WEBVTT - Talking Tech 11th March 2025 0:00:07.940 --> 0:00:12.110 Hello everyone. Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition, available from 0:00:12.110 --> 0:00:16.190 March the 11th, 2025. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have 0:00:16.190 --> 0:00:20.090 you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated 0:00:20.090 --> 0:00:24.020 stations of the Radio Reading Network or the Community Radio Network. 0:00:24.050 --> 0:00:26.930 There is also the podcast. To catch that, all you 0:00:26.930 --> 0:00:29.900 need to do is search for the two words talking 0:00:29.930 --> 0:00:32.330 tech and down. It can all come usually on a 0:00:32.330 --> 0:00:36.230 Tuesday afternoon just after it's been produced. Another option is 0:00:36.229 --> 0:00:39.139 to ask your Siri device or smart speaker to play. 0:00:39.169 --> 0:00:44.569 Vision Australia radio talking tech podcast. Vision Australia radio talking 0:00:44.599 --> 0:00:50.300 tech podcast. Normally with me is Damo McMorrow, Vision Australia's 0:00:50.330 --> 0:00:54.740 national manager on access technology. Damo is away at the moment. 0:00:54.740 --> 0:01:00.260 He's in California attending the CSUN event, the International Assistive 0:01:00.290 --> 0:01:03.920 Technology Conference, and will be chatting to him about that 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.330 when he comes back in a couple of weeks time. 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:13.449 Last Saturday, you may know, was International Women's Day, March 0:01:13.450 --> 0:01:17.490 the 8th. So what a timely moment for us to 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:24.000 celebrate the achievement of a woman in assistive or access technology. 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:29.429 And I'm very pleased to be speaking with Ramona. Mandy. Ramona, welcome. 0:01:29.429 --> 0:01:31.560 Hi, Steven. And I'm very pleased to be with you. 0:01:31.590 --> 0:01:32.430 Thank you. 0:01:32.580 --> 0:01:37.410 I first remember you making a difference for people back 0:01:37.410 --> 0:01:42.750 in the 1990s. You were working with Avebe Royal Victorian 0:01:42.750 --> 0:01:49.320 Institute for the blind as a Braille training instructor. But 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.360 you did more than that. You were following in the 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:55.080 footsteps of some other great influencers of people who had 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.609 recently lost their sight, like the late Ben Hewitt. Christine, 0:01:59.610 --> 0:02:03.460 now Simpson, who is my sister, I should disclose that 0:02:03.850 --> 0:02:09.220 and yourself who really mentored or were role models for 0:02:09.220 --> 0:02:13.000 people new to their vision loss. Tell us about that. 0:02:13.030 --> 0:02:15.160 Thanks, Stephen. And let me say, first of all, the 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:19.450 pleasure has truly been mine for my career in assistive technology. 0:02:19.540 --> 0:02:22.390 From a very young age at primary school, I wanted 0:02:22.390 --> 0:02:25.600 to be a teacher, but I also took well to 0:02:25.630 --> 0:02:28.870 technical things. I was forever the one fixing the dolls 0:02:28.870 --> 0:02:31.030 when their head or their arm fell off and wanted 0:02:31.060 --> 0:02:32.800 to know how things work. And I still like to 0:02:32.830 --> 0:02:37.120 know how things work. And so my role at Rvb, 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.720 when I was teaching Braille, I really enjoyed that because 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.510 I believe that knowledge is power. And I believe in 0:02:43.510 --> 0:02:46.900 sharing that knowledge and that power to empower people so 0:02:46.900 --> 0:02:50.470 they can do what they want to do with independence 0:02:50.470 --> 0:02:55.000 and confidence. And I really enjoyed my role at Rvb 0:02:55.030 --> 0:03:00.100 because it was my mixture of teaching and technology coming together, 0:03:00.100 --> 0:03:04.220 and certainly Christine Simpson and Ben Hewitt. I knew both 0:03:04.220 --> 0:03:08.690 of them were really influential and supportive of me. Christine 0:03:08.690 --> 0:03:12.620 was my manager and Christine has always served to be 0:03:12.620 --> 0:03:15.919 very supportive of me. I saw her as a mentor 0:03:15.950 --> 0:03:20.360 for teaching me practical things, but she also strongly encouraged 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:24.380 me to get into Joint Blind Citizens Australia. And I've 0:03:24.380 --> 0:03:27.440 never looked back from that because that peer support and 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.980 information gaining that I gained from BCA was also worthwhile 0:03:30.980 --> 0:03:34.790 through my career. And for me, that manifested in teaching 0:03:34.790 --> 0:03:40.610 people Braille, but also technology, but braille technology in particular. 0:03:40.610 --> 0:03:43.550 When I was at Rvb, Christine introduced me to some 0:03:43.580 --> 0:03:46.040 technology and boy did I get a buzz. When I 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.680 first saw that first Notetaker, I was familiar with some 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.830 note takers like the Eureka, the Braille, and speak. But 0:03:51.830 --> 0:03:53.690 when the Braille light came out and it had a 0:03:53.690 --> 0:03:56.420 braille display that was as exciting as when I first 0:03:56.420 --> 0:03:58.700 sent my first accessible text message. 0:03:58.730 --> 0:04:01.490 And you influenced a lot of people. People would say 0:04:01.490 --> 0:04:04.340 to me, oh, that Ramona. It's amazing what she can do, 0:04:04.340 --> 0:04:06.770 and she explains it so well, etc. it was a 0:04:06.770 --> 0:04:10.040 very important role that few people had. And you then 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.670 moved into what seemed quite a different field, but again, 0:04:13.670 --> 0:04:17.870 a field of influence and helping people. That's working with Humanware. 0:04:17.900 --> 0:04:19.970 Thank you. It's nice to have that feedback, but I 0:04:19.969 --> 0:04:23.090 think it's just about taking the opportunities and working with 0:04:23.090 --> 0:04:27.620 people and trying to find what suits people the best 0:04:27.620 --> 0:04:30.110 and what are the solutions out there. And that's all 0:04:30.110 --> 0:04:34.130 about being networked, tapped into different sources of information and 0:04:34.130 --> 0:04:38.330 then sharing that information with Humanware, which is a leading 0:04:38.330 --> 0:04:43.370 manufacturer of adaptive technology for blind people, which includes braille 0:04:43.370 --> 0:04:49.310 speech technology and low vision magnification solutions. I worked for 0:04:49.310 --> 0:04:53.030 Humanware for 21 years in that role. I did a 0:04:53.030 --> 0:04:56.990 lot of sales, which was basically showing people what solutions 0:04:56.990 --> 0:05:00.660 were out there to address whatever particular needs they had. 0:05:00.690 --> 0:05:03.270 I also did tech support, so I was the one 0:05:03.270 --> 0:05:06.300 that advised people to turn it off and turn it 0:05:06.300 --> 0:05:09.390 back on again, or try all sorts of other different 0:05:09.390 --> 0:05:13.349 tech troubleshooting. But I was also working with schools and 0:05:13.350 --> 0:05:18.390 introducing students to Braille technology, showing teachers how their work 0:05:18.390 --> 0:05:21.480 could be easily gotten to the child without having to 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.020 go through long delays of Braille translation, showing people how 0:05:25.020 --> 0:05:28.050 they can get back into audiobooks by introducing them to 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.050 these things called daisy players and all sorts of things. 0:05:31.050 --> 0:05:34.140 So yeah, Humanware was a big part of my career. 0:05:34.140 --> 0:05:37.170 And it really stretched you, didn't it? Because you had 0:05:37.170 --> 0:05:41.520 to become familiar with new and evolving technologies. 0:05:41.550 --> 0:05:44.970 Yeah. I remember the first time that I heard about 0:05:44.970 --> 0:05:47.640 this thing called Bluetooth. I thought, oh no, what is that? 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:49.349 And I knew it wasn't a dental disease, but I 0:05:49.350 --> 0:05:52.890 knew it was some fancy tech that I had to 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.110 try and get on top of. So yes, quite often 0:05:55.110 --> 0:05:57.900 I felt like I was one step ahead. Learning is 0:05:57.900 --> 0:06:00.310 hard and challenging, but in the end it pays off 0:06:00.310 --> 0:06:03.550 if you just dedicate some time. I was traveling a lot. 0:06:03.580 --> 0:06:05.500 I was on a plane every three weeks off to 0:06:05.530 --> 0:06:08.410 a different part of Australia, meeting different people. It was fun, 0:06:08.410 --> 0:06:11.380 but it was tiring. But yeah, it was a challenge, 0:06:11.380 --> 0:06:12.970 but one that I was up for. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.760 Tell us about that. You just mentioned it as an 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:19.780 aside that you were traveling a lot on airplanes every week. 0:06:20.470 --> 0:06:23.020 That takes a bit out of one, doesn't it? You've 0:06:23.020 --> 0:06:25.300 really got to work hard to get your head around 0:06:25.300 --> 0:06:27.670 the process from when you first set out to go 0:06:27.670 --> 0:06:31.210 to the airport, to remembering where you've put your cane 0:06:31.210 --> 0:06:34.660 down when you get to the hotel room? Just explain 0:06:34.660 --> 0:06:36.700 that for people who aren't familiar with it. 0:06:36.730 --> 0:06:39.790 Absolutely. And maybe it's the Girl Guide that I did 0:06:39.790 --> 0:06:41.950 as a child coming out of me, but I just 0:06:41.950 --> 0:06:44.740 found it was important to be prepared. But there's a lot, 0:06:44.740 --> 0:06:47.470 and it is tiring waiting around in airports for flights 0:06:47.470 --> 0:06:50.110 to trying to find new gates. I was traveling with 0:06:50.110 --> 0:06:52.270 my guide dog, so I'd have to always make sure 0:06:52.300 --> 0:06:56.110 in advance that there were places to toilet her. I 0:06:56.110 --> 0:06:59.089 worked a lot with colleagues at the other end of 0:06:59.090 --> 0:07:02.090 the gate. So I was travelling, say, to a state 0:07:02.090 --> 0:07:04.100 where I was doing some education. I'd worked with a 0:07:04.100 --> 0:07:07.279 school teachers to suggest, could you tell me where a 0:07:07.280 --> 0:07:09.800 hotel is close to the school? So I'd do a 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.710 lot of inquiring and a lot of planning, but it 0:07:12.710 --> 0:07:15.800 is tiring. It takes longer to do things. It doesn't 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.020 mean I can't do them, but it just might take 0:07:18.020 --> 0:07:21.890 me longer to do things. So to be prepared and 0:07:21.890 --> 0:07:24.920 to find the most efficient way of doing things was 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:29.480 really key behind that. So I might choose to do 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.420 the essential things or find the technology that I could 0:07:32.420 --> 0:07:36.680 use to make me the most efficient. So for me, 0:07:36.770 --> 0:07:40.100 and everyone has their different perspectives of how they approach technology. 0:07:40.130 --> 0:07:44.360 For me, efficiency is more important than all bells and whistles, 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:48.080 but other people like latest features. Most features for me, 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:49.730 I just need to get the job done. 0:07:50.150 --> 0:07:54.320 Expos and conferences that you had to attend. 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:58.020 Exhibitions are a great way to meet potential customers and 0:07:58.020 --> 0:08:01.920 existing customers. And through Humanware, we did a lot of those. 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.280 So they were either in my home town of Melbourne 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.610 or in other places in Australia, and I also did 0:08:08.610 --> 0:08:13.050 some in Asia with my manager. Technology had to be 0:08:13.050 --> 0:08:17.190 lugged in, set up, plugged in, and it's quite funny 0:08:17.190 --> 0:08:21.300 when people tell me that aren't used to my, I guess, 0:08:21.300 --> 0:08:23.700 career in my life. Be careful, there's a cord there, 0:08:23.700 --> 0:08:26.760 and the amount of times I was sitting amongst 20 0:08:26.790 --> 0:08:29.220 cords behind an exhibit table and was able to step 0:08:29.220 --> 0:08:32.580 over them, and it's just quite funny that they're warning 0:08:32.579 --> 0:08:35.760 me about one cord, but yeah, look, it was it's fine. 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.670 And it became quite a routine. I'd put certain things, 0:08:38.699 --> 0:08:41.850 certain places. By the end of the two days of 0:08:41.849 --> 0:08:43.949 an exhibit, it was very hard to find things because 0:08:43.949 --> 0:08:46.829 people were picking up all sorts of things. But once again, 0:08:46.859 --> 0:08:49.830 you've just got to go with the roll and see 0:08:49.829 --> 0:08:53.280 how things work out. But yes, it was an exciting 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.439 but a tiring event and once again, planning worked. If 0:08:56.439 --> 0:08:59.290 you're at an exhibition also, they can be quite noisy, 0:08:59.290 --> 0:09:02.379 so problem solving had to find a Bluetooth speaker or 0:09:02.410 --> 0:09:05.559 a plug in speaker that you could amplify your sound 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.290 of your technology. Because of course, blind technology is all 0:09:08.290 --> 0:09:12.010 about audio output, in many cases to be heard over 0:09:12.010 --> 0:09:15.699 the loud din of the exhibit hall. 0:09:16.449 --> 0:09:21.160 Let's reflect on technology over the last 30 years. Are 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.790 there any significant moments you talked about the Braille light earlier? 0:09:24.819 --> 0:09:28.089 Any others you can recall that you sort of thought 0:09:28.089 --> 0:09:30.789 at the time, oh, this is fantastic, or that you 0:09:30.790 --> 0:09:34.569 realize looking back, gee, that really was a great step forward. 0:09:34.750 --> 0:09:38.769 When I started, we were still dealing with parallel and 0:09:38.770 --> 0:09:42.640 serial connections. So when USB became a thing that was exciting, 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:46.209 much easier plug and play type of concepts. Of course, 0:09:46.209 --> 0:09:51.729 Bluetooth helped portability, I think. Not particularly products, although Humanware 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.770 had a lot of portable things like handheld devices. I 0:09:54.770 --> 0:09:59.540 think the move towards portability and handheld devices is a 0:09:59.540 --> 0:10:03.349 big thing. In more recent times, of course, we're seeing 0:10:03.380 --> 0:10:12.230 emerging technologies like AI and 3D printing, motion detection, haptic feedback. 0:10:12.260 --> 0:10:16.490 These are all things that we're certainly seeing these days are. 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:20.030 So there are moments like that that I think are 0:10:20.630 --> 0:10:23.479 really significant, but they're not really a moment. I guess 0:10:23.510 --> 0:10:26.689 they're a stage or a development or a trend. But 0:10:26.689 --> 0:10:29.359 what I really also like to see is that there 0:10:29.359 --> 0:10:33.770 are devices that cater for people that can't necessarily use 0:10:33.770 --> 0:10:37.280 mainstream or just need a different interface. And I'm thinking 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:41.540 of things like phones like the blind sell classic phones 0:10:41.540 --> 0:10:45.679 that have push buttons, standalone OCR devices. 0:10:45.709 --> 0:10:48.649 One thing I have learned from you, Ramona, is that 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.009 you are the master of the technology. You tend to 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.510 use what you need to use rather than what you 0:10:54.510 --> 0:10:56.429 would like to use. Some of us are a bit 0:10:56.459 --> 0:10:59.280 sort of geeky and like to play with new stuff, 0:10:59.459 --> 0:11:03.059 but technology doesn't rule your life, does it? 0:11:04.079 --> 0:11:07.109 Oh, to some degree it does, Stephen. Still, I have 0:11:07.109 --> 0:11:10.529 to work and so I have to learn new new 0:11:10.530 --> 0:11:15.090 platforms for new work, etc. but I am not someone 0:11:15.089 --> 0:11:18.479 that just delves with fun things because I want to, 0:11:18.510 --> 0:11:21.000 but that's just simply a time thing. There are some 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:22.860 things I'd like to do with technology, but I don't 0:11:22.859 --> 0:11:26.280 have time. But I also, as I said earlier, like 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.709 to just get the job done. So I try not 0:11:28.709 --> 0:11:32.790 to let technology rule me. And sometimes a low tech 0:11:32.790 --> 0:11:36.120 or no tech solution is better than a high tech solution. 0:11:36.569 --> 0:11:40.079 Now tell us about your current role with Monash University. 0:11:40.079 --> 0:11:44.249 This ties nicely into what I was saying about emerging technologies. 0:11:44.579 --> 0:11:49.050 I was representing Blind Citizens Australia on a project looking 0:11:49.050 --> 0:11:53.760 at 3D printing for Making graphics accessible to blind people. 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.729 And through that, I learned about a new centre that 0:11:56.729 --> 0:12:01.800 Monash University have created called mats. Mats, which is an 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:07.559 acronym for Monash Assistive Technology and Society Centre, and I 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.619 have now been appointed as the manager of that centre. 0:12:10.650 --> 0:12:16.079 That centre is a hub for researchers and educators in 0:12:16.079 --> 0:12:20.999 the disability space, looking particularly at assistive technology. We have 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.059 other centres, I guess, and places around Australia looking at 0:12:24.059 --> 0:12:29.309 disability issues, but this one is really focused on assistive technology. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:34.829 We work very closely with the disability sector. Our academics, 0:12:34.829 --> 0:12:39.510 as I said, are either researchers or education specialists. And 0:12:39.510 --> 0:12:42.989 there's a lot of different projects looking at technology and 0:12:42.990 --> 0:12:46.230 the impact of that on the disability community. So it's 0:12:46.229 --> 0:12:50.829 very much about co-design, working with people with disabilities to 0:12:50.859 --> 0:12:54.130 address real world problems. There's no point coming up with 0:12:54.130 --> 0:12:57.609 some great invention if the disability community don't need it 0:12:57.609 --> 0:12:59.920 or wouldn't use it. But yeah, I'm working with a 0:12:59.920 --> 0:13:02.199 great crew at the Mat center. The director and the 0:13:02.199 --> 0:13:05.499 deputy director and I lead that team. We're just growing, 0:13:05.500 --> 0:13:08.290 but we're starting to get out there now with different projects. 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:10.660 And what a smart move it was to have you 0:13:10.660 --> 0:13:14.769 managing that center. With your experience in the technology field, 0:13:14.770 --> 0:13:19.989 your lived experience as a blind person and with your competence. 0:13:20.199 --> 0:13:20.920 Just one final. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:21.790 Question. Yeah. 0:13:22.179 --> 0:13:24.309 What do you do to relax? 0:13:24.490 --> 0:13:29.020 I guess my me time is coffee and listening to podcasts. 0:13:29.050 --> 0:13:34.209 My interests are science, health, technology, and a few other things. 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.630 I go to the gym and I like to work 0:13:37.630 --> 0:13:39.910 out and that gets a few endorphins going. So that's 0:13:39.910 --> 0:13:42.849 a bit of a relaxation and walking. And when I can, 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:44.410 I also like to go and do a bit of 0:13:44.439 --> 0:13:49.089 trying new cafes. I have a guide dog and we'd 0:13:49.130 --> 0:13:51.679 like to go for walks as well, exploring the neighbourhood. 0:13:51.709 --> 0:13:55.069 Great speaking with you today, Ramona. Ramona. Mandy. 0:13:55.490 --> 0:13:57.409 Thanks, Steve. It's been delightful. 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.759 I've been speaking with Ramona. Mandy. Really a giant in 0:14:01.790 --> 0:14:07.880 assistive technology in Australia. Before we go, a reminder that 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.819 you can find details of this and previous editions of 0:14:10.819 --> 0:14:19.129 the program by going to VA radio.org/talking tech. VA radio.org/talking 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.520 tech to write to the program. Damo is checking his 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:27.979 inbox so you can write to Damo McMorrow. Damo dot 0:14:28.010 --> 0:14:34.880 Mkmo r o w at Vision australia.org. Damo dot McMorrow 0:14:34.910 --> 0:14:39.110 at Vision australia.org. This has been talking tech. My guest 0:14:39.109 --> 0:14:42.740 has been Ramona. Mandy. I'm Stephen Jolley. Take care. We'll 0:14:42.740 --> 0:14:44.300 talk more tech next week. See you.