WEBVTT - Nothings off Limits - Identity, Community and Disclosure (Ep10) 0:00:03.970 --> 0:00:08.200 Nothing's off limits. It's off limits. Bringing together experts and 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:11.500 people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love 0:00:11.500 --> 0:00:15.010 to avoid but absolutely need to talk about made with 0:00:15.010 --> 0:00:19.240 the support of efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.060 and capacity building grants, including grants. 0:00:25.540 --> 0:00:29.780 Hello and welcome to the series where nothing's off limits. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.949 My name is Polly, and together with my co-host Tess, 0:00:32.950 --> 0:00:36.370 we're continuing to delve into those subjects which might usually 0:00:36.370 --> 0:00:40.059 be considered off limits, discussing them openly and honestly and 0:00:40.060 --> 0:00:42.519 through the specific lens of blindness innovation. 0:00:42.610 --> 0:00:46.570 And as always, you can download this fabulous podcast via 0:00:46.570 --> 0:00:50.770 the Vision Australia website. Just go to Vision Australia dot 0:00:50.770 --> 0:00:54.100 org and type. Nothing's off limits into the search engine, 0:00:54.100 --> 0:00:56.350 and you'll be directed to our web page where you 0:00:56.350 --> 0:00:59.200 can subscribe to make sure you don't miss any episodes 0:00:59.210 --> 0:01:02.020 or if you'd like, you can tune in Vision Australia 0:01:02.020 --> 0:01:06.069 radio and this is our last episode. We're so sad 0:01:06.700 --> 0:01:08.680 and we were so hoping that we could all be 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.350 in the studio together for the for the final time. 0:01:11.350 --> 0:01:15.100 But unfortunately with lockdown, we're all doing a fabulous recording 0:01:15.100 --> 0:01:18.850 session from home, so we do apologise if the quality 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.240 of the podcast isn't fantastic. We hope you're really going 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:23.860 to love it because we're really excited about it now. 0:01:23.870 --> 0:01:24.270 We probably 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:26.980 absolutely. That's right. And yes, I'm talking to you from 0:01:26.980 --> 0:01:31.209 my wardrobe, so I enjoyed the ambient sound effects. And 0:01:31.209 --> 0:01:36.640 so in this episode, we're talking about identity, community and disclosure, 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.400 and the way that we identify ourselves can impact the 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.039 way that we're viewed in our communities. And for people 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.950 who are blind or have low vision accepting that they 0:01:44.950 --> 0:01:48.550 have a disability and disclosing my disability to others can 0:01:48.550 --> 0:01:50.890 be challenging. So we've lined up a number of guests 0:01:50.890 --> 0:01:54.250 who have lived experience in this area while thinking about 0:01:54.250 --> 0:01:56.890 the way we are viewed by others. It's important to 0:01:56.890 --> 0:01:59.920 think about how we view ourselves, and so we asked 0:01:59.920 --> 0:02:03.720 you how you would describe yourself using just three words, 0:02:03.730 --> 0:02:05.919 and we got some really interesting answers. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:15.610 Nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly and Polly. How 0:02:15.610 --> 0:02:18.280 would you describe yourself? In three words cold, 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:19.239 dark and handsome. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.950 Kind there and fees are fair and fierce. That's a 0:02:23.950 --> 0:02:24.160 good 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:28.060 mix. How would I describe myself in three? Would I 0:02:28.060 --> 0:02:29.470 think I'm very calm? 0:02:29.740 --> 0:02:33.040 I'm resourceful and I'm resilient, 0:02:33.490 --> 0:02:35.950 fun, happy, cruisy, 0:02:36.310 --> 0:02:38.560 fun, energetic and sport obsessed. 0:02:38.889 --> 0:02:40.480 That took me quite a while to think about, but 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:42.549 I think I'd describe myself as loyal, 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:48.490 determined and curious, enthusiastic, passionate about technology. 0:02:49.030 --> 0:02:54.339 Me, in three words. Radio presenter, twin Derby and London 0:02:54.340 --> 0:02:56.470 are in exile, although I think that comes to about 0:02:56.470 --> 0:02:57.970 seven words. Sorry about that. 0:03:00.300 --> 0:03:03.930 You're listening to a Vision Australia Radio podcast. Nothing's off 0:03:03.930 --> 0:03:05.639 limits with Tess and Polly. 0:03:06.270 --> 0:03:09.720 It's time to welcome our first guest for this episode. 0:03:09.750 --> 0:03:14.669 Now we often find ourselves subject to labelling from others, 0:03:14.669 --> 0:03:17.820 whether it's family, friends, people in the community, so we're 0:03:17.820 --> 0:03:21.750 going to ask our guests to introduce themselves. Jason Weiter 0:03:21.750 --> 0:03:25.139 is possibly a familiar voice to some of our listeners. Jason, 0:03:25.139 --> 0:03:28.320 thank you for joining us. And how would you introduce yourself? 0:03:28.430 --> 0:03:31.320 Hi, Tess. Hopefully, you know what? That's probably how I 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.500 do generally introduce myself to people with a good hello 0:03:34.500 --> 0:03:36.600 and a smile on my face. Look, when I think 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.320 about it all depends on the city and the situation 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:44.570 that Tom brought into. I guess in most instances, instances 0:03:44.580 --> 0:03:47.640 I should say I do introduce myself. Having a vision 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.580 impairment will go up to fashion is usually the first 0:03:50.580 --> 0:03:54.150 thing I would say is that I'm not actually here drunk, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.150 although I look at it, I am blind, so I 0:03:57.150 --> 0:03:59.280 put a bit of a comical spin on it. And 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:01.940 that usually gets a conversation going. A bit of an icebreaker, 0:04:01.950 --> 0:04:03.750 and I'm sure you get addicted to a lot of 0:04:03.750 --> 0:04:06.360 blind drunk jokes as well along the way. I was 0:04:07.500 --> 0:04:11.010 absolutely looking Typekit and, you know, the only one looking 0:04:11.010 --> 0:04:12.390 like a fool, and you don't even have to be 0:04:12.390 --> 0:04:15.210 drug to do it. No hangovers in the morning. 0:04:16.260 --> 0:04:20.100 Jason, do you identify as having a disability? I mean, 0:04:20.100 --> 0:04:21.599 is that how you would describe it? 0:04:21.660 --> 0:04:24.070 Yeah, I do. Look, I'm and I'm quite open about it. 0:04:24.089 --> 0:04:26.750 I mean, it is the truth. I think, you know, 0:04:27.089 --> 0:04:30.210 the definition of a disability is something that either is 0:04:30.210 --> 0:04:33.840 a condition that limits one's senses or activities or is 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.450 a disadvantage and puts them at a disadvantage now. My 0:04:36.630 --> 0:04:40.580 eyesight having very low eyesight. That's definitely a loss of 0:04:40.589 --> 0:04:44.220 made sense. And that does limit, you know what I 0:04:44.220 --> 0:04:47.940 can do in the community, and it put a disadvantage 0:04:47.940 --> 0:04:50.160 to people that are fully sighted. Is it true for 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:52.560 my eyes? Like I would say, I have a disability, 0:04:52.740 --> 0:04:55.140 and it's just what it is. I mean, you should 0:04:55.140 --> 0:04:57.750 see my applying golf, for instance, to my mates, and 0:04:57.770 --> 0:04:59.490 I'd ask them to point me in the right direction 0:04:59.490 --> 0:05:01.890 of the whole thing to put me the opposite just 0:05:01.890 --> 0:05:03.330 to score. I think that's a disadvantage. 0:05:04.830 --> 0:05:07.219 But oh, you just need new friends. I'm not sure. 0:05:08.790 --> 0:05:11.520 Maybe that, maybe that. But look, we will all jokes aside. 0:05:11.710 --> 0:05:14.700 I don't see a need to hide the fact that 0:05:14.700 --> 0:05:16.080 I have a disability. Yeah. 0:05:16.110 --> 0:05:18.720 Leading on from that, how important is it for you 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.440 that those around you accept that you have a disability? 0:05:21.450 --> 0:05:23.580 So it sounds like you have a really good relationship 0:05:23.580 --> 0:05:26.160 with your friends and that you're already comfortable about it? 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.710 And you know, that's supportive, but also, you know, making 0:05:28.710 --> 0:05:32.280 fun sometimes. So is that acceptance a really important part? 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.770 I'm going to be honest here, and I don't want 0:05:34.770 --> 0:05:37.490 to sound discourteous to others when I say this, you know, 0:05:37.529 --> 0:05:40.320 it's not really that important. It would be nice if 0:05:40.500 --> 0:05:42.719 everyone could accept the fact that, yes, I have a disability, 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.940 this is it, and that Jayson Tatum, who he is. 0:05:45.210 --> 0:05:46.440 I'm not going to let it stop me doing the 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:47.099 things I want to do. 0:05:47.190 --> 0:05:49.469 So it sounds like actually the really important thing for 0:05:49.470 --> 0:05:52.349 you is your own acceptance of having a disability. 0:05:52.410 --> 0:05:55.650 Definitely. I'd say that is probably the most important step, 0:05:55.650 --> 0:05:59.130 a far more important than what others think and should be. 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.790 The world's not going to stop because I have no idea. 0:06:01.830 --> 0:06:03.890 So why should I stop doing the things that I 0:06:04.020 --> 0:06:06.870 might do? It probably has it. I asked different things, 0:06:07.260 --> 0:06:11.160 for instance, disability, bodybuilding and playing blind tennis. Now these 0:06:11.170 --> 0:06:14.190 are things I would never have got into in the past, 0:06:14.190 --> 0:06:15.900 and these are probably things that I wouldn't even have 0:06:15.900 --> 0:06:18.690 a competitive edge on in the past. But now having 0:06:18.690 --> 0:06:21.000 low eyesight and accepting that and going out and taking 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.280 on these activities has allowed me to become good at something. 0:06:24.300 --> 0:06:27.300 I also think that or accepting my disability, it prevents 0:06:27.300 --> 0:06:30.090 me from doing reckless things from time to time. So 0:06:30.300 --> 0:06:32.300 I don't want to go out and take that car 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.490 sun dry up and then blamed on of our vehicles 0:06:35.490 --> 0:06:36.870 on the road and maybe pedestrians. 0:06:36.990 --> 0:06:39.750 That's a really interesting point. And and it sounds like 0:06:39.750 --> 0:06:42.150 you really have taken ownership of your disability and that's 0:06:42.150 --> 0:06:45.419 something that you haven't struggled with. Or has that been 0:06:45.420 --> 0:06:46.260 a process for you? 0:06:46.410 --> 0:06:49.260 The moment I hear myself was deteriorating, what was happening, 0:06:49.260 --> 0:06:50.970 it was just like, Well, let's move on. Know, I 0:06:51.270 --> 0:06:53.310 think it's something I've grown up with in the past. 0:06:53.310 --> 0:06:56.370 I've had a medical conditions, probably since day one, so 0:06:56.370 --> 0:06:58.860 I've had to adapt. I guess I learnt at an 0:06:58.860 --> 0:07:02.099 early age how to adapt to things and then say, Well, look, 0:07:02.100 --> 0:07:03.990 I'm not going to be able to do this. Let's 0:07:03.990 --> 0:07:07.470 find something else more realistic and let's proceed. So that 0:07:07.650 --> 0:07:09.630 is something that I wanted to do. I have not 0:07:09.630 --> 0:07:12.060 had my heart set on it. I would make modifications 0:07:12.060 --> 0:07:14.880 to look at ways I could do that and then 0:07:14.940 --> 0:07:17.760 allowing people to see that I can still do it. 0:07:18.030 --> 0:07:20.220 That's doing well can really accept me for that anyway. 0:07:20.230 --> 0:07:22.260 So their experiences like I you, Jason, and he's what 0:07:22.260 --> 0:07:24.720 he's doing. We accept him for that. And how do 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:24.810 you 0:07:24.810 --> 0:07:28.820 think more broadly, disability kind of sits within the community? 0:07:28.830 --> 0:07:32.790 Do you think that there's a stigma around discussing disability, 0:07:32.790 --> 0:07:35.370 around having a disability in the wider community? 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.250 I think that's sort of one of the things that 0:07:38.250 --> 0:07:41.490 sits on a scale. So you'll have those that will say, Look, 0:07:41.490 --> 0:07:45.330 disability is what it is. It's fine, it's part of life. 0:07:45.330 --> 0:07:48.660 Then you'll have a disability and their disability is that 0:07:48.660 --> 0:07:51.270 dirty work and it's something we don't want to discuss. 0:07:51.270 --> 0:07:53.250 We want to put it aside, and I think there's 0:07:53.250 --> 0:07:55.830 a lot of reasons to come to this. I'm not 0:07:55.830 --> 0:07:58.260 a sociologist or anything like that, so I don't know 0:07:58.350 --> 0:08:00.490 the ins and outs of it all. Well, what I 0:08:00.490 --> 0:08:02.830 see in the community is that more often than not, 0:08:02.830 --> 0:08:05.380 it's not the actual person with a disability, and it's 0:08:05.380 --> 0:08:08.860 not the person who's not closely associated with disability. It's 0:08:08.860 --> 0:08:12.640 the people in the middle, the family members or carers 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.540 or support workers who want to sort of say that, well, 0:08:16.750 --> 0:08:20.380 don't call them disabled. They say that any part of 0:08:20.380 --> 0:08:23.980 everyday community, they require the same as everybody else, and 0:08:24.190 --> 0:08:26.350 that can go to wage when it does encourage people 0:08:26.350 --> 0:08:28.630 who have a disability can do things. But at the 0:08:28.630 --> 0:08:31.240 same time, it can be harmful because if we put 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.970 somebody in a situation where you're saying you're quite able 0:08:33.970 --> 0:08:36.429 to do exactly what someone who's got a disability can 0:08:36.429 --> 0:08:39.700 do and they can put their life in danger. Should 0:08:39.700 --> 0:08:41.920 we really be spreading that? So we were saying that 0:08:41.929 --> 0:08:45.730 and saying, OK, well, let's just disregard the term disability, 0:08:45.730 --> 0:08:48.910 especially if we don't, what do we call? Those are 0:08:48.970 --> 0:08:51.189 people that are going to be disadvantaged or they're going 0:08:51.190 --> 0:08:53.680 to have trouble, is an actor. And he would say 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:57.520 he coaches people and he has these terms that goes 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.309 on to say that you all have a disability and 0:09:00.309 --> 0:09:02.740 the Disabilities Act, in my eyes, that sort of something 0:09:02.740 --> 0:09:06.010 that stands out to me. I guess it's one of 0:09:06.010 --> 0:09:08.650 those things that reaches out to say, Well, we have 0:09:08.650 --> 0:09:10.449 a disability that doesn't define me. 0:09:10.630 --> 0:09:12.850 I wondered if you had any advice you can share 0:09:12.970 --> 0:09:16.600 about that disclosure component. So whether it's disclosing to people 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.060 that you just meeting when you're out and about or 0:09:19.059 --> 0:09:22.420 whether it's in a more formal environment like, say, starting 0:09:22.420 --> 0:09:24.820 a new job or even going on a date? Have 0:09:24.820 --> 0:09:27.490 you got any advice about how you can disclose your 0:09:27.490 --> 0:09:30.010 disability in a way that, as you said, makes you 0:09:30.010 --> 0:09:31.719 feel that you have the agency over it? 0:09:31.750 --> 0:09:33.860 Take control over that one? I think it comes down 0:09:33.870 --> 0:09:35.860 to a type of disability, just like some of the 0:09:35.860 --> 0:09:39.010 some of the most openly obvious. You don't need to 0:09:39.010 --> 0:09:41.500 disclose it because it disability itself got disclosed to everybody 0:09:41.500 --> 0:09:45.010 around you. Tarantino for missing a limb or you need 0:09:45.010 --> 0:09:47.380 to get around a white cane. But then when there 0:09:47.380 --> 0:09:50.319 are those that are listen, I suppose it comes down 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.920 to the person how confident they are to disclose that 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.470 do they need to disclose it? And if he don't 0:09:56.500 --> 0:09:59.980 disclose what? One of the reasons why she disclosed, because 0:09:59.980 --> 0:10:02.650 in my opinion is the truth is always best. I 0:10:02.650 --> 0:10:05.980 think it's always important to disclose it upfront, first and foremost, 0:10:06.070 --> 0:10:07.959 because it gets that side of things at the way. 0:10:08.050 --> 0:10:10.420 The advice I gave is just to be open, said, 0:10:10.420 --> 0:10:13.349 When you introduce it, tell them upfront. First and foremost, 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.080 they will probably respect you more for a honest and 0:10:16.270 --> 0:10:18.550 you will probably get people that say, Well, okay, is 0:10:18.550 --> 0:10:21.970 a person just not capable as someone else at end 0:10:21.970 --> 0:10:24.130 of the day that she can affect people as well? 0:10:24.490 --> 0:10:28.390 Jason, thank you so much. As if we were on 0:10:28.390 --> 0:10:30.510 our first program. So it's so lovely to have you 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.569 bookending the series, and I love your advice about, you know, 0:10:34.570 --> 0:10:37.060 maybe if you're confident enough going on the front foot 0:10:37.059 --> 0:10:39.929 and that's your way of kind of taking ownership of 0:10:39.970 --> 0:10:43.510 how you want to represent yourself, that's as ever fascinating 0:10:43.510 --> 0:10:44.530 and really helpful. 0:10:44.590 --> 0:10:47.020 Always a pleasure. Polly, scientists, thank you so much for 0:10:47.020 --> 0:10:47.439 having me on. 0:10:49.670 --> 0:10:53.239 You're listening to nothing's off limits, where Tess and Polly did, 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.599 you know, Vision Australia has produced a range of stand 0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:00.200 up for your rights guides to support you to understand 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:04.640 and exercise your rights. For more information visit Vision Australia 0:11:04.700 --> 0:11:09.730 dot org or call one 800 eight four seven four 0:11:09.740 --> 0:11:16.100 double six. Vision Australia Blindness Low Vision Opportunity. How would 0:11:16.100 --> 0:11:18.440 you like to support the blind community, those with low 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.859 vision or a print disability whilst promoting your business at 0:11:21.860 --> 0:11:22.800 the same time? 0:11:22.820 --> 0:11:23.510 You can. 0:11:23.510 --> 0:11:26.900 By sponsoring Vision Australia Radio Hour packages are tailored to 0:11:26.900 --> 0:11:30.050 your needs. Promote your products or services in this area 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:34.250 or right across our network in Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Albury 0:11:34.250 --> 0:11:35.870 and Regional Victoria. 0:11:35.929 --> 0:11:36.950 You'll be surprised 0:11:36.950 --> 0:11:40.459 how affordable community radio is. Tell us how we can 0:11:40.460 --> 0:11:42.069 help you visit via 0:11:42.110 --> 0:11:44.929 radio dot org and click on the sponsorship link for 0:11:44.929 --> 0:11:45.740 more info. 0:11:47.990 --> 0:11:51.770 We now have a panel of two guests, and both 0:11:51.770 --> 0:11:55.580 Courtney McKay and Adelina Holloway will be familiar voices to 0:11:55.580 --> 0:11:58.310 some of our listeners. They're both here to talk about 0:11:58.309 --> 0:12:02.810 their experiences around identity and disclosure. Thank you both so 0:12:02.809 --> 0:12:05.510 much for coming back. How would you two introduce yourselves? 0:12:05.510 --> 0:12:07.100 Maybe starting with you, Courtney. 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:12.530 Yeah, OK. So in this context, which is semi professional 0:12:12.530 --> 0:12:16.160 and where blindness and low vision is a topic of conversation, 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.850 I might say that I'm a psychologist with lived experience 0:12:19.850 --> 0:12:23.300 of blindness. I've got 15 years of experience working in 0:12:23.300 --> 0:12:26.929 not for profits and local government, and I'm currently managing 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.059 Vision Australia's children and Young People team in Queensland. 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.210 Adelina, how would you introduce yourself? 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.450 Usually, my guide dog Tilly does a bit of an 0:12:35.450 --> 0:12:38.989 introduction in that I am vision impaired, so she and 0:12:38.990 --> 0:12:41.240 people usually look at her, look at me, look at her, 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.520 look at me and kind of think, is she or 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.429 isn't she? Because I don't present as vision impaired except 0:12:46.429 --> 0:12:48.860 that I have her? I'll get asked a question straight up, 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.470 Is she mine? You disclose that point? Yes, she's mine. 0:12:51.470 --> 0:12:55.790 And yes, I have low vision and I, but I 0:12:55.790 --> 0:12:57.500 still can see. I can see you and I could 0:12:57.500 --> 0:13:00.020 see my surrounds, and that usually relaxes the person. And 0:13:00.020 --> 0:13:02.900 then I will also say that, you know, I'm a 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.170 middle aged mom of a couple of teenagers and fierce 0:13:06.170 --> 0:13:10.839 advocate for different, not less. And and, you know, I'm 0:13:10.850 --> 0:13:14.510 a kind of fairly confident, outspoken middle aged female who's 0:13:14.900 --> 0:13:19.340 become more and more a fierce advocate for people with disability. 0:13:19.610 --> 0:13:25.400 So how big a part of your identity is your disability? 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.280 You know what, it hadn't been until about three years 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.309 ago when I had a kind of or have had 0:13:31.309 --> 0:13:33.179 a marriage breakdown, and it caused a lot of stress 0:13:33.179 --> 0:13:35.480 that caused me a lot of vision loss and quite 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.790 a considerable amount of vision loss. And I really had 0:13:37.790 --> 0:13:41.040 to realise then that I couldn't hide from this anymore. 0:13:41.059 --> 0:13:42.800 It's around about the same time I got the dog, 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.500 so I was a real pretender. I would pretend I 0:13:45.500 --> 0:13:49.339 was sighted, not disclose to many at all and still 0:13:49.340 --> 0:13:52.800 try and be as excited as I possibly could be. 0:13:53.059 --> 0:13:56.360 So I never identified really until about three years ago. Now, 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.690 to answer your question, I probably identify all of the time. 0:13:59.929 --> 0:14:02.660 Yeah, it's definitely a big part of my life. Being 0:14:02.660 --> 0:14:06.290 blind sort of dictates how I do everything, how I move, 0:14:06.290 --> 0:14:09.620 how I communicate. It's right at the forefront of how 0:14:09.620 --> 0:14:12.110 I operate. It's not necessarily always at the forefront of 0:14:12.110 --> 0:14:15.200 my mind, though. I just get on and do things. 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.140 But it's definitely the reason why I'm doing those things 0:14:18.140 --> 0:14:20.900 in ways that differ from everyone around me. 0:14:20.900 --> 0:14:23.150 I think that makes a lot of sense. I think 0:14:23.150 --> 0:14:26.180 your disability can really barriers to how much a part 0:14:26.270 --> 0:14:29.480 of your identity is, so it's wonderful to get to 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.370 slightly different perspectives and how 0:14:31.370 --> 0:14:34.400 much is acceptance. And this is something we talked about 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.930 with Jason as well. How much is your own acceptance 0:14:38.930 --> 0:14:42.380 of your disability? A key factor? Courtney, how about you? 0:14:42.410 --> 0:14:44.630 Yeah. So we've talked about grief in one of the 0:14:44.630 --> 0:14:50.570 earlier episodes. Bargaining and denial are natural parts or natural 0:14:50.570 --> 0:14:54.590 states associated with grief. A little bit like olina said, 0:14:54.590 --> 0:14:57.980 you're entitled to your denial. You're entitled to try and 0:14:57.980 --> 0:15:01.730 work around the disability as you're adjusting to it. But 0:15:02.090 --> 0:15:06.290 resistance definitely burns a lot of energy, and at some 0:15:06.290 --> 0:15:09.770 point I have come to the understanding that that energy 0:15:09.770 --> 0:15:13.609 is better used on working towards what's good and possible 0:15:13.670 --> 0:15:16.190 for me and the people I love. So getting on 0:15:16.310 --> 0:15:20.240 good terms with reality is an important daily practice and 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:21.290 I try to engage in. 0:15:21.350 --> 0:15:23.660 If you are struggling with that, what are some of 0:15:23.660 --> 0:15:26.090 the kinds of things that you can do to become 0:15:26.090 --> 0:15:27.859 more accepting of your disability? 0:15:27.890 --> 0:15:31.520 Among the most effective things that I've done to become 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.000 more accepting is to rub shoulders with other people with 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:39.980 disabilities and people that I admire because of their strong 0:15:39.980 --> 0:15:43.850 identification as somebody with a disability, their pride in who 0:15:43.850 --> 0:15:49.160 they are and learn from them. That's really accelerated some 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.160 of my growth as a person and my ability to 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.460 be out in the world representing my community in a 0:15:55.460 --> 0:15:57.140 way that feels 0:15:57.140 --> 0:16:01.100 comfortable for me and you, Adelina me trying to hide 0:16:01.100 --> 0:16:05.690 and cover up and pretend was exhausting and absolutely exhausting, 0:16:05.690 --> 0:16:07.550 and I just didn't want to do it anymore. And 0:16:07.550 --> 0:16:10.130 I realized when I started to work back with Mission 0:16:10.130 --> 0:16:13.790 Australia and work in the NDIS space, and I was 0:16:13.790 --> 0:16:15.410 privileged to have a role where I would stand up 0:16:15.410 --> 0:16:17.840 in front of people and tell them how supports could 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.090 change their lives. And I could do that from a 0:16:20.090 --> 0:16:23.600 place of lived experience. So I realised that, no, I 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.220 didn't want to stand there and tell people what I 0:16:25.250 --> 0:16:26.960 what I could say and what I could do, but 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:28.820 what I couldn't do and how I could do it 0:16:28.820 --> 0:16:31.580 with support. So that's when I sort of started why 0:16:31.580 --> 0:16:34.160 I put my advocacy have had on and really, you know, 0:16:34.370 --> 0:16:36.710 now that I'm almost privileged to be in this position 0:16:36.710 --> 0:16:39.530 now because I can change people's lives so by my 0:16:39.530 --> 0:16:42.260 lived experience and how I can educate them on how 0:16:42.260 --> 0:16:45.980 they can live a full life because often people in 0:16:45.980 --> 0:16:49.930 such a. A bad place, and I now use my 0:16:49.930 --> 0:16:53.290 voice to be part way, change that for them and 0:16:53.290 --> 0:16:56.080 show them that, Hey, you know what? It's possible, it's 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.470 possible to still be very empowered, especially as a woman. 0:16:59.470 --> 0:17:01.630 I speak a lot with women to be empowered as 0:17:01.630 --> 0:17:04.690 a woman, and you can still be a beautiful and 0:17:04.690 --> 0:17:07.810 desirable and well dressed and wear those heeled boots in 0:17:07.820 --> 0:17:09.730 that dress and we have a guide dog in your head. 0:17:09.940 --> 0:17:13.000 You know, that's that's my passion, and that's what I try. 0:17:13.420 --> 0:17:16.750 So that has really helped me come into my own 0:17:16.750 --> 0:17:18.700 as someone with vision loss. Absolutely. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.000 I'm just really interested about, I guess, the change that's 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.320 come in around NDIS, where you have to talk about 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.260 the things that you're not able to do in order 0:17:29.260 --> 0:17:31.629 for them to be the understanding about what support you need. 0:17:31.660 --> 0:17:34.750 How much do you think that's changed the dynamic of 0:17:34.990 --> 0:17:36.639 how you think about yourself? 0:17:36.650 --> 0:17:39.070 We have to now teach people how to speak the 0:17:39.070 --> 0:17:41.679 language of the NDIS, and it's really hard for someone 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.760 to sit there and say, for instance, they ridiculously worded 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.219 some of these questions like, you know, there's a self-care section, 0:17:48.220 --> 0:17:51.280 can you dress yourself? And everyone wants to say, yes, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.110 of course I can dress myself. We have to teach 0:17:53.109 --> 0:17:55.149 them how to say no. Yes, I can do it, 0:17:55.150 --> 0:17:58.060 but I need assistance. In my case, yes, I can 0:17:58.060 --> 0:18:00.520 dress myself, but I need help choosing color. I need 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.040 help putting makeup on in that then comes on top 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.350 of that. I need an occupational therapist. I need perhaps 0:18:05.350 --> 0:18:06.850 someone to show me how to put makeup on. Is 0:18:06.850 --> 0:18:11.050 a vision impaired woman. I need better lighting in my bathroom. 0:18:11.050 --> 0:18:13.330 I need my magnification, so we need to change the 0:18:13.330 --> 0:18:15.520 way people are thinking. So instead of just saying Yes, 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:17.109 I can do this myself, yes, I could do so, 0:18:17.140 --> 0:18:18.520 but I need help. 0:18:18.730 --> 0:18:23.140 That's fascinating. Courtney, have you found any, I guess, changes 0:18:23.140 --> 0:18:25.270 about how you feel about yourself or how you present 0:18:25.270 --> 0:18:27.429 yourself going through the NDIS process? 0:18:27.580 --> 0:18:32.020 It's pretty common that when you are long term vision 0:18:32.020 --> 0:18:35.230 impaired or you've had a disability of any kind for 0:18:35.230 --> 0:18:38.889 a long time, you've become really good at work arounds 0:18:39.010 --> 0:18:42.820 and everything that you do has been adjusted. You're using 0:18:42.820 --> 0:18:45.970 tools using strategies that the average person on the street 0:18:45.970 --> 0:18:49.600 couldn't even imagine. But because they've become everyday to you, 0:18:49.780 --> 0:18:53.500 you don't necessarily know how to articulate them, to break 0:18:53.500 --> 0:18:56.440 them down into tiny little chunks and feed them to 0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:00.550 somebody who has no experience of your disability. But that 0:19:00.550 --> 0:19:02.230 is what you have to do. You have to be 0:19:02.230 --> 0:19:05.260 able to articulate all of those work around. So you 0:19:05.260 --> 0:19:08.080 can say, Well, yes, I can do this thing that 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.540 I require x y z in order to be able 0:19:10.540 --> 0:19:13.350 to do that above and beyond what the average person does. 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.760 So for me to lead an ordinary life, I have 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.060 all of these adaptations, some of which will require funding 0:19:19.060 --> 0:19:21.580 for me to be able to continue Adelina. 0:19:21.609 --> 0:19:27.550 You mentioned before the importance of emphasizing being different instead 0:19:27.550 --> 0:19:30.070 of saying, Listen, can you tell us a little bit 0:19:30.070 --> 0:19:33.700 about why that's important? Yeah, absolutely. So you know, in 0:19:33.700 --> 0:19:37.720 a nutshell, it's I try to, you know, empower people 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.270 with that thought that you're not less than anyone else 0:19:40.270 --> 0:19:42.480 because you have a disability. You just do things differently. 0:19:42.490 --> 0:19:45.070 You know, we we can do anything that anyone else 0:19:45.070 --> 0:19:48.880 can within our limits of having low vision. But we 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.640 just as Courtney said, before we just do it, we 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:53.679 adapt the way we do it. So, you know, we 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:55.990 considered a computer and we do our job, but we 0:19:55.990 --> 0:19:58.330 need assistive technology to do that. You know, I can 0:19:58.510 --> 0:20:01.510 I can walk to work and commute to my workplace, 0:20:01.780 --> 0:20:03.669 but I need my dog beside me to help me 0:20:03.670 --> 0:20:05.860 to do that. It's just those little tweaks we have 0:20:05.859 --> 0:20:08.920 in life to now enable us to to do things differently. 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:10.869 But we are certainly no less than anyone else 0:20:11.109 --> 0:20:15.040 on, Hey, how do you negotiate those boundaries around helping 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.280 people to understand a disability? What's not kind of taking 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.429 on the responsibility of being everyone's teachable moment? I know 0:20:21.430 --> 0:20:23.780 that's something we've kind of touched on before, but that's 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:24.909 a really tough thing to do. 0:20:24.940 --> 0:20:26.919 Yeah. And I kind of running a bit of a 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.340 cost benefit analysis when I bump into people. So I'm 0:20:30.340 --> 0:20:33.400 looking at whether or not they have the capacity to 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:37.330 learn if they're deeply invested in a particular way of 0:20:37.330 --> 0:20:40.660 seeing things and that gives them a sense of power. 0:20:40.690 --> 0:20:42.909 Then I know that it's probably not going to be 0:20:42.910 --> 0:20:45.730 productive to push, you know, I come across a lot 0:20:45.730 --> 0:20:48.460 of people that are just not that great at perceiving 0:20:48.460 --> 0:20:53.290 and integrating new information generally. Sometimes it's time limits, so 0:20:53.290 --> 0:20:56.650 it might only be a passing exchange. I will do 0:20:56.650 --> 0:20:59.169 things differently then, as opposed to if we have a 0:20:59.170 --> 0:21:02.320 bit more time to explore, and I'm also thinking about 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:06.220 my emotional reserves. So if I'm already depleted, then it 0:21:06.220 --> 0:21:09.820 might not be worth trying to educate somebody when I'm 0:21:09.820 --> 0:21:12.700 feeling like that versus when I have the energy to 0:21:12.700 --> 0:21:15.150 do it. If it's service, I'll try to work with 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:19.060 a person directly the service provider. But if they're combative 0:21:19.060 --> 0:21:21.100 and I sense they want to dominate me, then I'll 0:21:21.100 --> 0:21:23.650 send the feedback up the line, hopefully to somebody who's 0:21:23.650 --> 0:21:27.910 a little bit more reasonable. So it's about balancing my capacity, 0:21:27.970 --> 0:21:31.090 their capacity and the impact on my community. Oh, that's 0:21:31.180 --> 0:21:34.630 fantastic. A fantastic kind of methodology to use. 0:21:35.020 --> 0:21:39.010 Finally, Adelaide, Matt and Courtney, what are some steps that 0:21:39.010 --> 0:21:41.950 people could take to make it easier to disclose because 0:21:41.950 --> 0:21:45.250 we know that disclosing can be very challenging? Adelina, would 0:21:45.250 --> 0:21:48.720 you like to? Yeah, look, I. I think that something 0:21:48.810 --> 0:21:52.470 I've learnt in disclosure is using it as an opportunity 0:21:52.470 --> 0:21:56.550 to educate as well. So when I disclose or have 0:21:56.550 --> 0:21:58.680 done in the past, sure, I've said I've got low vision, 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:00.659 but I've just explained what that what that what that 0:22:00.660 --> 0:22:02.640 looks like for me. And I let you know what 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:04.530 I can see. You know, I can see your face, 0:22:04.530 --> 0:22:05.669 I can see you standing in front of me. I 0:22:05.670 --> 0:22:08.610 can tell that you're wearing a dark color, but I 0:22:08.609 --> 0:22:10.679 probably can't see beyond that. You know, just give me 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:12.780 a little bit of a context of what I can see. 0:22:12.900 --> 0:22:14.940 And just to give them an understanding. And it makes 0:22:14.950 --> 0:22:17.280 it when I do that, it tends to make them 0:22:17.369 --> 0:22:20.700 a little bit more comfortable. OK, then I can look 0:22:20.700 --> 0:22:22.500 her in the eye and I know she's going to 0:22:22.500 --> 0:22:25.950 make eye contact with me to some degree. Or it 0:22:25.950 --> 0:22:28.260 also helps if I'm out and about, especially in dimly 0:22:28.260 --> 0:22:32.010 lit situations. If I disclose before I go into the 0:22:32.010 --> 0:22:34.560 venue to someone who may not doesn't know me very 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.100 well or just met. You know, it's just having the 0:22:38.100 --> 0:22:42.000 confidence to be able to explain to people what, what, 0:22:42.180 --> 0:22:43.859 what you can see and how they can help you 0:22:43.859 --> 0:22:45.420 out a bunch of friends. I was in Byron Bay 0:22:45.420 --> 0:22:47.580 once and one of my friends pulled me back from 0:22:47.580 --> 0:22:49.290 not stepping out front of the car. This before I 0:22:49.290 --> 0:22:51.480 had my dog and he screamed. I mean, he was very, 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:53.280 very mad because I've known him since university and he 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:55.200 said to me, Adalind, we just need to know what 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:56.459 you can and can't see, so we know how to 0:22:56.460 --> 0:22:59.770 support you. So very nice work. I mean, just so, 0:23:00.090 --> 0:23:02.340 you know, stop being so bloody independent and tell us 0:23:02.340 --> 0:23:04.830 how otherwise you're going to get killed, you know? So 0:23:05.490 --> 0:23:07.680 and that was it. That was by then they kind 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.770 of did an intervention with me that night and sort 0:23:10.770 --> 0:23:13.170 of said, You know, we we need to know you're 0:23:13.170 --> 0:23:16.800 obviously not the woman you were at university. Clearly, you 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:18.150 can't see what you used to be able to see. 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:19.679 So we need to know now so we know how 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:21.930 to support you. And then it just takes the pressure 0:23:21.930 --> 0:23:23.879 off us as well. And I never looked at it 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:26.909 like that before. I've had to really think about how 0:23:26.910 --> 0:23:29.220 it affects the other person and how to fix those 0:23:29.220 --> 0:23:30.000 around me. 0:23:30.210 --> 0:23:33.510 Yeah, I think when people acquire vision loss for the 0:23:33.510 --> 0:23:37.350 first time or they're new to disability generally, that there's 0:23:37.350 --> 0:23:40.770 a real aversion to joining the community and identifying as 0:23:40.770 --> 0:23:45.090 somebody who's one of many with a disability. But one 0:23:45.090 --> 0:23:48.119 of the benefits, I guess, of being part of our 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:51.990 community is that you get to review a range of approaches, 0:23:51.990 --> 0:23:55.050 what other people have done before, and you can choose 0:23:55.050 --> 0:23:57.900 what things might look like for you. And that includes 0:23:57.900 --> 0:24:00.690 in relation to how you disclose your disability. I would 0:24:00.690 --> 0:24:04.950 recommend that people think about different situations because it will vary, 0:24:04.950 --> 0:24:08.160 as we've talked about already today. And I also think 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:10.680 people need to be gentle with themselves because you'll be 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:13.859 learning about how to do this well for yourself, for 0:24:13.859 --> 0:24:16.020 the rest of your life, and you'll choose and change 0:24:16.020 --> 0:24:18.720 your mind over and over and over again. That is 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:18.810 a 0:24:18.810 --> 0:24:22.260 wonderful note to end on Adelina. Courtney, thank you so 0:24:22.260 --> 0:24:25.380 much for being here and sharing your lived experience with 0:24:25.380 --> 0:24:27.570 this is just being such a privilege chatting to you 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:28.350 and wonderful to 0:24:28.350 --> 0:24:30.490 be here and congratulations on a great series. 0:24:30.510 --> 0:24:32.970 Guys, thank you for having me and have a be 0:24:32.970 --> 0:24:34.680 a part of it. I've really enjoyed it and I 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:36.690 hope it helps lots of people out there. I really do. 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:37.640 Well done, guys. 0:24:37.650 --> 0:24:41.070 Thank you both so much and Jason too. And as ever, 0:24:41.070 --> 0:24:44.400 this is just the start of the conversation about identity, 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:48.180 community and disclosure. And you can visit the Vision Australia 0:24:48.180 --> 0:24:52.230 website for some useful resources and information, including an article 0:24:52.230 --> 0:24:55.170 with some tips about how you can disclose your disability 0:24:55.170 --> 0:24:56.340 to employees. 0:24:56.430 --> 0:25:02.970 We've just finished our last episode, Tony. I know I 0:25:02.970 --> 0:25:06.300 don't know what to think about this, but we could 0:25:06.300 --> 0:25:09.210 not have done it without some very special people. I 0:25:09.210 --> 0:25:12.960 have the great honour of first and foremost, thanking our 0:25:12.990 --> 0:25:16.710 wonderful collection of guests. We I look, I'm sure that 0:25:16.710 --> 0:25:18.660 people would love to listen to Polly and I just 0:25:18.660 --> 0:25:20.160 chattering white. We certainly do. 0:25:20.540 --> 0:25:23.619 Shortest, I'm less sure. But yes, 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:27.270 for those who don't feel like listening to us, just 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:31.399 chatting away, our guests have brought something just fantastic for podcast. 0:25:31.410 --> 0:25:35.630 Thank you to everyone who participated in the box. Pops 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:40.440 just added some fantastic color. Thank you to our listeners, 0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:42.869 our wonderful listeners. I mean, what would be the point 0:25:42.869 --> 0:25:45.420 of creating a podcast that you to listen to us 0:25:45.420 --> 0:25:48.250 and tell us where we're going right or going wrong? 0:25:48.270 --> 0:25:52.650 And finally, and I speak on behalf of Polly and myself. 0:25:52.770 --> 0:25:55.890 It is most important and so much so very important 0:25:55.890 --> 0:25:59.560 to thank our wonderful producer Jace. You were huge that 0:25:59.790 --> 0:26:03.330 day because he had just been a wonderful source of 0:26:03.330 --> 0:26:06.300 support and expertise. He holds us in line cases in 0:26:06.300 --> 0:26:09.330 line when when Polly and I are having too much 0:26:09.330 --> 0:26:10.230 fun and 0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:11.790 easy, not an easy task. 0:26:12.660 --> 0:26:15.800 So it's really not and really more than anything else 0:26:15.810 --> 0:26:18.870 we could not have done without him. So thank you, guys. 0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:21.780 Thanks, guys. It's the lived experience of our guests that 0:26:21.780 --> 0:26:23.909 really pulled it together. I really appreciate everyone's 0:26:23.910 --> 0:26:25.889 efforts, completely stressed 0:26:26.550 --> 0:26:30.570 and remembered. This episode and early episodes of Nothing's Off 0:26:30.570 --> 0:26:34.050 Limits can be downloaded from the Vision Australia website. Just 0:26:34.050 --> 0:26:37.860 go to Vision Australia dot org and type. Nothing's off 0:26:37.859 --> 0:26:40.470 limits into the search engine and you'll find our web 0:26:40.470 --> 0:26:43.560 page and you can catch up with all 10 episodes, 0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:45.900 as well as resources that go along with them. And 0:26:45.900 --> 0:26:48.130 we'd love to. Your feedback about the series of what 0:26:48.130 --> 0:26:51.010 you liked, what you didn't like and what you suggest 0:26:51.010 --> 0:26:53.980 should there be a second series? You can reach us 0:26:53.980 --> 0:26:58.270 on nothing's off limits at Vision Australia dot org that's 0:26:58.270 --> 0:27:02.619 nothing's off limits at Vision Australia. Org No apostrophe upon 0:27:02.619 --> 0:27:06.190 apologies there for the grammar experts. But we do hope 0:27:06.190 --> 0:27:08.920 to be with you again soon. Until then, thank you 0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:11.679 so much for joining us for the show where nothing's 0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:12.430 off limits. 0:27:17.790 --> 0:27:21.719 That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of 0:27:21.730 --> 0:27:26.820 Vision Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant. 0:27:27.030 --> 0:27:31.200 Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio, 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:33.960 dot org and access all there is to know about 0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:38.190 our range of client services via our website. Vision Australia 0:27:38.430 --> 0:27:42.480 dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode, 0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:46.350 but especially you for listening today. We rely on your support, 0:27:46.530 --> 0:27:49.679 so please share this podcast with just one person today 0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:53.070 and brighten our day or write us on your preferred 0:27:53.070 --> 0:27:55.650 podcast platform. Bye for now.