S1: Nothing's off limits, things off limits. Bringing together experts and
S1: people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love
S1: to avoid, but absolutely need to talk about me with
S1: the support of Vision Australia and the NDIS information linkages
S1: and capacity building grants, including grants.
S2: Hello, and welcome to this fourth episode of Nothing's Off Limits.
S2: My name is Tess and together with my co-host Polly.
S2: We're continuing to delve into some of those topics which
S2: you might normally consider off limits, including body image and appearance, relationships,
S2: dating and identity, and much more. We'll be exploring them
S2: openly and honestly through the specific lens of blindness and
S2: low vision with the help of expert guests.
S3: Tess, I think regardless of age or experience, you know,
S3: the whole thing around menstruation is a real challenge. Do
S3: you think the challenge is greater for people with a disability?
S2: Look, I can really only speak to my personal experience,
S2: but I remember even being, you know, in my mid
S2: to late 20s and finding it very daunting having to
S2: go into the supermarket, my local supermarket that was mainly
S2: run run by men and having to ask them if
S2: I had any pads, you know I did. I felt it.
S2: You know, if I had a terrible stigma around, I
S2: couldn't just go and have a browse and then pay
S2: for them. I ended up actually having to get friends
S2: to go in for me because the embarrassment got too much.
S2: So I do think there are a whole lot of
S2: challenges which we'll talk about in this episode
S3: and to help us address some of those challenges. We
S3: have a line up of great guests, all coming with
S3: a wealth of insights on this topic. But first, we
S3: asked you how you manage your personal care and any
S3: difficulties that you've come up against, and we've got some
S3: really interesting answers.
S1: Nothing's off limits. With Tess and Polly Polly, personal hygiene
S1: is a very personal thing. But when it comes to hygiene,
S1: what do you think we should be talking about as
S1: a community
S4: in the current climate is why it was such a
S4: surprise for everyone to start washing your hands after you
S4: went to the toilet at befuddles me that the conversation
S4: we have to have with the community, there's just creepy.
S4: I can't believe that we had the produce marketing materials
S4: to remind people to wash their hands.
S5: Well, I guess over the last 12 months, washing hands
S5: has been front and center. But I guess there are
S5: other things such as oral hygiene, which can also help
S5: with things like chocolate and just things like body odor
S5: and having the ability to be able to have a
S5: regular shower. I think the issues are pretty much the
S5: same when it comes to hygiene because I guess we're
S5: going to listen pat or probably got a heightened sense
S5: of smell. So there's any bad body I do. I
S5: can probably pick it up, maybe more than others. And
S5: from a personal point of view, I can I can
S5: smell themselves as well.
S6: It's more challenging because the meter and a half roll, etc.
S6: is difficult for us to navigate. And quite frankly, it's
S6: something that as much as you can try and accommodate it,
S6: you can't really. It's challenging when you, for example, have
S6: to queue up in a bank and they make you
S6: sit down using the sanitizers, being able to find it
S6: in some instances, or making sure you carry around the
S6: issues of wearing masks.
S1: Accessible shaving equipment for men. More accessible was that men
S1: who are blind or have low vision can shave.
S4: I think we should be talking about women's health as
S4: a community. I also think we should be talking about
S4: sexual activity.
S7: When you're in the blind community, seeing you don't have
S7: that sense of seeing, but you do have other senses
S7: that you use. So to me, smell is always really important.
S7: So the importance of deodorants, perfumes, those sorts of things
S7: that can also be a great identifier for in this community.
S7: People know you often play a scent being conscious of
S7: what other people might see in terms of hygiene and
S7: how you need to take care of that and make
S7: sure you know your hair is shiny, your fingernails are clean.
S7: We need to be conscious of what other people are saying,
S7: even if we're not seeing it.
S2: Personal hygiene. This is a tricky one to say, but
S2: I have noticed in
S8: my blind, low vision community there are some people that
S8: have challenges with this, and I think it can often
S8: be politically incorrect to say something to them about it.
S8: But I really think it's important to give you have
S8: no vision.
S2: Then there's lots of stuff going on that you may
S2: not
S8: be aware of unless you and if someone just pointed
S8: out to you.
S1: You're listening to nothing's off limits. We're tense and poorly.
S1: Produced by Vision Australia radio.
S2: I'd now like to introduce Ms. Schmidt. Emma May is
S2: blind and is a music teacher living in Melbourne. She
S2: has written a book called The Blind Girl's Guide to
S2: Puberty and is here to tell us all about this MMI.
S2: Thanks for being here.
S8: Thanks, Jeff. Thanks for having me. What made you
S2: decide to write a book about puberty?
S8: Well, when I was a teenager and sort of late
S8: primary school pre-teen teenage years, we we covered a lot
S8: of things at Camp Sloane camp support skills. They would
S8: talk about social skills and talk about self advocacy. I'd
S8: even talk about presentation a little bit, but no one
S8: really talked about puberty and grooming and things. And I
S8: found that pretty odd because I would have thought it
S8: was quite important, especially for blind girls, and my family
S8: was quite open about a lot of it. But at
S8: the same time, I just didn't know what it really
S8: would feel like. So, for instance, of the period, I
S8: sort of set off, what if I'm out and there's
S8: just this kind of eruption of blood everywhere. And, you know,
S8: I thought I was going to be pretty messy and
S8: everyone else at school got to look at pictures and
S8: we didn't get any pictures. Sometimes I do a kind
S8: of 2D representation, but it didn't really help, and I
S8: was always a little bit curious about female anatomy and stuff,
S8: so I wanted to know what it looked like. And
S8: so I kind of realized that it wasn't just me
S8: that didn't quite know what was going on. So I thought, Well,
S8: why don't I brought a few ideas as to what
S8: things feel like, how things work? And it's really not
S8: that bad because no one else seems to be talking
S8: about this, of course.
S2: And I've been to those blind cats myself, and you
S2: were absolutely right. It didn't get mentioned. It is not
S2: a fun time. If you're a pre-teen, is it? You know,
S2: all these changes are happening into your body
S8: and you feel like all your school friends get to know.
S2: Of course. Of course. You know, I have a vivid
S2: memory of being 16 and my my best friend teaching
S2: me teaching me how to use iPad. So you just
S2: didn't get that education unless you got it through friends
S2: and through talking about, is this wonderful book of yours?
S2: What areas does it cover? What a detail does it
S2: go into
S8: as little bit about me in that it has a
S8: verbal description of the female reproductive system, so it talks
S8: about the uterus being shaped like a pear, which we
S8: were told in school. But it's not that helpful to see.
S8: One thinks that the fallopian tubes and eggs sort of
S8: travel down to the uterus, fertilize a baby or release
S8: them when you have your period when it and. But
S8: it only goes into that little bit of detail because
S8: I say when you describe it, it's difficult. So what
S8: I then suggest is that you can you can access
S8: life dulls Vision Australia used to have them, actually. I
S8: think that's still the case, but they're very handy if
S8: you can get a 3D idea of what you look like.
S8: The other reason I did that was because male reproductive
S8: organs are external as a not. So it's, you know,
S8: if you want an idea of how everything works, it's
S8: it's a good way to look at it. And then
S8: I talk a bit about bras because putting a bra
S8: on when you are training bras is a little bit fiddly.
S2: It's terrifying.
S8: It's a little bit. So I have it again. I
S8: have a little verbal descriptions of how to actually do it.
S8: So I did that and took about what looks like
S8: and then had a little bit of that going for
S8: a fitting with a bra. Yes. Then we talk about
S8: the main sort of topic, I guess, with the book,
S8: which is menstruation and periods. So then I'm going to
S8: have to put on a pad right from the start.
S8: So how to open up the package and take it
S8: out unfolded and put it on, and they're going to
S8: have to put in a tampon because another thing came
S8: up quite a bit in the discussion is just recently
S8: with some friends, but even with me, it's just sort
S8: of odd. I just don't wear one. My friends had
S8: to help me at the beach. I just I just
S8: didn't want to do it. And actually, if you want
S8: to go swimming, you kind of need to. I thought, Well,
S8: why not describe how to do it? A lot of
S8: people do. It's just too hard. So I went into
S8: detail about how to insert one and then I go
S8: into sort of cleaning up after yourself. So taking, you know,
S8: taking the pad off like pipeline out and where to
S8: put the most public toilets have been next to the toilet.
S8: I wasn't sure if girls were aware of that, so
S8: I mentioned it and then I did a little bit
S8: at the end about soaking. If you get a bit
S8: on your knickers or your sheets and keep getting a
S8: little cleaning everything up,
S2: that's the book. Yes, it sounds like you said it
S2: was so many wonderful, so many wonderful details in the
S2: book about how to do things that you might not
S2: have thought you were able to do, which are, I
S2: think it's a book that I would have loved to
S2: have read when when I was younger would be a
S2: key piece of advice, as it sounds to me like
S2: you've had experience talking to younger women about going through puberty.
S2: What's a key piece of advice that you would give
S2: somebody who's just starting puberty?
S8: I think the key piece I would. Gives them more information,
S8: and the more straight sort of straight talking you are
S8: about it, the less bad it will sound because it's
S8: less mysterious and so especially for parents safe and cited parents.
S8: My advice would be try and think of everything that
S8: you didn't have to think of. So it's all very
S8: well to say that blood's going to come out of
S8: your vagina. It means you're growing up. And also, you
S8: get breasts and you'll have to start wearing bras. But
S8: try and think of things like when you're out and
S8: you go into a public toilet, there's going to be
S8: being next to it or give them warning signs like
S8: give them as much information as you can. So the
S8: more information you give, the less bad and scary will
S8: actually seem to be the main thing. That was the
S8: main reason I wrote the book, actually.
S2: I think that's a fantastic way to end on and Emma.
S2: Thank you so, so much for chatting to us today.
S2: It's been a real pleasure.
S8: Thank you for having me.
S2: It's time to welcome our second guest, Bianca Patrick. Bianca
S2: is blind and has lived experience of managing menstruation. Bianca
S2: has a wealth of fascinating insights to share with us
S2: on this topic. Bianca, thanks for being here. Thank you
S2: for having me.
S3: Yeah, thanks so much for joining us, Bianca, and particularly
S3: to talk about a topic which I think we're all
S3: quite comfortable talking about, but some people less so. So
S3: are there particular challenges to dealing with periods if you're
S3: blind or have low vision?
S7: Yes, there are a lot of challenges for me in particular.
S7: That's one of the first challenges was knowing what was
S7: happening and when it was happening. A lot of people get,
S7: you know, cramps on a specific day before that period
S7: or they get crabby or whatever. But things just never
S7: really showed me what was going on. One month, I'd
S7: have a tummy ache. One month that had nothing. Nothing
S7: was really there. That was a marker to tell me, OK, like,
S7: am I going to get my period now? I wasn't
S7: always prepared. And then ending up getting a period when
S7: you really don't want to be getting a period, I
S7: got it as I was just about to get on
S7: a plane to a camp. Stress made it come early.
S7: I was in the middle of an operation and I
S7: got my period. But just, yeah, all sorts of stuff
S7: like that.
S3: Do you think the level of education that's particularly targeted
S3: at people who are blind to have no vision? Because
S3: I know we've talked before about how a lot of
S3: the information at school and a lot of the material
S3: out there is really visual, you know, it's sort of
S3: patches of of various anatomical things and what have you.
S3: Do you think that there's still work to be done
S3: in the space educating people from that perspective?
S7: The education is absolutely abysmal. I think there needs to
S7: be a huge amount of work done and people need
S7: to come to terms with the fact that their blind
S7: children or their blind relatives or whatever are getting periods.
S7: And that is a fact of life, and you can't
S7: do anything about it or you can do is educate
S7: them like you would educate your sighted relatives, but you
S7: just have to do it in a in a non
S7: visual way.
S8: And do you think
S3: there is a sense of embarrassment in the community talking
S3: on this subject?
S7: Absolutely. There's a huge sense of embarrassment. I was talking
S7: to a friend who was it's a bit of a
S7: bit tangential, but it's it totally says everything in Japan.
S7: They were talking about natural disasters and preparing for that
S7: and all that, and they didn't have sanitary stuff or
S7: baby formula or anything for people in those disaster areas
S7: because it was men who were doing the doing the logistics.
S7: Oh yeah, yeah,
S3: that does seem to be a more general squeamishness about it.
S3: You know, it's the classic most of the appetizing. I
S3: think there is one company who's actually started using red now,
S3: but when they advertise sanitary products, it's always with this
S3: mysterious blue liquid that shows absorbency rates and things. And
S3: nobody parties that I didn't know that I didn't right.
S3: The idea that, you know, seeing seeing blood on screen
S3: is somehow too shocking and too revolting for us to
S3: cope with. So, yes, I use a nice clinical looking
S3: blue liquid in every single update on on television and
S3: in magazines is extraordinary,
S7: which is very blueblood to a whole new level. I know,
S7: I know.
S3: Can you talk a bit about the different options you've
S3: got out there than managing your period?
S7: I have found having IUDs and implants. I had an
S7: IUD for a long time. I need to correct myself.
S7: I had an IUD for a long time. I have
S7: an implant now and just an IUD.
S3: For those of us who aren't sure an IUD is
S3: intrauterine device, is that right?
S7: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, basically, I had the marina and the
S7: marina looks like eight times new Roman tee. It looks
S7: like a capital T in print, which is a long
S7: vertical line with a horizontal line on the top. And
S7: the vertical line is such that there are two equal sides.
S7: Going horizontally, but usually if you look at a T.,
S7: It's just the two straight lines, but if you've got
S7: two times you run into each, it's got these little
S7: ticks going down the sides. So it's kind of like
S7: a roof. This little device is full of, I think
S7: it's progesterone and they inserted into your cervix and it
S7: has little, little wires going out. Basically, what happened to
S7: me was that I stopped getting periods. I also had
S7: it for contraception because it's one of the most effective
S7: contraception methods in case accidents happened. You get it put
S7: in and you have it for five years and you
S7: have no periods.
S3: And the people who are maybe less comfortable with having
S3: something more invasive, let's go for the typical scenario you're
S3: in the supermarket or the chemist and you've gone to
S3: the sanitary products aisle. You're blind to the explosion. How
S3: on earth do you navigate that? It's overwhelming enough when
S3: you're sighted. There's so many choices.
S7: Research, I guess what I what I got myself was
S7: a diva cup that is basically a little silicone medical
S7: grade silicone top that you fold and you insert and
S7: it covers your cervix. The blood drips into it and
S7: then you empty it and then you re-enter it. And
S7: you can basically put that on my shoe around the
S7: time that you are going to get your period and
S7: you can empty it every up to 12 hours. You
S7: can get pads and you can get tampons as well,
S7: but the menstrual cups are good. There are a few
S7: different kinds this, but they're all silicone. I think there's
S7: one or two that were latex, but we won't talk
S7: about those. And the thing about them is that they
S7: are environmentally friendly. They don't leave crap all over landfill.
S7: They don't cause toxic shock syndrome like the tampons could
S7: if if it's kept too long in place, things like that.
S7: And there are about 20 or 30 bucks and they
S7: last for about 10 years.
S3: And let's go through the worst case scenario. How would
S3: you how would you advise people deal with the situation?
S3: You're out, you're out and about, you're not ready for
S3: it and it's decided to come nonetheless. You may have
S3: a stain. You're not sure what
S7: do you do? A lot of people get really upset
S7: and embarrassed, and years ago, I probably would have as well. Nowadays,
S7: I'm just like, OK, I wasn't prepared. I have a
S7: period if I look like, you know, I'll make a
S7: joke about or something. Yeah, if I look like the
S7: psycho movie and or like Freddy Krueger just had a
S7: go at me or something, you know, like just just
S7: some kind of thing, I think it's normal, like if
S7: something's really, really bad. My instinct these days is to
S7: act like it's normal and be like, OK, I got
S7: my period. I got it early. I got it unexpectedly.
S7: I'm probably going to stay in the absolute heck out
S7: of everything right now. I'm probably going to need some
S7: kind of help. And I'll ask some help. And you know,
S7: and these days, I don't care if it's a guy
S7: or a girl, I will ask for help where I
S7: can get it.
S3: And you're right. I mean, you say acting like it's
S3: normal absolutely is normal. And you know, that's happened to
S3: all of us. And you just kind of roll your
S3: eyes and get on with it. And I suppose the
S3: the the classic soak everything in cold water is everyone's
S3: best friend at this point, isn't it?
S7: Absolutely. See, people around me acted like it wasn't normal.
S7: Got all embarrassed. I ended up in tears and it
S7: didn't like it didn't change the fact that I had
S7: my period.
S3: And so, Bianca to end. If you're someone who maybe
S3: is just about to start cutting periods or maybe feel
S3: like you haven't quite found the sweet spot in managing
S3: your own, where might you go to find out more
S3: about what options there are out there?
S7: If you're at school or something, go see the school nurse.
S7: The school nurse needs to tell you about this sort
S7: of stuff. They'll help you if if your parents are
S7: not in a place to help you go find someone
S7: who you trust. If you know, looking, sitting and looking
S7: at the internet is a bit too impersonal, find someone
S7: you trust and they will help you with this stuff
S7: that maybe they'll take you out shopping. You can go
S7: get them and still come on. Period underwear is a
S7: good thing, too.
S3: Can you explain a bit about what that is?
S7: Yeah, I've never worn it, but it's underwear that absorbs
S7: your period blood and a parent. Apparently, there's like light,
S7: slow ones and heavy flow ones and bonds makes them
S7: and a couple of other brands. What's a which is
S7: there's one I heard about recently in the name. Just
S7: going out
S3: of the body is the one called my
S7: body. Yes, yes there is. Yes, there is. Thank you.
S7: Those would be nice and discreet, I guess, but find
S7: someone who you can trust. And if you get your
S7: first period soon, see if you can have a period
S7: party I love that's supposed to be celebrated.
S3: I don't think I'll ever get to the celebratory stage,
S3: but absolutely damn right. We should think it's as normal
S3: as anything, and I hope that it's not going to
S3: be too long before periods is not an appropriate topic
S3: for something where we're looking at things that are off limits. Bianca, thank.
S3: You so, so much for joining us, this has been
S3: so helpful, and thank you for your frankness as well.
S3: It's been really, really valuable for us. Thank you so much.
S7: Thank you.
S1: You're listening to nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly DG,
S1: no vision Australia now provides a comprehensive set of telehealth
S1: services to help you achieve your goals. For more information,
S1: go to Vision Australia dot org or call one 800
S1: eight four seven four double six. Visit Australia Blindness Low
S1: Vision Opportunity.
S3: Our next guest is Amy Matthews. Amy is an occupational
S3: therapist at Vision Australia and specialises in helping people who
S3: are blind or have low vision develop the skills they
S3: need to live the life they choose. Amy has lots
S3: of handy tips and strategies for managing personal care, so
S3: we're so thrilled to have you on the show. Thank
S3: you so much, Amy.
S8: Thanks for having me. Amy, what strategies would you suggest
S2: to clients for managing menstruation?
S8: There are lots of different strategies available. They're all individual
S8: to the clients. There are more options coming out all
S8: the time. Something I really like for a client who's
S8: struggling with managing pads and lining them up or having
S8: issues with leakage is period pants. They're a fairly recent development,
S8: and they're just like regular underwear. Except the pad is
S8: built in, so you don't have to work out where
S8: there's a sanitation bin in the toilet. Dealing with changing pads,
S8: potentially when you're out, period pants mean they don't have
S8: to change anything throughout the day. They've got special absorbent
S8: material that I don't understand. I think it's magic material
S8: that you can wear them all day and not feel
S8: like you're wearing wet undies. You wear them for the day.
S8: Then rinse them off in cold water. Rinse them with
S8: some gentle soap. No fabric softener because fabric softener does
S8: something to the fabric and deactivate the magic so they
S8: stop absorbing anything, rinse them at the end of the
S8: day and then wash them as you would all the
S8: rest of your clothes for a couple of
S2: other things people can
S8: do. There are strategies that people might already know and
S8: be aware of, like pads and tampons. Each have their
S8: benefits and challenges. Some people find with menstruation pads that
S8: they have some difficulty lining them up or making working
S8: out where to position them in their underwear. I often
S8: suggest people start with using pads that have wings, and
S8: you can line the top of the wings up with
S8: the little line or that double seam on the front
S8: of your underwear. Most underwear will have a double layer
S8: of fabric that little bit of extra protection that's not
S8: intended for managing periods, but where the double layer of
S8: fabric is is a really good guide for positioning your pads.
S8: Because if it's obviously too high or too low, you
S8: can get leakage at the top or the bottom. The
S8: other thing that I would suggest for some people is
S8: getting the longer pads so that if they are a
S8: little bit boards or a little bit back, you've got
S8: a bit of extra leeway. Young girls who are often
S8: a lot smaller in structure and getting used to wearing pads,
S8: they often find that having smaller, thinner ones and changing
S8: them more regularly is their preferred method. A lot of
S8: clients tell me that they don't know when to change
S8: their pads. They can't see the amount of blood thinner.
S8: If you've taken them off, the weight will be different,
S8: but most people will change them at regular times in
S8: the day, whether they set an alarm on their phone
S8: or just carried the right note pads change them. It's
S8: morning to lunch and afternoon tea.
S2: Now, puberty is a great time. It's not really. I mean,
S2: we all love it because not only do we miss
S2: them tonight are have absolutely we. We sometimes get our
S2: periods and we can also get haze fry sprouting left,
S2: right and centre on our bodies.
S8: You know, some people like
S2: like to keep these, these heads and some people like
S2: journalism if you do like to remove them. What are
S2: some ways in which people who are blind or have
S2: low vision can
S8: safely remove these hairs on their body? It depends on
S8: where the hairs are popping up. I, for one, am
S8: very glad puberty is over and have just had the
S8: joy of his popping up on my chin. I personally
S8: don't feel I'm quite ready to embrace that look. Some
S8: people do. But using your other senses to feel where
S8: the hairs are to remove them. A lot of people
S8: will use electric razors if they're deciding they don't want
S8: hair on their legs or other pubic areas under their arms.
S8: Electric razors have the advantage that they're less likely to
S8: cut the skin. However, some people find they don't cut
S8: as close. I've had a number of clients tell me
S8: that men's electric razors cut better and closer than females
S8: electric razors, so it's worth talking to people and working
S8: out which ones they prefer. Some people also decide that
S8: they don't want to remove their pubic hair completely, but
S8: just trim it. There are also trimming options if shaving
S8: or removing the hair isn't an option because they don't
S8: like it growing back quickly, or it's too fussy or annoying.
S8: There are different cream solutions that can bleach or remove hair.
S8: Before you start on. Any of these always do a
S8: patch test. Maybe talk to friends or family, talk to
S8: your tea or your support worker. Even the assistance at
S8: the pharmacy will provide advice on different products.
S2: How about public bathrooms? Have you experienced clients having difficulties
S2: accessing public bathrooms?
S8: Yes, it's unfortunately a common issue, as a lot of
S8: people will find themselves directed to a bathroom, but once
S8: they're inside having difficulties getting around. I find clients will
S8: often ask somebody to tell them in the bathroom where
S8: the cubicles, where the sinks are they on the left
S8: or the right. Asking for specific directions to the layout
S8: of the bathroom with the toilet cubicles asking somebody in
S8: advance which cubicle has a sanitation bin if they've got
S8: their period and they need to safely dispose of pants?
S8: Having a idea of a general layout makes navigating a
S8: bit easier. Amy, where
S2: can women and men go if they want to find
S2: out more information about managing their personal
S8: care? So if they're having specific issues or things, they
S8: want to manage bit better. Men and women can talk
S8: to their occupational therapist and work through their specific goals
S8: where the barriers are and be more independent, managing their
S8: personal care and cleaning for men and women.
S2: And you can access occupational therapy support via Vision Australia. Amy,
S2: it's been wonderful having you on the show today. Thank
S2: you so much for being here.
S8: Thank you for letting me share some of my knowledge.
S3: This is just the start of the conversation about personal care.
S3: More information and some useful resources can be found on
S3: the Vision Australia website, including an article with some handy
S3: facts about periods.
S2: Remember, you can download each episode of Nothing's Off Limits
S2: by going to the Vision Australia website. Just go to
S2: Vision Australia dot org. That's Vision Australia dot org type.
S2: Nothing's off limits into the search engine, and you'll be
S2: directed to my web page where you can listen to
S2: this and other episodes and do make sure you subscribe
S2: so you don't miss any. Or if you prefer, you
S2: can just tune in vintage in Australia right here.
S3: Next time, we'll be talking about relationships. How to develop
S3: and nurture positive relationships. Red flags to look out for.
S3: And what to do about them. And we have a
S3: great lineup of guests to help us, including a couple
S3: of familiar voices. But until then, thank you to our
S3: fantastic guests and thank you for joining us for the
S3: show where nothing's off limits.
S1: That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of
S1: efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant.
S1: Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio,
S1: dot org and access all there is to know about
S1: our range of client services via our website. Vision Australia
S1: dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode,
S1: but especially you for listening today. We rely on your support,
S1: so please share this podcast with just one person today
S1: and brighten our day or write us on your preferred
S1: podcast platform. Bye for now.