WEBVTT - Nothings off Limits - Confidence and Safety through body language and movement (Ep2) 0:00:03.790 --> 0:00:07.780 Nothing's off limits. It's off limits, bringing together experts and 0:00:07.780 --> 0:00:10.900 people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love 0:00:10.900 --> 0:00:14.210 to avoid but absolutely need to talk about. Made with 0:00:14.210 --> 0:00:18.130 the support of Vision Australia and the NDIS Information Linkages 0:00:18.130 --> 0:00:20.829 Capability Building Grant Building Grant. 0:00:23.710 --> 0:00:26.830 Hello and welcome to our second episode of our series 0:00:26.829 --> 0:00:29.260 where nothing is off limits. My name is Tess and 0:00:29.260 --> 0:00:33.100 together with my co-host Polly over the next 10 episodes, 0:00:33.310 --> 0:00:36.250 will be exploring some of those topics which we might 0:00:36.250 --> 0:00:40.690 usually consider off limits and discussing them openly, honestly through 0:00:40.690 --> 0:00:43.420 that specific lens of blindness and location. 0:00:43.450 --> 0:00:47.290 In this episode, we are talking about confidence and safety 0:00:47.290 --> 0:00:50.710 through body language and movement, what it feels like navigating 0:00:50.710 --> 0:00:53.980 different physical and social environments with new blind or have 0:00:53.980 --> 0:00:56.830 low vision. And we're going to delve into some strategies, 0:00:56.830 --> 0:01:00.190 tips and technology solutions out there, which can really help 0:01:00.190 --> 0:01:03.610 you interact with people and places with confidence and safety. 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.520 Whilst we were researching for the series. We heard from 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:08.920 some of you about how being blind or having low 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:12.220 vision can impact how confident you feel getting out and 0:01:12.220 --> 0:01:15.490 about and connecting with people. And we also heard concerns 0:01:15.490 --> 0:01:19.600 about how to stay safe and reduce actual and perceived vulnerability. 0:01:19.790 --> 0:01:22.720 What was really interesting was that these questions were not 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.740 only in relation to more typical orientation and mobility skills, 0:01:26.740 --> 0:01:29.919 but also around how to understand and master the elusive 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.740 arts of body language. How to hold a move your 0:01:32.740 --> 0:01:36.190 body in a way that accurately expresses your intent. Body 0:01:36.190 --> 0:01:41.679 language or non-verbal communication could encompass facial expressions, posture, gestures, 0:01:41.890 --> 0:01:45.640 points of contact, physical proximity and even breathing. And I 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.430 find out about the so-called seven percent rule, which says 0:01:48.460 --> 0:01:52.120 when we're communicating, seven percent of what is communicated is 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.620 via what is said. 38 percent is via tone of voice, 0:01:55.630 --> 0:01:59.650 and the majority 55 percent is via body language text 0:01:59.650 --> 0:02:02.080 that seems an extraordinarily high percentage. Does that 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.340 surprise you? Well, I'm not sure that it does poorly 0:02:05.410 --> 0:02:08.740 if you're not used to communicating in other ways. I 0:02:08.740 --> 0:02:11.500 think people do find it very easy to communicate through 0:02:11.500 --> 0:02:14.080 body language. But of course, that's not so easy if 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.960 you're blind or have low vision because you don't necessarily 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.470 know how somebody feels like. They might say that they're comfortable, 0:02:20.470 --> 0:02:23.680 or they might say that you should feel safe with them, 0:02:23.770 --> 0:02:25.780 but their body language might be saying something else. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.470 That's right, and numerous messaging tells us that confident body 0:02:29.470 --> 0:02:33.490 language is a key component of personal safety. And so testing, 0:02:33.490 --> 0:02:36.160 I asked you, how safe do you feel when you 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.050 are out on your own? Oh, we got some really 0:02:38.050 --> 0:02:39.130 interesting answers. 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:48.400 Nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly Polly. How safe 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:49.870 do you feel when you're on your own? 0:02:50.050 --> 0:02:54.070 I'm very lucky. I'm six foot four and have long, 0:02:54.070 --> 0:02:57.770 gangly limbs, so I don't feel physically threatened very often. 0:02:57.790 --> 0:02:59.470 I've only ever been run over once, and that was 0:02:59.470 --> 0:03:01.780 by somebody on a bicycle who didn't know his lights 0:03:01.780 --> 0:03:03.369 on at night. That hurt. 0:03:03.550 --> 0:03:06.850 Mostly, I feel very safe as an independent traveller. I've 0:03:06.850 --> 0:03:09.070 got the tools I need to ensure that I remain 0:03:09.070 --> 0:03:10.090 safe when I travel. 0:03:10.300 --> 0:03:14.620 I feel quite safe. I don't really have too many concerns. 0:03:14.889 --> 0:03:18.700 Not for me personally. I've got enough vision that I 0:03:18.700 --> 0:03:20.020 tend to do. I can. 0:03:20.470 --> 0:03:24.880 I feel pretty safe on my own. Generally speaking, always aware. 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.480 But I, you know, make sure that I keep my 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.110 safety top of mind, but I don't feel unsafe. 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:35.650 I feel safe when I'm on my own, depending on 0:03:35.770 --> 0:03:37.700 where I am, when I'm on my own. 0:03:38.350 --> 0:03:40.930 I feel relatively okay because I have a dog God, 0:03:40.930 --> 0:03:44.710 and my dog does alert me to, you know, strangers 0:03:44.710 --> 0:03:46.660 and odd sort of noises and things. 0:03:48.010 --> 0:03:51.490 I've never actually found this challenging. I actually really like 0:03:51.490 --> 0:03:53.170 my own company. I spend a lot of 0:03:53.170 --> 0:03:55.510 time on my own. The only time this would be 0:03:55.510 --> 0:03:59.080 challenging would be back to the mobility one. When I 0:03:59.110 --> 0:04:02.440 when I'm lost somewhere, I'm finding it really challenging to 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:04.900 find my way somewhere or if I'm in a new environment, 0:04:05.050 --> 0:04:08.410 can sometimes feel really overwhelming and it can feel a 0:04:08.410 --> 0:04:09.130 bit unsafe. 0:04:09.490 --> 0:04:12.670 You're listening to nothing's off limits with TESS and poorly 0:04:12.790 --> 0:04:14.950 produced by Vision Australia radio. 0:04:15.550 --> 0:04:18.310 I'd now like to welcome our first guest for this episode, 0:04:18.310 --> 0:04:21.700 who has some useful insights about staying safe in the home. 0:04:21.820 --> 0:04:26.020 Natalie Wade is the founder and principal lawyer at Equality 0:04:26.020 --> 0:04:29.830 Lawyers ACM, which is relatively unique in Australia, being set 0:04:29.830 --> 0:04:33.510 up by people with disabilities for people with disabilities. And Natalie, 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.440 thank you for being here. It's wonderful to chat, to 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:35.710 say 0:04:35.710 --> 0:04:38.229 thank you for having me. Probably interests and pleasure to 0:04:38.230 --> 0:04:38.710 be here. 0:04:38.830 --> 0:04:42.670 Have you noticed a sense of vulnerability around people being 0:04:42.670 --> 0:04:43.690 safe in their homes? 0:04:43.810 --> 0:04:50.589 Certainly in the high instalment, we often associate and pain 0:04:50.589 --> 0:04:54.400 and on issues that the safest place a person can 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.760 make is at home. But we know, and particularly in 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.910 the last year or sorry, in Australia, we've been having 0:05:00.910 --> 0:05:04.460 a very serious conversation within the. It's not an ingenuity 0:05:04.460 --> 0:05:07.780 about what is it to be safe at home and 0:05:07.790 --> 0:05:10.849 if we die to recycle home, what do we do? 0:05:11.060 --> 0:05:14.210 What particular legal rights should people be 0:05:14.210 --> 0:05:20.000 aware of in Australia? There are a number of laws 0:05:20.150 --> 0:05:25.420 that protect our people and to be safe at home 0:05:25.610 --> 0:05:29.870 and generally the criminal law. Of course, if if someone 0:05:29.870 --> 0:05:33.680 breaks into your house, then you should absolutely retain the 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.469 police and get someone out there to sort that out. 0:05:36.740 --> 0:05:41.540 If you are at home and if your family members 0:05:41.540 --> 0:05:45.979 is abusive to you, then you have specific laws that 0:05:45.980 --> 0:05:50.779 address family and domestic violence. But what is unique for 0:05:51.110 --> 0:05:55.029 people with disabilities from living in their homes is often 0:05:55.310 --> 0:05:58.789 there are other people in their home that provide them 0:05:58.790 --> 0:06:02.330 with support and care that they need to get about 0:06:02.330 --> 0:06:06.440 their everyday life and then can present some risk and 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:12.140 require other rules to protect them in those situations. So 0:06:12.380 --> 0:06:17.240 for people who are receiving the NDIS, the National Disability 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:22.330 Insurance Scheme, there are specific laws that regulate the people 0:06:22.330 --> 0:06:25.820 of the country to provide care in the home. And 0:06:25.820 --> 0:06:31.210 if those people do something bad that may be violent, 0:06:31.220 --> 0:06:36.350 it may be abusive and it may simply be disrespectful. 0:06:36.500 --> 0:06:43.430 And not acknowledging your right at home can make choices 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.900 to be safe and comfortable, then people with disabilities are 0:06:47.900 --> 0:06:53.150 able to reach out to the National Disability Insurance Scheme. 0:06:53.420 --> 0:06:59.360 Quality and Safeguards Commission Quality and Safeguards Commission is there 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:04.550 to ensure that people who provide support in the home 0:07:04.550 --> 0:07:09.740 and can people with disabilities steady and safe people to 0:07:09.740 --> 0:07:10.370 be around? 0:07:10.490 --> 0:07:14.660 What are some other proactive steps that people can take 0:07:14.810 --> 0:07:15.740 to stay safe in their 0:07:15.740 --> 0:07:22.130 homes, damaged in a particular and groundbreaking? If are observing 0:07:22.130 --> 0:07:29.030 a disability and you have concerns about how to be safe? 0:07:29.210 --> 0:07:32.990 I think it's really important for you to think about 0:07:33.500 --> 0:07:37.190 how are you on set? What are the risks that 0:07:37.190 --> 0:07:40.830 are facing you and how can you manage those? So 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.390 for people who are blind or how do I envision 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:48.320 them to be something as simple as needing to know 0:07:48.620 --> 0:07:51.140 who is in the front door sort? So having a 0:07:51.140 --> 0:07:57.590 system in place using assistive technology or being very old school, 0:07:57.770 --> 0:08:01.429 such as an intercom system where the person at the 0:08:01.430 --> 0:08:05.210 front door can tell you that the lady who they 0:08:05.210 --> 0:08:09.920 are as opposed to simply ringing a doorbell if they 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:14.690 direct your outdoor barriers and then having an intercom system 0:08:14.690 --> 0:08:18.620 where you're able to speak to the person who is 0:08:18.620 --> 0:08:22.010 at the front door and can be really valuable over 0:08:22.010 --> 0:08:25.160 three hours. And if you had people in your home 0:08:25.550 --> 0:08:29.390 that did there in a professional capacity, for example, support 0:08:29.390 --> 0:08:34.440 workers or allied health professionals visit you on a regular basis, 0:08:34.460 --> 0:08:38.270 you should have a really clear set of ground rules 0:08:38.270 --> 0:08:41.870 about what you need to make sure that you feel 0:08:41.870 --> 0:08:45.229 safe in the home. Again, this is to me very 0:08:45.230 --> 0:08:48.819 unique to your only experience experiencing disability, and it may 0:08:48.830 --> 0:08:51.960 not be a set of ground rules, but I saw 0:08:51.970 --> 0:08:54.800 it in person Ron Howard or a minor on the 0:08:54.950 --> 0:08:57.640 set of ground rules and then other people that are 0:08:57.650 --> 0:09:01.280 blind and vision impairments would have it can be as 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.309 urinated to you as you need it to be, and 0:09:04.429 --> 0:09:09.979 that a set of problems might include as clothes announce 0:09:09.980 --> 0:09:13.250 yourself when you walk into the room. So say your 0:09:13.250 --> 0:09:16.460 name when you come into any room, the bedroom, the 0:09:16.460 --> 0:09:21.290 bathroom in the front door, whatever it may be that 0:09:21.290 --> 0:09:25.670 you don't feel comfortable with people being in a certain 0:09:25.670 --> 0:09:29.750 space with you. You know, perhaps I don't want to 0:09:29.750 --> 0:09:33.559 sound like a public health officer, but I would probably 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.010 prefer a range of you, and no hands would probably 0:09:36.010 --> 0:09:39.650 be concerned because you find that to be overwhelming or 0:09:39.650 --> 0:09:43.420 you find it to be instructive to how you get around. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:48.380 And so you should make it really clear to those 0:09:48.380 --> 0:09:51.089 who work with you as to what you need to know. 0:09:51.179 --> 0:09:56.120 And then changing this on the ground can be communicated 0:09:56.510 --> 0:09:59.740 in a very old school fashion, writing, you know, in 0:09:59.750 --> 0:10:04.880 paper and pen. You lied to me. Not inclined to 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.980 me cry that in 1998, and you relied on me 0:10:08.980 --> 0:10:12.280 a little bit more modern, you could imagine a story 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.520 to the paper that are responsible for your care, what 0:10:15.580 --> 0:10:20.410 you're you to have it ready on my rostering system 0:10:20.530 --> 0:10:24.340 that you use electronically to manage your staff so that 0:10:24.340 --> 0:10:29.079 they are rare when they're working with you. What is required, sir? 0:10:29.230 --> 0:10:33.130 I think it probably speaks a little bit to regular visitors. 0:10:33.820 --> 0:10:36.260 And also people to your mind of its great friends 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.260 in the heart and the third group of people that 0:10:38.260 --> 0:10:43.209 you might want to consider. How is your family and 0:10:43.210 --> 0:10:46.480 their loved ones? Now, I would love to say that 0:10:46.570 --> 0:10:50.170 they don't need 80 years my age, and they are 0:10:50.170 --> 0:10:56.280 all magical and older. I mean, enjoy. Absolutely. Sure. Then 0:10:56.410 --> 0:10:59.829 that is, for the most part, very true. But I 0:10:59.830 --> 0:11:04.630 want to acknowledge that there are people with disabilities, disproportionately 0:11:04.750 --> 0:11:09.429 their friends, family and domestic violence. And I really rely 0:11:09.429 --> 0:11:12.429 on those people to know that if you are in 0:11:12.429 --> 0:11:18.050 that situation, if you are facing violence, abuse or neglect 0:11:18.070 --> 0:11:22.840 at home, then I would strongly encourage you to reach 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.410 out to a trusted friend or someone outside of the 0:11:26.410 --> 0:11:31.330 home to call a domestic violence or family violence hotline 0:11:31.540 --> 0:11:35.020 and really make sure that you have the support of 0:11:35.020 --> 0:11:38.170 others to deal with that and that you know that 0:11:38.170 --> 0:11:39.100 you are not alone. 0:11:39.460 --> 0:11:42.130 What's particularly exciting is that Natalie has agreed to come 0:11:42.130 --> 0:11:44.740 back and expand on some of the topics we talked 0:11:44.740 --> 0:11:47.829 about just touched on there around those relationships in the home, 0:11:47.830 --> 0:11:49.959 with your family and with your carers. So I'm really 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.000 looking forward to getting into some more details about that 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.130 with you. Then, Natalie, thank you so much. 0:11:54.220 --> 0:11:56.710 My absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. 0:11:57.190 --> 0:12:00.010 If this program has brought up any issues for you, 0:12:00.070 --> 0:12:05.200 please contact Lifeline on 13, 11, 14 or online at 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.860 Lifeline dot org dot Donahue. The suicide call back service 0:12:08.860 --> 0:12:13.180 is one 300 six five nine four six seven or 0:12:13.179 --> 0:12:16.960 online at Suicide Call Back Service dot org. Today you 0:12:17.170 --> 0:12:22.569 there's beyondblue 1300 double two four six three six and 0:12:22.570 --> 0:12:25.150 online and beyond blue dot org. 0:12:25.420 --> 0:12:26.050 Today you. 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.980 You're listening to Nothing's Off Limits with Tess and Polly. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:35.589 Did you know Vision Australia's orientation and mobility specialists can 0:12:35.590 --> 0:12:39.880 support you to move around safely and confidently? For more information, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.300 go to Vision Australia dot org or call us on 0:12:43.300 --> 0:12:49.059 one 300 eight four seven four W6 Vision Australia Blindness 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.130 Low Vision Opportunity. 0:12:51.220 --> 0:12:56.200 Our next guest is Namoi. Malcolm Namoi is Vision Australia's 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.670 emotional and social support program supervisor. He is also an 0:13:00.670 --> 0:13:04.060 advocate of the importance of understanding and using body language 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.230 and other non explicit, subtle social clues as a way 0:13:08.230 --> 0:13:12.100 to connect. And he's a keen student in understanding and 0:13:12.100 --> 0:13:15.250 using your voice and your body to engage with confidence. 0:13:15.370 --> 0:13:16.809 Namoi Thanks for being here. 0:13:17.050 --> 0:13:18.550 My pleasure and thanks for having me. 0:13:18.610 --> 0:13:22.120 In researching for this episode, we heard listeners talk about 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.420 how losing their sight can lead to a loss of 0:13:25.420 --> 0:13:29.620 confidence and an increase in self-consciousness. Is this something you've 0:13:29.620 --> 0:13:30.400 experienced now? 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:34.330 I did experience it when I originally lost my sight 0:13:34.330 --> 0:13:37.780 back in 1998 as someone who was at that time 0:13:37.780 --> 0:13:42.040 18 years old trying to find himself as an adult. 0:13:42.340 --> 0:13:44.710 So I did have that whole sense of what is 0:13:44.710 --> 0:13:48.460 my body doing in space? How am I being perceived 0:13:48.460 --> 0:13:50.350 by those around me and how do I want to 0:13:50.350 --> 0:13:51.100 be perceived? 0:13:51.250 --> 0:13:53.530 How did you regain that confidence? 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:58.090 Part of regaining that confidence was actually using my body, 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.780 so I, before I lost my sight, was practising martial arts, 0:14:01.990 --> 0:14:05.080 and I went back to martial arts after I lost 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.989 my sight. And it really forced me to continue to 0:14:07.990 --> 0:14:11.620 use and test my body to continue to use and 0:14:11.620 --> 0:14:15.699 test my balance by jumping my rolling, my kicking and punching. 0:14:15.790 --> 0:14:19.150 I was very physically active, and that really helped me 0:14:19.150 --> 0:14:23.020 to understand myself relative to the space around me. It 0:14:23.020 --> 0:14:26.320 also helps me to feel confident in my movement. 0:14:26.530 --> 0:14:29.650 That's a fantastic way of dealing with that. I think 0:14:29.650 --> 0:14:32.350 so many people have all sorts of creative ways of 0:14:32.350 --> 0:14:35.800 getting that confidence back and getting that at confidence, particularly 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.740 in their body. We did some surveys, and one listener 0:14:38.750 --> 0:14:42.130 shared that as their design had deteriorated, they had begun 0:14:42.130 --> 0:14:46.120 to feel more self-conscious. Now just read this. I worried 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.420 that people would see a person who was blind when 0:14:49.420 --> 0:14:52.420 I walked by and not the capable person I know 0:14:52.420 --> 0:14:56.260 I am normally. What strategies would you suggest for for 0:14:56.260 --> 0:14:59.230 coping with those fears of the impression that we make? 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:03.070 Because you're blind, it doesn't make you any less confident. 0:15:03.260 --> 0:15:06.850 I don't see separating the two. You're still a person, 0:15:06.860 --> 0:15:09.140 you just happened to be blind. So how does a 0:15:09.140 --> 0:15:13.040 person move through their environment with confidence? How do they 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:17.720 predict confidence when moving through their environment? Well, part of 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.260 that is about looking ahead, looking forward. Even when you 0:15:21.260 --> 0:15:24.200 feel a lost, you still look forward, you still walk 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.110 with a purpose. Part of that is also about using 0:15:27.110 --> 0:15:31.850 your mobility aids and your skills when traveling, whether it's 0:15:31.850 --> 0:15:34.880 making sure that you're moving in step with your cane 0:15:34.940 --> 0:15:37.820 or whether it's trying to stay relaxed. And at least 0:15:37.820 --> 0:15:40.970 if you're using a service dog, or if you're someone 0:15:40.970 --> 0:15:44.060 who has low vision and is using your hat or 0:15:44.060 --> 0:15:48.050 your glasses. It's just about wearing those things and really 0:15:48.050 --> 0:15:51.500 feeling like you're using all of your aids and equipment 0:15:51.500 --> 0:15:55.730 to your advantage. That's really where confidence comes from. Confidence 0:15:55.730 --> 0:15:59.090 comes from inside first. So if you're telling yourself that 0:15:59.090 --> 0:16:02.300 you're not confident in what you're doing, then people around 0:16:02.300 --> 0:16:04.280 you are going to think that you're not confident in 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.280 what you're doing. Let's be clear, as a person with 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.610 no vision myself, there are accidents. There are times when 0:16:10.610 --> 0:16:14.660 I apologize to Poles. There are times when I misstep 0:16:14.780 --> 0:16:19.010 and stumble. There are times when my step in front 0:16:19.010 --> 0:16:22.250 of a car that is just about to accelerate, so 0:16:22.250 --> 0:16:25.940 I have to quickly snap back. These things are things 0:16:25.940 --> 0:16:29.360 that happen to sighted people, to people who are fully sighted, 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.970 fully able bodied. They might be looking down at their 0:16:31.970 --> 0:16:34.640 phone rather than looking at the lights, which might cause 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.220 them to step in front of a vehicle. Sighted people 0:16:37.220 --> 0:16:41.000 bump into other people or bump into poles. They just 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:45.980 don't apologize when they do so. People aren't necessarily watching 0:16:45.980 --> 0:16:49.910 me do my thing, and if they are, well, that's 0:16:49.910 --> 0:16:50.810 just because I look good. 0:16:52.550 --> 0:16:55.120 That's great. And I should disclose as a sighted person, 0:16:55.130 --> 0:16:58.190 that's absolutely right. Whether you're glued to your phone or 0:16:58.190 --> 0:17:00.410 just in a daydream, you walk in to things, you 0:17:00.410 --> 0:17:03.859 stumble into people and polls, Nimoy as well. And I 0:17:03.860 --> 0:17:06.320 remember I'm going to a dinner once and sitting next 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.990 to a young woman who was blind, and I reached 0:17:08.990 --> 0:17:11.389 across the table and managed to knock over a jug 0:17:11.390 --> 0:17:13.310 of water that went all over the kind of the 0:17:13.310 --> 0:17:16.129 guest of honor. And after, you know, I apologized and 0:17:16.130 --> 0:17:17.990 got all flustered when I sat down, she said. I'm 0:17:17.990 --> 0:17:19.520 so relieved to hear that sighted people 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:25.220 do that as well. We absolutely terrible spilling wines the worst, 0:17:25.869 --> 0:17:29.179 at least. Definitely the stains. And I'm with you. I 0:17:29.180 --> 0:17:32.540 apologize falls as well. It sounds very much like those 0:17:32.540 --> 0:17:36.139 basic orientation or ability skills that we, I suppose when 0:17:36.140 --> 0:17:38.750 we lose our vision, we learn. We learned fairly quickly. 0:17:38.750 --> 0:17:41.950 It sounds like those basic skills are so very important. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:42.620 Is that right? 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.780 That's absolutely right. I think that practice doesn't make perfect. 0:17:46.790 --> 0:17:50.210 It just makes better. So the more that you are 0:17:50.300 --> 0:17:55.010 willing to use your orientation and mobility skills better off 0:17:55.010 --> 0:17:56.030 you will be when 0:17:56.030 --> 0:17:59.580 you're speaking with people, particularly perhaps for the first time. 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.500 How do you give that right vibe so that so 0:18:02.510 --> 0:18:05.300 that you can interact on your own terms and remain 0:18:05.300 --> 0:18:07.790 in control of your body, so not get dragged across 0:18:07.790 --> 0:18:08.330 the road? 0:18:08.540 --> 0:18:12.260 We have well-meaning people in the world, and those well-meaning 0:18:12.260 --> 0:18:14.930 people will see me as a person with a disability 0:18:14.930 --> 0:18:19.160 and think that he must need help. He must need saving. 0:18:19.220 --> 0:18:23.450 Despite my best efforts to move with confidence, to move 0:18:23.450 --> 0:18:27.830 with grace, to move with purpose, people may still feel 0:18:27.830 --> 0:18:30.590 like they need to be my hero. So for me, 0:18:30.590 --> 0:18:33.740 it's less about stopping people from doing it and being 0:18:33.740 --> 0:18:37.260 conscious and ready to react when people do grab me. 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.750 When people do enter my space unwanted. One of the 0:18:41.750 --> 0:18:44.780 techniques that I tend to use is simply to stop. 0:18:44.810 --> 0:18:48.080 And it doesn't matter where I am. If someone enters 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.020 my space, if they reach in and they grab me. 0:18:51.050 --> 0:18:54.240 I just stop. I stop and I turn my full 0:18:54.260 --> 0:18:57.710 attention on them. I will verbally ask them to let 0:18:57.710 --> 0:19:00.980 me go. I'm verbally ask them to remove themselves from me. 0:19:01.010 --> 0:19:04.359 I will verbally let them know that I'm confident that 0:19:04.369 --> 0:19:07.040 I am in control. I know what I'm doing if 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.220 they can't speak English or if they don't understand me. 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.649 The simple fact that I have stopped is enough to 0:19:12.650 --> 0:19:15.439 alert them that what they're doing is unwanted. And if 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.170 I need to our physically remove their hand from my 0:19:18.170 --> 0:19:21.949 person or from my backpack or from my pain, and 0:19:22.220 --> 0:19:24.590 they will get the point that I'm not going with them. 0:19:25.740 --> 0:19:29.250 I use this technique even when I'm boarding a train 0:19:29.250 --> 0:19:31.980 or getting off of a train or bus. If one 0:19:31.980 --> 0:19:34.680 foot's on the platform and the other foot's on the train, 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.920 I will just stop and I won't move until they 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:42.660 let me go. And I will use verbal cues, but 0:19:42.660 --> 0:19:46.050 I also use that non-verbal. I'm not moving until you 0:19:46.050 --> 0:19:49.830 release me to. And most people get the hint fairly quickly. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.159 Nimoy, thank you so much. Some really amazing strategies and 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.800 insights you've got there around how to maintain that physical 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.439 agency and confidence. Thank you so much for sharing. We 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.020 could talk for much longer, but thank you for coming on. 0:20:01.170 --> 0:20:02.910 My pleasure. Thanks for listening. 0:20:03.270 --> 0:20:06.990 Our final guest is Darren Moyle Difference in Orientation and 0:20:06.990 --> 0:20:10.110 mobility specialist at Vision Australia. Darren, thank you so much 0:20:10.109 --> 0:20:10.770 for joining us. 0:20:10.850 --> 0:20:12.239 Now, Ari, it's good to be here. Can you 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.090 maybe start by telling us what's an orientation to mobility 0:20:15.090 --> 0:20:17.699 or an especialistas specialist does and why you're so passionate 0:20:17.700 --> 0:20:18.690 about it as a career? 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.920 Orientation mobility, in a sense, is quite broad, but basically, 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:24.540 if you to look at any of the textbooks would 0:20:24.540 --> 0:20:26.700 say it's teaching, someone who is blind has a vision 0:20:26.700 --> 0:20:29.340 to get from point A to point B safely and effectively. 0:20:29.350 --> 0:20:32.310 But really, when people ask me what my job is, 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.500 I explain to people that I teach people who are 0:20:34.500 --> 0:20:37.080 blind have a vision to solve everyday problems so they 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.929 can navigate their world and participate in their community or 0:20:39.930 --> 0:20:43.320 participate in activities as they would wish to leave that 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:45.510 loss that they choose. And being able to move around 0:20:45.510 --> 0:20:48.030 your world is a key component of that. Whether it's 0:20:48.030 --> 0:20:51.149 sort of a physical setting or even navigate social settings 0:20:51.150 --> 0:20:53.460 gives people the freedom to be able to head out 0:20:53.460 --> 0:20:56.250 and catch up with friends or join local sporting clubs, 0:20:56.250 --> 0:20:58.679 or be able to attain work and move around the 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:00.540 place and be a confident traveler. 0:21:00.660 --> 0:21:03.540 Darren, you've kindly agreed to share some strategies that can 0:21:03.540 --> 0:21:05.790 help in tackling some of the kind of the typically 0:21:05.790 --> 0:21:08.369 tricky and daunting scenarios. And I guess I'm thinking in 0:21:08.369 --> 0:21:12.930 particular about navigating completely new environments or using public transport 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.480 and meeting up at cafes and bars and restaurants. 0:21:15.619 --> 0:21:17.730 You know, there are a lot of challenges around that. 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:19.620 So a big part of that would be that having 0:21:19.619 --> 0:21:22.260 the mobility skills, so you know, we probably are familiar with, 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.390 you know, people who use mobility. I like a long 0:21:24.390 --> 0:21:28.169 cane or an ID cane, as well as electronic aids 0:21:28.500 --> 0:21:31.290 that might help people travel so that use sonar or 0:21:31.290 --> 0:21:34.200 other technology that we use on our on our smartphone, 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:35.910 which we'll get into later. But a lot of the 0:21:35.910 --> 0:21:37.619 work that we do is to be able to provide 0:21:37.619 --> 0:21:40.230 people with skills so they can navigate these sort of 0:21:40.230 --> 0:21:42.960 complex areas. So when you're waiting for a bus and 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.909 you have three different bus routes to go through the 0:21:44.910 --> 0:21:46.740 one stop, how do you have the skills to ask 0:21:46.740 --> 0:21:48.930 the driver, is this the correct bus? Can I use 0:21:48.930 --> 0:21:51.300 that for a talk? There's an app or some sort 0:21:51.300 --> 0:21:54.030 of technology to know, Is this my bus? So I'm 0:21:54.030 --> 0:21:55.500 not making it, so I'm not getting on the wrong 0:21:55.500 --> 0:21:58.320 one and heading off the opposite direction, heading into cafes 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.869 and things that those kind of indoor environments and whether 0:22:00.869 --> 0:22:03.780 it's a cafe or a classroom at a school or 0:22:03.810 --> 0:22:06.010 a new lecture theatre teaching people to be able to 0:22:06.150 --> 0:22:09.270 walk into that space and trying to grab some information 0:22:09.270 --> 0:22:11.520 immediately about it. You know, how big is the room, 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.040 whether we're using our vision, our remaining vision as a 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.119 sense to be able to get that information or, you know, 0:22:16.150 --> 0:22:19.570 using sound echolocation so that the sound that you know, 0:22:19.619 --> 0:22:21.359 people who are blind to have a vision, some people 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:23.639 have the ability, said he sounds bounce off walls and 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:25.619 that gives gives an accurate description of kind of how 0:22:25.619 --> 0:22:27.750 big the room might be or how dense it might 0:22:27.750 --> 0:22:30.260 be with furniture. The way now to get this information 0:22:30.270 --> 0:22:32.370 at the start is really useful. And then also having 0:22:32.369 --> 0:22:34.320 the skills to be able to try and navigate that 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.320 space and try and discover that area for yourself. So 0:22:37.470 --> 0:22:39.540 how big is it and what's the perimeter like? You 0:22:39.540 --> 0:22:41.369 know where the table's laid out in this cafe and 0:22:41.369 --> 0:22:43.680 where is the counter? Where do I order my coffee from? 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:45.990 And once I've ordered my my latte with one sugar, 0:22:45.990 --> 0:22:48.540 where do I go and stand and collect the coffee? And. 0:22:48.690 --> 0:22:53.130 And sometimes sometimes that is where an orientation my mobility 0:22:53.130 --> 0:22:55.590 specialist might come in to provide that extra layer of 0:22:55.590 --> 0:22:58.830 information that sometimes is visual to be able to give 0:22:58.830 --> 0:23:01.830 people that little bit extra information that they might need 0:23:01.830 --> 0:23:04.770 to get, feel free and confident to walk into that 0:23:04.770 --> 0:23:06.780 space and know that they can. They know sort of 0:23:06.780 --> 0:23:09.300 the social cues and they know the social environment that 0:23:09.300 --> 0:23:12.570 they're walking into. Now I'm an orientation of my mobility specialist, 0:23:12.570 --> 0:23:14.639 but I also have low vision, so that's probably a 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:16.230 big part of why I'm so passionate about the role 0:23:16.230 --> 0:23:17.639 as well, because I live it every day. 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:20.850 I know you're really passionate about more high-tech options. I 0:23:20.850 --> 0:23:23.280 think you can introduce us to three apps which have 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:25.890 really kind of revolutionized mobility for the community. 0:23:25.950 --> 0:23:28.199 One of my top picks of my favorite apps is 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:30.929 an app called Microsoft Soundscape. What this is, this is 0:23:30.930 --> 0:23:33.990 an app that uses 3D audio. So if you're using 0:23:33.990 --> 0:23:36.560 bone conducting headphones so you have some headphones in your ears, 0:23:36.570 --> 0:23:38.430 imagine you going to a brand new place. You know 0:23:38.430 --> 0:23:41.010 you've gone to the Gold Coast for the weekend. Lovely. 0:23:41.100 --> 0:23:43.949 You could. Yeah, you can turn this app on walking 0:23:43.950 --> 0:23:46.650 with soundscape. With this three day directional sand, I can 0:23:46.650 --> 0:23:49.440 hear that there's an idea directly off to my left 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:51.660 and I can hear that there's a McDonald's up ahead 0:23:51.660 --> 0:23:53.459 of me. I can hear about the names of the 0:23:53.460 --> 0:23:56.760 brains that I'm passing. So kind of provides a greater 0:23:56.760 --> 0:23:59.730 level of orientation so you can feel more confident navigating 0:23:59.730 --> 0:24:00.540 these spaces. 0:24:00.780 --> 0:24:02.640 Is there anything else out there? Maybe if you're kind 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:04.290 of going on some public transport, I know that can 0:24:04.290 --> 0:24:05.159 be quite challenging. 0:24:05.220 --> 0:24:07.170 If you're an author and user next year. If you're 0:24:07.170 --> 0:24:10.510 an Android user, you could use an app called Transit. 0:24:10.530 --> 0:24:13.110 But essentially what this does at the bus stop your app, 0:24:13.140 --> 0:24:16.080 you can open it up and pinpoint your location using GPS. 0:24:16.109 --> 0:24:18.120 You can choose the bus stop you're standing at with 0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:20.129 voiceover as well, and you find you can get a 0:24:20.130 --> 0:24:23.550 call out of live information about how far away buses. So, 0:24:23.550 --> 0:24:26.050 for example, you might have united. Two three, three draw 0:24:26.050 --> 0:24:28.750 in two minutes is seven to seven doing four minutes 0:24:28.750 --> 0:24:31.560 and then the nine three nine during eight minutes. I 0:24:31.660 --> 0:24:33.820 know it's the third bus that I need to catch. 0:24:33.940 --> 0:24:34.360 Can I think 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:35.229 you have one more for us 0:24:35.230 --> 0:24:37.209 down? There is another app and this is an app 0:24:37.210 --> 0:24:41.189 called Aara. This app is really great. I serve refrigerators. 0:24:41.230 --> 0:24:43.149 Get out of jail card. Kind of a way that 0:24:43.150 --> 0:24:47.350 you have access to some visual information from someone who's 0:24:47.350 --> 0:24:50.830 fully trained. They're sitting behind the computer in the USA 0:24:50.859 --> 0:24:52.930 so they can see your current location. And I can 0:24:52.930 --> 0:24:56.320 also see what you're saying. Of the camera so people 0:24:56.320 --> 0:24:58.810 can use this app to ask, I'm a bit disorientated. 0:24:58.820 --> 0:25:01.359 Can you show me where my nearest bus stop is 0:25:01.630 --> 0:25:04.000 or I'm in an airport and I need to work 0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:07.540 at where the check-in guides? And by simply opening the 0:25:07.540 --> 0:25:10.120 app and pressing the call button, someone's on the other line. 0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:12.220 And I can see I've used this in Sydney Airport 0:25:12.220 --> 0:25:15.730 before our agent brings up the interior map. Just, yep, 0:25:15.910 --> 0:25:18.070 keep going straight ahead. All this some signs on the left. 0:25:18.070 --> 0:25:20.530 In Japan, you find the left. There's a sign saying 0:25:20.770 --> 0:25:22.899 checking area straight ahead. Keep on going. So they can 0:25:22.900 --> 0:25:25.810 kind of give you this extra layer of visual information 0:25:25.810 --> 0:25:27.610 that in the past, you know, we just didn't have 0:25:27.609 --> 0:25:30.100 access to our which is a paid up. But also 0:25:30.100 --> 0:25:31.960 there's other options. You know, there's a free app called 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:34.480 Be My Eyes is a similar thing where you're talking 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:37.570 directly to volunteers. You also have the option of just 0:25:37.570 --> 0:25:40.720 using face time or using your smartphone camera and calling 0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:42.970 a friend and saying, Hey, you know, a bit lost. 0:25:42.970 --> 0:25:44.710 Can you tell me, is they're crossing me here? Or 0:25:44.859 --> 0:25:46.660 When is a taxi? Or can you read this document 0:25:46.660 --> 0:25:49.420 for me? So using technology and using cameras and things 0:25:49.420 --> 0:25:51.670 like that is making a huge difference. 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:54.219 Darren, thank you so much. That was so interesting and 0:25:54.220 --> 0:25:56.889 some really helpful strategies as well. Thank you for joining us. 0:25:57.100 --> 0:25:58.150 All right, guys, it's a pleasure. 0:25:58.270 --> 0:26:01.719 Well, this is just the start of the conversation about 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:05.139 staying safe inside and outside of your home. And if 0:26:05.140 --> 0:26:09.070 you want to find out more about the orientation and mobility, 0:26:09.070 --> 0:26:12.729 skills training or some of the amazing community groups that 0:26:12.730 --> 0:26:16.270 Nimoy runs. You can find that information on the Vision 0:26:16.270 --> 0:26:20.320 Australia website. Just go to Vision Australia dot org. That's 0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:23.950 Vision Australia dot org. And remember, you can also download 0:26:24.130 --> 0:26:28.090 this podcast from the Vision Australia website, this episode and 0:26:28.090 --> 0:26:32.919 previous episodes. The website also has some links to useful 0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:37.090 resources and information, including some of the apps that Darren mentioned. 0:26:37.210 --> 0:26:40.570 And next time we're going to be talking about mental health, 0:26:40.570 --> 0:26:42.969 but for now, thank you to all of our guests 0:26:42.970 --> 0:26:44.980 and thank you for joining us for the show where 0:26:44.990 --> 0:26:46.270 nothing's off limits. 0:26:51.810 --> 0:26:55.500 That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of 0:26:55.500 --> 0:27:00.470 Vision Australia and the NDIS Information Linkages Capability Building grants, 0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:03.660 learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting 0:27:03.660 --> 0:27:06.479 VOA Radio, dot org and access all there is to 0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:09.800 know about our range of client services via our website. 0:27:09.990 --> 0:27:14.280 Vision Australia dot org. We thank everyone who participated in 0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:17.879 this episode, but especially you for listening today. We rely 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:20.640 on your support, so please share this podcast with just 0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:24.450 one person today and bright announce or greet us on 0:27:24.450 --> 0:27:32.040 your preferred podcast platform. Bye for now. If this program 0:27:32.040 --> 0:27:35.640 has brought up any issues for you, please contact Lifeline 0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:40.290 on 13, 11, 14 or online at Lifeline dot org 0:27:40.290 --> 0:27:44.490 dot IU. The suicide callback service is one 300 six 0:27:44.490 --> 0:27:48.960 five nine four six seven or online at Suicide Callback 0:27:48.960 --> 0:27:54.120 Service dot org. Today you there's beyondblue 1300 double two 0:27:54.390 --> 0:27:59.040 four six three six and online and beyond blue dot org. 0:27:59.310 --> 0:27:59.940 Today you.