S1: From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's
S1: your host, Sam Colley.
S2: Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
S2: for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness
S2: and low vision. Welcome to the program. We've got a
S2: jam packed show for you in store this week as
S2: we honor stellar, who's moving on from Vision Australia after
S2: 15 years, including, of course, five years as the host
S2: of Talking Vision. Stellar caught up with me to say
S2: farewell to our listeners, but also have a look back
S2: over the past 15 years of her involvement in radio,
S2: as well as other roles such as working with the
S2: Vision Australia library. That conversation is coming up right around
S2: the corner, so make sure to stick around. And then
S2: after my chat with stellar, you'll hear an excerpt from
S2: one of the first interviews she did as host of
S2: Talking Vision with a researcher and participant in the Bionic
S2: Eye trials back in 2015. I hope you'll enjoy this
S2: special episode of Talking Vision. Today is quite emotional for, well,
S2: not only me, but a lot of the other Vision
S2: Australia radio crew and the Talking Vision crew as Stella
S2: is heading off to explore some new adventures. It's my
S2: great pleasure to welcome Stella on to Talking Vision. Not
S2: for the final time by any stretch, but to say
S2: farewell and thank her for all she has contributed both
S2: to talking vision and passing on her years of wisdom
S2: and expertise to me to help make talking vision the
S2: best it can be. Stella, welcome back to Talking Vision.
S2: Thank you very much for your time. Oh, thanks.
S1: For having me on the show.
S2: Sam. Now, it's a bit of a special bit of
S2: an emotional conversation we're having today, as this will be
S2: your final conversation on Talking Vision.
S3: Oh.
S1: I don't know. Do you think you'll have me back
S1: on again? Absolutely.
S2: You're more than welcome in various other capacities, Liz. For sure.
S2: No worries. But yeah, it's a big time. You'll be
S2: heading off to explore other opportunities after 15 years at
S2: Vision Australia. So how do you feel looking back over
S2: those 15 years? What are the emotions that are kind
S2: of running through your mind at the moment?
S1: Oh well, bittersweet, I would say. Like, I'm really excited.
S1: It's time for me to move on and explore other opportunities.
S1: But it's interesting when you start leaving an organisation, people
S1: start saying really nice things to you and you know,
S1: and now I'm like, oh, do I want to go?
S1: But so bittersweet, I would say, and emotional, of course,
S1: when you've been somewhere for 15 years and Vision Australia
S1: has certainly meant a lot to me. I don't feel
S1: because I work, uh, you know, you get to know
S1: the library members and Vision Australia clients, not forgetting staff
S1: as well. You know, you sort of in radio, you're on,
S1: you're sort of connected to the community. You are so
S1: so it's yeah, I would say that it's a little
S1: bit sad, but at the same time, I'm excited.
S2: You mentioned people there, and quite a few of your
S2: roles have been quite heavily involved with talking to people,
S2: allowing people to tell their stories, but also helping people
S2: out more generally in the community. So what's it been
S2: like interacting with so many wonderful people over those 15 years?
S1: Yeah, it has been wonderful to steal your words there.
S1: It's been a learning curve. So I was a coordinator
S1: of volunteers for six years before I stepped into the
S1: communications role and taking over talking vision. I don't think
S1: I have ever felt so accepted by a community before,
S1: you know, as someone who is fully sighted. But I
S1: had a real passion for radio and I really wanted
S1: to talk to our community of interest and provide the
S1: information that they needed and wanted from the radio program. Yeah,
S1: it was really it was. I won't lie, there were
S1: times where I felt a little bit nervous and am
S1: I saying the right thing? Am I doing the right thing?
S1: But the thing that really helped me is that I
S1: actually listened to people, and I had someone like Stephen
S1: Jolly really supporting me and talking to me, like really
S1: mentoring me in those early months. Probably up to a year. Yeah.
S1: And it was great. Really fantastic. Yeah. Illuminating.
S2: I would say that's a wonderful word. And had you
S2: done much radio before you came into Vision Australia?
S1: Certainly well before Vision Australia, I had done some and
S1: I was still in a local Melbourne community radio station,
S1: so I had done some butt ploughing in, so it
S1: was a bit of a dream coming into Vision Australia radio. Yeah,
S1: and I wanted to do more.
S2: And certainly had the opportunity to do more with Talking Vision,
S2: as you mentioned, and allowing so many people to tell
S2: their stories. So what does it mean to be a
S2: storyteller from your side of things and allowing people to
S2: give their insights and their stories?
S1: Well, I don't know. It's just about to say nobody
S1: can tell your story the way that you can, like
S1: that person can, but sometimes you might need a little
S1: bit of help to tell your story and the platform
S1: to do that. And I think radio, you know, it's
S1: absolutely the perfect place. I'm also a writer, so I
S1: you know, I like helping writing people's stories as well.
S1: And I think storytelling is so important because it's it's
S1: about that lived experience, isn't it? Yeah. And you want
S1: to be able to believe that person saying that.
S2: You've been involved not only in talking vision, but quite
S2: a few other programs such as Hear This and. Author
S2: author over the years, with quite a heavy involvement from
S2: the Vision Australia library, but also a close association with
S2: Francis Keeland, one of the people we mentioned earlier in
S2: the interview, people coming back into it. So what's that
S2: been like to blend that love of radio and love
S2: of writing and literature?
S1: Oh well, an amazing place. Vision Australia, is that it
S1: has a library and a radio station. The two big
S1: love of my life. And now I'm wondering why am
S1: I leaving then? So I became when I was a
S1: coordinator of volunteers, I actually was in a show called
S1: Tropical Island and that was on Saturday nights. And that
S1: was all different topics where we read about that. So
S1: that was great. And I was also already involved with
S1: Francis Keelan when she was doing here this. So it's
S1: just exciting because I get to talk to authors as well.
S1: Like I can't speak more highly of it and fun.
S1: It's been really great and I hope it's been well
S1: received by the listening audience because we're having a good
S1: time doing it and we think it matters. And hopefully
S1: it does matter.
S2: I'm sure it does. I'm certain there's a lot of
S2: people out there that absolutely love to hear these programs.
S2: They're very well received. I'm sure we've had a lot
S2: of wonderful feedback. And, you know, that comes directly into
S2: your work with the library outside of radio, with so
S2: many events and so many books and conversations that have
S2: gone on over the years. So what's it been like
S2: to work with the library team as somebody who does
S2: love literature so much?
S1: Oh, well, like I was saying, it's on a par
S1: with working with the radio team. And what I love
S1: about the library is that they're really open to doing
S1: so many great events. So it's been a bit of
S1: a privilege. I feel like I've been in my role,
S1: so I'm in communications and marketing, but I've been really
S1: lucky in that I've been able to be in radio
S1: and in library and in marketing and comms. So I
S1: feel like I've, you know, worked across the gamut. Yeah.
S2: You've done the whole package for sure. Um, and let's
S2: go back to when you came in to Talking Vision
S2: after you had been mentored by Stephen Jolly and all
S2: you'd learned from that, and then you passed that information
S2: on to me 4 or 5 years ago when I
S2: came in as a.
S1: Young youngling.
S2: Career start, graduate and, um, you know, jumped into the
S2: world of radio. And that's something I'd been involved with
S2: in student broadcasting for quite a few years. But yeah,
S2: it's just been wonderful to learn everything I know from you.
S2: And it wouldn't be the same show without you. So
S2: that's one of the things I wanted to do today,
S2: is to thank you for all you've contributed to Talking Vision,
S2: both as a host and as a mentor.
S1: So I want.
S2: To make you cry, though. That's why I'm sort of
S2: don't want to go on about it too much. I
S2: don't want to make you cry on.
S1: No, no, I'm not gonna cry. That's really nice. And
S1: and I will say that as much as, you know,
S1: it was. I loved doing the show and, you know,
S1: loved talking to people who are blind or have low vision.
S1: And I felt very welcomed by the community, our listening audience.
S1: And I knew that you needed a radio person behind
S1: the mic. I really thought, I want the next person
S1: to do the show to be blind or have low vision.
S1: And then I saw you and went, right, okay.
S2: Yeah. And it's been a whirlwind. It's been a roller coaster.
S2: It's been a wild ride. It's with the, you know,
S2: all the euphemisms. Well, the handover happening during Covid, that was. Yeah,
S2: that was a bit of a challenge. But we got
S2: through it together so you know. Yeah. Oh yeah.
S1: Well if you're going to learn something, go in the
S1: deep end.
S2: Oh absolutely. For sure. Now I'm going to throw a
S2: bit of a tricky one at you Stella. Now having
S2: done so many interviews over the years, do you have
S2: a favorite?
S1: I knew you were going to ask me this. I
S1: don't want to say a favorite just in case, but
S1: for me, I really like I still remember my first one,
S1: one of the if not the first interview I did.
S1: They were doing trials of the Bionic Eye and I
S1: think it was Doctor Lauren Ayton. In fact, I know
S1: it was. And they had a woman who was blind
S1: and she was participating in the trials as well. It
S1: was just it was just an amazing conversation. I just
S1: loved it. And I thought because it was it was
S1: about science and it wasn't something I was familiar with
S1: as well. And the person who was blind and talking
S1: about it, she was so excited and they both had
S1: this amazing connection as well. So that was a favorite
S1: one because it was one of the first ones. It was.
S1: So completely different from anything I had known. And then
S1: other favorite ones is when I have been talking to, um,
S1: younger people as well and hearing their resilience. There was
S1: one young woman I spoke to, she lost her vision
S1: in a workplace accident, and, uh, she had been living
S1: in rural Australia and she had to move to the city,
S1: which because, well, she actually wanted to as well, but
S1: there were more, uh, opportunities. And she was able to
S1: get around a little bit better. Um, so that was
S1: a bit of a favourite one too, like there's been
S1: so many and hearing about, of course, the Braille music
S1: camp that I love, and it's really the ones where
S1: people are just getting on with their lives and kind of,
S1: you know, forging ahead and making a difference to their
S1: lives and to other people's lives.
S2: And that's palpable when they have that excitement about what
S2: they're doing and they're so engaged. And that also makes
S2: our jobs easier as interviewers, when you get people come
S2: in and they absolutely they're so passionate about what they're doing,
S2: what they're involved with, and that really rubs off on
S2: the interview. But also that goes out to the listener,
S2: of course. And that just makes for such wonderful radio. And,
S2: you know, being able to enable people to tell those
S2: stories as we've mentioned. So, you know, that's an absolute
S2: highlight for sure.
S1: Yeah, that's that's a great word palpable, isn't it? I
S1: think my least favorite ones are probably, you know, sighted politicians.
S1: I remember one federal election talking to one particular politician
S1: who's no longer in politics. And even at that time
S1: I thought, yeah, I really don't like you, but you
S1: have to, you know, you can't you cannot go in
S1: with the audience knowing what's going on in your head
S1: as well. Yeah. And I can say, I don't think
S1: I've ever had an argument with anybody on talking vision. No, no.
S1: Maybe behind the scenes.
S2: Yeah, maybe. Maybe off air. It depends. But you know,
S2: there's been other interviewers and other radio veterans that both
S2: of us have worked quite closely with. You talk about
S2: politics there. And that's where Peter Greco comes in as
S2: a name who's really rubbed shoulders with quite a few
S2: politicians and grilled them to, you know, yeah, as, as
S2: much as you can do in a friendly way. But
S2: he really sort of gets to the bottom of things
S2: and makes sure he gets the answer well.
S1: After he's in a bit of a fortunate position too,
S1: because he's, well, one that's the nature of his show,
S1: but also as a volunteer, whereas I'm a staff member
S1: and I have to, you know, I can't be putting
S1: people offside as such. Not that Peter does, but Peter
S1: talks to everyone and pretty much the same way in
S1: a very grounded kind of he doesn't stand on ceremony
S1: as such. No. Yeah. No. He's someone good to aspire
S1: to be like. Yes.
S2: Yeah, absolutely. And that's where one of the influences has
S2: come hopefully through my stint in Talking Vision, getting influences from,
S2: of course, you and Stephen, but also having listened to
S2: Peter and the way that he carries out his interviews
S2: as a radio veteran of over three decades, which I
S2: just think, oh my God, he doesn't like to talk
S2: about it because he's just, as you said, so grounded. Yeah.
S2: And he doesn't want to talk about himself, and that's fine.
S2: But he's just such a wonderful person, as you said,
S2: to aspire to. But finally, Stella, is there a message
S2: that you want to end our conversation with? Do you
S2: want to sort of give our listeners a bit of a, um, well,
S2: not so much a I wouldn't say final because, you know,
S2: it's not final. Well, not my eulogy. No, certainly not.
S2: But just to wrap up with, do you have something
S2: that you'd like to sort of let our listeners know
S2: on just a message for them?
S1: Yeah, I'd just like people to know how much I
S1: have loved working at Vision Australia and being a part
S1: of Vision Australia Radio, how much I have loved being
S1: on air and how much I have such respect for. Look,
S1: I'm just going to say it for blind people and
S1: for people with low vision. I think you're all fantastic.
S1: I always have a soft spot, and that may sound
S1: very patronising because you're not. People aren't all the same,
S1: but forever in my heart as such. Yeah. And thank
S1: you very much for listening to me over the years
S1: and for putting up with me as well, and for
S1: all the fantastic feedback I've received.
S2: Oh well, it's been a pleasure, Stella, to listen to
S2: your programs, but also for me to be so heavily
S2: involved as the host now and having, as I said,
S2: learned so much.
S1: Oh, Sam, you're a champion. You're a champion.
S2: I won't go on too much about it because I
S2: think we'll start bawling. So I think we'll have. So
S2: wrap it up for this stellar. It's been an absolute
S2: pleasure to catch up with you today as always, and
S2: all the best for the future.
S1: Thank you so much, Sam.
S2: I'm Sam Kelly and you're listening to Talking Vision on
S2: Vision Australia Radio. Associated stations of the Reading Radio Network
S2: and the Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed my
S2: conversation there with Stella as she heads off from Vision
S2: Australia after 15 years. We wish her all the best
S2: in her future endeavours and can't wait to see her
S2: back on talking vision down the track. So fingers crossed.
S2: Let's see what happens. And now we switch roles and
S2: take a bit of a trip back in time. As
S2: Stella interviews Lauren and Dianne, who were both involved in
S2: the bionic ear trials back in 2015.
S1: With me today is doctor Lauren Ayton, Bionic Eye clinical
S1: research team leader and research fellow at the Department of Ophthalmology,
S1: University of Melbourne, and also Doctor Dianne Ashworth, Deakin University
S1: Social Work Department, Faculty of Health in Geelong. And Lauren
S1: Ayton is giving her research update of the bionic eye
S1: and Dianne is the trial participant. Hello Lauren and Dianne
S1: and thanks for coming on today.
S4: Hi, Stella. Hi, Stella. It's a pleasure to be with you.
S1: Just very quickly, just to set the scene. Lauren, what
S1: does bionic mean?
S4: It's an excellent question. It's. It's sort of a word
S4: that really evokes the idea of the $6 Million Man,
S4: doesn't it? Um, but Biomedical bionics really is the field
S4: of research where we're trying to develop different devices that
S4: can restore parts of our body that don't work properly.
S4: So things like the cochlear implant for hearing impairment or
S4: prosthetic limbs, if you've lost a leg or an arm,
S4: for example, an injury. And so the bionic eye is
S4: a similar sort of thing. So we're trying to use
S4: our electronic device to give back some sight to people
S4: who have lost their vision.
S1: There are two types of bionic eye. Or this bionic
S1: eye is a very specific one related to the retina.
S4: Yeah. That's right. There's actually a whole lot of different
S4: groups working on bionic eyes. There's about 35 different groups
S4: around the world now, and everyone uses slightly different technology.
S4: So there are devices which the electrodes that we use
S4: to give back vision go into the eye. And then
S4: there are some groups where the electrodes go into the brain.
S4: So there's a group at Monash University that are doing
S4: that type of device. So the one that we have
S4: tested recently where Di was one of our wonderful participants,
S4: is a device that goes into the eye, but it
S4: actually goes in behind the retina. So it's a very
S4: safe location and very easy to get to surgically.
S1: Diane, what vision do you have?
S5: I have retinitis pigmentosa or RP. Uh, so I have
S5: lightened up perception. Um, so and I have only had
S5: light and dark perception for about, oh, just over 20 years, 21,
S5: 22 years. So, um. Yeah.
S1: And what could you see with the bionic eye?
S5: Um, spots of light, um, which the scientists called phosphenes. Um,
S5: they were supposed to be, you know, like all these
S5: lovely little circle spots, but they weren't. And I'm one
S5: of three participants, so, um, I was the first one to, um, uh,
S5: I suppose be switched on is what they call it. So. Yeah,
S5: just to even find out whether it was going to
S5: work or not. But yeah, these spots of light would
S5: come off, um, the implants in my left eye. So
S5: where I would see the phosphenes is in my right eye. So, um. Yeah,
S5: vision Lauren can fill that in, but vision seems to
S5: be always upside down and back to front. It was
S5: an amazing experience. Um, I don't know how much you
S5: want me to go into here, but, um, I yes,
S5: it's going to be something that's going to be, I think,
S5: useful in the future.
S1: Uh, what was the commitment involved in.
S5: 18 months at first. And then they asked, would I
S5: extend for another six months? So all in up it
S5: was two years. So, uh, for the first 18 months
S5: was one day a week. And and then after that,
S5: it was two days a week. I came in and
S5: got tested. So it was, you know, quite a, I suppose,
S5: a commitment in my time. And. Yeah, it's funny, I'll
S5: give you a little bit of a human side of it.
S5: It's I was testing a lot in the, the booth
S5: in the Bionic Institute in Melbourne, and it's actually where
S5: all the cochlear implant stuff was done as well. And
S5: so we'd be testing thresholds and things like that and
S5: quite laborious stuff that we had to do. So I thought, okay,
S5: we need to, you know, bring a little bit of
S5: this in. So in come the chocolates. So, so there'd
S5: be chocolates, you know I. Oh, we did well in
S5: that one. Okay, get the chocolates out. But, yeah. No, look,
S5: there was a lot of stuff that had to go
S5: through and a lot of, you know, a lot of
S5: hard work. And the three of us, the three participants,
S5: put a lot of hard work into it.
S4: So I'm sorry to interrupt. I was going to say, like,
S4: I just yeah, just to confirm that it was amazing.
S4: So all three of these people came in, gave up
S4: their time for at least 1 or 2 days a week. And,
S4: and it was really sort of. Yeah, like I said,
S4: quite laborious testing. So we didn't know anything about how
S4: this device worked. So the testing was very basic, very repeated.
S4: And they did brilliantly.
S1: So what what were some of the laborious tests that
S1: you had to do?
S5: Well, one of the I think the three of us, um,
S5: you know, loved this is sarcasm. Um, it's called, uh,
S5: testing the threshold now and what it is like, you know, safety, safety,
S5: safety was, you know, the main key of all this,
S5: this testing as well, you know, what's going to be
S5: safe for use and that. So I had no qualms about,
S5: you know, me being put into danger and that. But
S5: to test it, the lowest level that phosphenes could be
S5: detected so that, you know, understanding, you know, at that
S5: lowest level of, um, I'm going to say electricity or
S5: stimulation that, you know, it needed to be for sight.
S5: So and that was quite had to concentrate a lot
S5: because I've got all swirls in my eyes. And if
S5: people have got PP, they'll probably go, yes, I've, I
S5: um and and when the stimulation would come, sometimes it
S5: was hard to tell whether it was the stimulation or
S5: whether it was, you know, the swirls in my eyes
S5: that were, that were, you know, reacting in some sort
S5: of way. So I actually said to them, you know,
S5: at one point, because I didn't want to give any
S5: false information, it all had to be, you know, what was,
S5: you know, correct in that. So I'd say, oh, maybe.
S5: And they go, yep. Okay. Yeah. So they used to
S5: interpret that, you know, is it like we went through
S5: a lot of a lot of repeating and that is,
S5: you know, to get, you know, the results at the
S5: end of it. So I'm actually very proud to have
S5: been a part of it from when I first saw
S5: the Phosphenes you do think, oh, you know, what are
S5: these all about? You know, um, as the testing goes on,
S5: you know, you're working through, you know, you first off, um,
S5: it's called psychophysics. Um, so they sent the, the stimulus
S5: through directly through the, the wires into the implant, then that, um,
S5: graduated onto using a camera. So the information from the
S5: camera camera would then, um, you know, go through all
S5: the mechanisms and stimulate the electrodes in the eyes. And
S5: it was this day I can remember, um, you know,
S5: using the camera, moving my head around, and, um, and
S5: I just said, oh, I forgot the camera was there.
S5: And I felt like the information that I was seeing
S5: was coming through my eye. And I'll never forget that feeling.
S5: It just it was like, um, yeah. It was like
S5: it was becoming normal. Um, and my brain was just
S5: getting so used to the information. So a part of
S5: it is learning what you're seeing, I think, and really,
S5: you know, connecting to that, that thing as a normal
S5: part of, of what you're seeing.
S1: We see emotion involved with that.
S5: Look. There's been I wouldn't say emotion as such, but
S5: there's there's been I feel warm even thinking about it.
S5: It's sort of like gives this warm feeling in your heart.
S5: It's it's just maybe information that your brain just, you know,
S5: loves to get. I don't know, I have no, you know,
S5: I don't know the answers, but I know when I
S5: see the phosphene the first day when I saw them,
S5: it's like, oh, you know, there was one that, um, well,
S5: they sent in this, um, stimulation that, you know, because
S5: they thought, yeah, you beauty this is working. So it
S5: went through and it sort of lit up the whole
S5: array of that's what it seemed to me of, of
S5: the phosphenes. And I just went, wow, you know, and
S5: Nikki was in the booth, said, he said, is that
S5: wow good or wow bad? And I said, that's wow good.
S5: It just like I said, the feeling is, um, it's
S5: hard to describe, but it's a it's a really wonderful feeling.
S1: Diane the Bionic eye is now turned off. Yeah. Would
S1: you turn it back on? Would you do all this again?
S5: Yes, yes I would for the part. Look, look in
S5: two ways I would, because when I started with this
S5: research I never thought, you know. Oh yes, yes, I'm
S5: doing this because I really want a bionic eye. I
S5: did it to help the researchers and, you know, and
S5: and be a part of something that's exciting as well. Um,
S5: being a part of it has shown me that there
S5: is going to be use for the bionic eye, particularly
S5: in the software and the different elements that Australia is,
S5: is developing, I think. Yeah, like I say, there's going
S5: to be real use in in what is there. So
S5: I would put my hand up to help with the
S5: research again. But I'd also put my hand up, um,
S5: you know, later on for the full device.
S1: I've been speaking with Doctor Lauren Ayton, who's Bionic Eye
S1: Clinical research and research fellow, the Department of Ophthalmology, and
S1: doctor Dianne. And Ashworth, who was the trial participant in
S1: the research. Thank you both so much for your very
S1: important work in this area and for your commitment to
S1: the research as well. And thank you for your time today.
S5: Thanks, della.
S4: Thank you. Stella.
S2: And that's all the time we have for today. You've
S2: been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision
S2: Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the
S2: show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you.
S2: So please get in touch any time on our email
S2: at Talking Vision. At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all
S2: one word at Vision Australia. Org but until next week
S2: it's Sam Colly saying bye for now.
S1: You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us any time
S1: during business hours on one 308 4746. That's one (300) 847-4106
S1: or by visiting Vision Australia. Org that's Vision australia.org.