S1: Hello everyone. Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition, available from
S1: March the 11th, 2025. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have
S1: you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated
S1: stations of the Radio Reading Network or the Community Radio Network.
S1: There is also the podcast. To catch that, all you
S1: need to do is search for the two words talking
S1: tech and down. It can all come usually on a
S1: Tuesday afternoon just after it's been produced. Another option is
S1: to ask your Siri device or smart speaker to play.
S1: Vision Australia radio talking tech podcast. Vision Australia radio talking
S1: tech podcast. Normally with me is Damo McMorrow, Vision Australia's
S1: national manager on access technology. Damo is away at the moment.
S1: He's in California attending the CSUN event, the International Assistive
S1: Technology Conference, and will be chatting to him about that
S1: when he comes back in a couple of weeks time.
S1: Last Saturday, you may know, was International Women's Day, March
S1: the 8th. So what a timely moment for us to
S1: celebrate the achievement of a woman in assistive or access technology.
S1: And I'm very pleased to be speaking with Ramona. Mandy. Ramona, welcome.
S2: Hi, Steven. And I'm very pleased to be with you.
S2: Thank you.
S1: I first remember you making a difference for people back
S1: in the 1990s. You were working with Avebe Royal Victorian
S1: Institute for the blind as a Braille training instructor. But
S1: you did more than that. You were following in the
S1: footsteps of some other great influencers of people who had
S1: recently lost their sight, like the late Ben Hewitt. Christine,
S1: now Simpson, who is my sister, I should disclose that
S1: and yourself who really mentored or were role models for
S1: people new to their vision loss. Tell us about that.
S2: Thanks, Stephen. And let me say, first of all, the
S2: pleasure has truly been mine for my career in assistive technology.
S2: From a very young age at primary school, I wanted
S2: to be a teacher, but I also took well to
S2: technical things. I was forever the one fixing the dolls
S2: when their head or their arm fell off and wanted
S2: to know how things work. And I still like to
S2: know how things work. And so my role at Rvb,
S2: when I was teaching Braille, I really enjoyed that because
S2: I believe that knowledge is power. And I believe in
S2: sharing that knowledge and that power to empower people so
S2: they can do what they want to do with independence
S2: and confidence. And I really enjoyed my role at Rvb
S2: because it was my mixture of teaching and technology coming together,
S2: and certainly Christine Simpson and Ben Hewitt. I knew both
S2: of them were really influential and supportive of me. Christine
S2: was my manager and Christine has always served to be
S2: very supportive of me. I saw her as a mentor
S2: for teaching me practical things, but she also strongly encouraged
S2: me to get into Joint Blind Citizens Australia. And I've
S2: never looked back from that because that peer support and
S2: information gaining that I gained from BCA was also worthwhile
S2: through my career. And for me, that manifested in teaching
S2: people Braille, but also technology, but braille technology in particular.
S2: When I was at Rvb, Christine introduced me to some
S2: technology and boy did I get a buzz. When I
S2: first saw that first Notetaker, I was familiar with some
S2: note takers like the Eureka, the Braille, and speak. But
S2: when the Braille light came out and it had a
S2: braille display that was as exciting as when I first
S2: sent my first accessible text message.
S1: And you influenced a lot of people. People would say
S1: to me, oh, that Ramona. It's amazing what she can do,
S1: and she explains it so well, etc. it was a
S1: very important role that few people had. And you then
S1: moved into what seemed quite a different field, but again,
S1: a field of influence and helping people. That's working with Humanware.
S2: Thank you. It's nice to have that feedback, but I
S2: think it's just about taking the opportunities and working with
S2: people and trying to find what suits people the best
S2: and what are the solutions out there. And that's all
S2: about being networked, tapped into different sources of information and
S2: then sharing that information with Humanware, which is a leading
S2: manufacturer of adaptive technology for blind people, which includes braille
S2: speech technology and low vision magnification solutions. I worked for
S2: Humanware for 21 years in that role. I did a
S2: lot of sales, which was basically showing people what solutions
S2: were out there to address whatever particular needs they had.
S2: I also did tech support, so I was the one
S2: that advised people to turn it off and turn it
S2: back on again, or try all sorts of other different
S2: tech troubleshooting. But I was also working with schools and
S2: introducing students to Braille technology, showing teachers how their work
S2: could be easily gotten to the child without having to
S2: go through long delays of Braille translation, showing people how
S2: they can get back into audiobooks by introducing them to
S2: these things called daisy players and all sorts of things.
S2: So yeah, Humanware was a big part of my career.
S1: And it really stretched you, didn't it? Because you had
S1: to become familiar with new and evolving technologies.
S2: Yeah. I remember the first time that I heard about
S2: this thing called Bluetooth. I thought, oh no, what is that?
S2: And I knew it wasn't a dental disease, but I
S2: knew it was some fancy tech that I had to
S2: try and get on top of. So yes, quite often
S2: I felt like I was one step ahead. Learning is
S2: hard and challenging, but in the end it pays off
S2: if you just dedicate some time. I was traveling a lot.
S2: I was on a plane every three weeks off to
S2: a different part of Australia, meeting different people. It was fun,
S2: but it was tiring. But yeah, it was a challenge,
S2: but one that I was up for.
S1: Tell us about that. You just mentioned it as an
S1: aside that you were traveling a lot on airplanes every week.
S1: That takes a bit out of one, doesn't it? You've
S1: really got to work hard to get your head around
S1: the process from when you first set out to go
S1: to the airport, to remembering where you've put your cane
S1: down when you get to the hotel room? Just explain
S1: that for people who aren't familiar with it.
S2: Absolutely. And maybe it's the Girl Guide that I did
S2: as a child coming out of me, but I just
S2: found it was important to be prepared. But there's a lot,
S2: and it is tiring waiting around in airports for flights
S2: to trying to find new gates. I was traveling with
S2: my guide dog, so I'd have to always make sure
S2: in advance that there were places to toilet her. I
S2: worked a lot with colleagues at the other end of
S2: the gate. So I was travelling, say, to a state
S2: where I was doing some education. I'd worked with a
S2: school teachers to suggest, could you tell me where a
S2: hotel is close to the school? So I'd do a
S2: lot of inquiring and a lot of planning, but it
S2: is tiring. It takes longer to do things. It doesn't
S2: mean I can't do them, but it just might take
S2: me longer to do things. So to be prepared and
S2: to find the most efficient way of doing things was
S2: really key behind that. So I might choose to do
S2: the essential things or find the technology that I could
S2: use to make me the most efficient. So for me,
S2: and everyone has their different perspectives of how they approach technology.
S2: For me, efficiency is more important than all bells and whistles,
S2: but other people like latest features. Most features for me,
S2: I just need to get the job done.
S1: Expos and conferences that you had to attend.
S2: Exhibitions are a great way to meet potential customers and
S2: existing customers. And through Humanware, we did a lot of those.
S2: So they were either in my home town of Melbourne
S2: or in other places in Australia, and I also did
S2: some in Asia with my manager. Technology had to be
S2: lugged in, set up, plugged in, and it's quite funny
S2: when people tell me that aren't used to my, I guess,
S2: career in my life. Be careful, there's a cord there,
S2: and the amount of times I was sitting amongst 20
S2: cords behind an exhibit table and was able to step
S2: over them, and it's just quite funny that they're warning
S2: me about one cord, but yeah, look, it was it's fine.
S2: And it became quite a routine. I'd put certain things,
S2: certain places. By the end of the two days of
S2: an exhibit, it was very hard to find things because
S2: people were picking up all sorts of things. But once again,
S2: you've just got to go with the roll and see
S2: how things work out. But yes, it was an exciting
S2: but a tiring event and once again, planning worked. If
S2: you're at an exhibition also, they can be quite noisy,
S2: so problem solving had to find a Bluetooth speaker or
S2: a plug in speaker that you could amplify your sound
S2: of your technology. Because of course, blind technology is all
S2: about audio output, in many cases to be heard over
S2: the loud din of the exhibit hall.
S1: Let's reflect on technology over the last 30 years. Are
S1: there any significant moments you talked about the Braille light earlier?
S1: Any others you can recall that you sort of thought
S1: at the time, oh, this is fantastic, or that you
S1: realize looking back, gee, that really was a great step forward.
S2: When I started, we were still dealing with parallel and
S2: serial connections. So when USB became a thing that was exciting,
S2: much easier plug and play type of concepts. Of course,
S2: Bluetooth helped portability, I think. Not particularly products, although Humanware
S2: had a lot of portable things like handheld devices. I
S2: think the move towards portability and handheld devices is a
S2: big thing. In more recent times, of course, we're seeing
S2: emerging technologies like AI and 3D printing, motion detection, haptic feedback.
S2: These are all things that we're certainly seeing these days are.
S2: So there are moments like that that I think are
S2: really significant, but they're not really a moment. I guess
S2: they're a stage or a development or a trend. But
S2: what I really also like to see is that there
S2: are devices that cater for people that can't necessarily use
S2: mainstream or just need a different interface. And I'm thinking
S2: of things like phones like the blind sell classic phones
S2: that have push buttons, standalone OCR devices.
S1: One thing I have learned from you, Ramona, is that
S1: you are the master of the technology. You tend to
S1: use what you need to use rather than what you
S1: would like to use. Some of us are a bit
S1: sort of geeky and like to play with new stuff,
S1: but technology doesn't rule your life, does it?
S2: Oh, to some degree it does, Stephen. Still, I have
S2: to work and so I have to learn new new
S2: platforms for new work, etc. but I am not someone
S2: that just delves with fun things because I want to,
S2: but that's just simply a time thing. There are some
S2: things I'd like to do with technology, but I don't
S2: have time. But I also, as I said earlier, like
S2: to just get the job done. So I try not
S2: to let technology rule me. And sometimes a low tech
S2: or no tech solution is better than a high tech solution.
S1: Now tell us about your current role with Monash University.
S2: This ties nicely into what I was saying about emerging technologies.
S2: I was representing Blind Citizens Australia on a project looking
S2: at 3D printing for Making graphics accessible to blind people.
S2: And through that, I learned about a new centre that
S2: Monash University have created called mats. Mats, which is an
S2: acronym for Monash Assistive Technology and Society Centre, and I
S2: have now been appointed as the manager of that centre.
S2: That centre is a hub for researchers and educators in
S2: the disability space, looking particularly at assistive technology. We have
S2: other centres, I guess, and places around Australia looking at
S2: disability issues, but this one is really focused on assistive technology.
S2: We work very closely with the disability sector. Our academics,
S2: as I said, are either researchers or education specialists. And
S2: there's a lot of different projects looking at technology and
S2: the impact of that on the disability community. So it's
S2: very much about co-design, working with people with disabilities to
S2: address real world problems. There's no point coming up with
S2: some great invention if the disability community don't need it
S2: or wouldn't use it. But yeah, I'm working with a
S2: great crew at the Mat center. The director and the
S2: deputy director and I lead that team. We're just growing,
S2: but we're starting to get out there now with different projects.
S1: And what a smart move it was to have you
S1: managing that center. With your experience in the technology field,
S1: your lived experience as a blind person and with your competence.
S1: Just one final.
S2: Question. Yeah.
S1: What do you do to relax?
S2: I guess my me time is coffee and listening to podcasts.
S2: My interests are science, health, technology, and a few other things.
S2: I go to the gym and I like to work
S2: out and that gets a few endorphins going. So that's
S2: a bit of a relaxation and walking. And when I can,
S2: I also like to go and do a bit of
S2: trying new cafes. I have a guide dog and we'd
S2: like to go for walks as well, exploring the neighbourhood.
S1: Great speaking with you today, Ramona. Ramona. Mandy.
S2: Thanks, Steve. It's been delightful.
S1: I've been speaking with Ramona. Mandy. Really a giant in
S1: assistive technology in Australia. Before we go, a reminder that
S1: you can find details of this and previous editions of
S1: the program by going to VA radio.org/talking tech. VA radio.org/talking
S1: tech to write to the program. Damo is checking his
S1: inbox so you can write to Damo McMorrow. Damo dot
S1: Mkmo r o w at Vision australia.org. Damo dot McMorrow
S1: at Vision australia.org. This has been talking tech. My guest
S1: has been Ramona. Mandy. I'm Stephen Jolley. Take care. We'll
S1: talk more tech next week. See you.