WEBVTT - Talking Tech 1st April 2025 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:12.160 Hello everyone. Welcome to Talking Tech. This edition available from 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:16.040 April the 1st, 2025. I'm Stephen Jolly. Great to have 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.520 you with us listening maybe through Vision Australia Radio, associated 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:23.360 stations of the Radio Reading Network or the Community Radio Network. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.440 There is also the podcast. To catch that, all you 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.560 need to do is search for the two words talking tech. 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.600 And Danica will come usually on a Tuesday afternoon just 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.559 after it's been produced. Another option is to ask your 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.159 Siri device or smart speaker to play. Vision Australia radio 0:00:39.199 --> 0:00:45.640 talking tech podcast. Vision Australia radio talking tech podcast with me. 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:51.040 Vision Australia's national access technology manager Damien McMorrow. Damo, are 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.920 you just about settled back to normal now after your 0:00:53.959 --> 0:00:55.160 Sea sun adventure? 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.800 I think so. I'm still excited about a lot of 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:00.760 the people that I met and the things that I saw, 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:04.200 but I'm over the jet lag now, so that's that's nice. 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.520 I'm starting to feel vaguely human again. 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.850 So it's not quite a distant memory yet. 0:01:09.090 --> 0:01:10.729 Not yet. No, no. 0:01:12.369 --> 0:01:13.130 Well, let's talk. 0:01:13.130 --> 0:01:16.010 About more of what you discovered later in the program. 0:01:16.009 --> 0:01:19.729 But to start, just to alert everyone to the fact 0:01:19.730 --> 0:01:26.370 that Apple are releasing another batch of their software updates 0:01:26.530 --> 0:01:28.850 this week, some of you may already have it. So 0:01:28.890 --> 0:01:35.089 we're the iOS 18.4 and the corresponding increments for their 0:01:35.090 --> 0:01:40.529 other devices, including Mac OS and demo. We're not going 0:01:40.530 --> 0:01:45.929 to see the enhancements to Siri that people were anticipating, 0:01:45.929 --> 0:01:48.770 because Apple said they'd be bringing them to us. The 0:01:48.770 --> 0:01:54.330 AI enhancements, which certainly will come maybe next year sometime. 0:01:54.330 --> 0:01:56.730 There have been a lot of improvements in Siri, though 0:01:56.730 --> 0:01:58.210 over recent months, haven't there? 0:01:58.690 --> 0:02:02.090 Yeah there have. Yeah. It's a shame that they've sort of, um, 0:02:02.170 --> 0:02:06.210 delayed further rollouts of that, but it's definitely a big 0:02:06.210 --> 0:02:07.610 improvement on what it was. 0:02:07.810 --> 0:02:12.740 Um, I believe that, uh, with the 18.4, Siri will 0:02:12.740 --> 0:02:17.340 be available from more areas, such as the lock screen 0:02:17.340 --> 0:02:21.620 and the control center. So look out for those and 0:02:21.620 --> 0:02:26.140 play around a bit, and you might find some useful improvements. Uh, 0:02:26.140 --> 0:02:31.940 also an interesting feature for prioritizing notifications is going to 0:02:31.940 --> 0:02:33.900 be refined a bit more, so that'll be good. 0:02:34.180 --> 0:02:37.900 Definitely, definitely. There's nothing more annoying than being bombarded by those. 0:02:38.300 --> 0:02:42.860 So that's iOS 18.4 and other Apple software coming to 0:02:42.860 --> 0:02:47.420 your machine sometime this week. Now demo. Let's go back 0:02:47.420 --> 0:02:52.060 to see son. And you did see some interesting stuff 0:02:52.060 --> 0:02:55.380 in the area of low vision. And I guess a 0:02:55.380 --> 0:02:58.500 way to describe it would be distance cameras. Tell us 0:02:58.500 --> 0:02:59.260 about that. 0:02:59.620 --> 0:03:03.700 Yes. So there was a couple of devices that interested me. 0:03:03.980 --> 0:03:08.180 One was a device called the Magnebot. If anyone remembers 0:03:08.180 --> 0:03:11.440 the old bot Ebert that hymns used to make. It's 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.800 kind of a similar idea, but a lot smaller. So 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:19.080 the idea of this one is it's a motorized camera, 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.520 so you can tilt it up and down left and right, 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.120 and it connects wirelessly to a tablet. So something like 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.160 an iPad. And the idea is that you could put 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.360 it in a place where it's got a good view 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.040 of what's happening. So, you know, for example, in a 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.320 classroom situation, you might sit it on the teacher's desk 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.360 looking straight at the board. The student can then sit 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.440 wherever they want to or need to in the room, 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.480 and they can drive the camera from their iPad so 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.920 they get the image on the screen and they can 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:50.760 zoom in and out and all of that sort of thing, 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.520 but they can also pan it around. So if the 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.320 teacher was doing something on the board and then, you know, 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.040 let's say, for example, if it was a science lesson 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.680 and they were doing a practical demonstration, you could direct 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.600 the camera to what was happening at the front of 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.120 the room and be able to observe that. So that 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.080 was one of them. The other one was the snow pad, 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.770 which is a similar idea, but it's a manually operated camera. 0:04:13.770 --> 0:04:15.690 So the student would have the camera next to them 0:04:15.690 --> 0:04:18.089 and they can sort of move it around. But it's 0:04:18.130 --> 0:04:22.090 a good distance camera, and it's nice to see a 0:04:22.090 --> 0:04:25.210 couple of options in that space, because it's something that's 0:04:25.210 --> 0:04:28.370 been missing for a while. I think in the education 0:04:28.730 --> 0:04:32.210 area is having a good distance solution. You know, there 0:04:32.210 --> 0:04:36.490 are things like the CCTV type magnifiers where the camera 0:04:36.490 --> 0:04:39.210 on an arm. So, you know, I'm thinking things like 0:04:39.210 --> 0:04:44.210 the Onix from Vespero, the Acrobat, those sorts of devices, 0:04:44.410 --> 0:04:48.130 but they're not really portable for a high school student. 0:04:48.130 --> 0:04:51.250 They're okay for early primary where you want something that 0:04:51.290 --> 0:04:53.490 just fires up and works, and there aren't too many 0:04:53.490 --> 0:04:56.930 buttons for little hands to fiddle with. But, you know, 0:04:56.970 --> 0:04:59.490 they are like carrying a heavy monitor around so they 0:04:59.490 --> 0:05:03.850 don't lend themselves to someone who needs to move from 0:05:03.850 --> 0:05:07.450 room to room. Whereas both of these devices would allow 0:05:07.450 --> 0:05:10.730 you to have your distance magnification solution in your backpack. 0:05:10.730 --> 0:05:13.420 We have moved a long way from the kid that 0:05:13.420 --> 0:05:15.420 can't see very well, having to sit right up the 0:05:15.420 --> 0:05:18.820 front of the room and stress and strain to find 0:05:18.820 --> 0:05:19.900 out what's on the board. 0:05:20.540 --> 0:05:23.220 That's right. Yeah. And which is really good to see. 0:05:23.260 --> 0:05:26.020 And a lot of these things, you have the ability to, 0:05:26.060 --> 0:05:29.620 to capture photos and do OCR and that sort of thing. 0:05:30.100 --> 0:05:33.340 As I've said before, it's really important, I think these 0:05:33.340 --> 0:05:36.620 days because we have so many options. It's so important 0:05:36.660 --> 0:05:39.540 for kids to have that concept of the technology toolbox 0:05:39.540 --> 0:05:42.180 and having a couple of different tools at your disposal 0:05:42.180 --> 0:05:45.860 so that when your eyes aren't cooperating or something's hard 0:05:45.860 --> 0:05:47.900 to see, you've got other ways of accessing it. And 0:05:47.900 --> 0:05:50.020 I think we're we're getting there in that way. 0:05:50.500 --> 0:05:53.500 So just remind us again of these devices, the magnebot. 0:05:53.540 --> 0:05:56.940 The magnebot is one of them and the other is 0:05:56.940 --> 0:06:00.180 the snow pad from Zmax. 0:06:00.700 --> 0:06:01.940 They're both from Zmax. 0:06:02.260 --> 0:06:05.300 Oh, no. Sorry. The Magnebot is from Tri-City. 0:06:05.340 --> 0:06:06.740 Right. So we'll do that again. 0:06:06.780 --> 0:06:07.220 Yeah. 0:06:07.980 --> 0:06:11.300 So just remind us of those two devices again. The magnebot? 0:06:11.340 --> 0:06:14.990 Yeah. The magnebot from try site and the snow pad 0:06:14.990 --> 0:06:15.950 from Sumacs. 0:06:16.910 --> 0:06:21.910 Okay, now let's move into the area of Braille displays. 0:06:21.910 --> 0:06:26.910 We talked about those last week, and there's a new 0:06:26.910 --> 0:06:29.630 kind of, uh, haptic technology. 0:06:29.950 --> 0:06:33.550 Yes, there's a company called New Haptics, and they've developed 0:06:33.550 --> 0:06:38.909 a braille display which operates, uh, using air to operate 0:06:38.910 --> 0:06:43.030 the pins, the Braille cells. So normally your traditional braille 0:06:43.030 --> 0:06:46.950 cell is operated with a sort of a piezoelectric type arrangement. 0:06:47.230 --> 0:06:49.870 I'm not exactly sure the ink cells that are used 0:06:49.870 --> 0:06:51.990 in the dot pad and the monarch, they are a 0:06:52.430 --> 0:06:55.750 different technology again, but this one, it's a fairly large 0:06:55.790 --> 0:06:58.630 sort of multi-line display. So it's a desktop device rather 0:06:58.630 --> 0:07:01.790 than something portable. It comes with a little air pump 0:07:01.790 --> 0:07:04.470 that sits under the table and that operates the pins. 0:07:04.950 --> 0:07:08.590 It's interesting that we're starting to see, I think, different 0:07:08.590 --> 0:07:12.110 ways of producing multi-line braille. You know, it'll be interesting 0:07:12.150 --> 0:07:15.090 to see kind of which technology wins out. But the 0:07:15.090 --> 0:07:19.850 problem with the the piezo electric cells and a lot 0:07:19.850 --> 0:07:22.170 of the others is the high cost. And I think 0:07:22.450 --> 0:07:26.210 this particular device, it's it is still I think prototype. 0:07:26.210 --> 0:07:29.650 But it's nice that people are trying to find more 0:07:29.650 --> 0:07:34.210 affordable ways of producing multi-line braille and experimenting with different technologies. 0:07:34.250 --> 0:07:36.290 Yes. And you just wonder what there's going to be in, say, 0:07:36.290 --> 0:07:37.610 five years time, don't you? 0:07:37.850 --> 0:07:41.530 Oh, you absolutely do. Yeah. As I said, this device 0:07:41.530 --> 0:07:45.050 is a, um, a desktop type unit. I think they're 0:07:45.050 --> 0:07:49.410 sort of targeting perhaps the developer slash coder market or 0:07:49.410 --> 0:07:52.450 someone that doesn't need to carry their braille display around. 0:07:52.930 --> 0:07:56.290 It's an interesting concept, and the Braille itself actually feels 0:07:56.290 --> 0:07:57.090 very nice. 0:07:57.210 --> 0:08:00.370 So this one's on the way. It's still at prototype stage. 0:08:00.490 --> 0:08:01.570 That's right. Yes. 0:08:01.770 --> 0:08:03.010 From new haptics. 0:08:03.050 --> 0:08:04.290 New haptics. Yep. 0:08:04.810 --> 0:08:09.250 Let's go back to getting around or orientation and mobility. 0:08:09.250 --> 0:08:13.170 As they say in the trade a product from. Make sense? 0:08:13.210 --> 0:08:16.500 Yes. This one was an interesting one to experiment with. 0:08:16.740 --> 0:08:21.460 The product consists of a chest harness in which you 0:08:21.940 --> 0:08:26.980 install your iPhone, and then there are two variants of 0:08:26.980 --> 0:08:29.260 the other component. One is sort of a little handheld 0:08:29.260 --> 0:08:33.179 wand type thing, and the other is one that attaches 0:08:33.179 --> 0:08:37.819 to a long cane. And the idea is that the 0:08:38.179 --> 0:08:42.619 camera in your phone detects obstacles, but it also uses 0:08:42.620 --> 0:08:45.780 the GPS in your phone to record routes and those 0:08:45.780 --> 0:08:50.259 kinds of things. And the little wand device, essentially like 0:08:50.300 --> 0:08:54.060 a cylinder that you hold in your hand. And there's 0:08:54.059 --> 0:08:58.100 a little groove that you put one finger into and 0:08:58.099 --> 0:09:02.300 that groove kind of pivots. So the idea is that 0:09:02.300 --> 0:09:06.459 when you need to make a turn, the little indicator 0:09:06.459 --> 0:09:09.379 that your finger sits in pivots around and tells you 0:09:09.380 --> 0:09:11.460 how much you need to turn. So, you know, whether 0:09:11.459 --> 0:09:13.980 it's a, you know, a hard left or whether it's 0:09:13.979 --> 0:09:18.309 just a gradual kind of Via what it also does 0:09:18.349 --> 0:09:22.429 though if you record a route, it will let you 0:09:22.429 --> 0:09:25.710 know if you're veering on a, say, a road crossing. 0:09:25.709 --> 0:09:28.350 So if you start to veer to the left, the 0:09:28.550 --> 0:09:31.150 little indicator under your finger will sort of push to 0:09:31.189 --> 0:09:33.390 the right to tell you which way you need to 0:09:33.390 --> 0:09:36.550 go and by how much in order to correct your course. 0:09:37.910 --> 0:09:41.110 And there is another version of it that attaches to 0:09:41.150 --> 0:09:43.790 the grip of a a long cane. In that instance, 0:09:43.790 --> 0:09:47.030 your thumb sits in the groove and you can then 0:09:47.030 --> 0:09:50.670 receive the the feedback from the the application that way. 0:09:51.150 --> 0:09:55.429 So good for pre-recording routes but also good for obstacle 0:09:55.429 --> 0:09:58.469 avoidance and that type of thing. So it was quite 0:09:58.469 --> 0:10:00.949 an interesting one. And and the little trial that I 0:10:00.949 --> 0:10:03.069 had with it was actually quite impressive. 0:10:03.349 --> 0:10:04.630 What stage is it at? 0:10:05.510 --> 0:10:08.429 Uh, I think this one still also at prototype. They 0:10:08.429 --> 0:10:11.309 are still kind of refining it, but I think they're 0:10:11.309 --> 0:10:13.509 hoping to have it available sometime in the next couple 0:10:13.550 --> 0:10:15.390 of months. I don't think it's far off. 0:10:15.790 --> 0:10:18.760 Um, it's very interesting, isn't it, that we're seeing a 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.800 number of these devices that are what I think of 0:10:21.839 --> 0:10:25.319 as guidance devices, sort of nudging you in the right direction. 0:10:25.319 --> 0:10:27.800 And it is interesting. I mean, I think that there's 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:33.079 still no substitute for good orientation and mobility skills, but 0:10:33.079 --> 0:10:36.840 I think having some of these secondary aides available, perhaps, 0:10:36.959 --> 0:10:38.720 you know, for some people it gives them a little 0:10:38.719 --> 0:10:42.200 more confidence or it helps them to if if something 0:10:42.199 --> 0:10:45.400 has gone wrong, helps them to sort of troubleshoot and, 0:10:45.719 --> 0:10:49.119 and correct course and that kind of thing. So, uh, 0:10:49.319 --> 0:10:51.320 you know, I think it's, it's going to be an 0:10:51.319 --> 0:10:54.640 interesting space to watch over the next couple of years. 0:10:54.839 --> 0:10:59.959 The AI world moves quickly along, and there's an interesting 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:04.000 web based product in a search. Tell us about that one. 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:09.480 Yes. So this is designed to provide an accessible shopping experience. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.439 It essentially makes its money, I think, by the online 0:11:13.439 --> 0:11:16.959 retailers that work with the platform paying to use it. 0:11:17.319 --> 0:11:20.449 So there's no cost to the end user if you like, 0:11:20.449 --> 0:11:24.890 but the idea is that it uses AI to guide 0:11:24.890 --> 0:11:27.290 you to particular products. So it has a couple of 0:11:27.290 --> 0:11:28.929 ways you can do it. You can do it through 0:11:28.929 --> 0:11:31.970 a web browser, and it's all nice and accessible, but 0:11:31.969 --> 0:11:36.290 it also has a phone based option as well where 0:11:36.290 --> 0:11:39.890 you can talk to essentially an AI robot type thing 0:11:39.929 --> 0:11:42.650 and say, you know, I'm interested in headphones and it 0:11:42.650 --> 0:11:44.970 will give you some options or ask you some questions 0:11:44.969 --> 0:11:48.290 to narrow down your search, and then it will allow 0:11:48.290 --> 0:11:50.809 you to go right through to the sort of checkout process. 0:11:50.809 --> 0:11:56.410 So for people who maybe don't want to or can't 0:11:56.609 --> 0:11:59.289 get out and about and go shopping with a support worker, 0:12:00.089 --> 0:12:02.530 but there may be a little bit nervous about using 0:12:02.530 --> 0:12:06.209 things like eBay or Amazon and then finding, you know, 0:12:06.250 --> 0:12:08.530 going to an online store and finding that it's all 0:12:08.530 --> 0:12:10.370 great until you get to the checkout and then it 0:12:10.370 --> 0:12:14.330 becomes inaccessible. This gives people a couple of different ways 0:12:14.329 --> 0:12:19.130 to accessibly shop. And for someone who's non-technical, having that 0:12:19.130 --> 0:12:22.550 phone sort of voice guided way of doing it as well, 0:12:22.550 --> 0:12:24.510 I think is actually pretty impressive. 0:12:25.069 --> 0:12:28.749 I suspect there are more situations than we realize where 0:12:29.030 --> 0:12:32.949 we ring up and have an interaction with a being 0:12:32.949 --> 0:12:34.870 at the end of the phone who is not actually 0:12:34.870 --> 0:12:36.790 a human, but an AI tool. 0:12:36.829 --> 0:12:39.389 Yeah, I think it's getting that way. Definitely. The thing 0:12:39.390 --> 0:12:42.630 is that it's the quality of the speech now is 0:12:42.630 --> 0:12:45.190 so good that it does almost sound like you're dealing 0:12:45.189 --> 0:12:46.389 with a person, doesn't it? 0:12:46.429 --> 0:12:50.550 Mhm. It certainly does. So this one is called Inner Search. 0:12:51.150 --> 0:12:54.550 Um and it's available in Australia, the UK, the United 0:12:54.550 --> 0:12:55.949 States and Canada. 0:12:56.550 --> 0:12:58.790 The other thing interesting thing about Inner Search is that 0:12:58.790 --> 0:13:02.349 I think over time things like flights and accommodation and 0:13:02.349 --> 0:13:05.110 those sorts of things will be added to it as well. 0:13:05.109 --> 0:13:08.870 That will be really good. And uh, particularly if they 0:13:08.870 --> 0:13:12.709 can for us. I think of when you book travel 0:13:12.709 --> 0:13:16.469 and you need to include an assistance dog, a guide 0:13:16.510 --> 0:13:19.030 dog or whatever, to be able to do that sort 0:13:19.030 --> 0:13:21.839 of automatically would be very good too, because that seems 0:13:21.839 --> 0:13:23.920 to really slow up the process. 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.360 Oh it does. It's so tedious. Uh, and you and you, 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.520 you invariably get the silly questions. I think my favorite 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.040 was why you want to travel with this dog. I 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:36.679 didn't really know what to say, so I said, because 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.120 it's got lovely fluffy ears. 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.800 An excellent answer. Before we go, let's remind everyone that 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.599 you can find details of this and previous editions of 0:13:45.599 --> 0:13:54.520 the program by going to VA. Radio.com. Radio.com. And to 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:55.559 write to the program. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:57.119 You can email me. 0:14:06.319 --> 0:14:11.519 At. This has been talking tech with me has been 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:16.760 Vision Australia's national access technology manager Damien McMorrow. I'm Stephen Jolley. 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:18.800 Stay safe and we'll talk more tech next week. 0:14:18.839 --> 0:14:19.320 See you.