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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers.

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Speaker 1: Now, So we've begun this podcast. By the way, welcome

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Speaker 1: to this Week in Parenting. This Week in Parenting is

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we have a look at the stuff

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Speaker 1: that's in the news that affects parents and talk about

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Speaker 1: what's going on for mums and dads and cares that

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Speaker 1: are just wanting to make their family happy. Kylie's got

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Speaker 1: her back to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you put me in the naughty corner.

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Speaker 1: It feels like we don't do that. We don't do

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Speaker 1: that in this house. But you've got you back to me.

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Speaker 1: When we sit facing each other, it basically looks like

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look like it sounds like we're broadcasting from

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Speaker 1: a toilet.

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Speaker 2: We're definitely not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're definitely not in a toilet. I promise you that.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, welcome to this Week in Parenting. Kylie. We

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Speaker 1: have a bunch of stories. You are as always conducting

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Speaker 1: the music here. What are we talking about first and

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Speaker 1: where are we going with it? Well?

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Speaker 2: I think we need to revisit the blue episode the Sign.

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Speaker 2: We talked about it a couple of weeks back.

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Speaker 1: If you're looking at. On the podcast, I think I

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Speaker 1: said something like.

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Speaker 2: I really liked it, Ji, can you replay that.

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Speaker 1: Such sublime content for our kids to watch. There's a

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Speaker 1: reason that it's the number one TV show on the planet. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I definitely definitely said that I liked it on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm having second thoughts. I mean, I love Bluie.

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Speaker 1: It's not that I don't like Blue. I just think

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Speaker 1: that I think that they got it wrong, Kylie. I

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Speaker 1: think that the sign was wrong.

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Speaker 2: Look at two things here. I'm actually really surprised that

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Speaker 2: you're still thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: Blue gets in your head.

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Speaker 2: But number two, when we recorded it, you acknowledged that

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Speaker 2: you were actually deeply saddened by the fact that we've

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Speaker 2: done so many moves, and you wonder how children's lives

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Speaker 2: would be different, specifically had they have had more stability,

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Speaker 2: which was actually quite a shock to me. So where

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Speaker 2: are you standing now?

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Speaker 1: Well, the reason that I am not happy with Blue

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Speaker 1: is because I think that they missed an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: teach I guess they taught parents that if you can

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Speaker 1: maintain stability, you don't have to keep on chasing the

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Speaker 1: dollar and keep on chasing the corporate climb. That's one

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Speaker 1: listen there, but I don't know if too many parents

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Speaker 1: would have picked that up. I just don't know if

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Speaker 1: that's what most parents are going to do when cost

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Speaker 1: of living bites and there's opportunities for improvement and so on,

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Speaker 1: and families do move often, they don't want to. Often

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Speaker 1: there's no choice. It just has to be done. And

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Speaker 1: I reckon they should have just done it different. I

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Speaker 1: reckon that the sign should have finished with the moving

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Speaker 1: and having to readjust having to try to figure out

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Speaker 1: what now.

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Speaker 2: Even in spite of the fact that you wish your

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Speaker 2: kids had more stability.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, simply because people don't. And apart from that,

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Speaker 1: they would have gotten another full season of Bluey with

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Speaker 1: everything that happened moving forward interesting. So that's not really

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Speaker 1: a this Week in pairenting, but more of just a

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Speaker 1: felt like there was a loose end hanging over my head.

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Speaker 1: I still love Bluie, I'm not cranky about it, but

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Speaker 1: there was opportunities there. I reckon the conversations could have

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Speaker 1: been phenomenal. Let's get into the real news now. Storry

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Speaker 1: number two. So there's a parliamentary inquiry probing New South

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Speaker 1: Wales vaping regulation and compliance happening right now, and an

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Speaker 1: academic in New South Wales, so a fellow by the

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Speaker 1: name of Colin Mendelssohn, who is the founding chairman of

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Speaker 1: the Australian Tobacco Harm Reduction Association, has said that basically

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Speaker 1: the government's efforts to regulate the vaping industry completely dismal failure.

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Speaker 1: Vaping laws have existed, saying that it's been illegal to

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Speaker 1: import or sell nicotine vapes without a prescription in Australia

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Speaker 1: since mid twoenty twenty one. What we also know though,

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Speaker 1: is that vapes that do not contain nicotine are currently

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Speaker 1: legal in New South Wales, but a lot of ease

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Speaker 1: cigarettes with nicotine are being sold without a label that's

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Speaker 1: advertising that products have nicotine. Basically, people are flatting the

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Speaker 1: rules all over the place and because of this inquiry,

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Speaker 1: doctor Mendelssohn is basically saying what we want to do

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Speaker 1: is we know that some kids are addicted and they're

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Speaker 1: going to continue to vape no matter what, and therefore

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Speaker 1: his focus is on minimizing harm for the child and

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Speaker 1: harm to the classroom. He also said this was interesting.

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Speaker 1: He said vaping was one of the least harmful risk

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Speaker 1: behavior's children indulge in. And he said he would much

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Speaker 1: rather his children or grandchildren vape than smoke or drink

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Speaker 1: drive regardless, really really really bad for you, really unhealthy.

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Speaker 1: And this is the conversation that's happening right now.

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Speaker 2: So I guess the thing that I find most intriguing

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Speaker 2: about this is just the acknowledgment we know how harmful

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Speaker 2: cigarettes are. Yeah, nicotine is a drug that our kids

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Speaker 2: have access to every day, Like they can walk into

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Speaker 2: any store as long as they've got an adult purchasing

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Speaker 2: for them, they can get access to it whenever they want.

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Speaker 1: Smoking is on the way down, by the way, Smoking

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Speaker 1: has been on the way down for quite.

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Speaker 2: A while, but vaping has gone through the room.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so it's really intriguing to me that we're having

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Speaker 2: a conversation about how we teach our kids to have

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Speaker 2: safe access to it when we recognize and know just

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Speaker 2: how harmful it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the impact of vaping on physical health, but also

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Speaker 1: mental health. There's concerned that if someone's anxious or depressed

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Speaker 1: or using vapes for other reasons and it could exacerbate

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Speaker 1: those issues. I'm really sympathetic to an understanding of the

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Speaker 1: compassionate grounds for a harm reduction policy. But fundamentally these

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Speaker 1: things are dangerous. I read something that there's something like

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Speaker 1: two hundred chemicals contained in vapes, and many of those

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Speaker 1: chemicals cause cancer. It's known that they're carcinogens. I just

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Speaker 1: think it's nuts that people are getting away with this

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Speaker 1: and that the government doesn't do muto crack down. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's almost like they've shrugged their shoulder and said, oh,

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Speaker 1: too bad, so sad. We're having this inquiry, We're going

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Speaker 1: to try to tighten things up, but ultimately people are

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Speaker 1: still going to do it. I guess that's what government

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Speaker 1: it's therefore, so that they can try to make something happen.

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Speaker 1: That's an improvement. Definitely, definitely don't let your kids vape.

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Speaker 1: Encourage them to stay away from it. If you want

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Speaker 1: more about that, have listened to my conversation with doctor

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Speaker 1: Lisa de Moore on Instagram. We will link to that

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Speaker 1: one in the show notes. Story number three has regulation

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Speaker 1: around vaping titans right the way across the country.

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Speaker 2: There are concerns the crackdown might cause kids and teens

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Speaker 2: to switch to other products. Yeah, I mean nicotine pouches

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Speaker 2: have now grown in popularity after viral videos advertise them

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Speaker 2: as a means of quitting e cigarettes. Well, this is

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Speaker 2: actually a little bit of an extension from the vaping conversation.

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Speaker 2: Kids are now having access to nicotine pouches.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a brand new nicotine product out. It's

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Speaker 1: becoming increasingly popular with young people. And here's the scary thing.

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Speaker 1: A lot of parents won't even know that their kids

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Speaker 1: are using it because they're essentially invisible nicotine pouches. They're

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Speaker 1: called zins or snuffs or little lip pillows. It sounds

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Speaker 1: so nice, So it sounds so friendly, So gentle a

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Speaker 1: little lippillow. They've become fashionable, all thanks to what do

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Speaker 1: you know, social media? Social media is the harder kind

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Speaker 1: of everything that's going wrong with the world. I think

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Speaker 1: they look like these tiny teapags. They're filled with nicotine

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Speaker 1: flavors include mint, bubblegum, mango. It sounds so good, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: And you just place this tiny little nicotine pouch between

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Speaker 1: your lip and your gum and the nicotine is absorbed

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Speaker 1: directly into the bloodstream. Here's what some young people said

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Speaker 1: on a Current Affair about these nicotine pouches. I was

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Speaker 1: in high school.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people are doing them, and that's where

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Speaker 2: I initially tried them.

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Speaker 1: Eighteen year old Matilda and twenty year old Jacob have

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Speaker 1: both tried pouches.

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Speaker 2: You pull it out and it's like, just like gum.

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Speaker 2: People ain't really like blank an eye at.

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Speaker 1: It rather than seeing pops of clouds coming out.

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Speaker 2: At one point I put eight in just for the

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Speaker 2: giggles and it killed one mouth.

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Speaker 1: So the whole goal is that these pouches are very,

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Speaker 1: very discreet, they smell good, and unfortunately they get you

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Speaker 1: addicted to nicotine.

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Speaker 2: Well it's like a breath freshener with a kick, right.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, that sounds like a marketing line. Wow, you

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Speaker 1: didn't mean that, but that was good. Yeah, And people

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Speaker 1: keep on mentioning kids in focus groups, keep on mentioning

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Speaker 1: these pouches. They're getting them from tobacconists, they're buying them online.

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Speaker 1: They're this trending new thing.

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Speaker 2: They're not but did you say they're illegal.

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Speaker 1: They are not legal products in Australia, and I guess

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Speaker 1: something aligned with that chewing tobacco that's been banned in

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Speaker 1: Australia since nineteen ninety one. This is kind of like

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Speaker 1: a less obvious version of that, and they're not chewing it.

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Speaker 1: They're just sort of sticking it in between their gums

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Speaker 1: and their lips. It's kind of crazy. Tobacconists reckon that

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Speaker 1: nicotine pouch sales are absolutely booming, and no surprise, two

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Speaker 1: of the largest tobacco companies in the world, Philip Morrison

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Speaker 1: British American Tobacco have created their own brands. Reading from

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Speaker 1: news dot com dot U In twenty twenty two, the TGA,

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Speaker 1: the Therapeutic Goods Administration, sees around about one hundred and

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Speaker 1: ten thousand of those pouches last year three point five million,

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Speaker 1: and so far this year, the Federal Health Department reckons

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Speaker 1: about five point one million units were under assessment for seizure.

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Speaker 1: These nicotine pouches are booming.

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Speaker 2: So the thing that I find really curious about all

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Speaker 2: of this is just the acknowledgment that often we have

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Speaker 2: conversations about the fact that the government needs to do

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Speaker 2: more to safeguard our kids, or you know, to change

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Speaker 2: laws or whatever. But you're literally telling me that sales

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Speaker 2: are going through the roof for these pouches, and yet

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Speaker 2: they're illegal. We have these we have these laws, but

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Speaker 2: there's no enforcement.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm the legislator, just it's.

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Speaker 2: Curious to me. If you're going to create a law,

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Speaker 2: then there needs to be a way to safeguard the

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Speaker 2: citizens of any society, but also to enforce the law,

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Speaker 2: or else the law becomes a joke.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, bigger fines, closing shops, that sort of stuff. He's

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing that I discovered. A medium strength nicotine

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Speaker 1: pouch contains about ten milligrams of nicotine. That's a medium

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Speaker 1: strength about ten milligrams. Average cigarette contains about twelve miligrams

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Speaker 1: of nicotine.

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Speaker 2: But I'm going to assume, though, if these pouches are

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Speaker 2: directly absorbed into the bloodstream, they're going to be way

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Speaker 2: more effective.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So with a Litz cigarette, because it burns so much,

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Speaker 1: you only absorb about one point five of that twelve milligrams,

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Speaker 1: whereas if you've got a ten miligram nicotine pouch, you're

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Speaker 1: getting every single bit of that is all going in.

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Speaker 2: There, so almost ten times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, it's a really big problem. I Mean,

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Speaker 1: I just can't believe the ethics of these companies that

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Speaker 1: create them. Philip Morris, which makes Zinns facing a lawsuit

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Speaker 1: in America at the moment because of the claims that

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Speaker 1: it's addictive and harmful to young people, and yet they

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Speaker 1: keep on making it. Why Because the dollar matters more

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Speaker 1: than anything else. Story number four.

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Speaker 2: The South Australian government are working towards banning social media

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Speaker 2: for under fourteens.

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Speaker 3: South Australian Premier Peter Malanaskis says a ban would help

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Speaker 3: young people improve their mental health. The excessive use of

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Speaker 3: social media with an ally itself was actually doing harm

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Speaker 3: to our young people's mental health. And then we're seeing

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Speaker 3: a dramatic spike in childhood depression, childhood anxiety, and it's

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Speaker 3: most extreme and for soon evidence of youth suicide. And

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Speaker 3: I think we're sort of at the point now that

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Speaker 3: governments have to act.

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Speaker 1: This is a really really vexing, really challenging, tricky issue.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I don't know what the right thing to

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Speaker 1: do here. People get around bands, banning and regulation and

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Speaker 1: restriction like this doesn't usually go particularly well. Banning might

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Speaker 1: seem like the easier answer, it rarely is. However, when

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Speaker 1: you look at the way school students, too many of

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Speaker 1: them are using social media the way they're getting likes

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Speaker 1: and shares and popularity by sharing violent acts that they

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Speaker 1: commit towards one another, or anti social acts or theft

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Speaker 1: or I mean, the list is so long that the bullying,

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Speaker 1: just the awful stuff. There so many things that go

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Speaker 1: wrong here. I just I think that they need to

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Speaker 1: be applauded for at least looking into it. They're calling

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Speaker 1: it ambitious. That's the word that they're using. And under

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Speaker 1: the proposal, they're saying children aged fourteen and fifteen would

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Speaker 1: require parental consent to access a social media account. If

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Speaker 1: you're under fourteen in South Australia, you just wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: allowed to use social media. Now again, I have no

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Speaker 1: idea how they'll do that. They've got some very very

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Speaker 1: credible and thoughtful people looking into what that might look like.

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Speaker 1: Obviously everyone around the place has got a big opinion

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Speaker 1: about it. Good on for having a look at it.

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Speaker 1: If it could be done in a productive and effective way,

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Speaker 1: I'm off for it. I am actually off for it.

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Speaker 1: I just think social media, the phone based childhood and

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Speaker 1: all the awfulness that goes along with it. The more

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Speaker 1: we can keep our kids away from it, and the

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Speaker 1: longer we can keep our kids away from it. The

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Speaker 1: better start, slow, delay access. I mean, this is the

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Speaker 1: right idea. I don't know whether it can be executed.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there's got to be a better

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Speaker 1: way of doing it, but I've just love that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about it, and that would not only be enough,

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Speaker 1: but one more, just one more today because we love

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Speaker 1: this Week in Parenting.

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Speaker 2: Australian model Ali Gonzavis said parents go into defense mode

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Speaker 2: over her viral list containing one hundred and eighteen reasons

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Speaker 2: not to have kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this thirty three year old who's been with

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Speaker 1: her husband for like fifteen years or something, which is

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Speaker 1: a really I mean, that's great stuff, but she published

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Speaker 1: this list on social media when absolutely viral. One hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighteen reasons why I'm never having kids, she said.

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Speaker 2: In response to people's queries, she said, this is a

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Speaker 2: very honest, personal list as to why I will remain

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Speaker 2: child free. She said, it's my own personal thoughts based

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Speaker 2: on a lot of my own experiences or things very

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Speaker 2: honest people have shared with me personally or online. And

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Speaker 2: then she shares a whole heap of.

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Speaker 1: Things kids can be rude.

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Speaker 2: She said, you have to take in kids to sports

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Speaker 2: on the weekends. You have to go to your kids

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Speaker 2: parent teach your interviews. You have to pay school fees

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Speaker 2: and excess of ten thousand dollars per year. If you

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Speaker 2: want your kid to go to a good school, then

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Speaker 2: you've got the C section scars. Your vagina will be

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Speaker 2: different post natural birth. The epidural needle is massive. A

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Speaker 2: whole room of people see your vagina and your insights.

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Speaker 2: You more than likely will pull yourself during birth. You

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Speaker 2: could get postpartum depression. The food you cook your kids

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Speaker 2: will usually not be eaten because kids are picky eating.

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Speaker 1: That's so pressing. So if you have.

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Speaker 2: Kids and regret it, you're stuck with them forever.

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Speaker 1: My favorite one is rule number nineteen or reason number nineteen.

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Speaker 1: They can pooll inside you. I presume she's speaking about

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Speaker 1: when the baby is inside you, that it has to

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Speaker 1: have some sort of waste elimination. I wonder if she

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Speaker 1: knows that it's all biologically okay, like that's look.

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Speaker 2: I read the list and obviously.

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Speaker 1: Body swelling, face swelling. I mean, all of the.

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Speaker 2: Things are legit, right, they all happen. But the reality

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Speaker 2: is everybody has their own opportunity to make their own

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Speaker 2: minds up whether or not they want children or not.

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Speaker 1: Well, she's not trying to convince other people that she's right.

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Speaker 2: No, But what she is saying is that people who

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Speaker 2: are parents specifically get really upset with her decision not

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Speaker 2: to and they're trying to convince her that she's making

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Speaker 2: I don't you know, White people get so hot onto

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Speaker 2: the color about this, and that's my thing. I just

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Speaker 2: think each to their own, and based on her list,

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Speaker 2: she doesn't.

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Speaker 1: She probably she's a lot of mum, and I'm.

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Speaker 2: Really grateful that she has the foresight to recognize that

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Speaker 2: she's not a mom.

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Speaker 1: Best line of the article Gonzalves, who has been with

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Speaker 1: her husband Ross for fifteen years, so the two of

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Speaker 1: them have worked really, really hard for peace. Quote now,

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Speaker 1: we just don't care to disrupt that piece, she said,

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Speaker 1: Good move, because if you have kids, you're going to

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Speaker 1: disrupt that piece. As parents of six kids, what is peace?

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Speaker 1: What is peace? We hope you've enjoyed this week in parenting.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce

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Speaker 1: is our executive producer. For more information about how you

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Speaker 1: can make your family happy. Yeah, we'd love for you

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Speaker 1: to visit us at happy families dot com dot au

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Speaker 2: H