WEBVTT - Talking Vision 689 Week Beginning 14th of August 2023 0:00:13.248 --> 0:00:18.968 From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's 0:00:18.968 --> 0:00:20.978 your host, Sam Colley. 0:00:23.458 --> 0:00:26.608 Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And 0:00:26.608 --> 0:00:29.578 for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness 0:00:29.578 --> 0:00:30.628 and low vision. 0:00:30.868 --> 0:00:34.888 In an ideal world, I would love to be able 0:00:34.888 --> 0:00:39.988 just to read my bills like everyone else would without 0:00:39.988 --> 0:00:43.888 having to go through some sort of, like, complicated process 0:00:43.888 --> 0:00:48.658 to work around the built in inaccessibility of the bill 0:00:48.658 --> 0:00:52.288 and having to call them up, advocate for myself, blah, blah, blah. 0:00:52.408 --> 0:00:54.838 I just want to be able to read it straight 0:00:54.838 --> 0:00:57.538 off the bat like a sighted person would. 0:00:57.628 --> 0:01:00.808 Welcome to the program. It's a reunion of sorts on 0:01:00.808 --> 0:01:02.908 the show this week as we chat with a couple 0:01:02.908 --> 0:01:07.078 of familiar voices to the talking Vision faithful. First up, 0:01:07.078 --> 0:01:11.458 we hear from Raya Andrean. Raya has been raising awareness 0:01:11.458 --> 0:01:15.778 about the inaccessibility of utility bills for people who are 0:01:15.778 --> 0:01:20.008 blind or have low vision, sharing her personal experiences of 0:01:20.008 --> 0:01:23.848 the difficulties she's faced having a bill provided to her 0:01:23.848 --> 0:01:28.018 in a format that is easily accessible and understandable. You 0:01:28.018 --> 0:01:30.898 may have seen Raya speaking about this in a recent 0:01:30.898 --> 0:01:34.498 ABC article and it's my great pleasure to welcome her 0:01:34.498 --> 0:01:37.558 onto the show to talk all about it. That interview's 0:01:37.558 --> 0:01:40.048 coming up right around the corner, so make sure to 0:01:40.048 --> 0:01:43.438 stay tuned. And then after you hear from Raya, Stellar, 0:01:43.438 --> 0:01:46.468 Glory's back on the show to give us the latest 0:01:46.468 --> 0:01:51.058 updates from the Vision Australia Library with some exciting upcoming 0:01:51.058 --> 0:01:55.258 events on the horizon. And then last but certainly not least, 0:01:55.258 --> 0:01:59.218 Francis Caitlin joins us for a Reader recommended. I hope 0:01:59.218 --> 0:02:08.018 you enjoy this week's episode of Talking Vision. Reverend Ryan 0:02:08.078 --> 0:02:12.758 is a freelance writer and musician based in Sydney, but 0:02:12.758 --> 0:02:16.358 she's also a voice that long term listeners to Talking 0:02:16.358 --> 0:02:19.988 Vision would be quite familiar with. You may have seen 0:02:19.988 --> 0:02:24.518 her work in ABC Classic more recently, but also she 0:02:24.518 --> 0:02:29.438 appeared in an ABC article talking all about the lack 0:02:29.438 --> 0:02:33.428 of accessibility of utility bills for people who are blind 0:02:33.428 --> 0:02:36.458 or have low vision. And she joins me now to 0:02:36.458 --> 0:02:40.028 talk all about it. Welcome back to Talking Vision. Great 0:02:40.028 --> 0:02:41.318 to hear your voice again. 0:02:41.528 --> 0:02:43.058 Thank you so much for having me. 0:02:43.388 --> 0:02:46.868 Firstly, where could you describe your experiences that you've had 0:02:46.868 --> 0:02:49.478 with utility bills in recent times? 0:02:49.508 --> 0:02:54.818 Sure thing. So I normally get my bill sent to 0:02:54.818 --> 0:03:00.548 me via email and my utility companies and council and 0:03:00.548 --> 0:03:05.468 everybody else normally send me the bills in PDF format, 0:03:05.468 --> 0:03:08.288 which is not particularly accessible. 0:03:08.528 --> 0:03:13.538 Okay. And what particular aspects of the PDFs were inaccessible 0:03:13.538 --> 0:03:16.298 for you and the people out there who are listening, 0:03:16.298 --> 0:03:18.968 who are blind or have low vision might be quite 0:03:18.968 --> 0:03:22.658 familiar with the challenges that come along with PDFs. But 0:03:22.658 --> 0:03:25.898 for the benefit of our broader listeners, what sort of 0:03:25.898 --> 0:03:28.208 things were some obstacles that you faced? 0:03:28.328 --> 0:03:32.198 Yeah, so it's mainly the formatting of how the information 0:03:32.198 --> 0:03:36.158 is being presented. So for instance, when I get presented 0:03:36.158 --> 0:03:40.478 with my electricity bill, there are different charges and rights 0:03:40.478 --> 0:03:45.578 and usually it's done in a table format, but most 0:03:45.578 --> 0:03:49.688 of the times it gets scrambled. Whichever way. I kind 0:03:49.688 --> 0:03:52.718 of try to convert the PDF format into something I 0:03:52.718 --> 0:03:56.708 can read. And that makes it, you know, I can't 0:03:56.708 --> 0:04:01.028 really work out whether this amount refers to this particular 0:04:01.028 --> 0:04:05.498 charge or if like the second amount refers to another 0:04:05.498 --> 0:04:10.118 particular charge, it's connecting those dots. That's really difficult to do. 0:04:10.268 --> 0:04:13.328 And did you find that the energy companies were quite 0:04:13.328 --> 0:04:16.328 receptive when you brought this up with them? What sort 0:04:16.328 --> 0:04:18.218 of response did you get from that? 0:04:18.398 --> 0:04:23.288 So they didn't really say that, Oh, no, we can't 0:04:23.288 --> 0:04:28.358 do that. We can't provide you the bill in your 0:04:28.358 --> 0:04:33.008 preferred format. They don't say that because that's clear discrimination. 0:04:33.008 --> 0:04:36.218 But what's frustrating is they say, okay, like we'll do 0:04:36.218 --> 0:04:38.498 something about this, will try to help you as much 0:04:38.498 --> 0:04:42.278 as we can. And because I used to work for 0:04:42.278 --> 0:04:46.028 a transcription department at Virgin Australia, I told them how 0:04:46.028 --> 0:04:50.168 they could help me, but none of my suggestions were 0:04:50.168 --> 0:04:54.758 taken and in the end the issues just weren't resolved. 0:04:54.758 --> 0:04:58.598 And my next bill will come. Same thing all over again. 0:04:58.598 --> 0:05:01.658 Sometimes it's like higher than the previous month and I 0:05:01.658 --> 0:05:05.438 want to know why. Sometimes it's lower than the previous 0:05:05.438 --> 0:05:07.748 month and I want to know why. And that's just 0:05:07.748 --> 0:05:08.438 no way for me. 0:05:08.438 --> 0:05:11.978 To do that and understand where the upshot of all 0:05:11.978 --> 0:05:14.888 of this was, that you have had to move from 0:05:14.888 --> 0:05:18.978 different providers because you weren't getting that response that you 0:05:18.978 --> 0:05:21.868 were looking for. Has that made a difference for you? 0:05:21.878 --> 0:05:24.608 What sort of improvements have you saying there. 0:05:24.908 --> 0:05:30.008 In terms of everyday living? I haven't really had a 0:05:30.008 --> 0:05:34.538 lot of improvements that's noticeable apart from, you know, like 0:05:34.538 --> 0:05:40.208 the new company has promised that they will supply my 0:05:40.208 --> 0:05:45.038 bill in something I can read, which my preferred format 0:05:45.038 --> 0:05:47.498 at this point in time is text. 0:05:47.588 --> 0:05:51.848 Okay. And I understand there is a possibility that bills 0:05:51.848 --> 0:05:55.388 can be sent in Braille, but that is also possibly 0:05:55.388 --> 0:05:59.498 quite cumbersome because if you have bills in embossed Braille, 0:05:59.498 --> 0:06:02.918 that would be a giant format and that's quite unwieldy. 0:06:02.918 --> 0:06:07.448 So that's possibly not really an option for quite a 0:06:07.448 --> 0:06:11.768 few people. Have you ever considered getting a Braille bill 0:06:11.768 --> 0:06:14.918 or is that sort of just been a bit too cumbersome? 0:06:15.128 --> 0:06:21.008 So my consideration of not using embossed Braille is because 0:06:21.008 --> 0:06:23.618 I'm trying to cut down on paper, you know, because 0:06:23.618 --> 0:06:27.008 I have worked for Vision Australia, it's actually quite easy 0:06:27.008 --> 0:06:30.518 for me to navigate those bills knowing how they are 0:06:30.518 --> 0:06:33.908 structured and things like that. But I want to minimise 0:06:33.908 --> 0:06:38.378 my environmental footprint. And the thing about electronic Braille is 0:06:38.378 --> 0:06:41.678 that normally I need a special reader to be able 0:06:41.678 --> 0:06:44.318 to read it, which is not a problem. But currently 0:06:44.318 --> 0:06:47.648 my Braille device is not connected to the internet, so 0:06:47.738 --> 0:06:50.378 it kind of involves a bit of a two step process. 0:06:50.378 --> 0:06:53.828 All right, well, if it's like a text, I could 0:06:53.828 --> 0:06:57.278 just click on the link on my email attachment and 0:06:57.278 --> 0:06:58.598 be able to read it there. 0:06:58.898 --> 0:07:01.898 And whether those people have Braille readers or not, they 0:07:01.898 --> 0:07:04.538 are also quite pricey and they're not, you know, not 0:07:04.538 --> 0:07:09.048 always available for everybody. So that's another consideration. And, you know, 0:07:09.048 --> 0:07:13.098 having that accessibility of a text, that's crucial because as 0:07:13.098 --> 0:07:15.318 you said, you just click on the link and the 0:07:15.318 --> 0:07:19.038 document comes up and it's in with your screen reader 0:07:19.038 --> 0:07:21.348 and that helps quite a bit. So what would you 0:07:21.348 --> 0:07:26.268 like to see improve in terms of digital accessibility, whether 0:07:26.268 --> 0:07:30.408 that's PDFs or just builds that are available online on 0:07:30.408 --> 0:07:33.348 the browser? What sort of things would you really love 0:07:33.348 --> 0:07:37.728 to say improved across the board and made them consistently accessible? 0:07:38.148 --> 0:07:41.238 Oh wow, that is such a big question. Of course. 0:07:41.358 --> 0:07:42.038 We've got we've. 0:07:42.038 --> 0:07:44.268 Got a long time we can, you know, go into 0:07:44.268 --> 0:07:46.578 as much or as little detail as you want. Yeah. 0:07:46.578 --> 0:07:51.438 So of course, in an ideal world, I would love 0:07:51.438 --> 0:07:55.398 to be able just to read my bills like everyone 0:07:55.398 --> 0:07:59.328 else would without having to go through some sort of like, 0:07:59.358 --> 0:08:05.088 complicated process to work around the built in inaccessibility of 0:08:05.088 --> 0:08:09.228 the bill and having to call them up, advocate for myself, blah, blah, blah. 0:08:09.318 --> 0:08:11.718 I just want to be able to read it straight 0:08:11.718 --> 0:08:15.708 off the bat like a sighted person would in terms 0:08:15.708 --> 0:08:19.908 of like, what can we all do together to kind 0:08:19.908 --> 0:08:23.838 of make that happen? I think something that might be 0:08:23.838 --> 0:08:28.758 helpful is if we focus less on the visual format, 0:08:28.758 --> 0:08:33.768 on how a sighted person would navigate this visually and 0:08:33.768 --> 0:08:37.638 actually like lay out the information in a way that 0:08:37.638 --> 0:08:41.628 is more accessible for other people, that would make a 0:08:41.628 --> 0:08:46.728 huge difference. So instead of presenting figures with sharp peaks 0:08:46.728 --> 0:08:50.538 during certain times on graphics, like why don't you use 0:08:50.538 --> 0:08:55.908 words to do that? Or instead of formatting using tables like, 0:08:55.908 --> 0:08:59.178 why don't you use a list that a blind person 0:08:59.178 --> 0:09:03.018 can still relate to the information that they need? Like 0:09:03.018 --> 0:09:06.238 that doesn't take a rocket scientist to do that. 0:09:06.258 --> 0:09:08.988 Would that be something like they could tell you the 0:09:08.988 --> 0:09:14.028 days on which you use the most electricity or water or, 0:09:14.028 --> 0:09:17.028 you know, something like that, Would that be of use 0:09:17.028 --> 0:09:19.308 for people who are blind or have low vision? You 0:09:19.308 --> 0:09:22.248 think what sort of information would you love to say? 0:09:22.248 --> 0:09:23.508 Like in particular? 0:09:24.288 --> 0:09:28.398 So if I know when is my peak usage, when 0:09:28.398 --> 0:09:32.918 I use the electricity most I could make decisions on, 0:09:32.928 --> 0:09:37.848 Do I then like cut down on my household appliances 0:09:37.848 --> 0:09:42.378 during those times to spread out my usage so I 0:09:42.378 --> 0:09:45.618 don't get hit with such a big bill at the 0:09:45.618 --> 0:09:49.638 end or something like that. So yeah, any kind of 0:09:49.638 --> 0:09:55.968 information that is presented in a logical manner is really useful. However, 0:09:55.968 --> 0:09:58.758 most of the times I'm left with, okay, like I 0:09:58.758 --> 0:10:02.028 have to pay this much money. I'm not too sure 0:10:02.028 --> 0:10:05.508 why I have some suspicions. Maybe it's because I like 0:10:05.508 --> 0:10:09.228 to use the dishwasher at 5 p.m. instead of 12 p.m. 0:10:09.228 --> 0:10:12.228 but I can't know that for sure from this bill. 0:10:12.228 --> 0:10:14.898 So let me call them up and talk to them. 0:10:14.988 --> 0:10:16.848 And that takes time. 0:10:16.998 --> 0:10:20.298 Does Yeah. And you know, it seems that bills across 0:10:20.298 --> 0:10:23.328 the board at the moment, unfortunately, they're quite hit and 0:10:23.328 --> 0:10:28.818 miss and they're unpredictable because there's no requirements around compliance 0:10:28.818 --> 0:10:33.678 with accessibility standards or benchmarks. There's a few holes, as 0:10:33.678 --> 0:10:37.788 I understand it, in the legislation where, you know, things 0:10:37.788 --> 0:10:40.998 aren't as up to date with, you know, where they 0:10:40.998 --> 0:10:43.968 need to be and the acts that are drawn up 0:10:43.968 --> 0:10:48.468 that are currently in effect, they don't specify about online 0:10:48.468 --> 0:10:53.178 things such as these Web based documents. And that's a 0:10:53.178 --> 0:10:57.048 problem in and of itself. So what would you like 0:10:57.048 --> 0:11:00.078 to see change in these sort of areas? 0:11:00.288 --> 0:11:05.238 Okay. So as I understand it, there is a change. 0:11:05.238 --> 0:11:09.138 The guideline for accessible PDF is going to be updated 0:11:09.138 --> 0:11:13.908 later this year to be in line with either the 0:11:13.908 --> 0:11:20.988 2018 or the 2023 guideline. Currently we're on 2009 and 0:11:21.438 --> 0:11:24.978 there have been so many things like Tick Tock wasn't 0:11:24.978 --> 0:11:30.078 even thought of, Instagram wasn't around back then. So that's 0:11:30.078 --> 0:11:33.438 just to give you an idea of how fast the 0:11:33.438 --> 0:11:37.938 technological world has moved on from that point in time 0:11:38.058 --> 0:11:41.508 in terms of what would I like to see? I 0:11:41.508 --> 0:11:44.208 think what I would really love to see is for 0:11:44.208 --> 0:11:48.108 more people to be aware of the principles of universal 0:11:48.108 --> 0:11:52.808 designs of designing things, whether digital or physical. Like, you know, 0:11:52.878 --> 0:11:56.208 you think about what kind of people who will like 0:11:56.208 --> 0:11:59.118 to use this from the beginning instead of, Oh yeah, 0:11:59.118 --> 0:12:03.558 like we'll build something and then we'll retrofit for people 0:12:03.558 --> 0:12:07.218 who have disabilities usually when that happens. We don't get 0:12:07.218 --> 0:12:11.568 the best experience. However, if we're there from the beginning 0:12:11.568 --> 0:12:16.968 of your app building and your website coding and whatever, 0:12:17.088 --> 0:12:21.378 it does give us a much better experience in terms 0:12:21.378 --> 0:12:27.438 of being able to participate in those. And unfortunately, most 0:12:27.438 --> 0:12:32.118 of us are not in a position to stop interacting 0:12:32.118 --> 0:12:36.918 with something like utility bills, like we need electricity. And 0:12:36.918 --> 0:12:40.158 unless if we're really in a position to be off 0:12:40.158 --> 0:12:43.368 the grid, most of us have to pay for our electricity. 0:12:43.368 --> 0:12:46.608 But I think especially in the cost of living crisis, 0:12:46.608 --> 0:12:50.298 it's a really reasonable ask to know what is it 0:12:50.298 --> 0:12:54.288 exactly are we paying for and how can we cut 0:12:54.288 --> 0:12:55.368 if we want to? 0:13:02.538 --> 0:13:05.658 I'm Sam Culley and you're listening to Talking Vision on 0:13:05.658 --> 0:13:10.578 Vision Australia radio associated stations of RPA and the Community 0:13:10.578 --> 0:13:14.358 Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed the first half of 0:13:14.358 --> 0:13:18.348 my interview with Andrea Andrean. If you missed any part 0:13:18.348 --> 0:13:21.018 of the interview with Ray or you'd love to hear 0:13:21.018 --> 0:13:24.318 it again, the interview will be available as an interview 0:13:24.318 --> 0:13:28.878 highlight on our podcast platform. Just simply head to the 0:13:28.878 --> 0:13:32.208 podcast app of your choice, or you can also access 0:13:32.208 --> 0:13:36.498 it through the Vision Australia Library. And now back to 0:13:36.498 --> 0:13:39.708 my interview with Ray. There's a bit to be said 0:13:39.708 --> 0:13:44.178 about the lack of accessibility in hardware and software associated 0:13:44.178 --> 0:13:48.168 with these new and emerging technologies. I mean, for example, 0:13:48.168 --> 0:13:51.438 with your utilities, you want to know information about your 0:13:51.438 --> 0:13:54.378 smart meter. You might want to know what your solar 0:13:54.378 --> 0:13:56.928 panels are doing, how much you know, do you get 0:13:56.928 --> 0:13:59.178 a rebate for your solar panel? Where do you find 0:13:59.178 --> 0:14:03.198 that information? And, you know, there's things about monitoring batteries 0:14:03.198 --> 0:14:06.858 and power cells that are used by consumers as backups 0:14:06.858 --> 0:14:10.278 to solar panels. There's a lot of new technologies that 0:14:10.278 --> 0:14:15.158 perhaps bills aren't keeping up to date with or they haven't. 0:14:15.168 --> 0:14:15.738 I'd love to. 0:14:15.738 --> 0:14:17.328 Know their information. 0:14:17.328 --> 0:14:21.018 I would, Yeah, that's very important information because if you've 0:14:21.018 --> 0:14:23.868 got these things hooked up, you want to know like 0:14:23.868 --> 0:14:27.408 what impact that's having on your usage and on your 0:14:27.408 --> 0:14:28.908 bills that you have to pay. 0:14:28.908 --> 0:14:32.208 And I want to know in real time. Absolutely. That's the. 0:14:32.208 --> 0:14:35.508 Thing. Like if you can't monitor your electricity usage through 0:14:35.508 --> 0:14:39.138 your smart meter, then you can't make informed choices about 0:14:39.138 --> 0:14:44.088 how you use electricity to maximize savings and minimize cost 0:14:44.088 --> 0:14:47.628 regardless of how accessible your actual bill is. So I 0:14:47.628 --> 0:14:50.388 think that really gets to the heart of this whole 0:14:50.388 --> 0:14:53.058 conversation that we're having right now, doesn't it? 0:14:53.178 --> 0:14:56.898 Yeah. So, for instance, I have a solar panel that 0:14:56.898 --> 0:15:00.978 comes with an app and there are two pertinent bits 0:15:00.978 --> 0:15:03.588 in the app. So these comes in a series. So 0:15:03.588 --> 0:15:06.948 the first series of figures is how much solar has 0:15:06.948 --> 0:15:11.718 been produced today. And then an unlabeled figure, if you 0:15:11.718 --> 0:15:15.618 can actually see it, has like a house with numbers 0:15:15.618 --> 0:15:19.878 inside the circle. So that actually represents like how much 0:15:19.878 --> 0:15:23.478 electricity I'm using in the house right now. And then 0:15:23.478 --> 0:15:26.748 the third figure in the series is how much the 0:15:26.748 --> 0:15:30.198 solar panel is producing now. And the fourth figure, which 0:15:30.198 --> 0:15:34.248 is a lightning tower with a light bulb which is unlabeled, 0:15:34.248 --> 0:15:38.358 is how much electricity from the grid am I using? 0:15:38.358 --> 0:15:43.578 So it's not the clearest, but I can navigate that. However, 0:15:43.578 --> 0:15:47.928 further down the app, like there's a much more comprehensive 0:15:47.928 --> 0:15:52.608 breakdown with lots of series and figures and yeah, I 0:15:52.608 --> 0:15:57.618 just cannot remember everything. Like no matter how many times 0:15:57.618 --> 0:16:01.188 people tell me, Oh yeah, it's like Abcd. By the 0:16:01.188 --> 0:16:04.848 time you get to the figure, I just can't remember. Oh, 0:16:04.848 --> 0:16:08.928 what was that about again? Like was that the electricity 0:16:08.928 --> 0:16:11.798 of the month or was that the how much I 0:16:11.808 --> 0:16:16.008 use today from the grid? Yeah. I just can't remember everything, 0:16:16.008 --> 0:16:17.838 especially if it's not labeled. 0:16:17.838 --> 0:16:21.018 And is that a separate app away from, you know, 0:16:21.018 --> 0:16:24.318 the utility bills or is that sort of are they 0:16:24.318 --> 0:16:25.588 all I guess it's. 0:16:25.608 --> 0:16:26.478 A separate app. 0:16:26.478 --> 0:16:30.168 Okay. And that sort of that also adds an extra 0:16:30.168 --> 0:16:34.698 layer of complexity for you to understand how they relate 0:16:34.698 --> 0:16:37.698 to each other and all that sort of thing. So 0:16:37.698 --> 0:16:42.158 that's probably another little bit of a challenge there for sure. 0:16:42.168 --> 0:16:46.158 So if a person finds that their utility bill isn't 0:16:46.158 --> 0:16:49.278 accessible in that, it doesn't allow them to read and 0:16:49.278 --> 0:16:53.058 understand the information they need, what would you suggest they 0:16:53.058 --> 0:16:54.048 should do? 0:16:54.588 --> 0:16:58.008 Okay. First thing first. I mean, this is based on 0:16:58.008 --> 0:17:01.698 what I would do. I will call up the electricity 0:17:01.698 --> 0:17:05.358 company and ask them to explain to me, look, I've 0:17:05.358 --> 0:17:09.108 got this bill. I don't get it. Can you please 0:17:09.108 --> 0:17:12.048 talk through? And if you don't understand, because they will 0:17:12.048 --> 0:17:18.918 use words like Off-peak charges and On-Demand charges and daily 0:17:18.918 --> 0:17:23.238 this and whatever. Like if you don't understand those words, 0:17:23.448 --> 0:17:26.958 ask them like, can you please explain and then say 0:17:26.958 --> 0:17:29.978 it back to them. Okay, so I've got my office 0:17:30.058 --> 0:17:35.028 charges this much, plus the daily charges that much. So 0:17:35.028 --> 0:17:38.988 this figure, plus that figure that makes that figure times, 0:17:39.318 --> 0:17:43.008 you know, your average days of what you've been billed for, 0:17:43.008 --> 0:17:46.428 like break it down with them and then after that, 0:17:46.428 --> 0:17:51.138 ask them, can you please provide me with this information 0:17:51.138 --> 0:17:55.068 in a format that I can read? And, you know, 0:17:55.068 --> 0:17:58.008 there's always in Australia, you can always tell them that 0:17:58.248 --> 0:18:03.018 vision Australia has. Transcription department that can help you with this. 0:18:03.028 --> 0:18:05.548 If you can't do it in house, go ask them 0:18:05.548 --> 0:18:06.688 if they can help you. 0:18:06.688 --> 0:18:10.948 And if all of that doesn't result in a satisfactory situation, 0:18:10.948 --> 0:18:15.088 then people can always consider lodging a complaint of disability 0:18:15.088 --> 0:18:18.328 discrimination because, you know, people should feel that they have 0:18:18.328 --> 0:18:22.918 that ability to do that, either under the Disability Discrimination 0:18:22.918 --> 0:18:27.118 Act or the relevant state or territory legislation. Do you 0:18:27.118 --> 0:18:29.458 think that would result in a bit more of a 0:18:29.458 --> 0:18:33.838 satisfactory outcome for people who are facing that sort of situation? 0:18:34.078 --> 0:18:38.218 You know, I always consider lodging a complaint with the 0:18:38.218 --> 0:18:43.258 Human Rights Commission as something that every person with disability 0:18:43.258 --> 0:18:48.898 who have experienced discrimination should do. However, I am also 0:18:48.898 --> 0:18:52.198 conscious that for lots of us, especially if we are 0:18:52.228 --> 0:18:55.498 working full time, blah blah blah, it takes a lot 0:18:55.498 --> 0:18:59.108 of mental and physical energy to be able to do so. 0:18:59.128 --> 0:19:01.038 Time consuming information. 0:19:01.738 --> 0:19:06.358 And things like that. So what I've done is I 0:19:06.358 --> 0:19:11.158 used my network to tell my story. In this case, 0:19:11.158 --> 0:19:15.748 I filled out a form at an ABC story about, 0:19:15.748 --> 0:19:20.428 you know, what I experienced, and I work with journalists 0:19:20.428 --> 0:19:23.158 to be able to get to the bottom of this 0:19:23.158 --> 0:19:24.478 particular issue. 0:19:24.658 --> 0:19:27.358 You know, there are a lot of different ways that 0:19:27.358 --> 0:19:31.228 people can get their voice heard, and that's super important 0:19:31.228 --> 0:19:34.948 for people to get that message out there. So thank 0:19:34.948 --> 0:19:38.128 you for catching up with me today and sharing your 0:19:38.128 --> 0:19:41.278 story and telling us all about the way that you've 0:19:41.278 --> 0:19:45.088 gone about things and the experiences that you've had today. 0:19:45.088 --> 0:19:48.598 So thank you again for that. I've been speaking today 0:19:48.598 --> 0:19:53.128 with Ray Indranee and we've been talking all about utility 0:19:53.128 --> 0:19:56.608 bills and accessibility today. Raya, thank you so much for 0:19:56.608 --> 0:19:58.618 your time today. It was a pleasure to catch up 0:19:58.618 --> 0:20:01.018 with you again and likewise. 0:20:01.018 --> 0:20:03.148 Sam. Thank you so much for having me. 0:20:11.998 --> 0:20:15.448 Thank you very much to Raya and Rani there. And 0:20:15.448 --> 0:20:19.768 now from where we go to another favourite of talking vision. 0:20:19.768 --> 0:20:22.948 It's still a glory, still is. Here to give us 0:20:22.948 --> 0:20:27.388 the latest from the library and she joins me right now. Stella, 0:20:27.388 --> 0:20:29.818 welcome back to Talking Vision. Thanks so much for your 0:20:29.818 --> 0:20:31.018 time today. Oh, no. 0:20:31.018 --> 0:20:33.328 Need to thank me. It's always a pleasure. 0:20:33.478 --> 0:20:36.358 Now, Stella, I understand there's some events coming up in 0:20:36.358 --> 0:20:38.338 the library. Tell us all about those now. 0:20:38.338 --> 0:20:41.278 Do you have any skeletons in your closet? In your 0:20:41.278 --> 0:20:46.168 family closet? Most don't stop. Well, we all have a 0:20:46.168 --> 0:20:50.188 fascinating story in our family that needs to be told. 0:20:50.188 --> 0:20:54.028 So the library is doing this fantastic series of workshops. 0:20:54.028 --> 0:20:58.108 It's run over three weeks. It's called Writing Family History. 0:20:58.318 --> 0:21:00.898 So as I said, we all have a fascinating story 0:21:00.898 --> 0:21:04.138 in our family. But where do we begin? Where do 0:21:04.138 --> 0:21:07.798 we look? Who do we speak to? It's being facilitated 0:21:07.798 --> 0:21:11.608 by author Jonathan Butler, and he wrote a book called 0:21:11.608 --> 0:21:14.698 The Boy in the Dress, and it's about a member 0:21:14.698 --> 0:21:18.808 of his family who was a former soldier. And Jonathan 0:21:18.808 --> 0:21:22.648 will use his own experience in research and writing about 0:21:22.648 --> 0:21:28.378 his ancestors. Participants will be provided with actionable advice on 0:21:28.378 --> 0:21:32.218 how to pick a story. Helpful Australian archives to check 0:21:32.218 --> 0:21:37.318 out and a deep dive into true crime and defence research. 0:21:37.468 --> 0:21:41.458 It is free for library members and it starts on Tuesday, 0:21:41.458 --> 0:21:47.428 August 22nd at 11 a.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time. It 0:21:47.428 --> 0:21:51.988 runs over three Tuesdays. This one is going to book out, 0:21:51.988 --> 0:21:56.818 I reckon, because our library members love an autobiography. They 0:21:56.818 --> 0:22:01.558 sure do. Yeah. So get in. Another thing that the 0:22:01.558 --> 0:22:05.728 library is running, especially for young people. They're looking for 0:22:05.728 --> 0:22:09.928 young people and big ideas. They are on the hunt 0:22:09.928 --> 0:22:14.098 for a group of vibrant young, library loving members aged 0:22:14.098 --> 0:22:20.488 12 to 17, to help revolutionise their library experience. So 0:22:20.488 --> 0:22:22.888 they just want to make sure that the library is 0:22:22.888 --> 0:22:27.238 working hard for the youth element of the library. And 0:22:27.238 --> 0:22:30.028 now there are some solid perks for being part of 0:22:30.028 --> 0:22:34.618 the focus group, including gift cards, sneak peeks to upcoming 0:22:34.618 --> 0:22:39.088 initiatives and the chance to share your ideas with like 0:22:39.088 --> 0:22:43.138 minded teens. Now the other big news at the library 0:22:43.138 --> 0:22:47.368 is that they have launched it's a Biblio therapy podcast series. 0:22:47.368 --> 0:22:49.108 Do you know what Biblio therapy is? 0:22:49.108 --> 0:22:51.568 Sam Therapy of the book, by any chance? 0:22:51.568 --> 0:22:55.498 That's probably about it. And it's how a story in 0:22:55.498 --> 0:22:58.318 the book can help us with what's going on in 0:22:58.318 --> 0:23:02.248 our own lives. And this particular one is a wellbeing 0:23:02.248 --> 0:23:06.538 through stories with Dr. Susan to help you relax, reflect 0:23:06.538 --> 0:23:11.308 and renew. There are nine in the series, three for adults, 0:23:11.308 --> 0:23:16.888 three for young adults, and three for children. They are 0:23:16.888 --> 0:23:21.178 available through the library so you can listen through your 0:23:21.178 --> 0:23:25.318 device of choice. Now, would you like to find out 0:23:25.318 --> 0:23:30.208 how you can join any of our events or sign 0:23:30.208 --> 0:23:32.698 up for the youth focus group? 0:23:32.848 --> 0:23:34.408 Absolutely. Still, I'd love to. 0:23:34.498 --> 0:23:37.858 Well, the library newsletter will be out next week in 0:23:37.858 --> 0:23:42.358 hitting people's inboxes and all of these events and stories, 0:23:42.358 --> 0:23:47.068 including the upcoming Treat Yourself will be in the newsletter 0:23:47.068 --> 0:23:51.238 plus more. Or you can join the library. If you're 0:23:51.238 --> 0:23:53.218 not a member of the library, you can give them 0:23:53.218 --> 0:24:04.318 a call on 1300 654 656. That's 1300 654 656. Or get onto the 0:24:04.318 --> 0:24:09.478 Vision Australia website. All the events and information are in there. 0:24:09.868 --> 0:24:12.478 All right. So do keep an eye out for that. 0:24:12.478 --> 0:24:15.628 There's a lot of exciting things going on in the library, 0:24:15.628 --> 0:24:19.438 so check them out. Stella, it's been great to have 0:24:19.438 --> 0:24:21.568 you back on the show. It's a pleasure to chat 0:24:21.568 --> 0:24:24.198 as always. Thanks so much for your time today. 0:24:24.208 --> 0:24:25.138 Thanks, Sam. 0:24:32.148 --> 0:24:35.738 And now here's Francis Kelland with a reader recommended. 0:24:35.748 --> 0:24:39.498 Thank you, Sam. Today's reader recommended is about a city. 0:24:39.498 --> 0:24:41.758 It's a love song to a city in a memoir. 0:24:41.778 --> 0:24:47.008 It's called Perth and it's by David Whish-Wilson. David Whish-Wilson 0:24:47.028 --> 0:24:50.208 Perth is a place of surprising beauty, of sand swept 0:24:50.208 --> 0:24:53.028 peace and brilliant light, yet a place where the deeper 0:24:53.028 --> 0:24:57.198 historical currents are never too far beneath the surface, like 0:24:57.198 --> 0:24:59.778 the Swan River that flows in two directions at once, 0:24:59.778 --> 0:25:03.348 at certain times, with the fresh water flowing seaward above 0:25:03.348 --> 0:25:07.068 the salty water flowing in beneath it. Perth strikes perfect 0:25:07.068 --> 0:25:11.838 harmony with the city's contradictions and eccentricities. We look beyond 0:25:11.838 --> 0:25:15.438 the shiny glass facades, the boisterous talk of mining booms 0:25:15.438 --> 0:25:18.648 to the richness of the natural world and the trailblazers, 0:25:18.648 --> 0:25:22.248 the rebels, the occasional ghost and the ordinary people that 0:25:22.248 --> 0:25:26.358 bring Australia's remotest city to life. Let's hear a sample 0:25:26.358 --> 0:25:30.108 of David Whish-Wilson book, Perth Twice. 0:25:30.108 --> 0:25:32.958 A day The Skin of the Swan River rises in 0:25:32.958 --> 0:25:36.168 a small ripple as the tidal surge makes its way 0:25:36.168 --> 0:25:39.738 from the river mouth at Fremantle through Perth. Water and 0:25:39.738 --> 0:25:42.018 up into the higher reaches of the river near the 0:25:42.018 --> 0:25:46.338 fast growing suburb of Ellenbrook, just over 20km north east 0:25:46.338 --> 0:25:50.498 of Perth. In winter when a layer of brackish water 0:25:50.498 --> 0:25:53.828 runs off the scarp towards the ocean, the river flows 0:25:53.828 --> 0:25:57.968 in two directions with the freshwater flowing seaward above the 0:25:57.968 --> 0:26:02.798 saline water flowing in beneath it. Today, The diurnal bulge 0:26:02.798 --> 0:26:07.108 of water that reveals the incoming tide is invisible. It's 0:26:07.108 --> 0:26:09.628 a Sunday morning and I'm out on the river in 0:26:09.628 --> 0:26:14.008 an open kayak with my Uncle Scott, my father's youngest brother. 0:26:15.968 --> 0:26:19.058 Scott moved from Tasmania to Perth as a teenager in 0:26:19.058 --> 0:26:23.278 the 1970s. Like so many others, he stayed for the 0:26:23.278 --> 0:26:26.818 climate and the lifestyle and the opportunity to work. 0:26:27.448 --> 0:26:30.298 So that was Perth by David Whish-Wilson. There was a 0:26:30.298 --> 0:26:35.338 series of books by writers that wrote about the city 0:26:35.338 --> 0:26:37.798 that they grew up in, and so there's ones for 0:26:37.798 --> 0:26:40.408 all of the capital cities around Australia. If you would 0:26:40.408 --> 0:26:42.328 like that book or if you would like to find 0:26:42.328 --> 0:26:45.238 out more about how the Vision Australia Library can work 0:26:45.238 --> 0:26:48.028 for you. If you have a print disability, give the 0:26:48.028 --> 0:26:56.908 library a call on 1300 654 656. That's 1300 654 656. Or you can 0:26:56.908 --> 0:27:03.208 email library at Vision Australia. Org that's library at Vision Australia. Org. 0:27:03.388 --> 0:27:06.718 And that's all we have time for today. You've been 0:27:06.718 --> 0:27:11.068 listening to Talking Vision. Talking Vision is a production of 0:27:11.068 --> 0:27:15.058 Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the 0:27:15.058 --> 0:27:18.898 show together And remember we love your feedback and comments, 0:27:18.898 --> 0:27:22.618 so please do get in touch on Talking vision at 0:27:22.618 --> 0:27:29.428 Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all one word at Vision australia.org. 0:27:29.428 --> 0:27:33.448 But until next week it's Sam Colley saying bye for now. 0:27:36.998 --> 0:27:40.988 You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during 0:27:40.988 --> 0:27:49.868 business hours on one 308 4746. That's one 384 746 0:27:49.868 --> 0:27:55.178 or by visiting Vision australia.org that's Vision australia.org.