S1: From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's
S1: your host, Sam Coley.
S2: Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
S2: for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness
S2: and low vision.
S3: I feel like it's an unfair expectation to put on
S3: someone that just because they have a disability, they can
S3: provide all of this advice and expertise on something. It's
S3: like we have accessibility consultants for a reason, who you
S3: can bring in for particular things. And if more venues
S3: hired those consultants, it would just mean that we could
S3: turn up and get on with the jobs that we've
S3: been employed to do and not have to take on
S3: all this extra stuff as well.
S2: Welcome to the program. If you live in Melbourne or
S2: you know somebody in the Melbourne area, there's an exciting
S2: event coming up later this month specifically focused on performing
S2: artists who are blind or have low vision, and their
S2: fights for accessibility in the sector. I'm going to be
S2: chatting with Lauren and Mikayla, two of the people involved
S2: in the panel, to discuss that very topic, and you'll
S2: hear from them very shortly. And then after you hear
S2: from Lauren and Michaela this week, I catch up with
S2: Vision Australia chair Bill jolly. He's celebrated six months in
S2: the role as chair, and I catch up with him
S2: to have a chat about how the six months have
S2: panned out. I hope you'll enjoy this week's episode of
S2: Talking Vision. Our first two guests today are involved in
S2: the panel The Working Artist Redefining Access, who minds our
S2: access business run as part of the Disrupting Site at
S2: Ableism series through the Arts Centre Melbourne, in conjunction with
S2: Vita Veritas. Their names are Lauren Hayes and Michaela Schmidt,
S2: and it's my great pleasure to welcome them now. Lauren. Michaela,
S2: welcome back to Talking Vision. Thank you very much for
S2: your time.
S3: Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us.
S2: Now, Lauren, I'll start with you as the moderator of
S2: the panel, could you tell us a bit about the
S2: panel itself as part of the Disrupting cited ableism series?
S3: Sure. So this panel is the last in the series
S3: of three workshops, with the previous two being focused on
S3: audio description. And this panel is a standalone one, so
S3: you don't have to have registered for the previous two
S3: workshops to attend. You can just come along to this.
S3: And the other two speakers are Michaela Schmidt, who you'll
S3: hear from in a moment, and Olivia muscat. And so
S3: we are going to be talking about some of the
S3: access barriers that face artists, particularly those who are blind,
S3: and ways that we can be addressing those challenges.
S2: Michaela, I'm keen to hear from you. Now, give us
S2: a bit of an introduction to yourself, but also your
S2: role on the panel on the day.
S4: Sure. So I'm a blind theatre performer and theatre maker.
S4: So like I do a combination of writing work and
S4: performing and directing and that sort of thing. And I, yeah,
S4: have been doing that for a few years now. I
S4: live regionally as well, so I've been based in regional Victoria,
S4: so a lot of disabled artists sort of tend to
S4: be are the ones that we hear about, tend to
S4: be more metro based. So I'll be bringing a regional
S4: perspective to the panel and trying to shine a light
S4: on some of the barriers that regional disabled artists face.
S4: And yeah, I also work a bit as a freelance
S4: access consultant and mainly for theatre companies and arts venues.
S4: So helping them with their physical access and particularly around
S4: access for blind patrons and artists. Yeah, helping to help
S4: companies make their work more accessible. Yeah, both for audience members,
S4: but also for artists who might want to come and
S4: work in their venues.
S2: And, Lauren, I'll come to you now. Same question your way.
S2: Give us a bit of an intro to yourself and
S2: also role as moderator on the panel.
S3: Yeah, sure. So I am similar to Michaela in some
S3: respects where I work as an access consultant within the
S3: arts sector, working with performers around how they can make
S3: their works more accessible, but also with artists with disabilities
S3: around making sure that their access requirements are met, but
S3: then thinking about audience perspectives as well, and ways that
S3: we can make events more accessible for consumers of art.
S3: I also work in the digital accessibility space, so I
S3: do audits of apps and websites to make sure they
S3: meet all of their web content accessibility guidelines and provide
S3: training around creating accessible content and the basics of screen readers.
S3: For people who may not be as familiar with those.
S3: I was formerly based in Melbourne and now I live
S3: in Aotearoa New Zealand and work across both countries. In
S3: terms of my role on the day as moderator, I'll
S3: really be fielding questions from the audience but also asking
S3: our panelists questions, but sharing insights. We're kind of we're
S3: going with with a little bit of a kind of
S3: bouncing ideas off each other sort of session rather than
S3: having it as a really formal thing, because we felt
S3: like working in a in a more casual way within
S3: a structure still, but we felt that would work better.
S3: I'm not going to give too much away, but we
S3: have some what we think are cool themes for the
S3: session that we want to explore, but you'll have to
S3: come along and find out what they are.
S2: And that session is also, of course, being run through
S2: Vita Veritas. So I'm interested to hear about how you
S2: and Michela came across Vita Veritas, got involved with them
S2: and with Nilgun, the founder. So, Lauren, I'll come back
S2: to you.
S3: So I first found out about Vita Veritas. I think
S3: it was through Melbourne Fringe because I was doing some
S3: work with them last year as an Access Advisory Panel member,
S3: and I believe they were working with Vita Veritas on
S3: some of their events, and I hadn't worked with them previously.
S3: So I just reached out to Nilgun and talked a
S3: little bit about what I'm doing in the space, and
S3: suggested that it would be good to meet, because it's
S3: always good to get to know other people in the
S3: sector and what they're up to and. Wondered if there
S3: might be ways that we could collaborate together. And so
S3: we've worked on a couple of projects already this year,
S3: and so I'm excited to be working on this panel
S3: as well with Nilgun and Makayla.
S2: How about you?
S4: So this panel is the first project I've worked on
S4: with Vita Veritas. I think I was actually recommended by Lauren,
S4: but um, Nilgun and I have it's one of those
S4: scenarios where we've heard each other's names around for a
S4: while now. Nilgun, the founder, offers audio description training, and
S4: because I've been doing theatre making for a few years now,
S4: I've worked with other non-disabled artists who were already connected
S4: with Nilgun and have done audio description training and stuff
S4: with her, which I think is really exciting. It's great
S4: to hear that the concept of audio description is becoming
S4: more widely known amongst mainstream artists. So yeah, that's exciting.
S2: Now, Lauren, I'm keen to come back to you and Mikayla,
S2: of course, afterwards to just get your perspectives on specifically
S2: how we can rework our understanding and practice of access
S2: when it does come to seeking and supporting disabled talent.
S2: So Lauren, keen to pick your brain about that.
S3: Yeah, I feel like this is a we could do
S3: hours and hours, honestly. Yes. And it's a really multi-layered
S3: kind of thing. So I guess like in every area
S3: of employment, there's the issues that you might experience around
S3: applying for a role and disclosing your disability. And when
S3: you get to a form that might say, well, do
S3: you have any access requirements? And it's such a broad question.
S3: And those access requirements could differ from job to job
S3: or role to role. And so it's really tricky to
S3: say it's almost it almost makes you feel as if
S3: people are looking for that kind of box ticking approach
S3: to meeting your access requirements. So I guess that's one
S3: aspect of it. Then once you have your foot in
S3: the door and you're working either as an arts worker,
S3: so you might be doing an administrative role or you
S3: may be working as a performer, it's then communicating your
S3: access requirements and feeling like you're being listened to and heard,
S3: but also being supported. So in my experience, just working
S3: with a lot of artists, people find that they have
S3: to be their own consultant, like their own access consultant,
S3: in addition to performing. So they can't just turn up
S3: and get on and perform. They have to advocate for
S3: the things that they need to make that work more accessible.
S3: Whereas if they had somebody who could work with them
S3: and perhaps advocate on their behalf, then that would take
S3: some of that pressure off a little bit. So I
S3: think it's just changing some of those expectations around what
S3: we are required to do as artists and perhaps not
S3: blending those, the artist and the consultant role as much
S3: because they can be quite different. And even though we
S3: cross both, sometimes I think separating them out a little
S3: bit is helpful. They're some of my perspectives, but I'd
S3: love to hear what Mikayla has to say as she's
S3: been performing much more recently than I have. So I
S3: think would have some fresher perspectives as well.
S2: Certainly. And in that regard, Mikayla will come to you
S2: right now.
S4: Well, all right. I don't know what I can add.
S4: That was pretty well said. But, um, I guess one
S4: thing for me is what Lauren touched on about being heard.
S4: So yeah, of course this is important in any career,
S4: but in the arts, networking is particularly important. You know,
S4: how I got to know people in the sector was
S4: by going to shows and introducing myself to other artists
S4: and arts workers at events. And one thing I learned
S4: pretty early on that was that figuring out my branding
S4: was going to be important because, as Lauren mentioned, you know,
S4: I primarily want to be a performer and an artist.
S4: And so often I get asked to be either just
S4: an access consultant or to be an access consultant on
S4: top of performing in a show. And so firstly, kind
S4: of working out my branding and having the confidence to
S4: make that clear to the people who might be contracting
S4: me as important to work out. But then also if
S4: I have made that really clear of what my role
S4: or my expertise is for that to actually be heard,
S4: I feel that, yeah, we're still learning in the sector
S4: to not just box disabled artists into those stereotyped disabled roles.
S4: So yeah, and I think particularly as a regional artist,
S4: I find that people think they're doing a really good
S4: thing by asking me to do everything, you know, the
S4: creative work and the accessibility work, because then they feel like, oh,
S4: we've been really good. We've employed someone local, someone regional
S4: to do everything. But that's not necessarily the bet. You know,
S4: it's possible to have more than one disabled person working
S4: on one project. That's totally fine. And so I think, yeah,
S4: learning to look a little bit further, do a little
S4: bit more research, because there are both disabled artists and
S4: access consultants out there, and I think people learning how
S4: to find them and do the networking, rather than us
S4: always having to be the ones reaching out and doing
S4: that networking would be great as well if you're not disabled.
S4: So yeah, I guess for the disabled person it's about
S4: thinking about your. Branding and what you're willing to do.
S4: And then for the non-disabled people, it's about doing more
S4: research and networking to find those people.
S3: Yeah, another really good example of that. And this happens
S3: not just in the art sector but anywhere. And it's
S3: quite common. So I think it's good. Just to mention,
S3: to illustrate this point, is that I know so many
S3: people who in their roles, which may have nothing to
S3: do with disability at all, people will come to them
S3: and say, oh, can you please check this part of
S3: our website or this document to make sure that it's accessible?
S3: Because they might be one of the only people with
S3: disabilities in that organisation. And so they want to make
S3: sure that they're meeting all of the accessibility guidelines. But
S3: that might not be a person's strength, and they're having
S3: to do that on top of their regular work. And
S3: even though I suppose they're incorporating it into their hours,
S3: so they're still getting paid. But I feel like it's
S3: an unfair expectation to put on someone that just because
S3: they have a disability, they can provide all of this
S3: advice and expertise on something. It's like we have accessibility
S3: consultants for a reason, who you can bring in for
S3: particular things. And if more venues hired those consultants on
S3: a regular basis, just to make sure that things were
S3: in check, both in terms of physical access and digital
S3: and then the art space, just being that person who
S3: can help with making sure an artist's requirements are met,
S3: it would just mean that we could turn up and
S3: get on with the jobs that we've been employed to do,
S3: and not have to take on all this extra stuff
S3: as well.
S5: Mhm. Mhm.
S2: As you mentioned earlier in the interview, this is a
S2: hugely wide ranging conversation that we could absolutely have for hours,
S2: but you'll have to head along to the panel to
S2: find out a little bit more about that. And speaking
S2: of which, Lauren will stay with you and get a
S2: few details about the panel where, when and how people
S2: can sign up to head along.
S3: Yeah, so the panel is going to be held at
S3: the channel, which is part of Arts Centre Melbourne. It's
S3: going to be on the 25th of June. So that's
S3: a Tuesday from three until 5 p.m. and you can
S3: find all the details and register if you Google Arts
S3: Centre Melbourne disrupting sighted ableism.
S2: Perfect. I've been speaking today with Lauren Hayes and Michaela Schmidt,
S2: both involved with the Working Artist Redefining Access, who minds
S2: our access business. Taking place on the 25th of June
S2: at the Channel at Arts Centre Melbourne. Lauren, Michaela, thank
S2: you very much for your time today and all the
S2: best with the panel.
S3: Thank you so much.
S2: I'm Sam Cully and you're listening to Talking Vision on
S2: Vision Australia Radio. Associated stations of the Reading Radio Network
S2: and the Community Radio Network. As we all know on
S2: Vision Australia Radio. Everyone deserves to be heard. And that's
S2: why this month we're aiming to raise $50,000 to support
S2: the vital services that Vision Australia Radio continues to provide
S2: to the print disabled community. If you're able this month,
S2: please donate today by heading to the Vision Australia Radio
S2: website at VA radio.org. That's VA radio.org to make a donation.
S2: Every little bit helps and your generosity is of course
S2: greatly appreciated. And now back to the show and my
S2: chat with Bill jolly. A few weeks back, Bill jolly
S2: celebrated six months as chair of Vision Australia following the
S2: conclusion of Andrew Moffat's tenure as chair in October of 2023.
S2: And to mark the occasion, it was my great pleasure
S2: to catch up with Bill to look back over the
S2: past six months. Bill, welcome back to Talking Vision. Thank
S2: you very much for your time.
S6: Thanks, Sam. It's good to be with you.
S2: Now, Bill, of course, we are celebrating a rather momentous occasion.
S2: It's some six months, all over six months now that
S2: you have been the chair of Vision Australia. So I
S2: imagine that time's flown by in relative terms. What's the
S2: first six months been like for you?
S6: Well, it has gone along quite quickly, but I'm pleased
S6: to say also, Sam, it's gone along quite smoothly. At
S6: Vision Australia we've continued to do what we do, which
S6: is provide high quality services for people who are blind
S6: or have low vision and and it's my role as
S6: chair to make sure that the governance is attended to,
S6: that the infrastructure of the organisation is taken care of,
S6: and that everything's well positioned there so that our staff
S6: can continue to deliver services. It has been a pretty
S6: tough time for the Australian community generally over the last
S6: couple of years with inflation, which is eroding people's purchasing power.
S6: And we have the same problem at Vision Australia where
S6: costs increase, wages increase, but our government grants and other
S6: income doesn't necessarily or doesn't usually increase at the same rate.
S6: So we've had to be ever more frugal in our
S6: cost allocations and careful in our decision making. But I'm
S6: pleased that we have a very strong team headed by
S6: Ron Hutton, our CEO, and Justine Heath, our chief financial officer,
S6: and we've been able to keep things on an even
S6: keel over this period. And a highlight for us was,
S6: of course, Carols by Candlelight. And for the first time
S6: in many years, I, as chair, made a little appearance
S6: on Carols by Candlelight to thank the Australian public for
S6: their generous support of Vision Australia and in particular our
S6: children's services. And we raised more than $1 million last
S6: year through our partnership with channel nine and our lead sponsor, Aimee.
S6: So that was a very good way to lead into
S6: Christmas for us.
S2: Well, it's fantastic to see you pop up on the
S2: broadcast and there's a message. I'm sure a lot of
S2: Australians out there did treasure to hear from you at
S2: such a crucial time, and such a highlight for Vision
S2: Australia in the year, as you said, leading straight into Christmas. Now, Bill,
S2: in that little interlude at the time it was mentioned,
S2: your decades long, in fact almost lifelong association with Vision
S2: Australia and other blindness and low vision organisers associations within
S2: the sector. So what does it mean to you to
S2: have that sort of thing culminate in this role that
S2: you now occupy as chair of Vision Australia, an organisation
S2: with which you have had an association for so long?
S6: That's a very good question, and it makes me reflect
S6: about how as we go through life, our perspectives change.
S6: So my first involvement with a blindness organisation was when,
S6: at the age three, I went to the nursery school
S6: of the then Royal Victorian Institute for the blind. And
S6: then after that I went to Saint Paul's School, the
S6: Catholic school, as a boarder for the next ten years.
S6: And of course, I just took everything for granted, as
S6: little kids do, that this is the way that it was.
S6: But I didn't realise, of course, the challenge that having
S6: a blind child presents for that child's parents and in
S6: my case, my parents had four children who were. But
S6: no history in the family. So it was very important
S6: for them that the organizations were there to support and
S6: guide them in the nurturing and the raising of their children,
S6: and it was very important that they had high expectations
S6: of us children, and also that we had both peers
S6: and role models to look up to. And so as
S6: I've sort of gone through life initially as a youngster
S6: thinking that I wanted to change the world as young
S6: people often do, and realising as one gets older that
S6: most of the things that we do, we do for
S6: a pretty good reason. So it's my responsibility now to
S6: be the really the chief custodian of Vision Australia's culture
S6: and its service delivery. I'm reminded of then of how
S6: Vision Australia was or the predecessor. Organisations were very important
S6: for my parents, important for my family. Then, as we
S6: had one of our children who has low vision and
S6: is important today for the young parents and the parents
S6: of the young children who are new to the world
S6: of blindness and low vision. So that supportive role, that
S6: Vision Australia plays for families is a very important role. Plus,
S6: of course, our direct service that we provide to children,
S6: adults and to seniors so that as you go through life,
S6: you see often you see the same things but from
S6: different perspectives. And as I look back, I look back
S6: on an organisation, Vision Australia, which has a proud history
S6: through its predecessor organisations. It has also maintained very high
S6: standards of service and I've had a fair bit of
S6: international involvement and I'm quite satisfied that Australia's services to
S6: people who are blind or have low vision are world class,
S6: that Australia overall is a pretty good place to live,
S6: that it's a pretty good time for blind people to
S6: have been born with Braille and synthetic speech. And as
S6: I say, our services and our society infrastructure are pretty good.
S2: But within that environment, there are, of course, challenges that
S2: do present themselves. As you've mentioned already, the inflation and
S2: the funding aspect that many organisations Vision Australia, of course, included,
S2: that have to deal with that, especially in the not
S2: for profit sector. But what other sort of challenges do
S2: you perhaps foresee in 2024 and in the future, for example,
S2: the changes to the NDIS and what that will mean
S2: for blindness and low vision organisations as well as, you know,
S2: disability organisations more broadly.
S6: We actually think that the changes to the NDIS that
S6: are planned will not have much impact on people who
S6: are blind or have low vision, but more particularly on
S6: the organisations. So, for example, Sam, all of our staff,
S6: all of our frontline staff are fully accredited to provide
S6: services to people under the NDIS. So some of the
S6: proposed changes in terms of registration of staff just simply
S6: won't affect us. So we have very good clinical governance
S6: in Vision Australia. That is where we make sure that
S6: our staff have appropriate registration, that they have ongoing training
S6: and supervision, so we're pretty well set up there. I
S6: think one of the really interesting challenges coming forward for us,
S6: which is also an opportunity, comes out of this thing
S6: that everyone's talking about now called AI and AI or
S6: artificial intelligence, really means that we're having a giant or
S6: a great leap forward in the capacity of computers to
S6: do things. And these large language models, such as ChatGPT
S6: and the ones put out by Google and other companies,
S6: one that I use is by a company called perplexity.
S6: They will enable people to increase their productivity, to find
S6: information more quickly, to draft reports and school students, to
S6: draft answers to questions, which then they'll have the responsibility
S6: to go through and fix up properly. This is going
S6: to make a big difference to the whole of society,
S6: and we've got to see that it also works well
S6: for blind people, and that blind people using screen reader
S6: and magnification technology are able to also to get the
S6: benefits of AI. So we're having a look at that
S6: at Vision Australia and doing some specific work to help
S6: our clients to understand artificial intelligence and to understand how
S6: to use it. So as well as the traditional services
S6: that we've been having for many years, our services need
S6: to evolve as the. External environment changes. And that's something
S6: that we consider is very important. But we'll continue to
S6: provide those services for older people with our orthoptists and
S6: our occupational therapists. So we have the full range of
S6: services that continue, but we're always looking to do things
S6: a bit differently and do things more effectively. It's a
S6: very exciting time to be the chair of Vision Australia.
S6: I have a great team around me, other directors on
S6: the board and our leadership team headed by Ron. So
S6: it's a very good, very good time and I'm looking
S6: forward to the next couple of years being very beneficial
S6: for our clients.
S2: It's very exciting to hear about the advances in artificial intelligence.
S2: I am very interested to continue that conversation with you
S2: about artificial intelligence. Another time, Bill, that we could talk
S2: about that forever, but I think we'll, um, wrap up
S2: for now. Do you have any sort of final words
S2: that you'd like to share with our listeners as we
S2: finish up today in terms of looking forward to the future,
S2: the exciting things to come, but also what Vision Australia's
S2: role is looking like in 2024 and beyond.
S6: Well thanks Sam, I think that we're Vision Australia is
S6: well positioned moving forward through this year. Next year we
S6: have a stable environment. Inflation is coming down, which is good.
S6: We'll continue providing our services and I encourage people to
S6: reach out to Vision Australia. If you have any issues
S6: or concerns in relation to your daily living and other people,
S6: I thank you for your support of Vision Australia and
S6: we'll continue to do what we do to the very
S6: best of our ability and capacity to do so.
S2: I've been speaking today with Bill jolly, chair of Vision Australia,
S2: celebrating six months in the role as chair of Vision Australia,
S2: and it's been an absolute pleasure to catch up with you, Bill.
S2: Thank you again for your time and you're always welcome
S2: on Talking Vision any time in the future. Thank you
S2: very much.
S6: Thank you Sam, and it's good to be with you
S6: and with your listeners.
S2: And that's all the time we have for today. You've
S2: been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision
S2: Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the
S2: show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you.
S2: So please get in touch any time on our email
S2: at Talking Vision. At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all
S2: one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's
S2: Sam Colly saying bye for now.
S1: You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us any time
S1: during business hours on one 308 4746. That's one (300) 847-4106
S1: or by visiting Vision Australia. Org that's Vision australia.org.