WEBVTT - Talking Vision 708 Week Beginning 25th of December 2023 0:00:13.198 --> 0:00:18.968 From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's 0:00:18.968 --> 0:00:20.978 your host, Sam. Colleague. 0:00:23.578 --> 0:00:26.698 Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And 0:00:26.698 --> 0:00:29.668 for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness 0:00:29.668 --> 0:00:34.408 and low vision. Welcome to this special holiday edition of 0:00:34.408 --> 0:00:39.298 Talking Vision. Today we feature two interviews from the year 0:00:39.298 --> 0:00:43.678 just gone, starting off with Matt Foremost and the star 0:00:43.678 --> 0:00:47.458 of surfing in the dark, the first book in the 0:00:47.458 --> 0:00:52.138 three part Big Vision series, which launched earlier this year. 0:00:52.348 --> 0:00:55.798 Matt joined me along with his mum Lorraine to catch 0:00:55.798 --> 0:00:59.398 up just after the book launched and you'll hear from 0:00:59.398 --> 0:01:03.688 him once more very shortly. Then, after you hear from 0:01:03.688 --> 0:01:08.548 Matt and Lorraine, I spoke with Nicole Lee, president of 0:01:08.548 --> 0:01:12.778 people with Disabilities Australia, who I caught up with early 0:01:12.778 --> 0:01:18.148 in October following the publication of the final report from 0:01:18.148 --> 0:01:23.368 the Disability Royal Commission on the 29th of September. I 0:01:23.368 --> 0:01:28.348 hope you enjoyed this special holiday episode of Talking Vision. 0:01:33.298 --> 0:01:37.288 I began the interview with Matt by asking him about 0:01:37.288 --> 0:01:41.098 the motivation behind surfing in the dark and why he 0:01:41.098 --> 0:01:42.148 got involved. 0:01:42.388 --> 0:01:45.568 Very honoured and grateful that Vision Australia reached out to 0:01:45.568 --> 0:01:47.548 me to to be part of the series, to sort 0:01:47.548 --> 0:01:50.698 of showcase my life and some of the, I suppose, 0:01:50.698 --> 0:01:52.738 the ups and the downs that I've had. But um, 0:01:54.148 --> 0:01:56.788 why wouldn't I be involved? It's such, such an honour 0:01:56.788 --> 0:01:59.518 to be part of this, to be featured in the 0:01:59.518 --> 0:02:03.718 first ever book in Australia that features both text, images 0:02:03.718 --> 0:02:07.468 and Braille. Um, it's simply an honour and I'm just 0:02:07.468 --> 0:02:08.668 grateful to be a part of it. 0:02:09.118 --> 0:02:13.378 And let's go back to the very beginning, when you 0:02:13.378 --> 0:02:17.218 sort of got involved with surfing at a very young age, 0:02:17.218 --> 0:02:21.868 but you're also grappling with the vision loss diagnosis at 0:02:21.868 --> 0:02:25.318 age five. What was that like to sort of be 0:02:25.318 --> 0:02:28.978 balancing all the active things you were doing with, you know, 0:02:28.978 --> 0:02:32.608 rugby and surfing and what have you, and being an 0:02:32.608 --> 0:02:36.178 active little boy, but also with the vision loss, what 0:02:36.178 --> 0:02:38.008 was that like to cope with? 0:02:38.818 --> 0:02:40.948 I mean, it was it was challenging. But I think, 0:02:40.948 --> 0:02:42.868 you know, all anything in life you can look at 0:02:42.868 --> 0:02:46.558 as a challenge or as easy. But when my mum's 0:02:46.558 --> 0:02:49.408 here with me today, my family, her and my dad 0:02:49.408 --> 0:02:52.708 would was not about your blind. You can't do that. 0:02:52.708 --> 0:02:55.768 It was let's just do it. And if there's a problem, 0:02:56.158 --> 0:02:58.258 we'll work it out. So that was what the focus wasn't. 0:02:58.408 --> 0:03:00.748 Wasn't on the fact that I was blind and there 0:03:00.748 --> 0:03:03.088 was challenges. The focus was more on what do you 0:03:03.088 --> 0:03:06.628 want to do? Just like my siblings and friends. So, um, 0:03:06.628 --> 0:03:08.668 I didn't focus on it too much, to be honest. 0:03:08.668 --> 0:03:11.278 I was just focusing on having fun and playing with 0:03:11.278 --> 0:03:12.058 my friends. 0:03:12.178 --> 0:03:16.048 And so, Lauren, what was that whole time period like 0:03:16.048 --> 0:03:19.288 for you as well as a mum? You'd probably have 0:03:19.318 --> 0:03:22.738 a few worries and things here and there about, oh, 0:03:22.768 --> 0:03:26.068 you know, what's going to happen and like, what can 0:03:26.068 --> 0:03:28.948 Matt do? But it's also a credit to you and 0:03:28.948 --> 0:03:31.888 the family for saying, you know, Matt can do this. 0:03:31.888 --> 0:03:35.398 There was never that whole phrase of Matt can't do that, 0:03:35.398 --> 0:03:38.878 Matt can't do this. And I think that really speaks 0:03:38.878 --> 0:03:41.788 to me. And it's something really important to spread that 0:03:41.788 --> 0:03:43.018 message as well. 0:03:43.858 --> 0:03:47.758 Well, I was asked when Matthew was diagnosed at five, 0:03:47.938 --> 0:03:51.688 the district nurse rang me and said, do you want 0:03:51.688 --> 0:03:54.748 to come and talk about it? And I said, no, 0:03:54.748 --> 0:03:58.648 Matthew's very capable child. I'll just go along with him. 0:03:58.648 --> 0:04:01.348 And when he has problems, then we'll talk about it. 0:04:01.468 --> 0:04:04.348 And Matthew was so adept at everything. We never got 0:04:04.348 --> 0:04:05.728 to that conversation. 0:04:06.208 --> 0:04:10.378 Oh that's wonderful. That's really good to hear. So also, Matt, 0:04:10.378 --> 0:04:12.508 I just want to come back to you now. One 0:04:12.508 --> 0:04:15.268 of the main purposes of the book is to help 0:04:15.268 --> 0:04:18.898 children who are blind or have low vision, understand that 0:04:18.898 --> 0:04:21.958 living with blindness or low vision doesn't have to be 0:04:21.958 --> 0:04:26.458 a barrier to achieving their goals. And it's really important 0:04:26.458 --> 0:04:30.478 for people with lived experience of blindness or low vision 0:04:30.478 --> 0:04:36.058 to have that representation in children's materials. Was that another 0:04:36.058 --> 0:04:39.238 reason as to why you did get involved? 0:04:39.838 --> 0:04:42.478 Well, I'm just sort of honored to be part of it. 0:04:42.478 --> 0:04:44.128 It was as soon as I was asked to be 0:04:44.128 --> 0:04:46.198 part of this, I said yes, and I'm just privileged 0:04:46.198 --> 0:04:47.638 to be part of it. But, I mean, obviously, I'm 0:04:47.638 --> 0:04:50.368 very honoured that my story is being showcased. There's so 0:04:50.368 --> 0:04:53.788 many stories, I think, of people with blindness and low 0:04:53.788 --> 0:04:57.688 vision in Australia and globally that could showcase resilience and 0:04:57.688 --> 0:05:02.458 could showcase the can spirit and not focus on can't. Um, so, 0:05:02.458 --> 0:05:04.498 you know, I just want to acknowledge that, you know, 0:05:04.498 --> 0:05:07.918 I'm very privileged that my story has been showcased and 0:05:07.918 --> 0:05:09.868 that there are lots of other stories that could have 0:05:09.868 --> 0:05:12.958 been in that situation. And, look, I take it as 0:05:12.958 --> 0:05:16.168 a great privilege, but also as a responsibility to, you know, 0:05:16.168 --> 0:05:19.618 help educate the next generation that it's not all gloom. 0:05:19.618 --> 0:05:21.568 There are just if you want to do something, you 0:05:21.568 --> 0:05:22.858 can do it. You just have to find a way, 0:05:22.858 --> 0:05:24.598 and your way might be a bit different to somebody 0:05:24.598 --> 0:05:27.028 else's way. And that's just not. That's not just because 0:05:27.028 --> 0:05:29.158 you're visually impaired, that this could be because you live 0:05:29.158 --> 0:05:32.728 further out of town. We're all different as human beings. And, 0:05:32.728 --> 0:05:34.738 you know, we all have to approach things in different ways. 0:05:34.738 --> 0:05:38.368 And, Matt, we've talked about the importance from within the 0:05:38.368 --> 0:05:42.958 blind and low vision community, but there's also perceptions from 0:05:42.958 --> 0:05:46.408 the general public that still do need to be changed 0:05:46.408 --> 0:05:49.408 a little bit about what people who are blind or 0:05:49.408 --> 0:05:53.668 have low vision can achieve. So what sort of experiences 0:05:53.668 --> 0:05:56.758 have you had from that side of things with sort 0:05:56.758 --> 0:06:00.688 of people, from the general public having certain perceptions of 0:06:00.688 --> 0:06:03.028 what you can and can't do? Is that sort of 0:06:03.028 --> 0:06:05.488 come across your wavelength at any point? 0:06:05.668 --> 0:06:09.388 Yeah, a lot. As a businessman, I work in, in 0:06:09.388 --> 0:06:13.378 the corporate space for, for a ICT organisation, but I 0:06:13.378 --> 0:06:17.488 also sit on a few boards and I'm obviously heavily 0:06:17.488 --> 0:06:21.538 involved in as an ambassador in multiple disability sectors. But 0:06:22.498 --> 0:06:24.748 I think there's two parts to it. There's the community 0:06:24.748 --> 0:06:29.278 at large and large organisations not understanding what blindness is 0:06:29.278 --> 0:06:31.978 and and what it isn't. But there's also, I think, 0:06:31.978 --> 0:06:33.868 a lot of misconception within the blind and low vision 0:06:33.868 --> 0:06:37.078 community around what is possible. So and I think they 0:06:37.078 --> 0:06:41.128 both need to be addressed. The peace around, um, the 0:06:41.128 --> 0:06:45.268 community at large understanding is really tricky. And I think this, 0:06:45.268 --> 0:06:49.078 this book series is a great step towards educating people 0:06:49.078 --> 0:06:52.678 as to, you know, it showcases someone that goes surfing 0:06:52.678 --> 0:06:56.278 and cycling. Um, someone who's, who's who's a chef and 0:06:56.278 --> 0:06:59.788 uses feel and and smell and someone who's an artist 0:06:59.788 --> 0:07:03.718 and makes beautiful garments using texture and feel. And I 0:07:03.718 --> 0:07:07.858 think it's showcasing the benefits of the disability that is 0:07:07.858 --> 0:07:11.548 really important to help the community. It's also to, to 0:07:11.548 --> 0:07:15.238 showcase to to organizations that are employing people with disabilities. 0:07:15.568 --> 0:07:18.628 I mean, I grew up not being able to read. 0:07:18.628 --> 0:07:20.638 I'd never learnt Braille. So I went and I went 0:07:20.638 --> 0:07:22.948 through mainstream schooling in the 80s, which was not done 0:07:22.948 --> 0:07:25.708 at the time. But because of that, I listened and 0:07:25.708 --> 0:07:28.528 ask questions through my whole education. So by the time 0:07:28.528 --> 0:07:31.168 I had finished school, I had a 20 year degree 0:07:31.168 --> 0:07:33.778 in sales. I've been asking and listening, you know, so 0:07:33.778 --> 0:07:36.058 I think we're not going to be very successful in sales. 0:07:36.058 --> 0:07:38.758 And my corporate career and my counterparts just could not 0:07:38.758 --> 0:07:41.068 have had the experience that I have in, in, in 0:07:41.068 --> 0:07:43.618 listening and asking questions, which I was forced to attain 0:07:43.618 --> 0:07:46.258 because of my disability. So I think if we focus 0:07:46.258 --> 0:07:49.348 more on what the benefits of, of our diversity. So 0:07:49.348 --> 0:07:51.958 because we're different and we have a, uh, one of 0:07:51.958 --> 0:07:53.638 our parts doesn't work, it means that we have to 0:07:53.638 --> 0:07:56.158 make other parts work better. And if we can showcase 0:07:56.158 --> 0:07:59.218 that to the community and to corporates and to anywhere 0:07:59.218 --> 0:08:01.738 we're going in life and focus on the positives, I 0:08:01.738 --> 0:08:03.958 think that's the way forward. And I think this book 0:08:03.958 --> 0:08:07.018 series is a great way to start that conversation. 0:08:07.018 --> 0:08:10.438 And Lorraine will come to you. Now, what sort of 0:08:10.438 --> 0:08:13.198 things do you have to say about, you know, the 0:08:13.198 --> 0:08:17.008 importance of letting your son or daughter, who might have 0:08:17.008 --> 0:08:19.708 low vision if there's parents out there listening and the 0:08:19.708 --> 0:08:23.758 sort of maybe at the early stages of working through 0:08:23.758 --> 0:08:26.968 diagnosis and what it all means, what do you have 0:08:26.968 --> 0:08:28.498 to say, I guess, around that. 0:08:28.768 --> 0:08:35.068 Well, I just think that experiencing everything. So as Matthew said, textiles. Well, 0:08:35.068 --> 0:08:39.898 even just going out and feeling nature and being so going, walking, 0:08:39.898 --> 0:08:44.068 allow them to be in the park and going like 0:08:44.068 --> 0:08:47.668 walking or climbing or all those things, so that even 0:08:47.668 --> 0:08:51.028 with low vision that they can just feel and not being, 0:08:51.028 --> 0:08:53.638 I think as a parent it is very scary for 0:08:53.638 --> 0:08:56.308 them and the unknown, like, what is this child going 0:08:56.308 --> 0:08:58.438 to do? Like we were told Matthew wouldn't be able 0:08:58.438 --> 0:09:01.378 to drive a car. He'd never have much of an education. 0:09:01.378 --> 0:09:04.588 He'd never play sport. Well, that all was wrong, but 0:09:04.588 --> 0:09:07.378 that's what we were told. Um, so I think you've 0:09:07.378 --> 0:09:07.558 got to. 0:09:07.708 --> 0:09:08.338 Drive a car. 0:09:08.908 --> 0:09:12.868 I know he will in the future, get a car 0:09:12.868 --> 0:09:13.738 that drives itself. 0:09:13.768 --> 0:09:16.108 That's right. I'm looking forward to that day. Yeah. 0:09:16.588 --> 0:09:20.068 Um, so my feeling is just you as a parent 0:09:20.068 --> 0:09:24.538 can feel what's right and give the child as much 0:09:24.538 --> 0:09:28.408 opportunity to experience as much as they can in their world. 0:09:28.408 --> 0:09:33.358 So don't intimidate them by being too protective. Just give 0:09:33.358 --> 0:09:37.168 as much space. So normally, just keep opening the fences 0:09:37.168 --> 0:09:39.958 till they can get out in the big wide yonder. 0:09:39.958 --> 0:09:42.208 So that would be my advice just to give them 0:09:42.208 --> 0:09:46.318 as much experience and as much, you know, freedom as 0:09:46.318 --> 0:09:49.198 is capable, that the child won't harm themselves. 0:09:49.588 --> 0:09:51.028 If I can just add to that, I think there's 0:09:51.028 --> 0:09:52.348 a and I didn't know about this until I was 0:09:52.348 --> 0:09:55.228 an adult, but when I started playing rugby league football, 0:09:55.228 --> 0:09:57.268 dad was talking to a few of the other dads 0:09:57.268 --> 0:09:59.098 and they said, Does Matt have any friends that want 0:09:59.098 --> 0:10:02.308 to play rugby league? Because the their son's team needed 0:10:02.308 --> 0:10:05.098 a few extra players and he said, oh, Matt will play. 0:10:05.518 --> 0:10:08.398 And the way that these dads responded to him was saying, 0:10:08.398 --> 0:10:11.098 oh no, Don, your son's visually impaired. He's he's blind. 0:10:11.098 --> 0:10:13.768 He won't be able to to play. He'll get hurt. 0:10:13.768 --> 0:10:16.198 He'll be you're putting. And so the I suppose the 0:10:16.198 --> 0:10:18.928 narrative of that is there's telling him that he's putting 0:10:18.928 --> 0:10:21.598 his son in harm's way and he's a bad parent 0:10:21.598 --> 0:10:24.448 because he's putting his child in harm's way. And I 0:10:24.448 --> 0:10:27.268 think that's a fear as well for parents that they 0:10:27.478 --> 0:10:29.458 not just that their child might get hurt, but they 0:10:29.458 --> 0:10:32.248 could be seen to be being reckless, letting their child 0:10:32.248 --> 0:10:34.858 with a disability do something where they might get hurt. 0:10:35.038 --> 0:10:37.648 But I think the reality if you flip, that is 0:10:37.798 --> 0:10:39.838 what my dad was doing by letting me play rugby 0:10:39.838 --> 0:10:42.178 league and my mum was doing was giving me an 0:10:42.178 --> 0:10:45.178 opportunity rather than putting me in harm's way. And, you know, 0:10:45.178 --> 0:10:46.588 I went and played that sport and I was very 0:10:46.588 --> 0:10:48.028 good at that sport. I ended up playing that at 0:10:48.028 --> 0:10:51.628 a representative level. But if they never took that risk 0:10:51.868 --> 0:10:53.788 and the risk was obviously that I could get hurt, 0:10:53.788 --> 0:10:55.708 and the risk is that they could look like reckless 0:10:55.708 --> 0:10:58.648 parents because they were putting me in harm's way, then 0:10:58.648 --> 0:11:00.568 they wouldn't have given me that opportunity, which, you know, 0:11:00.568 --> 0:11:03.418 I think that opportunity has set me up in my life. 0:11:03.418 --> 0:11:05.008 I got to play in that team, which taught me 0:11:05.008 --> 0:11:09.388 about the, you know, working with the team, uh, being responsible, 0:11:09.388 --> 0:11:12.358 you know, ownership, turning up on time, all these things 0:11:12.358 --> 0:11:14.188 that you learn when you're a part of a team. 0:11:14.188 --> 0:11:16.408 And I think also training hard. And that set me 0:11:16.408 --> 0:11:18.328 up to be the athlete that I am today and 0:11:18.328 --> 0:11:19.408 cycling and surfing. 0:11:19.618 --> 0:11:23.038 All right. And Matt, we'll talk about the book a 0:11:23.038 --> 0:11:25.978 little bit now and I won't give too much away. 0:11:26.188 --> 0:11:29.188 I want people out there to check it out and 0:11:29.188 --> 0:11:32.568 give it a read and. Hear all about your story, 0:11:32.568 --> 0:11:36.348 but you speak in there about how the ocean tells 0:11:36.348 --> 0:11:39.018 you things, that speaks to you when you're out on 0:11:39.018 --> 0:11:41.988 the water. So could you sort of go into a 0:11:41.988 --> 0:11:46.008 bit of detail around that? Because that's quite interesting. Yeah. 0:11:46.008 --> 0:11:48.468 So I mean, people always walk up to me and say, 0:11:48.468 --> 0:11:50.748 how do you surf? Because I've got on my on 0:11:50.748 --> 0:11:53.388 my wetsuits and my rash face. I've got Blind surfer 0:11:53.388 --> 0:11:55.638 and really big text. And, you know, some people know 0:11:55.638 --> 0:11:56.988 who I am. So they kind of say, how do 0:11:56.988 --> 0:11:59.418 you surf when you can't see? It's crazy. I don't understand, 0:11:59.658 --> 0:12:02.718 but most sighted people that surf really well will end 0:12:02.718 --> 0:12:04.608 up staying out one day. And we say when it's 0:12:04.608 --> 0:12:06.498 pumping and that means the waves are really good. And 0:12:06.498 --> 0:12:09.138 they'll say until the sun goes down into the dark 0:12:09.138 --> 0:12:11.178 and then they end up surfing in the dark. I 0:12:11.178 --> 0:12:12.678 just surf in the dark every day. And that's, I 0:12:12.678 --> 0:12:14.388 think that's it's a very apt name for the book 0:12:14.388 --> 0:12:16.458 surfing in the dark. And I say to them, well, 0:12:16.458 --> 0:12:18.348 what what did it feel like when you were surfing 0:12:18.348 --> 0:12:19.398 in the dark? And they said, oh yeah. It was 0:12:19.398 --> 0:12:22.098 this feeling of weightlessness. I was just floating. And because 0:12:22.098 --> 0:12:24.438 I can't see the wave, and that's what I feel 0:12:24.438 --> 0:12:26.688 every day when I surf. So the way the ocean 0:12:26.688 --> 0:12:29.268 talks to me in ways of their sound and the energy. 0:12:29.268 --> 0:12:32.058 So as I'm paddling out through the waves, instead of 0:12:32.058 --> 0:12:34.368 seeing the white water coming towards me, I hear it. 0:12:34.368 --> 0:12:36.198 And then at the last minute I feel the water 0:12:36.198 --> 0:12:38.838 sucking towards the wave because the white, the wave actually 0:12:38.838 --> 0:12:40.998 sucks water back towards it as it gets close to you. 0:12:41.238 --> 0:12:43.278 And then as a wave is coming, it goes, you know, 0:12:43.278 --> 0:12:45.438 I'm sitting at the back, it goes up and down 0:12:45.588 --> 0:12:47.658 and I feel there's a bigger waves coming. You go 0:12:47.658 --> 0:12:51.078 down further and up, it's a bigger drop, and then 0:12:51.078 --> 0:12:52.998 you go up steep because the waves wanting to break 0:12:52.998 --> 0:12:55.188 on the bank. So there's all these little, little nuances 0:12:55.188 --> 0:12:57.468 that you learn to over years and hours and hours 0:12:57.468 --> 0:12:59.388 and hours. And, you know, for me, thousands of hours 0:12:59.388 --> 0:13:03.558 of surfing. I'm now dialed into the ocean through sound 0:13:03.558 --> 0:13:07.128 and feel, and I can navigate through the ocean using 0:13:07.128 --> 0:13:09.018 sound and feel as well, or better than a lot 0:13:09.018 --> 0:13:10.068 of sighted people. 0:13:10.068 --> 0:13:13.128 So the books are being sold across Australia, and the 0:13:13.128 --> 0:13:18.108 proceeds from sales do go towards supporting the vital services 0:13:18.108 --> 0:13:21.678 that Vision Australia provides for people who are blind or 0:13:21.678 --> 0:13:25.848 have low vision. And as you've mentioned, they'll feature Braille, 0:13:25.848 --> 0:13:28.998 so they allow children or parents who are Braille readers 0:13:28.998 --> 0:13:33.438 to read along together and and so they are available 0:13:33.438 --> 0:13:36.888 now for people to go and pick up a copy 0:13:36.888 --> 0:13:39.828 and have a read and share with their kids or, 0:13:39.828 --> 0:13:42.468 you know, people in their friend groups who may be 0:13:42.468 --> 0:13:46.128 interested to hear about these stories. So we do encourage 0:13:46.128 --> 0:13:49.938 people to get out to their retailer, but also go 0:13:49.938 --> 0:13:53.568 through the Vision Australia library or the vision Store to 0:13:53.568 --> 0:13:57.408 pick up a copy of surfing in the dark featuring 0:13:57.408 --> 0:14:01.398 Matt Thomsen, who have been speaking with today alongside his 0:14:01.398 --> 0:14:11.818 mum Lorraine. I'm Sam Corley and you're listening to Talking 0:14:11.818 --> 0:14:17.278 Vision on Vision Australia. Radio associated stations of RPA and 0:14:17.278 --> 0:14:21.718 the Community Radio Network. I hope you're enjoying this special 0:14:21.718 --> 0:14:25.888 holiday edition of Talking Vision. We just heard from Matt 0:14:25.888 --> 0:14:30.298 and Lorraine Foreman. They're chatting all about surfing in the dark, 0:14:30.298 --> 0:14:34.978 the first edition of the three part Big Visions book series, 0:14:34.978 --> 0:14:39.658 which launched over the course of this year. As always, 0:14:39.658 --> 0:14:43.048 if you missed any part of the episode today or 0:14:43.048 --> 0:14:46.198 you'd love to listen to it again, Talking Vision is 0:14:46.198 --> 0:14:50.818 available on the podcast app of your choice or through 0:14:50.818 --> 0:14:56.248 the Vision Australia library. And now here's Nicole Lee, President 0:14:56.248 --> 0:15:01.108 of people with Disabilities Australia, chatting to me about the 0:15:01.108 --> 0:15:06.478 recent Disability Royal commission. I began by asking Nicole to 0:15:06.478 --> 0:15:10.648 give us a quick overview of the Disability Royal Commission 0:15:10.648 --> 0:15:13.648 and the final report in particular. 0:15:13.978 --> 0:15:17.338 Yeah, sure. So the Disability Royal Commission was established back 0:15:17.338 --> 0:15:19.918 in 2019. So it's been going for four and a 0:15:19.918 --> 0:15:24.298 half years roughly, um, where they've held public hearings, including 0:15:24.298 --> 0:15:27.148 through lots of Covid lockdowns. So they had to pivot 0:15:27.148 --> 0:15:29.698 to doing a lot of things online. They've had private 0:15:29.698 --> 0:15:32.248 hearings and issued lots of papers. So I think there's 0:15:32.248 --> 0:15:39.988 7944 submissions that they received, 17,824 phone inquiries, 14 issue 0:15:39.988 --> 0:15:46.528 papers published, 70 responses to issue papers and 1785 private 0:15:46.528 --> 0:15:48.838 sessions were held in that four and a half years. 0:15:48.838 --> 0:15:52.648 So it's quite a substantial piece of work that they've 0:15:52.648 --> 0:15:55.468 undertaken over the last four and a half years. And 0:15:55.468 --> 0:15:58.288 so that's resulted in the report that was handed down 0:15:58.288 --> 0:16:04.408 last Friday, the 29th of September, that contained 222 recommendations. 0:16:04.408 --> 0:16:06.988 And it was roughly was it 13 volumes? I think, 0:16:06.988 --> 0:16:10.738 from memory. So quite a big report, you could say. 0:16:10.828 --> 0:16:18.448 Absolutely. And I think it's worth touching on those 222 recommendations. And, 0:16:18.448 --> 0:16:21.208 you know, what were the sort of key findings and 0:16:21.208 --> 0:16:26.878 outcomes with those recommendations that have emerged from the Commission 0:16:26.878 --> 0:16:30.478 that you'd really like to let people know about and 0:16:30.478 --> 0:16:31.768 to highlight some. 0:16:31.768 --> 0:16:33.808 Of the really big ones, you know, in there, which 0:16:33.808 --> 0:16:36.838 really are ultimately the low hanging fruit, I guess, in 0:16:36.838 --> 0:16:39.328 regards to, you know, disability rights is, you know, to 0:16:39.328 --> 0:16:43.228 establish a human rights framework and a Disability Discrimination Act, 0:16:43.228 --> 0:16:46.768 you know, a disability rights framework within Australia. So, you know, 0:16:46.768 --> 0:16:49.768 that isn't something we ultimately, in my opinion, needed a 0:16:49.768 --> 0:16:52.168 Royal commission to work out that that was something we 0:16:52.168 --> 0:16:54.658 needed to do. But irrespective of that, we've got, you know, 0:16:54.658 --> 0:16:57.718 recommendations around that. And the other one was around, um, 0:16:57.718 --> 0:17:01.828 you know, abolishing forced sterilization of women and girls with disability. Again, 0:17:01.828 --> 0:17:03.628 that is not something that should have taken a royal 0:17:03.628 --> 0:17:06.418 commission to come out with that recommendation. And that is 0:17:06.418 --> 0:17:10.498 something that's been advocated for for many, many, many years. So, 0:17:10.498 --> 0:17:11.848 you know, we have to see it as a win 0:17:11.848 --> 0:17:14.158 to actually get it into this report. And hopefully that 0:17:14.158 --> 0:17:18.388 that recommendation definitely does get actioned on as soon as 0:17:18.388 --> 0:17:22.018 possible with limited time, I guess. You know, it's not 0:17:22.018 --> 0:17:25.168 something we need a long plan of action for. They are. 0:17:25.168 --> 0:17:28.558 They do right now. Easy. There should be no arguments 0:17:28.558 --> 0:17:32.608 in regards to kind of recommendations. There was the talk 0:17:32.608 --> 0:17:36.118 around the segregated education, which unfortunately there was a divide 0:17:36.118 --> 0:17:38.188 amongst the commissioners, and there seems to be a fair 0:17:38.188 --> 0:17:40.978 amount of debate within the community around, you know, what 0:17:40.978 --> 0:17:44.188 is segregated education and that, you know, some commissioners didn't 0:17:44.188 --> 0:17:45.988 want it. Some people in the community don't want it. 0:17:45.988 --> 0:17:49.048 But ultimately, you know, the disability community does want to 0:17:49.048 --> 0:17:51.268 see an end to segregation. We do want to see 0:17:51.268 --> 0:17:55.528 integrated and full inclusion within the whole of society. Unfortunately, 0:17:55.528 --> 0:18:00.358 the timeline around your abolishing segregated education is 28 years. 0:18:00.358 --> 0:18:03.178 So kicking the can down the road, so to speak, 0:18:03.178 --> 0:18:06.238 you know, we need to be making. Yeah, it's a 0:18:06.238 --> 0:18:10.408 long it's a it's an unambitious very unambitious 28 years. 0:18:10.408 --> 0:18:13.528 I mean who can think that far ahead. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 0:18:13.528 --> 0:18:17.248 And and it also leads to your another several lots 0:18:17.248 --> 0:18:20.608 of generations of children being segregated. You know we've got 0:18:20.608 --> 0:18:22.348 to look at that as being a basic human right. 0:18:22.348 --> 0:18:25.708 Not segregating children based on difference. You know, we wouldn't 0:18:25.708 --> 0:18:27.808 do this for any other cohort. Why should we do 0:18:27.808 --> 0:18:29.848 this for disability? You know, and if we want to 0:18:29.848 --> 0:18:33.028 look at the drivers of violence against disability segregation is 0:18:33.028 --> 0:18:36.508 that big driver of violence against us. And we want 0:18:36.508 --> 0:18:39.268 to shift community attitudes towards people with disability. Well, we're 0:18:39.268 --> 0:18:41.188 not going to do that if we're not visible in 0:18:41.188 --> 0:18:43.678 the world around us. So if we're telling children as 0:18:43.678 --> 0:18:46.648 young as five or under that those kids are different. 0:18:46.648 --> 0:18:49.408 So therefore they learn over there in that classroom or 0:18:49.408 --> 0:18:51.388 in that school over there, and not in the same 0:18:51.388 --> 0:18:54.868 classroom as you. And we're telling disabled children that you're 0:18:54.868 --> 0:18:58.168 different and you don't belong. Well, we're setting in stone 0:18:58.168 --> 0:19:01.978 already at a young age, the fear of disabled people, 0:19:01.978 --> 0:19:07.418 discrimination of disabled people and reinforcing those stigmas of difference of. People, 0:19:07.418 --> 0:19:10.538 rather than seeing us as just kids alongside other kids 0:19:10.538 --> 0:19:13.928 playing in the playground. So that's a really important piece 0:19:13.928 --> 0:19:15.398 that we, you know, we want to see worked on. 0:19:15.398 --> 0:19:18.008 But the 28 year mark is far too long. That 0:19:18.008 --> 0:19:21.788 needs to be a much more ambitious timeline for that one. 0:19:21.788 --> 0:19:25.508 And the other sort of bits and pieces around segregated housing. 0:19:25.508 --> 0:19:28.418 Everybody should have the right to choose where they live, 0:19:28.418 --> 0:19:31.148 who they live with, and how they live their lives 0:19:31.148 --> 0:19:34.238 and the environments in which they live in. So abolishing 0:19:34.238 --> 0:19:37.838 group homes is really, really vital now. Like just like 0:19:37.838 --> 0:19:40.358 anybody else leaving home, some people want to go and 0:19:40.358 --> 0:19:42.128 live in a share house, but they get a choice 0:19:42.128 --> 0:19:44.258 in who they live in that share house with. It's 0:19:44.258 --> 0:19:46.748 the same for disabled people. Some disabled people might want 0:19:46.748 --> 0:19:49.598 to live with others and share an environment and share 0:19:49.598 --> 0:19:52.778 a home, but having choice and control over who is 0:19:52.778 --> 0:19:56.048 in that environment, who lives with you, is the vital 0:19:56.048 --> 0:19:59.288 piece here that needs to be worked on, that hopefully 0:19:59.288 --> 0:20:01.898 that that is something that will be prioritized. You know, 0:20:01.898 --> 0:20:04.268 with the government task force that's been announced that they're 0:20:04.268 --> 0:20:06.638 looking to set up, unfortunately, we don't have a lot 0:20:06.638 --> 0:20:09.248 of details around what they mean by that government task force. 0:20:09.248 --> 0:20:11.858 So far, on the surface value, it has been very 0:20:11.858 --> 0:20:16.358 much committing to government departments with advice from the disability community. 0:20:16.358 --> 0:20:18.488 You know, we don't want to be advising from the 0:20:18.488 --> 0:20:22.088 outside into a task force that's looking at implementing the 0:20:22.088 --> 0:20:24.998 royal commission. You know, we want broad representation in the 0:20:24.998 --> 0:20:28.958 room alongside government on how we're implementing this royal commission 0:20:28.958 --> 0:20:32.018 and its recommendations. So, you know, that task force is 0:20:32.018 --> 0:20:34.658 a vital piece of the puzzle here so that we 0:20:34.658 --> 0:20:37.538 are in the room, we're with the decision makers and 0:20:37.538 --> 0:20:40.508 we are overseeing what do we mean, how do we 0:20:40.508 --> 0:20:44.048 define segregation on our terms and not what other people 0:20:44.048 --> 0:20:47.108 define as segregation for us? And that's been a bit 0:20:47.108 --> 0:20:50.408 of a debate around, you know, education and what other 0:20:50.408 --> 0:20:55.208 people assume or classify as segregation, um, which isn't necessarily 0:20:55.208 --> 0:20:58.328 the same as what how we conceptualize segregation. 0:20:58.478 --> 0:21:03.368 You've given us quite a great deal of ideas, perspective, 0:21:03.368 --> 0:21:08.858 and your perspective individually, just there in response to the findings. 0:21:08.858 --> 0:21:13.238 So thank you very much for that. But I also understand, 0:21:13.238 --> 0:21:16.118 and I believe you would have been speaking to quite 0:21:16.118 --> 0:21:20.558 a few organizations and individuals over the past week, following 0:21:20.558 --> 0:21:25.178 on from the publication of the final report. So what 0:21:25.178 --> 0:21:28.538 have been the feelings there from your side of things, 0:21:28.538 --> 0:21:32.048 but also from those who you've spoken to in the 0:21:32.048 --> 0:21:33.638 sector over the past week? 0:21:33.848 --> 0:21:36.638 I think one of the things that's really I shouldn't 0:21:36.638 --> 0:21:38.978 be surprised, but I'm kind of shocked at that I've 0:21:38.978 --> 0:21:42.248 seen coming out and from other people in the sector 0:21:42.248 --> 0:21:45.458 is the fact that we don't have a section on 0:21:45.458 --> 0:21:49.628 women and girls with disability, considering we experience much higher 0:21:49.628 --> 0:21:52.898 rates of violence and neglect and abuse than other cohorts 0:21:52.898 --> 0:21:55.508 in the community, including, you know, quite high rates of 0:21:55.508 --> 0:21:59.858 sexual violence, we have the lowest rates of education inclusion, 0:21:59.858 --> 0:22:02.228 and we have the lowest employment rates out of the 0:22:02.228 --> 0:22:05.288 entire community. Yet there was no discussion in the Royal 0:22:05.288 --> 0:22:09.218 Commission around bringing up that gender equity piece. So that's 0:22:09.218 --> 0:22:11.528 kind of disappointing if I can put that sort of 0:22:11.528 --> 0:22:15.488 side around gender and gender based violence into perspective. Victoria 0:22:15.488 --> 0:22:17.918 had a Royal Commission into Family Violence that handed down 0:22:17.918 --> 0:22:21.908 a report in 2016. Now, considering that this is just 0:22:21.908 --> 0:22:26.228 a royal commission into violence, gender based violence in one state, 0:22:26.228 --> 0:22:28.598 so one area of our lives, it came out with 0:22:28.598 --> 0:22:34.088 227 recommendations. Ten of those were dedicated to people with disability. Now, 0:22:34.088 --> 0:22:36.818 it's disappointing to see that women and girls and gender 0:22:36.818 --> 0:22:40.628 diverse people are only mentioned across four recommendations for, you know, 0:22:40.628 --> 0:22:44.288 the Disability Royal Commission, which is meant to be investigating 0:22:44.288 --> 0:22:48.458 violence that spans the course of our lifetime. So from 0:22:48.458 --> 0:22:51.938 birth to the day we die. So it's disappointing to 0:22:51.938 --> 0:22:54.608 see that that hasn't come through. And this is where 0:22:54.608 --> 0:22:57.068 we need that representation in the room with that task force, 0:22:57.068 --> 0:22:59.558 because that conversation needs to be had. Well, yet we 0:22:59.558 --> 0:23:01.958 want to end violence against all people with disability, but 0:23:01.958 --> 0:23:04.358 we also want to bring up the equity of women 0:23:04.358 --> 0:23:07.808 and girls with disability who are experiencing higher rates of 0:23:07.808 --> 0:23:11.528 violence and sexual violence than other areas of the disability community. 0:23:11.528 --> 0:23:15.308 And what can we do around prevention and safeguarding for 0:23:15.308 --> 0:23:18.158 women and girls with disability? So that was one of 0:23:18.158 --> 0:23:21.158 the big reflections that I've seen come out of the community, 0:23:21.158 --> 0:23:23.078 you know, noting that, you know, gender based violence is 0:23:23.078 --> 0:23:25.448 something that I sunk my teeth into when I came 0:23:25.448 --> 0:23:29.258 into activism as a family violence survivor. So it's something 0:23:29.258 --> 0:23:31.568 that is very core and personal to me. And it's 0:23:31.568 --> 0:23:33.908 also the hearing in which I gave my own personal 0:23:33.908 --> 0:23:37.448 evidence to as well, around the experience of violence against 0:23:37.448 --> 0:23:40.268 women with disabilities, including my own experience. So that's an 0:23:40.268 --> 0:23:43.928 area that is lacking that needs to have some uplift 0:23:43.928 --> 0:23:46.868 in regards to it. And I guess it's good that 0:23:46.868 --> 0:23:50.588 we're looking at how do we reduce restricted practice, how 0:23:50.588 --> 0:23:55.178 do we move away from using seclusion and restraints against 0:23:55.178 --> 0:23:57.788 people with disability? But I don't feel that it quite 0:23:57.788 --> 0:24:00.308 goes far enough. We don't want to be using language 0:24:00.308 --> 0:24:03.068 around reducing restrictive practices. We want to be using language 0:24:03.068 --> 0:24:06.428 around abolishing restrictive practice. We want to be looking at. 0:24:06.588 --> 0:24:09.828 Pathways with dedicated time frames around, well, how do we 0:24:09.828 --> 0:24:13.248 end the use of restrictive practice, seclusion and restraint? How 0:24:13.248 --> 0:24:15.528 do we do that in all environments in which our 0:24:15.528 --> 0:24:20.088 lives are, you know, situated, including group homes, schools, health 0:24:20.088 --> 0:24:22.908 and mental health settings across the board and in the 0:24:22.908 --> 0:24:25.938 justice setting as well, so that all areas are safe 0:24:25.938 --> 0:24:28.038 for us to engage with because at the moment they're 0:24:28.038 --> 0:24:31.668 currently not. And unfortunately, it feels like there's just different 0:24:31.668 --> 0:24:35.898 language being put to services justifying the use of these practices, 0:24:35.898 --> 0:24:39.438 which do already exist, and they will continue to justify 0:24:39.438 --> 0:24:42.318 the use of it unless we actually give clear boundaries 0:24:42.318 --> 0:24:44.598 around no, we don't want to be reducing, we want 0:24:44.598 --> 0:24:47.568 to be abolishing, and you need to be looking at 0:24:47.568 --> 0:24:50.928 and addressing the environments in which people are existing in 0:24:50.928 --> 0:24:55.038 or engaging with services in that lead to an escalation 0:24:55.038 --> 0:24:59.538 of distress that then leads to the use of restrictive practice. 0:24:59.538 --> 0:25:01.788 So that's again why we need to be in the room. 0:25:01.788 --> 0:25:03.768 We need to be defining what that looks like. We 0:25:03.768 --> 0:25:05.508 need to be putting the language to that. And we 0:25:05.508 --> 0:25:07.848 need to be setting some clear boundaries around what do 0:25:07.848 --> 0:25:11.028 we actually mean by, you know, abolishing these things, and 0:25:11.028 --> 0:25:13.158 how do we go about doing it? And, you know, 0:25:13.158 --> 0:25:15.288 what are the steps that need to be taken? And 0:25:15.288 --> 0:25:18.078 the language used to draw a line very clearly in 0:25:18.078 --> 0:25:20.418 the sand, that there's not going to be any excuses 0:25:20.418 --> 0:25:23.448 moving forward, that these measures have to be taken and just, 0:25:23.448 --> 0:25:26.148 you know, putting other words around how to justify the 0:25:26.148 --> 0:25:29.868 continuation of these forms of practices need to be stamped out. 0:25:30.078 --> 0:25:34.188 And if people want to get in touch with Pueda 0:25:34.188 --> 0:25:38.328 and talk to somebody about their experiences or their feelings 0:25:38.328 --> 0:25:42.858 about the final report and the outcomes from the Royal Commission, 0:25:42.858 --> 0:25:45.588 what's the best way for people to get in touch 0:25:45.588 --> 0:25:46.248 with you? 0:25:46.278 --> 0:25:48.918 I guess via our email channels, which can be found 0:25:48.918 --> 0:25:52.518 on our website, to make contact with the organisation or 0:25:52.518 --> 0:25:55.518 if you need support, with individualised advocacy on different issues. 0:25:55.518 --> 0:25:57.738 But the other one, like if you just want to 0:25:57.738 --> 0:26:01.038 sort of discuss struggling with what the report contains or 0:26:01.038 --> 0:26:03.168 a lot of emotions that are sitting with this report, 0:26:03.168 --> 0:26:06.138 is that Blue Note is still offering counselling moving forward 0:26:06.138 --> 0:26:08.628 for people, and they're a really good service that support 0:26:08.628 --> 0:26:11.538 people with complex trauma. And they were involved in the 0:26:11.538 --> 0:26:14.808 commission and supporting people who were giving evidence. So, you know, 0:26:14.808 --> 0:26:17.688 there's always blue not to go to, to discuss what 0:26:17.688 --> 0:26:20.388 you're going through or, you know, just even debriefing on 0:26:20.388 --> 0:26:22.428 how you feel about the report. But I guess always, 0:26:22.428 --> 0:26:24.678 you know, sort of reach out to people via email 0:26:24.678 --> 0:26:28.518 with your thoughts. We will be putting together possibly some 0:26:28.518 --> 0:26:31.668 surveys moving forward to ask people some questions around what 0:26:31.668 --> 0:26:34.308 are their priorities, what do they feel needs to be 0:26:34.308 --> 0:26:36.558 actioned on quicker over others so we can get a 0:26:36.558 --> 0:26:39.438 sense from the community around what it is they want 0:26:39.438 --> 0:26:43.848 us to be advocating for as a priority above other things. 0:26:43.848 --> 0:26:46.278 So that is something that will be coming out further 0:26:46.278 --> 0:26:48.108 down the track once we've had a bit more of 0:26:48.108 --> 0:26:51.168 a chance to really, you know, go over all of 0:26:51.168 --> 0:26:54.378 the report and its recommendations and put something together to 0:26:54.378 --> 0:26:56.928 engage with the community to get their feelings and thoughts 0:26:56.928 --> 0:26:59.778 on the commission. And where do we move to first? 0:27:00.138 --> 0:27:04.668 I've been speaking today with Nicole Lee, president of people 0:27:04.668 --> 0:27:10.938 with Disabilities Australia, about the recently published final report from 0:27:10.938 --> 0:27:21.798 the Disability Royal Commission. And that's all the time we 0:27:21.798 --> 0:27:26.568 have for today on this holiday special edition of Talking Vision. 0:27:27.018 --> 0:27:31.968 Talking vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks 0:27:31.968 --> 0:27:35.598 to all involved with putting this show together every week 0:27:35.598 --> 0:27:39.978 and as always, we encourage any feedback and comments, so 0:27:39.978 --> 0:27:44.298 do feel free to get in touch anytime at Talking Vision. 0:27:44.298 --> 0:27:49.398 At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all. One word at 0:27:49.398 --> 0:27:54.078 Vision australia.org to have your say. This is Sam Colley, 0:27:54.078 --> 0:27:58.728 wishing you all a very happy and safe holiday period 0:27:58.728 --> 0:28:04.038 and a fantastic new year. So until next week it's 0:28:04.038 --> 0:28:05.028 bye for now. 0:28:08.648 --> 0:28:12.698 You can contact Virgin Australia by phoning us anytime during 0:28:12.698 --> 0:28:21.578 business hours on one 308 4746. That's one 384 746 0:28:21.578 --> 0:28:26.828 or by visiting Vision australia.org. That's Vision Australia call.