S1: Hello everyone! Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition available from
S1: November the 21st, 2023. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have
S1: you with us. Listening may be through Vision Australia, Radio,
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S1: within Australia. Radio talking tech podcast vision Australian radio talking
S1: tech podcast with me, someone who can explain all this
S1: tech stuff very well. Vision Australia's national advisor on access technology,
S1: David Woodbridge. David, you suggested today we spend time talking
S1: about products of Whisperer or really a subset of Spiro,
S1: which we used to know as Freedom Scientific and still
S1: do a lot of the time. The screen reader, jaws,
S1: screen magnifiers, zoom text, and the one that brings both
S1: of those together really fusion. So let's break that down
S1: a little bit. Firstly, can you explain to those who
S1: are not quite sure what a screen reader is and
S1: what a screen magnifier is?
S2: Basically, a screen reader is a computer program which reads
S2: information off the computer screen. And what I mean by
S2: that just doesn't read the text off the screen. It
S2: actually reads everything on the screen when you're particularly using
S2: the keyboard and in some circumstances, the mouse. So it
S2: reads out your buttons on the screen, your labels of
S2: your fields in a database, it reads out menu bars,
S2: so it reads out everything that a sort of person
S2: would see. And there are certain things that make a
S2: screen reader a lot different to things that just, quote,
S2: talk to you on the computer. So that's screen readers.
S2: And then screen magnification software is what it sounds like.
S2: It magnifies the screen. Now what some people don't realize
S2: is when it magnifies the screen, it means that you're
S2: only looking at one portion of the screen at a time.
S2: So when we talk about two times magnification, it's basically,
S2: you know, two times wide, two times height. So you're
S2: only looking at one small portion. And then the the
S2: higher up you go in the magnification setting, the smaller
S2: the amount of screen you're visually looking at, and the
S2: more you have to use the cursor or the mouse.
S2: But then there's lots of features that you can use
S2: to then go on in certain parts of the screen,
S2: you can change a color contrast. You can change what
S2: your mouse looks like, all sorts of amazing things. Plus
S2: have a bit of speech feedback if you want on
S2: certain application screens or in documents and so on.
S1: So we're talking about software that runs in the Windows
S1: 10 and Windows 11 environment. Let's explain a little more
S1: about the jaws first.
S2: And look I know Windows 8 is still around and
S2: so on, but I just thought just to keep it
S2: nice and clean, let's talk about the current ones, which
S2: is Windows 10 and Windows 11. So let's talk about jaws.
S2: It's been around for over 25 years, and it's one
S2: of those screen readers that has developed a lot over
S2: the years. So it does stuff that most modern day
S2: screen readers do, including the free ones. So, you know,
S2: it reads out your screens and it runs at your
S2: door boxes and your labels and that sort of stuff.
S2: But what it does very well is that it's specifically
S2: programmed or scripted to use certain applications. So things like
S2: Microsoft Office, Edge and so on. So it's turned into
S2: a very powerful screen reader. And what it also does
S2: is it has little extra features that that have been
S2: added on through the years. So there isn't one that
S2: people may have noticed about is the the face in
S2: view function. So whether you're on a zoom call, you
S2: can check with your screen to make your or your
S2: faces in the video frame. But one thing in particular
S2: that make jaws stand out is that when I mentioned
S2: the word programmable, well, we call it scripting. And that's
S2: because particularly in the workplace and even to some extent
S2: in education, particularly higher education. So tertiary level, you are
S2: going to be using programs that are not really designed
S2: to work with a screen reader, like Jaws or Narrator
S2: or Nvidia, the free one as well. So what you
S2: can do with jaws, you can actually program it to
S2: work with the different buttons and labels and windows on
S2: the screen. And one of the extra features is called tandem.
S2: And what tandem allows you to do is to log
S2: in to that machine. And the person remotely that's logged
S2: in can then program jaws on the other end and
S2: make sure it actually works with that particular program. So
S2: that makes it extremely powerful. Indeed.
S1: There's pretty good training resources for Jaws, isn't there? From
S1: Freedom Scientific?
S2: There is. In the show notes. I've got a few
S2: links to the training page. And effectively, they're pretty much
S2: Daisy books where they take you through certain tasks to
S2: do with, you know, Outlook or Microsoft Word and those
S2: sort of applications. There's also built in daisy training inside
S2: drawers itself. And then Freedom Scientific has two podcasts. They've
S2: got cast, which is their main podcast for film Scientific,
S2: where they outline and talk to people that use jaws,
S2: zoom Text or fusion. And they also have a training
S2: podcast so you can subscribe to both of those in
S2: your favorite pod catcher and catch up with different highlights
S2: of different things that they're doing every month or two.
S1: Tell us more about zoom text. The screen magnifier.
S2: Zoom text started off like jaws said back in the
S2: old DOS days. That's how long both of them have
S2: been around for, and zoom text has grown into one
S2: of the most used screen magnification program, at least in Australia.
S2: And what it allows you to do is to do
S2: an image before lots of amazing, cool things to do
S2: with your screen so you can do a lens view,
S2: you can do a half a screen view, you can
S2: do a full view, you can color match. So for example,
S2: let's say for example, you have trouble looking at the
S2: color blue. Then you can actually color match that to
S2: a different color. You can have different preset magnification levels
S2: that you can jump into. Or you can actually change
S2: the magnification levels on the fly. If you've got low
S2: vision and you're getting a bit visually fatigued, you can
S2: have it so that we'll actually read out application windows
S2: or documents to, you know, that's not a screen reader function.
S2: That's purely a text to speech to try and save
S2: your eyes a bit. You can also get it so
S2: that when you take your mouse over items, it will
S2: also speak at what's under the mouse. So you not
S2: only get the the low vision large print icon, mouse cursor,
S2: but you also get a bit of speech feedback as well.
S2: And of course like Jaws, you can customize it to
S2: a range of applications. But again, it's not going to
S2: be as configurable as a screen reader because screen readers
S2: sort of they do or they don't work with large print,
S2: you've got a little bit more leeway. But the really
S2: cool thing that I love about zoom text is that
S2: you can use it with two screens. So if you're
S2: a person in the workplace in particular that uses two
S2: screens for data input or other reasons, and then the
S2: screen magnification will actually work with both. But again, you've
S2: got to have it set up properly. And that's again
S2: why the adaptive technology service at Vision Australia's also available
S2: is to get that right set up. Otherwise of course
S2: it won't work properly.
S1: Another option for people with low vision that is some
S1: or minimal useful vision. So they like to look at
S1: things as well as to get the speech feedback. The
S1: product fusion.
S2: So what fusion is, it's basically running Jaws and Zoom
S2: text together. So what happens is that speech component I
S2: was talking about zoom text and that's fully taken over
S2: by jaws. So you're literally getting a full blown screen
S2: reader running jaws and a full blown screen magnifier running
S2: zoom text. So together you're getting the benefit of running
S2: an absolutely fantastic screen reader for windows, and of course,
S2: an absolutely fantastic screen magnifier for windows. Now, just a
S2: bit of a caution because you're running two assistive technology
S2: programs together, you really have to make sure that your
S2: machine's capable of running both. And the second thing to
S2: keep in mind is that zoom text is currently not
S2: compatible with Arm64 processors, so you won't be able to
S2: run zoom text on that. Jaws will still run, but
S2: zoom text, right? So if you're trying to run fusion,
S2: you're going to end up with the fact that zoom
S2: text part of it won't run at all. So again,
S2: it has to be internal. If you're using fusion. And
S2: one final thing I want to say about jaws text
S2: or fusion is that they can also run in what
S2: are called terminal or remote applications. And the most famous
S2: one of that, of course, is Citrix. And that's where
S2: all your applications are coming off a central server. So
S2: you're not running the applications locally. And what Jaws and
S2: zoom techs can do is they can actually access those
S2: programs running from the remote server because it most of
S2: the time, that's where the Jaws and zoom text applications
S2: are also installed. And lots of businesses use Citrix because
S2: you only have to update the main server. The local
S2: computers are literally just almost like old dumb terminals that
S2: we used to see back in the old mainframe days
S2: back in the 80s.
S1: Another point about Jaws is that for people who like
S1: to use Braille, and particularly for people who are deaf, blind,
S1: but for lots of others who like to use Braille,
S1: jaws will set up. To use Braille devices.
S2: It is. And there's a huge range of braille displays
S2: now from scientific is very famous for their focus 40
S2: and I might say their focus 80 cell braille display. Now,
S2: if I had the room, I'd love to use an
S2: 80 cell braille display because you can fit that much content.
S2: It's just that it's so enormous. I probably should also
S2: add at this stage that remember that you can get
S2: demonstrations of all these programs. So if you're not sure
S2: if it meets your needs or if you want to
S2: spend lots of money on something, you can run all
S2: these in demonstration mode. Once the demo mode in particular,
S2: say for jaws, finishes after 40 minutes, you can restart
S2: your computer and use it for another 40 minutes, and
S2: so on. All these come in demonstration modes, and what
S2: some people do sometimes is they use their quite free
S2: screen reader like narrator in video, and then while they're
S2: learning or checking out jaws, for example, particularly on the internet,
S2: then they'll just use the 40 minute demo or the
S2: evaluation mode for for zoom text and or fusion.
S1: Jaws in particular does come at a fair price, doesn't it?
S2: It does. Now there's two versions of it. There's the
S2: home version, and then there's the professional version, and then
S2: there's also a live an extra version if you want
S2: to use it with remote Citrix, there's a, you know,
S2: a sort of a new added on license bit, and
S2: you've got two costs. You've got the cost for the
S2: initial software, and then you've got a software maintenance agreement
S2: that gives you two free updates every time there's a
S2: like a major update to the screen reader. So reasonably,
S2: you're looking at, let's say, between $1,000 ish for zoom
S2: text up to a Jaws license for professionals, which is
S2: about $2,500. Now, when you start thinking that you're going
S2: to be adding maybe zoom text on top of the
S2: price of jaws, it starts to be reasonably expensive and
S2: certainly be a lot more expensive than buying the computer.
S2: And that's why I say to people that you really
S2: need to get access, particularly for education and for for workplaces,
S2: that what you're getting is going to do the job
S2: for you and especially 100% the workplace. But of course,
S2: that's what funding for is through job access for the workplace.
S1: So for just private personal use, jaws may not be
S1: the go. One of the other screen readers might be
S1: the one for you.
S2: Absolutely. Because, look, most of us that use computers at
S2: home and we're mainly doing web browsing, we're doing mailing,
S2: we're doing word processing, but they're not horrendous things. We're
S2: not dealing with huge databases or complicated screens for customer
S2: service systems. And that's where it gets much more complicated
S2: in the workplace or doing statistical programs, doing a PhD
S2: or a higher education or mathematics and so on. So
S2: for home use, I don't think realistically people need jaws.
S2: I think Nvda, your narrator is quite good for those
S2: sort of purposes.
S1: The best way to get hold of these products in
S1: Australia can help.
S2: That's right. So you can contact the ATI helpdesk at
S2: Vision Australia to get support in the use and installation.
S2: And if you like training with the screen readers and
S2: screen magnifiers and so on. You can also contact the
S2: Vision Store to purchase licenses for both Jaws or Zoom
S2: Text or buy for them. Fusion. Because what you tend
S2: to do with this stuff, you download the software first,
S2: which will then be in the demo mode, and you
S2: then buy a license. And the license when you run
S2: these programs, comes up and says, do you want to
S2: run it as a demo or do you want to
S2: activate it? And that's the license that you would purchase
S2: from Vision Australia.
S1: And just before we go, a reminder of where people
S1: can find details of everything you've been talking about in
S1: this and previous editions of the program.
S2: Indeed. So as always, you can check out my blog site,
S2: which is David Wood Beer dot Podbean pad bin com.
S1: David would be our podbean podbean to right to the program.
S2: You can write to me at Business Radio where I work,
S2: which is David Dot Woodbridge how it sounds at Vision Australia.
S1: Org David Dot Woodbridge at Vision Australia. Org this has
S1: been talking tech with me has been Vision Australia's national
S1: advisor on access technology David Woodbridge I'm Stephen Jolley. Stay safe.
S1: We'll talk more tech next week. See you.