S1: Hello everyone! Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition available from
S1: January the 14th, 2025. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have
S1: you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated
S1: stations of the Radio Reading Network or the Community Radio Network.
S1: There is also the podcast. To catch that, all you
S1: need to do is search for the two words talking tech.
S1: And then it can come usually on a Tuesday afternoon
S1: just after it's been produced. Another option is to ask
S1: your Siri device or smart speaker to play. Vision Australia
S1: radio talking tech podcast. Vision Australia radio talking tech podcast.
S1: While Damo McMorrow is on leave, I'm talking to some
S1: other interesting people. And by the way, if you haven't
S1: caught up with the conversation I had last week with
S1: Kimberly Kneen from Vision Australia up in Queensland, a participant
S1: in the graduate program of Vision Australia. You can catch
S1: that by going to the to the usual place where
S1: there are past editions of the program via radio talking
S1: tech VA. Radio talking tech. Today I have a member
S1: of Deimos Access Technology team, one of the many people
S1: that are spread around the country. It's Kent Walsdorf from
S1: Geelong in Victoria. Ken, welcome.
S2: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
S1: You're an access technology person, talking to lots of people
S1: around the country, not just in Geelong. Tell us what
S1: your role takes you to.
S2: My role has a few hats. I still have the
S2: privilege of working with clients once every term, school term.
S2: I get to go over to Tasmania and I visit
S2: all the public schools there and work with students that
S2: have low vision or who may be blind and really
S2: work alongside them to make sure they've got the right equipment,
S2: and that the teachers are supported and helping that student
S2: to access the curriculum. So I still have a lot
S2: of contact time with clients. I guess the second part
S2: would be. I help to support our Access Technology specialists.
S2: So those are people that will go out daily and
S2: visit our client base. And I will train them on
S2: equipment or support them in assessments or just as a
S2: sounding board sometimes is all they need. You know, have
S2: a chat to me about something that they might want
S2: to talk through, a solution or a potential problem that
S2: they're coming up against. And I work with the New
S2: South Wales and Canberra team with that. And then I
S2: guess the the last hat that I have, which is
S2: relatively new for our team, is we do consulting. So
S2: we go into employment services, into businesses where they may
S2: have a team member that has a vision impairment, or
S2: they may have wished to employ people with vision impairment.
S2: And I'll go in there and test their systems with
S2: things like Jaws and Fusion and Zoomtext and sort of
S2: write a report and give them some advice on how
S2: to improve their system. So I'm very privileged that I
S2: have a role that has a lot of diversity and
S2: keeps me pretty interested in it.
S1: I'd like to ask you about the path that took
S1: you from your original involvement with technology to doing something,
S1: which I bet you didn't imagine on day one of
S1: your first job. And that's being involved in access technology.
S2: Yeah, I've had a pretty interesting career, I guess, in
S2: the nonprofit sector. That's how I kind of look at it.
S2: I started out actually as a musician, so from New Zealand,
S2: originally in Hamilton, and I went to, I guess, what
S2: you would call the equivalent of TAFE, and I studied
S2: music and I really got into computers there because that
S2: was when Apple computers were sort of really coming into
S2: the mainstream. They were certainly leading the charge with media.
S2: And our music department at the time had a whole
S2: bunch of Apple computers. So from there I gained a
S2: real interest, I guess. Um, and being a studio engineer,
S2: I learned about signal flow. So how to connect leads
S2: and all kinds of bits and wonderful pieces of equipment
S2: and technology. So I was really fascinated about that area.
S2: And I guess fast forward after my degree, I came
S2: across to Melbourne and I landed a job with The
S2: Wiggles characters, so I was a production manager there. And
S2: part of that role was to sort of set up,
S2: you know, the stages for The Wiggles characters to come
S2: on and do their shows and shopping malls and things
S2: like that. So I wasn't quite involved yet in nonprofit,
S2: but my manager at the time, he brought me across
S2: because he left that job and I went across into
S2: Starlight Children's Foundation, where that was really my first taste
S2: of working with children with disability, working with children with
S2: severe sickness illness. And also, I was part of setting
S2: up some pretty complex technology systems there at the time.
S2: So it's been a wonderful change to come to Vision Australia.
S2: That was eight years ago now, um, where we moved
S2: from Melbourne to Geelong and that whole build up over
S2: my degree, over working with Starlight Children's Foundation really set
S2: me up well to be able to work as a
S2: technology specialist, combining two things that I love, which is
S2: technology and, you know, training and talking to people. So, um, yeah,
S2: very lucky to be in this role.
S1: On talking tech this week I'm speaking with Kent Walsdorf,
S1: who's an Access technology lead with Vision Australia based in Geelong.
S1: Let's talk more about your roles, particularly, I think the
S1: education one, as it's around the time of the year
S1: where people are getting organised for another year of learning.
S2: Absolutely. So if we sort of talk about people going
S2: into study and this can be a range of different people,
S2: you know, from, you know, children in primary school, high school, college,
S2: if you're in Tasmania, right into university, what we sort
S2: of talk about when we go to work with students
S2: is that there's a whole bunch of people involved in
S2: that conversation. So it's the student. Sometimes it's the parents
S2: are involved in that conversation. If they're young, we will
S2: talk with the teachers, sometimes even with the universities. And
S2: really what we try and do is understand some of
S2: the challenges that those people may be facing, and that
S2: could be access to the curriculum, it could be access
S2: around the school. And we, you know, provide solutions. So
S2: I think one of the big takeaways that I've come
S2: away with over the years is that there's not one
S2: tool that that sort of works for everything. It's really
S2: about building a toolkit. And we talk about that a
S2: lot in our assessments, is that you might have one
S2: particular piece of equipment that might do one thing really well,
S2: but you need something else along the way as well.
S2: And uh, nowadays, I think in a lot of the
S2: schools that I visit, you know, iPads are a really
S2: popular product because of the, I guess, their ease of use,
S2: they very rarely break down. But also the built in
S2: accessibility is pretty important for for some of the students
S2: that I work with. So yeah, gearing up for school,
S2: I think it's really about understanding the curriculum, understanding who's teaching,
S2: and really working with both educators, parents and students to
S2: make sure that they do have the right tools because
S2: I have seen it when it doesn't work. I have
S2: seen it when a student doesn't have the right piece
S2: of equipment that they need, and it really sets them
S2: up to a challenging time to get through their course
S2: or get through the the year. So I find it
S2: really important to make sure that, you know, conversations are
S2: had with the right people, that the technology is trialled
S2: and that they do get the right piece of equipment
S2: or multiple pieces of equipment to make sure they are
S2: successful in their courses.
S1: Tell us about your work consulting with the corporate world.
S2: The work that I've done previously is that we might
S2: have someone who may have a vision impairment that's been
S2: deteriorating over a short period of time. And really, what's
S2: happening there is that the employer is keen on making
S2: sure that the right adjustments are made for that employee.
S2: So I'll go in there and I'll fire up jaws.
S2: And if they're a screen reader user, I would start
S2: testing that system. Really, my work involved with companies and
S2: businesses is that I will actually go and fire up
S2: jaws on their computer and actually test their system from
S2: start to finish, and it can be quite thorough. We
S2: we really look at the entire workflow of what a
S2: person might have to go through on a daily basis,
S2: and from that we'll present a pretty in depth report
S2: about that again. There might be things that they haven't
S2: thought of. And again, it could be things as simple as,
S2: you know, equipment that they need to be able to
S2: access their work. It's not necessarily always a change in
S2: their system or change in their software. It can be
S2: other things as well. So that one is something that's
S2: really interesting because every workplace is different. Every person that's
S2: trying to access their platform or their work has a
S2: different set of challenges. So I quite enjoy that part
S2: of the job because, um, yeah, there's a lot of
S2: things to think about, and I love it when we
S2: do actually make change and help people to, you know,
S2: get on with their work, because often that's just what
S2: they want to be able to do.
S1: Um, tell me about what for you must have been
S1: a real effort to go from being a person who
S1: uses technology in what we might describe as the usual
S1: or the majority way, and putting yourself into the headspace
S1: of somebody who's not looking at the screen or not
S1: looking at it very much. They might be a low
S1: vision person. That must have been quite a quite a
S1: transition for you.
S2: It was. Um, so I don't have a vision impairment myself.
S2: I think when I started the role, there were certain
S2: things that I could do that were not. Not easy,
S2: but easier than being able to fire up a screen reader.
S2: So if it was something to do with, you know,
S2: working a magnifier or if it was something to do
S2: with working, you know, some of the other tools that
S2: we have, the wearable technology, I could understand that and
S2: I could teach that quite easily. When you throw yourself
S2: into the world of screen reading, that can be quite
S2: challenging for someone that's visual because you rely on your
S2: vision so much. And I actually found that quite difficult
S2: to start with, and it got to a point where
S2: I would go out and I would be working with
S2: some Jaws power user, you know, someone that's been using
S2: it for years. And I found myself feeling that I
S2: wasn't able to really hone my skills and to help
S2: that person. Basically, what I was still doing is relying
S2: on my vision at the time. So what I had
S2: to learn was to first of all use and learn
S2: all the keyboard shortcuts. So Jaws, for example. And I
S2: did that by using them daily. So I would go
S2: into work and I would be firing up outlook, firing
S2: up my computer, and just trying to remember the amount
S2: of keyboard shortcuts that I needed to deliver that. And
S2: the second part of that was I would use jaws daily.
S2: It's something that I've been working pretty hard at over
S2: the last 3 or 4 years, and I actually use
S2: it now for things like proofreading. I'll listen to my
S2: own documentation and my own reports with audio, because I
S2: find I actually pick up a lot more things with
S2: audio than what I do visually, in particular grammar and
S2: spelling mistakes. So for me, I found that actually using
S2: these tools daily gave me a lot more comfort in
S2: teaching the technology. But also every now and then I'll
S2: turn off the screen, and that really puts you into
S2: a position of you've only got your audio to rely on,
S2: you can only listen to jaws, and all of a
S2: sudden you're in the same position as the clients that
S2: you're trying to service. And service. And I find that
S2: that is really, really important is to understand exactly what
S2: they're going through and then tailor how you present the
S2: information or how you train accordingly.
S1: As a person who's been blind all their life. And
S1: so I haven't had to go through the transition that
S1: most users have to go through from the visual world
S1: to the speech or braille world, even as a low
S1: vision or blind person. What do you talk to people about?
S1: Who you're working with, who are going through that transition?
S1: And I reckon we'd be wanting to hold on to
S1: try and look at the screen as much as possible
S1: and would be really struggling sometimes to read text, etc..
S2: There can be quite challenging and rightly so for a
S2: lot of people. And I think what I tend to do,
S2: especially in schools where I see students, that they actually
S2: become at a disadvantage, relying on their vision as opposed
S2: to transitioning across into speech. And I think it's something
S2: that you have to tackle with sensitivity, and I think
S2: you have to sort of coach them through and you
S2: have to allow them to understand potentially the benefit of
S2: using speech more as opposed to their vision. So it's
S2: a very gentle approach. At least that's the way that
S2: I do it. Just recently, actually, I was working with
S2: a student and they were reading a piece of text
S2: and I said, okay, we're going to just get you
S2: to read that text, see how you go. And there
S2: was just a paragraph. And then after that I got
S2: them to listen to it. And I said, well, how
S2: did you find your comprehension with that text? Did you
S2: find it easier reading, or did you find it easier
S2: listening to it? And they said, well, you know, actually
S2: just listening to it, I can probably give you more
S2: information about what I read. And I said, not only that,
S2: what did you think of the speed? Like how quickly
S2: were you able to read that information. And they said, well,
S2: much quicker with audio. So something like that can help
S2: people to understand that you may still use your vision
S2: in a certain way, and that's absolutely fine. Each person
S2: is completely different. But if you look into the audio
S2: side of things where you need it, especially people with
S2: severe vision loss. You might find that it becomes easier
S2: to get through information quickly. Not only that, I've seen
S2: and heard of experiences where people that sometimes move from
S2: their vision to audio, other things happen, like they reduce
S2: the amount of headaches they might have. At the end
S2: of the day, they rely on their vision so much
S2: that end of day headaches sort of come through. And,
S2: you know, all the glare in the classroom and things
S2: like that.
S1: And once, once they're used to the audio less fatigue.
S2: Yeah, absolutely. So that's that's actually quite a common thing
S2: that I've seen a lot in schools is that, um,
S2: when they suffer from fatigue and they start to use audio,
S2: they can continue with the learning and being able to
S2: get through content. So that transition very different for a
S2: lot of people, but it's an important one to help
S2: people understand the benefits of using speech, if that's if
S2: that's required for them.
S1: Yeah. Very interesting. It's been great chatting with you today, Kent,
S1: and I'm sure people have found it interesting to learn
S1: what goes into your thinking behind the scenes of just the. Yes,
S1: I talk to these people and I installed this equipment, etc.
S1: it's a lot more to it than that. In the
S1: access technology world. So good on you and hope to
S1: have you back on talking tech again sometime.
S2: Thanks, Steven. Appreciate the chat.
S1: I've been speaking with Kent Walsdorf, who's an Access Technology
S1: lead with Vision Australia based in Geelong. He's been telling
S1: us about his role with Vision Australia. Just before we go,
S1: a reminder you can find details of this program and
S1: previous editions by going to VA radio, Talking Tech, VA radio,
S1: Talking Tech. And you can write to the program at
S1: Vision Australia. Is the naughty boys still looking at his emails?
S1: Damo McMorrow at Vision Australia. Org. This has been talking tech.
S1: I'm Stephen Jolley. Stay safe. We'll talk more tech next week.
S1: See you.