir in 2017 entitled How Lovely Are the Messengers.
UU: We are the messengers to. All of these above, we
UU: are the messengers that reach us. The gospel of peace,
UU: the gospel of all. We are the passengers that preach
UU: the gospel. It's just that we. Oh. All nations before
UU: the sound of the world. Throw away. Some of the
UU: some of the songs. That are beyond the messengers that
UU: reach us. The gospel. To the passengers. One of the
UU: things that brings us to the. For me to. Most
UU: of the. Away from all the noise. It was to
UU: other nations before the start of the first half of this.
UU: One of the nations is one of the. Us and
UU: all the. Us and the timing of the of the
UU: message of the. For me. Maybe they. To preach the
UU: gospel of the Kingdom. Preached of the Gospel of Jesus.
S2: And that concludes our special World Braille Day episode of
S2: Talking Vision. Talking vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio.
S2: Thanks to all involved with putting the program together. And remember,
S2: we love your feedback and comments. You can get in
S2: touch with us by email on Talking Vision at Vision australia.org.
S2: That's talking vision or one word at Vision australia.org. But
S2: until next week it's bye for now and Happy World
S2: Braille Day.
S1: You can contact Virgin Australia by phoning us anytime during
S1: business hours on one 308 40746. That's one 384 746
S1: or by visiting Vision australia.org that's Vision Australia call.