WEBVTT - Talking Vision 786 Week Beginning 23rd of June 2025 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:18.920 From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's 0:00:18.919 --> 0:00:21.000 your host Sam Colley. 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:26.600 Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.600 for the next half hour we talk matters of blindness 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:30.640 and low vision. 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:34.120 Some of the organizations that we in Utopia talk to say, yeah, yeah, 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:36.800 we test our stuff with Nvda, but they know what 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:38.839 they can see on the screen so they know what 0:00:38.839 --> 0:00:41.439 is happening and should come out. Whereas if you get 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.279 somebody who relies on Nvidia, for instance, to run through 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.360 as a new user, if you like, then that experience 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.680 can be quite different from the tech person checking it. 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:53.680 And they wrote it and they know exactly what's inside 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:55.040 it and what to expect. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.039 Welcome to the program. This week we catch up with 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.560 Andrew Archer from Intopia, who you heard there. Now Intopia 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.800 has been involved with quite lengthy discussions with the Australian 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:13.400 Human Rights Commission around a recent set of updated guidelines 0:01:13.399 --> 0:01:18.480 regarding ways that digital resources can be made even more 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:24.520 accessible for users with disabilities, including blindness and low vision. 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.559 That conversation is coming up very shortly, so make sure 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.480 to stick around. And then after that, you'll hear from 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:37.080 optometrist Greeshma Patel, who's here to chat to us about 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:41.640 an eye condition known as presbyopia, as well as some 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.560 recent findings related to the condition. I hope you'll enjoy 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:54.440 this week's episode of Talking Vision. In recent weeks and months, 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.720 the Australian Human Rights Commission have updated their series of 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:05.210 guidelines regarding best practices for digital accessibility, often aligning with 0:02:05.210 --> 0:02:10.130 the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, but they go further than that. 0:02:10.130 --> 0:02:15.810 They also focus on making digital content and experiences perceivable, operable, 0:02:15.810 --> 0:02:21.690 understandable and robust for all users, including those with disabilities. 0:02:21.890 --> 0:02:26.330 And one of the organizations that was central to giving 0:02:26.330 --> 0:02:30.210 their feedback and insights on how to make the guidelines 0:02:30.210 --> 0:02:34.290 as effective as possible was Intopia. And it's my great 0:02:34.290 --> 0:02:39.570 pleasure to welcome Andrew Arch from Intopia, their principal digital 0:02:39.570 --> 0:02:45.050 accessibility consultant, to Talking Vision. Andrew, welcome to Talking Vision. 0:02:45.050 --> 0:02:46.890 Thank you very much for your time. 0:02:47.330 --> 0:02:48.530 Thank you for inviting us. 0:02:49.010 --> 0:02:52.650 Now firstly, Andrew, let's go to the heart of things 0:02:52.690 --> 0:02:56.810 and have a bit of a chat about the guidelines themselves. 0:02:56.810 --> 0:02:58.730 So tell us about the guidelines. 0:02:58.970 --> 0:03:03.210 Guidelines have been updated by the Australian Human Rights Commission 0:03:03.210 --> 0:03:07.250 because it was recognised that the previous version and we 0:03:07.290 --> 0:03:10.210 were up to version 4.1, I think it was, um, 0:03:10.210 --> 0:03:14.330 we're ten years, 11 years old now and their title 0:03:14.330 --> 0:03:17.570 gives that away. They were called, um, access for under 0:03:17.570 --> 0:03:19.770 the World Wide Web. We don't even call it the 0:03:19.770 --> 0:03:23.970 World Wide Web anymore, just the web. But digital accessibility 0:03:24.010 --> 0:03:28.290 has become all pervasive, or digital access has become all pervasive. 0:03:28.330 --> 0:03:31.650 You know, we've got apps, we've got software, we've got 0:03:31.650 --> 0:03:36.130 all sorts of social media platforms. Everything you do requires 0:03:36.130 --> 0:03:38.370 you to have some sort of nearly everything you do 0:03:38.410 --> 0:03:41.090 requires you to have some sort of digital access these days. 0:03:41.290 --> 0:03:43.650 And so it was in recognition of that all pervasive 0:03:43.650 --> 0:03:47.890 requirement for digital access that made the commission look at it. 0:03:47.890 --> 0:03:50.650 It's time to update this from just the World Wide Web, 0:03:51.170 --> 0:03:54.010 which is sort of where we got started with digital 0:03:54.010 --> 0:03:58.090 stuff in many respects some decades ago to digital is everywhere. 0:03:58.330 --> 0:04:01.770 That was the the driver for putting this update together. 0:04:02.010 --> 0:04:07.940 And the commission approached us in late 2023. Well, they 0:04:07.940 --> 0:04:10.700 put it out to tender and we were the people 0:04:10.700 --> 0:04:14.180 who were selected to do that in late 2023 to 0:04:14.220 --> 0:04:18.300 develop this update, which was released in April this year. 0:04:18.300 --> 0:04:21.020 So it took about an 18 month time frame to 0:04:21.220 --> 0:04:24.140 write those and go through all the consultation processes and 0:04:24.180 --> 0:04:25.380 review processes. 0:04:25.700 --> 0:04:29.940 Tell us a bit about those processes, Andrew, and specifically 0:04:29.980 --> 0:04:35.860 your and Netapp's involvement with the composers of the guidelines 0:04:35.860 --> 0:04:39.779 and with the Commission and your feedback and insights. 0:04:40.180 --> 0:04:43.700 A couple of us in Intopia had been working on 0:04:43.700 --> 0:04:50.020 a pro-bono version of this for a couple of years prior, primarily, um, 0:04:50.020 --> 0:04:53.060 put together by a group of people, um, being run 0:04:53.060 --> 0:04:55.779 by Greg Allchin from Service New South Wales. Some of 0:04:55.780 --> 0:04:59.020 you listeners may know of Greg Olsen, and in fact, 0:04:59.020 --> 0:05:00.700 you know, he'll be an interesting person for you to 0:05:00.700 --> 0:05:02.500 get on board in terms of all the work he's 0:05:02.500 --> 0:05:05.380 done inside the New South Wales Government to drive digital 0:05:05.380 --> 0:05:08.180 accessibility there. Be worth a chat at some stage if 0:05:08.180 --> 0:05:12.620 you get that opportunity. But the commission said we haven't 0:05:12.620 --> 0:05:14.580 got a formal process here. We need to create a 0:05:14.580 --> 0:05:18.700 formal process for updating the note rather than this piecemeal. Yes, 0:05:18.700 --> 0:05:21.300 it might get done. Process. So we we had a 0:05:21.500 --> 0:05:24.980 draft that we'd been participating in, um, to work with 0:05:24.980 --> 0:05:27.300 when the commission decided it needed to go to market 0:05:27.300 --> 0:05:31.340 to formalise the whole process. And Intopia was engaged to 0:05:31.380 --> 0:05:35.180 write the document, basically. So we had a starting point 0:05:35.180 --> 0:05:37.780 with that material that Greg Olsen had put together. But 0:05:37.780 --> 0:05:41.339 we also worked with the commission to say, okay, what 0:05:41.340 --> 0:05:43.420 did they want to see in it and how should 0:05:43.420 --> 0:05:47.099 it be structured? So we were in fact, we ended 0:05:47.100 --> 0:05:50.420 up drafting some of the earlier legal stuff as well, 0:05:50.420 --> 0:05:53.220 but that went through a lot of internal review and 0:05:53.220 --> 0:05:57.460 rewriting inside the commission, and we took responsibility to write 0:05:57.460 --> 0:06:00.180 the more technical side, the more standard side, the more 0:06:00.180 --> 0:06:05.390 how should organisations do this? So that process took, as 0:06:05.390 --> 0:06:08.550 I said, 18 months overall. And so, you know, one 0:06:08.550 --> 0:06:10.150 of the things that we did was we set up 0:06:10.150 --> 0:06:13.430 some advisory groups to two different advisory groups, one looking 0:06:13.430 --> 0:06:16.790 at the technology side and one looking at the impact 0:06:16.790 --> 0:06:20.510 on the user. So we had a some representative user representatives, 0:06:20.510 --> 0:06:24.150 people who relied on technology and having it accessible, as 0:06:24.150 --> 0:06:29.190 well as some organizations that represented people with disability. So 0:06:29.190 --> 0:06:31.710 we had people who sort of do the technical stuff 0:06:31.710 --> 0:06:34.230 and people who rely on on the outcome of that 0:06:34.510 --> 0:06:38.030 as two different technical advisory, two different advisory groups. The 0:06:38.030 --> 0:06:41.310 commission was also inputting into the process, particularly, as I said, 0:06:41.350 --> 0:06:43.670 on the legal side, but they were relying on us 0:06:43.710 --> 0:06:46.510 and the advisory groups to sort of write the what 0:06:46.510 --> 0:06:49.030 should be included, when should it be considered? We also 0:06:49.070 --> 0:06:51.910 went out for a public comment at one point and 0:06:51.910 --> 0:06:56.430 got quite some quite good feedback on that. Interestingly, some 0:06:56.430 --> 0:06:58.670 of the comment that came back in the public feedback 0:06:58.670 --> 0:07:01.590 was tell us exactly what to do. Well, these are 0:07:01.590 --> 0:07:04.910 guidelines and we can't tell everybody exactly what to do, 0:07:04.950 --> 0:07:08.070 they need to make that decision by themselves. But, you know, 0:07:08.110 --> 0:07:10.190 that was one of the bits of feedback that was 0:07:10.190 --> 0:07:13.870 interesting but not surprising to get. We went through probably 0:07:13.870 --> 0:07:18.750 6 or 7 drafts overall throughout that process and some restructuring, 0:07:18.790 --> 0:07:21.310 as we worked out better ways to present a better 0:07:21.310 --> 0:07:23.470 order to present it. The commission had quite a bit 0:07:23.470 --> 0:07:25.910 of input into that, and so we ended up breaking 0:07:25.910 --> 0:07:29.070 it up into three different chapters. You know, one that's 0:07:29.070 --> 0:07:31.630 more looking at the legal stuff, one that was looking 0:07:31.630 --> 0:07:34.830 at the more broadly how to and then one that 0:07:34.830 --> 0:07:37.350 final chapter that was looking at, okay, what are the 0:07:37.350 --> 0:07:42.870 standards um, from standards Australia, from government, from industry and 0:07:42.870 --> 0:07:45.350 other things that people should be looking at to adhere 0:07:45.350 --> 0:07:47.790 to the idea of breaking it up into those three 0:07:47.790 --> 0:07:50.870 sections was that we hope it as a modular set 0:07:50.870 --> 0:07:55.070 of guidance. It can be updated more frequently. And, you know, 0:07:55.110 --> 0:07:57.310 that's that's the problem with the law. Now, the law 0:07:57.350 --> 0:08:01.870 doesn't mention because it's 1992 pre-digital pre-web, unless you happen 0:08:01.870 --> 0:08:04.600 to be working in SRO, CSIRO or in university at 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.840 the time. It's very hard to update the law. It's 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.960 much easier to update guidance under the law. So the 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.200 Commission is hopeful that it'll be able to keep this 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.560 more up to date. The way that we structured this 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.840 set of guidelines versus the way that the previous notes 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.760 about the World Wide Web accessibility had been written. That's 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:22.280 sort of the process that we went through. 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:28.320 Fair enough. And Andrew, what's been the biggest advantages from 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.360 Interpares point of view that have come out of the 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.640 new iteration of the guidelines? What's been the most pleasing aspect? 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.439 I think the way that we've called it out, because 0:08:39.479 --> 0:08:42.800 a lot of people talk about the web content accessibility guidelines, 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.880 which are sort of the international standard that we all 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.559 start with and say, yeah, but that only applies to 0:08:47.599 --> 0:08:50.879 online services to our websites and our web services. I 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.800 think the big thing here is that through this, the 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.800 commissioner has called out that this applies not just to 0:08:56.839 --> 0:09:00.800 anything online with a browser interface, but to digital books, 0:09:00.839 --> 0:09:06.559 learning materials, emails, games, mobile applications, even. You know, we 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:11.000 call that things like two factor authentication, that type of issue. Um, 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.640 virtual reality, you know, extended reality, augmented reality as we 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.160 call it, digital wallets, anything that touches digital and has 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.559 a digital interface of some sort to it through a 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.880 screen is in scope of the DDA and calling that 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.240 out so that people can't say, oh, the Web content 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.999 Accessibility guidelines are just about web. Yep. Okay. We don't 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.080 need to worry about them for this. So, you know, 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.400 we're also getting, you know, organizations saying, you know, we 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.480 also need to look at the stuff we've got internally 0:09:36.479 --> 0:09:39.679 in our organization to support our staff, like the HR system, 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.759 the payroll system, and so on. So that's that's some 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.439 of the changes that we see being a big win 0:09:46.479 --> 0:09:47.400 across the board. 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.439 Andrew, I'd love to focus on a bit of a 0:09:50.439 --> 0:09:54.439 blindness and low vision aspect. In particular, I want to 0:09:54.439 --> 0:09:57.920 talk about the advances in things like jaws, things like 0:09:57.959 --> 0:10:02.730 zoom text, things like Nvda, all those sort of magnification 0:10:02.729 --> 0:10:07.890 screen readers, and also guidelines around alt text and image descriptions. 0:10:07.890 --> 0:10:11.530 What's been the big things from that side of thing 0:10:11.530 --> 0:10:14.889 that people can look forward to reading about more in 0:10:14.890 --> 0:10:19.290 the guidelines, given the advances in 11 years, with all 0:10:19.290 --> 0:10:21.489 those sort of little bits and pieces. 0:10:21.530 --> 0:10:24.129 Oh, a lot of that software has come a long way, 0:10:24.250 --> 0:10:27.570 and some of it's starting to use AI now, artificial 0:10:27.569 --> 0:10:30.569 intelligence built into it, which is an advantage but also 0:10:30.569 --> 0:10:33.650 a disadvantage. The other flip side of that is the 0:10:33.650 --> 0:10:37.849 way that some organizations are using plug ins to try 0:10:37.849 --> 0:10:41.529 and solve their accessibility problem, that rely on artificial intelligence 0:10:41.530 --> 0:10:45.329 and artificial intelligence in that respect isn't mature enough. But 0:10:45.329 --> 0:10:48.410 from the assistive technology side of it, you know, one 0:10:48.410 --> 0:10:51.449 of the things that we're seeing and that we've emphasised 0:10:51.449 --> 0:10:54.729 in this new guidance is that it's not just about 0:10:54.729 --> 0:10:57.890 getting it technically right, it also has to work for users. 0:10:58.130 --> 0:11:02.569 So making sure that people or encouraging strongly encouraging people 0:11:02.569 --> 0:11:06.770 to undertake usability testing with people with. With disability who 0:11:06.770 --> 0:11:10.769 are using assistive technologies. I mean, some of the organizations 0:11:10.770 --> 0:11:13.170 that we in Edutopia talk to say, yeah, yeah, we 0:11:13.170 --> 0:11:15.809 test our stuff with Nvda, but they know what they 0:11:15.809 --> 0:11:17.969 can see on the screen so they know what is 0:11:17.969 --> 0:11:20.689 happening and should come out. Whereas if you get somebody 0:11:20.689 --> 0:11:24.410 who relies on Nvidia, for instance, to run through as 0:11:24.410 --> 0:11:27.730 a new user, if you like, then that experience can 0:11:27.729 --> 0:11:31.130 be quite different from the tech person checking it. And 0:11:31.130 --> 0:11:33.089 they wrote it and they know exactly what's inside it 0:11:33.089 --> 0:11:35.770 and what to expect from, you know, how the screens 0:11:35.770 --> 0:11:38.290 were put together, how the text was written, how the 0:11:38.290 --> 0:11:40.490 services are meant to be interacted with. They've got that 0:11:40.490 --> 0:11:43.050 inside knowledge. That means that they're not testing it, even 0:11:43.050 --> 0:11:44.849 though they might be running a screen reader over it. 0:11:44.849 --> 0:11:47.370 They're not testing it to the extent that means that 0:11:47.370 --> 0:11:50.170 it's usable by somebody. They just testing that. Yep. I'm 0:11:50.209 --> 0:11:52.809 getting the right sort of output here from what I expect, 0:11:52.809 --> 0:11:55.849 which is very, very different from doing usability testing. So 0:11:55.849 --> 0:11:59.090 one of the things that the guidelines are saying also 0:11:59.130 --> 0:12:01.780 is you've got to consider accessibility from the start of 0:12:01.780 --> 0:12:04.260 a tech project. And you've got to make sure that 0:12:04.260 --> 0:12:06.979 after you've got it technically correct, you've tested it, that 0:12:06.979 --> 0:12:09.179 it's actually usable, and then you've got to make sure 0:12:09.179 --> 0:12:12.819 that all your maintenance considers accessibility as well, because we've 0:12:12.819 --> 0:12:16.020 always seen, you know, over time, you know, little tweaks happen, 0:12:16.059 --> 0:12:19.219 pages get rewritten, an image gets changed, and the alt 0:12:19.260 --> 0:12:22.099 text is not updated, for instance. Um, you know, it 0:12:22.099 --> 0:12:24.499 still talks about on the florist site, the roses for 0:12:24.500 --> 0:12:27.739 Valentine's Day, whereas they've changed it over to chrysanthemums for 0:12:27.740 --> 0:12:30.260 Mums Day, but didn't change the the alt text saying, 0:12:30.260 --> 0:12:33.420 you know, red roses versus white chrysanthemums, that type of 0:12:33.500 --> 0:12:36.540 thing we're talking now about in these guidelines about the 0:12:36.540 --> 0:12:40.939 whole entire length of the project from conception to maintenance 0:12:40.939 --> 0:12:44.620 or even retirement. So that's from the assistive tech perspective 0:12:44.660 --> 0:12:48.179 that becomes important that those considerations are considered early, not 0:12:48.179 --> 0:12:52.339 just the technical risk considerations, but then those, um, assistive 0:12:52.380 --> 0:12:55.100 tech are tested not just by somebody who knows what 0:12:55.099 --> 0:12:57.300 the product should do, but by people who are going 0:12:57.339 --> 0:12:59.859 to rely on using that assistive tech to interact with 0:12:59.859 --> 0:13:01.140 that organization. 0:13:01.179 --> 0:13:04.939 I'd love to touch back on that discussion you're having 0:13:04.939 --> 0:13:09.500 before about the increased modularity and the increased flexibility of 0:13:09.500 --> 0:13:15.380 these new guidelines in terms of being more receptive and 0:13:15.459 --> 0:13:19.459 being able to react in quicker time to advances in 0:13:19.459 --> 0:13:25.020 digital access, in assistive technology and technology more broadly, really. 0:13:25.339 --> 0:13:30.099 So from your perspective, what's the biggest things for people 0:13:30.099 --> 0:13:33.540 to be aware of? Organizations in charge of things like 0:13:33.540 --> 0:13:37.260 these guidelines to be aware of in upcoming months and 0:13:37.260 --> 0:13:41.179 years relating to these areas of accessibility? 0:13:41.380 --> 0:13:45.819 Australia tends not to develop too many standards for accessibility 0:13:45.859 --> 0:13:49.500 through standards Australia. What we tend to do, because we're 0:13:49.500 --> 0:13:53.860 a small player internationally is adopt some of the international standards. 0:13:53.859 --> 0:13:55.860 And so one of the standards that we adopted back 0:13:55.859 --> 0:13:59.459 in 2016 for the first time was something called accessibility 0:13:59.459 --> 0:14:03.429 requirements for ICT products and services. So that's a standard 0:14:03.429 --> 0:14:07.789 that has gone through various iterations under Standards Australia through adoption. 0:14:07.790 --> 0:14:12.189 And we've updated that adoption half a dozen times, probably 0:14:12.349 --> 0:14:15.070 maybe five times since we first adopted it, because the 0:14:15.069 --> 0:14:18.950 Europeans have updated their version. So by having that in 0:14:18.990 --> 0:14:21.749 a separate chapter in this document means that we can 0:14:21.750 --> 0:14:24.990 refer to the latest versions of this which are going 0:14:24.990 --> 0:14:28.749 to stand up, make things more accessible, because rather than 0:14:28.790 --> 0:14:32.270 relying on something that might have been hardwired, if you like, 0:14:32.270 --> 0:14:36.030 into the guidelines, hopefully, you know, those chapters that are 0:14:36.030 --> 0:14:40.110 about best practice can be updated more frequently as practice 0:14:40.109 --> 0:14:44.670 changes and expectations change. But then the chapters that refer 0:14:44.670 --> 0:14:48.229 to both government standards and international standards that we've adopted, 0:14:48.229 --> 0:14:51.190 that should be the underpinning for what people meet, as 0:14:51.190 --> 0:14:54.630 a minimum, will also be updated on a regular basis, 0:14:54.630 --> 0:14:57.470 so that we can make sure that those can be 0:14:57.510 --> 0:15:01.430 kept current, rather than referring to wcaG two, for instance, 0:15:01.430 --> 0:15:04.790 which has gone through wcaG 2.1 and wcaG 2.2 over 0:15:04.790 --> 0:15:06.590 the last ten years as well. And, you know, the 0:15:06.590 --> 0:15:08.350 note wasn't kept up to date because of the way 0:15:08.350 --> 0:15:11.790 it was written. So that modularity, we hope, will enable 0:15:11.790 --> 0:15:13.310 the Commission to keep this current. 0:15:13.670 --> 0:15:17.950 Now finally, Andrew, what's the best way for people to 0:15:17.990 --> 0:15:21.150 find out more about the guidelines or have a look 0:15:21.150 --> 0:15:26.110 through some other resources that are available for people through 0:15:26.150 --> 0:15:29.430 intopia around digital accessibility. 0:15:29.830 --> 0:15:33.470 So in conjunction with the Commission, we put together a 0:15:33.470 --> 0:15:36.590 page of resources, and that page of resources would allow 0:15:36.590 --> 0:15:39.950 people to go and actually listen to Rosemary, the Disability 0:15:39.990 --> 0:15:43.269 Discrimination Commissioner, talking about the guidelines on the day that 0:15:43.270 --> 0:15:46.270 they were released. We ran a webinar. We then ran 0:15:46.270 --> 0:15:49.110 a webinar about a month later asking people to come 0:15:49.109 --> 0:15:51.310 and ask some questions, because we didn't have the time 0:15:51.310 --> 0:15:53.350 in the first webinar to do that. So both of 0:15:53.350 --> 0:15:57.190 those are recorded and are available from our resources page 0:15:57.430 --> 0:16:00.600 at intopia. That's probably the best starting point, and it 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.880 points to the commissioner's press release as well as to 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.280 the guidelines as well as to some other resources. So 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.640 that's probably the best place to go and have a look. 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.720 But if you go straight to the Human Rights Commission's 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:15.200 homepage and go to disability rights, you'll find the guidelines 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:19.400 themselves there. And they've been published in HTML, in word 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.880 and in PDF in an accessible well, as accessible as 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.080 PDF can be and accessible PDF. So depending on whether 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.040 people want to download and have a print copy, or 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.280 they want to read them online and how they want 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.840 to do that, there's three different formats there for people 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:33.560 to read. 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:38.920 Perfect. Well, I've been speaking today with Andrew Arch, principal 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:45.200 digital accessibility consultant at Intopia, about the guidelines on equal 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.759 access to digital goods and services. Andrew, thank you very 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.400 much for your time today. It's been great to catch 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.960 up with you and have a chat about the guidelines. 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.920 Great, and hopefully we can do something similar in the future. 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.879 I'm Sam Corley and you're listening to Talking Vision on 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:12.520 Vision Australia Radio. Associated Stations of Reading Radio and the 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:17.560 Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that conversation there 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.959 with Andrew Arch from Intopia. If you missed any part 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.320 of that conversation with Andrew or you'd love to hear 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:29.240 it again. Talking vision can be found on the Vision 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:36.760 Australia Radio website. Simply head to Viva Radio. That's all. 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.960 One word dot. Or you can find the program on 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.280 the podcast app of your choice or through the Vision 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.720 Australia library. New research shows that nearly three quarters of 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:52.720 Australians aged 35 to 50 have never heard of a 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:57.879 common age related eye condition called presbyopia, which is likely 0:17:57.879 --> 0:18:04.090 causing their vision issues. Individuals rely on temporary fixes to cope. 0:18:04.129 --> 0:18:10.410 Masking the condition and delaying timely diagnosis and treatment. Optometrists 0:18:10.409 --> 0:18:13.970 are urging people to watch out for workarounds and if 0:18:13.970 --> 0:18:18.290 they find themselves enlarging text, holding print at arm's length, 0:18:18.330 --> 0:18:22.570 or having trouble seeing the dashboard when driving, particularly at night, 0:18:22.690 --> 0:18:26.050 it's time to book an eye test and to have 0:18:26.050 --> 0:18:30.650 a chat with me all about this. I have Greeshma Patel, 0:18:30.690 --> 0:18:36.409 Specsavers optometrist, here to tell us all about presbyopia and 0:18:36.409 --> 0:18:40.570 the new research Greeshma. Welcome to Talking Vision. Thank you 0:18:40.570 --> 0:18:42.330 very much for your time today. 0:18:43.050 --> 0:18:43.890 Thanks, Dan. 0:18:44.570 --> 0:18:48.290 Now, firstly, Greeshma, can you tell us more about the 0:18:48.290 --> 0:18:50.290 new research findings? 0:18:50.810 --> 0:18:55.530 So Specsavers have done a national survey which has recently 0:18:55.530 --> 0:18:59.250 found that a really common eye I condition that affects 0:18:59.250 --> 0:19:02.570 adults is actually something that a lot of adults aren't 0:19:02.570 --> 0:19:07.450 aware of. Up to 72% of adults don't realize that 0:19:07.450 --> 0:19:11.570 they're going through these midlife changes when they occur. So 0:19:11.850 --> 0:19:16.369 I want to draw attention today to the fact that presbyopia, 0:19:16.409 --> 0:19:19.090 which is this eye condition that affects a lot of 0:19:19.090 --> 0:19:23.330 people around 40 years old, is quite normal. And I 0:19:23.369 --> 0:19:25.810 want to go through some points on how to look 0:19:25.810 --> 0:19:27.330 out for it and what to do if you start 0:19:27.330 --> 0:19:28.330 noticing symptoms. 0:19:28.850 --> 0:19:33.729 What are the risks associated with undiagnosed presbyopia? 0:19:34.129 --> 0:19:37.370 So I'll start by explaining what presbyopia is, and then 0:19:37.369 --> 0:19:39.889 we can have a look at the risks. Because presbyopia 0:19:39.889 --> 0:19:44.050 is essentially when your lens inside the eye just doesn't 0:19:44.050 --> 0:19:46.609 work as well when it's trying to focus on a 0:19:46.609 --> 0:19:49.570 near object. So what that means is your long distance 0:19:49.570 --> 0:19:52.170 vision may still feel good, and you may still see 0:19:52.210 --> 0:19:54.970 things clearly. But when you go to pick up your 0:19:54.970 --> 0:19:57.090 phone to read or you pick up a book, you 0:19:57.090 --> 0:19:59.780 may notice that your vision isn't as clear or as 0:19:59.780 --> 0:20:02.459 comfortable as it used to be. Now, the risks associated 0:20:02.460 --> 0:20:06.740 with presbyopia if it's undiagnosed, untreated, if we're not doing 0:20:06.740 --> 0:20:08.939 anything about it and we're just putting up with this 0:20:08.940 --> 0:20:12.740 strain when we're reading, is that possibly you misread your 0:20:12.740 --> 0:20:17.100 medication labels? You may misread ingredients when you're at the supermarket, 0:20:17.139 --> 0:20:20.460 and especially with certain contrast on labels, if you're not 0:20:20.460 --> 0:20:22.620 looking at black on white, if you're looking at white 0:20:22.619 --> 0:20:25.379 writing on a colored label, you may find that you 0:20:25.379 --> 0:20:28.260 make mistakes. So those people that have allergies or sensitivities 0:20:28.260 --> 0:20:31.219 that are trying to avoid certain ingredients in foods could struggle. 0:20:31.260 --> 0:20:35.419 But I'd say more importantly, it's medication bottles and important instructions. 0:20:35.419 --> 0:20:38.979 If you can't read, you'd be struggling and mistakes happen there. 0:20:39.340 --> 0:20:44.380 And greeshma what are some common misconceptions or some signs 0:20:44.379 --> 0:20:49.300 that often lead people to overlook conditions like presbyopia? 0:20:49.820 --> 0:20:51.899 So I see this all the time, Sam. So a 0:20:51.899 --> 0:20:55.860 lot of misconceptions about presbyopia and other eye conditions is 0:20:55.859 --> 0:20:58.700 that if I go to see my optometrist because I'm 0:20:58.700 --> 0:21:01.580 having this problem with reading. I'll end up getting glasses 0:21:01.580 --> 0:21:04.259 and they will make my eyes worse. And that's not true. 0:21:04.540 --> 0:21:08.140 So glasses can't make your eyesight worse. In fact, something 0:21:08.139 --> 0:21:12.220 like presbyopia is a condition that occurs with or without intervention. 0:21:12.220 --> 0:21:15.739 So the lens goes through natural changes as we age. 0:21:15.780 --> 0:21:18.700 And unfortunately, I have to use that term, even though 0:21:18.700 --> 0:21:21.740 we're talking about this happening in our 40s, the lens 0:21:21.740 --> 0:21:24.060 starts to harden. In fact, it starts hardening a little 0:21:24.100 --> 0:21:26.260 bit before that. But a lot of my patients will 0:21:26.260 --> 0:21:29.260 notice that they're struggling to see things around the time 0:21:29.300 --> 0:21:32.300 of their 40s. And this is a working age group. 0:21:32.460 --> 0:21:35.460 So people that are using computers, they're reading documents, they're 0:21:35.500 --> 0:21:38.379 on their phones and they're looking at detail. If we're 0:21:38.379 --> 0:21:41.500 not picking up on these signs and symptoms early, it 0:21:41.500 --> 0:21:44.300 slows you down at work. And it's where mistakes are made. 0:21:44.300 --> 0:21:46.780 And it's just a harder day and actually ultimately can 0:21:46.780 --> 0:21:50.020 cause headaches. But the most common misconception around this is 0:21:50.020 --> 0:21:53.460 if I start wearing glasses, it's a downward slippery slope 0:21:53.460 --> 0:21:55.660 and I'm going to need glasses forever, and it's going 0:21:55.659 --> 0:21:57.790 to make my eyes worse. And I just want to 0:21:57.790 --> 0:21:58.709 dispel that myth. 0:21:59.190 --> 0:22:03.750 Greeshma why is it so important to have regular eye tests, 0:22:03.790 --> 0:22:06.629 especially as Australians do get older? 0:22:06.909 --> 0:22:10.070 So two parts of that, Sam actually. So Australia is 0:22:10.109 --> 0:22:12.389 a place that we have a lot of UV exposure 0:22:12.430 --> 0:22:14.550 and a lot of the time from childhood years. So 0:22:14.590 --> 0:22:17.350 with a lot of UV exposure comes the risk of 0:22:17.350 --> 0:22:21.149 developing UV related conditions. And with the eyes we're talking 0:22:21.149 --> 0:22:25.790 about early stages of cataracts or macular degeneration. These are 0:22:25.790 --> 0:22:29.909 conditions that can be exacerbated by UV exposure. So over time, 0:22:29.950 --> 0:22:33.510 it's important to understand your risk and understand whether these 0:22:33.510 --> 0:22:36.469 have impacted the eyes, whether it has impacted the eyes. 0:22:36.750 --> 0:22:40.750 Things like smoking can cause premature problems with eyes as well, 0:22:40.909 --> 0:22:45.470 and certain health conditions like diabetes. So having these tests done, 0:22:45.510 --> 0:22:48.189 having your eyes tested from an early age, even before 0:22:48.190 --> 0:22:51.630 you start noticing symptoms is really useful because if there 0:22:51.629 --> 0:22:55.310 is something to monitor, we can do that in optometry now, 0:22:55.430 --> 0:23:00.510 especially at Specsavers, we offer 3D retinal scan called Oct scanning, 0:23:00.710 --> 0:23:05.550 which is really useful in the diagnosing and detecting eye 0:23:05.590 --> 0:23:08.669 conditions a lot earlier than if we were just to 0:23:08.950 --> 0:23:10.989 not present grotesque, but certainly if we were to use 0:23:10.990 --> 0:23:14.510 traditional methods. So things like glaucoma and macular disease can 0:23:14.510 --> 0:23:17.350 be picked up a lot sooner. Just need to present yourself. 0:23:17.350 --> 0:23:20.109 And eye tests are bulk billed these days, so there's 0:23:20.109 --> 0:23:22.710 no charge, no cost to you. Just popping in for 0:23:22.710 --> 0:23:25.509 a test for clarinet is useful, and especially if you're 0:23:25.510 --> 0:23:28.550 having symptoms, don't hang about. Go and get your eyes tested, 0:23:28.550 --> 0:23:30.830 because sometimes what seems as though it could be a 0:23:30.830 --> 0:23:35.230 very simple focusing problem could actually be an underlying eye condition. 0:23:35.270 --> 0:23:37.190 And this is where we want to pick these things 0:23:37.190 --> 0:23:37.990 up early. 0:23:38.030 --> 0:23:42.350 On that note. Finally, grishma, where can Australians go to 0:23:42.389 --> 0:23:45.230 learn more? Or to book an eye test. 0:23:45.629 --> 0:23:49.710 So you can pop onto our website Specsavers. Com.au. A 0:23:49.710 --> 0:23:52.789 list of common eye conditions are on their stores that 0:23:52.790 --> 0:23:55.790 you can book in for an eye examination. An opportunity 0:23:55.830 --> 0:23:57.560 to talk to cut your Medicare card in there. So, 0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:00.159 you know it's going to be bulk billed and there's 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:03.320 probably a Specsavers close to you wherever you are or 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:07.240 within reasonable distance. So hopefully we're widely accessible. So pop 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:09.279 in when you can. And if you're walking past a 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:11.239 practice and you're not sure if you'll get that chance 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:13.879 again because you're busy, just pop in on the off chance. 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:20.600 Well, I've been speaking today with Grishma Patel, optometrist at Specsavers. 0:24:20.639 --> 0:24:25.359 Chatting to me today about presbyopia and the ways that 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:28.680 it can be treated. Greeshma thank you so much for 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:31.520 your time today. It was great to catch up with you. 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:32.640 Thank you Sam. 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:39.199 For the first time, people across Australia are participating in 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:43.560 a national survey radio and you designed to capture the 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:48.600 real impact of community radio. The results will inform discussions 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:53.639 with government decision makers, helping to secure future support and 0:24:53.639 --> 0:24:59.040 funding for the entire community broadcasting sector. If you're a 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:03.040 listener to Vision Australia Radio or any other community radio 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:07.240 organisation and you'd love to have your say, this is 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:11.960 the perfect opportunity to do so. Simply head to the 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:17.399 Vision Australia Radio Facebook page and Search Radio and you 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:21.240 to find out all about the survey and the link 0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:26.120 to take part. The survey closes on the 30th of June, 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.800 so you still have a few days to have your 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:33.159 say and get involved. Any support you can offer would 0:25:33.159 --> 0:25:37.359 be fantastic. So make sure to spread the word if 0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:41.240 you haven't taken part in the survey already. Also, jump 0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:44.840 in and have your say and let people know who 0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:48.359 might also be interested to have their say about the 0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:59.249 future of community radio in 2025. And that's all the 0:25:59.250 --> 0:26:03.290 time we have for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. 0:26:03.690 --> 0:26:08.009 Talking vision is a Vision Australia radio production. Thanks to 0:26:08.050 --> 0:26:12.410 all involved with putting the show together every week. And remember, 0:26:12.409 --> 0:26:15.129 we love hearing from you. So please get in touch 0:26:15.129 --> 0:26:20.170 anytime on our email at Talking Vision at Vision Australia dot. 0:26:20.730 --> 0:26:25.889 That's talking vision all. One word at Vision Australia. But 0:26:25.889 --> 0:26:29.449 until next week it's Sam Culley saying bye for now. 0:26:32.889 --> 0:26:36.970 You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during 0:26:36.970 --> 0:26:44.850 business hours on one 384 746. That's one 384 74 0:26:45.369 --> 0:26:50.290 six or by visiting Vision Australia. That's Vision Australia.