WEBVTT - Talking Vision 773 Week Beginning 24th of March 2025 0:00:13.070 --> 0:00:18.890 From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's 0:00:18.890 --> 0:00:20.930 your host Sam Colley. 0:00:23.240 --> 0:00:26.570 Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And 0:00:26.570 --> 0:00:29.540 for the next half hour we talk matters of blindness 0:00:29.540 --> 0:00:30.530 and low vision. 0:00:30.530 --> 0:00:34.339 If the deaf blind person is only getting half the message, 0:00:34.339 --> 0:00:36.890 they're going to have all of these problems, they're going 0:00:36.919 --> 0:00:40.580 to have misunderstandings, and they're neither going to be taken 0:00:40.580 --> 0:00:46.159 seriously nor understand important information that's being communicated to them. 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:50.990 So I think it's really important to build this recognition that, hey, 0:00:51.019 --> 0:00:54.560 you know, deaf blind people have their own ways of signing, 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.880 and if you do it correctly, suddenly they understand things 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:03.230 and they can do things that otherwise are just, you know, 0:01:03.260 --> 0:01:04.480 not happening. Well. 0:01:04.510 --> 0:01:08.980 Welcome to the program. This week we're speaking with senior 0:01:08.980 --> 0:01:14.860 lecturer of linguistics at Monash University, Louisa Willoughby, who's catching 0:01:14.860 --> 0:01:19.660 up with me to talk all about tactile Auslan and 0:01:19.660 --> 0:01:23.140 a short course that Monash will be running later this 0:01:23.140 --> 0:01:29.020 year to upskill practitioners of Auslan in Australia to better 0:01:29.020 --> 0:01:34.390 serve the needs of the deafblind community. That interview is 0:01:34.390 --> 0:01:37.930 coming up very shortly, so make sure to stick around 0:01:37.929 --> 0:01:42.130 to hear more from Louisa. And then after my chat 0:01:42.130 --> 0:01:46.419 with Louisa, we hear from Powered Media's Emma myers, who 0:01:46.420 --> 0:01:52.300 spoke with Skye Kakoschke-moore, CEO of Children and Young People 0:01:52.300 --> 0:01:56.800 with disability, about what she hopes will be included in 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.970 this year's federal budget. I hope you enjoy this week's 0:02:00.970 --> 0:02:09.630 episode of Talking Vision. Louisa Willoughby is a senior lecturer 0:02:09.630 --> 0:02:14.670 in linguistics at Monash University. Her work focuses on the 0:02:14.670 --> 0:02:20.460 intersecting areas of language and identity. Language policy and service 0:02:20.460 --> 0:02:25.740 provision for speakers of minority languages, particularly in health and 0:02:25.740 --> 0:02:31.110 education settings. She's here today to talk to me about 0:02:31.110 --> 0:02:37.110 tactile Auslan and a series of workshops and modules. Monash 0:02:37.110 --> 0:02:40.980 University will be running later this year as part of 0:02:40.980 --> 0:02:46.800 a short course to upskill Auslan interpreters to better service 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:52.230 the deafblind community. Louisa, welcome to Talking Vision. Thank you 0:02:52.230 --> 0:02:54.270 very much for your time today. 0:02:54.810 --> 0:02:55.680 Thanks, Sam. 0:02:55.740 --> 0:02:59.730 Now, today we're here to talk a little bit about 0:02:59.780 --> 0:03:05.120 tactile Auslan, as well as some accredited training that's coming 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:09.050 up in the pipeline over the next little while. But 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:13.580 before we get into the details around the training, let's 0:03:13.580 --> 0:03:19.490 jump in to the details around tactile Auslan itself. So 0:03:19.490 --> 0:03:22.280 could you give us a bit of an overview of 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.230 how tactile Auslan works? 0:03:24.260 --> 0:03:28.970 Yeah, sure. So tactile Auslan is a form of sign 0:03:28.970 --> 0:03:33.410 language used by people who are both deaf and blind, 0:03:33.410 --> 0:03:37.310 where they're putting their hands on top of the person 0:03:37.310 --> 0:03:42.740 who's signing and feeling what's being signed. But as you 0:03:42.740 --> 0:03:48.710 can imagine, that's not entirely foolproof. Sign languages like to 0:03:48.710 --> 0:03:52.460 use facial expressions a lot to tell us things, so 0:03:52.460 --> 0:03:54.860 you might furrow your brow to show that you're asking 0:03:54.860 --> 0:03:59.230 a question. Or you might have a sort of happy 0:03:59.230 --> 0:04:02.170 or a sad facial expression to show something of the 0:04:02.170 --> 0:04:06.310 emotional evaluation of what's going on. All of that stuff 0:04:06.310 --> 0:04:10.510 gets lost when you're just feeling a sign. And also 0:04:10.510 --> 0:04:13.990 sign languages like to use pointing a lot and direction 0:04:14.020 --> 0:04:17.560 a lot. So I might put someone in a signing 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.190 space and then, you know, Bob is on my left 0:04:21.190 --> 0:04:24.160 and Jill is on my right. And if I'm signing that, 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.969 I emailed Jill. I don't sign her name, I just 0:04:27.970 --> 0:04:32.770 sign in that direction. And this whole kind of working out, 0:04:32.770 --> 0:04:36.370 what's being pointed out is, of course, a daily challenge 0:04:36.370 --> 0:04:40.270 for anyone who's blind. And so things like this have 0:04:40.270 --> 0:04:44.740 to change when you're using a tactile form of Auslan, 0:04:44.740 --> 0:04:48.850 rather than what I'll just call visual Auslan, but is 0:04:48.850 --> 0:04:52.210 the sort of the normal deaf Auslan that people use. 0:04:52.570 --> 0:04:59.100 How have practitioners of tactile Auslan gone about bridging those 0:04:59.100 --> 0:05:03.060 gaps in the past, how much sort of success has 0:05:03.060 --> 0:05:08.580 there been in terms of adding those little pieces of 0:05:08.580 --> 0:05:13.560 information in other ways and adapting the language in that way? 0:05:13.590 --> 0:05:17.250 Has there been much success in that regard? 0:05:17.580 --> 0:05:21.300 Look, I think it's been very ad hoc. So most 0:05:21.300 --> 0:05:25.800 people who are tactile signers started life as deaf people 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.169 with at least some vision and sort of learnt the 0:05:28.170 --> 0:05:33.690 visual language and then through things like retinitis pigmentosa, have 0:05:33.690 --> 0:05:36.240 lost their sight over the years and have sort of 0:05:36.270 --> 0:05:40.320 moved to this tactile way of signing. And so for 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:44.730 both the deafblind people and the people supporting them, it's 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.940 often just been very ad hoc as a learning process 0:05:47.940 --> 0:05:52.830 of what works. So there's not a there hasn't been 0:05:52.830 --> 0:05:57.950 any official training in Australia about how to use tactile 0:05:57.980 --> 0:06:02.210 Auslan with deafblind people. What's just tended to happen is 0:06:02.210 --> 0:06:06.980 people have been either employed as support workers for deafblind 0:06:06.980 --> 0:06:11.060 people and learnt to work with them or for whatever reasons, 0:06:11.060 --> 0:06:14.659 have been an Auslan interpreter who's like, yeah, I'm going 0:06:14.690 --> 0:06:17.510 to give this a go. And then, you know, might 0:06:17.510 --> 0:06:21.589 build up a relationship working with and interpreting for a 0:06:21.590 --> 0:06:25.760 specific deafblind person and sort of coming up with some 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.960 strategies over the years, but really, really ad hoc in 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.680 terms of how people solve these problems. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:38.240 And following on from that, Louisa, I think there is 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:44.360 a really important topic around greater awareness of tactile Auslan. 0:06:44.390 --> 0:06:49.850 So I'm interested to get your perspective around the importance 0:06:49.850 --> 0:06:55.060 of raising awareness of language like tactile Auslan and enabling 0:06:55.060 --> 0:06:59.890 people around Australia and all the world in some respects 0:06:59.890 --> 0:07:03.339 to understand a fair bit more about it. 0:07:03.610 --> 0:07:06.430 Yeah. And look, I think it's one of these things 0:07:06.430 --> 0:07:11.860 where awareness raising is really important to know that, yeah, 0:07:11.860 --> 0:07:16.510 it is its own skill, but also so that people 0:07:16.510 --> 0:07:21.040 realise that, oh, if I'm working with a deaf blind 0:07:21.070 --> 0:07:25.270 person and I'm not doing this stuff, or I've got 0:07:25.270 --> 0:07:29.380 an interpreter who's just an Auslan interpreter but doesn't know 0:07:29.410 --> 0:07:33.670 tactile Auslan especially well that if the deaf blind person 0:07:33.670 --> 0:07:36.820 then comes out of it a bit confused or says 0:07:36.820 --> 0:07:39.100 the wrong thing or things like that, you know, we 0:07:39.130 --> 0:07:43.330 so often judge people as just, oh, this person's a 0:07:43.330 --> 0:07:46.090 bit slow, they're a bit stupid, they're not very competent. 0:07:46.090 --> 0:07:49.750 All of these things because we assume that the communication 0:07:49.770 --> 0:07:54.840 has been flawless. But of course, if the deaf blind 0:07:54.870 --> 0:07:58.470 person is only getting half the message, they're going to 0:07:58.470 --> 0:08:02.070 have all of these problems, they're going to have misunderstandings, 0:08:02.070 --> 0:08:06.900 and they're neither going to be taken seriously nor understand 0:08:06.900 --> 0:08:12.060 important information that's being communicated to them. So I think 0:08:12.090 --> 0:08:16.470 it's really important to build this recognition that, hey, you know, deaf, 0:08:16.470 --> 0:08:19.920 blind people have their own ways of signing, and if 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:24.840 you do it correctly, suddenly they understand things and they 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:30.180 can do things that otherwise are just, you know, not happening. 0:08:30.180 --> 0:08:35.790 Well, people listening out there may be thinking now and then, 0:08:36.090 --> 0:08:39.120 you know, I would really like to know a bit 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:43.019 more about Auslan. And then the jump on top of that, 0:08:43.020 --> 0:08:47.850 getting into tactile Auslan, what would you say is the 0:08:47.870 --> 0:08:53.209 biggest jump from people who have perhaps learned a spoken 0:08:53.209 --> 0:08:57.170 language as a second or third language, and then that 0:08:57.170 --> 0:09:01.250 jump between the spoken language to the sign language, like 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.790 Auslan and then tactile Auslan on top of that. What 0:09:04.790 --> 0:09:08.059 are the biggest things for people to be aware of 0:09:08.089 --> 0:09:11.270 as they jump in to, you know, learn the language 0:09:11.270 --> 0:09:15.679 and interpret for people out there in the deafblind community? 0:09:16.339 --> 0:09:19.819 Look, I think one of the things that comes up 0:09:19.819 --> 0:09:24.350 a lot with sign languages is that people, for some reason, 0:09:24.349 --> 0:09:28.729 tend to think that sign languages aren't real languages in 0:09:28.729 --> 0:09:32.270 the same way that spoken languages are. So there are 0:09:32.270 --> 0:09:35.329 lots of surveys that have been done with people who 0:09:35.329 --> 0:09:39.920 are studying sign languages at university where, you know, the 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.760 majority of students will say something like, oh, yeah, you know, 0:09:43.790 --> 0:09:46.270 sign languages are really just sort of English on the 0:09:46.270 --> 0:09:49.809 hands or something like that, where, you know, of course 0:09:49.809 --> 0:09:52.239 they're totally not. They have their own grammar, they have 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.570 their own word order, they have all their own different 0:09:55.569 --> 0:09:58.510 ways of doing things. And there are yeah, there are 0:09:58.510 --> 0:10:02.439 words in English that might have 2 or 3 different 0:10:02.439 --> 0:10:06.369 signs that are the same thing, depending on exactly what 0:10:06.370 --> 0:10:09.009 the meaning of the word is. And there are, of course, 0:10:09.010 --> 0:10:11.370 other words in English where you might have 2 or 0:10:11.370 --> 0:10:14.859 3 words in English that are just the one Auslan sign. 0:10:14.890 --> 0:10:20.319 So often it's this whole getting over this mindset that no, 0:10:20.319 --> 0:10:25.119 they are actually real languages, but then also to getting 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.900 into the fact that you have to pay attention to 0:10:28.929 --> 0:10:34.630 a whole new range of articulators. So yeah, we're used 0:10:34.630 --> 0:10:39.220 to listening carefully to words and working out that, you know, 0:10:39.459 --> 0:10:43.870 P and B are different, you know, different sounds or, 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:49.920 you know, sounds are different sounds, but we're not used 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:55.260 to necessarily paying attention that someone's got their finger extended, 0:10:55.290 --> 0:10:58.830 their index finger extended like they're pointing, and now they've 0:10:58.829 --> 0:11:01.920 just hooked that finger a little. And that that difference 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.459 between a straight out point and a hooked point might 0:11:05.459 --> 0:11:10.320 be meaningful. And we're also not necessarily used to showing 0:11:10.319 --> 0:11:15.270 grammatical markers on our faces. So as sighted people will 0:11:15.300 --> 0:11:20.040 often have expressions of surprise or happiness or something like that. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.069 But we're not used to this idea that we might 0:11:23.069 --> 0:11:27.329 always sort of furrow our brow for a question, or 0:11:27.329 --> 0:11:30.720 always smile when we say the word happy, or when 0:11:30.719 --> 0:11:34.050 we sign the word happy. So those sorts of things 0:11:34.079 --> 0:11:40.170 are an adjustment. And then for the deafblind side of things, 0:11:40.170 --> 0:11:43.670 I think people who are both sighted and hearing often 0:11:43.670 --> 0:11:46.520 have this real sort of adjustment of just what do 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.360 I need to be doing to make my signing clear? 0:11:50.359 --> 0:11:54.829 So if someone's trying to feel what I'm signing, how 0:11:54.829 --> 0:11:58.370 I need to change all of that to suddenly be 0:11:58.370 --> 0:12:02.780 a lot clearer when it's perfectly clear visually. And what 0:12:02.780 --> 0:12:06.079 do I need to include? So just like with audio 0:12:06.079 --> 0:12:09.170 description for blind people, for deaf blind people, they sort 0:12:09.199 --> 0:12:11.990 of need a sense of who's in the room, what's 0:12:11.990 --> 0:12:14.420 going on in the room? Are there people asking them 0:12:14.420 --> 0:12:17.929 with hands up, asking questions, all of that kind of stuff? 0:12:17.929 --> 0:12:22.639 And so just remembering to include that is important and 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:24.319 challenging for many people. 0:12:24.349 --> 0:12:28.519 In amongst that is the need for an increased number 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:34.700 of tactile Auslan interpreters to provide such a service like 0:12:34.699 --> 0:12:38.449 this and be able to enable people who are from 0:12:38.449 --> 0:12:43.179 the deaf blind community to communicate more openly with more 0:12:43.179 --> 0:12:48.580 people and have that bridge between conversation partners when they're 0:12:48.579 --> 0:12:54.040 trying to communicate important information to one another. So let's 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.519 talk a bit about that need for an increased number 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.410 of interpreters. 0:12:59.770 --> 0:13:04.660 Absolutely. And so at the moment, if you want an 0:13:04.689 --> 0:13:08.980 in-person interpreter or you normally need, of course, two interpreters 0:13:08.979 --> 0:13:12.459 because they'll swap every ten minutes or so, it's important 0:13:12.459 --> 0:13:16.239 with tactile signing, people need to swap very regularly because 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.999 the pressure of sort of having someone's hands on your 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.790 hands while you're signing, even if they're sort of super 0:13:21.790 --> 0:13:25.209 light and super gentle, can cause shoulder injuries if you 0:13:25.209 --> 0:13:27.999 do it for too long at a time. So to 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:33.100 get two tactile Auslan interpreters at an event in person, 0:13:33.099 --> 0:13:37.360 we're often booking two months in advance at the moment, 0:13:37.359 --> 0:13:40.639 Whereas I can rock up and say, hey, I want 0:13:40.670 --> 0:13:44.059 a sign language interpreter online and I can normally get 0:13:44.089 --> 0:13:50.419 one tomorrow. So yeah, it's a really big skill shortage 0:13:50.420 --> 0:13:53.360 and shortage of people who can and will do this 0:13:53.359 --> 0:13:58.550 work at the moment. So very important and as you say, 0:13:58.550 --> 0:14:02.929 really important for inclusion as well because, you know, deaf 0:14:02.929 --> 0:14:09.229 blind people are doubly isolated. You know, blind people can 0:14:09.260 --> 0:14:12.439 access telephones and always have been able to and have 0:14:12.439 --> 0:14:15.769 radio and various ways of connecting with each other. And 0:14:15.770 --> 0:14:20.930 Braille deaf people have these days, video phones. Deaf blind 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.619 people have often had a school experience that hasn't left 0:14:24.620 --> 0:14:28.820 them with wonderful literacy. They've often become blind late in 0:14:28.820 --> 0:14:32.330 life as well. So a number of them are not 0:14:32.330 --> 0:14:36.940 really fluent Braille readers. They can't use a video phone 0:14:36.940 --> 0:14:39.850 to sign with people. They can't use a normal phone 0:14:39.850 --> 0:14:44.170 to call with people, so they're just at huge risk 0:14:44.170 --> 0:14:47.200 of being really socially isolated. 0:14:47.410 --> 0:14:51.760 And this is where the accredited training comes in to 0:14:51.790 --> 0:14:58.600 boost the numbers of tactile Auslan interpreters around Australia. So 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.410 let's get a bit of an overview of the accredited 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.870 training for people out there. 0:15:04.900 --> 0:15:10.090 Yeah. So this is something that's very very new to Australia. 0:15:10.090 --> 0:15:12.670 And that doesn't happen in a lot of parts of 0:15:12.670 --> 0:15:15.490 the world either. So I think, you know, Norway and 0:15:15.490 --> 0:15:19.239 Sweden are two of the only places currently where people 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:25.840 are really being routinely trained as deafblind interpreters. But what 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.380 we're planning on doing is we have a four part 0:15:29.410 --> 0:15:33.759 module for the training. The first part is stuff that 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.150 a lot of people will have already done and we'll 0:15:36.150 --> 0:15:40.139 be able to get prior learning for. And that's around 0:15:40.140 --> 0:15:44.970 some of these basic introduction to deafblindness units or courses 0:15:44.970 --> 0:15:47.880 that are offered. So for example, Deafblind Victoria at the 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:53.879 moment offer a kind of introduction to Deafblindness day. So 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.550 for people who haven't already done that, we'll have some 0:15:56.550 --> 0:15:59.670 pathways for them. But many of the people coming into 0:15:59.670 --> 0:16:04.890 the course will have that basic knowledge about Deafblindness. Then 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:09.239 they'll come to us for a two day weekend workshop 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.690 of hands on training, of course, quite literally hands on, 0:16:12.690 --> 0:16:16.920 where we're working through some of these strategies and, you know, 0:16:16.950 --> 0:16:19.830 with a focus on tactile Auslan, but also looking at 0:16:19.830 --> 0:16:24.570 other ways that deafblind people sign. So for folk with 0:16:24.570 --> 0:16:29.430 Usher's syndrome, they'll often use what's sometimes called restricted visual 0:16:29.430 --> 0:16:32.360 frame signing or close signing. So where what, you're really 0:16:32.359 --> 0:16:35.090 trying to hold the hands in a very tight envelope 0:16:35.090 --> 0:16:38.749 where they can still see them. And so overview of 0:16:38.750 --> 0:16:42.290 the techniques to use with all of this. Then people 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.530 go out into the world for a month or two. 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.970 They do some jobs working as deafblind interpreters and reflect 0:16:49.970 --> 0:16:53.840 on those. They do some readings with us and some 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.619 ethics based training about some of the ethical issues in 0:16:57.620 --> 0:17:00.739 working with deafblind. And then they come back to us 0:17:00.740 --> 0:17:05.270 for a final weekend training, where we debrief around some 0:17:05.270 --> 0:17:08.390 of the stuff they've been doing, problem solve, and talk 0:17:08.390 --> 0:17:11.510 a little bit more about some of the working as 0:17:11.510 --> 0:17:14.300 a team of tactile interpreters. 0:17:14.330 --> 0:17:20.810 Let's go into the details of how and where and 0:17:20.810 --> 0:17:26.330 when the training sessions will be delivered. If you have 0:17:26.330 --> 0:17:30.790 that information. Yet, I understand it's still in some ways 0:17:30.790 --> 0:17:33.939 in the pipeline, and you might not have all the 0:17:33.940 --> 0:17:38.800 details at hand as we speak, but how can people 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.639 keep in touch? To find out more about the sessions, 0:17:42.639 --> 0:17:46.570 if they'd like to take part and skill up in 0:17:46.570 --> 0:17:48.550 such an important area? 0:17:49.149 --> 0:17:54.160 Yeah, excellent. So we're planning on running the weekend workshops 0:17:54.159 --> 0:17:57.609 in July and September, and they will this year just 0:17:57.609 --> 0:18:02.109 be in Melbourne. But we're talking about options to roll 0:18:02.109 --> 0:18:07.330 out better nationally in the future. So in order to 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.199 come to these workshops, people do need to already hold 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:17.260 a naati qualification as either an Auslan interpreter, a provisional 0:18:17.290 --> 0:18:22.149 Auslan interpreter, or an ATI deaf interpreter. And if people 0:18:22.149 --> 0:18:25.540 would like to be on the waiting list, or it's 0:18:25.540 --> 0:18:27.760 not so much a waiting list, but be added to 0:18:27.790 --> 0:18:30.630 the list of people who are told about the formal 0:18:30.629 --> 0:18:37.740 application process. They can do that just by emailing me. Louisa. Louisa. 0:18:37.770 --> 0:18:41.489 Dot Willoughby w I l l o u g h 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:47.130 b y@monash.edu, and we'll make sure that you're sent all 0:18:47.129 --> 0:18:51.149 the information you need to register your interest when the 0:18:51.149 --> 0:18:52.080 time comes. 0:18:52.109 --> 0:18:58.320 Perfect. I've been speaking today with Associate Professor Louisa Willoughby, 0:18:58.350 --> 0:19:03.149 Senior Lecturer at Monash University, here to chat to me 0:19:03.149 --> 0:19:09.570 today all about tactile Auslan and a short course featuring 0:19:09.570 --> 0:19:15.300 a series of modules and workshops run through Monash University 0:19:15.300 --> 0:19:21.389 on offer later this year for accredited Auslan interpreters to 0:19:21.419 --> 0:19:26.330 skill up in tactile Auslan. Louisa, thank you so much 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.359 for your time today. Great to catch up with you. 0:19:29.389 --> 0:19:30.470 Thank you. 0:19:35.750 --> 0:19:39.650 I'm Sam Cully and you're listening to Talking Vision. On 0:19:39.649 --> 0:19:45.350 Vision Australia Radio, associated stations of Reading Radio and the 0:19:45.350 --> 0:19:50.450 Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that conversation there 0:19:50.450 --> 0:19:54.230 with Louisa Willoughby. If you missed any part of that 0:19:54.230 --> 0:19:58.160 conversation with Louisa or you would love to hear it again. 0:19:58.159 --> 0:20:03.290 Talking vision is available on the Vision Australia Radio website. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:09.679 Simply head to VA radio.org. That's VA radio all one 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:15.619 word.org to find more episodes. You can also find Talking 0:20:15.619 --> 0:20:19.700 Vision on the podcast app of your choice or through 0:20:19.700 --> 0:20:23.990 the Vision Australia Library on the evening of Tuesday the 0:20:24.129 --> 0:20:27.879 25th of March, the federal budget. The fourth of this 0:20:27.879 --> 0:20:31.509 current government will be handed down. So what will it 0:20:31.510 --> 0:20:35.230 mean for the disability community and how will it affect 0:20:35.230 --> 0:20:39.760 their day to day lives? Powered Media's Emma myers spoke 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:46.030 with Skye Kakoschke-moore, CEO of Children and Young People with disability, 0:20:46.060 --> 0:20:49.899 about what she hopes will be included in the budget. 0:20:50.050 --> 0:20:54.940 Emma began by asking Skye to highlight what she hopes 0:20:54.940 --> 0:20:59.140 will be included in this year's budget, in terms of 0:20:59.139 --> 0:21:03.159 measures to benefit the disability community. 0:21:03.190 --> 0:21:08.650 It's cider. We made a pre-budget submission and very broadly speaking, 0:21:08.649 --> 0:21:13.629 the themes that we centred our submission on were investment 0:21:13.629 --> 0:21:17.740 in a truly inclusive education system for children and young 0:21:17.740 --> 0:21:21.670 people with disability, um, investment in a fair, safe and 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:27.480 accessible NDIS system, as well as foundational supports and all 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:32.249 supports really inside and outside of the NDIS. We're also 0:21:32.250 --> 0:21:36.630 calling on the government to address the unemployment and underemployment 0:21:36.659 --> 0:21:40.709 of young people with disability, as this is really closely 0:21:40.710 --> 0:21:44.909 linked to the significant cost of living pressures that many 0:21:44.909 --> 0:21:48.840 in the country are experiencing right now. And finally, we've 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:53.189 called for an increase in investment in individual advocacy services, 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:57.899 specifically for children and young people with disability. We know 0:21:57.899 --> 0:21:59.939 that with all of the changes that are happening to 0:21:59.970 --> 0:22:04.649 the NDIS, and the fact that foundational supports are still 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.679 a concept and not yet a reality, there's likely to 0:22:07.710 --> 0:22:11.310 be an increase in children and young people who aren't 0:22:11.310 --> 0:22:14.940 receiving or can't access the support they need. So the 0:22:14.940 --> 0:22:18.510 demand on in the demand on individual advocacy is only 0:22:18.510 --> 0:22:19.500 going to grow. 0:22:19.639 --> 0:22:22.430 And what would you like to see in the realm 0:22:22.460 --> 0:22:24.650 of foundation or support? 0:22:24.830 --> 0:22:28.730 From my conversations with children and young people and their families, 0:22:28.730 --> 0:22:32.840 we've heard about the importance of peer networks as a 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.709 form of connection, as a form of sharing information, but 0:22:36.710 --> 0:22:40.879 also as a way that self-advocacy skills are often built. Um, 0:22:40.879 --> 0:22:45.530 these peer networks, traditionally, um, some have received funding from 0:22:45.530 --> 0:22:49.369 the federal government, some may pop up quite informally, and 0:22:49.460 --> 0:22:52.189 we've had some discussions with the community about some of 0:22:52.190 --> 0:22:55.940 those initiatives that might be operating now, but don't receive 0:22:55.940 --> 0:22:59.990 any or receive very little government funding. And so when 0:22:59.990 --> 0:23:03.830 we made our submission about foundational supports, we recommended the 0:23:03.830 --> 0:23:09.019 government implement what we called a grassroots connector funding model, 0:23:09.020 --> 0:23:14.030 which would enable the government to fund larger organizations that 0:23:14.180 --> 0:23:17.600 meet the legal requirements that have the board set up 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:23.019 that understand how to manage risk funds. Those organizations who 0:23:23.020 --> 0:23:26.500 will then pass on smaller amounts of funding to those 0:23:26.500 --> 0:23:30.550 initiatives that have been initiated by the local community. So 0:23:30.550 --> 0:23:33.820 they're really driven by local demand. So it might be, 0:23:33.850 --> 0:23:37.960 you know, a drop in, um, type center arrangement, or 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:41.110 it might be a peer network or it might be, um, 0:23:41.109 --> 0:23:45.190 a website or a social media group that's really taken off. 0:23:45.190 --> 0:23:49.810 Those organizations, um, or the people running them often can't 0:23:49.810 --> 0:23:52.240 apply for government funding on their own because they don't 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:54.369 have those things, like a proper board set up and 0:23:54.369 --> 0:23:57.580 risk management frameworks in place. So we think that this 0:23:57.580 --> 0:24:00.040 grassroots connector model would be a way that the government 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.550 could fund those locally driven initiatives in a way that's 0:24:03.550 --> 0:24:06.639 supported by larger organizations who can help with things like 0:24:06.639 --> 0:24:08.260 compliance and reporting. 0:24:08.830 --> 0:24:14.439 And so what are you hoping to see on budget night? 0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:16.200 I like to think of myself as a bit of 0:24:16.200 --> 0:24:20.280 an eternal optimist. And so if I put my hope 0:24:20.399 --> 0:24:23.490 that on, what I'm hoping to see is recognition from 0:24:23.490 --> 0:24:27.929 the government that the NDA is here to stay, that 0:24:27.930 --> 0:24:31.050 we're going to have a national disability Insurance scheme that 0:24:31.050 --> 0:24:34.350 is funded in order to meet the support needs of 0:24:34.350 --> 0:24:38.400 children and young people with disability. Um, I'm really hoping 0:24:38.430 --> 0:24:41.430 to see some stronger signals from the government about how 0:24:41.430 --> 0:24:44.790 much Commonwealth funding is going to be delivered to support 0:24:44.790 --> 0:24:49.619 foundational supports, and potentially even some more detail about what 0:24:49.619 --> 0:24:53.189 those sorts of supports or services will be funded through 0:24:53.220 --> 0:24:57.090 foundational supports. That's still a big question mark at the moment. Um, 0:24:57.090 --> 0:25:00.060 I would love to see some funding in there, um, 0:25:00.060 --> 0:25:05.220 towards more inclusion in schools. So this could look like, um, 0:25:05.310 --> 0:25:10.470 an increased funding from the Commonwealth to do something like 0:25:10.470 --> 0:25:13.530 a national roadmap for inclusive education, which was one of 0:25:13.530 --> 0:25:18.179 the recommendations from the Disability Royal Commission. Um, and one 0:25:18.180 --> 0:25:21.000 other thing that site has called for is the establishment 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:26.010 of a national oversight body that would ensure that education 0:25:26.010 --> 0:25:31.770 providers at all levels are meeting their inclusion obligations to students. Um, 0:25:31.770 --> 0:25:34.889 it would also be great to see, um, increased funding 0:25:34.889 --> 0:25:37.739 for individual advocacy. As I said earlier, we're just seeing 0:25:37.740 --> 0:25:40.409 that there's a huge amount of unmet demand currently. And 0:25:40.409 --> 0:25:44.280 that's going that's going to grow. Um, we would also 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:47.520 love to see an increase to the rate of the 0:25:47.520 --> 0:25:51.420 disability support pension. Like, I know from our conversations with 0:25:51.419 --> 0:25:55.619 young people and also talking to organisations that do individual 0:25:55.619 --> 0:25:59.310 advocacy with young people, um, getting access to the DSP 0:25:59.340 --> 0:26:03.300 is a huge issue. Um, so at least seeing the 0:26:03.300 --> 0:26:05.999 rate of that increase would, would be a step in 0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:07.139 the right direction. 0:26:13.149 --> 0:26:16.240 And that's all the time we have for today. You've 0:26:16.270 --> 0:26:20.470 been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision 0:26:20.500 --> 0:26:24.669 Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the 0:26:24.669 --> 0:26:28.869 show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you. 0:26:28.869 --> 0:26:32.139 So please get in touch any time on our email 0:26:32.139 --> 0:26:37.450 at Talking Vision. At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all 0:26:37.450 --> 0:26:42.250 one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's 0:26:42.250 --> 0:26:44.649 Sam Coley saying bye for now. 0:26:47.619 --> 0:26:51.820 You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during 0:26:51.820 --> 0:27:03.699 business hours on 1300 847 406. That's 1300 847 486 or by visiting Vision australia.org. 0:27:03.700 --> 0:27:06.190 That's Vision australia.org.