WEBVTT - Talking Tech 8th October 2024 0:00:33.443 --> 0:00:37.223 Hello everyone. Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition available from 0:00:37.223 --> 0:00:41.543 October the 8th, 2024. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have 0:00:41.543 --> 0:00:45.353 you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated 0:00:45.353 --> 0:00:49.433 stations of the Radio Reading Network or the Community Radio Network. 0:00:49.463 --> 0:00:52.043 There is also the podcast. To catch that, all you 0:00:52.043 --> 0:00:54.683 need to do is search for the two words. Talking 0:00:54.713 --> 0:00:57.383 tech and an icon will come usually on a Tuesday 0:00:57.383 --> 0:01:00.863 afternoon just after it's been produced. Another option is to 0:01:00.893 --> 0:01:04.223 ask your Siri device or smart speaker to play Vision 0:01:04.253 --> 0:01:10.163 Australia radio talking tech podcast. Vision Australia radio talking tech 0:01:10.163 --> 0:01:18.413 podcast with me. Vision Australia's national access technology manager Damien McMorrow. Hey, Damo. 0:01:18.503 --> 0:01:19.703 Hi, Stephen. How are you? 0:01:19.733 --> 0:01:23.603 I'm very well and enjoying the technology season that we 0:01:23.603 --> 0:01:26.482 have at the moment with so much happening, not just 0:01:26.483 --> 0:01:28.793 in the Apple world, but other things happening. And one 0:01:28.793 --> 0:01:31.193 of those is in ChatGPT and you've been playing with 0:01:31.193 --> 0:01:32.182 that a bit lately? 0:01:32.233 --> 0:01:36.103 Yes I have. I had a situation a week or 0:01:36.103 --> 0:01:40.663 so back where I had bought a handheld VHF marine 0:01:40.663 --> 0:01:45.403 radio for my boat, and the manual, as tends to 0:01:45.403 --> 0:01:49.873 happen with these things, wasn't particularly accessible. You could OCR 0:01:49.903 --> 0:01:53.623 the PDF, but anywhere where they referenced a button, it 0:01:53.623 --> 0:01:56.053 just read it as a graphic or not at all. 0:01:56.053 --> 0:01:58.693 So you would hear the to adjust the volume, press 0:01:58.693 --> 0:02:04.633 the button. And I thought, well, that's not particularly useful. So, uh, 0:02:04.633 --> 0:02:10.513 I discovered that we could upload a document to ChatGPT. 0:02:10.543 --> 0:02:14.593 So you open open it. Um, in a web browser, 0:02:14.863 --> 0:02:16.393 you may be able to do it from the app, 0:02:16.393 --> 0:02:19.513 but I just did it from the, from a browser 0:02:19.513 --> 0:02:23.623 and next to the edit box where you normally can 0:02:23.623 --> 0:02:27.373 type in and ask it questions, is a button that 0:02:27.373 --> 0:02:30.553 allows you to browse for a file. And I just 0:02:30.583 --> 0:02:34.233 browsed to the PDF and uploaded it, and then I 0:02:34.233 --> 0:02:37.683 was able to ask questions in the usual way. So 0:02:37.683 --> 0:02:40.323 by typing into the edit box, how do I adjust 0:02:40.322 --> 0:02:44.642 the volume? How do I enable dual watch mode? Uh, 0:02:44.643 --> 0:02:48.032 how do you charge the radio? Those sorts of things. 0:02:48.032 --> 0:02:51.093 And I was able to get, you know, quite intelligible 0:02:51.093 --> 0:02:54.423 and sensible answers from it. So basically what it does 0:02:54.423 --> 0:02:57.273 is it processes the document and then allows you to 0:02:57.303 --> 0:03:01.382 ask questions about that particular file or that particular document. 0:03:01.382 --> 0:03:05.702 So really handy if you've got, you know, a mainstream product, 0:03:05.703 --> 0:03:10.083 perhaps where you've downloaded the user manual from somewhere and 0:03:10.083 --> 0:03:13.533 there's all kinds of annoying graphics that representing the buttons, 0:03:13.532 --> 0:03:16.593 and they don't work very well with the screen reader. Um, 0:03:16.623 --> 0:03:19.233 it gives you a different way of being able to 0:03:19.262 --> 0:03:22.443 sort of interpret that information and, and get the, the 0:03:22.442 --> 0:03:25.802 things that you need. It's also good because you can 0:03:25.803 --> 0:03:29.672 just ask it for the information that you want, rather 0:03:29.673 --> 0:03:33.153 than having to read through things in multiple languages. I 0:03:33.153 --> 0:03:36.593 had an instance yesterday where I'd bought a new coffee 0:03:36.593 --> 0:03:40.672 machine and every page had the same instructions in German, 0:03:40.673 --> 0:03:43.973 Italian and English. And so again, reading that with a 0:03:43.973 --> 0:03:45.623 screen reader was a bit of a nightmare. 0:03:45.623 --> 0:03:49.163 So you did this from a web page rather than 0:03:49.163 --> 0:03:51.413 from the ChatGPT app, is that right? 0:03:51.443 --> 0:03:56.063 That's right. Just ChatGPT. Com the easiest way to find 0:03:56.063 --> 0:03:59.633 the button is to find the edit box, where you 0:03:59.663 --> 0:04:02.843 normally would type in your questions and then shift tab 0:04:02.873 --> 0:04:05.843 back once there's a button there that allow you to 0:04:05.933 --> 0:04:07.013 browse for a file. 0:04:07.013 --> 0:04:09.593 So do you sign in via your account to do that? 0:04:09.623 --> 0:04:12.233 Yes. You do, yes. So you still need an account, 0:04:12.232 --> 0:04:14.363 but it can be a free account. It doesn't have 0:04:14.363 --> 0:04:17.273 to be a paid account to use that facility. Yeah. 0:04:17.573 --> 0:04:22.433 Very interesting. Let's move on. Now. Our conversation last week 0:04:22.433 --> 0:04:27.773 was about the the meta Ray-Ban smart glasses. And you've 0:04:27.773 --> 0:04:30.233 got some further thoughts about that. 0:04:30.263 --> 0:04:33.563 Yes, I've had a few questions during the week. You know, 0:04:33.593 --> 0:04:37.153 people sort of saying, well, there's the Ray-Ban meta glasses. 0:04:37.153 --> 0:04:41.563 There's the Arc Vision headset. Which should I go with? 0:04:41.563 --> 0:04:44.203 What do they do? Well, which one would you choose? 0:04:44.203 --> 0:04:46.243 All of that kind of thing. So I just thought 0:04:46.243 --> 0:04:47.683 it might be worth having a little bit of a 0:04:47.683 --> 0:04:50.863 discussion around that. Um, given that the number of questions 0:04:50.863 --> 0:04:55.183 of that sort that I've had. So the Arcs vision 0:04:55.183 --> 0:04:58.993 headset is for those that haven't come across it yet, 0:04:59.023 --> 0:05:03.103 it looks like a bone conduction type headset. So, um, 0:05:03.103 --> 0:05:05.833 the headband goes around the back of your head and 0:05:05.833 --> 0:05:09.493 there are two earpieces which, rather than covering your ears, 0:05:09.523 --> 0:05:12.853 actually sit just forward of your ears and it conducts 0:05:12.853 --> 0:05:16.333 the sound through the bones of your face. And then 0:05:16.333 --> 0:05:19.813 on the right hand side of the headset is a 0:05:19.813 --> 0:05:24.373 camera module, which is a small rectangular box. The camera 0:05:24.373 --> 0:05:28.903 points forward and there are three buttons. There's a triangular button, 0:05:28.933 --> 0:05:33.253 a square button, and a round button to control the headset, 0:05:33.283 --> 0:05:38.163 and it plugs in via USB-C to your phone. You 0:05:38.163 --> 0:05:41.283 run the vision app and it has a number of 0:05:41.283 --> 0:05:44.973 different modes. So it has a scene mode where it 0:05:44.973 --> 0:05:46.983 pretty much gives you sort of a running commentary of 0:05:46.983 --> 0:05:51.123 whatever the camera can see. It has a short text 0:05:51.123 --> 0:05:54.813 mode and a document mode, which people who use seeing 0:05:54.813 --> 0:05:57.183 AI will be familiar with that. It sort of will 0:05:57.183 --> 0:05:59.493 scan the document and read it to you. It's essentially 0:05:59.493 --> 0:06:02.973 just an OCR function. It has a barcode reader, and 0:06:02.973 --> 0:06:05.823 it also has a what they call Q mode. And 0:06:05.823 --> 0:06:07.443 it's a bit like what we were talking about before 0:06:07.443 --> 0:06:10.383 with ChatGPT. So you can scan something like a menu, 0:06:10.803 --> 0:06:12.723 it'll give you guidance as to where to where to 0:06:12.753 --> 0:06:15.873 hold the page. And then you can ask it questions like, 0:06:15.903 --> 0:06:17.823 you know, how much are the chips? Or what are 0:06:17.823 --> 0:06:19.863 the what's the cheapest thing on the menu, that type 0:06:19.893 --> 0:06:24.693 of thing. There are some similarities, I guess, between um, 0:06:24.723 --> 0:06:28.533 ARX vision and the Ray-Ban meta glasses, but there are 0:06:28.533 --> 0:06:33.513 also some fairly significant differences. I have had an extensive 0:06:33.873 --> 0:06:37.683 look at both and tried them in different situations. In 0:06:37.703 --> 0:06:40.433 terms of which one would suit or which one I'd recommend. 0:06:40.433 --> 0:06:42.563 It really depends on what you're trying to do. So 0:06:42.563 --> 0:06:47.153 I think that the the vision is much better for 0:06:47.153 --> 0:06:51.893 document reading because the, the meta glasses always want to 0:06:51.923 --> 0:06:55.133 summarize rather than read the document from beginning to end, 0:06:55.163 --> 0:06:58.823 which can be a little bit frustrating. The scene mode 0:06:58.823 --> 0:07:00.983 is quite nice in that it does give you a 0:07:01.013 --> 0:07:03.743 sort of a running commentary. I was walking along the, um, 0:07:04.103 --> 0:07:08.153 near my my home and it said, uh, a man 0:07:08.183 --> 0:07:10.613 riding a bicycle along a sidewalk. And I thought, oh, 0:07:10.613 --> 0:07:12.983 I wonder what that's actually saying. And then three seconds later, 0:07:13.013 --> 0:07:14.813 a guy on a bike shot past me and rang 0:07:14.813 --> 0:07:18.143 his bell. So it was actually correct. So having that 0:07:18.143 --> 0:07:21.683 information there at your fingertips, as it were, is quite, 0:07:21.713 --> 0:07:25.103 quite nice. Um, it can be a little overwhelming though, 0:07:25.103 --> 0:07:27.473 because it does give you sort of a constant stream. 0:07:27.473 --> 0:07:30.233 Whereas with the meta glasses you have to you have 0:07:30.233 --> 0:07:32.153 to prompt it and ask it, you know, hey, meta, 0:07:32.183 --> 0:07:34.523 look and tell me what you see. So it sort 0:07:34.553 --> 0:07:37.433 of depends on whether you like that constant stream of 0:07:37.433 --> 0:07:40.113 information about the visual environment or whether you just want 0:07:40.113 --> 0:07:43.143 it when you when you query it. So it kind 0:07:43.173 --> 0:07:45.843 of depends, I think, on whether the AI capability is 0:07:45.843 --> 0:07:48.303 more important to you or whether you really just want 0:07:48.333 --> 0:07:53.793 the document reading capability. But the other part of the equation, too, 0:07:53.823 --> 0:07:57.813 is that the scene mode with ARX vision does interpret. 0:07:57.813 --> 0:07:59.553 So it'll describe what it can see, but it will 0:07:59.553 --> 0:08:01.863 also read text. So you don't have to sort of 0:08:01.893 --> 0:08:03.873 prompt and say, look and tell me if there's any text. 0:08:03.903 --> 0:08:05.673 Look and tell me if there's any signage. Basically if 0:08:05.673 --> 0:08:08.793 the camera can see it, whether it's text or other objects, 0:08:08.793 --> 0:08:11.073 it will read it to you. So I think it 0:08:11.073 --> 0:08:13.413 kind of depends on what you what you want it 0:08:13.413 --> 0:08:16.773 for at the moment. At the time that we this 0:08:16.773 --> 0:08:20.703 goes to air, the ARX vision is only Android compatible. 0:08:20.703 --> 0:08:23.553 We will have an iPhone adapter very soon for it, 0:08:23.553 --> 0:08:26.463 but at this point in time it's Android only. Um, 0:08:26.493 --> 0:08:29.223 and it is a cable connection. So that's something that 0:08:29.223 --> 0:08:32.403 might be a problem for people, um, having to having 0:08:32.403 --> 0:08:34.563 to have that wired connection to your phone. 0:08:34.593 --> 0:08:39.873 One plus with the meta glasses is the capability of 0:08:39.893 --> 0:08:45.113 having a friend or an agent through be my eyes 0:08:45.143 --> 0:08:47.813 talking to you and reading what you're seeing. 0:08:47.843 --> 0:08:50.093 That's right. And being able to do that through things 0:08:50.093 --> 0:08:54.113 like WhatsApp and so on. The only other consideration is 0:08:54.112 --> 0:08:58.823 that obviously the vision is a specialized device and is 0:08:58.823 --> 0:09:04.793 therefore NDIS consumables eligible, whereas the meta glasses would be 0:09:04.793 --> 0:09:07.402 regarded as an everyday item, so you wouldn't really be 0:09:07.433 --> 0:09:10.223 able to get them funded through NDIS. So that's something 0:09:10.223 --> 0:09:13.793 that might also be a consideration. So my advice would 0:09:13.793 --> 0:09:16.102 be to, you know, if you're if you're not sure, 0:09:16.132 --> 0:09:19.463 think about what it is that you're you most wanting 0:09:19.492 --> 0:09:23.963 to use it for. And also whether the wired connection 0:09:23.963 --> 0:09:27.502 is a problem for you, whether you want just the 0:09:27.502 --> 0:09:30.292 AI capability or whether your main use case is document 0:09:30.323 --> 0:09:33.232 reading and have a look, have a good look at them. 0:09:33.232 --> 0:09:35.932 Pop into a vision store. Take the vision for a 0:09:35.933 --> 0:09:39.022 test run, head into your local sunglasses shop and have 0:09:39.022 --> 0:09:41.412 a look at the the meta glasses and choose what 0:09:41.413 --> 0:09:42.343 works for you. 0:09:42.372 --> 0:09:44.922 I think that's very helpful what you've been explaining there 0:09:44.923 --> 0:09:49.063 over the last few minutes. A shout out to David Woodbridge, 0:09:49.063 --> 0:09:52.122 who was my partner in crime for this program for 0:09:52.122 --> 0:09:57.013 12 years. David is now with Humanware Australia as a 0:09:57.012 --> 0:10:00.043 blindness product specialist, so we'll be seeing him around the 0:10:00.043 --> 0:10:01.902 traps quite a lot, and we'll be talking to him 0:10:01.902 --> 0:10:05.323 from time to time. But he'll be a human wear 0:10:05.323 --> 0:10:09.732 authority on things like the the monarch, the brilliant range 0:10:09.732 --> 0:10:14.053 of devices, the Victor stream and the stellar Trek devices. 0:10:14.053 --> 0:10:17.833 And the monarch is actually going to be front and 0:10:17.833 --> 0:10:19.213 center this week. 0:10:19.242 --> 0:10:22.382 Yes. So there is a launch event happening on the 0:10:22.382 --> 0:10:26.322 10th of October. That's at 11 a.m. Australian Eastern Daylight Time, 0:10:26.323 --> 0:10:30.012 because of course we're in summer time now here in Australia. 0:10:30.492 --> 0:10:34.423 Humanware in conjunction with quantum are running that one. And 0:10:34.573 --> 0:10:37.752 the monarch has been a sort of a long awaited product. 0:10:37.752 --> 0:10:40.032 We've heard lots about it over the last 12 months, 0:10:40.033 --> 0:10:43.053 and so it'll be nice for it to be officially 0:10:43.053 --> 0:10:47.583 launched here in Oz. For those who, um, aren't familiar 0:10:47.583 --> 0:10:50.943 with it, it is essentially a Braille tablet device, so 0:10:50.943 --> 0:10:56.282 it's a multi-line braille display that can also display tactile graphics. 0:10:56.283 --> 0:11:00.333 And if you're familiar with the sort of kingsoft suite 0:11:00.362 --> 0:11:04.622 of applications that exist on the brilliant and the Braillenote 0:11:04.652 --> 0:11:07.502 touch products and those kinds of things, a lot of 0:11:07.502 --> 0:11:10.533 those applications are present on the monarch, but we do 0:11:10.533 --> 0:11:14.732 also have the tactile graphics viewer. The unit itself is 0:11:14.762 --> 0:11:17.373 about the size of a large gaming laptop. So sort 0:11:17.372 --> 0:11:19.623 of a 15 inch gaming laptop and around about the 0:11:19.622 --> 0:11:23.913 same sort of weight. But, uh, it is an exciting product, 0:11:23.913 --> 0:11:27.392 I think, particularly for, uh, people in doing those sort 0:11:27.423 --> 0:11:30.663 of Stem subjects science, technology, engineering and maths and those 0:11:30.663 --> 0:11:32.912 sorts of things, or people who just want to be 0:11:32.943 --> 0:11:35.373 able to read more than one line of Braille at 0:11:35.372 --> 0:11:36.183 a time. 0:11:36.213 --> 0:11:37.442 It's going to cost a bit. 0:11:37.683 --> 0:11:41.102 It is. Yes. The the last figure that I had 0:11:41.102 --> 0:11:45.803 heard was in the order of $27,000. So certainly not 0:11:45.803 --> 0:11:50.662 cheap and not something that you would purchase lightly. But 0:11:50.663 --> 0:11:54.232 I think, you know, for for those who need that 0:11:54.262 --> 0:11:57.772 sort of functionality where they're dealing with high level maths 0:11:57.772 --> 0:12:01.162 or graphical concepts or, um, you know, wanting to take 0:12:01.163 --> 0:12:03.923 a lot of, uh, Braille material with them on the go. 0:12:03.953 --> 0:12:06.203 It may be a good option, particularly in the education 0:12:06.203 --> 0:12:07.793 space I think. Mhm. 0:12:08.063 --> 0:12:12.232 Yes. So that's this Thursday, the launch of that device 0:12:12.232 --> 0:12:14.093 in Australia. Does that mean it's going to be available 0:12:14.093 --> 0:12:15.713 for sale straight away. 0:12:15.742 --> 0:12:18.143 Yes I believe so. Yes. Great. 0:12:18.173 --> 0:12:20.153 Yeah. I want to have a quick word with you 0:12:20.152 --> 0:12:23.602 about a very useful Vision Australia service, the help desk, 0:12:23.602 --> 0:12:26.303 which comes under your portfolio. 0:12:26.333 --> 0:12:28.703 It does. It's one that's quite close to my heart. 0:12:28.703 --> 0:12:33.112 So the help desk is there to provide phone and 0:12:33.112 --> 0:12:37.852 email support for access technology queries. So it could be 0:12:37.852 --> 0:12:42.923 anything from what's a good accessible phone option to my 0:12:42.923 --> 0:12:45.852 jaws has suddenly stopped speaking. What do I do? All 0:12:45.852 --> 0:12:49.542 of those sorts of access, tech type questions, general advice, 0:12:49.543 --> 0:12:53.143 that type of thing. And the team is fully staffed 0:12:53.142 --> 0:12:57.943 by people with lived experience. So I have two people 0:12:57.973 --> 0:13:01.662 on the team who are full time screen reader users, 0:13:01.693 --> 0:13:05.173 two who are full time magnification users, although all of 0:13:05.173 --> 0:13:07.872 them are familiar with all of the products. And their 0:13:07.872 --> 0:13:10.573 team leader Jim Piepszak has been in the access tech 0:13:10.573 --> 0:13:13.362 space for a very long time as well. So there's 0:13:13.362 --> 0:13:15.372 a lot of a lot of expertise there, a lot 0:13:15.402 --> 0:13:17.803 of passion in terms of, you know, using the tech 0:13:17.803 --> 0:13:21.433 in their in their daily lives. And they're also very, 0:13:21.463 --> 0:13:24.703 very diligent. If they don't know the answer, they will 0:13:24.732 --> 0:13:27.132 do the research and come back to you if they 0:13:27.132 --> 0:13:29.202 can't solve it straight away. But we obviously try to 0:13:29.232 --> 0:13:32.773 solve as much as we can, um, with the customer 0:13:32.772 --> 0:13:33.553 on the phone. 0:13:33.553 --> 0:13:36.732 So the way to reach the Vision Australia Technology Help 0:13:36.762 --> 0:13:37.723 desk is. 0:13:37.723 --> 0:13:43.872 To ring the Vision Australia main number 130847406. That's one 0:13:43.902 --> 0:13:48.152 300 vision and just ask for the Access Technology help 0:13:48.183 --> 0:13:53.612 desk and it's available. 8:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. Australian 0:13:53.612 --> 0:13:56.433 Eastern Daylight Time, Monday to Friday. 0:13:56.463 --> 0:14:03.422 One 308 474661 300 vision. Before we go, a reminder 0:14:03.423 --> 0:14:06.453 of where there are details of what we've been talking 0:14:06.453 --> 0:14:09.512 about in this and previous editions of the program, you 0:14:09.512 --> 0:14:15.602 can just go to VA radio.org/talking tech. VA radio, dot 0:14:15.602 --> 0:14:19.293 org slash talking tech and to right to the program. 0:14:19.293 --> 0:14:24.782 Damo Damo dot McMorrow m c m o w r 0:14:24.783 --> 0:14:27.333 o w at Vision Australia. 0:14:27.753 --> 0:14:33.903 Org Damo dot McMorrow at Vision australia.org. This has been 0:14:33.903 --> 0:14:37.203 talking tech with me has been Vision Australia's national access 0:14:37.203 --> 0:14:41.703 technology manager Damo McMorrow. I'm Stephen Jolly. Take care. We'll 0:14:41.703 --> 0:14:43.143 talk more tech next week. See you.