S1: From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's
S1: your host, Sam Colley.
S2: Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
S2: for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness
S2: and low vision.
S3: The main idea of the inclusive design is that the
S3: product should not put any barriers in front of anybody.
S3: So this is what we were aiming for. So with
S3: the brave brain, we wanted to make it fully, like
S3: enjoyable for both sighted and blind players.
S2: Welcome to the program. We're going globetrotting in some respects
S2: on the show this week as I chat with a
S2: game developer, joining me all the way from Brno in
S2: the Czech Republic. His name is Milos. He's part of
S2: Kiki Wicked Games, a mobile game studio with a focus
S2: on inclusive barrier free gaming for the blind and low
S2: vision community. They've just released a new game and he's
S2: here to tell me all about it. That interview is
S2: coming up right around the corner. Then after you hear
S2: from Milos, we say hello to a new regular voice
S2: on talking vision. It's Sam from the shop. Here to
S2: talk all about the latest from the Vision Australia Store.
S2: I hope you enjoy this week's episode of Talking Vision.
S2: A few months ago, I caught up with Yana and
S2: Melosh from Kicky Wicked Games, an inclusive game design studio
S2: from the Czech Republic following the release of their first
S2: game to the Dragon Cave. Well, now they've released a
S2: second game called Brave Brain, and Miller is back with
S2: me to chat all about it. Miller Welcome back to
S2: Talking Vision. How are you going?
S3: Hey, Sam, thank you for inviting us. And I'm doing good. Thanks.
S2: Excellent. Now, what has Kikuchi games been up to since
S2: the last time we spoke after the release of two
S2: of the Dragon Cave?
S3: Yeah. So after a release of the Dragon Cave, we were, like,
S3: collecting feedback and started considering what will be our next step.
S3: So from the feedback we received from players of Dragon Cave,
S3: we realized that the Like players from Blind Community were
S3: enjoying the game pretty like pretty much. But from the
S3: site IT players, there was this for them. It was
S3: pretty much difficult to play the game and it's only
S3: audio based and then the players just had to rely
S3: on their hearings. So we were thinking, okay, so we
S3: would like to make a game where everyone can play
S3: without any any issues that every, every group of of
S3: the players can enjoy playing the game.
S2: Tell us a bit about your new quiz game, Brave Brain.
S2: What sort of things does that involve?
S3: Yeah, so we chose the quiz because we noticed that
S3: there is many, many such games on the mobile market,
S3: but like nearly none of them is accessible for for
S3: screen readers. And we are thinking, okay, that's sad because
S3: this is like text based game. It could be easily
S3: accessible for readers. So let's, let's try to do this.
S3: And so we decided to do that. And one of
S3: the reasons was also that this is Jana's favorite genre.
S3: While the Dragon Cave, the shooter was my favorite genre.
S3: So we wanted to balance this as well so that
S3: these were the decision points to make. Brave Brain. Okay.
S3: And in Brisbane you simply answer quiz questions. Thanks to this,
S3: you unlock more countries where you can visit and answer
S3: more quiz questions. You collect experience points with experience points.
S3: You can compare yourself with other players in the weekly
S3: or global leaderboards, and you can also collect the postcards
S3: in the game, which you can then share with your
S3: friends social networks or so. And yeah.
S4: Yeah.
S2: Some. I've had a go on my brain. It is
S2: quite a fun game and at some it is somewhat
S2: geography based and there's quite a few geography questions in there.
S2: And you know, you learn a lot of interesting facts
S2: about the landmarks in the countries, but also the cultures
S2: and foods and all that sort of thing from each country.
S2: So it's a lot of fun to find out some
S2: new fun facts every day when you're playing the game.
S2: So what was the thinking behind sort of making it
S2: geography based or country based? Was there any sort of
S2: particular reason behind that?
S3: Yeah, both me and now we love traveling. So this
S3: was something we wanted to project into the game. And
S3: we also think that the traveling and knowing the world
S3: around us is nicely connected with the with the knowledge.
S3: So it goes well together. Okay. That's our opinion.
S2: Yeah. Now for sure, 100% agree with that. And it's
S2: great to find out more about the world around us.
S2: And you know, it's always fun to learn some new
S2: fun facts and you never know when they'll come in
S2: handy for, you know, future trivia. If you go out
S2: in real life and play it with your friends. So
S2: it's yeah, it's a lot of fun. Now, Inclusive design
S2: was a major focus when creating Brave Brain. I understand.
S2: And you know, we've talked about that a little bit already,
S2: but you and Yana really focused on making it fully
S2: accessible for screen readers and for people who are blind
S2: or have very low vision. So what sort of inclusive
S2: design features can people look forward to when they play
S2: Brave Brain?
S3: Yeah. So, so the main idea of the inclusive design
S3: is that the product should not put any barriers in
S3: front of anybody. So this is what we were aiming for.
S3: So with the brave brain, we wanted to make it
S3: fully like enjoyable for both sighted and blind players. And
S3: so what we learned from the Dragon gave, okay, so
S3: we have to make it look like any other game
S3: or the on the market if we want to make
S3: it enjoyable for sighted players. So we decided to create rich,
S3: handcrafted visuals for the game. So every country and every
S3: location has its own visual representation and okay, so now
S3: we started thinking, so how to make this this visuals
S3: enjoyable for blind people as well. So we were thinking, okay,
S3: so maybe we should provide some nice audio representation for
S3: all these locations. So every location in the game has
S3: its own soundtrack. When you access location, we try to
S3: make the feeling of the place by the style of
S3: the music that's playing there. So this is how we
S3: try to provide both groups, the mood from the game,
S3: the similar feelings when you play it, regardless if you
S3: can see the visuals or not. So that was the
S3: main aim. Yeah.
S2: Okay. And what sort of things does the game audio describe?
S2: If you for instance, you go into the options menu
S2: and do tick accessibility, which is, you know, how you
S2: can access the the accessibility features. Does it read out
S2: the text boxes that come up on the game? What
S2: sort of audio description and screen reader capabilities does the
S2: game have?
S4: Yeah.
S3: So okay, so here I will mention that there are
S3: slight differences between Android and iPhone because in iPhone it
S3: was much easier for us to provide like accessibility that
S3: is very, very close to what you have naturally in
S3: the in the operating system. So when you play the
S3: game on iPhone where you have accessibility enabled, then the
S3: game automatically enables the accessibility. And if you disabled it,
S3: it disabled the accessibility in the game as well. On Android,
S3: there you have the special accessibility checkbox and the game
S3: recognizes that you run accessibility on the Android system. But
S3: there are some places where it was making us pretty
S3: difficult to make them accessible. When you open some native
S3: window in the game, like if you want to share
S3: the postcard or buy something or watch advertisement, it opens
S3: native windows and it in this place on Android, you
S3: have to disable the in-game accessibility, enable the talkback accessibility,
S3: and then you have the native accessible. So Android, it
S3: was much more difficult to provide accessibility there. But I
S3: believe that although it's not as comfortable as on iPhone,
S3: it's still still good enough to enjoy the game.
S2: So what is the progress like with that in the future?
S2: Will there perhaps be patches or updates that people can
S2: look forward to on Android that might iron out a
S2: couple of the little tiny issues with the accessibility? How's
S2: that sort of going from an Android standpoint?
S3: Yeah. So for both platforms we aim to keep the
S3: game alive and add more features, more content over time.
S3: So we will definitely be adding more countries, more quiz questions,
S3: new functionalities. We plan to like large features at Endgame
S3: over time. One of them will be some seasonal quizzes.
S3: So when there is like, I don't know, Christmas, then
S3: you will get some special time based quiz like time
S3: restricted quiz, connectivity, Christmas. And then another thing we plan
S3: to do will be like a huge step forward will
S3: be the option to play with some of your friends
S3: directly so you can challenge someone and play the quiz
S3: questions with your friend and then compare the results. And
S3: who is better than that person wins. So like online multiplayer.
S4: Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
S3: So that's we have big plans with this, unlike to
S3: the Random Game where the game was like more story
S3: based and there was not much options how to expand it.
S3: With this brave brain, we can see a lot of options,
S3: how to expand the game and add more features there,
S3: which is what we really like about.
S4: Yeah.
S2: So definitely a very different game to to the Dragon Cave,
S2: as you've mentioned. And it's really interesting to say you
S2: branch out into a completely different genre and we do
S2: look forward to following all the updates and patches when
S2: they do come out. And of course, you know, an
S2: inclusive design is a huge overarching focus for games. Throw
S2: out that. So we're looking forward to seeing the game,
S2: you know, become more and more accessible as time does
S2: go on and mellows during the game. You come across
S2: quite a few landmarks for each country tile that you
S2: land on. But what was the thought process behind choosing
S2: the landmarks and how they best represented each country?
S4: Yeah.
S3: So this was Jenna's job because she. And she's the
S3: game designer. So she did the research trying to recognize
S3: what's the landmark that most of the people could know
S3: well in the country. And she provided us with a
S3: list of, like many countries with many locations which we
S3: didn't implement it into the game.
S4: Okay.
S2: And are you willing to sort of give us a
S2: couple of clues about which ones feature for the Czech Republic?
S2: Are we going to see the rotunda of Saint Peter
S2: and Paul or maybe Franz Kafka's House or the Divorce Museum?
S2: What sort of things really captured the Czech Republic for you?
S3: Ah, for me, I definitely loved Franz Kafka because I
S3: visited it many times in the past year in Prague,
S3: so it might not be the most famous thing, but
S3: I really like it. And then for me, it's we
S3: have many old castles in Czech Republic. So again, this
S3: is more like personal thing. I don't think it's something that's.
S4: No, that's generally known. But yeah, but because like.
S2: When I sort of look it up and people mention Bowditch,
S2: which is like one of the oldest buildings and that's the,
S2: there's a lot of mythology around this building. And yeah,
S2: so it's really, really interesting to find out about that.
S2: But it's not, of course, just about the Czech Republic.
S2: There are lots of other countries out there on the map,
S2: Like for example, you start off with Grace and then
S2: there's there's the USA and Spain and Norway, and there's
S2: a lot of great little places to check out. So yeah,
S2: just play through and find out all about them.
S3: Maybe one thing I forgot to mention which, which was
S3: also part of the inclusive design, if I can, if
S3: I can mention it.
S2: Yeah, absolutely.
S3: You have these avatars in the game so you can
S3: personalize your profile. And these are like little like pictures
S3: of brain with some equipment. So that is brain swimming
S3: in under the water with, with the, with video diving equipment.
S3: So it's a like visual visual thing. But we try
S3: to provide a nice description. So even blind player like
S3: goes through the list of the avatars, you get description
S3: of each and we try to like again, make a
S3: feel by by text description about how how the avatar
S3: looks like. And the same is for postcards where you
S3: collect like nice graphically done postcard. And then we try
S3: to provide some like rich textual descriptions to provide the
S3: mood of of what's on the picture. So that was
S3: another things that we were like trying to provide with
S3: rich text description.
S2: And it's also worth noting that Yana herself is totally blind,
S2: as I understand it, and that she really brings her
S2: lived experience to this game. And so inclusive design is
S2: super important for not only her, but, you know, the
S2: whole organization, Kiki Reiki games. And you know, that's that's
S2: definitely something at the forefront of everything you both do.
S2: So it's really interesting to hear about the games that
S2: you come up with. So looking forward to hearing all
S2: about them. Now the game is available, as I understand,
S2: on both the Apple Store and Google Play for Apple
S2: and Android users respectively. But does the game cost anything
S2: or is it free for people to play?
S3: You can download the game for free and play for free.
S3: There is some in-game currency that you use during the game,
S3: so when you run the quiz, it costs you some
S3: in-game coins. Then if you run out of the coins,
S3: that is daily reward every day where you can get
S3: some more so you can play a few more quizzes.
S3: If you like to play more, you can always purchase
S3: for early money some of these in-game currencies and then
S3: when you answering the questions, then when you get something wrong,
S3: then you can like save yourself and either skip or
S3: repeat the questions by another in-game currency, which is like diamonds.
S3: And again, here, if you don't have diamonds, you can
S3: still watch Advertisement or just quit the quiz and run
S3: it again. So you can use various strategies how to
S3: play the game when you don't have to pay. If
S3: you are happy to spend more time watching the diamonds,
S3: for example, or if you like to play more or
S3: you really like the game and want to support us,
S3: then you can always purchase something in the shop for
S3: the money.
S4: Okay.
S2: And for more details about Brave Brain, where can people
S2: go to find out more?
S3: So we have a Facebook page, Brave Brain Game, where
S3: we like we are pretty active there. So you can
S3: find every week some new post about the game. And
S3: just recently we started a competition there where you can
S3: win some of the in-game currencies. So we we like
S3: trying to share as much as we can about the
S3: game and and both of you are doing there.
S2: I've been speaking today with Melosh from Reiki games, the
S2: developers of a new quiz game Brave. Spine designed for
S2: people who are blind or have low vision to test
S2: their trivia skills. Melosh, thanks so much for your time today.
S2: It was great to have a chat with you again
S2: and hear all about Brave Bruin.
S4: Thank you, Sam.
S3: It was great to be here.
S2: I'm Sam Culley and you're listening to Talking Vision on
S2: Vision Australia Radio associated stations of Th and the Community
S2: Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Milos
S2: from Kiki Wicked games telling us all about Brave Brain.
S2: If you missed any part of that interview or you'd
S2: love to hear from Melosh again, that interview will be
S2: available as an interview highlight on your favorite podcast platform
S2: or through the Vision Australia Library. And of course that's
S2: also where you'll find today's episode in full. Or you
S2: can also visit via radio. Org. That's RVA radio.org to
S2: listen to past episodes and find out more about the
S2: show coming up next. It's my great pleasure to welcome
S2: a new regular voice to talking vision. It's Sam Dry,
S2: otherwise known as Sam from the shop. Here to tell
S2: us all about the latest news from the Vision store. Sam,
S2: welcome to Talking Vision. Thanks so much for your time today.
S5: Thanks, Sam. It's great to be here.
S2: Now, firstly, Sam, tell us about the exciting additions to
S2: the vision store that have come in.
S5: Yeah, of course. So we've basically got our calendar and
S5: diary pre-sales which are now open. So we've got three
S5: calendars this year. You've got your Seeing Eye Dog's Calendar,
S5: which showcases the incredible work of the seeing Eye dogs
S5: where you'll get pictures of puppies in training. You've got
S5: your artwork calendar, which features artwork from our community of
S5: talented blind and low vision artists, and you've got your
S5: extra large print calendar, which is a double page calendar
S5: with extra large print and bold text. So dates are
S5: easier to read.
S2: All right, wonderful. And how can people grab a copy
S2: of the calendar if they're interested?
S5: So on our website, simply click on the link and
S5: then you'll have the options for all the calendars available. Otherwise,
S5: if you're in store, feel free to drop into the
S5: store and basically order with one of the staff.
S2: They're awesome. And I understand there's some diaries that are
S2: also coming out. Tell us about those.
S5: Yeah, so it's a large print diary where each date
S5: has its own page. It's perfect for writing down important
S5: dates that you can keep track of throughout the year.
S2: And what else is there in store for people if
S2: they head along to the Vision Australia Shop?
S5: We've got a huge range of products, so I was
S5: thinking maybe today I can just go through two of
S5: my favourites. Okay. The first one we've got is one
S5: of our magnifiers called the Explorer eight. Yeah, it's probably
S5: one of our best selling pieces of technology and it's
S5: one of my personal favorites. So the Explorer eight is
S5: an eight inch magnifier, which magnifies any piece of text,
S5: and it can do up to 30 times of its
S5: original size. Or you have to do is rest it
S5: over the text and slide it around. It's a perfect
S5: gift for avid readers who are struggling with small text
S5: that you often see in newspapers and books. It even
S5: comes with a travel case, so it's perfect tool to
S5: carry around if you're going on holiday.
S2: Wow, that sounds incredible. What's your other favorite? Tell us about.
S5: That. My other favorites, probably the Oli tech easy flip
S5: to mobile phone. So it's an easy to use mobile phone,
S5: which has a high contrast keyboard and large tactile buttons.
S5: It's got voice guidance, so it speaks up the numbers
S5: when you dial. And probably one of my favorite features
S5: about it is its simplicity. If you receive a call,
S5: as soon as you flip it open, it answers the call.
S5: And when you close the phone, it hangs up. It
S5: makes it a great aid for people who struggle to
S5: find the buttons on their phones. And a great gift
S5: for somebody who needs a mobile phone.
S2: That's super important for people everywhere to have a mobile phone. So,
S2: you know, that's a great little gift for sure to
S2: keep people connected. And Sam, Father's Day, of course, is
S2: coming up right around the corner. So what sort of
S2: gifts has the vision store got for the blind and
S2: low vision dads of the world?
S5: Yeah. So Father's Day right around the corner. The two
S5: that come to mind would be firstly, our talking watch range.
S5: So as we know, everybody needs to know the time
S5: with the watches. What we would say is essentially you've
S5: got talking and large print watches, the talking watches have
S5: a little button on the top corner that you can click,
S5: which will tell you the time perfect for people with
S5: low vision. The other watch that we've got, which is
S5: somewhat new, is our E one Bradley Range. These watches
S5: have two metal ball bearings that basically you feel and
S5: you can tell the time from. They're quite stylish so
S5: they're definitely a good option for the more fashionable dads
S5: out there. Okay.
S2: And what sort of colors do those watches come in?
S5: So you've got a range of five colors. There's three
S5: metal mesh bands which come in black, silver and gold.
S5: And then you have a green moss color, which is
S5: a leathery band. And then you also got a tan
S5: leather option.
S2: All right, wonderful. And Sam, for the sporty dads out there,
S2: I understand there's some exciting gifts for them to get
S2: their hands on.
S5: Yeah, definitely. So we've got a large range of different
S5: sort of audio. Ranging from cricket to soccer balls, but
S5: the one where most looking forward to and the one
S5: which seems to be popular at the moment is our
S5: audible AFL ball. So this basically has a button that
S5: is clicked internally and so the ball makes a sort
S5: of buzzing sound, meaning that anybody with low vision can
S5: join in and play AFL.
S2: Oh wonderful. And that's in addition to the balls that
S2: contain bells inside them. Is that correct?
S5: Correct, yes. So you can get an audible tennis ball,
S5: an audible soccer football, and you can even get an
S5: audible cricket rugby ball as well.
S2: Oh, well, that's very exciting. Okay. And just to wrap up, Sam,
S2: if there are people who are interested in heading along
S2: to the vision store, or perhaps they'd like to know
S2: more just about the shop in general, what's that website
S2: for them to head to?
S5: So you can find it on the Vision Australia website.
S5: There's a link that says Vision Store, or you can
S5: just type in Vision store into Google and click on
S5: the first link.
S2: That's right. Or you can head to shop dot Vision australia.org.
S2: That's shop dot Vision australia.org. To find out more. I've
S2: been speaking today with Sam Raji, otherwise known as Sam
S2: from the shop all about the latest from the Vision
S2: Australia Store. Sam, thanks so much for your time today.
S2: It was great to catch up and hear all about
S2: the latest from the Vision Store.
S5: Thanks so much for having me, Sam.
S2: And finally, in some news this week, before we go,
S2: the blonde citizens Australia c r is stepping down. Blind
S2: Citizens Australia has recently announced the resignation of CEO Sally
S2: Andrews as she takes up an opportunity to dedicate herself
S2: to academic study. Sally has been with BCA for almost
S2: six years, becoming CEO. In January of 2022. Sally will
S2: depart in late September following a recruitment process to select
S2: her replacement from the team at Talking Vision. We'd love
S2: to thank Sally for her passion and the valuable contributions
S2: she has made for many years to policy and advocacy
S2: endeavours in the blind and low vision sector, which of
S2: course only increased during her time as CEO. We wish
S2: her every success in the next chapter in her career.
S2: And further to this, we wish to thank Sally for
S2: her tremendous generosity with her time over the past few years,
S2: making herself available to chat with us about a range
S2: of important issues that affect the blind and low vision community.
S2: It's also my great pleasure to welcome Sally onto the
S2: show in the next couple of weeks to chat about
S2: her time at Blind Citizens Australia and things she's looking
S2: forward to in the next stage of her career. You
S2: can also find more information about this story on the
S2: Blind Citizens Australia website at BCA for you. That's BCA
S2: for you. In other news, there's some exciting developments in
S2: the world of public transport accessibility. It's hoped that blind
S2: and low vision passengers on Melbourne's tram network may be
S2: able to get where they need to more easily, with
S2: a trial of a new navigation app to be installed
S2: on every tram stop on Route 96, as well as
S2: on all 100 A-class trams which run on routes 1130,
S2: 58 and 86. When the codes are scanned, the app
S2: audibly provides passengers with information on their current location routes
S2: serving the location as well as live tram arrival information.
S2: The app is called Navi Lens and Yarra Trams have
S2: introduced the wayfinding and passenger information concept to Melbourne's tram network.
S2: The way it works is it takes the concept of
S2: QR codes and makes it possible for a mobile app
S2: to describe object than locations or present dynamic content, increasing
S2: tram accessibility and assisting those who are blind or have
S2: low vision with audible real time information. Yarra Trams is
S2: currently running a trial of the Netherlands technology and I
S2: invite you to join the trial. All you need to
S2: do is download the Netherlands app onto your smartphone and
S2: you're ready to go. You can register as a trial
S2: participant to provide feedback and subscribe to new regular app updates.
S2: The app is currently available on both the Apple Store
S2: and Google Play for people to download. And if you'd
S2: like to find out more about the app or you'd
S2: like to sign up as a trial participant, head to
S2: the Yarra Trams website at Yarra Trams for you. That's
S2: Yarra Trams, Dot Edu and that's all we have time
S2: for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. Talking Vision
S2: is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all
S2: involved with putting the show together. And remember we love
S2: your feedback and comments, so please do get in touch
S2: on Talking vision at Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all
S2: one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's
S2: Sam Culley saying bye for now.
S1: You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during
S1: business hours on one 308 4746. That's one 308 474
S1: W6 or by visiting Vision australia.org that's Vision australia.org.