S1: From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's
S1: your host, Sam. Colleague.
S2: Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
S2: for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness
S2: and low vision. Welcome to this special holiday edition of
S2: Talking Vision. Today we feature two interviews from the year
S2: just gone, starting off with Matt Foremost and the star
S2: of surfing in the dark, the first book in the
S2: three part Big Vision series, which launched earlier this year.
S2: Matt joined me along with his mum Lorraine to catch
S2: up just after the book launched and you'll hear from
S2: him once more very shortly. Then, after you hear from
S2: Matt and Lorraine, I spoke with Nicole Lee, president of
S2: people with Disabilities Australia, who I caught up with early
S2: in October following the publication of the final report from
S2: the Disability Royal Commission on the 29th of September. I
S2: hope you enjoyed this special holiday episode of Talking Vision.
S2: I began the interview with Matt by asking him about
S2: the motivation behind surfing in the dark and why he
S2: got involved.
S3: Very honoured and grateful that Vision Australia reached out to
S3: me to to be part of the series, to sort
S3: of showcase my life and some of the, I suppose,
S3: the ups and the downs that I've had. But um,
S3: why wouldn't I be involved? It's such, such an honour
S3: to be part of this, to be featured in the
S3: first ever book in Australia that features both text, images
S3: and Braille. Um, it's simply an honour and I'm just
S3: grateful to be a part of it.
S2: And let's go back to the very beginning, when you
S2: sort of got involved with surfing at a very young age,
S2: but you're also grappling with the vision loss diagnosis at
S2: age five. What was that like to sort of be
S2: balancing all the active things you were doing with, you know,
S2: rugby and surfing and what have you, and being an
S2: active little boy, but also with the vision loss, what
S2: was that like to cope with?
S3: I mean, it was it was challenging. But I think,
S3: you know, all anything in life you can look at
S3: as a challenge or as easy. But when my mum's
S3: here with me today, my family, her and my dad
S3: would was not about your blind. You can't do that.
S3: It was let's just do it. And if there's a problem,
S3: we'll work it out. So that was what the focus wasn't.
S3: Wasn't on the fact that I was blind and there
S3: was challenges. The focus was more on what do you
S3: want to do? Just like my siblings and friends. So, um,
S3: I didn't focus on it too much, to be honest.
S3: I was just focusing on having fun and playing with
S3: my friends.
S2: And so, Lauren, what was that whole time period like
S2: for you as well as a mum? You'd probably have
S2: a few worries and things here and there about, oh,
S2: you know, what's going to happen and like, what can
S2: Matt do? But it's also a credit to you and
S2: the family for saying, you know, Matt can do this.
S2: There was never that whole phrase of Matt can't do that,
S2: Matt can't do this. And I think that really speaks
S2: to me. And it's something really important to spread that
S2: message as well.
S4: Well, I was asked when Matthew was diagnosed at five,
S4: the district nurse rang me and said, do you want
S4: to come and talk about it? And I said, no,
S4: Matthew's very capable child. I'll just go along with him.
S4: And when he has problems, then we'll talk about it.
S4: And Matthew was so adept at everything. We never got
S4: to that conversation.
S2: Oh that's wonderful. That's really good to hear. So also, Matt,
S2: I just want to come back to you now. One
S2: of the main purposes of the book is to help
S2: children who are blind or have low vision, understand that
S2: living with blindness or low vision doesn't have to be
S2: a barrier to achieving their goals. And it's really important
S2: for people with lived experience of blindness or low vision
S2: to have that representation in children's materials. Was that another
S2: reason as to why you did get involved?
S3: Well, I'm just sort of honored to be part of it.
S3: It was as soon as I was asked to be
S3: part of this, I said yes, and I'm just privileged
S3: to be part of it. But, I mean, obviously, I'm
S3: very honoured that my story is being showcased. There's so
S3: many stories, I think, of people with blindness and low
S3: vision in Australia and globally that could showcase resilience and
S3: could showcase the can spirit and not focus on can't. Um, so,
S3: you know, I just want to acknowledge that, you know,
S3: I'm very privileged that my story has been showcased and
S3: that there are lots of other stories that could have
S3: been in that situation. And, look, I take it as
S3: a great privilege, but also as a responsibility to, you know,
S3: help educate the next generation that it's not all gloom.
S3: There are just if you want to do something, you
S3: can do it. You just have to find a way,
S3: and your way might be a bit different to somebody
S3: else's way. And that's just not. That's not just because
S3: you're visually impaired, that this could be because you live
S3: further out of town. We're all different as human beings. And,
S3: you know, we all have to approach things in different ways.
S2: And, Matt, we've talked about the importance from within the
S2: blind and low vision community, but there's also perceptions from
S2: the general public that still do need to be changed
S2: a little bit about what people who are blind or
S2: have low vision can achieve. So what sort of experiences
S2: have you had from that side of things with sort
S2: of people, from the general public having certain perceptions of
S2: what you can and can't do? Is that sort of
S2: come across your wavelength at any point?
S3: Yeah, a lot. As a businessman, I work in, in
S3: the corporate space for, for a ICT organisation, but I
S3: also sit on a few boards and I'm obviously heavily
S3: involved in as an ambassador in multiple disability sectors. But
S3: I think there's two parts to it. There's the community
S3: at large and large organisations not understanding what blindness is
S3: and and what it isn't. But there's also, I think,
S3: a lot of misconception within the blind and low vision
S3: community around what is possible. So and I think they
S3: both need to be addressed. The peace around, um, the
S3: community at large understanding is really tricky. And I think this,
S3: this book series is a great step towards educating people
S3: as to, you know, it showcases someone that goes surfing
S3: and cycling. Um, someone who's, who's who's a chef and
S3: uses feel and and smell and someone who's an artist
S3: and makes beautiful garments using texture and feel. And I
S3: think it's showcasing the benefits of the disability that is
S3: really important to help the community. It's also to, to
S3: showcase to to organizations that are employing people with disabilities.
S3: I mean, I grew up not being able to read.
S3: I'd never learnt Braille. So I went and I went
S3: through mainstream schooling in the 80s, which was not done
S3: at the time. But because of that, I listened and
S3: ask questions through my whole education. So by the time
S3: I had finished school, I had a 20 year degree
S3: in sales. I've been asking and listening, you know, so
S3: I think we're not going to be very successful in sales.
S3: And my corporate career and my counterparts just could not
S3: have had the experience that I have in, in, in
S3: listening and asking questions, which I was forced to attain
S3: because of my disability. So I think if we focus
S3: more on what the benefits of, of our diversity. So
S3: because we're different and we have a, uh, one of
S3: our parts doesn't work, it means that we have to
S3: make other parts work better. And if we can showcase
S3: that to the community and to corporates and to anywhere
S3: we're going in life and focus on the positives, I
S3: think that's the way forward. And I think this book
S3: series is a great way to start that conversation.
S2: And Lorraine will come to you. Now, what sort of
S2: things do you have to say about, you know, the
S2: importance of letting your son or daughter, who might have
S2: low vision if there's parents out there listening and the
S2: sort of maybe at the early stages of working through
S2: diagnosis and what it all means, what do you have
S2: to say, I guess, around that.
S4: Well, I just think that experiencing everything. So as Matthew said, textiles. Well,
S4: even just going out and feeling nature and being so going, walking,
S4: allow them to be in the park and going like
S4: walking or climbing or all those things, so that even
S4: with low vision that they can just feel and not being,
S4: I think as a parent it is very scary for
S4: them and the unknown, like, what is this child going
S4: to do? Like we were told Matthew wouldn't be able
S4: to drive a car. He'd never have much of an education.
S4: He'd never play sport. Well, that all was wrong, but
S4: that's what we were told. Um, so I think you've
S4: got to.
S3: Drive a car.
S4: I know he will in the future, get a car
S4: that drives itself.
S2: That's right. I'm looking forward to that day. Yeah.
S4: Um, so my feeling is just you as a parent
S4: can feel what's right and give the child as much
S4: opportunity to experience as much as they can in their world.
S4: So don't intimidate them by being too protective. Just give
S4: as much space. So normally, just keep opening the fences
S4: till they can get out in the big wide yonder.
S4: So that would be my advice just to give them
S4: as much experience and as much, you know, freedom as
S4: is capable, that the child won't harm themselves.
S3: If I can just add to that, I think there's
S3: a and I didn't know about this until I was
S3: an adult, but when I started playing rugby league football,
S3: dad was talking to a few of the other dads
S3: and they said, Does Matt have any friends that want
S3: to play rugby league? Because the their son's team needed
S3: a few extra players and he said, oh, Matt will play.
S3: And the way that these dads responded to him was saying,
S3: oh no, Don, your son's visually impaired. He's he's blind.
S3: He won't be able to to play. He'll get hurt.
S3: He'll be you're putting. And so the I suppose the
S3: narrative of that is there's telling him that he's putting
S3: his son in harm's way and he's a bad parent
S3: because he's putting his child in harm's way. And I
S3: think that's a fear as well for parents that they
S3: not just that their child might get hurt, but they
S3: could be seen to be being reckless, letting their child
S3: with a disability do something where they might get hurt.
S3: But I think the reality if you flip, that is
S3: what my dad was doing by letting me play rugby
S3: league and my mum was doing was giving me an
S3: opportunity rather than putting me in harm's way. And, you know,
S3: I went and played that sport and I was very
S3: good at that sport. I ended up playing that at
S3: a representative level. But if they never took that risk
S3: and the risk was obviously that I could get hurt,
S3: and the risk is that they could look like reckless
S3: parents because they were putting me in harm's way, then
S3: they wouldn't have given me that opportunity, which, you know,
S3: I think that opportunity has set me up in my life.
S3: I got to play in that team, which taught me
S3: about the, you know, working with the team, uh, being responsible,
S3: you know, ownership, turning up on time, all these things
S3: that you learn when you're a part of a team.
S3: And I think also training hard. And that set me
S3: up to be the athlete that I am today and
S3: cycling and surfing.
S2: All right. And Matt, we'll talk about the book a
S2: little bit now and I won't give too much away.
S2: I want people out there to check it out and
S2: give it a read and. Hear all about your story,
S2: but you speak in there about how the ocean tells
S2: you things, that speaks to you when you're out on
S2: the water. So could you sort of go into a
S2: bit of detail around that? Because that's quite interesting. Yeah.
S3: So I mean, people always walk up to me and say,
S3: how do you surf? Because I've got on my on
S3: my wetsuits and my rash face. I've got Blind surfer
S3: and really big text. And, you know, some people know
S3: who I am. So they kind of say, how do
S3: you surf when you can't see? It's crazy. I don't understand,
S3: but most sighted people that surf really well will end
S3: up staying out one day. And we say when it's
S3: pumping and that means the waves are really good. And
S3: they'll say until the sun goes down into the dark
S3: and then they end up surfing in the dark. I
S3: just surf in the dark every day. And that's, I
S3: think that's it's a very apt name for the book
S3: surfing in the dark. And I say to them, well,
S3: what what did it feel like when you were surfing
S3: in the dark? And they said, oh yeah. It was
S3: this feeling of weightlessness. I was just floating. And because
S3: I can't see the wave, and that's what I feel
S3: every day when I surf. So the way the ocean
S3: talks to me in ways of their sound and the energy.
S3: So as I'm paddling out through the waves, instead of
S3: seeing the white water coming towards me, I hear it.
S3: And then at the last minute I feel the water
S3: sucking towards the wave because the white, the wave actually
S3: sucks water back towards it as it gets close to you.
S3: And then as a wave is coming, it goes, you know,
S3: I'm sitting at the back, it goes up and down
S3: and I feel there's a bigger waves coming. You go
S3: down further and up, it's a bigger drop, and then
S3: you go up steep because the waves wanting to break
S3: on the bank. So there's all these little, little nuances
S3: that you learn to over years and hours and hours
S3: and hours. And, you know, for me, thousands of hours
S3: of surfing. I'm now dialed into the ocean through sound
S3: and feel, and I can navigate through the ocean using
S3: sound and feel as well, or better than a lot
S3: of sighted people.
S2: So the books are being sold across Australia, and the
S2: proceeds from sales do go towards supporting the vital services
S2: that Vision Australia provides for people who are blind or
S2: have low vision. And as you've mentioned, they'll feature Braille,
S2: so they allow children or parents who are Braille readers
S2: to read along together and and so they are available
S2: now for people to go and pick up a copy
S2: and have a read and share with their kids or,
S2: you know, people in their friend groups who may be
S2: interested to hear about these stories. So we do encourage
S2: people to get out to their retailer, but also go
S2: through the Vision Australia library or the vision Store to
S2: pick up a copy of surfing in the dark featuring
S2: Matt Thomsen, who have been speaking with today alongside his
S2: mum Lorraine. I'm Sam Corley and you're listening to Talking
S2: Vision on Vision Australia. Radio associated stations of RPA and
S2: the Community Radio Network. I hope you're enjoying this special
S2: holiday edition of Talking Vision. We just heard from Matt
S2: and Lorraine Foreman. They're chatting all about surfing in the dark,
S2: the first edition of the three part Big Visions book series,
S2: which launched over the course of this year. As always,
S2: if you missed any part of the episode today or
S2: you'd love to listen to it again, Talking Vision is
S2: available on the podcast app of your choice or through
S2: the Vision Australia library. And now here's Nicole Lee, President
S2: of people with Disabilities Australia, chatting to me about the
S2: recent Disability Royal commission. I began by asking Nicole to
S2: give us a quick overview of the Disability Royal Commission
S2: and the final report in particular.
S4: Yeah, sure. So the Disability Royal Commission was established back
S4: in 2019. So it's been going for four and a
S4: half years roughly, um, where they've held public hearings, including
S4: through lots of Covid lockdowns. So they had to pivot
S4: to doing a lot of things online. They've had private
S4: hearings and issued lots of papers. So I think there's
S4: 7944 submissions that they received, 17,824 phone inquiries, 14 issue
S4: papers published, 70 responses to issue papers and 1785 private
S4: sessions were held in that four and a half years.
S4: So it's quite a substantial piece of work that they've
S4: undertaken over the last four and a half years. And
S4: so that's resulted in the report that was handed down
S4: last Friday, the 29th of September, that contained 222 recommendations.
S4: And it was roughly was it 13 volumes? I think,
S4: from memory. So quite a big report, you could say.
S2: Absolutely. And I think it's worth touching on those 222 recommendations. And,
S2: you know, what were the sort of key findings and
S2: outcomes with those recommendations that have emerged from the Commission
S2: that you'd really like to let people know about and
S2: to highlight some.
S4: Of the really big ones, you know, in there, which
S4: really are ultimately the low hanging fruit, I guess, in
S4: regards to, you know, disability rights is, you know, to
S4: establish a human rights framework and a Disability Discrimination Act,
S4: you know, a disability rights framework within Australia. So, you know,
S4: that isn't something we ultimately, in my opinion, needed a
S4: Royal commission to work out that that was something we
S4: needed to do. But irrespective of that, we've got, you know,
S4: recommendations around that. And the other one was around, um,
S4: you know, abolishing forced sterilization of women and girls with disability. Again,
S4: that is not something that should have taken a royal
S4: commission to come out with that recommendation. And that is
S4: something that's been advocated for for many, many, many years. So,
S4: you know, we have to see it as a win
S4: to actually get it into this report. And hopefully that
S4: that recommendation definitely does get actioned on as soon as
S4: possible with limited time, I guess. You know, it's not
S4: something we need a long plan of action for. They are.
S4: They do right now. Easy. There should be no arguments
S4: in regards to kind of recommendations. There was the talk
S4: around the segregated education, which unfortunately there was a divide
S4: amongst the commissioners, and there seems to be a fair
S4: amount of debate within the community around, you know, what
S4: is segregated education and that, you know, some commissioners didn't
S4: want it. Some people in the community don't want it.
S4: But ultimately, you know, the disability community does want to
S4: see an end to segregation. We do want to see
S4: integrated and full inclusion within the whole of society. Unfortunately,
S4: the timeline around your abolishing segregated education is 28 years.
S4: So kicking the can down the road, so to speak,
S4: you know, we need to be making. Yeah, it's a
S4: long it's a it's an unambitious very unambitious 28 years.
S4: I mean who can think that far ahead. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
S4: And and it also leads to your another several lots
S4: of generations of children being segregated. You know we've got
S4: to look at that as being a basic human right.
S4: Not segregating children based on difference. You know, we wouldn't
S4: do this for any other cohort. Why should we do
S4: this for disability? You know, and if we want to
S4: look at the drivers of violence against disability segregation is
S4: that big driver of violence against us. And we want
S4: to shift community attitudes towards people with disability. Well, we're
S4: not going to do that if we're not visible in
S4: the world around us. So if we're telling children as
S4: young as five or under that those kids are different.
S4: So therefore they learn over there in that classroom or
S4: in that school over there, and not in the same
S4: classroom as you. And we're telling disabled children that you're
S4: different and you don't belong. Well, we're setting in stone
S4: already at a young age, the fear of disabled people,
S4: discrimination of disabled people and reinforcing those stigmas of difference of. People,
S4: rather than seeing us as just kids alongside other kids
S4: playing in the playground. So that's a really important piece
S4: that we, you know, we want to see worked on.
S4: But the 28 year mark is far too long. That
S4: needs to be a much more ambitious timeline for that one.
S4: And the other sort of bits and pieces around segregated housing.
S4: Everybody should have the right to choose where they live,
S4: who they live with, and how they live their lives
S4: and the environments in which they live in. So abolishing
S4: group homes is really, really vital now. Like just like
S4: anybody else leaving home, some people want to go and
S4: live in a share house, but they get a choice
S4: in who they live in that share house with. It's
S4: the same for disabled people. Some disabled people might want
S4: to live with others and share an environment and share
S4: a home, but having choice and control over who is
S4: in that environment, who lives with you, is the vital
S4: piece here that needs to be worked on, that hopefully
S4: that that is something that will be prioritized. You know,
S4: with the government task force that's been announced that they're
S4: looking to set up, unfortunately, we don't have a lot
S4: of details around what they mean by that government task force.
S4: So far, on the surface value, it has been very
S4: much committing to government departments with advice from the disability community.
S4: You know, we don't want to be advising from the
S4: outside into a task force that's looking at implementing the
S4: royal commission. You know, we want broad representation in the
S4: room alongside government on how we're implementing this royal commission
S4: and its recommendations. So, you know, that task force is
S4: a vital piece of the puzzle here so that we
S4: are in the room, we're with the decision makers and
S4: we are overseeing what do we mean, how do we
S4: define segregation on our terms and not what other people
S4: define as segregation for us? And that's been a bit
S4: of a debate around, you know, education and what other
S4: people assume or classify as segregation, um, which isn't necessarily
S4: the same as what how we conceptualize segregation.
S2: You've given us quite a great deal of ideas, perspective,
S2: and your perspective individually, just there in response to the findings.
S2: So thank you very much for that. But I also understand,
S2: and I believe you would have been speaking to quite
S2: a few organizations and individuals over the past week, following
S2: on from the publication of the final report. So what
S2: have been the feelings there from your side of things,
S2: but also from those who you've spoken to in the
S2: sector over the past week?
S4: I think one of the things that's really I shouldn't
S4: be surprised, but I'm kind of shocked at that I've
S4: seen coming out and from other people in the sector
S4: is the fact that we don't have a section on
S4: women and girls with disability, considering we experience much higher
S4: rates of violence and neglect and abuse than other cohorts
S4: in the community, including, you know, quite high rates of
S4: sexual violence, we have the lowest rates of education inclusion,
S4: and we have the lowest employment rates out of the
S4: entire community. Yet there was no discussion in the Royal
S4: Commission around bringing up that gender equity piece. So that's
S4: kind of disappointing if I can put that sort of
S4: side around gender and gender based violence into perspective. Victoria
S4: had a Royal Commission into Family Violence that handed down
S4: a report in 2016. Now, considering that this is just
S4: a royal commission into violence, gender based violence in one state,
S4: so one area of our lives, it came out with
S4: 227 recommendations. Ten of those were dedicated to people with disability. Now,
S4: it's disappointing to see that women and girls and gender
S4: diverse people are only mentioned across four recommendations for, you know,
S4: the Disability Royal Commission, which is meant to be investigating
S4: violence that spans the course of our lifetime. So from
S4: birth to the day we die. So it's disappointing to
S4: see that that hasn't come through. And this is where
S4: we need that representation in the room with that task force,
S4: because that conversation needs to be had. Well, yet we
S4: want to end violence against all people with disability, but
S4: we also want to bring up the equity of women
S4: and girls with disability who are experiencing higher rates of
S4: violence and sexual violence than other areas of the disability community.
S4: And what can we do around prevention and safeguarding for
S4: women and girls with disability? So that was one of
S4: the big reflections that I've seen come out of the community,
S4: you know, noting that, you know, gender based violence is
S4: something that I sunk my teeth into when I came
S4: into activism as a family violence survivor. So it's something
S4: that is very core and personal to me. And it's
S4: also the hearing in which I gave my own personal
S4: evidence to as well, around the experience of violence against
S4: women with disabilities, including my own experience. So that's an
S4: area that is lacking that needs to have some uplift
S4: in regards to it. And I guess it's good that
S4: we're looking at how do we reduce restricted practice, how
S4: do we move away from using seclusion and restraints against
S4: people with disability? But I don't feel that it quite
S4: goes far enough. We don't want to be using language
S4: around reducing restrictive practices. We want to be using language
S4: around abolishing restrictive practice. We want to be looking at.
S4: Pathways with dedicated time frames around, well, how do we
S4: end the use of restrictive practice, seclusion and restraint? How
S4: do we do that in all environments in which our
S4: lives are, you know, situated, including group homes, schools, health
S4: and mental health settings across the board and in the
S4: justice setting as well, so that all areas are safe
S4: for us to engage with because at the moment they're
S4: currently not. And unfortunately, it feels like there's just different
S4: language being put to services justifying the use of these practices,
S4: which do already exist, and they will continue to justify
S4: the use of it unless we actually give clear boundaries
S4: around no, we don't want to be reducing, we want
S4: to be abolishing, and you need to be looking at
S4: and addressing the environments in which people are existing in
S4: or engaging with services in that lead to an escalation
S4: of distress that then leads to the use of restrictive practice.
S4: So that's again why we need to be in the room.
S4: We need to be defining what that looks like. We
S4: need to be putting the language to that. And we
S4: need to be setting some clear boundaries around what do
S4: we actually mean by, you know, abolishing these things, and
S4: how do we go about doing it? And, you know,
S4: what are the steps that need to be taken? And
S4: the language used to draw a line very clearly in
S4: the sand, that there's not going to be any excuses
S4: moving forward, that these measures have to be taken and just,
S4: you know, putting other words around how to justify the
S4: continuation of these forms of practices need to be stamped out.
S2: And if people want to get in touch with Pueda
S2: and talk to somebody about their experiences or their feelings
S2: about the final report and the outcomes from the Royal Commission,
S2: what's the best way for people to get in touch
S2: with you?
S4: I guess via our email channels, which can be found
S4: on our website, to make contact with the organisation or
S4: if you need support, with individualised advocacy on different issues.
S4: But the other one, like if you just want to
S4: sort of discuss struggling with what the report contains or
S4: a lot of emotions that are sitting with this report,
S4: is that Blue Note is still offering counselling moving forward
S4: for people, and they're a really good service that support
S4: people with complex trauma. And they were involved in the
S4: commission and supporting people who were giving evidence. So, you know,
S4: there's always blue not to go to, to discuss what
S4: you're going through or, you know, just even debriefing on
S4: how you feel about the report. But I guess always,
S4: you know, sort of reach out to people via email
S4: with your thoughts. We will be putting together possibly some
S4: surveys moving forward to ask people some questions around what
S4: are their priorities, what do they feel needs to be
S4: actioned on quicker over others so we can get a
S4: sense from the community around what it is they want
S4: us to be advocating for as a priority above other things.
S4: So that is something that will be coming out further
S4: down the track once we've had a bit more of
S4: a chance to really, you know, go over all of
S4: the report and its recommendations and put something together to
S4: engage with the community to get their feelings and thoughts
S4: on the commission. And where do we move to first?
S2: I've been speaking today with Nicole Lee, president of people
S2: with Disabilities Australia, about the recently published final report from
S2: the Disability Royal Commission. And that's all the time we
S2: have for today on this holiday special edition of Talking Vision.
S2: Talking vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks
S2: to all involved with putting this show together every week
S2: and as always, we encourage any feedback and comments, so
S2: do feel free to get in touch anytime at Talking Vision.
S2: At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all. One word at
S2: Vision australia.org to have your say. This is Sam Colley,
S2: wishing you all a very happy and safe holiday period
S2: and a fantastic new year. So until next week it's
S2: bye for now.
S1: You can contact Virgin Australia by phoning us anytime during
S1: business hours on one 308 4746. That's one 384 746
S1: or by visiting Vision australia.org. That's Vision Australia call.