S1: From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's
S1: your host, Sam Coley.
S2: Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And
S2: for the next half hour we talk matters of blindness
S2: and low vision.
S3: It was only when I started walking from the train
S3: to work, realizing why I was so scared in that
S3: walk all the time, and it was a bit scary
S3: because I couldn't work out. People would suddenly jump in
S3: front of me because I had a really good case
S3: of tunnel vision at that stage, and I thought they
S3: were jumping in front of me. They weren't. I just
S3: couldn't see them, didn't know they were there and it
S3: was all types of issues.
S2: Welcome to the program. This week we speak with Noel Gatti,
S2: who shares her experiences with Vision Loss after being diagnosed
S2: at 42, but also her work as a digital access
S2: advocate and her involvement on various podcasts and radio programs
S2: such as Kintsugi Heroes right here on Vision Australia Radio.
S2: That interview is coming up right around the corner, so
S2: make sure to stick around. And then after you hear
S2: from Noel, I speak with Associate Professor Matthew Butler from
S2: the faculty of it at Monash Uni, who's here to
S2: tell us all about a PhD scholarship in assistive technology.
S2: I hope you'll enjoy this week's episode of Talking Vision.
S2: Our first guest on Talking Vision this week is a
S2: passionate digital access advocate. She also has lived experience with
S2: vision loss, having been diagnosed later in life. But she's
S2: also telling her story on Kintsugi heroes right here on
S2: Vision Australia Radio. Her name is Noelle Gatti and she
S2: joins me now. Noelle, welcome to the show. Thank you
S2: very much for your time.
S3: Oh, Sam, it's lovely to actually meet you.
S2: And you too. Now, firstly, Noelle, why don't we get
S2: a little bit of an introduction from you? Tell us
S2: a little bit about yourself and your work.
S3: Yes, Sam, I'm in my late 50s now. I lost
S3: all functional vision about two and a half years ago,
S3: but I've got a deteriorating eye condition that was diagnosed
S3: when I was 42. And I'm a mum of three
S3: wonderful sons and very, very proud of my son. I'm
S3: a daughter. I'm a sister to my cousin, I'm a friend.
S3: And I'm also advocating for digital accessibility throughout the community
S3: because I see such a big, important need of it.
S2: Tell us a little bit about your digital accessibility work
S2: that you do.
S3: Yeah. Look, I volunteer with a company called Digital Access Solutions,
S3: assistive technology. We all have disability, so I see shapes.
S3: The director, Mike Muscat, these light and shade. And then
S3: the other director who's Alan Parker, he's dyslexic. And so
S3: Alan flies all over the world. He's dispute resolution expert
S3: and all types of things. And the three of us
S3: looked at our ages and realised in this day and age,
S3: there is no reason why people that use assistive technology
S3: in any form, and I'm talking people with cognitive brain impairments, dyslexia,
S3: autism spectrum, physical problems, anything. Auditory processing a lot. Why
S3: there's this gap where they can't access the information. The
S3: technical methods are doing it. Are there the guidelines the
S3: standards are there. Just people don't know about it. So
S3: we decided we'd do something. And Alan's closer to retirement
S3: than me. I was laugh and say, yeah, I've got
S3: about nine years to retirement and let's see what we
S3: can do. Let's educate. And it's we're educating small to
S3: medium businesses predominantly, but we'll talk to anyone. And the
S3: reason for that is most people with disability deal with
S3: small to medium sized businesses every day. You shop, know
S3: your small IGA, your cafe, your hairdresser, your anything and
S3: everything and they do. The NDIS service providers. Their small
S3: business and not one of these people seem to understand
S3: how digital accessibility gives independence. It enhances the communication.
S2: It certainly does. Noel. And speaking of communication, we will
S2: get back to the podcast that you're also involved with
S2: and the radio program Kintsugi heroes will come back to
S2: that later. And your involvement there. But I want to
S2: just go back and have a bit of a chat
S2: about your vision loss from age 42 and the feelings
S2: and how you overcame that, and how you managed life
S2: after the change and adapted your life in that way.
S3: Well, it was diagnosed at 42, but it's a genetic
S3: condition I've got. And, you know, I grew up right
S3: out bush on a cattle property and mum and dad,
S3: once they realised it was nine when I first got
S3: glasses and they thought it was just short sighted. And,
S3: you know, my sight kept deteriorating a bit, but they
S3: thought it was just, you know, it's just what happened,
S3: you short sighted. And then when I was 42, actually,
S3: I'd been driving that day. I'd been to work. I,
S3: you know, my kids were still teenagers, late primary, early
S3: high school. And I got a new set of glasses,
S3: went to the optometrist, said, oh, your glasses are a
S3: bit of a problem here. And she's also one of
S3: my very good friends. And I walked out legally blind,
S3: you know, space of 45 minutes. And, you know, I
S3: remember my husband actually drove us home, and I remember
S3: being pretty shell shocked in one way, but at the
S3: same time, it was mum hat firmly on. By the
S3: time we were halfway, only ten minutes back to the
S3: house and thinking okay, food, homework, but find out how
S3: the boys went, get the lunches ready for tomorrow, you know,
S3: get everything ready for the next day. And then I was,
S3: you know, I was back into being the mum mode.
S3: And I'm really proud. Two of my sons are on
S3: the autistic spectrum. So it was one of them had
S3: much higher needs than the other, but it was getting
S3: them there. And it was only like when I started
S3: walking from the train to work, realizing why I was
S3: so scared in that walk all the time. And it
S3: was a bit scary because I couldn't work out. People
S3: would suddenly jump in front of me because I had
S3: a really good case of tunnel vision at that stage,
S3: and I thought they were jumping in front of me.
S3: They weren't. I just couldn't see them, didn't know they
S3: were there. And it was all types of issues. And
S3: because being brought up at Bush, my dad was a
S3: World War Two veteran. We were really taught to be resilient,
S3: taught to think outside the square and just get on
S3: with it. So. I just had to. You know, it's
S3: so important that my boys were successful as much as
S3: I could assist them to be successful, but they had
S3: to learn all the things that teenagers have to learn,
S3: and that was important. And so I think our hardest part,
S3: it was only sort of later on when I'd go
S3: to read and I think, oh, I can't read anymore,
S3: and I love reading, or I used to do a
S3: lot of handicrafts, and that started having to stop and
S3: sewing and things. And then when I had to stop
S3: work because I couldn't literally do the work because my
S3: sight wasn't good enough. And that's when it really that
S3: was the hardest, because I had to sit because I'm
S3: very light sensitive with this as well. So I had
S3: to I basically was home for three months, sitting in
S3: a dark room while the headaches dealt settle down. And
S3: I think so. You know, the boys by that stage,
S3: they were independent and it was really, oh my gosh,
S3: how am I going to do this now? And that's
S3: when Mark Muscat, the other director of Digital Access Solutions,
S3: sort of said, stop being an idiot, gave me a
S3: bit of a talking to, but was it easy? At
S3: times it wasn't, but I didn't focus on it. I,
S3: you know, I was lucky. One of my good friends
S3: at the time, her brother in law was legally blind.
S3: So he got on the phone to me and I,
S3: I met some wonderful people, and I've done things that
S3: I would not have done if I hadn't had this issue.
S3: You know, I'd have probably still been out doing the garden,
S3: working full time, driving the car, doing the things I
S3: would have done. But because my life has changed so drastically,
S3: I'm doing things I would never have thought of doing
S3: and I'm having a ball doing it. Not that easy, no.
S3: Was it emotionally quite hard? Oh yeah. I've had a
S3: few counselling sessions talking my way through this, not being
S3: able to read and not being able to do my
S3: handicraft and not being able to do all these other things.
S3: And I am a hern. So I drove, I learnt
S3: to drive when I was about eight, so at 42
S3: having to hand my driving licence in and I did
S3: have a fair few speeding tickets, I was a bit
S3: of a hoon and I still love cars and I'll
S3: sit there and quite happily talk cars because I absolutely
S3: love them. You know, realistically, you've just got to get
S3: on with it, you know? Certainly. Is it easy?
S2: No, no. And there's a lot there that people don't
S2: really talk about. You know, you don't hear about so
S2: much the light sensitivity and those things you don't hear about, oh,
S2: I can't, you know, read my favourite book as much.
S2: But have you gotten into audiobooks and those sorts of
S2: things or. Um, I do, yeah. No, they're great aren't they?
S3: I flog audiobooks.
S2: Oh, they're.
S3: Fantastic that I used to love reading because I used
S3: to love a lot of Australiana. There's a really great
S3: author called Iris Portis. He wrote cattlemen, Few Others, and
S3: one of my favourite books, which is a book called Brigalow.
S3: And you cannot get that on audio. It just doesn't exist.
S3: The books that I really love. There was another Australian
S3: author called Eve Timms that wrote in the 20s and
S3: 30s and 40s. Their books are not on audio, and
S3: you'll never get them on audio because they're books that
S3: have gone out of print, and they're old books and,
S3: you know, those really old, some of those old style books.
S3: But I read all types of genre anyway, so I've
S3: just adapted because what choice do you have? But, you know, today,
S3: like watching TV, I used to love history and I
S3: still love history. And you know, I love my footy.
S3: But NRL is not the same. Watching it as listening
S3: to it, you know, I miss watching it because I
S3: used to get quite involved in the state of origin
S3: and all of those things, and I can't do it.
S3: And that freedom to be able to just hop in
S3: the car and go to the shop, I missed that.
S3: It is one of the hardest things, even to find
S3: different ingredients when you're cooking new ingredients, and that doesn't
S3: happen anymore, you have to adjust. You have to accept
S3: because it's, you know, people get old anyway. And I
S3: laugh and say, now, well, I'm just going to beat
S3: you to it. You know, you guys are going to
S3: have to learn. I've already done all that. I'm not
S3: going to be as hard on me when things change
S3: as they get older, because I've already lost my sight.
S3: It's just a different way of thinking. And you really
S3: do have to change your thinking because you've got two
S3: options sit in the corner and cry or laugh and
S3: crying hurts everyone. Laughing and getting on with it helps people.
S3: Which is the better way. Yeah.
S2: And you've talked a bit about your work and how
S2: you got involved there and, you know, the passion for
S2: digital accessibility that you do have. And that's also, of course,
S2: led on to the podcast that you've been doing and
S2: interviews and being involved with various programs and podcasts such
S2: as Kintsugi Heroes, but also the podcast addressing accessibility needs.
S2: So tell us a little bit about your work there
S2: behind the microphone.
S3: Yeah. So I've been in a few podcasts as guests,
S3: but the one that I run is called the Digital
S3: Access Show. And thank you to the wonderful Aldwin Oulton
S3: who helped us come up with the name. And it's
S3: all about digital accessibility, but it's looking. Looking at it
S3: from every point of view I can find, whether it's
S3: the small business trying to say, well, we actually can't
S3: afford to do it, we don't have that profit margin
S3: to do it to. Okay, well, what's the quick, simple
S3: way that you can do something small that costs nothing?
S3: And so we've had different businesses on we talk to
S3: people that have digital accessibility issues, like the wonderful Elise
S3: Carter Edwards who talked about her hearing impairment and just
S3: the issues she has going to the shop, because it
S3: is a huge issue with the tannoy. And she says
S3: shopping is just all she hears the sound and it's
S3: like she's been bombarded with it or like someone with
S3: a vision impairment living in regional Queensland. Well, Jean Ross,
S3: she has some. I mean, she had to stay at
S3: a stand at a train station for three hours in
S3: the dark because she had to get the train to
S3: the next town to go home. No one there. She
S3: can't read the signs, so she knew she just had
S3: to stay there, you know? And that would have been
S3: a little bit scary for her. Or pretty scary, actually.
S3: But you know what I mean. There's all these people
S3: out there, like there's a guy called Patrick Dillon, and
S3: he became a quadriplegic in his late 30s, I think
S3: mid late 30s, and he now works full time there.
S3: We've talked to disability employment specialists. We've talked to web
S3: developers about just how easy it is to incorporate digital
S3: accessibility designer web design people. Shannon Towle You know, we've
S3: talked to Alan Parker about dyslexia and his story, and
S3: it's an amazing story about how he's just lived his life.
S3: And Alan Stilgoe, I think he's early 70s. He's fantastic.
S3: He doesn't let anything stop him. Mark Muscott that just said, no, well,
S3: get on with life. And so we're talking to all
S3: these people we've got coming up like an NDIS service
S3: consultant about how he works with NDIS service providers and
S3: talking about his concepts and his thoughts about digital accessibility.
S3: Because the more different thoughts we can get, the more
S3: that people see that actually, it's not really hard to
S3: do and it should be done. The more we're going
S3: to enhance everyone's communication.
S2: And how did you get involved with people like Ian
S2: Westmorland and the Kintsugi Heroes crew and all of those people?
S3: It was interesting actually. I go to business networking meetings
S3: to talk about digital accessibility, and I met a guy
S3: there called Peter Ria. I think that was on one
S3: of the online ones, because I do a few online ones,
S3: and we got to talking and, you know, about different things.
S3: And he said, oh, I've got to introduce you to
S3: this bloke. And I said, oh yeah, I'll have a
S3: chat to anyone. And that's how I met Ian through
S3: that Ian that runs the Katsuki heroes. And then Ian
S3: started telling me his story and I was actually fascinated.
S3: It was probably my third career. Well, it is actually.
S3: But people change careers midstream. The reasons why they do it,
S3: you know, the passion they have for it is it
S3: just points out how people have different passions at different
S3: stages of their lives and how it directs their lives.
S3: And talking to Ian was really, really interesting. And then
S3: he asked me to be on Katsuji heroes, and I said,
S3: what's that? And he explained it and I said, yeah, okay,
S3: I'll do it. And I just thought, you know what
S3: he's done in getting Katsuki Heroes off the ground and running?
S3: I think it's phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal, because it just points
S3: out that you can do anything if you want to.
S2: And we're looking forward to hearing you on Kintsugi Heroes.
S2: But in the meantime, Narelle, what's the best way for
S2: people to head along and listen to your program, the
S2: Digital Access Show?
S3: It's on Amazon, Spotify, the Apple Podcast. It can be
S3: found on any of the major podcast channels that you use.
S3: Just look for us, it's the digital digital access, a C, E,
S3: s show, and it is really about getting as many
S3: points of view across as possible, because if we can,
S3: it's all about education and educating from different points of view.
S3: Even down to there was a lady called Amber Adcock
S3: who's got a son that's on the autistic spectrum, level
S3: three non-verbal, and how she communicates with him and the
S3: issues and where she sees things going. And yeah, fantastic.
S3: Just the people I'm meeting are wonderful.
S2: I've been speaking today with Noel all about her journey
S2: with vision loss, how she overcame various barriers, but also
S2: the fantastic work she's currently doing in the digital access space. Noel,
S2: thank you so much for your time today. It's a
S2: pleasure to have a chat with you and look forward
S2: to hearing you on Kintsugi Heroes in the not too
S2: distant future.
S3: Well. Thanks, Sam. Look, it really has been a pleasure
S3: to meet you. Thank you so much.
S2: I'm Sam Kelly and you're listening to Talking Vision on
S2: Vision Australia Radio, associated stations of the Reading Radio Network,
S2: and the Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that
S2: interview there with Noel Gatti. If you missed any part
S2: of that chat with Noel or you'd love to listen
S2: to it again. Talking vision is available on the Vision
S2: Australia Radio website at VA radio.org. That's VA radio.org. Or
S2: you can find the program on the podcast app of
S2: your choice or through the Vision Australia library. And now
S2: coming up next, my chat with Associate Professor Matthew Butler.
S2: Our next guest is an associate professor at the Faculty
S2: of Information Technology at Monash University. But he's also involved
S2: in the Monash Assistive Technology and Society Centre, which is
S2: offering a PhD scholarship in assistive technology and disability. His
S2: name is Matthew Butler, and he joins me now. Matt,
S2: welcome back to Talking Vision. Great to have you.
S4: Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sam. It's great
S4: to chat with you again.
S2: Now we're talking about the PhD scholarship in assistive technology
S2: and disability today, Matt, as part of the Matt centre
S2: where the candidates will be working. So tell us a
S2: little bit about the Matt centre.
S4: Yeah very happy to. So the Matt centre. So Matt's
S4: stands for Monash Assistive Technology and Society Centre. So it's
S4: a fairly recently formed centre. We're about 18 months old
S4: now I guess located at Monash University. And I guess
S4: the idea behind the centre is to bring together academics
S4: and PhD students and researchers of all kinds across the
S4: whole of Monash, who have some kind of interest or
S4: focus on assistive technology and disability support quite broadly. So
S4: we're not just technologists, a good number of us are,
S4: but we also try to look at some of the
S4: social aspects of it, the business side of things from
S4: an education perspective as well. So we've got around about
S4: 100 academics across the university who are all doing work
S4: in this area. And what is exciting about that is
S4: it lets us think about assistive technology in a, in
S4: a much more broader sense.
S2: And following on from that, Matt, tell us a bit
S2: about the PhD scholarship itself. What are some details that
S2: you'd love to let people know about as an overview
S2: in general? Yeah, for.
S4: Sure. So we're very fortunate to be able to offer
S4: a PhD scholarship in or related to, I guess, assistive
S4: technology and disabilities. So for those of you who are
S4: interested in PhD, so at Monash, it's about a three
S4: and a half year process, has a little bit of coursework,
S4: but it's mostly focusing on a research project and why
S4: we're really excited about this is we're seeing this as
S4: an opportunity to get some people in, and candidates who
S4: have a really strong interest in assistive technology. We're really
S4: encouraging people who identify as having some form of disability
S4: to apply, because any PhD topic that we do in
S4: this space, and we're actually quite flexible in what the
S4: nature of the project is, we really want to come
S4: from the community and be in support of the community.
S4: So it is about working with some of our academics
S4: in the centre. And yeah, working on a research project
S4: for the next three and a half years or so,
S4: funded with, I guess, a kind of like a living
S4: allowance type aspect to it.
S2: And there's quite a few themes that the Matt Centre
S2: is exploring and sort of things that prospective candidates can
S2: look forward to. And I understand there is roughly four
S2: of those. So could you tell us a little bit
S2: about them?
S4: Yeah for sure. So I think the different themes are
S4: reflective of our centre more broadly. And the reason we're
S4: putting together or putting forward a number of themes is
S4: to allow a bit of discussion with potential candidates for
S4: what areas of interest they have and what expertise that
S4: they bring. So some of the themes span from very
S4: technology driven. So working very closely with new and emerging
S4: technologies to support real world needs for people with disability.
S4: So that could be things like conversational agents like Siri
S4: and Alexa, could be wearable technologies and the like. We
S4: then actually move from being very projects, being potentially very
S4: technology focused and development through to the more social side
S4: of technology. So reflecting on the role of technology and
S4: its use, considering the adoption of technology or barriers to access.
S4: So coming at it from more of a social perspective,
S4: one of the other themes is around supporting participation in Stem.
S4: So representation in Stem is often quite low. And so
S4: we're looking at research that can look at trying to
S4: identify and address the barriers to participation in science, technology,
S4: engineering and medicine. And then the fourth theme is around
S4: community and workplace participation. So considering again the role of
S4: technology that can support cultural activities, sporting activities, other types
S4: of community activities or technologies that can help address barriers
S4: that might currently restrict employment. So hopefully your listeners can
S4: hear that just because we have assistive technology in the title,
S4: don't be scared if you don't come from a very
S4: technical background. We want to consider technology both at a
S4: very technical level but also at a very social level.
S2: And of course, you are looking to get people involved
S2: who have lived experience of disabilities, but there are a
S2: lot of other people who are eligible to take part.
S2: So if people out there are interested and thinking, oh,
S2: I'd love to, you know, get involved in this opportunity,
S2: who is eligible to take part in the scholarship?
S4: So that's a really great question. So the opportunity is
S4: focused on Australian citizens, people who have permanent residency in
S4: Australia or and also New Zealand citizens. While as you mentioned,
S4: we really are strongly encouraging people who identify as having
S4: a disability to apply, ultimately, anyone who kind of fits
S4: the Australian criteria can apply. Why we do. You know,
S4: I guess we're strongly encouraging the people who identify as
S4: having a disability, or certainly people who are familiar with
S4: that context is we do really want to ensure that
S4: any PhD project that we work on does come from
S4: a place of genuine need and a place of community.
S4: So that's where we've put a bit of that focus.
S4: But certainly anybody who does have an interest or has
S4: some prior work that they've done in anything more broadly
S4: related to assistive technology, is very much encouraged to reach
S4: out and get in touch.
S2: Okay. And speaking of getting in touch, Matt, how can
S2: people get in touch with you or the MIT center
S2: to possibly apply and or find out a little bit
S2: more about the scholarship? What's the best way to do that?
S4: Yeah, look, the best way is probably just to get
S4: directly in touch with me, I think is a start.
S4: So email is is usually my best point of contact. Uh,
S4: I'm kind of in and out of the office quite
S4: a bit. So my email address is Matthew with two
S4: T's dot Butler butler@monash.edu if you drop me an email
S4: if you've heard this I can certainly send you a
S4: bit more information. We can discuss a little bit about
S4: your background topics that you might be interested in. And look,
S4: applying for a PhD is a bit of that kind
S4: of discussion. So sometimes a PhD is a very fixed
S4: project that you might come on to here. We're very
S4: open to exploring the different potential projects that are a
S4: candidate might take on.
S2: And finally, the closing date for the scholarship applications is
S2: the 3rd of July. Now is that still the case?
S4: No. So that is that is still the case. We
S4: tend to look. So PhD applications are usually often not
S4: fixed by a particular kind of hard deadline I guess
S4: we've got this date so that we can consider the
S4: different applicants and who might be most suitable. So if
S4: people can aim for that. But I would say if
S4: you do come across this just that little bit too late,
S4: it's certainly worth reaching out because there still could be
S4: other opportunities related to doing a PhD in this space.
S2: Okay, that's fantastic news. I've been speaking today with Matthew
S2: Butler from the Mat Centre at Monash University, chatting to
S2: me all about the centre and the upcoming applications for
S2: the PhD scholarship in assistive technology. Matt, thank you so
S2: much for your time today. It was a pleasure to
S2: catch up with you again and chat all about the scholarship.
S4: And it was great to chat with you, Sam, and
S4: as always, we really appreciate the support we get from
S4: your end.
S2: And that's all the time we have for today. You've
S2: been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision
S2: Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the
S2: show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you.
S2: So please get in touch any time on our email
S2: at Talking Vision. At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all
S2: one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's
S2: Sam Colly saying bye for now.
S1: You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us any time
S1: during business hours on 1300 847 406. That's one 308 474106 or
S1: by visiting Vision Australia. Org that's Vision australia.org.