WEBVTT - Talking Tech 23rd July 2024 0:00:21.318 --> 0:00:25.038 Hello everyone. Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition, available from 0:00:25.038 --> 0:00:29.298 July the 23rd, 2024. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have 0:00:29.298 --> 0:00:32.778 you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated 0:00:32.778 --> 0:00:36.708 stations of RPA Australia or perhaps the Community Radio Network. 0:00:36.708 --> 0:00:39.408 There is also the podcast. To catch that, all you 0:00:39.408 --> 0:00:42.168 need to do is search for the two words. Talking, 0:00:42.198 --> 0:00:45.078 tech and download can all come usually on a Tuesday 0:00:45.078 --> 0:00:48.418 afternoon just after it's been produced with me. Someone who 0:00:48.418 --> 0:00:51.628 can explain all this tech stuff really well. Vision Australia's 0:00:51.658 --> 0:00:57.148 national advisor on access technology, David Woodbridge. David, let's start 0:00:57.148 --> 0:01:00.478 with the Product Minute segment where we talk about Vision 0:01:00.478 --> 0:01:05.098 Australia's Vision store. And a point that you suggested we 0:01:05.098 --> 0:01:08.788 cover today is that the store is perhaps of interest 0:01:08.788 --> 0:01:11.548 to more people than many of us might realise. realize. 0:01:11.818 --> 0:01:17.248 Exactly. My wife works in an optometrist. Now, what do 0:01:17.248 --> 0:01:20.968 you assume in optometry? Who deals in glasses and, you know, 0:01:20.968 --> 0:01:23.908 eye checking? Everything else would would actually have more things 0:01:23.908 --> 0:01:27.778 in their shop than just glasses and so on. And 0:01:27.778 --> 0:01:30.538 the fact of the matter is that they don't. So 0:01:30.538 --> 0:01:32.878 if you're looking for things like, you know, a little 0:01:32.878 --> 0:01:37.568 manual magnifier or let's say a magnifier. It's got a 0:01:37.568 --> 0:01:41.798 torch in it or extra magnification or things to make things, 0:01:41.798 --> 0:01:45.578 you know, the old three B's bigger, bolder, brighter. Then 0:01:45.578 --> 0:01:48.698 you're not going to find that at an optometrist. However, 0:01:48.698 --> 0:01:51.938 the vision store and I want to make an exclamation 0:01:51.938 --> 0:01:56.468 on on mark on the word vision. That's exactly what 0:01:56.468 --> 0:01:58.778 we do. Of course, all the other stuff for blind 0:01:58.778 --> 0:02:01.628 people as well. But as far as vision goes, we've 0:02:01.628 --> 0:02:05.288 got all the stuff that anybody would need. And there 0:02:05.288 --> 0:02:06.968 was that classic thing we used to run in the 0:02:06.968 --> 0:02:10.688 late 90s was when glasses don't help and that's when 0:02:10.688 --> 0:02:14.498 you need extra magnification. Things need to be bigger, bolder, brighter, 0:02:14.498 --> 0:02:18.038 all that sort of fantastic stuff. And that's exactly where 0:02:18.038 --> 0:02:20.498 the vision store goes in, because sometimes, you know, for 0:02:20.498 --> 0:02:22.538 us have been around for a long time, we associate 0:02:22.538 --> 0:02:26.478 Vision Store or Vision Australia with the Old Royal Blind Society, 0:02:26.478 --> 0:02:29.658 Royal Victorian Institute for the blind. And you sort of 0:02:29.658 --> 0:02:30.948 think in the back of your head, well, well, maybe 0:02:30.948 --> 0:02:33.078 it's sort of, you know, more for blind people than 0:02:33.078 --> 0:02:36.378 people who have just general vision issues. But it's not 0:02:36.378 --> 0:02:42.678 it's equally important for both people with, you know, party sidedness, blindness, 0:02:42.678 --> 0:02:46.518 but also just that niggling thing where you think, oh my, 0:02:46.728 --> 0:02:49.858 my glasses just aren't strong enough or I just can't 0:02:49.858 --> 0:02:51.988 see enough contrast, or I just can't do this and 0:02:51.988 --> 0:02:54.838 I just can't do that. I can't use the telephone anymore. 0:02:54.838 --> 0:02:57.268 All those little things. So what do you reckon? 0:02:57.268 --> 0:03:00.628 Visit one of our stores or start with the website? 0:03:00.628 --> 0:03:03.448 No, I would certainly start with going into the vision store, 0:03:03.448 --> 0:03:05.308 because then you can actually talk with staff that are 0:03:05.308 --> 0:03:08.278 there and you can get your hands on things and 0:03:08.278 --> 0:03:10.498 literally try them out, because for low vision in particular, 0:03:10.498 --> 0:03:13.018 or for people who've got vision issues, it's really good 0:03:13.018 --> 0:03:15.088 to try things out. Maybe then when you've had a 0:03:15.088 --> 0:03:16.498 bit of a look around the store, that's when you 0:03:16.498 --> 0:03:19.498 would go onto the shop Vision Australia. Org website, but 0:03:19.498 --> 0:03:21.988 I would certainly visit. I think we've got 23 stores 0:03:21.988 --> 0:03:25.288 around Australia. Uh, pop in, have a look, have a play, 0:03:25.288 --> 0:03:27.928 have a chat and then see what you can do 0:03:27.928 --> 0:03:28.528 after that. 0:03:28.528 --> 0:03:33.808 Shop Vision Australia. Org is the website for Vision Australia's 0:03:33.808 --> 0:03:38.738 Vision store. Now last Friday afternoon, I turned the radio 0:03:38.738 --> 0:03:41.528 on for the first time in about two hours because 0:03:41.528 --> 0:03:45.818 I was doing other stuff and the broadcaster said, we're 0:03:45.818 --> 0:03:51.788 bringing you coverage of the global IT outage. Well, like 0:03:51.788 --> 0:03:54.128 anybody else who put their radio on about the same time, 0:03:54.128 --> 0:03:57.848 I was astounded. Just explain what happened. 0:03:57.878 --> 0:04:00.428 A good old Australia because we were the first to 0:04:00.428 --> 0:04:05.538 actually encounter the the global outage. Uh, so windows computers 0:04:05.538 --> 0:04:08.148 that were in a corporate environment. So, you know, an 0:04:08.148 --> 0:04:13.998 enterprise environment started displaying the dreaded blue screen of death. 0:04:13.998 --> 0:04:18.048 And once that happens, you know that, um, you're at 0:04:18.048 --> 0:04:20.478 the end of the line. And lots of people tried 0:04:20.478 --> 0:04:23.898 to restart their computers and it still wouldn't work. And then, 0:04:23.898 --> 0:04:27.888 of course, everyone originally thought there'd been a cyber attack. And, 0:04:27.888 --> 0:04:29.298 you know, it's going to be the end of the 0:04:29.328 --> 0:04:32.028 end of the world. Or most like things were just 0:04:32.028 --> 0:04:35.808 quite awful. But as we found out late afternoon on 0:04:35.808 --> 0:04:40.128 Friday that it was actually a buggy updated file from 0:04:40.128 --> 0:04:45.528 a company called CrowdStrike, who a cyber security company, to prevent, 0:04:45.528 --> 0:04:48.318 you know, malicious things happening to your computer. So one 0:04:48.318 --> 0:04:51.508 of the control files had a bug in it. And 0:04:51.508 --> 0:04:58.618 unfortunately for Microsoft Windows operating system, uh, that file completely 0:04:58.618 --> 0:05:01.708 stuffed up the whole operating system, to put it bluntly. 0:05:01.858 --> 0:05:08.128 And you had to wait until CrowdStrike actually released a 0:05:08.128 --> 0:05:11.698 fix for it. And what they've been saying over the 0:05:11.698 --> 0:05:16.348 weekend and what they're even saying, um, yesterday, Monday and today, 0:05:16.348 --> 0:05:20.398 Tuesday is absolutely do not try and fix this yourself 0:05:20.398 --> 0:05:23.248 because you'll probably get yourself in more water or hot water, 0:05:23.248 --> 0:05:26.158 as the case may be. Uh, wait for your IT 0:05:26.158 --> 0:05:30.298 department to contact you. You really do have to log 0:05:30.298 --> 0:05:33.598 in again to your network, on your proper network, in 0:05:33.598 --> 0:05:37.738 your enterprise. And then normally an identified person, if you 0:05:37.738 --> 0:05:40.118 don't have a local IT support identified person in your 0:05:40.118 --> 0:05:44.138 workplace will then go through the fixes. And of course 0:05:44.138 --> 0:05:46.658 for us that are blind and low vision and rely 0:05:46.658 --> 0:05:49.988 on access technology, there is no way that you could 0:05:49.988 --> 0:05:53.708 even try and do it with your own access technology, 0:05:53.708 --> 0:05:56.978 because this is part of the boot sequence into the system. 0:05:56.978 --> 0:05:59.318 So it's not the fact that Jaws or Zoomtext would 0:05:59.318 --> 0:06:02.558 even be running. Um, so again, you'll have to wait 0:06:02.558 --> 0:06:05.498 for sighted support, uh, to intervene. 0:06:05.498 --> 0:06:07.778 Let's hope everybody's back to normal now. But it was 0:06:07.778 --> 0:06:12.518 amazing that around the world it affected health systems. Um, finance, 0:06:12.518 --> 0:06:14.738 travel media was amazing. 0:06:14.798 --> 0:06:18.278 Correct. And I did see a a message from the 0:06:18.278 --> 0:06:21.578 ministry with this sort of stuff over the weekend. And 0:06:21.578 --> 0:06:23.948 apparently we're seeing it's going to take about a week 0:06:23.948 --> 0:06:25.958 or two for things to come back to normal. So yeah, 0:06:25.958 --> 0:06:28.308 it was it was a bit of a taste of 0:06:28.308 --> 0:06:32.478 what could happen with, you know, a very serious issue 0:06:32.478 --> 0:06:34.818 that can bring things down like we just discussed. 0:06:34.818 --> 0:06:39.588 Now let's talk about a product called Biped Noah, a 0:06:39.588 --> 0:06:41.748 very interesting one that you've been playing with. 0:06:41.988 --> 0:06:44.298 Yes. Biped is actually the name of the company. So 0:06:44.298 --> 0:06:48.348 it's Biped Robotics. And the system itself is called Noah, 0:06:48.348 --> 0:06:54.298 which actually stands for navigation, obstacle detection and artificial intelligence. So, Noah, 0:06:55.438 --> 0:06:58.558 and if you can imagine wearing almost like a bit 0:06:58.558 --> 0:07:00.628 of a vest over your shoulders, so on the left 0:07:00.628 --> 0:07:02.518 hand side, on the top of your chest, you've got 0:07:02.518 --> 0:07:06.298 a camera module which contains nine cameras. On your right 0:07:06.298 --> 0:07:09.538 hand side, you've got another little control rectangular unit that's 0:07:09.538 --> 0:07:11.998 got your buttons to control it, and then it goes 0:07:11.998 --> 0:07:14.038 up and around the over your shoulders, round the back 0:07:14.038 --> 0:07:16.888 of your neck, and you've got a very lightweight battery. 0:07:17.128 --> 0:07:20.698 What it does is it's only interested in obstacles that 0:07:20.698 --> 0:07:23.608 you will collide with or that will collide with you. 0:07:23.608 --> 0:07:26.428 So if a fixed obstacle or obstacles that are moving 0:07:26.428 --> 0:07:30.058 towards you or away from you, um, it does have 0:07:30.058 --> 0:07:32.758 standard cane mode. It's also got a guide dog mode. 0:07:32.758 --> 0:07:35.758 And one thing that I've always wanted, uh, two things 0:07:35.998 --> 0:07:40.138 in mind to do with is it does holes and 0:07:40.138 --> 0:07:42.458 it does stairs. And when I say holes, it also does. 0:07:42.458 --> 0:07:46.058 It is a platform that railway stations properly. Uh, it'll 0:07:46.058 --> 0:07:47.948 tell you about stairs, whether they're going up or down. 0:07:47.948 --> 0:07:50.678 And by the way, this is all audio. Um, so 0:07:50.678 --> 0:07:53.528 it's not saying there's stairs there, but by the audio 0:07:53.528 --> 0:07:56.168 tones you're getting back from the system, you know what 0:07:56.168 --> 0:07:58.448 those are. And the app that comes with it actually 0:07:58.448 --> 0:08:02.018 teaches you about these different sounds, which once you've done 0:08:02.018 --> 0:08:04.028 the training is pretty amazing. 0:08:04.028 --> 0:08:06.428 So did you find it sort of comfortable using it? 0:08:06.428 --> 0:08:09.038 You were getting useful information from it, I did. 0:08:09.038 --> 0:08:13.328 I found the obstacle detection amazing. The artificial intelligence function 0:08:13.328 --> 0:08:16.748 was also pretty incredible as well. Um, it's currently being 0:08:16.748 --> 0:08:20.348 worked on overseas. I would say there's a high likelihood 0:08:20.348 --> 0:08:22.838 that Vision Australia will be selling it later on this year, 0:08:22.838 --> 0:08:26.018 but that's only a hoping one at the moment. So 0:08:26.018 --> 0:08:28.508 we'll see what happens. Because you're wearing this on your 0:08:28.508 --> 0:08:32.118 chest or over your shoulders. It's a very stable platform 0:08:32.118 --> 0:08:35.358 versus I always find it when I'm using smart glasses. 0:08:35.358 --> 0:08:36.918 I tend to always look down because I've, you know, 0:08:36.918 --> 0:08:39.258 I've been blind since I was eight, so that's always 0:08:39.258 --> 0:08:41.358 been an issue. But having it over your shoulders, it's 0:08:41.358 --> 0:08:43.638 a nice stable platform for the cameras to work properly. 0:08:43.638 --> 0:08:45.258 I guess it'll cost a fair bit. 0:08:45.258 --> 0:08:50.418 So it's €4,200 currently. So if we do indeed decide 0:08:50.418 --> 0:08:52.668 to sell it, I guess it's going to be between, 0:08:52.668 --> 0:08:55.348 I don't know, let's say around about $7,000 and let's 0:08:55.348 --> 0:08:56.848 see if it's a bit below or a bit above. 0:08:57.058 --> 0:08:57.358 Mhm. 0:08:57.808 --> 0:09:03.688 And it's called the Noah. Noah from Biped Robotics. Well 0:09:03.688 --> 0:09:05.008 watch out for that one David. 0:09:05.008 --> 0:09:06.478 Indeed. Stay tuned. 0:09:07.078 --> 0:09:12.958 Now there's a product called Ipx8 Ipx8 E which shall 0:09:12.958 --> 0:09:14.848 we say max up scammers. 0:09:15.058 --> 0:09:18.118 It does. So this was developed by some folks at 0:09:18.118 --> 0:09:20.488 Macquarie University. So I don't know if it's sort of 0:09:20.488 --> 0:09:22.618 deployed in the real world. They were just showing some 0:09:22.618 --> 0:09:25.798 examples of it. But what it does is it listens 0:09:25.798 --> 0:09:29.158 to the scammer in a core and effectively just wastes 0:09:29.158 --> 0:09:32.788 their time. So it does different types of phrases to 0:09:32.788 --> 0:09:35.818 what the person is saying. So, you know, and they've 0:09:35.818 --> 0:09:38.788 got different voices like an older person, a media middle 0:09:38.788 --> 0:09:41.968 aged person, etc., etc.. And so when the scammer says 0:09:41.968 --> 0:09:43.988 something like can you get your credit card for me 0:09:43.988 --> 0:09:47.918 because I'm here to fix your IT issue. Then you know, 0:09:47.918 --> 0:09:51.548 some of the systems go, oh, my credit card. Is 0:09:51.548 --> 0:09:53.648 that the same as my bank card? Because I don't 0:09:53.648 --> 0:09:56.438 know if I've got a credit card. And it'll just 0:09:56.438 --> 0:09:59.318 keep going on and on. And the different questions and 0:09:59.318 --> 0:10:03.248 the scammers, it'll do different things. So in effect, it 0:10:03.248 --> 0:10:07.748 actually tricks the scammer into just completely wasting their time. 0:10:07.748 --> 0:10:10.478 I'm reminded of the classic one where the scammer asks 0:10:10.478 --> 0:10:13.628 you to open windows and you say, ah, sorry, there 0:10:13.628 --> 0:10:15.068 are no windows in this room. 0:10:15.068 --> 0:10:17.438 The other one that I sometimes used is, oh hang on, 0:10:17.438 --> 0:10:20.618 I've got um, I've got about 13 windows. Which one 0:10:20.708 --> 0:10:23.168 should I open? And of course, they think you're talking 0:10:23.168 --> 0:10:24.878 about the computer. And what I'm really talking about is 0:10:24.878 --> 0:10:26.378 how many windows is actually in the main part of 0:10:26.378 --> 0:10:29.408 my house. So yeah, but look, it's a really good idea. 0:10:29.408 --> 0:10:31.728 And just as a matter of thing going back to 0:10:31.728 --> 0:10:36.258 our global internet outage. Please only talk to your proper IT. 0:10:36.258 --> 0:10:38.628 People don't think that people are going to ring you 0:10:38.628 --> 0:10:40.728 up and say, we've got a fix for you right 0:10:40.728 --> 0:10:44.058 now about CrowdStrike are going to be from reputable people 0:10:44.058 --> 0:10:45.468 because they won't be. Mhm. 0:10:46.518 --> 0:10:50.838 Um, let's talk about AI visual models now. They're blind. 0:10:50.838 --> 0:10:54.138 Yeah. This sounded really weird. And it caught my attention 0:10:54.138 --> 0:10:56.668 because I thought hey wait a minute there, how can 0:10:56.698 --> 0:10:58.918 they be blind when they're looking at imagery? Basically what 0:10:58.918 --> 0:11:02.308 it's talking about is the fact that when the systems 0:11:02.308 --> 0:11:06.688 get an image, they're comparing that image to a database 0:11:06.688 --> 0:11:11.128 of that what they've been trained upon. So that's when 0:11:11.128 --> 0:11:15.688 you get what they call the hallucination by AI systems 0:11:15.688 --> 0:11:19.108 that for some reason or another, it can't map what 0:11:19.108 --> 0:11:22.588 the image is to its database. And it was interesting 0:11:22.588 --> 0:11:24.568 because I was talking to a person during the week 0:11:24.568 --> 0:11:27.988 who's a data analysis type person and is working with 0:11:27.988 --> 0:11:31.438 AI and computer vision and everything else, and apparently there's 0:11:31.438 --> 0:11:35.518 a classic one where you can change one pixel in 0:11:35.518 --> 0:11:38.878 a picture of a bird and it becomes a camel. 0:11:38.878 --> 0:11:41.698 That's just a good thing to think about that when 0:11:41.698 --> 0:11:46.298 our systems do object recognition, as in that's a bus 0:11:46.298 --> 0:11:48.968 or that's a car or whatever else, take it with 0:11:48.968 --> 0:11:50.828 a grain of salt and a bit of common sense, 0:11:50.828 --> 0:11:55.838 because it's only matching the image, uh, to a database. 0:11:55.838 --> 0:11:59.678 It's not a real person going, yes, this is a 0:11:59.678 --> 0:12:02.078 so and so. And the other one example they had 0:12:02.078 --> 0:12:06.068 quickly was if you do separate rings like five rings, 0:12:06.068 --> 0:12:09.758 it'll get them. If you then cross over those rings slightly, 0:12:09.758 --> 0:12:13.118 it can't determine that there's still five circles on the page. 0:12:13.118 --> 0:12:17.918 So it's mapping what is detecting with something in a database. 0:12:17.918 --> 0:12:20.288 So if the two aren't exactly the same it's got 0:12:20.288 --> 0:12:21.818 no idea really what it is. Correct? 0:12:21.818 --> 0:12:24.188 Yeah. It's not like a us humans that can sit 0:12:24.188 --> 0:12:26.948 back and go, well hang on a minute. That's obviously intersecting, 0:12:26.948 --> 0:12:29.828 intersecting circles on a page. And yes, there's still five 0:12:29.828 --> 0:12:30.578 circles there. 0:12:30.698 --> 0:12:31.478 Um, you. 0:12:31.478 --> 0:12:34.878 Have some encouraging news for those who need to use 0:12:34.878 --> 0:12:36.768 a smartphone with one hand. 0:12:36.798 --> 0:12:39.468 Yes. And this is a good reminder because as phones 0:12:39.468 --> 0:12:42.378 get bigger. So we've got you know six plus inches 0:12:42.378 --> 0:12:44.718 diagonally phones now and you think well hang on a minute. 0:12:44.718 --> 0:12:47.808 If I'm using one hand like I've got my cane 0:12:47.808 --> 0:12:50.268 on my guide dog in my left hand, how can 0:12:50.268 --> 0:12:54.888 I possibly navigate my smartphone? Then there's an option where 0:12:54.888 --> 0:12:58.408 you can actually pull down the screen. And this is 0:12:58.408 --> 0:13:01.558 like from a sighted concept, but it's also accessible as well. 0:13:01.558 --> 0:13:03.358 You can pull down the top part of the screen 0:13:03.358 --> 0:13:05.398 to bring it down towards the bottom part of the screen, 0:13:05.398 --> 0:13:07.588 so then you can access all the icons on the 0:13:07.588 --> 0:13:10.918 screen at the same time, and you can find it 0:13:10.918 --> 0:13:15.628 in basically settings under both iOS and Android. And it's 0:13:15.628 --> 0:13:17.968 just a good reminder. So the link I've got in 0:13:17.968 --> 0:13:20.278 the show notes explains it how to do for vanilla 0:13:20.278 --> 0:13:25.018 Android and Samsung in particular. And of course the reachability 0:13:25.018 --> 0:13:28.468 function under Accessibility settings for your iPhone. 0:13:28.468 --> 0:13:32.038 It does work with VoiceOver or Talkback certainly does. 0:13:32.038 --> 0:13:33.808 So literally the way you use it quickly is that 0:13:33.808 --> 0:13:36.178 you would use, say, the bottom icons down the bottom, 0:13:36.178 --> 0:13:37.798 and you think, oh, I need to get to the 0:13:37.798 --> 0:13:39.748 back button at the top. Well, this is where you 0:13:39.748 --> 0:13:43.978 would perform the reachability function to pull those icons from 0:13:43.978 --> 0:13:45.958 the top of the screen down towards the bottom, and 0:13:45.968 --> 0:13:49.058 then you can reach exclamation mark the back button. Then 0:13:49.058 --> 0:13:51.458 that's basically effectively in the middle of the screen. 0:13:51.458 --> 0:13:54.608 Very interesting. Before we go, a reminder of where there 0:13:54.608 --> 0:13:56.768 are details of what we've been talking about in this 0:13:56.768 --> 0:13:58.778 and previous editions of the program. Indeed. 0:13:58.778 --> 0:14:00.458 So as always, you can check out my blog site, 0:14:00.458 --> 0:14:04.298 which is David Woodburn Podbean bad Ben. 0:14:04.298 --> 0:14:09.248 Com David would be our dot podbean pod b e 0:14:09.248 --> 0:14:11.798 a n.com to write to the program. 0:14:11.798 --> 0:14:14.198 You can write to me at Business Row where I work, 0:14:14.198 --> 0:14:17.408 which is David Woodbridge at Vision australia.org. 0:14:17.438 --> 0:14:22.268 David Woodbridge at Vision Australia. Org. This has been talking 0:14:22.298 --> 0:14:25.538 tech with me has been Vision Australia's national advisor on 0:14:25.538 --> 0:14:29.558 access technology David Woodbridge I'm Stephen Jolly. Take care. We'll 0:14:29.558 --> 0:14:31.058 talk more tech next week. See you.