S1: Hello everyone. Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition available from
S1: October the 8th, 2024. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have
S1: you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated
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S1: Australia radio talking tech podcast. Vision Australia radio talking tech
S1: podcast with me. Vision Australia's national access technology manager Damien McMorrow. Hey, Damo.
S2: Hi, Stephen. How are you?
S1: I'm very well and enjoying the technology season that we
S1: have at the moment with so much happening, not just
S1: in the Apple world, but other things happening. And one
S1: of those is in ChatGPT and you've been playing with
S1: that a bit lately?
S2: Yes I have. I had a situation a week or
S2: so back where I had bought a handheld VHF marine
S2: radio for my boat, and the manual, as tends to
S2: happen with these things, wasn't particularly accessible. You could OCR
S2: the PDF, but anywhere where they referenced a button, it
S2: just read it as a graphic or not at all.
S2: So you would hear the to adjust the volume, press
S2: the button. And I thought, well, that's not particularly useful. So, uh,
S2: I discovered that we could upload a document to ChatGPT.
S2: So you open open it. Um, in a web browser,
S2: you may be able to do it from the app,
S2: but I just did it from the, from a browser
S2: and next to the edit box where you normally can
S2: type in and ask it questions, is a button that
S2: allows you to browse for a file. And I just
S2: browsed to the PDF and uploaded it, and then I
S2: was able to ask questions in the usual way. So
S2: by typing into the edit box, how do I adjust
S2: the volume? How do I enable dual watch mode? Uh,
S2: how do you charge the radio? Those sorts of things.
S2: And I was able to get, you know, quite intelligible
S2: and sensible answers from it. So basically what it does
S2: is it processes the document and then allows you to
S2: ask questions about that particular file or that particular document.
S2: So really handy if you've got, you know, a mainstream product,
S2: perhaps where you've downloaded the user manual from somewhere and
S2: there's all kinds of annoying graphics that representing the buttons,
S2: and they don't work very well with the screen reader. Um,
S2: it gives you a different way of being able to
S2: sort of interpret that information and, and get the, the
S2: things that you need. It's also good because you can
S2: just ask it for the information that you want, rather
S2: than having to read through things in multiple languages. I
S2: had an instance yesterday where I'd bought a new coffee
S2: machine and every page had the same instructions in German,
S2: Italian and English. And so again, reading that with a
S2: screen reader was a bit of a nightmare.
S1: So you did this from a web page rather than
S1: from the ChatGPT app, is that right?
S2: That's right. Just ChatGPT. Com the easiest way to find
S2: the button is to find the edit box, where you
S2: normally would type in your questions and then shift tab
S2: back once there's a button there that allow you to
S2: browse for a file.
S1: So do you sign in via your account to do that?
S2: Yes. You do, yes. So you still need an account,
S2: but it can be a free account. It doesn't have
S2: to be a paid account to use that facility. Yeah.
S1: Very interesting. Let's move on. Now. Our conversation last week
S1: was about the the meta Ray-Ban smart glasses. And you've
S1: got some further thoughts about that.
S2: Yes, I've had a few questions during the week. You know,
S2: people sort of saying, well, there's the Ray-Ban meta glasses.
S2: There's the Arc Vision headset. Which should I go with?
S2: What do they do? Well, which one would you choose?
S2: All of that kind of thing. So I just thought
S2: it might be worth having a little bit of a
S2: discussion around that. Um, given that the number of questions
S2: of that sort that I've had. So the Arcs vision
S2: headset is for those that haven't come across it yet,
S2: it looks like a bone conduction type headset. So, um,
S2: the headband goes around the back of your head and
S2: there are two earpieces which, rather than covering your ears,
S2: actually sit just forward of your ears and it conducts
S2: the sound through the bones of your face. And then
S2: on the right hand side of the headset is a
S2: camera module, which is a small rectangular box. The camera
S2: points forward and there are three buttons. There's a triangular button,
S2: a square button, and a round button to control the headset,
S2: and it plugs in via USB-C to your phone. You
S2: run the vision app and it has a number of
S2: different modes. So it has a scene mode where it
S2: pretty much gives you sort of a running commentary of
S2: whatever the camera can see. It has a short text
S2: mode and a document mode, which people who use seeing
S2: AI will be familiar with that. It sort of will
S2: scan the document and read it to you. It's essentially
S2: just an OCR function. It has a barcode reader, and
S2: it also has a what they call Q mode. And
S2: it's a bit like what we were talking about before
S2: with ChatGPT. So you can scan something like a menu,
S2: it'll give you guidance as to where to where to
S2: hold the page. And then you can ask it questions like,
S2: you know, how much are the chips? Or what are
S2: the what's the cheapest thing on the menu, that type
S2: of thing. There are some similarities, I guess, between um,
S2: ARX vision and the Ray-Ban meta glasses, but there are
S2: also some fairly significant differences. I have had an extensive
S2: look at both and tried them in different situations. In
S2: terms of which one would suit or which one I'd recommend.
S2: It really depends on what you're trying to do. So
S2: I think that the the vision is much better for
S2: document reading because the, the meta glasses always want to
S2: summarize rather than read the document from beginning to end,
S2: which can be a little bit frustrating. The scene mode
S2: is quite nice in that it does give you a
S2: sort of a running commentary. I was walking along the, um,
S2: near my my home and it said, uh, a man
S2: riding a bicycle along a sidewalk. And I thought, oh,
S2: I wonder what that's actually saying. And then three seconds later,
S2: a guy on a bike shot past me and rang
S2: his bell. So it was actually correct. So having that
S2: information there at your fingertips, as it were, is quite,
S2: quite nice. Um, it can be a little overwhelming though,
S2: because it does give you sort of a constant stream.
S2: Whereas with the meta glasses you have to you have
S2: to prompt it and ask it, you know, hey, meta,
S2: look and tell me what you see. So it sort
S2: of depends on whether you like that constant stream of
S2: information about the visual environment or whether you just want
S2: it when you when you query it. So it kind
S2: of depends, I think, on whether the AI capability is
S2: more important to you or whether you really just want
S2: the document reading capability. But the other part of the equation, too,
S2: is that the scene mode with ARX vision does interpret.
S2: So it'll describe what it can see, but it will
S2: also read text. So you don't have to sort of
S2: prompt and say, look and tell me if there's any text.
S2: Look and tell me if there's any signage. Basically if
S2: the camera can see it, whether it's text or other objects,
S2: it will read it to you. So I think it
S2: kind of depends on what you what you want it
S2: for at the moment. At the time that we this
S2: goes to air, the ARX vision is only Android compatible.
S2: We will have an iPhone adapter very soon for it,
S2: but at this point in time it's Android only. Um,
S2: and it is a cable connection. So that's something that
S2: might be a problem for people, um, having to having
S2: to have that wired connection to your phone.
S1: One plus with the meta glasses is the capability of
S1: having a friend or an agent through be my eyes
S1: talking to you and reading what you're seeing.
S2: That's right. And being able to do that through things
S2: like WhatsApp and so on. The only other consideration is
S2: that obviously the vision is a specialized device and is
S2: therefore NDIS consumables eligible, whereas the meta glasses would be
S2: regarded as an everyday item, so you wouldn't really be
S2: able to get them funded through NDIS. So that's something
S2: that might also be a consideration. So my advice would
S2: be to, you know, if you're if you're not sure,
S2: think about what it is that you're you most wanting
S2: to use it for. And also whether the wired connection
S2: is a problem for you, whether you want just the
S2: AI capability or whether your main use case is document
S2: reading and have a look, have a good look at them.
S2: Pop into a vision store. Take the vision for a
S2: test run, head into your local sunglasses shop and have
S2: a look at the the meta glasses and choose what
S2: works for you.
S1: I think that's very helpful what you've been explaining there
S1: over the last few minutes. A shout out to David Woodbridge,
S1: who was my partner in crime for this program for
S1: 12 years. David is now with Humanware Australia as a
S1: blindness product specialist, so we'll be seeing him around the
S1: traps quite a lot, and we'll be talking to him
S1: from time to time. But he'll be a human wear
S1: authority on things like the the monarch, the brilliant range
S1: of devices, the Victor stream and the stellar Trek devices.
S1: And the monarch is actually going to be front and
S1: center this week.
S2: Yes. So there is a launch event happening on the
S2: 10th of October. That's at 11 a.m. Australian Eastern Daylight Time,
S2: because of course we're in summer time now here in Australia.
S2: Humanware in conjunction with quantum are running that one. And
S2: the monarch has been a sort of a long awaited product.
S2: We've heard lots about it over the last 12 months,
S2: and so it'll be nice for it to be officially
S2: launched here in Oz. For those who, um, aren't familiar
S2: with it, it is essentially a Braille tablet device, so
S2: it's a multi-line braille display that can also display tactile graphics.
S2: And if you're familiar with the sort of kingsoft suite
S2: of applications that exist on the brilliant and the Braillenote
S2: touch products and those kinds of things, a lot of
S2: those applications are present on the monarch, but we do
S2: also have the tactile graphics viewer. The unit itself is
S2: about the size of a large gaming laptop. So sort
S2: of a 15 inch gaming laptop and around about the
S2: same sort of weight. But, uh, it is an exciting product,
S2: I think, particularly for, uh, people in doing those sort
S2: of Stem subjects science, technology, engineering and maths and those
S2: sorts of things, or people who just want to be
S2: able to read more than one line of Braille at
S2: a time.
S1: It's going to cost a bit.
S2: It is. Yes. The the last figure that I had
S2: heard was in the order of $27,000. So certainly not
S2: cheap and not something that you would purchase lightly. But
S2: I think, you know, for for those who need that
S2: sort of functionality where they're dealing with high level maths
S2: or graphical concepts or, um, you know, wanting to take
S2: a lot of, uh, Braille material with them on the go.
S2: It may be a good option, particularly in the education
S2: space I think. Mhm.
S1: Yes. So that's this Thursday, the launch of that device
S1: in Australia. Does that mean it's going to be available
S1: for sale straight away.
S2: Yes I believe so. Yes. Great.
S1: Yeah. I want to have a quick word with you
S1: about a very useful Vision Australia service, the help desk,
S1: which comes under your portfolio.
S2: It does. It's one that's quite close to my heart.
S2: So the help desk is there to provide phone and
S2: email support for access technology queries. So it could be
S2: anything from what's a good accessible phone option to my
S2: jaws has suddenly stopped speaking. What do I do? All
S2: of those sorts of access, tech type questions, general advice,
S2: that type of thing. And the team is fully staffed
S2: by people with lived experience. So I have two people
S2: on the team who are full time screen reader users,
S2: two who are full time magnification users, although all of
S2: them are familiar with all of the products. And their
S2: team leader Jim Piepszak has been in the access tech
S2: space for a very long time as well. So there's
S2: a lot of a lot of expertise there, a lot
S2: of passion in terms of, you know, using the tech
S2: in their in their daily lives. And they're also very,
S2: very diligent. If they don't know the answer, they will
S2: do the research and come back to you if they
S2: can't solve it straight away. But we obviously try to
S2: solve as much as we can, um, with the customer
S2: on the phone.
S1: So the way to reach the Vision Australia Technology Help
S1: desk is.
S2: To ring the Vision Australia main number 130847406. That's one
S2: 300 vision and just ask for the Access Technology help
S2: desk and it's available. 8:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. Australian
S2: Eastern Daylight Time, Monday to Friday.
S1: One 308 474661 300 vision. Before we go, a reminder
S1: of where there are details of what we've been talking
S1: about in this and previous editions of the program, you
S1: can just go to VA radio.org/talking tech. VA radio, dot
S1: org slash talking tech and to right to the program.
S2: Damo Damo dot McMorrow m c m o w r
S2: o w at Vision Australia.
S1: Org Damo dot McMorrow at Vision australia.org. This has been
S1: talking tech with me has been Vision Australia's national access
S1: technology manager Damo McMorrow. I'm Stephen Jolly. Take care. We'll
S1: talk more tech next week. See you.