S1: Nothing's off limits. It's off limits. Bringing together experts and
S1: people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love
S1: to avoid but absolutely need to talk about made with
S1: the support of efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages
S1: and capacity building grants, including grants.
S2: Hello and welcome to the series where nothing's off limits.
S2: My name is Polly, and together with my co-host Tess,
S2: we're continuing to delve into those subjects which might usually
S2: be considered off limits, discussing them openly and honestly and
S2: through the specific lens of blindness innovation.
S3: And as always, you can download this fabulous podcast via
S3: the Vision Australia website. Just go to Vision Australia dot
S3: org and type. Nothing's off limits into the search engine,
S3: and you'll be directed to our web page where you
S3: can subscribe to make sure you don't miss any episodes
S3: or if you'd like, you can tune in Vision Australia
S3: radio and this is our last episode. We're so sad
S3: and we were so hoping that we could all be
S3: in the studio together for the for the final time.
S3: But unfortunately with lockdown, we're all doing a fabulous recording
S3: session from home, so we do apologise if the quality
S3: of the podcast isn't fantastic. We hope you're really going
S3: to love it because we're really excited about it now.
S3: We probably
S2: absolutely. That's right. And yes, I'm talking to you from
S2: my wardrobe, so I enjoyed the ambient sound effects. And
S2: so in this episode, we're talking about identity, community and disclosure,
S2: and the way that we identify ourselves can impact the
S2: way that we're viewed in our communities. And for people
S2: who are blind or have low vision accepting that they
S2: have a disability and disclosing my disability to others can
S2: be challenging. So we've lined up a number of guests
S2: who have lived experience in this area while thinking about
S2: the way we are viewed by others. It's important to
S2: think about how we view ourselves, and so we asked
S2: you how you would describe yourself using just three words,
S2: and we got some really interesting answers.
S1: Nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly and Polly. How
S1: would you describe yourself? In three words cold,
S4: dark and handsome.
S1: Kind there and fees are fair and fierce. That's a
S1: good
S4: mix. How would I describe myself in three? Would I
S4: think I'm very calm?
S3: I'm resourceful and I'm resilient,
S4: fun, happy, cruisy,
S1: fun, energetic and sport obsessed.
S4: That took me quite a while to think about, but
S4: I think I'd describe myself as loyal,
S1: determined and curious, enthusiastic, passionate about technology.
S5: Me, in three words. Radio presenter, twin Derby and London
S5: are in exile, although I think that comes to about
S5: seven words. Sorry about that.
S1: You're listening to a Vision Australia Radio podcast. Nothing's off
S1: limits with Tess and Polly.
S3: It's time to welcome our first guest for this episode.
S3: Now we often find ourselves subject to labelling from others,
S3: whether it's family, friends, people in the community, so we're
S3: going to ask our guests to introduce themselves. Jason Weiter
S3: is possibly a familiar voice to some of our listeners. Jason,
S3: thank you for joining us. And how would you introduce yourself?
S4: Hi, Tess. Hopefully, you know what? That's probably how I
S4: do generally introduce myself to people with a good hello
S4: and a smile on my face. Look, when I think
S4: about it all depends on the city and the situation
S4: that Tom brought into. I guess in most instances, instances
S4: I should say I do introduce myself. Having a vision
S4: impairment will go up to fashion is usually the first
S4: thing I would say is that I'm not actually here drunk,
S4: although I look at it, I am blind, so I
S4: put a bit of a comical spin on it. And
S4: that usually gets a conversation going. A bit of an icebreaker,
S4: and I'm sure you get addicted to a lot of
S4: blind drunk jokes as well along the way. I was
S4: absolutely looking Typekit and, you know, the only one looking
S4: like a fool, and you don't even have to be
S4: drug to do it. No hangovers in the morning.
S2: Jason, do you identify as having a disability? I mean,
S2: is that how you would describe it?
S4: Yeah, I do. Look, I'm and I'm quite open about it.
S4: I mean, it is the truth. I think, you know,
S4: the definition of a disability is something that either is
S4: a condition that limits one's senses or activities or is
S4: a disadvantage and puts them at a disadvantage now. My
S4: eyesight having very low eyesight. That's definitely a loss of
S4: made sense. And that does limit, you know what I
S4: can do in the community, and it put a disadvantage
S4: to people that are fully sighted. Is it true for
S4: my eyes? Like I would say, I have a disability,
S4: and it's just what it is. I mean, you should
S4: see my applying golf, for instance, to my mates, and
S4: I'd ask them to point me in the right direction
S4: of the whole thing to put me the opposite just
S4: to score. I think that's a disadvantage.
S2: But oh, you just need new friends. I'm not sure.
S4: Maybe that, maybe that. But look, we will all jokes aside.
S4: I don't see a need to hide the fact that
S4: I have a disability. Yeah.
S2: Leading on from that, how important is it for you
S2: that those around you accept that you have a disability?
S2: So it sounds like you have a really good relationship
S2: with your friends and that you're already comfortable about it?
S2: And you know, that's supportive, but also, you know, making
S2: fun sometimes. So is that acceptance a really important part?
S4: I'm going to be honest here, and I don't want
S4: to sound discourteous to others when I say this, you know,
S4: it's not really that important. It would be nice if
S4: everyone could accept the fact that, yes, I have a disability,
S4: this is it, and that Jayson Tatum, who he is.
S4: I'm not going to let it stop me doing the
S4: things I want to do.
S2: So it sounds like actually the really important thing for
S2: you is your own acceptance of having a disability.
S4: Definitely. I'd say that is probably the most important step,
S4: a far more important than what others think and should be.
S4: The world's not going to stop because I have no idea.
S4: So why should I stop doing the things that I
S4: might do? It probably has it. I asked different things,
S4: for instance, disability, bodybuilding and playing blind tennis. Now these
S4: are things I would never have got into in the past,
S4: and these are probably things that I wouldn't even have
S4: a competitive edge on in the past. But now having
S4: low eyesight and accepting that and going out and taking
S4: on these activities has allowed me to become good at something.
S4: I also think that or accepting my disability, it prevents
S4: me from doing reckless things from time to time. So
S4: I don't want to go out and take that car
S4: sun dry up and then blamed on of our vehicles
S4: on the road and maybe pedestrians.
S2: That's a really interesting point. And and it sounds like
S2: you really have taken ownership of your disability and that's
S2: something that you haven't struggled with. Or has that been
S2: a process for you?
S4: The moment I hear myself was deteriorating, what was happening,
S4: it was just like, Well, let's move on. Know, I
S4: think it's something I've grown up with in the past.
S4: I've had a medical conditions, probably since day one, so
S4: I've had to adapt. I guess I learnt at an
S4: early age how to adapt to things and then say, Well, look,
S4: I'm not going to be able to do this. Let's
S4: find something else more realistic and let's proceed. So that
S4: is something that I wanted to do. I have not
S4: had my heart set on it. I would make modifications
S4: to look at ways I could do that and then
S4: allowing people to see that I can still do it.
S4: That's doing well can really accept me for that anyway.
S4: So their experiences like I you, Jason, and he's what
S4: he's doing. We accept him for that. And how do
S4: you
S2: think more broadly, disability kind of sits within the community?
S2: Do you think that there's a stigma around discussing disability,
S2: around having a disability in the wider community?
S4: I think that's sort of one of the things that
S4: sits on a scale. So you'll have those that will say, Look,
S4: disability is what it is. It's fine, it's part of life.
S4: Then you'll have a disability and their disability is that
S4: dirty work and it's something we don't want to discuss.
S4: We want to put it aside, and I think there's
S4: a lot of reasons to come to this. I'm not
S4: a sociologist or anything like that, so I don't know
S4: the ins and outs of it all. Well, what I
S4: see in the community is that more often than not,
S4: it's not the actual person with a disability, and it's
S4: not the person who's not closely associated with disability. It's
S4: the people in the middle, the family members or carers
S4: or support workers who want to sort of say that, well,
S4: don't call them disabled. They say that any part of
S4: everyday community, they require the same as everybody else, and
S4: that can go to wage when it does encourage people
S4: who have a disability can do things. But at the
S4: same time, it can be harmful because if we put
S4: somebody in a situation where you're saying you're quite able
S4: to do exactly what someone who's got a disability can
S4: do and they can put their life in danger. Should
S4: we really be spreading that? So we were saying that
S4: and saying, OK, well, let's just disregard the term disability,
S4: especially if we don't, what do we call? Those are
S4: people that are going to be disadvantaged or they're going
S4: to have trouble, is an actor. And he would say
S4: he coaches people and he has these terms that goes
S4: on to say that you all have a disability and
S4: the Disabilities Act, in my eyes, that sort of something
S4: that stands out to me. I guess it's one of
S4: those things that reaches out to say, Well, we have
S4: a disability that doesn't define me.
S2: I wondered if you had any advice you can share
S2: about that disclosure component. So whether it's disclosing to people
S2: that you just meeting when you're out and about or
S2: whether it's in a more formal environment like, say, starting
S2: a new job or even going on a date? Have
S2: you got any advice about how you can disclose your
S2: disability in a way that, as you said, makes you
S2: feel that you have the agency over it?
S4: Take control over that one? I think it comes down
S4: to a type of disability, just like some of the
S4: some of the most openly obvious. You don't need to
S4: disclose it because it disability itself got disclosed to everybody
S4: around you. Tarantino for missing a limb or you need
S4: to get around a white cane. But then when there
S4: are those that are listen, I suppose it comes down
S4: to the person how confident they are to disclose that
S4: do they need to disclose it? And if he don't
S4: disclose what? One of the reasons why she disclosed, because
S4: in my opinion is the truth is always best. I
S4: think it's always important to disclose it upfront, first and foremost,
S4: because it gets that side of things at the way.
S4: The advice I gave is just to be open, said,
S4: When you introduce it, tell them upfront. First and foremost,
S4: they will probably respect you more for a honest and
S4: you will probably get people that say, Well, okay, is
S4: a person just not capable as someone else at end
S4: of the day that she can affect people as well?
S2: Jason, thank you so much. As if we were on
S2: our first program. So it's so lovely to have you
S2: bookending the series, and I love your advice about, you know,
S2: maybe if you're confident enough going on the front foot
S2: and that's your way of kind of taking ownership of
S2: how you want to represent yourself, that's as ever fascinating
S2: and really helpful.
S4: Always a pleasure. Polly, scientists, thank you so much for
S4: having me on.
S1: You're listening to nothing's off limits, where Tess and Polly did,
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S2: We now have a panel of two guests, and both
S2: Courtney McKay and Adelina Holloway will be familiar voices to
S2: some of our listeners. They're both here to talk about
S2: their experiences around identity and disclosure. Thank you both so
S2: much for coming back. How would you two introduce yourselves?
S2: Maybe starting with you, Courtney.
S6: Yeah, OK. So in this context, which is semi professional
S6: and where blindness and low vision is a topic of conversation,
S6: I might say that I'm a psychologist with lived experience
S6: of blindness. I've got 15 years of experience working in
S6: not for profits and local government, and I'm currently managing
S6: Vision Australia's children and Young People team in Queensland.
S2: Adelina, how would you introduce yourself?
S4: Usually, my guide dog Tilly does a bit of an
S4: introduction in that I am vision impaired, so she and
S4: people usually look at her, look at me, look at her,
S4: look at me and kind of think, is she or
S4: isn't she? Because I don't present as vision impaired except
S4: that I have her? I'll get asked a question straight up,
S4: Is she mine? You disclose that point? Yes, she's mine.
S4: And yes, I have low vision and I, but I
S4: still can see. I can see you and I could
S4: see my surrounds, and that usually relaxes the person. And
S4: then I will also say that, you know, I'm a
S4: middle aged mom of a couple of teenagers and fierce
S4: advocate for different, not less. And and, you know, I'm
S4: a kind of fairly confident, outspoken middle aged female who's
S4: become more and more a fierce advocate for people with disability.
S4: So how big a part of your identity is your disability?
S4: You know what, it hadn't been until about three years
S4: ago when I had a kind of or have had
S4: a marriage breakdown, and it caused a lot of stress
S4: that caused me a lot of vision loss and quite
S4: a considerable amount of vision loss. And I really had
S4: to realise then that I couldn't hide from this anymore.
S4: It's around about the same time I got the dog,
S4: so I was a real pretender. I would pretend I
S4: was sighted, not disclose to many at all and still
S4: try and be as excited as I possibly could be.
S4: So I never identified really until about three years ago. Now,
S4: to answer your question, I probably identify all of the time.
S6: Yeah, it's definitely a big part of my life. Being
S6: blind sort of dictates how I do everything, how I move,
S6: how I communicate. It's right at the forefront of how
S6: I operate. It's not necessarily always at the forefront of
S6: my mind, though. I just get on and do things.
S6: But it's definitely the reason why I'm doing those things
S6: in ways that differ from everyone around me.
S4: I think that makes a lot of sense. I think
S4: your disability can really barriers to how much a part
S4: of your identity is, so it's wonderful to get to
S4: slightly different perspectives and how
S2: much is acceptance. And this is something we talked about
S2: with Jason as well. How much is your own acceptance
S2: of your disability? A key factor? Courtney, how about you?
S6: Yeah. So we've talked about grief in one of the
S6: earlier episodes. Bargaining and denial are natural parts or natural
S6: states associated with grief. A little bit like olina said,
S6: you're entitled to your denial. You're entitled to try and
S6: work around the disability as you're adjusting to it. But
S6: resistance definitely burns a lot of energy, and at some
S6: point I have come to the understanding that that energy
S6: is better used on working towards what's good and possible
S6: for me and the people I love. So getting on
S6: good terms with reality is an important daily practice and
S6: I try to engage in.
S2: If you are struggling with that, what are some of
S2: the kinds of things that you can do to become
S2: more accepting of your disability?
S6: Among the most effective things that I've done to become
S6: more accepting is to rub shoulders with other people with
S6: disabilities and people that I admire because of their strong
S6: identification as somebody with a disability, their pride in who
S6: they are and learn from them. That's really accelerated some
S6: of my growth as a person and my ability to
S6: be out in the world representing my community in a
S6: way that feels
S4: comfortable for me and you, Adelina me trying to hide
S4: and cover up and pretend was exhausting and absolutely exhausting,
S4: and I just didn't want to do it anymore. And
S4: I realized when I started to work back with Mission
S4: Australia and work in the NDIS space, and I was
S4: privileged to have a role where I would stand up
S4: in front of people and tell them how supports could
S4: change their lives. And I could do that from a
S4: place of lived experience. So I realised that, no, I
S4: didn't want to stand there and tell people what I
S4: what I could say and what I could do, but
S4: what I couldn't do and how I could do it
S4: with support. So that's when I sort of started why
S4: I put my advocacy have had on and really, you know,
S4: now that I'm almost privileged to be in this position
S4: now because I can change people's lives so by my
S4: lived experience and how I can educate them on how
S4: they can live a full life because often people in
S4: such a. A bad place, and I now use my
S4: voice to be part way, change that for them and
S4: show them that, Hey, you know what? It's possible, it's
S4: possible to still be very empowered, especially as a woman.
S4: I speak a lot with women to be empowered as
S4: a woman, and you can still be a beautiful and
S4: desirable and well dressed and wear those heeled boots in
S4: that dress and we have a guide dog in your head.
S4: You know, that's that's my passion, and that's what I try.
S4: So that has really helped me come into my own
S4: as someone with vision loss. Absolutely.
S2: I'm just really interested about, I guess, the change that's
S2: come in around NDIS, where you have to talk about
S2: the things that you're not able to do in order
S2: for them to be the understanding about what support you need.
S2: How much do you think that's changed the dynamic of
S2: how you think about yourself?
S4: We have to now teach people how to speak the
S4: language of the NDIS, and it's really hard for someone
S4: to sit there and say, for instance, they ridiculously worded
S4: some of these questions like, you know, there's a self-care section,
S4: can you dress yourself? And everyone wants to say, yes,
S4: of course I can dress myself. We have to teach
S4: them how to say no. Yes, I can do it,
S4: but I need assistance. In my case, yes, I can
S4: dress myself, but I need help choosing color. I need
S4: help putting makeup on in that then comes on top
S4: of that. I need an occupational therapist. I need perhaps
S4: someone to show me how to put makeup on. Is
S4: a vision impaired woman. I need better lighting in my bathroom.
S4: I need my magnification, so we need to change the
S4: way people are thinking. So instead of just saying Yes,
S4: I can do this myself, yes, I could do so,
S4: but I need help.
S2: That's fascinating. Courtney, have you found any, I guess, changes
S2: about how you feel about yourself or how you present
S2: yourself going through the NDIS process?
S6: It's pretty common that when you are long term vision
S6: impaired or you've had a disability of any kind for
S6: a long time, you've become really good at work arounds
S6: and everything that you do has been adjusted. You're using
S6: tools using strategies that the average person on the street
S6: couldn't even imagine. But because they've become everyday to you,
S6: you don't necessarily know how to articulate them, to break
S6: them down into tiny little chunks and feed them to
S6: somebody who has no experience of your disability. But that
S6: is what you have to do. You have to be
S6: able to articulate all of those work around. So you
S6: can say, Well, yes, I can do this thing that
S6: I require x y z in order to be able
S6: to do that above and beyond what the average person does.
S6: So for me to lead an ordinary life, I have
S6: all of these adaptations, some of which will require funding
S6: for me to be able to continue Adelina.
S4: You mentioned before the importance of emphasizing being different instead
S4: of saying, Listen, can you tell us a little bit
S4: about why that's important? Yeah, absolutely. So you know, in
S4: a nutshell, it's I try to, you know, empower people
S4: with that thought that you're not less than anyone else
S4: because you have a disability. You just do things differently.
S4: You know, we we can do anything that anyone else
S4: can within our limits of having low vision. But we
S4: just as Courtney said, before we just do it, we
S4: adapt the way we do it. So, you know, we
S4: considered a computer and we do our job, but we
S4: need assistive technology to do that. You know, I can
S4: I can walk to work and commute to my workplace,
S4: but I need my dog beside me to help me
S4: to do that. It's just those little tweaks we have
S4: in life to now enable us to to do things differently.
S4: But we are certainly no less than anyone else
S2: on, Hey, how do you negotiate those boundaries around helping
S2: people to understand a disability? What's not kind of taking
S2: on the responsibility of being everyone's teachable moment? I know
S2: that's something we've kind of touched on before, but that's
S2: a really tough thing to do.
S6: Yeah. And I kind of running a bit of a
S6: cost benefit analysis when I bump into people. So I'm
S6: looking at whether or not they have the capacity to
S6: learn if they're deeply invested in a particular way of
S6: seeing things and that gives them a sense of power.
S6: Then I know that it's probably not going to be
S6: productive to push, you know, I come across a lot
S6: of people that are just not that great at perceiving
S6: and integrating new information generally. Sometimes it's time limits, so
S6: it might only be a passing exchange. I will do
S6: things differently then, as opposed to if we have a
S6: bit more time to explore, and I'm also thinking about
S6: my emotional reserves. So if I'm already depleted, then it
S6: might not be worth trying to educate somebody when I'm
S6: feeling like that versus when I have the energy to
S6: do it. If it's service, I'll try to work with
S6: a person directly the service provider. But if they're combative
S6: and I sense they want to dominate me, then I'll
S6: send the feedback up the line, hopefully to somebody who's
S6: a little bit more reasonable. So it's about balancing my capacity,
S6: their capacity and the impact on my community. Oh, that's
S2: fantastic. A fantastic kind of methodology to use.
S4: Finally, Adelaide, Matt and Courtney, what are some steps that
S4: people could take to make it easier to disclose because
S4: we know that disclosing can be very challenging? Adelina, would
S4: you like to? Yeah, look, I. I think that something
S4: I've learnt in disclosure is using it as an opportunity
S4: to educate as well. So when I disclose or have
S4: done in the past, sure, I've said I've got low vision,
S4: but I've just explained what that what that what that
S4: looks like for me. And I let you know what
S4: I can see. You know, I can see your face,
S4: I can see you standing in front of me. I
S4: can tell that you're wearing a dark color, but I
S4: probably can't see beyond that. You know, just give me
S4: a little bit of a context of what I can see.
S4: And just to give them an understanding. And it makes
S4: it when I do that, it tends to make them
S4: a little bit more comfortable. OK, then I can look
S4: her in the eye and I know she's going to
S4: make eye contact with me to some degree. Or it
S4: also helps if I'm out and about, especially in dimly
S4: lit situations. If I disclose before I go into the
S4: venue to someone who may not doesn't know me very
S4: well or just met. You know, it's just having the
S4: confidence to be able to explain to people what, what,
S4: what you can see and how they can help you
S4: out a bunch of friends. I was in Byron Bay
S4: once and one of my friends pulled me back from
S4: not stepping out front of the car. This before I
S4: had my dog and he screamed. I mean, he was very,
S4: very mad because I've known him since university and he
S4: said to me, Adalind, we just need to know what
S4: you can and can't see, so we know how to
S4: support you. So very nice work. I mean, just so,
S4: you know, stop being so bloody independent and tell us
S4: how otherwise you're going to get killed, you know? So
S4: and that was it. That was by then they kind
S4: of did an intervention with me that night and sort
S4: of said, You know, we we need to know you're
S4: obviously not the woman you were at university. Clearly, you
S4: can't see what you used to be able to see.
S4: So we need to know now so we know how
S4: to support you. And then it just takes the pressure
S4: off us as well. And I never looked at it
S4: like that before. I've had to really think about how
S4: it affects the other person and how to fix those
S4: around me.
S6: Yeah, I think when people acquire vision loss for the
S6: first time or they're new to disability generally, that there's
S6: a real aversion to joining the community and identifying as
S6: somebody who's one of many with a disability. But one
S6: of the benefits, I guess, of being part of our
S6: community is that you get to review a range of approaches,
S6: what other people have done before, and you can choose
S6: what things might look like for you. And that includes
S6: in relation to how you disclose your disability. I would
S6: recommend that people think about different situations because it will vary,
S6: as we've talked about already today. And I also think
S6: people need to be gentle with themselves because you'll be
S6: learning about how to do this well for yourself, for
S6: the rest of your life, and you'll choose and change
S6: your mind over and over and over again. That is
S6: a
S4: wonderful note to end on Adelina. Courtney, thank you so
S4: much for being here and sharing your lived experience with
S4: this is just being such a privilege chatting to you
S4: and wonderful to
S6: be here and congratulations on a great series.
S4: Guys, thank you for having me and have a be
S4: a part of it. I've really enjoyed it and I
S4: hope it helps lots of people out there. I really do.
S4: Well done, guys.
S2: Thank you both so much and Jason too. And as ever,
S2: this is just the start of the conversation about identity,
S2: community and disclosure. And you can visit the Vision Australia
S2: website for some useful resources and information, including an article
S2: with some tips about how you can disclose your disability
S2: to employees.
S4: We've just finished our last episode, Tony. I know I
S4: don't know what to think about this, but we could
S4: not have done it without some very special people. I
S4: have the great honour of first and foremost, thanking our
S4: wonderful collection of guests. We I look, I'm sure that
S4: people would love to listen to Polly and I just
S4: chattering white. We certainly do.
S2: Shortest, I'm less sure. But yes,
S4: for those who don't feel like listening to us, just
S4: chatting away, our guests have brought something just fantastic for podcast.
S4: Thank you to everyone who participated in the box. Pops
S4: just added some fantastic color. Thank you to our listeners,
S4: our wonderful listeners. I mean, what would be the point
S4: of creating a podcast that you to listen to us
S4: and tell us where we're going right or going wrong?
S4: And finally, and I speak on behalf of Polly and myself.
S4: It is most important and so much so very important
S4: to thank our wonderful producer Jace. You were huge that
S4: day because he had just been a wonderful source of
S4: support and expertise. He holds us in line cases in
S4: line when when Polly and I are having too much
S4: fun and
S2: easy, not an easy task.
S4: So it's really not and really more than anything else
S4: we could not have done without him. So thank you, guys.
S1: Thanks, guys. It's the lived experience of our guests that
S1: really pulled it together. I really appreciate everyone's
S4: efforts, completely stressed
S2: and remembered. This episode and early episodes of Nothing's Off
S2: Limits can be downloaded from the Vision Australia website. Just
S2: go to Vision Australia dot org and type. Nothing's off
S2: limits into the search engine and you'll find our web
S2: page and you can catch up with all 10 episodes,
S2: as well as resources that go along with them. And
S2: we'd love to. Your feedback about the series of what
S2: you liked, what you didn't like and what you suggest
S2: should there be a second series? You can reach us
S2: on nothing's off limits at Vision Australia dot org that's
S2: nothing's off limits at Vision Australia. Org No apostrophe upon
S2: apologies there for the grammar experts. But we do hope
S2: to be with you again soon. Until then, thank you
S2: so much for joining us for the show where nothing's
S2: off limits.
S1: That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of
S1: Vision Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant.
S1: Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio,
S1: dot org and access all there is to know about
S1: our range of client services via our website. Vision Australia
S1: dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode,
S1: but especially you for listening today. We rely on your support,
S1: so please share this podcast with just one person today
S1: and brighten our day or write us on your preferred
S1: podcast platform. Bye for now.