WEBVTT - Part 2: The AFL’s first openly bisexual player

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<v Speaker 1>Already, and this is the daily. This is the daily.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the daily. Ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday,

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty ninth of August. I'm Sam Kazlowski. Yesterday we

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<v Speaker 1>brought you the first half of our historic chat with

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<v Speaker 1>former AFL player Mitch Brown.

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<v Speaker 2>I played in AFL for ten years, and I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>bisexual man.

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<v Speaker 1>In Sitting Down with TDA, Mitch became the first male player,

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<v Speaker 1>past or present in one hundred and twenty nine years

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<v Speaker 1>to be openly gay or bisexual.

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<v Speaker 2>The AFL community is uniting behind former West Coast Mitch Brown.

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<v Speaker 1>The first openly bisexual man in the AFL's one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and thirty year history.

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<v Speaker 2>Power do you, Mitch Brown? Power you? This is going

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<v Speaker 2>to help so many more people than you'll ever know now.

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<v Speaker 1>In the final moments of Part one, I asked Mitch

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<v Speaker 1>about his decision to retire from the AFL at just

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eight and whether it was connected to the homophobia

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<v Speaker 1>he witnessed in the locker room and on the field

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<v Speaker 1>and the constant grappling with his identity. In Part two

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<v Speaker 1>of our game changing chat with Mitch Brown, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to chat about his bisexuality, his family, and the future

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<v Speaker 1>of representation in the AFL. Here it is, let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>about that identity, and let's talk about some of the

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<v Speaker 1>stereotypes that exist around bisexuality. I want to kind of

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<v Speaker 1>foreshadow what I think the comments section might look like

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<v Speaker 1>on our chat, and I want to ask whether you're

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<v Speaker 1>worried about being dismissed because you have a female partner

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<v Speaker 1>and you present, as you've said, as what many would

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<v Speaker 1>stereotype as a straight man.

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<v Speaker 2>It does does worry me. It worries me to a point.

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<v Speaker 2>But at the end of the day, I'm strong enough.

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<v Speaker 2>I know who I am, I know the people that

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<v Speaker 2>I love, and that's all that matters to me. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think through my experience what I've learned, and as

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up, your sexuality or being queer for a

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<v Speaker 2>man only meant you're either gay or you're not. There's

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<v Speaker 2>no in between. Either can't be, you can't love both,

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<v Speaker 2>can't be sexually attracted to both. Bisexuality is not a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's made up to cover gay men or straight presenting

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<v Speaker 2>gay men, right, And this is what I've learned. One

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<v Speaker 2>of the powerful lessons I've learned from our young people

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<v Speaker 2>is you know, I feel that young people here in

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<v Speaker 2>Australia think of sexuality so different. It's so black and white.

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<v Speaker 2>For older generations and for young people, sexuality means different things.

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<v Speaker 2>Queerness means different things. Being a bisexual man can look different,

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<v Speaker 2>and it does look different.

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<v Speaker 1>Bisexual people face discrimination not just from the straight communit,

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<v Speaker 1>but also from other members of the LGBT community. There's

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<v Speaker 1>this sense of being too gay for straight spaces and

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<v Speaker 1>too straight for gay spaces. Have you experienced that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of double rejection?

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<v Speaker 2>You know what I've experienced, especially my history and my

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<v Speaker 2>background grew up in the country. I've got a you know,

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<v Speaker 2>an identical twin brother who played football as well, stoic

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<v Speaker 2>and strong. I definitely like I feel sometimes like I

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<v Speaker 2>question my own place in the queer community. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>look at you, you're a white male privilege looking the

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<v Speaker 2>way you do, trying to step into our trauma that's

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<v Speaker 2>ours and I acknowledge that too, like the first one

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<v Speaker 2>to understand that and to admit my journey has been

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<v Speaker 2>relatively easy. The fact that I can see here and

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<v Speaker 2>say I'm comfortable and strong in talking about my sexuality

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<v Speaker 2>such a privilege, because I know there's so many people

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<v Speaker 2>out there, so many men out there that especially bisexual

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<v Speaker 2>men or straight presenting men with a strong masculine friendship group,

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, they may be married to a woman

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<v Speaker 2>or have a girlfriend that's a woman having these feelings

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<v Speaker 2>questioning or being attracted to another man and feeling shamed

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<v Speaker 2>and embarrassed about it. And part of the reason why

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to share some of my experiences is so

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<v Speaker 2>those people, whether they want to start talking about it

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<v Speaker 2>with their partner or with their friends or someone in

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<v Speaker 2>their community, that they feel seen and that it's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>It's okay to have these feelings. You're not any less

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<v Speaker 2>of a man, whatever that means, you know. I remember

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<v Speaker 2>the comments from Gil McLaughlin, CEO of the AFL.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to ask you about them. He said that

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<v Speaker 1>he can understand why nobody has come out in the

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<v Speaker 1>men's game, because why would anybody want that burden? How

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<v Speaker 1>does that make you feel in the seat that you're

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<v Speaker 1>in now.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember those comments, and the conversation in the locker

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<v Speaker 2>room just exacerbated that fear even more. If you're a

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<v Speaker 2>gay man or a bisexual man, sitting in that locker

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<v Speaker 2>room because the players would be like, oh can you

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<v Speaker 2>imagine this?

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<v Speaker 1>This?

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<v Speaker 2>Or I even heard the one night, you know, I'd

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<v Speaker 2>even do it. I would even pretend so I could

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<v Speaker 2>get some money out of it or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, it's absurd, But I remember those comments, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's really easy for me as a pass player. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have to run out there at the MCG

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<v Speaker 2>in front of eighty thousand fans next week. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have to fly over to a hostile Adelaide oval and

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<v Speaker 2>and fear the comments being thrown at me. But I

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<v Speaker 2>can imagine for a player that, you know, this is

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<v Speaker 2>their livelihood, this is a job, that a workplace that

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<v Speaker 2>provides income for their family and their future. Maybe it's

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<v Speaker 2>worth not saying anything and then having a football career,

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<v Speaker 2>successful football career, because if you don't say anything, I

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<v Speaker 2>can still and I'm still playing good football, and then

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<v Speaker 2>I can finish, retire and then sail off to the

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<v Speaker 2>sunset and go find my community.

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<v Speaker 1>So what would you say to them? Then? What would

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<v Speaker 1>you say to gay or bisexual men currently playing in

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<v Speaker 1>the AFL?

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<v Speaker 2>What I would say, and this is, you know, there

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<v Speaker 2>are currently games and bisexual men playing the AFL at

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<v Speaker 2>the moment and in the past. You know, I only

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<v Speaker 2>feel okay to I guess in quotations. Take this title.

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<v Speaker 2>This is not about me. It's not about Mitch Brown

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<v Speaker 2>being the first at all.

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<v Speaker 1>For me.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about sharing my experience so others can feel seen,

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<v Speaker 2>others can have a role model. I'm not famous. Previously,

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<v Speaker 2>many people wouldn't know that I'm played for ten years.

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<v Speaker 2>But to have someone and then maybe there will be

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<v Speaker 2>that second person, and then the third, maybe there'll be

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<v Speaker 2>a current player, and as that community grows, the empathy grows.

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<v Speaker 2>If this has an impact on one person, it's worth it.

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<v Speaker 2>It matters what are you.

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<v Speaker 1>Hoping That AFL says in response to hearing.

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<v Speaker 2>This interview, My advice to the AFL would be to

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<v Speaker 2>celebrate positive male role models. We celebrate the ones who

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<v Speaker 2>are successful in the eyes of whether it's wealth or

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<v Speaker 2>the amount of disposals you get on the weekend. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>CFL would be Let's celebrate the players. You know, they

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<v Speaker 2>may not be the most successful, but they are the

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<v Speaker 2>most important players in our community, the ones who are

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<v Speaker 2>walking down the street and portraying positive male role model.

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<v Speaker 2>All the time, do.

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<v Speaker 1>You think when there's players making homophobic slurs on the field,

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<v Speaker 1>like the one that we're talking about at the moment,

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<v Speaker 1>AzaC Grankin, as we head into a final series, do

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<v Speaker 1>you think that match bands is the tool that you

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<v Speaker 1>would be using to try and prevent these from happening

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<v Speaker 1>in the future.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought about this a lot, and you know, personally,

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't affect me or I don't feel strongly either way,

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<v Speaker 2>whether you know a player cops a five week band

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<v Speaker 2>or a one week or nothing. What matters to me

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<v Speaker 2>most is a sense of change, a movement created where

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<v Speaker 2>you can be anyone and feel like you can be

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<v Speaker 2>anyone and be safe in any environment here in Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>and I understand, like I've got two young boys that

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<v Speaker 2>I love very much, and as a parent you often

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<v Speaker 2>think about what's the future of for them and what

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<v Speaker 2>do you want for them? And you know they're a

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<v Speaker 2>sporting nation. The boys are going to play sport. All

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<v Speaker 2>that I care about is there no matter of environment

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<v Speaker 2>they are, whether it's in the group chat, whether it's

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<v Speaker 2>in their basketball or footy team, whether it's at school,

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<v Speaker 2>they feel safe and comfortable to be whoever they want.

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<v Speaker 2>To be.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you hope they think when one day they're

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<v Speaker 1>a bit young now probably to sit through the length

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<v Speaker 1>of this, but what do you hope that they think

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<v Speaker 1>about you when they watch this one day?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is one of my This is one

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<v Speaker 2>of my fears is you know, will they get bullied

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<v Speaker 2>when they get a bit older? You know what kind

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<v Speaker 2>of comments or articles will click on when they have

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<v Speaker 2>access to the internet. But overriding those thoughts, those negative thoughts,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, they were proud. Last night I shared with

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<v Speaker 2>the boy's mum, my ex wife, Shay, what I was

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<v Speaker 2>going to do. I mean that was really important for me,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was to be honest worried about her reaction.

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<v Speaker 2>Would she will be worried about the reaction of the

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<v Speaker 2>community and how that would affect our two boys who

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<v Speaker 2>are very young. And it surprised me. She reacted really well.

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<v Speaker 2>She sent me a text message actually this morning and

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<v Speaker 2>I'd like to share it says good luck this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so proud of you and right behind you all

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<v Speaker 2>the way. This will make the world a slightly better

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<v Speaker 2>place for our boys and young men in Australia, hopefully

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<v Speaker 2>old men too. This is living the values of the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of man. I want our boys to grow up

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<v Speaker 2>to be men that care and are proud of who

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<v Speaker 2>they are. You know what matters most is starting a

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<v Speaker 2>chain reaction, starting a movement. I mean, I'm in this position,

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<v Speaker 2>strong and comfortable to, as Gil McLaughlin says, take the

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<v Speaker 2>burden and if that, if someone needed to do it,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm in the space to do it. And I've done it.

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<v Speaker 2>And hopefully this now provides the safety, the comfort and

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<v Speaker 2>the space for the second person. And I mean, who's

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<v Speaker 2>counting anyway?

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<v Speaker 1>You're shown unbelievable wisdom, maturity, compassion in this chat. Leave

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<v Speaker 1>us with some guidance. What's the best way for footy

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<v Speaker 1>fans and for your loved ones, even the ones or

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<v Speaker 1>especially the ones that are learning this for the first time.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the best way for them to show up? From here?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm interested for you, but also for the sport and

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<v Speaker 1>for the AFL and for young men in general. What

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<v Speaker 1>can we do?

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<v Speaker 2>I've mentioned the power of uplifting role models, and I've

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned the power of empathy. I think that if you

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<v Speaker 2>can find it somewhere in your heart, whether you're sitting

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<v Speaker 2>there watching football on the weekend or you're sitting next

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<v Speaker 2>to your brother, to have a sense of empathy, that hey,

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<v Speaker 2>they might be that very person that might be suppressing feelings,

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<v Speaker 2>They might be that person that is feeling so trapped

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<v Speaker 2>and unhappy because they can't be who they are. And

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<v Speaker 2>if they can have even a little bit of sense

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<v Speaker 2>of hey, you know what, it's okay. That sense of empathy,

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<v Speaker 2>even just a fraction, I think it will make it

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<v Speaker 2>a huge difference.

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<v Speaker 1>Mitch, thank you for showing up today and for being

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<v Speaker 1>the man that you are.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for providing the space.

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<v Speaker 1>Sale, thanks for joining us today, and importantly thank you

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<v Speaker 1>to Mitch for telling his story. If you need support

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<v Speaker 1>or someone to talk to at any time, you can

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<v Speaker 1>contact Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen or queue life on

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<v Speaker 1>one eight hundred one eight four five two seven. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>speak to you on Monday. My name is Lily Maddon

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkottin woman from Gadigol Country.

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<v Speaker 2>The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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<v Speaker 2>the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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<v Speaker 2>all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay

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<v Speaker 2>our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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<v Speaker 2>past and present,