WEBVTT - Talking Vision 709 Week Beginning 1st of January 2024 0:00:13.208 --> 0:00:18.968 From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's 0:00:18.968 --> 0:00:20.948 your host, Sam Collins. 0:00:23.458 --> 0:00:26.578 Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And 0:00:26.578 --> 0:00:29.548 for the next half hour we talk matters of blindness 0:00:29.548 --> 0:00:33.808 and low vision. Hello and welcome to this special World 0:00:33.808 --> 0:00:38.758 Braille edition of Talking Vision. Today we'll be chatting with 0:00:38.758 --> 0:00:43.138 two individuals where Braille has played a major role in 0:00:43.138 --> 0:00:47.368 their life from a very young age. First up, you'll 0:00:47.368 --> 0:00:50.968 hear from Tess Herbert. You may remember a year or 0:00:50.968 --> 0:00:53.938 two ago, I caught up with tests for World Braille 0:00:53.938 --> 0:00:57.508 Day to discuss the role that Braille has played in 0:00:57.508 --> 0:01:01.738 her life, especially in enabling her to pursue her love 0:01:01.738 --> 0:01:07.138 of stories and reading. That conversation's coming up very shortly, 0:01:07.138 --> 0:01:10.738 so make sure to stay tuned. And then later on 0:01:10.738 --> 0:01:15.658 in the show today, Stella Gloria catches up with Dorothy Hamilton. 0:01:16.018 --> 0:01:19.558 Dorothy is a name familiar to a large portion of 0:01:19.558 --> 0:01:23.458 you out there. I'm sure she speaks about the doors 0:01:23.458 --> 0:01:28.288 that Braille has opened for her as a musician, teacher, 0:01:28.288 --> 0:01:32.938 and tireless Braille music advocate. And to wrap up this 0:01:32.938 --> 0:01:37.738 show this week, following on from Dorothy, we've got a 0:01:37.738 --> 0:01:41.158 little treat for you all out there. There's a piece 0:01:41.158 --> 0:01:45.178 of music from the Braille Music camp, the annual camp 0:01:45.178 --> 0:01:48.778 in Mittagong for children who are blind or have low 0:01:48.778 --> 0:01:52.438 vision to learn by our music. I hope you'll enjoy 0:01:52.438 --> 0:01:56.758 this week's special World Braille Day edition of Talking Vision. 0:02:01.468 --> 0:02:04.768 In celebration of World Braille Day, we're talking to a 0:02:04.768 --> 0:02:07.468 few people where Braille has changed their life, and the 0:02:07.468 --> 0:02:09.898 next voice you hear might be familiar to quite a 0:02:09.898 --> 0:02:13.468 few people. It's Tess Herbert who joins me to celebrate 0:02:13.468 --> 0:02:16.858 World Braille Day. Tess, welcome to Talking Vision. Thanks very 0:02:16.858 --> 0:02:18.238 much for being here today. 0:02:18.748 --> 0:02:21.358 Thank you for having me, Sam. It's very strange being 0:02:21.358 --> 0:02:24.778 in the the chair of the interviewee as opposed to 0:02:24.778 --> 0:02:26.248 the interviewer. That's right. 0:02:26.248 --> 0:02:29.278 And quite exciting. I don't I don't think we've done 0:02:29.278 --> 0:02:32.368 this before. So it's, um, it's always. No, it's a 0:02:32.368 --> 0:02:35.518 new experience for both of us. I think it. 0:02:35.518 --> 0:02:38.368 Is. And, you know, working together for, for, you know, 0:02:38.368 --> 0:02:40.468 well over a year, it's kind of fun to be 0:02:40.468 --> 0:02:42.928 interviewing and, and what better day to do it than 0:02:42.928 --> 0:02:45.118 for World Braille Day. Thank you for having me. 0:02:45.148 --> 0:02:49.258 Super fun. Great to have you. Now, um, firstly, Tess, um, 0:02:49.258 --> 0:02:51.958 why don't you start off by telling us the story 0:02:51.958 --> 0:02:55.768 of how the love of reading started with them with Braille, 0:02:55.768 --> 0:02:59.578 as I understand, 25 years ago, when you were for 0:02:59.578 --> 0:03:02.458 your hand at a five page Braille book. 0:03:03.328 --> 0:03:04.648 Yes, yes. 0:03:04.648 --> 0:03:08.308 It was about 26 years ago, 1995, I think. I mean, 0:03:08.308 --> 0:03:11.728 I'd always loved books from from when, you know, I 0:03:11.728 --> 0:03:13.798 don't even know how. I mean, as long as I 0:03:13.798 --> 0:03:17.098 can remember, I've loved books and my, my, my father 0:03:17.098 --> 0:03:18.958 and my mum, they used to read me the Faraway 0:03:18.958 --> 0:03:23.098 Tree books and, um, you know, Enid Blyton, Roald Dahl, 0:03:23.098 --> 0:03:26.128 my Nana and my both my grandmothers would read me 0:03:26.128 --> 0:03:29.488 specific books. There was Meg and Meg, um, and a 0:03:29.488 --> 0:03:31.918 bunch of others. And so I just, you know, books 0:03:31.918 --> 0:03:35.608 and stories were just my whole, you know, that that 0:03:35.608 --> 0:03:39.778 and music, but particularly stories was basically just my favourite 0:03:39.778 --> 0:03:41.758 thing in the whole world. And I was always listening 0:03:41.758 --> 0:03:46.198 to tapes, story tapes, um, you know, the playschool stories or, um, 0:03:46.198 --> 0:03:48.568 Grimm's Fairy Tales or whatever there was. I was just 0:03:48.568 --> 0:03:51.328 always listening to it because I loved it. Um, and 0:03:51.328 --> 0:03:54.958 then when I was four and I went to what 0:03:54.958 --> 0:03:57.538 we called preschool in New South Wales, and it's possibly 0:03:57.538 --> 0:04:00.298 called kindergarten in Victoria, I'm not sure. So when I 0:04:00.298 --> 0:04:04.558 was in, in preschool, kindergarten or whatever it's called, um, I, 0:04:04.558 --> 0:04:07.408 you know, I had a visiting teacher, um, Wendy, who 0:04:07.408 --> 0:04:11.188 specialized in Braille. And so I don't really know I 0:04:11.188 --> 0:04:13.768 don't know whether I was halfway through my second year 0:04:13.768 --> 0:04:16.528 of preschool because we'd have two years. And so maybe 0:04:16.528 --> 0:04:19.708 about halfway through or something like that. Um, she handed 0:04:19.708 --> 0:04:24.238 me a book, uh, about 4 or 5 Braille pages, 0:04:24.238 --> 0:04:27.448 and it was simply entitled Where's Tessa? Which I thought 0:04:27.448 --> 0:04:29.338 was great. I didn't really twig the book had been 0:04:29.338 --> 0:04:32.638 written specifically about me on the Braille Machine by Wendy. 0:04:32.638 --> 0:04:34.828 I was just like, wow, I'm in a book. I'm 0:04:34.828 --> 0:04:37.738 in a book. This is great. Yes. I'm ready. I'm 0:04:37.738 --> 0:04:40.888 a celebrity. And, you know, it was where's Tessa? You know, 0:04:40.888 --> 0:04:44.278 is Tessa beside the gate or at the paddock? And 0:04:44.278 --> 0:04:47.188 I don't entirely know where Tessa ended up being, but 0:04:47.188 --> 0:04:50.608 we found her eventually. And that was the first Braille 0:04:50.608 --> 0:04:53.308 book that that I ever read. And then, you know, 0:04:53.308 --> 0:04:56.458 I remember reading smaller books like, um, The Very Hungry 0:04:56.458 --> 0:05:00.988 Caterpillar and books about triangles. There were there were a 0:05:00.988 --> 0:05:03.748 lot of them. But finally, for the first time, as 0:05:03.748 --> 0:05:06.628 well as having people read to me and listening to 0:05:06.628 --> 0:05:10.828 stories on tape, I, um, I could actually read, you know, 0:05:10.828 --> 0:05:14.008 small books, which I thought was very, very exciting and, 0:05:14.008 --> 0:05:17.698 you know, reading Braille, writing in Braille, that was basically, 0:05:17.698 --> 0:05:20.398 you know, all I knew for the first few years. And, 0:05:20.398 --> 0:05:21.808 I mean, I didn't learn to touch type on a 0:05:21.808 --> 0:05:24.478 computer until about 9 or 10. But for those first 0:05:24.478 --> 0:05:28.318 few years, all my school classes were done in Braille, 0:05:28.318 --> 0:05:30.628 and I just I got better and better and read 0:05:30.628 --> 0:05:33.358 more books. And then it sort of just developed from there. 0:05:33.388 --> 0:05:36.898 Okay. So you've talked about, um, a few of the 0:05:36.898 --> 0:05:40.528 exciting aspects of Braille, but what were some of the 0:05:40.528 --> 0:05:43.498 other benefits of being able to read with Braille from 0:05:43.498 --> 0:05:44.338 your point of view? 0:05:44.908 --> 0:05:45.868 Oh, I would. 0:05:45.868 --> 0:05:49.108 Say the biggest benefit, and I started to realize this 0:05:49.108 --> 0:05:51.478 when I was about 11, is that you didn't need 0:05:51.478 --> 0:05:54.598 lighting to read Braille. Everyone else, you know, when lights 0:05:54.598 --> 0:05:56.608 went out in our house, no one else could read. 0:05:56.608 --> 0:05:59.038 Because if you turn the light on, um, when everyone 0:05:59.038 --> 0:06:00.748 was meant to be asleep, it was fairly easy for 0:06:00.748 --> 0:06:04.558 mum and dad to see that. Um, however, I could just, 0:06:04.558 --> 0:06:07.168 you know, have the book under under the covers. I 0:06:07.168 --> 0:06:10.408 could basically read until my heart's content, um, lights out 0:06:10.408 --> 0:06:13.168 or not. And I and I found this particularly useful 0:06:13.168 --> 0:06:15.808 when I was reading a book called looking for Ala Brandy, 0:06:15.808 --> 0:06:18.238 which some listeners may be familiar with. It was a, 0:06:18.238 --> 0:06:20.128 you know, I mean, it was about a 17 year 0:06:20.128 --> 0:06:22.108 old and I was only 11, so it was possibly 0:06:22.108 --> 0:06:24.298 a little bit old for me, but I didn't mind that. 0:06:24.298 --> 0:06:26.938 And I actually think sometimes it's better for, um, younger 0:06:26.938 --> 0:06:28.768 children to read books that are a bit old for them, 0:06:28.768 --> 0:06:31.948 introduces them to new concepts. But I was getting fairly 0:06:31.948 --> 0:06:34.828 close to the end, and this book came in seven volumes. 0:06:34.828 --> 0:06:37.708 So I was I think I'd started about, yeah, I 0:06:37.708 --> 0:06:42.748 was in volume seven, and the character, um, the main 0:06:42.748 --> 0:06:46.018 character was in the process of being jilted by her boyfriend. 0:06:46.018 --> 0:06:48.598 And so I did not want to put the book down. 0:06:48.598 --> 0:06:50.368 And it was, you know, time for bed. And my 0:06:50.368 --> 0:06:53.398 sister had turned out her light and was going to sleep, 0:06:53.398 --> 0:06:54.868 but I was buggered if I was not going to 0:06:54.868 --> 0:06:57.568 find out what happened after her boyfriend dumped her. So 0:06:57.568 --> 0:06:59.968 I just kept reading and I finished the book and 0:06:59.968 --> 0:07:01.798 no one was any the wiser. So that that was 0:07:01.798 --> 0:07:05.308 probably the biggest benefit. And that continued sort of, you know, 0:07:05.308 --> 0:07:07.498 later on, if I wanted to read a book, it 0:07:07.498 --> 0:07:09.598 was quite easy. And I could I mean, I didn't 0:07:09.598 --> 0:07:12.388 I didn't tend to read, you know, after midnight or anything, 0:07:12.388 --> 0:07:14.698 but I could certainly read late into the night, which 0:07:14.698 --> 0:07:15.568 I really enjoyed. 0:07:15.628 --> 0:07:19.768 So there's no there's no noticeably tired, sleep deprived tests 0:07:19.768 --> 0:07:21.568 in the morning. No, no, no. 0:07:21.568 --> 0:07:23.458 Well, I mean, if there was you know, I don't 0:07:23.458 --> 0:07:25.528 I don't know that anyone really attributed it to reading 0:07:25.528 --> 0:07:27.688 and I just tend to sleep in. But yeah, those 0:07:27.688 --> 0:07:28.348 are the benefits. 0:07:28.378 --> 0:07:32.008 Okay, cool. But on the other side of that for you, 0:07:32.008 --> 0:07:34.918 I think you've said in the past that, uh, reading 0:07:34.918 --> 0:07:38.398 Braille hasn't always been easy for you. So tell us 0:07:38.398 --> 0:07:39.778 a bit more about that. 0:07:40.468 --> 0:07:43.738 Apart from the fact that I'm quite a slow reader 0:07:43.738 --> 0:07:48.328 because the books had to get railed, especially, you know, by, 0:07:48.538 --> 0:07:50.458 I think it may have been the Royal Blind Society 0:07:50.458 --> 0:07:53.758 at that stage, um, which is now in Australia, you 0:07:53.758 --> 0:07:56.638 couldn't just walk into a library and, and, and grab 0:07:56.638 --> 0:07:58.078 the book that you wanted. You couldn't just go to 0:07:58.078 --> 0:08:00.778 the school library and grab whatever book you wanted as, 0:08:00.778 --> 0:08:02.938 as you could. If you were reading print books. These 0:08:02.938 --> 0:08:05.008 books had to be special. Israel. And some of them, 0:08:05.008 --> 0:08:07.708 of course, hadn't been. So it could be quite a 0:08:07.708 --> 0:08:11.608 long wait. Which, if you are, you know, if you're 0:08:11.608 --> 0:08:14.248 very bookish and there's a book that you particularly want 0:08:14.248 --> 0:08:17.398 to read and everyone else is able to read it, 0:08:17.398 --> 0:08:20.428 it's not a very nice feeling to have to wait 0:08:20.428 --> 0:08:22.708 for that book to be made available in Braille, when 0:08:22.708 --> 0:08:24.778 everyone else can just pick it up and read it 0:08:24.778 --> 0:08:28.738 in print. I think the hardest thing was the Harry 0:08:28.738 --> 0:08:32.338 Potter books, especially the fifth Harry Potter book. I mean, 0:08:32.338 --> 0:08:35.128 the first one, um, my dad read to us, and 0:08:35.128 --> 0:08:37.768 then I had it available, an audio CD, and then 0:08:37.768 --> 0:08:40.438 I had it in Braille much later, but and I'd 0:08:40.438 --> 0:08:43.798 been so looking forward to having it in Braille, because 0:08:43.798 --> 0:08:48.808 it's very different to be able to read a book yourself, 0:08:48.808 --> 0:08:51.688 you know, either with your eyes or with your hands or, 0:08:51.688 --> 0:08:54.028 you know, even even with your screen, even with the 0:08:54.028 --> 0:08:57.988 screen reader. Um, and, and sort of hear the voices 0:08:57.988 --> 0:09:01.288 in your head yourself without someone else doing them, you know, 0:09:01.288 --> 0:09:05.008 really and be able to, especially in Braille, um, be 0:09:05.008 --> 0:09:09.028 able to, to hear, see exactly how the words and 0:09:09.028 --> 0:09:11.218 names were spelt. You know, I didn't know how word 0:09:11.218 --> 0:09:15.208 names like, you know, um, McGonagall and Dumbledore with spelt 0:09:15.208 --> 0:09:17.038 until I got to see them in Braille, you know, 0:09:17.038 --> 0:09:18.838 which was different to how everyone else got to see them. 0:09:18.838 --> 0:09:22.438 So to be able to to feel those, those letters 0:09:22.438 --> 0:09:25.348 and words and characters and follow the plot with my 0:09:25.348 --> 0:09:28.258 fingers was the most remarkable experience, um, for a nine 0:09:28.258 --> 0:09:30.988 year old. And I think that book came in about, oh, God, 0:09:31.198 --> 0:09:34.048 like 12 volumes, but I didn't care. I was so excited. 0:09:34.048 --> 0:09:36.328 But it did become a problem when I was about 0:09:36.328 --> 0:09:38.698 12 and the fifth Harry Potter book came out, because 0:09:38.698 --> 0:09:40.888 by that stage, you know, we were following them like 0:09:40.888 --> 0:09:42.958 we for the fourth one, we would run down to 0:09:42.958 --> 0:09:44.728 the letterbox, you know, just to see if it had arrived. 0:09:44.728 --> 0:09:48.748 So it was very new and everyone else had a copy, 0:09:48.748 --> 0:09:51.328 but of course, it hadn't been made available in Braille yet. 0:09:51.328 --> 0:09:54.658 Or if it had, I hadn't been told. So everyone 0:09:54.658 --> 0:09:56.998 else had a copy and I didn't. And that's the 0:09:56.998 --> 0:10:01.138 first time, and by far not the last, that it 0:10:01.138 --> 0:10:03.358 hit me that everyone else could read this book that 0:10:03.358 --> 0:10:04.708 I really wanted to read, and they could read it 0:10:04.708 --> 0:10:07.468 in their own time whenever they wanted, you know, for 0:10:07.468 --> 0:10:09.568 as long as they wanted, and I couldn't. And so 0:10:09.568 --> 0:10:11.968 that was the very first time that I realised that, yes, 0:10:11.968 --> 0:10:14.158 reading and Braille was great, but it also came with 0:10:14.158 --> 0:10:16.138 the big problem in that you couldn't just go and 0:10:16.138 --> 0:10:17.968 pick a book out of the library, and it can 0:10:17.968 --> 0:10:20.308 be a bit upsetting. And I think it was, ah, 0:10:20.308 --> 0:10:22.348 it wasn't the first time, but it was was one 0:10:22.348 --> 0:10:24.988 of the only times when I was 12 that I 0:10:24.988 --> 0:10:28.738 really felt like being blind was a crappy thing to, 0:10:28.768 --> 0:10:31.528 to happen. Because, you know, when they talk about being blind, 0:10:31.528 --> 0:10:33.538 they normally talk about things like, oh, you know, she 0:10:33.538 --> 0:10:34.858 won't be able to find a way around or she 0:10:34.858 --> 0:10:36.958 won't be able to do these things myself. All those 0:10:36.958 --> 0:10:41.098 things are very manageable. But if you cannot read a 0:10:41.098 --> 0:10:44.368 book that that you really want to read because it's 0:10:44.368 --> 0:10:46.828 not available yet in the format that you needed in, 0:10:46.828 --> 0:10:49.948 there is absolutely no time and energy and concentration that 0:10:49.948 --> 0:10:50.938 will make that better. 0:10:51.358 --> 0:10:55.348 Despite the challenges, though, you've, um, you've talked before about 0:10:55.348 --> 0:10:58.978 the thrill of new Braille books arriving at, um, either 0:10:58.978 --> 0:11:03.118 at school or your house. For example, the fifth book 0:11:03.118 --> 0:11:04.828 eventually arriving um. 0:11:04.828 --> 0:11:06.268 Did did. 0:11:06.478 --> 0:11:07.108 One day. 0:11:07.108 --> 0:11:09.688 I don't even know how many volumes that came in, 0:11:09.688 --> 0:11:13.648 but oh my God, that was like Christmas. And Christmas 0:11:13.648 --> 0:11:17.668 had happened the month before and I just I went 2.0, 0:11:18.118 --> 0:11:22.138 Christmas 2.0. I know it was January. And when you 0:11:22.138 --> 0:11:25.978 have been wanting to read something for yourself and really, 0:11:25.978 --> 0:11:28.738 you know, if I if Braille had not been invented, 0:11:28.738 --> 0:11:31.888 I would not have those experiences. I mean, it really 0:11:31.888 --> 0:11:34.528 did change my life, you know, it it brought books 0:11:34.528 --> 0:11:37.648 to me like it made books accessible. I didn't have 0:11:37.648 --> 0:11:39.688 to just wait until I could get them on tape 0:11:39.688 --> 0:11:41.458 at the Swan Hill Library. They would turn up at 0:11:41.458 --> 0:11:43.918 my school and I could read them. And even now, 0:11:43.918 --> 0:11:48.088 you know, even now I use Braille because if I have, um, 0:11:48.088 --> 0:11:51.748 a presentation that I have to give or a script or, 0:11:51.748 --> 0:11:53.578 you know, anything that I have to, that I have 0:11:53.578 --> 0:11:55.648 to be able to read it out. I just, I 0:11:55.648 --> 0:11:57.508 type it up and I read it out in Braille 0:11:57.508 --> 0:11:59.278 with my fingers, because otherwise I had to spend a 0:11:59.278 --> 0:12:01.558 lot of time memorizing it, which would. Make me terribly, 0:12:01.558 --> 0:12:05.068 terribly nervous. And that Braille essay that I read out. Um, 0:12:05.068 --> 0:12:07.528 some of you might remember last year for World Rail Day. 0:12:07.528 --> 0:12:09.718 That was all I read that in rail. You know, 0:12:09.718 --> 0:12:11.518 I was talking about rail and I was reading it 0:12:11.518 --> 0:12:14.098 in braille because otherwise I would have had to remember it, 0:12:14.098 --> 0:12:16.888 which wouldn't have been so good. So in spite of 0:12:16.888 --> 0:12:19.588 the challenges, it really has brought a lot of benefits 0:12:19.588 --> 0:12:21.598 and it really has changed my life. 0:12:21.868 --> 0:12:25.408 That does sound like there have been a lot of benefits. And, um, 0:12:25.408 --> 0:12:28.438 despite those challenges that you have talked about, it really 0:12:28.438 --> 0:12:31.108 does sound like it has changed your life. And that's 0:12:31.108 --> 0:12:35.368 fantastic to hear and all the exciting, you know, memorable 0:12:35.368 --> 0:12:39.988 experiences that you've had over the past 26 years reading, um, 0:12:40.348 --> 0:12:43.888 reading in Braille. So that's, um, fantastic. Thank you so 0:12:43.888 --> 0:12:48.268 much for sharing all, um, all those experiences with us. Tess, 0:12:48.268 --> 0:12:51.478 that was Tess Herbert there a voice quite a few 0:12:51.478 --> 0:12:54.058 of you, I'm sure, are familiar with talking to me 0:12:54.088 --> 0:12:59.278 today about her Braille reading experiences over the past two 0:12:59.278 --> 0:13:02.758 and a half decades. Test. Thank you so much for 0:13:03.028 --> 0:13:07.528 being here on our special World Braille Day episode of 0:13:07.528 --> 0:13:08.578 Talking Vision. 0:13:09.058 --> 0:13:12.658 Thank you for having me, Sam, and happy World Braille Day, everyone. 0:13:12.658 --> 0:13:14.848 And let's let's make sure every year that we never 0:13:14.848 --> 0:13:18.538 forget how important Braille is, because Braille is so important 0:13:18.538 --> 0:13:22.588 from just a literacy point of view, and because you'll never, 0:13:22.588 --> 0:13:24.628 no matter how quickly you can read through a book 0:13:24.628 --> 0:13:27.748 on your screen reader, you will never be able to 0:13:27.748 --> 0:13:30.718 replace the experience of actually feeling the words right in 0:13:30.718 --> 0:13:32.908 front of you. So let's let's never forget how important 0:13:32.908 --> 0:13:34.558 that is. And happy World Braille Day. 0:13:41.508 --> 0:13:45.138 I'm Sam Corley and you're listening to Talking Vision on 0:13:45.138 --> 0:13:50.568 Vision Australia Radio, associated stations of RPA and the Community 0:13:50.568 --> 0:13:55.278 Radio Network. I hope you're enjoying this special World Braille 0:13:55.278 --> 0:13:59.388 Day episode of Talking Vision. We just heard from Tess 0:13:59.388 --> 0:14:02.748 Herbert there, but if you missed any part of that 0:14:02.748 --> 0:14:06.468 conversation with Tess, or you'd love to have a listen again. 0:14:06.468 --> 0:14:11.238 Talking vision is available on the Vision Australia Radio website 0:14:11.238 --> 0:14:18.138 at RVA radio.org. That's RVA radio.org. Or you can find 0:14:18.138 --> 0:14:21.558 the show on the podcast app of your choice or 0:14:21.558 --> 0:14:26.688 through the Vision Australia library. And now here's Stella Glory 0:14:26.688 --> 0:14:32.208 with musician, teacher and Braille music icon Dorothy Hamilton. 0:14:32.328 --> 0:14:38.418 We are dedicating Talking Vision today to Braille in general 0:14:38.418 --> 0:14:42.318 and when I think of Braille and Braille music, I 0:14:42.318 --> 0:14:45.708 always think of Dorothy Hamilton, who is with me now 0:14:46.038 --> 0:14:49.998 to discuss Braille. Thanks for your time today, Dorothy. 0:14:50.298 --> 0:14:51.258 It's a pleasure. 0:14:51.558 --> 0:14:54.798 I should actually, uh, let's give the listeners a little 0:14:54.798 --> 0:14:59.838 bit more context. So you are, um, a Braille music 0:14:59.838 --> 0:15:03.258 teacher or just a music teacher in general, I should say? Yes. 0:15:03.258 --> 0:15:08.448 I'm a music teacher, and I have taught Brown music 0:15:08.448 --> 0:15:09.018 as well. 0:15:09.438 --> 0:15:13.608 And you are also the first blind woman in the 0:15:13.608 --> 0:15:16.878 southern hemisphere to get your Bachelor of Music. 0:15:17.208 --> 0:15:18.948 Yes, I believe so. 0:15:19.248 --> 0:15:22.038 So you wouldn't have done it without Braille, I understand. 0:15:22.068 --> 0:15:26.508 I just could not have done anything. I couldn't have 0:15:26.508 --> 0:15:31.248 coped in life without Braille. I used it every day 0:15:31.248 --> 0:15:32.238 of my life. 0:15:33.168 --> 0:15:35.418 Let's talk a little bit about that. You were a 0:15:35.418 --> 0:15:41.028 big fan, and you used of the frame and stylus? 0:15:41.268 --> 0:15:46.788 Yes. When I went to school right back in 1932, 0:15:47.088 --> 0:15:51.828 that's when we learned our braille with using the braille 0:15:51.828 --> 0:15:58.158 frame and stylus. The frame, uh, represented. It was a 0:15:58.158 --> 0:16:04.188 wooden board with holes down either side. And it had 0:16:04.188 --> 0:16:10.218 a guide which had six dots. Uh, in a cell, 0:16:10.518 --> 0:16:15.048 25 cells in a line. And there were two lines. 0:16:15.048 --> 0:16:19.578 So when you finished writing in the one line, uh, one, uh, 0:16:19.578 --> 0:16:24.108 set of lines, uh, you moved the guide down to 0:16:24.108 --> 0:16:27.348 the next lot of holes so that in the end, 0:16:27.348 --> 0:16:31.908 then we had a whole page. The little cells in 0:16:31.908 --> 0:16:41.988 the guide had six little niches now called one, two, three, four, five, six. 0:16:41.988 --> 0:16:46.098 But we called them top right, middle right, bottom right, 0:16:46.128 --> 0:16:50.538 top left, middle left, bottom left. And that's how we. 0:16:50.538 --> 0:16:56.148 So we dotted each little, um letter, each dot to 0:16:56.148 --> 0:17:04.548 make a letter. For example we would do .145 for 0:17:04.548 --> 0:17:12.978 the letter D or perhaps .123 for L. And but 0:17:12.978 --> 0:17:16.818 of course we'd say top right, middle right, bottom right. 0:17:17.358 --> 0:17:20.208 When you're saying this, do you think there's people listening, 0:17:20.208 --> 0:17:26.208 nodding their heads to this old frame and stylus users? 0:17:26.208 --> 0:17:27.828 Oh, maybe summer. 0:17:28.488 --> 0:17:31.668 But, uh, you said you used the frame and stylus 0:17:31.668 --> 0:17:35.988 up until 1977, so all the way through university. And 0:17:35.988 --> 0:17:40.908 something happened when the Perkins Broilers was in Australia in 0:17:40.908 --> 0:17:44.088 the 1960s. But you weren't using it, but you were 0:17:44.088 --> 0:17:47.478 kind of pushed into using the Perkins Brailler. Can you 0:17:47.478 --> 0:17:48.768 tell us that story? 0:17:49.308 --> 0:17:52.578 Yes, it's still said. I used the frame and style 0:17:52.578 --> 0:17:57.258 right up to 1977. I had no need to use 0:17:57.258 --> 0:18:04.218 anything else. Um, in 1976, George Findley, who was a 0:18:04.218 --> 0:18:10.638 well-known Braille musician and he did all the Brown music transcribing, 0:18:10.818 --> 0:18:13.188 said to me one day, you know, you'll have to 0:18:13.188 --> 0:18:18.438 learn to use this, this Perkins, everybody else's. So he 0:18:18.438 --> 0:18:21.258 showed me how to use it. Then he gave me 0:18:21.258 --> 0:18:24.828 one and he said, now put your frame and style away, 0:18:24.828 --> 0:18:29.448 and you use only the Perkins. So he went out 0:18:29.448 --> 0:18:32.628 the door and I thought, that's what he thinks. So 0:18:32.628 --> 0:18:38.118 I put the Perkins away and used to frame and style. 0:18:38.118 --> 0:18:42.678 I was very. Comfortable with that. 12 months later, the 0:18:42.678 --> 0:18:46.308 phone rang one night and it was his reader who 0:18:46.308 --> 0:18:49.938 said to me, George is very, very ill, and we're 0:18:49.938 --> 0:18:53.778 in the midst of doing a very important piece of music. 0:18:53.778 --> 0:18:57.888 Could I come around and dictated to you? I said yes, 0:18:58.098 --> 0:19:01.788 but my heart sank because I'd forgotten how to even 0:19:01.788 --> 0:19:05.058 put the paper into the Bergen's. So I quickly rang 0:19:05.058 --> 0:19:08.028 a friend and said, Hilda, Hilda, how do I put 0:19:08.028 --> 0:19:12.108 the paper in? Marge came the next day and read 0:19:12.348 --> 0:19:16.098 the music to me. I will remember it forever. 0:19:16.098 --> 0:19:17.958 So Marge was your reader? 0:19:17.958 --> 0:19:22.548 It was. Yes. Well, she was George's reader. And so 0:19:22.548 --> 0:19:25.788 she read this piece to me, and I had to. 0:19:25.938 --> 0:19:30.858 It was a massive undertaking, I can tell you to 0:19:30.858 --> 0:19:35.448 just use the Perkins because it was everything was turned around, 0:19:35.448 --> 0:19:39.468 whereas we had on the right hand side of the 0:19:39.588 --> 0:19:43.998 using the frame and style was one, two, three and 0:19:43.998 --> 0:19:48.378 that and then the left hand side of the so 0:19:48.408 --> 0:19:51.768 4 or 5, six when you use the Perkins it 0:19:51.768 --> 0:19:56.118 was reversed. So one, two, three was on the left 0:19:56.268 --> 0:20:00.228 and four, five, six on the right. So I can 0:20:00.228 --> 0:20:06.048 tell you it was not an easy undertaking, but it 0:20:06.048 --> 0:20:07.248 taught me a lesson. 0:20:07.398 --> 0:20:09.408 Well, what lesson did it teach you? 0:20:09.408 --> 0:20:13.308 Give me a lesson. When I'm taught something, use it. Yes. 0:20:13.308 --> 0:20:16.278 And so of course, the frame and style, if I 0:20:16.278 --> 0:20:20.148 can explain, was more like you using a pen and 0:20:20.148 --> 0:20:25.758 peel pencil. And the Perkins was like using the typewriter. 0:20:26.268 --> 0:20:29.388 Do you feel like you've got a fond affection for 0:20:29.388 --> 0:20:33.198 the frame and style? Yes. And a bit of a 0:20:33.198 --> 0:20:35.418 love hate relationship with the Perkins. 0:20:35.418 --> 0:20:40.008 Well, the. Yes, it's a bit noisy, but of course, 0:20:40.008 --> 0:20:43.458 I was the Prime Minister. And of course, if you remember, 0:20:43.758 --> 0:20:47.148 when I went to university, I had to take my 0:20:47.148 --> 0:20:51.618 frame and style to the lectures and dot out everything. Wow. 0:20:51.618 --> 0:20:56.208 So that. Yeah, but I'm very pleased that I've experienced 0:20:56.208 --> 0:20:57.528 all systems. 0:20:57.528 --> 0:21:00.288 Now we do need to talk about or I really 0:21:00.288 --> 0:21:04.938 want to talk about your music broiling. Like, what do 0:21:04.938 --> 0:21:06.048 you use to. 0:21:06.258 --> 0:21:10.548 Well, now, when I first learned the piano, we all 0:21:10.548 --> 0:21:15.228 learned piano at school, and the teacher would, um, tell 0:21:15.228 --> 0:21:18.558 us what the notes to play and also play them 0:21:18.558 --> 0:21:22.758 on the other piano. So I trained our ear very well. 0:21:22.758 --> 0:21:27.438 But we were we learnt by rote, we learnt brown music, 0:21:27.438 --> 0:21:30.498 but we didn't really put it to practical use, we 0:21:30.498 --> 0:21:34.638 just learnt it. Um, it wasn't till I was about 0:21:34.818 --> 0:21:40.728 was 14 and went to a sighted teacher at the Conservatorium, 0:21:40.788 --> 0:21:43.698 and he sent me so much work to do that 0:21:43.698 --> 0:21:48.108 I couldn't rely on somebody just playing it to me 0:21:48.108 --> 0:21:52.038 and learning it by rote. So I had to learn 0:21:52.038 --> 0:21:57.438 it and learn it well and correctly, everything correctly. And 0:21:57.438 --> 0:22:01.608 that got me really moving and using my brown music. 0:22:01.608 --> 0:22:05.928 And I can tell you I use it every day, 0:22:05.928 --> 0:22:10.008 just about I certainly use Braille every day, and I 0:22:10.338 --> 0:22:15.828 have had an enormous amount of use out of Braille music, 0:22:15.948 --> 0:22:19.488 not only learning it myself, but teaching it to others. 0:22:19.758 --> 0:22:22.878 What would you say to someone who's perhaps considering either 0:22:22.878 --> 0:22:27.138 a a young person or an older person who might 0:22:27.138 --> 0:22:30.168 have recently lost their vision? Would you say to them 0:22:30.168 --> 0:22:33.348 about learning Braille? They might think. 0:22:33.408 --> 0:22:39.078 So. For it really not to have the braille skill 0:22:39.078 --> 0:22:43.248 means that you can't really be literate. You can't really. 0:22:43.248 --> 0:22:46.788 You need you can't see a word. You don't know 0:22:46.788 --> 0:22:51.318 how it's spelt. You need you really. And I think 0:22:51.318 --> 0:22:55.458 you can't comprehend things much better if you've been able 0:22:55.458 --> 0:22:59.598 to read it yourself. That's how I find it. 0:23:00.468 --> 0:23:04.788 Dorothy Hamilton, it's always a pleasure having you on the program. 0:23:04.788 --> 0:23:07.758 It's been a long time since you were on last. 0:23:07.758 --> 0:23:11.658 And Dorothy Hamilton, who is a musician in her own 0:23:11.658 --> 0:23:17.028 right and also a Braille music teacher and a Braille transcriber. 0:23:17.388 --> 0:23:19.248 Thanks for your time today. 0:23:19.458 --> 0:23:21.498 Thank you. Stella, it's been a pleasure. 0:23:28.438 --> 0:23:34.048 That was stellar glory with Braille musician, teacher, and lifelong 0:23:34.048 --> 0:23:39.238 Braille music advocate Dorothy Hamilton there. Dorothy has had a 0:23:39.238 --> 0:23:43.978 long standing association with the Braille music camps, which take 0:23:43.978 --> 0:23:48.568 place every year in Mittagong. One of the aspects of 0:23:48.568 --> 0:23:53.128 those camps is, of course, the opportunity for young musicians 0:23:53.128 --> 0:23:56.488 who are blind or have low vision to take part 0:23:56.488 --> 0:24:01.138 in a choir, to learn new songs and harness their 0:24:01.138 --> 0:24:05.878 newfound love for Braille music and a choral setting. And 0:24:05.878 --> 0:24:08.998 on that note, here is a piece from the Royal 0:24:08.998 --> 0:24:14.818 Music Choir in 2017 entitled How Lovely Are the Messengers. 0:24:22.638 --> 0:24:30.228 We are the messengers to. All of these above, we 0:24:30.228 --> 0:24:35.778 are the messengers that reach us. The gospel of peace, 0:24:36.258 --> 0:24:42.498 the gospel of all. We are the passengers that preach 0:24:42.738 --> 0:24:59.508 the gospel. It's just that we. Oh. All nations before 0:24:59.508 --> 0:25:09.348 the sound of the world. Throw away. Some of the 0:25:09.348 --> 0:25:18.198 some of the songs. That are beyond the messengers that 0:25:18.198 --> 0:25:28.588 reach us. The gospel. To the passengers. One of the 0:25:28.588 --> 0:25:38.538 things that brings us to the. For me to. Most 0:25:38.538 --> 0:25:50.978 of the. Away from all the noise. It was to 0:25:50.978 --> 0:25:58.388 other nations before the start of the first half of this. 0:26:01.998 --> 0:26:09.658 One of the nations is one of the. Us and 0:26:09.658 --> 0:26:19.038 all the. Us and the timing of the of the 0:26:19.038 --> 0:26:31.728 message of the. For me. Maybe they. To preach the 0:26:31.728 --> 0:26:40.188 gospel of the Kingdom. Preached of the Gospel of Jesus. 0:27:01.028 --> 0:27:05.618 And that concludes our special World Braille Day episode of 0:27:05.618 --> 0:27:11.258 Talking Vision. Talking vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. 0:27:11.288 --> 0:27:15.578 Thanks to all involved with putting the program together. And remember, 0:27:15.578 --> 0:27:18.758 we love your feedback and comments. You can get in 0:27:18.758 --> 0:27:24.368 touch with us by email on Talking Vision at Vision australia.org. 0:27:24.368 --> 0:27:29.708 That's talking vision or one word at Vision australia.org. But 0:27:29.708 --> 0:27:33.608 until next week it's bye for now and Happy World 0:27:33.608 --> 0:27:34.418 Braille Day. 0:27:37.948 --> 0:27:41.998 You can contact Virgin Australia by phoning us anytime during 0:27:41.998 --> 0:27:50.878 business hours on one 308 40746. That's one 384 746 0:27:50.878 --> 0:27:56.098 or by visiting Vision australia.org that's Vision Australia call.