WEBVTT - Talking Tech 14th January 2025 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:12.039 Hello everyone! Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition available from 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:16.160 January the 14th, 2025. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.799 you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.400 stations of the Radio Reading Network or the Community Radio Network. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.520 There is also the podcast. To catch that, all you 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.440 need to do is search for the two words talking tech. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:31.920 And then it can come usually on a Tuesday afternoon 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.680 just after it's been produced. Another option is to ask 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.959 your Siri device or smart speaker to play. Vision Australia 0:00:38.959 --> 0:00:45.760 radio talking tech podcast. Vision Australia radio talking tech podcast. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.520 While Damo McMorrow is on leave, I'm talking to some 0:00:49.519 --> 0:00:51.760 other interesting people. And by the way, if you haven't 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.319 caught up with the conversation I had last week with 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:59.920 Kimberly Kneen from Vision Australia up in Queensland, a participant 0:00:59.920 --> 0:01:03.600 in the graduate program of Vision Australia. You can catch 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:05.460 that by going to the to the usual place where 0:01:05.459 --> 0:01:10.699 there are past editions of the program via radio talking 0:01:10.740 --> 0:01:16.620 tech VA. Radio talking tech. Today I have a member 0:01:16.619 --> 0:01:20.060 of Deimos Access Technology team, one of the many people 0:01:20.060 --> 0:01:24.300 that are spread around the country. It's Kent Walsdorf from 0:01:24.340 --> 0:01:26.220 Geelong in Victoria. Ken, welcome. 0:01:26.459 --> 0:01:27.539 Thank you. Thanks for having me. 0:01:28.380 --> 0:01:32.860 You're an access technology person, talking to lots of people 0:01:32.860 --> 0:01:37.660 around the country, not just in Geelong. Tell us what 0:01:37.660 --> 0:01:38.819 your role takes you to. 0:01:39.380 --> 0:01:42.100 My role has a few hats. I still have the 0:01:42.100 --> 0:01:45.619 privilege of working with clients once every term, school term. 0:01:45.619 --> 0:01:48.219 I get to go over to Tasmania and I visit 0:01:48.220 --> 0:01:51.059 all the public schools there and work with students that 0:01:51.100 --> 0:01:53.580 have low vision or who may be blind and really 0:01:53.580 --> 0:01:56.700 work alongside them to make sure they've got the right equipment, 0:01:56.700 --> 0:02:00.020 and that the teachers are supported and helping that student 0:02:00.020 --> 0:02:02.380 to access the curriculum. So I still have a lot 0:02:02.380 --> 0:02:05.330 of contact time with clients. I guess the second part 0:02:05.370 --> 0:02:09.370 would be. I help to support our Access Technology specialists. 0:02:09.530 --> 0:02:12.090 So those are people that will go out daily and 0:02:12.090 --> 0:02:16.090 visit our client base. And I will train them on 0:02:16.090 --> 0:02:19.050 equipment or support them in assessments or just as a 0:02:19.050 --> 0:02:21.130 sounding board sometimes is all they need. You know, have 0:02:21.130 --> 0:02:23.490 a chat to me about something that they might want 0:02:23.490 --> 0:02:25.610 to talk through, a solution or a potential problem that 0:02:25.610 --> 0:02:28.090 they're coming up against. And I work with the New 0:02:28.090 --> 0:02:30.650 South Wales and Canberra team with that. And then I 0:02:30.650 --> 0:02:32.850 guess the the last hat that I have, which is 0:02:32.850 --> 0:02:36.850 relatively new for our team, is we do consulting. So 0:02:36.850 --> 0:02:41.330 we go into employment services, into businesses where they may 0:02:41.330 --> 0:02:44.970 have a team member that has a vision impairment, or 0:02:45.050 --> 0:02:48.970 they may have wished to employ people with vision impairment. 0:02:49.130 --> 0:02:50.770 And I'll go in there and test their systems with 0:02:50.770 --> 0:02:54.010 things like Jaws and Fusion and Zoomtext and sort of 0:02:54.050 --> 0:02:56.250 write a report and give them some advice on how 0:02:56.250 --> 0:02:59.130 to improve their system. So I'm very privileged that I 0:02:59.130 --> 0:03:01.370 have a role that has a lot of diversity and 0:03:01.370 --> 0:03:02.830 keeps me pretty interested in it. 0:03:03.110 --> 0:03:06.470 I'd like to ask you about the path that took 0:03:06.470 --> 0:03:11.430 you from your original involvement with technology to doing something, 0:03:11.430 --> 0:03:13.590 which I bet you didn't imagine on day one of 0:03:13.590 --> 0:03:16.590 your first job. And that's being involved in access technology. 0:03:17.510 --> 0:03:20.230 Yeah, I've had a pretty interesting career, I guess, in 0:03:20.230 --> 0:03:22.870 the nonprofit sector. That's how I kind of look at it. 0:03:22.910 --> 0:03:25.550 I started out actually as a musician, so from New Zealand, 0:03:25.550 --> 0:03:28.590 originally in Hamilton, and I went to, I guess, what 0:03:28.590 --> 0:03:31.030 you would call the equivalent of TAFE, and I studied 0:03:31.030 --> 0:03:35.150 music and I really got into computers there because that 0:03:35.150 --> 0:03:38.310 was when Apple computers were sort of really coming into 0:03:38.310 --> 0:03:42.030 the mainstream. They were certainly leading the charge with media. 0:03:42.030 --> 0:03:44.830 And our music department at the time had a whole 0:03:44.830 --> 0:03:47.310 bunch of Apple computers. So from there I gained a 0:03:47.310 --> 0:03:51.030 real interest, I guess. Um, and being a studio engineer, 0:03:51.030 --> 0:03:54.390 I learned about signal flow. So how to connect leads 0:03:54.390 --> 0:03:56.710 and all kinds of bits and wonderful pieces of equipment 0:03:56.710 --> 0:04:00.630 and technology. So I was really fascinated about that area. 0:04:00.630 --> 0:04:03.140 And I guess fast forward after my degree, I came 0:04:03.140 --> 0:04:06.620 across to Melbourne and I landed a job with The 0:04:06.620 --> 0:04:10.300 Wiggles characters, so I was a production manager there. And 0:04:10.300 --> 0:04:12.940 part of that role was to sort of set up, 0:04:12.980 --> 0:04:14.860 you know, the stages for The Wiggles characters to come 0:04:14.860 --> 0:04:16.620 on and do their shows and shopping malls and things 0:04:16.620 --> 0:04:19.660 like that. So I wasn't quite involved yet in nonprofit, 0:04:19.660 --> 0:04:21.700 but my manager at the time, he brought me across 0:04:21.700 --> 0:04:24.380 because he left that job and I went across into 0:04:24.420 --> 0:04:27.820 Starlight Children's Foundation, where that was really my first taste 0:04:27.820 --> 0:04:31.020 of working with children with disability, working with children with 0:04:31.020 --> 0:04:35.180 severe sickness illness. And also, I was part of setting 0:04:35.180 --> 0:04:37.820 up some pretty complex technology systems there at the time. 0:04:38.500 --> 0:04:41.740 So it's been a wonderful change to come to Vision Australia. 0:04:42.140 --> 0:04:44.500 That was eight years ago now, um, where we moved 0:04:44.500 --> 0:04:47.820 from Melbourne to Geelong and that whole build up over 0:04:47.820 --> 0:04:50.780 my degree, over working with Starlight Children's Foundation really set 0:04:50.820 --> 0:04:53.100 me up well to be able to work as a 0:04:53.100 --> 0:04:56.180 technology specialist, combining two things that I love, which is 0:04:56.180 --> 0:05:00.200 technology and, you know, training and talking to people. So, um, yeah, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:01.480 very lucky to be in this role. 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.719 On talking tech this week I'm speaking with Kent Walsdorf, 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:09.520 who's an Access technology lead with Vision Australia based in Geelong. 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:14.160 Let's talk more about your roles, particularly, I think the 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.320 education one, as it's around the time of the year 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.920 where people are getting organised for another year of learning. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.200 Absolutely. So if we sort of talk about people going 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.480 into study and this can be a range of different people, 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.880 you know, from, you know, children in primary school, high school, college, 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:32.400 if you're in Tasmania, right into university, what we sort 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.200 of talk about when we go to work with students 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.080 is that there's a whole bunch of people involved in 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.400 that conversation. So it's the student. Sometimes it's the parents 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.480 are involved in that conversation. If they're young, we will 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.920 talk with the teachers, sometimes even with the universities. And 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.440 really what we try and do is understand some of 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.920 the challenges that those people may be facing, and that 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.360 could be access to the curriculum, it could be access 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.460 around the school. And we, you know, provide solutions. So 0:05:59.860 --> 0:06:02.260 I think one of the big takeaways that I've come 0:06:02.260 --> 0:06:04.780 away with over the years is that there's not one 0:06:04.780 --> 0:06:07.140 tool that that sort of works for everything. It's really 0:06:07.140 --> 0:06:09.940 about building a toolkit. And we talk about that a 0:06:09.940 --> 0:06:12.779 lot in our assessments, is that you might have one 0:06:12.780 --> 0:06:15.540 particular piece of equipment that might do one thing really well, 0:06:16.020 --> 0:06:18.340 but you need something else along the way as well. 0:06:18.460 --> 0:06:20.900 And uh, nowadays, I think in a lot of the 0:06:20.900 --> 0:06:23.380 schools that I visit, you know, iPads are a really 0:06:23.540 --> 0:06:26.940 popular product because of the, I guess, their ease of use, 0:06:26.940 --> 0:06:29.740 they very rarely break down. But also the built in 0:06:29.740 --> 0:06:32.020 accessibility is pretty important for for some of the students 0:06:32.020 --> 0:06:34.940 that I work with. So yeah, gearing up for school, 0:06:34.940 --> 0:06:39.380 I think it's really about understanding the curriculum, understanding who's teaching, 0:06:39.500 --> 0:06:42.700 and really working with both educators, parents and students to 0:06:42.700 --> 0:06:46.020 make sure that they do have the right tools because 0:06:46.020 --> 0:06:48.180 I have seen it when it doesn't work. I have 0:06:48.180 --> 0:06:50.500 seen it when a student doesn't have the right piece 0:06:50.500 --> 0:06:53.100 of equipment that they need, and it really sets them 0:06:53.100 --> 0:06:56.380 up to a challenging time to get through their course 0:06:56.380 --> 0:06:59.650 or get through the the year. So I find it 0:06:59.650 --> 0:07:02.130 really important to make sure that, you know, conversations are 0:07:02.130 --> 0:07:04.610 had with the right people, that the technology is trialled 0:07:04.850 --> 0:07:07.089 and that they do get the right piece of equipment 0:07:07.090 --> 0:07:09.570 or multiple pieces of equipment to make sure they are 0:07:09.570 --> 0:07:10.890 successful in their courses. 0:07:11.490 --> 0:07:15.090 Tell us about your work consulting with the corporate world. 0:07:15.370 --> 0:07:18.370 The work that I've done previously is that we might 0:07:18.370 --> 0:07:21.170 have someone who may have a vision impairment that's been 0:07:21.450 --> 0:07:25.530 deteriorating over a short period of time. And really, what's 0:07:25.530 --> 0:07:28.610 happening there is that the employer is keen on making 0:07:28.610 --> 0:07:31.130 sure that the right adjustments are made for that employee. 0:07:31.650 --> 0:07:33.610 So I'll go in there and I'll fire up jaws. 0:07:33.650 --> 0:07:35.410 And if they're a screen reader user, I would start 0:07:35.450 --> 0:07:39.730 testing that system. Really, my work involved with companies and 0:07:39.730 --> 0:07:42.010 businesses is that I will actually go and fire up 0:07:42.010 --> 0:07:44.210 jaws on their computer and actually test their system from 0:07:44.210 --> 0:07:47.170 start to finish, and it can be quite thorough. We 0:07:47.170 --> 0:07:50.490 we really look at the entire workflow of what a 0:07:50.490 --> 0:07:52.930 person might have to go through on a daily basis, 0:07:52.930 --> 0:07:55.690 and from that we'll present a pretty in depth report 0:07:55.690 --> 0:07:59.390 about that again. There might be things that they haven't 0:07:59.390 --> 0:08:01.190 thought of. And again, it could be things as simple as, 0:08:01.230 --> 0:08:03.190 you know, equipment that they need to be able to 0:08:03.190 --> 0:08:05.790 access their work. It's not necessarily always a change in 0:08:05.790 --> 0:08:07.950 their system or change in their software. It can be 0:08:07.950 --> 0:08:11.270 other things as well. So that one is something that's 0:08:11.270 --> 0:08:15.310 really interesting because every workplace is different. Every person that's 0:08:15.310 --> 0:08:18.510 trying to access their platform or their work has a 0:08:18.510 --> 0:08:21.150 different set of challenges. So I quite enjoy that part 0:08:21.150 --> 0:08:23.030 of the job because, um, yeah, there's a lot of 0:08:23.030 --> 0:08:25.230 things to think about, and I love it when we 0:08:25.230 --> 0:08:28.430 do actually make change and help people to, you know, 0:08:28.430 --> 0:08:29.990 get on with their work, because often that's just what 0:08:29.990 --> 0:08:31.310 they want to be able to do. 0:08:31.350 --> 0:08:34.950 Um, tell me about what for you must have been 0:08:34.949 --> 0:08:38.870 a real effort to go from being a person who 0:08:38.910 --> 0:08:43.550 uses technology in what we might describe as the usual 0:08:43.550 --> 0:08:47.550 or the majority way, and putting yourself into the headspace 0:08:47.550 --> 0:08:51.270 of somebody who's not looking at the screen or not 0:08:51.270 --> 0:08:53.189 looking at it very much. They might be a low 0:08:53.189 --> 0:08:55.300 vision person. That must have been quite a quite a 0:08:55.300 --> 0:08:56.259 transition for you. 0:08:56.660 --> 0:08:59.979 It was. Um, so I don't have a vision impairment myself. 0:09:00.140 --> 0:09:02.460 I think when I started the role, there were certain 0:09:02.500 --> 0:09:06.420 things that I could do that were not. Not easy, 0:09:06.420 --> 0:09:09.219 but easier than being able to fire up a screen reader. 0:09:09.300 --> 0:09:11.219 So if it was something to do with, you know, 0:09:11.219 --> 0:09:14.020 working a magnifier or if it was something to do 0:09:14.020 --> 0:09:17.139 with working, you know, some of the other tools that 0:09:17.140 --> 0:09:20.059 we have, the wearable technology, I could understand that and 0:09:20.059 --> 0:09:23.940 I could teach that quite easily. When you throw yourself 0:09:23.939 --> 0:09:26.380 into the world of screen reading, that can be quite 0:09:26.380 --> 0:09:28.780 challenging for someone that's visual because you rely on your 0:09:28.780 --> 0:09:32.099 vision so much. And I actually found that quite difficult 0:09:32.099 --> 0:09:35.059 to start with, and it got to a point where 0:09:35.059 --> 0:09:37.379 I would go out and I would be working with 0:09:37.380 --> 0:09:39.860 some Jaws power user, you know, someone that's been using 0:09:39.859 --> 0:09:43.579 it for years. And I found myself feeling that I 0:09:43.579 --> 0:09:46.820 wasn't able to really hone my skills and to help 0:09:46.819 --> 0:09:49.740 that person. Basically, what I was still doing is relying 0:09:49.740 --> 0:09:52.739 on my vision at the time. So what I had 0:09:52.740 --> 0:09:56.160 to learn was to first of all use and learn 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.959 all the keyboard shortcuts. So Jaws, for example. And I 0:09:58.959 --> 0:10:01.000 did that by using them daily. So I would go 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.439 into work and I would be firing up outlook, firing 0:10:03.439 --> 0:10:06.280 up my computer, and just trying to remember the amount 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.599 of keyboard shortcuts that I needed to deliver that. And 0:10:09.599 --> 0:10:12.319 the second part of that was I would use jaws daily. 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.040 It's something that I've been working pretty hard at over 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.679 the last 3 or 4 years, and I actually use 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.199 it now for things like proofreading. I'll listen to my 0:10:20.199 --> 0:10:23.959 own documentation and my own reports with audio, because I 0:10:23.959 --> 0:10:25.760 find I actually pick up a lot more things with 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.319 audio than what I do visually, in particular grammar and 0:10:29.319 --> 0:10:33.079 spelling mistakes. So for me, I found that actually using 0:10:33.079 --> 0:10:36.359 these tools daily gave me a lot more comfort in 0:10:36.359 --> 0:10:40.000 teaching the technology. But also every now and then I'll 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.040 turn off the screen, and that really puts you into 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.880 a position of you've only got your audio to rely on, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.720 you can only listen to jaws, and all of a 0:10:48.719 --> 0:10:51.760 sudden you're in the same position as the clients that 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:53.500 you're trying to service. And service. And I find that 0:10:53.500 --> 0:10:56.860 that is really, really important is to understand exactly what 0:10:56.859 --> 0:10:59.979 they're going through and then tailor how you present the 0:10:59.979 --> 0:11:01.819 information or how you train accordingly. 0:11:02.059 --> 0:11:04.780 As a person who's been blind all their life. And 0:11:04.780 --> 0:11:09.220 so I haven't had to go through the transition that 0:11:09.260 --> 0:11:12.859 most users have to go through from the visual world 0:11:12.979 --> 0:11:16.620 to the speech or braille world, even as a low 0:11:16.620 --> 0:11:21.100 vision or blind person. What do you talk to people about? 0:11:21.219 --> 0:11:24.579 Who you're working with, who are going through that transition? 0:11:24.579 --> 0:11:26.579 And I reckon we'd be wanting to hold on to 0:11:26.620 --> 0:11:28.780 try and look at the screen as much as possible 0:11:28.780 --> 0:11:32.939 and would be really struggling sometimes to read text, etc.. 0:11:32.979 --> 0:11:35.699 There can be quite challenging and rightly so for a 0:11:35.699 --> 0:11:39.060 lot of people. And I think what I tend to do, 0:11:39.099 --> 0:11:43.020 especially in schools where I see students, that they actually 0:11:43.020 --> 0:11:46.900 become at a disadvantage, relying on their vision as opposed 0:11:46.900 --> 0:11:50.459 to transitioning across into speech. And I think it's something 0:11:50.459 --> 0:11:53.249 that you have to tackle with sensitivity, and I think 0:11:53.290 --> 0:11:55.089 you have to sort of coach them through and you 0:11:55.089 --> 0:11:59.210 have to allow them to understand potentially the benefit of 0:11:59.209 --> 0:12:02.010 using speech more as opposed to their vision. So it's 0:12:02.010 --> 0:12:04.050 a very gentle approach. At least that's the way that 0:12:04.050 --> 0:12:06.689 I do it. Just recently, actually, I was working with 0:12:06.689 --> 0:12:09.849 a student and they were reading a piece of text 0:12:09.849 --> 0:12:11.650 and I said, okay, we're going to just get you 0:12:11.650 --> 0:12:13.449 to read that text, see how you go. And there 0:12:13.449 --> 0:12:17.410 was just a paragraph. And then after that I got 0:12:17.410 --> 0:12:19.210 them to listen to it. And I said, well, how 0:12:19.209 --> 0:12:21.290 did you find your comprehension with that text? Did you 0:12:21.290 --> 0:12:23.770 find it easier reading, or did you find it easier 0:12:23.770 --> 0:12:25.929 listening to it? And they said, well, you know, actually 0:12:26.050 --> 0:12:27.890 just listening to it, I can probably give you more 0:12:27.890 --> 0:12:30.850 information about what I read. And I said, not only that, 0:12:31.370 --> 0:12:33.530 what did you think of the speed? Like how quickly 0:12:33.530 --> 0:12:35.170 were you able to read that information. And they said, well, 0:12:35.209 --> 0:12:38.969 much quicker with audio. So something like that can help 0:12:38.969 --> 0:12:42.449 people to understand that you may still use your vision 0:12:42.569 --> 0:12:44.929 in a certain way, and that's absolutely fine. Each person 0:12:44.929 --> 0:12:48.290 is completely different. But if you look into the audio 0:12:48.290 --> 0:12:50.490 side of things where you need it, especially people with 0:12:50.670 --> 0:12:54.349 severe vision loss. You might find that it becomes easier 0:12:54.349 --> 0:12:57.710 to get through information quickly. Not only that, I've seen 0:12:57.949 --> 0:13:01.309 and heard of experiences where people that sometimes move from 0:13:01.309 --> 0:13:04.670 their vision to audio, other things happen, like they reduce 0:13:04.670 --> 0:13:06.229 the amount of headaches they might have. At the end 0:13:06.229 --> 0:13:08.510 of the day, they rely on their vision so much 0:13:08.589 --> 0:13:11.749 that end of day headaches sort of come through. And, 0:13:11.790 --> 0:13:13.949 you know, all the glare in the classroom and things 0:13:13.949 --> 0:13:14.550 like that. 0:13:14.630 --> 0:13:17.230 And once, once they're used to the audio less fatigue. 0:13:17.589 --> 0:13:20.150 Yeah, absolutely. So that's that's actually quite a common thing 0:13:20.150 --> 0:13:22.829 that I've seen a lot in schools is that, um, 0:13:22.829 --> 0:13:26.069 when they suffer from fatigue and they start to use audio, 0:13:26.109 --> 0:13:28.510 they can continue with the learning and being able to 0:13:28.510 --> 0:13:32.309 get through content. So that transition very different for a 0:13:32.309 --> 0:13:34.189 lot of people, but it's an important one to help 0:13:34.189 --> 0:13:37.750 people understand the benefits of using speech, if that's if 0:13:37.750 --> 0:13:39.189 that's required for them. 0:13:39.229 --> 0:13:42.709 Yeah. Very interesting. It's been great chatting with you today, Kent, 0:13:42.709 --> 0:13:44.950 and I'm sure people have found it interesting to learn 0:13:44.949 --> 0:13:48.230 what goes into your thinking behind the scenes of just the. Yes, 0:13:48.229 --> 0:13:51.939 I talk to these people and I installed this equipment, etc. 0:13:52.059 --> 0:13:54.540 it's a lot more to it than that. In the 0:13:54.540 --> 0:13:57.820 access technology world. So good on you and hope to 0:13:57.819 --> 0:13:59.819 have you back on talking tech again sometime. 0:13:59.979 --> 0:14:01.339 Thanks, Steven. Appreciate the chat. 0:14:01.459 --> 0:14:05.500 I've been speaking with Kent Walsdorf, who's an Access Technology 0:14:05.500 --> 0:14:09.059 lead with Vision Australia based in Geelong. He's been telling 0:14:09.059 --> 0:14:13.579 us about his role with Vision Australia. Just before we go, 0:14:13.620 --> 0:14:17.500 a reminder you can find details of this program and 0:14:17.500 --> 0:14:23.300 previous editions by going to VA radio, Talking Tech, VA radio, 0:14:24.780 --> 0:14:29.820 Talking Tech. And you can write to the program at 0:14:29.820 --> 0:14:34.620 Vision Australia. Is the naughty boys still looking at his emails? 0:14:35.060 --> 0:14:40.740 Damo McMorrow at Vision Australia. Org. This has been talking tech. 0:14:40.780 --> 0:14:43.700 I'm Stephen Jolley. Stay safe. We'll talk more tech next week. 0:14:43.740 --> 0:14:44.180 See you.