WEBVTT - Nothings off Limits - Identity, Community and Disclosure (Ep10) 0:00:04.010 --> 0:00:08.240 Nothing's off limits. It's off limits. Bringing together experts and 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:11.539 people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love 0:00:11.539 --> 0:00:15.050 to avoid but absolutely need to talk about made with 0:00:15.050 --> 0:00:19.280 the support of efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.100 and capacity building grants, including grants. 0:00:25.579 --> 0:00:29.820 Hello and welcome to the series where nothing's off limits. 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.989 My name is Polly, and together with my co-host Tess, 0:00:32.990 --> 0:00:36.409 we're continuing to delve into those subjects which might usually 0:00:36.409 --> 0:00:40.100 be considered off limits, discussing them openly and honestly and 0:00:40.100 --> 0:00:42.560 through the specific lens of blindness and no vision. 0:00:42.650 --> 0:00:46.610 And as always, you can download this fabulous podcast via 0:00:46.610 --> 0:00:50.810 the Vision Australia website. Just go to Vision Australia dot 0:00:50.810 --> 0:00:54.140 org and type. Nothing's off limits into the search engine, 0:00:54.140 --> 0:00:56.390 and you'll be directed to our web page where you 0:00:56.390 --> 0:00:59.260 can subscribe to make sure you don't miss any episodes 0:00:59.270 --> 0:01:01.670 or if you'd like, you can tune in by Vision 0:01:01.670 --> 0:01:05.360 Australia Radio and this is our last episode. We're so 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.600 sad and we were so hoping that we could all 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.959 be in the studio together for the final time. But 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.470 unfortunately with lockdown, we're all doing a fabulous recording session 0:01:15.470 --> 0:01:19.370 from home, so we do apologise if the quality of 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.340 the podcast isn't fantastic. We hope you're really going to 0:01:22.340 --> 0:01:23.990 love it because we're really excited about it now. We 0:01:23.990 --> 0:01:24.309 probably 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.020 absolutely. That's right. And yes, I'm talking to you from 0:01:27.020 --> 0:01:31.250 my wardrobe, so I enjoyed the ambient sound effects. And 0:01:31.250 --> 0:01:33.860 so in this episode, we're talking about 0:01:33.860 --> 0:01:35.540 identity, community 0:01:35.540 --> 0:01:38.810 and disclosure, and the way that we identify ourselves can 0:01:38.810 --> 0:01:41.690 impact the way that we're viewed in our communities. And 0:01:41.690 --> 0:01:43.250 for people who are blind or have low 0:01:43.250 --> 0:01:44.690 vision accepting 0:01:44.690 --> 0:01:47.930 that they have a disability and disclosing that disability to 0:01:47.930 --> 0:01:50.480 others can be challenging. So we've lined up a number 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.510 of guests who have lived experience in this area while 0:01:53.510 --> 0:01:56.130 thinking about the way we are viewed by others. 0:01:56.150 --> 0:01:56.780 It's important 0:01:56.780 --> 0:01:58.430 to think about how we view 0:01:58.430 --> 0:01:59.660 ourselves, and so we 0:01:59.660 --> 0:02:03.760 asked you how you would describe yourself using just three words, 0:02:03.770 --> 0:02:05.960 and we got some really interesting answers. 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:15.770 Nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly. Polly, how would 0:02:15.770 --> 0:02:19.280 you describe yourself? In three words cold, dark and handsome. 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:23.990 Kind there and fees are fair and fierce. That's a 0:02:23.990 --> 0:02:24.709 good mix. 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.340 How would I describe myself in three? Would I think 0:02:28.340 --> 0:02:29.510 I'm very calm? 0:02:29.780 --> 0:02:33.080 I'm resourceful and I'm resilient, 0:02:33.530 --> 0:02:34.760 fun, happy, 0:02:35.270 --> 0:02:39.620 cruisy, fun, energetic and sport obsessed. That took me quite 0:02:39.620 --> 0:02:39.920 a while to 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.590 think about, but I think I'd describe myself as loyal, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.400 determined and curious, enthusiastic, 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:47.690 passionate about 0:02:47.690 --> 0:02:53.990 technology. Me, in three words. Radio presenter, twin, windy and 0:02:53.990 --> 0:02:56.150 London are in exile, although I think that comes to 0:02:56.150 --> 0:02:58.010 about seven words. Sorry about that. 0:03:00.330 --> 0:03:03.990 You're listening to a Vision Australia Radio podcast. Nothing's off 0:03:03.990 --> 0:03:05.700 limits with Tess and Polly. 0:03:06.300 --> 0:03:09.750 It's time to welcome our first guest for this episode. 0:03:09.780 --> 0:03:14.700 Now we often find ourselves subject to labelling from others, 0:03:14.700 --> 0:03:17.850 whether it's family, friends, people in the community, so we're 0:03:17.850 --> 0:03:21.780 going to ask our guests to introduce themselves. Jason Weiter 0:03:21.780 --> 0:03:25.200 is possibly a familiar voice to some of our listeners. Jason, 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.350 thank you for joining us. And how would you introduce yourself? 0:03:28.460 --> 0:03:31.370 Hi, Tess. Hopefully, you know what? That's probably how I 0:03:31.380 --> 0:03:34.560 do generally introduce myself to people with a good hello 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:36.630 and a smile on my face. Look, when I think 0:03:36.630 --> 0:03:39.660 about it, it all depends on the city and the 0:03:39.660 --> 0:03:43.590 situation that Tom brought into. I guess in most instances, 0:03:43.740 --> 0:03:47.380 instances I should say I do introduce myself having a 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.830 vision impairment. I will go up to the person is 0:03:49.950 --> 0:03:52.980 usually the person I would say is that I'm not 0:03:52.980 --> 0:03:55.830 actually here drunk. Although I look at it, I am blind. 0:03:56.910 --> 0:03:59.250 So I put a bit of a comical spin on it. 0:03:59.250 --> 0:04:01.110 And that usually gets a conversation going. A bit of 0:04:01.110 --> 0:04:01.940 an icebreaker. 0:04:01.980 --> 0:04:03.780 And I'm sure you get addicted to a lot of 0:04:03.780 --> 0:04:06.270 blind drunk jokes as well along the way. So I 0:04:06.270 --> 0:04:06.390 would 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.710 absolutely look at the clock and you know, the only 0:04:10.710 --> 0:04:12.300 one looked like a fool and you don't even have 0:04:12.300 --> 0:04:15.240 to be drawn to do. No hangovers in the morning. 0:04:16.260 --> 0:04:20.130 Jason, do you identify as having a disability? I mean, 0:04:20.130 --> 0:04:21.659 is that how you would describe it? 0:04:21.690 --> 0:04:24.100 Yeah, I do. Look, I am quite open about it. 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.770 I mean, it is the truth. I think, you know, 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.270 the definition of a disability is something that either as 0:04:30.270 --> 0:04:33.779 a condition that limits one's myriad senses or activities or 0:04:33.779 --> 0:04:36.060 is a disadvantage, it puts someone at a disadvantage. Now 0:04:36.089 --> 0:04:40.530 my eyesight having very low eyesight, that's definitely a loss 0:04:40.529 --> 0:04:43.500 of a major sense. And that does limit, you know, 0:04:44.070 --> 0:04:47.130 what I can do in the community, and it puts 0:04:47.150 --> 0:04:49.859 any disadvantage to people that are fully sighted is the 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.020 true for my eyes. Like I would say, I have 0:04:52.020 --> 0:04:54.960 a disability, and it's just what it is. I mean, 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.419 you should see my playing golf, for instance, in my mind. 0:04:57.470 --> 0:04:59.130 So I'd ask them to point me in the right 0:04:59.130 --> 0:05:01.680 direction of the whole thing, to point me the opposite. 0:05:01.740 --> 0:05:03.360 Just the story. I think that's a disadvantage. 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.160 Or you just need new friends. I'm not sure 0:05:07.180 --> 0:05:10.460 who. Maybe that might be that. But look what role. 0:05:10.500 --> 0:05:13.830 All jokes aside, I don't see a need to hide 0:05:14.100 --> 0:05:16.119 the fact that I have a disability. Yeah. 0:05:16.140 --> 0:05:18.779 Leading on from that, how important is it for you 0:05:18.779 --> 0:05:21.480 that those around you accept that you have a disability? 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.610 So it sounds like you have a really good relationship 0:05:23.610 --> 0:05:26.180 with your friends and that you're already comfortable about it? 0:05:26.190 --> 0:05:28.740 And you know, that's supportive, but also, you know, making 0:05:28.740 --> 0:05:32.340 fun sometimes. So is that acceptance a really important part? 0:05:32.460 --> 0:05:34.830 I'm going to be honest here, and I don't want 0:05:34.830 --> 0:05:37.710 to sound discourteous to others. Say this, you know, it's 0:05:37.710 --> 0:05:40.859 not really that important. It would be nice if everyone 0:05:40.860 --> 0:05:42.750 could accept the fact that, yes, I have a disability, 0:05:42.750 --> 0:05:45.000 this is it, and that Jayson Tatum, who he is. 0:05:45.270 --> 0:05:46.500 I'm not going to let it stop me doing the 0:05:46.500 --> 0:05:47.160 things I want to do. 0:05:47.220 --> 0:05:49.500 So it sounds like actually the really important thing for 0:05:49.500 --> 0:05:52.410 you is your own acceptance of having a disability. 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.680 Definitely not. Say that is probably the most important step, 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.420 a far more important than what others think and how 0:05:58.450 --> 0:06:00.690 they accept be. The world is not going to stop 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:02.910 because I have a idea. So why should I stop 0:06:02.910 --> 0:06:06.179 doing the things that I do? It probably has asked 0:06:06.220 --> 0:06:10.260 different things. For instance, disability, bodybuilding and playing blind tennis. 0:06:10.260 --> 0:06:13.590 Now these are things I would never have got into 0:06:13.589 --> 0:06:15.180 in the past, and these are probably things that I 0:06:15.180 --> 0:06:17.849 wouldn't even have a competitive edge on in the past. 0:06:17.850 --> 0:06:20.460 But now having low eyesight and accepting that and going 0:06:20.460 --> 0:06:22.710 out and taking on these activities has allowed me to 0:06:22.710 --> 0:06:26.130 become good at something. I also think that I accepting 0:06:26.130 --> 0:06:29.250 my disability. It prevents me from doing reckless things from 0:06:29.250 --> 0:06:31.200 time to time, so I don't want to go out 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.500 and take that calf or sun dry blamed on June 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.380 11 vehicles on the road and maybe conditions. That's a 0:06:37.380 --> 0:06:40.380 really interesting point, and it sounds like you really have 0:06:40.380 --> 0:06:42.660 taken ownership of your disability, and that's something 0:06:42.660 --> 0:06:43.950 that you haven't 0:06:43.950 --> 0:06:46.290 struggled with. Or has that been a process for you? 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.310 The moment I knew my eyesight was deteriorating, what was happening, 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:50.990 it was just like, Well, let's move on. You know, 0:06:51.010 --> 0:06:53.360 I think it's something I've grown up with in the past. 0:06:53.370 --> 0:06:56.580 I've had medical conditions, probably since day one, so I've 0:06:56.580 --> 0:06:59.190 had to adapt. I guess I learnt at an early 0:06:59.190 --> 0:07:02.150 age how to adapt to things and then say, Well, look, 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.020 I'm not going to be able to do this. Let's 0:07:04.020 --> 0:07:07.920 find something else more realistic and let's progress. That is 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.080 something that I wanted to do. I had my heart 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.450 set on it. I would make modifications to look at 0:07:12.450 --> 0:07:16.380 ways I could do that and then allowing people to 0:07:16.830 --> 0:07:18.880 see that I can still do it and that's going well, 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:20.640 and we didn't accept me for that anyway. So their 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:22.890 experiences like, well, you guys, and he's what he's doing, 0:07:23.340 --> 0:07:24.150 we accept him for that. 0:07:24.350 --> 0:07:24.840 And how did you 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.870 think more broadly, disability kind of sits within the community? 0:07:28.890 --> 0:07:29.130 Do you 0:07:29.130 --> 0:07:31.110 think that there's a stigma 0:07:31.110 --> 0:07:35.400 around discussing disability, around having a disability in the wider community? 0:07:35.910 --> 0:07:38.280 I think that's sort of one of the things that 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.520 sits on a scale. So you'll have those that will say, Look, 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:45.390 disability is what it is. It's fine, it's part of life. 0:07:45.390 --> 0:07:48.270 Then you'll have the other side to say disability is 0:07:48.450 --> 0:07:51.300 that dirty work and something we don't want to discuss. 0:07:51.300 --> 0:07:53.280 We want to put it aside, and I think there's 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.860 a lot of reasons to come to this. I'm not 0:07:56.070 --> 0:07:58.290 a sociologist or anything like that, so I don't know 0:07:58.380 --> 0:08:00.540 the ins and outs of it all. Well, what I 0:08:00.540 --> 0:08:02.880 see in the community is that more often than not, 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.430 it's not the actual person with a disability, and it's 0:08:05.430 --> 0:08:08.910 not the person who's not closely associated with disability. It's 0:08:08.910 --> 0:08:12.690 the people in the middle, the family members or carers 0:08:12.690 --> 0:08:16.590 or support workers who want to sort of say that, well, 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.400 don't call them disabled and say that any part of 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.030 everyday commuter, they require the same as everybody else and 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.520 that can get you always want to encourage. People who 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.160 have a disability can do things, but at the same time, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.650 it can be harmful because if we put someone in 0:08:31.650 --> 0:08:34.290 a situation where we saying you quite capable to do 0:08:34.290 --> 0:08:36.839 exactly what someone who's got a disability can do and 0:08:37.350 --> 0:08:39.960 they can put their life in danger. So we would 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.750 only be screening that. So we saying that and saying, Okay, well, 0:08:42.990 --> 0:08:47.400 let's just disregard the term disability. It shouldn't exist. If 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.470 we don't, what do we call? Those are people that 0:08:49.470 --> 0:08:51.900 are going to be disadvantaged or they're going to have trouble, 0:08:52.650 --> 0:08:54.640 is an actor and you would say he coaches people 0:08:54.660 --> 0:08:58.199 and he has these terms that goes on to say 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:01.140 that you all have a disability and the Disabilities Act, 0:09:01.530 --> 0:09:04.230 in my eyes, that sort of something that stands out 0:09:04.230 --> 0:09:06.870 to me. I guess it's one of those things that 0:09:07.050 --> 0:09:09.690 reaches out to say, Look, we have a disability that 0:09:09.690 --> 0:09:10.500 doesn't define me. 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.900 I wondered if you had any advice you can share 0:09:13.020 --> 0:09:16.620 about that disclosure component. So whether it's disclosing to people 0:09:16.620 --> 0:09:18.990 that you were just meeting when you're out and about 0:09:18.990 --> 0:09:22.080 or whether it's in a more formal environment like, say, 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.569 starting a new job or even going on a date? 0:09:24.660 --> 0:09:27.120 Have you got any advice about how you can disclose 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:28.290 your disability 0:09:28.290 --> 0:09:30.359 in a way that, as you said, makes you feel 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:31.760 that you have the agency over it? 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:33.929 Take control over that one? I think it comes down 0:09:33.929 --> 0:09:36.150 to a Typekit disability. Just like some of the some 0:09:36.150 --> 0:09:39.390 of the most openly obvious, you don't need to disclose 0:09:39.390 --> 0:09:41.930 and cause a disability yourself to disclose to everybody around you. 0:09:42.070 --> 0:09:45.240 Tarantino for missing a limb or you need to get 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.700 around a white cane. But then when there are those 0:09:47.700 --> 0:09:50.550 that are listening, I suppose it comes down to the 0:09:50.550 --> 0:09:54.240 person how confident they are to disclose that. Do they 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.450 need to disclose it? And if he don't disclose what 0:09:57.500 --> 0:10:00.179 one of the reasons why she disclose it, because in 0:10:00.179 --> 0:10:02.939 my opinion is the truth is always best. I think 0:10:02.940 --> 0:10:06.089 it's always important to disclose it upfront, first and foremost, 0:10:06.090 --> 0:10:07.979 because it gets that side of things at the way. 0:10:08.070 --> 0:10:10.260 The advice I gave is just to be open. Like 0:10:10.260 --> 0:10:12.630 I said, when you introduce it, tell them upfront. First 0:10:12.630 --> 0:10:15.480 and foremost, they will probably respect you all for a 0:10:15.490 --> 0:10:17.790 honest and then you will probably get people. Those I 0:10:17.790 --> 0:10:20.760 will say is a personal issue. They're just not capable 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.000 as someone else at end of the day, that can 0:10:23.010 --> 0:10:24.179 affect people as well. 0:10:24.540 --> 0:10:28.440 Jason, thank you so much. As ever, you were on 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.540 our first program, so it's so lovely to have you 0:10:30.550 --> 0:10:34.620 bookending the series. And I love your advice about, you know, 0:10:34.620 --> 0:10:37.110 maybe if you're confident enough going on the front foot 0:10:37.110 --> 0:10:39.959 and that's your way of kind of taking ownership of 0:10:39.990 --> 0:10:41.750 how you want to represent yourself, 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:42.690 that's as ever 0:10:42.690 --> 0:10:44.100 fascinating and really 0:10:44.100 --> 0:10:44.550 helpful. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.070 Always a pleasure feeling sorry. Thank you so much for 0:10:47.070 --> 0:10:47.459 having me on. 0:10:49.710 --> 0:10:52.920 You're listening to Nothing's Off Limits Where Tess and Polly 0:10:53.100 --> 0:10:56.220 did you know? Vision Australia has produced a range of 0:10:56.220 --> 0:10:59.370 stand up for your rights guides to support you to 0:10:59.370 --> 0:11:03.930 understand and exercise your rights. For more information visit Vision 0:11:03.929 --> 0:11:09.240 Australia dot org or call one 800 eight four seven 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:16.050 four double six. Vision Australia Blindness Low Vision Opportunity. How 0:11:16.050 --> 0:11:18.270 would you like to support the blind community, those with 0:11:18.270 --> 0:11:19.410 low vision or a print 0:11:19.410 --> 0:11:21.030 disability whilst promoting 0:11:21.030 --> 0:11:22.350 your business at the same 0:11:22.350 --> 0:11:23.550 time? You can. 0:11:23.550 --> 0:11:26.940 By sponsoring Vision Australia Radio Hour packages are tailored to 0:11:26.940 --> 0:11:30.090 your needs. Promote your products or services in this area 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:34.290 or right across our network in Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Albury 0:11:34.290 --> 0:11:35.910 and Regional Victoria. 0:11:35.970 --> 0:11:36.990 You'll be surprised 0:11:36.990 --> 0:11:40.500 how affordable community radio is. Tell us how we can 0:11:40.500 --> 0:11:42.110 help you visit via 0:11:42.150 --> 0:11:44.970 radio dot org and click on the sponsorship link for 0:11:44.970 --> 0:11:45.780 more info. 0:11:48.020 --> 0:11:51.800 We now have a panel of two guests, and both 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.640 Courtney McKay and Adelina Holloway will be familiar voices to 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.340 some of our listeners. They're both here to talk about 0:11:58.340 --> 0:12:02.840 their experiences around identity and disclosure. Thank you both so 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.540 much for coming back. How would you two introduce yourselves? 0:12:05.540 --> 0:12:07.130 Maybe starting with you, Courtney. 0:12:07.309 --> 0:12:12.589 Yeah, OK. So in this context, which is semi professional 0:12:12.590 --> 0:12:16.190 and where blindness and low vision is a topic of conversation, 0:12:16.190 --> 0:12:19.880 I might say that I'm a psychologist with lived experience 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.329 of blindness. I've got 15 years of experience working in 0:12:23.330 --> 0:12:26.959 not for profits and local government, and I'm currently managing 0:12:26.990 --> 0:12:30.110 Vision Australia's children and young people team in Queensland. 0:12:30.230 --> 0:12:32.240 Adelina, how would you introduce yourself? 0:12:32.630 --> 0:12:35.480 Usually, my guide dog Tilly does a bit of an 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.050 introduction in that I am visually impaired, so she and 0:12:39.050 --> 0:12:41.270 people usually look at her, look at me, look at her, 0:12:41.270 --> 0:12:43.550 look at me and kind of think, is she or 0:12:43.550 --> 0:12:46.580 isn't she? Because I don't as vision impaired except that 0:12:46.580 --> 0:12:48.939 I have her? I'll get asked a question straight up, 0:12:48.950 --> 0:12:51.500 Is she mine? You disclose that point? Yes, she's mine. 0:12:51.500 --> 0:12:55.820 And yes, I have low vision and I, but I 0:12:55.820 --> 0:12:57.530 still can see. I can see you and I can 0:12:57.530 --> 0:13:00.050 see my surrounds, and that usually relaxes the person. And 0:13:00.050 --> 0:13:02.930 then I will also say that, you know, I'm a 0:13:03.110 --> 0:13:06.230 middle aged mom of a couple of teenagers and fierce 0:13:06.230 --> 0:13:10.910 advocate for different, not less. And and, you know, I'm 0:13:10.910 --> 0:13:14.570 a kind of fairly confident, outspoken middle aged female who's 0:13:14.929 --> 0:13:19.370 become more and more a fierce advocate for people with disability. 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:21.140 So how 0:13:21.140 --> 0:13:22.580 big a part of your 0:13:22.580 --> 0:13:25.429 identity is your disability? 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.340 You know what, it hadn't been until about three years 0:13:28.340 --> 0:13:31.400 ago when I had a of or have had a 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.320 marriage breakdown, and it caused a lot of stress that 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:35.599 caused me a lot of vision loss and quite a 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.390 considerable amount of vision loss, and I really had to 0:13:38.660 --> 0:13:41.600 realise that I couldn't hide from this anymore. It's around 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.460 about the same time I got the dog, so I 0:13:43.460 --> 0:13:46.250 was a real pretender. I would pretend I was sighted, 0:13:46.370 --> 0:13:50.240 not disclosed to many at all and still try and 0:13:50.420 --> 0:13:53.510 be as sighted as I possibly could be. So I 0:13:53.510 --> 0:13:56.780 never identified really until about three years ago. Now, to 0:13:56.780 --> 0:13:59.750 answer your question, I probably identify all of the time. 0:13:59.990 --> 0:14:02.690 Yeah, it's definitely a big part of my life. Being 0:14:02.690 --> 0:14:06.319 blonde sort of dictates how I do everything, how I move, 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.650 how I communicate. It's right at the forefront of how 0:14:09.650 --> 0:14:12.140 I operate. It's not necessarily always at the forefront of 0:14:12.140 --> 0:14:15.230 my mind, though. I just get on and do things. 0:14:15.230 --> 0:14:18.170 But it's definitely the reason why I'm doing those things 0:14:18.170 --> 0:14:20.940 in ways that differ from everyone around me. 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.200 I think that makes a lot of sense. I think 0:14:23.210 --> 0:14:25.690 new disability can really barriers to how much a 0:14:25.700 --> 0:14:27.050 part of your 0:14:27.050 --> 0:14:30.200 identity is, so it's wonderful to get to slightly different 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.170 perspectives and how much is acceptance. 0:14:33.170 --> 0:14:36.050 And this is something we talked about with Jason as well. 0:14:36.260 --> 0:14:40.370 How much is your own acceptance of your disability? A 0:14:40.370 --> 0:14:42.410 key factor? Courtney, how about you? 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.690 Yeah. So we've talked about grief in one of the 0:14:44.690 --> 0:14:51.260 earlier episodes bargaining and denial, natural paths or natural states 0:14:51.260 --> 0:14:54.890 associated with grief. A little bit like Adelina said. You're 0:14:54.890 --> 0:14:58.400 entitled to your denial. You're entitled to try and work 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:03.170 around the disability as you're adjusting to it. But resistance 0:15:03.170 --> 0:15:06.770 definitely burns a lot of energy, and at some point 0:15:06.770 --> 0:15:09.979 I have come to the understanding that that energy is 0:15:09.980 --> 0:15:13.850 better used on working towards what's good and possible for 0:15:13.860 --> 0:15:16.520 me and the people I love. So getting on with 0:15:16.530 --> 0:15:20.390 terms with reality is an important daily practice and I 0:15:20.390 --> 0:15:21.979 try to engage in. If you are 0:15:21.980 --> 0:15:24.260 struggling with that, what are some of the kinds of 0:15:24.260 --> 0:15:26.990 things that you can do to become more accepting of 0:15:26.990 --> 0:15:27.110 your 0:15:27.110 --> 0:15:31.190 disability? Among the most effective things that I've done to 0:15:31.190 --> 0:15:34.850 become more accepting is to rub shoulders with other people 0:15:34.850 --> 0:15:39.380 with disabilities and people that I admire because of their 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:43.700 strong identification as somebody with a disability, their pride in 0:15:43.700 --> 0:15:48.950 who they are and learn from them. That's really accelerated 0:15:48.950 --> 0:15:51.860 some of my growth as a person and my ability 0:15:51.860 --> 0:15:55.430 to be out in the world representing my community in 0:15:55.430 --> 0:15:58.880 a way that, yeah, feels comfortable for me and you, 0:15:58.880 --> 0:15:59.510 Adelina 0:15:59.630 --> 0:16:03.170 me trying to hide and cover up and pretend was 0:16:03.170 --> 0:16:06.560 exhausting and absolutely exhausting, and I just didn't want to 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.080 do it anymore. And I realized when I started to 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.620 work back in Australia and work in the NDIS space, 0:16:12.620 --> 0:16:14.960 and I was privileged to have a role where I 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:16.790 would stand up in front of people and tell them 0:16:16.790 --> 0:16:19.640 how supports could change their lives. And I could do 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.570 that from a place of lived experience. So I realised that, no, 0:16:23.570 --> 0:16:25.040 I didn't want to stand there and tell people what 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.840 I what I could say and what I could do, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:28.700 but what I couldn't do and how I could do 0:16:28.700 --> 0:16:31.510 it with support. So that's when I sort of started 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.190 by put my advocacy have had on really, you know, 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.770 now that I'm almost privileged to be in this position 0:16:36.770 --> 0:16:39.590 now because I can change people's lives so by my 0:16:39.590 --> 0:16:42.290 lived experience and how I can educate them on how 0:16:42.290 --> 0:16:46.340 they can live a full life because often people in such. 0:16:46.940 --> 0:16:50.690 A bad place, and I now use my voice to 0:16:50.750 --> 0:16:54.500 be part way, change that for them and show them that, Hey, 0:16:54.500 --> 0:16:57.290 you know what? It's possible, it's possible to still be 0:16:57.290 --> 0:17:00.110 very empowered, especially as a woman. I speak a lot 0:17:00.110 --> 0:17:02.750 with women to be empowered as a woman, and you 0:17:02.750 --> 0:17:06.620 can still be a beautiful and desirable and well dressed 0:17:06.619 --> 0:17:08.660 and wear those heeled boots in that dress and we 0:17:08.660 --> 0:17:10.670 have a guide dog in your head. You know, that's 0:17:10.670 --> 0:17:14.210 that's my passion, and that's what I try. So that 0:17:14.210 --> 0:17:17.210 has really helped me come into my own as someone 0:17:17.210 --> 0:17:18.740 with vision loss. Absolutely. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.040 I'm just really interested about, I guess, the change that's 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.050 come in around NDIS, where 0:17:24.050 --> 0:17:25.910 you have to talk 0:17:25.910 --> 0:17:29.090 about the things that you're not able to do in 0:17:29.090 --> 0:17:31.220 order for that to be the understanding about what support 0:17:31.220 --> 0:17:31.669 you need. 0:17:31.700 --> 0:17:33.740 How much do you think that's changed 0:17:33.740 --> 0:17:36.679 the dynamic of how you think about yourself? 0:17:36.690 --> 0:17:39.109 We have to now teach people how to speak the 0:17:39.109 --> 0:17:41.720 language of the NDIS, and it's really hard for someone 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:45.800 to sit there and say, for instance, they ridiculously worded 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.260 some of these questions like, you know, there's a self-care section, 0:17:48.260 --> 0:17:51.320 can you dress yourself? And everyone wants to say, yes, 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.150 of course I can dress myself. We have to teach 0:17:53.150 --> 0:17:55.189 them how to say no. Yes, I can do it, 0:17:55.190 --> 0:17:58.100 but I need assistance. In my case, yes, I can 0:17:58.100 --> 0:18:00.560 dress myself, but I need help choosing color. I need 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.080 help putting makeup on in that then comes on top 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.389 of that. I need an occupational therapist. I need perhaps 0:18:05.390 --> 0:18:06.879 someone to show me how to put makeup on. Is 0:18:06.890 --> 0:18:11.090 a vision impaired woman. I need better lighting in my bathroom. 0:18:11.090 --> 0:18:13.369 I need my magnification, so we need to change the 0:18:13.369 --> 0:18:15.560 way people are thinking. So instead of just saying Yes, 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:17.160 I can do this myself, yes, I could do so, 0:18:17.180 --> 0:18:17.600 but 0:18:17.869 --> 0:18:19.730 I need help. That's fascinating. 0:18:19.730 --> 0:18:23.510 Courtney, have you found any, I guess, changes about how 0:18:23.510 --> 0:18:26.000 you feel about yourself or how you present yourself going 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:27.500 through the NDIS process? 0:18:27.619 --> 0:18:32.060 It's pretty common that when you are long term vision 0:18:32.060 --> 0:18:35.270 impaired or you've had a disability of any kind for 0:18:35.270 --> 0:18:38.930 a long time, you've become really good at work arounds 0:18:39.050 --> 0:18:42.860 and everything that you do has been adjusted. You're using 0:18:42.859 --> 0:18:46.010 tools using strategies that the average person on the street 0:18:46.010 --> 0:18:49.640 couldn't even imagine. But because they've become every day to you, 0:18:49.820 --> 0:18:53.540 you don't necessarily know how to articulate them, to break 0:18:53.540 --> 0:18:56.480 them down into tiny little chunks and feed them to 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:00.590 somebody who has no experience of your disability. But that 0:19:00.590 --> 0:19:02.270 is what you have to do. You have to be 0:19:02.270 --> 0:19:05.300 able to articulate all of those work around. So you 0:19:05.300 --> 0:19:08.120 can say, Well, yes, I can do this thing that 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.580 I require x y z in order to be able 0:19:10.580 --> 0:19:13.389 to do that above and beyond what the average person does. 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.800 So for me to lead an ordinary life, I have 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.100 all of these adaptations, some of which will require funding 0:19:19.100 --> 0:19:21.619 for me to be able to continue Adelina. 0:19:21.650 --> 0:19:27.590 You mentioned before the importance of emphasizing being different instead 0:19:27.590 --> 0:19:30.109 of saying, Listen, can you tell us a little bit 0:19:30.109 --> 0:19:31.730 about why that's important? 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.119 Yeah, absolutely. So you know, in a nutshell, it's I 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.750 try to, you know, empower people with that thought that 0:19:38.930 --> 0:19:41.270 you're not less than anyone else because you have a disability. 0:19:41.270 --> 0:19:43.580 You just do things differently. You know, we we can 0:19:43.580 --> 0:19:46.910 do anything that anyone else can within our limits of 0:19:46.940 --> 0:19:50.300 having low vision. But we just as Courtney said, before 0:19:50.300 --> 0:19:53.120 we just do it, we adapt the way we do it. So, 0:19:53.330 --> 0:19:55.520 you know, we considered a computer and do our job, 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.010 but we need assistive technology to do that. You know, 0:19:58.010 --> 0:20:00.650 I can I can walk to work and commute to 0:20:00.650 --> 0:20:03.379 my workplace, but I need my dog beside me to 0:20:03.380 --> 0:20:05.659 help me to do that. It's just those little tweaks 0:20:05.660 --> 0:20:08.119 we have in life to now enable us to to 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.219 do things differently. But we are certainly no less than 0:20:10.220 --> 0:20:10.909 anyone else 0:20:11.150 --> 0:20:15.080 on, Hey, how do you negotiate those boundaries around helping 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.320 people to understand a disability? What's not kind of taking 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.469 on the responsibility of being everyone's teachable moment? I know 0:20:21.470 --> 0:20:22.790 that's something we've kind of touched on 0:20:22.790 --> 0:20:23.270 before, 0:20:23.270 --> 0:20:24.590 but that's a really tough thing to 0:20:24.590 --> 0:20:26.899 do. Yeah. And I thought of running a bit of 0:20:26.900 --> 0:20:30.109 a cost benefit analysis when I bump into people. So 0:20:30.109 --> 0:20:33.200 I'm looking at whether or not they have the capacity 0:20:33.230 --> 0:20:37.129 to learn if they're deeply invested in a particular way 0:20:37.130 --> 0:20:40.700 of seeing things, and that gives them a sense of power. 0:20:40.730 --> 0:20:42.949 Then I know that it's probably not going to be 0:20:42.950 --> 0:20:45.770 productive to push, you know, I come across a lot 0:20:45.770 --> 0:20:48.500 of people that are just not that great at perceiving 0:20:48.500 --> 0:20:53.330 and integrating new information generally. Sometimes it's time limits, so 0:20:53.330 --> 0:20:56.690 it might only be a passing exchange. I will do 0:20:56.690 --> 0:20:59.210 things differently then, as opposed to if we have a 0:20:59.210 --> 0:21:02.359 bit more time to explore, and I'm also thinking about 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:06.260 my emotional reserves. So if I'm already depleted, then it 0:21:06.260 --> 0:21:09.859 might not be worth trying to educate somebody when I'm 0:21:09.859 --> 0:21:12.740 feeling like that versus when I have the energy to 0:21:12.740 --> 0:21:15.190 do it. If it's service, I'll try to work with 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:19.100 a person directly the service provider. But if they're combative 0:21:19.100 --> 0:21:21.140 and I sense they want to dominate me, then I'll 0:21:21.140 --> 0:21:23.690 send the feedback up the line, hopefully to somebody who's 0:21:23.690 --> 0:21:27.950 a little bit more reasonable. So it's about balancing my capacity, 0:21:28.010 --> 0:21:31.130 their capacity and the impact on my community. Oh, that's 0:21:31.220 --> 0:21:34.670 fantastic. A fantastic kind of methodology to use. 0:21:35.060 --> 0:21:39.050 Finally, Adelaide, Matt and Courtney, what are some steps that 0:21:39.050 --> 0:21:41.990 people could take to make it easier to disclose because 0:21:41.990 --> 0:21:45.290 we know that disclosing can be very challenging? Adelina, would 0:21:45.290 --> 0:21:45.609 you like to? 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:50.540 Yeah, look. I think that something I've learned in disclosure 0:21:50.540 --> 0:21:53.720 is using it as an opportunity to educate as well. 0:21:53.900 --> 0:21:57.860 So when I disclosed, though, have done in the past. Sure. 0:21:57.869 --> 0:21:59.660 Except I've got low vision, but I've just explained what 0:21:59.660 --> 0:22:01.810 that what that what that looks like for me. And 0:22:01.820 --> 0:22:03.650 I would let them know what I can see. You know, 0:22:03.650 --> 0:22:05.270 I can see your face, I can see you standing 0:22:05.270 --> 0:22:06.770 in front of me. I can tell you you're wearing 0:22:06.770 --> 0:22:10.010 a dark color, but I probably can't see beyond that. 0:22:10.010 --> 0:22:11.240 You know, just give me a little bit of a 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.790 context of what I can see. And just to give 0:22:13.790 --> 0:22:16.520 them an understanding. And it makes it when I do that, 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.409 it tends to make them a little bit more comfortable. OK, 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:21.560 then I can look her in the eye and I 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.409 know she's going to make eye contact with me to 0:22:24.410 --> 0:22:27.560 some degree. Or it also helps if I'm out and about, 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:31.429 especially in dimly lit situations. If I disclosed before I 0:22:31.430 --> 0:22:34.030 go into the venue to someone who may not doesn't 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.820 know me very well or just met. You know, it's 0:22:36.820 --> 0:22:41.120 it's just having the confidence to be able to explain 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.280 to people what, what, what you can see and how 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:44.780 they can help you. I a bunch of friends. I 0:22:44.780 --> 0:22:46.460 was in Byron Bay once and one of my friends 0:22:46.460 --> 0:22:48.730 pulled me back from not stepping outside of the car. 0:22:48.770 --> 0:22:50.750 This before I had my dog and he screamed to 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:52.189 me and he was very, very mad with me. I've 0:22:52.190 --> 0:22:54.200 known him since university and he said to me, Adalind, 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:55.850 we just need to know what you can and can't see, 0:22:55.850 --> 0:22:58.939 so we know how to support you. So he swore. 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.429 I just said, So, you know, stop being so bloody 0:23:01.430 --> 0:23:03.500 independent and tell us how otherwise you're going to get killed, 0:23:03.530 --> 0:23:07.100 you know? So and that was a that was by 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:09.170 then they kind of did an intervention with me that 0:23:09.170 --> 0:23:12.379 night and sort of said, You know, we we need 0:23:12.380 --> 0:23:16.730 to know you're obviously not the woman you were at university. Clearly, 0:23:16.730 --> 0:23:18.200 you can't see what you used to be able to see. 0:23:18.210 --> 0:23:19.730 So we need to know now so we know how 0:23:19.730 --> 0:23:21.980 to support you. And then it just takes the pressure 0:23:21.980 --> 0:23:23.899 off us as well. And I never looked at it 0:23:23.900 --> 0:23:26.960 like that before. I've had to really think about how 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.240 it affects the other person and how it affects those 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:30.050 around me. 0:23:30.260 --> 0:23:33.560 Yeah, I think when people acquire vision loss for the 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:37.400 first time or they're new to disability generally, that there's 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.820 a real aversion to joining the community and identifying as 0:23:40.820 --> 0:23:44.960 somebody who's one of many with with a disability. But 0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:47.840 one of the benefits, I guess, of being part of 0:23:47.900 --> 0:23:51.410 our community is that you get to review a range 0:23:51.410 --> 0:23:54.530 of approaches, what other people have done before, and you 0:23:54.530 --> 0:23:57.169 can choose what things might look like for you. And 0:23:57.170 --> 0:24:00.560 that includes in relation to how you disclosure disability. I 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:04.280 would recommend that people think about different situations because it 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:07.670 will vary, as we've talked about already today. And I 0:24:07.670 --> 0:24:10.429 also think people need to be gentle with themselves because 0:24:10.430 --> 0:24:13.760 you'll be learning about how to do this well for yourself, 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:15.679 for the rest of your life, and you'll choose and 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:18.230 change your mind over and over and over again. 0:24:18.290 --> 0:24:21.410 That is a wonderful note to end on. Adelina Courtney, 0:24:21.410 --> 0:24:24.290 thank you so much for being here and sharing your 0:24:24.290 --> 0:24:26.450 lived experience with this is just being such 0:24:26.450 --> 0:24:27.620 a privilege chatting to you 0:24:27.770 --> 0:24:30.530 and wonderful to be here and congratulations on a great series. 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:33.050 Guys, thank you for having me. Have a be a 0:24:33.050 --> 0:24:34.880 part of it. I've really enjoyed it and I hope 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:36.740 it helps lots of people out there. I really do. 0:24:36.770 --> 0:24:37.690 Well done, guys. 0:24:37.700 --> 0:24:41.119 Thank you both so much and Jason too. And as ever, 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.420 this is just the start of the conversation about identity, 0:24:44.420 --> 0:24:48.200 community and disclosure. And you can visit the Vision Australia 0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:52.280 website for some useful resources and information, including an article 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:55.190 with some tips about how you can dispose your disability 0:24:55.190 --> 0:24:56.389 to employees. 0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:57.320 We've just finished 0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:03.320 our last episode of Tommy. Can I don't know what 0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:06.830 to think about this, but we could not have done 0:25:06.830 --> 0:25:10.010 it without some very special people. I have the great 0:25:10.010 --> 0:25:15.260 honour of first and foremost, thanking our wonderful collection of guests. We, 0:25:15.260 --> 0:25:17.659 I mean, look, I'm sure that people would love to 0:25:17.660 --> 0:25:19.939 listen to Polly and I just chattering white. We certainly 0:25:19.940 --> 0:25:20.570 do as 0:25:20.580 --> 0:25:23.119 short as sure. 0:25:23.130 --> 0:25:23.659 But yes, 0:25:24.710 --> 0:25:27.340 for those who don't feel like listening to us, just 0:25:27.350 --> 0:25:31.419 having our guests have brought something just fantastic for podcast. 0:25:31.430 --> 0:25:35.660 Thank you to everyone who participated in the box pops 0:25:35.660 --> 0:25:40.490 just added some fantastic color. Thank you to our listeners. 0:25:40.490 --> 0:25:43.040 Our wonderful listeners mean what would be the point of 0:25:43.040 --> 0:25:45.920 creating a podcast that you to listen to us and 0:25:46.100 --> 0:25:49.850 tell us where we're going right or going wrong? And finally, 0:25:50.060 --> 0:25:53.330 I speak on behalf of Polly and myself. It is 0:25:53.450 --> 0:25:56.840 most important, so much so very important to thank our 0:25:56.840 --> 0:26:00.770 wonderful producer, Jace. You're a huge shout out today because 0:26:00.770 --> 0:26:04.790 he has just been a wonderful source of support and expertise. 0:26:04.820 --> 0:26:07.070 He holds us in line cases in line when when 0:26:07.070 --> 0:26:10.680 Polly and I are having too much fun and not easy. 0:26:10.820 --> 0:26:11.830 Not an easy task. 0:26:12.710 --> 0:26:15.770 No, it's really not and really more than anything else 0:26:15.859 --> 0:26:17.520 we could not have done without him. 0:26:17.570 --> 0:26:18.840 So thank you, guys. 0:26:19.250 --> 0:26:21.830 Thanks, guys. It's the lived experience of our guests that 0:26:21.830 --> 0:26:23.960 really pulled it together. I really appreciate everyone's 0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:25.939 efforts, completely stressed 0:26:26.570 --> 0:26:30.620 and remembered. This episode and early episodes of Nothing's Off 0:26:30.619 --> 0:26:34.100 Limits can be downloaded from the Vision Australia website. Just 0:26:34.100 --> 0:26:37.880 go to Vision Australia dot org and type. Nothing's off 0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:40.520 limits into the search engine and you'll find our web 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:43.580 page and you can catch up with all 10 episodes, 0:26:43.580 --> 0:26:45.919 as well as resources that go along with them. And 0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:48.170 we'd love to. Your feedback about the series of what 0:26:48.170 --> 0:26:51.050 you liked, what you didn't like and what you suggest 0:26:51.050 --> 0:26:54.020 should there be a second series? You can reach us 0:26:54.020 --> 0:26:58.310 on nothing's off limits at Vision Australia dot org that's 0:26:58.310 --> 0:27:02.659 nothing's off limits at Vision Australia. Org No apostrophe upon 0:27:02.660 --> 0:27:06.230 apologies there for the grammar experts. But we do hope 0:27:06.230 --> 0:27:08.960 to be with you again soon. Until then, thank you 0:27:08.960 --> 0:27:11.719 so much for joining us for the show where nothing's 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:12.470 off limits. 0:27:17.830 --> 0:27:21.760 That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of 0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:26.860 efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant. 0:27:27.070 --> 0:27:31.240 Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio, 0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:34.030 dot org and access all there is to know about 0:27:34.030 --> 0:27:38.230 our range of client services via our website. Vision Australia 0:27:38.470 --> 0:27:42.520 dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode, 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:46.390 but especially you for listening today. 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