S1: From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's
S1: your host, Sam Colley.
S2: Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
S2: for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness
S2: and low vision.
S3: One of the members said, look, you know what? With
S3: our mobility and orientation training and so forth, you know,
S3: we're pretty comfortable or confident being able to get to
S3: a tram stop and navigate around a tram stop. There's
S3: no issue there. What our biggest problem is, is knowing
S3: where the approaching tram is travelling to.
S2: Welcome to the program. If you live in Melbourne and
S2: you're a frequent tram user, our next guest has some
S2: potentially exciting news for you. His name is Wayne and
S2: he's here to chat to us all about a new
S2: app designed to help passengers who are blind or have
S2: low vision navigate around the Melbourne Tram Network more safely
S2: and accessibly. That interview is coming up right around the corner.
S2: But after we hear from Wayne, we catch up with
S2: Sally Andrews, the CEO of Blind Citizens Australia, to have
S2: a look back over her past six years at BCA
S2: as she moves on to an exciting new academic opportunity.
S2: I hope you'll enjoy this week's episode of Talking Vision.
S2: This week we kick off the show by chatting to
S2: Wayne Speers from Yarra Trams about the New Netherlands app,
S2: which is currently undergoing the trial phase over the Melbourne
S2: Tram Network. I began by asking Wayne about Netherlands and
S2: what the app was all about.
S3: Okay, so navigations originated in Spain. The company that's developed
S3: it is a Spanish company and it has been developed
S3: primarily to assist people who are blind or people who
S3: have low vision to be able to navigate from A
S3: to B. So, for instance, if somebody is at a
S3: transport interchange and they need to get from the front
S3: door to platform eight through a series of, we'll call them,
S3: Rubik's Cube looking codes, but they're augmented QR codes essentially,
S3: and that in combination with an app on the user's
S3: smartphone that allows for discreet way of wayfinding. So as
S3: the phone recognizes a code in its field of vision,
S3: it would be able to give information to the user
S3: to say, for instance, ten meters away, there's an escalator
S3: that goes up to the departure platforms or continue straight
S3: ahead to the ticketing office, something like that. So it
S3: was essentially designed as a wayfinding solution to assist people
S3: with low vision and those who are blind to be
S3: able to get around.
S2: And how did that come to Yarra Trams attention? What's
S2: the story behind that and how that all kicked off?
S3: So Yarra Trams is operated by the careless Downer business
S3: owner franchise to the Victorian Government and Careless is one
S3: of the world's largest public transport operators and they're headquartered
S3: in France. With that international connection, we became aware of
S3: a trial that they were doing some time ago, about
S3: three years ago, I think it was in Versailles, doing
S3: the wayfinding opportunity at the Versailles. I think it was
S3: a bus and train interchange and we threw our connections
S3: at this, became aware of this and thought, Geez, that
S3: would be something worth investigating and looking into for wayfinding
S3: to assist people getting to and from tram stops. And
S3: so that's how that idea was born.
S2: And in terms of how the Netherlands app would be
S2: working in practice over the tram network, what sort of
S2: routes and stops can people expect to be able to
S2: use the app?
S3: So one really exciting thing, which is how we're implementing
S3: the navigation system as the trial is not so much
S3: wayfinding to get from point A to point B, but
S3: it's part of enhancing the opportunity of getting information for
S3: real time, tram information at tram stops and also on
S3: the trams. So this is not something that's been done
S3: a great deal around the world. So we're one of
S3: the first operators to do that, certainly the first public
S3: transport operator in Australia to do it with nav lines
S3: and for the user it will allow them to be
S3: at a tram stop and with the code at the
S3: tram stop, be able to find out when the next
S3: tram is coming in terms of waiting time where the
S3: next tram is travelling to, and also whether it's a
S3: low floor tram. So that way for the purposes of accessibility,
S3: getting onto a tram, being able to prepare for steps
S3: or just be able to walk across from the platform
S3: or take a step up and so on. We're trialling
S3: it on all of the Route 96 stops. So that's
S3: all the way from East Brunswick down through to Saint Kilda,
S3: and we're trialling it on every E-Class Tram and C
S3: two class trams. So the A-class trams operate not only
S3: the 96 route, but they also operate the 8611 to 58.
S3: And that means that as the trams are travelling around
S3: the network, even though the tram might not be on
S3: a Route 96, it will still have the real time
S3: information available to people on that tram for the route
S3: that they're travelling on and for the Route 96 stops.
S3: If the tram stop is a shared tram stop. So
S3: for instance, the one at Luna Park down near Saint Kilda,
S3: that's a tram stop that's shared with both the Route
S3: 96 and the Route 16. So if someone's waiting at
S3: the tram stop, it will give them the information for
S3: the next arriving tram, even though it might not be
S3: about 96. So it would be the next tram is
S3: about 16 headed to headed to Melbourne University due in
S3: three minutes. It's a low floor tram so that way
S3: the person knows that the next tram is going to
S3: be around 16 and then once that trams departed, the
S3: next tram would be announced after that.
S2: Oh, that's a fantastic thing.
S4: Yeah, it.
S3: Is. And the excitement for this, it really does generate
S3: a lot of interest with people, not only from our
S3: accessibility reference group members and also members of the. Public
S3: that we invited on initial tests, but also people that
S3: we've been talking about, this technology that really beaming smiles
S3: is the best way to describe the response when we're
S3: telling people and sharing about this trial.
S2: Great to hear. Has had a wonderful response. But in
S2: the past, had you had feedback from the Blind and
S2: Low Vision community to Yarra Trams with particular issues around
S2: navigation or perhaps needing more accessible information? And that was
S2: sort of some of the motivation behind getting involved with Netherlands.
S3: We have we've certainly been getting feedback from our passengers
S3: through our regular feedback channel, which can be made through
S3: PTV or through our online access, but we also have
S3: our accessibility reference group. And the reference group is made
S3: up of members from organizations that are advocates or community
S3: groups for people with disability or accessibility needs, such as Aspect,
S3: which is autism Spectrum Australia, also Blind Citizens Australia Vision
S3: Australia certainly guide Dogs Victoria. So all of these organisations,
S3: we have representatives as part of a regular group that
S3: we meet up a few times a year. And also
S3: as I said, the feedback from passengers helps us understand
S3: more the needs and changing requirements of people with disability
S3: or accessibility needs. Plus, we're also guided with the disability
S3: standards for accessible public transport and looking at ways that
S3: we're able to improve the travel experience for people as
S3: they need. So when we started this program right from
S3: the onset, we wanted to make sure that members from
S3: our accessibility reference group were included on that journey. So
S3: we had a lot of discussion around the scope of
S3: what we were thinking of doing for the trial. And
S3: initially we were pretty much on the idea that it
S3: would be helping people get from A to B in
S3: terms of finding their way to a tram stop. And
S3: through the process of our discussions with members from the
S3: Accessibility Reference Group, we were politely challenged in a really
S3: nice way where one of the members said, Look, you
S3: know what, with our mobility and orientation training and so forth,
S3: you know, we're pretty comfortable or confident being able to
S3: get to a tram stop and navigate around a tram stop.
S3: There's no issue there. What our biggest problem is, is
S3: knowing where the approaching tram is travelling to. In that
S3: conversation with that simple statement, we actually flipped on its
S3: head our rollout strategy for what we thought Netherlands would
S3: be useful for. We did initially think that the live
S3: tram tracking information would be helpful, but it was going
S3: to be a little bit further down the implementation timeline.
S3: So we flipped it and we've actually started now with
S3: the real tram tracking, real time information for people waiting
S3: at a tram stop and people when they're on a tram,
S3: that's all based from the interactions that we've had with
S3: with our accessibility reference group team members getting their feedback
S3: on board for this rollout.
S2: That's super important feedback, and I'm really glad to hear
S2: that you've had that positive interaction. Then There's been a
S2: lot of benefits from both sides there. Now as the
S2: app rolls out and people join up and, you know,
S2: participate in the trial, what's the best way for people
S2: to access the Netherlands app? How can they get their
S2: hands on it?
S3: First of all, it's a free service or free app,
S3: so there's no payment required for it. And using the
S3: app is really very simple. There's a lot of features
S3: within the app itself. And as people like most apps,
S3: as people get used to using it, those features become
S3: more noticeable. However, the app can be downloaded from the
S3: Android play store and also from the Apple store. And
S3: there's two different apps available from Navy Lens. The first
S3: one is nav lens, just the word nav lens. And
S3: this is for people who would need the information to
S3: be provided in an audible format. The other app is
S3: called Lens Go, and this is a little bit more
S3: of a multimedia type interaction. It still provides the same information,
S3: but the only thing that it doesn't provide for the
S3: information in real time is that audible ability. So people,
S3: for instance, who might have English as a second language
S3: and they're not confident with it, they can use Navy
S3: lens or Navy lens go because it will use the
S3: default settings of your phone and the language setting to
S3: translate what appears in English to whatever the default language
S3: is on that phone. And it's about 32 different languages
S3: that it can translate it to. But for people with
S3: low vision or who are blind, the Lens app is
S3: the one that you would want to have that audible
S3: information from the tram stops that we've got.
S2: That's a great little feature with the 32 languages there.
S4: That's yeah.
S2: That's, that's an amazing little bonus for the range of
S2: communities around Melbourne with different languages and cultures. So that's
S2: fantastic to hear. That's inclusive in. What a few ways. Now, understand,
S2: the trial has been going for a little while now.
S2: How's the trial been going so far and what sort
S2: of observations have you had?
S3: So with the trial, we actually had it sort of
S3: delayed just by a couple of weeks while we fine
S3: tuned some of the information that was coming back from
S3: the tram tracker system into nearby lanes. So we actually
S3: started the trial. It was launched on the 14th of
S3: August by the Minister of Public Transport, Ben Carroll, and
S3: he installed the commemorative plaque. It stopped nine at the
S3: top of Bourke Street and Spring Street, and that was
S3: really exciting to see that. But the trial itself, with
S3: the real time information, we started that on Monday, so
S3: that was the 21st of August and in the first
S3: three hours and this is without any PR or advertising
S3: or anything like that, in the first three hours of
S3: installing those codes, one of the codes at Stop one,
S3: I think it was down at the corner of Spencer
S3: and Bourke Street in the first three hours. It was
S3: scanned 117 times.
S4: Oh, my God. Yeah. Wow.
S2: That's incredible. That's very exciting to hear. People are just
S2: really getting around it and really embracing the technology.
S3: Absolutely. Because the Navy Lens Code needs the Navy lens app.
S3: If somebody is scanning the code just as they would
S3: scan a regular QR code, nothing's going to happen. So
S3: what we've done is we've placed a QR code alongside
S3: the lens code so that even if the person doesn't
S3: have the lens app installed, it will recognize the QR
S3: code and that will then launch people to a web
S3: page which we have on our website and give them
S3: information about what the product is and also how they
S3: can download the app. And also they can provide feedback
S3: on their experience using nav lens and register for regular
S3: updates on the Netherlands trial itself. So Curiosity is the
S3: mother of all invention in that?
S2: Certainly is. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And how can people sign
S2: up for the Netherlands trial period? What's the best way
S2: for them to do that?
S3: The best thing to do is to get out and
S3: start using the app. And again, it's only on the
S3: Route 96 stops, but certainly if someone's travelling along the
S3: Bourke Street corridor in the city, there will be an
S3: ambulance code on each of those stops. So there's opportunity
S3: to interact with the system there. If they're not a
S3: regular Route 96 traveller and the way to register for
S3: the trial, there's no registration needed to use the system.
S3: But certainly if people want to provide their feedback and
S3: then get those regular updates, you can use the website
S3: which is Yarra Transcom, dot, forward slash navy lens, and
S3: that's spelt in a V lens. Or you can contact
S3: the call centre which is one 800 807 and ask
S3: them to assist you with the registration process. If you're
S3: unable to access the internet or have needs for other means.
S2: Okay, perfect. I've been speaking today with Wayne Speers from
S2: Yarra Trams, all about the brand new Loveland's app, helping
S2: people who are blind or have low vision get around
S2: Melbourne's tram network more safely and accessibly. Wayne, thanks so
S2: much for your time today. It was great to have
S2: a chat with you all about the Netherlands app and
S2: looking forward to hearing about the latest updates in the future.
S3: Absolutely. Thanks so much, Sam.
S2: I'm Sam Culley and you're listening to Talking Vision on
S2: Vision Australia radio associated stations of RPI and the Community
S2: Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Wayne
S2: Speers there. If you missed any part of today's interviews
S2: or you'd love to hear them again, they will also
S2: be available on the podcast app of your choice or
S2: through the Vision Australia Library to listen back any time.
S2: And now for our second interview. Today I catch up
S2: with CEO of Blind Citizens Australia, Sally Andrews. Sally will
S2: be moving on from BCA at the end of September
S2: as she commences full time study and as a valued
S2: guest of talking vision over the years. It's my great
S2: pleasure to catch up with her, to talk about her
S2: last six years in her various roles at BCA. I
S2: began by asking Sally to tell us about the most
S2: treasured memories she's had over that time.
S5: Yeah, there's definitely been a lot happen in the past
S5: six years, but I think the fondest memories that I
S5: have all relate to the times that I have met
S5: people and they've expressed to me things that aren't working
S5: for them or things that are concerning them. And there
S5: have been plenty of occasions where we've been able to
S5: hear those concerns and being able to take them to
S5: the right people and actually start to see some change
S5: in those areas. It certainly hasn't been something that's happened 100%
S5: of the time, but on the odd occasion that it does,
S5: and you can be that person to have a hand
S5: in bringing about some of those big systemic changes. They're
S5: definitely my my favorite memories.
S2: And following on from that. Sally, what achievements have you
S2: been most proud of over that time as CEO of BCA?
S2: If you want to sort of go into specifics about
S2: some big programs or projects or things that BCA has
S2: been able to achieve over that time, what have you
S2: been most proud of there?
S5: I think one of the things that I've enjoyed the
S5: most and that am the most proud of is the
S5: initiatives that we've been able to begin at BCA and
S5: also the initiatives that we've been able to to build
S5: on to make sure that people are getting involved and
S5: staying connected so that people can come along to things
S5: like our BCA conversations, BCA inform our Connect events, our
S5: peer connect groups, our local branches, our special interest branches
S5: and just being able to meet other people who might
S5: share an interest or live close by and being able
S5: to form relationships, getting a little bit more specific. Some
S5: of the things I'm really proud of most recently are
S5: working with our board staff and members to formally endorse
S5: other a statement from the heart and begin work towards
S5: a reconciliation action plan. And I'm also really proud of
S5: some of our biggest systemic advocacy achievements. We've seen a
S5: lot of change in areas like the independent assessments move
S5: in the NDIS being discontinued. We've been working really closely
S5: with the New South Wales and the Tasmanian Electoral Commission
S5: to try and improve access to secret, independent and verifiable voting.
S5: And just earlier this week we met with the Victorian
S5: Education Minister and they announced that due to the huge amount,
S5: the overwhelming amount of advocacy and feedback they'd received, they
S5: were going to discontinue their proposal to make significant changes
S5: to the visiting teacher program. So yeah, they're definitely a
S5: handful of the things that I'm the most proud of.
S2: And you're still around for quite a few weeks from
S2: now and staying around till late September. So it's probably
S2: a bit of a whirlwind to kind of wrap up
S2: everything and tie up a few loose ends before you
S2: move on, which we'll talk about in just a SEQ
S2: because that's a really exciting opportunity in itself. But what
S2: are some immediate plans that BCA has over the next
S2: coming weeks?
S5: September is going to be a really busy month for BCA.
S5: I'm really excited about a lot of the things that
S5: are happening. We've got BCA Connect on Policy coming up
S5: at the end of the month, that'll be Saturday the
S5: 23rd where we're going to be talking about and launching
S5: some of our public policies. The full program for that's
S5: going to be coming out next week and there's still
S5: plenty of time for anyone who's interested to register. We're
S5: also going to be announcing the recipient of the David
S5: Blythe Award and the Certificate of Appreciation. And soon after that,
S5: we're going to be holding our special general meeting where
S5: we are going to ask our members to vote on
S5: proposed changes to our Constitution. It's going to be more
S5: discussions in the tell us what you think about series.
S5: And we're going to be looking at visual descriptions and
S5: how do people feel about visual descriptions at the start
S5: of meetings and events and do they like it when
S5: people get up and talk about their appearance and their
S5: backgrounds And if they do? What are some guidelines that
S5: we could provide people when they give those visual descriptions?
S5: So there's a lot happening in the month of September.
S5: And in amongst all that, yeah, we will be preparing
S5: to hand over my role to a new person. So
S5: it's definitely going to be busy times.
S2: Absolutely busy times. But there's also exciting times, as I
S2: mentioned just briefly, I understand you'll be taking up an
S2: opportunity to dedicate yourself to academic studies. So tell us
S2: a bit about that. What are you looking forward to there?
S5: Yeah. So the whole time I've been at BCA, I
S5: have also been studying part time through the University of
S5: New England and later in August I'll actually be heading
S5: down to Armidale to graduate officially and accept my certificate
S5: there and am commencing an honors program where I'll be
S5: researching employment initiatives both in Australia and overseas and investigating
S5: their outcomes for neurodiverse people. I'm really excited to be
S5: able to dedicate myself to being a full time student.
S5: It's not something I've had the opportunity to do before,
S5: but I have had the opportunity to study full time
S5: and to work part time to support myself. That's come
S5: up for me and I've decided that it's an opportunity
S5: I can't miss. So I'm going to dedicate the next
S5: year to my honours, and then my plans are to
S5: go on to some further study in the area of
S5: HR and look at developing a series of best practice
S5: standards for inclusive recruitment.
S2: So that's been an area that you've had a passion
S2: for for quite a while. What sort of specific aspects
S2: of this area are you really excited about and what
S2: are the sort of trends that you're looking forward to
S2: seeing and learning from and taking away with you to
S2: bring into new roles as they come up?
S5: Yeah, I think at the moment it is a really
S5: exciting time. You know, we're in the early stages of
S5: the new Australian Disability Strategy. We're working on developing our
S5: first national autism strategy. A disability employment service is being
S5: reviewed and there are big changes happening there. So there's
S5: a lot happening when it comes to employment. And a
S5: lot of my career before I came to BCA was
S5: in the employment space working for disability employment service providers,
S5: Job Services Australia, the work for the Dole program, and
S5: I've seen those programs when they work, but I've also
S5: been part of them when they really haven't worked and
S5: they haven't met people's expectations and they haven't been able
S5: to tackle a lot of the systemic barriers and the
S5: issues that really get in the way of people with
S5: disability finding work like the poor community, attitudes that we
S5: know are really the biggest thing that we encounter when
S5: we're looking for jobs. So I'm hoping that over the
S5: coming years I can put together some really practical research
S5: and come up with some tangible and implementable recommendations that
S5: might contribute towards seeing a shift in the very stubborn
S5: unemployment and underemployment rate of people with disability. My focus
S5: area at the moment is on people who are neurodiverse
S5: As a neurodiverse person myself, that's just of particular interest
S5: to me, but I want it to be things that
S5: are applicable to people with disability more broadly, things that
S5: could be implemented by any organisation, so that when we
S5: start to look at the breakdown of employees, we don't
S5: just measure gender and cultural linguistic diversity when we are
S5: looking at diversity, but we start to measure the number
S5: of staff we have with disability as well and really
S5: start to see a change in those employment statistics.
S2: Do you anticipate there will be something of a blindness
S2: and low vision component in the units and the courses
S2: that you'll be studying, or is it more focused in
S2: neurodiversity at this stage?
S5: The study that I'll be doing is very much self
S5: directed research, so it involves quite an extensive literature review
S5: of Australian and international material. A lot of that does
S5: focus on disability as a whole. There often isn't research
S5: that's broken down into specific disability types. There certainly is some,
S5: but a lot of it is more broad. So I
S5: definitely will be investigating all types of disability, multiple disability
S5: and disability and all of it's intersectionality as well.
S2: And Sally, there's always an exciting opportunity in these sort
S2: of fields and this type of study to address some
S2: gaps in the scholarship and the research in terms of
S2: not only the social sciences, but really addressing the business
S2: community and making the findings really relevant to them as well.
S2: So is that something you're looking forward to in that regard?
S5: Yeah, absolutely. My study so far has been in the
S5: social sciences and also in organization management, and I'm really
S5: excited to be able to take the sociological issue and
S5: my perspective on it and incorporate that into something academic
S5: that can be presented to more of the business world
S5: and research that relates more directly to business and organizational
S5: development as a way to really bridge the. Between the
S5: two disciplines.
S2: Well, looking forward to keeping in touch with you and
S2: perhaps catching up in a year or two to find
S2: out some things that you've come across and some real
S2: exciting trends or things to be aware of for people
S2: and raise awareness for the issues that people in the
S2: disabled community face on a daily basis. So definitely looking
S2: forward to keeping in touch and having a chat with
S2: you about that down the track. Now I've been speaking
S2: today with Sally Andrews, current CEO of BCA, but she's
S2: also heading off to take up an academic opportunity in
S2: the next couple of months. Sally, thanks so much for
S2: catching up with me today. All the best for your
S2: future academic studies.
S5: Thanks Sam, and thanks for all of your support over
S5: the past six years. It's always been a pleasure working
S5: with you.
S2: And that's all we have time for today. You've been
S2: listening to Talking Vision. Talking Vision is a production of
S2: Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the
S2: show together. And remember, we love your feedback and comments,
S2: so please do get in touch on Talking vision at
S2: Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all one word at Vision australia.org.
S2: But until next week it's Sam Culley saying bye for now.
S1: You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during
S1: business hours on one 308 4746. That's one 308 4746
S1: or by visiting Vision australia.org that's Vision australia.org.