Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr
Speaker 1: the Order KERNI Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through.
Speaker 1: As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
Speaker 1: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
Speaker 1: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: She's on the Money.
Speaker 4: She's on the Money.
Speaker 5: Hello, and welcome to She's on the the podcast for
Speaker 5: the millennials who want financial freedom. I am super excited
Speaker 5: about our guests for this week and I know you
Speaker 5: guys are going to be two as she was highly requested.
Speaker 2: Honestly, you were the most requested one. Don't tell anybody else.
Speaker 2: Tory Dunlap is a money expert.
Speaker 5: She is the CEO and founder of her First one
Speaker 5: hundred K, a New York Times best selling author for
Speaker 5: her book Financial Feminist, host of the number one podcast
Speaker 5: for women in the US, Financial feminist, and because she
Speaker 5: hasn't done enough, was named a.
Speaker 2: Forbes thirty Under thirty.
Speaker 5: Tory has centered her career around her passion for women.
Speaker 2: Taking control of their finances.
Speaker 5: She wants to break down the stigma around men overseeing
Speaker 5: finances in a household and empower women to master their
Speaker 5: money and build a life.
Speaker 2: That they love. Tory, Hi, welcome to She's on the Money.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me excited. How did it be here?
Speaker 5: I am also so excited to have you. Like we
Speaker 5: were just talking off air, like your technically Victoria. I'm
Speaker 5: technically Victoria. My nickname is Tory. Your nickname is Tory.
Speaker 5: My team were actually laughing because like I also have
Speaker 5: a podcast, You have a podcast.
Speaker 2: I wrote a book. You wrote it.
Speaker 3: You're the cooler version of me. You're the Australian horder
Speaker 3: cooler version of me.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, if like that doesn't even count.
Speaker 5: But like I'm like the small fish Australian version, and
Speaker 5: I'm always like, holy.
Speaker 2: Great, oh Torri, dum laugh. I'm so excited for this.
Speaker 3: No, I have heard so many amazing things about your show.
Speaker 3: Folks who listen to financial feminists also listened to Shoes
Speaker 3: on the money and vice versa. So I'm just really
Speaker 3: excited to be here.
Speaker 2: So me too.
Speaker 5: We had like a podcast deep dive with a team
Speaker 5: from iHeart a little while ago, and they did this
Speaker 5: thing called like podcast Neighborhoods, and they like show you
Speaker 5: where your listeners live, like not physically, but like in
Speaker 5: other podcast land and yours and mine had.
Speaker 2: A really beautiful intersect. But when I put it out.
Speaker 5: To the community, I was like, I'm going to the US.
Speaker 5: Who do you want me to get into touch with?
Speaker 5: Who do you want me to interview? And I shouldn't
Speaker 5: have even bothered asking because ninety percent of the answers
Speaker 5: were like, Tori done that her first one hundred K,
Speaker 5: the girl who does financial feminist, And I was like,
Speaker 5: they're all the same person.
Speaker 2: Guys have some diversity.
Speaker 5: But to say my community are obsessed with you as
Speaker 5: an understatement, So for those of you who maybe haven't
Speaker 5: heard of her first one hundred k, why did you
Speaker 5: start it?
Speaker 2: Tell me about you? Who are you, what do you do?
Speaker 2: Why do you do it? My friend?
Speaker 3: Sure? So I graduated college in twenty sixteen and I was,
Speaker 3: you know, majored in marketing and theater, and the plan
Speaker 3: was to work my way up the corporate ladder as
Speaker 3: a social media marketer. I was gonna stop the pavement
Speaker 3: and have a cute little briefcase and wear a pencil skirt.
Speaker 3: And that's how I know it's a fantasy, is I've
Speaker 3: never worn a pencil skirt in my.
Speaker 2: Life, and they're so uncomfortable. As someone who has, you
Speaker 2: don't want this, Oh they're terrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that was the image I had for myself,
Speaker 3: as I think a lot of women in their twenties do.
Speaker 3: It's it's like, I'm going to take on the world,
Speaker 3: take on this city. And then I got into my
Speaker 3: first corporate job and was like, no, this is awful.
Speaker 3: I don't want to do this. I don't want to
Speaker 3: make some straight white man. I don't respect who's already rich,
Speaker 3: even richer. I don't want to have to sit at
Speaker 3: a desk, even if my work's already done. And it
Speaker 3: was just like the rose colored goggles came off really quick.
Speaker 3: Of course, we know in the United States that not
Speaker 3: soon after I graduated college, we had a presidential election
Speaker 3: that did not go I think as a lot of
Speaker 3: us expected it to go. So I'm twenty two and
Speaker 3: I'm coming into adulthood or really into womanhood in a
Speaker 3: very different country than I expect, and I'm starting to
Speaker 3: ask myself the kind of questions like, yeah, what kind
Speaker 3: of person are you? What do you stand for? And honestly,
Speaker 3: the election of Donald Trump kind of radicalized me. And
Speaker 3: I was the friend all of my friends were coming
Speaker 3: to for financial advice and guidance. I had a really
Speaker 3: good financial education for my parents, and I just thought
Speaker 3: that was normal because I didn't know anything different. I
Speaker 3: thought everybody knows not to overspend on credit cards, everybody
Speaker 3: knows how to save money, everybody knows how to navigate
Speaker 3: this financial system. And of course I realized very quickly
Speaker 3: that that wasn't the case, especially wasn't the case for women.
Speaker 3: So I'm running this nine to five job in marketing,
Speaker 3: and then I start a blog in twenty sixteen on
Speaker 3: the side that later becomes her first hundred K. I'm
Speaker 3: talking about money, educating women about money. I start doing
Speaker 3: financial coaching, and then in twenty nineteen, based on the
Speaker 3: name though, you know, her first hundred K was my
Speaker 3: own hundred K journey, me attempting to save one hundred
Speaker 3: thousand dollars at age twenty five. I successfully achieved that
Speaker 3: goal about four years ago, almost to the day, went
Speaker 3: to Europe to celebrate. I got the call for Good
Speaker 3: Morning America to be on one of two very very big,
Speaker 3: sexy like morning shows that are just like career making.
Speaker 3: So got the call for GMA at a pub in London,
Speaker 3: run Blue Home, did the interview, quit my job three
Speaker 3: weeks later and have never looked back. And you did
Speaker 3: the kind intro and bio of me. But we're now
Speaker 3: a community of over four million people. We have a podcast,
Speaker 3: we have a book. We fight the patriarchy by making
Speaker 3: women rich. We have a team of fifteen people.
Speaker 2: Fifteen people.
Speaker 3: It's crazy and it's just my life's work. That's what
Speaker 3: I believe I was put on this earth to do
Speaker 3: is educate women about money, but also talk about how
Speaker 3: money affects women differently. Because the truth is is like
Speaker 3: I don't think we have any sort of equality for
Speaker 3: any marginalized group until we have financial equality. And in addition,
Speaker 3: a financial education in a capitalist, disenfranchised system, that is
Speaker 3: your best form of protest is understanding money, having financial standing,
Speaker 3: a financial foundation. That is the way we get ahead
Speaker 3: as women. If you're a person of color, if you're
Speaker 3: a member of the LGBTQ community, if you're disabled, like
Speaker 3: if you're a member of a marginalized group, having money
Speaker 3: means having choices, It means having freedom, and it means
Speaker 3: that you get to show up in a disenfranchised system
Speaker 3: as the fullest version of yourself and the fullest version
Speaker 3: in your community. So that's what I believe I was
Speaker 3: put on this earth to do is fight for women's
Speaker 3: financial rights.
Speaker 5: And the way you talk about it, I am a
Speaker 5: thousand percent convinced you're not one person ever is going
Speaker 5: to doubt that you are obviously insanely impressive. But one
Speaker 5: question I really like asking people when I talk to them,
Speaker 5: especially if I, you know, really admire what they.
Speaker 2: Do, is are you proud of what you do?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 5: Have you had time to sit down and be like, damn, girl,
Speaker 5: I did that? Like are you what does that look like?
Speaker 3: I love that question. I will be honest with you,
Speaker 3: and I imagine you feel very similar. It's always like
Speaker 3: what's next, Like it's like, Okay, a cool I did that,
Speaker 3: And then you know, I take maybe like an evening
Speaker 3: or sometimes even a couple days, so like celebrate it.
Speaker 3: But then I'm always like what's next, which I feel
Speaker 3: like is not the healthiest thing to do.
Speaker 5: No, but I can completely resonate with that, like I've
Speaker 5: got stuff to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like we got the New York Times, which like
Speaker 3: I worked so hard for and our team works so
Speaker 3: hard for. Like I don't think I've ever pushed myself
Speaker 3: harder to get anything, and then I did it and
Speaker 3: I felt so good. But like, your life doesn't change necessarily,
Speaker 3: Like yes, you get to say like I'm a New
Speaker 3: York Times bestseller, and like that is something I get
Speaker 3: to say for the rest of my life. And like,
Speaker 3: in theory, it increases book sales, but like my mom
Speaker 3: literally called me and she was like, so, like what
Speaker 3: does that mean? And I'm like, I get a sticker
Speaker 3: on the book, and like I get this like really
Speaker 3: big accomplishment, But it doesn't like guarantee like you know,
Speaker 3: more money or more opportunities. It's just kind of like
Speaker 3: you have to find fulfillment for yourself. And I've learned
Speaker 3: over the past couple of years, especially as like my
Speaker 3: goalpost of success kept moving that I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: unless I sit and be excited about all of this,
Speaker 3: it's never going to feel like enough. That was a
Speaker 3: really philosophical answer. I love very easy question, but yes,
Speaker 3: I feel very accomplished. I feel very accomplished of our team.
Speaker 3: And most of all, as cheesy as it sounds like,
Speaker 3: we get messages now probably every five minutes from a
Speaker 3: woman somewhere that is, you know, I paid off my
Speaker 3: credit card debt, I negotiated a twenty percent raise. I
Speaker 3: just have my first one thousand dollars in my emergency fund.
Speaker 3: You know the best part of it is it's always
Speaker 3: a comma, and then after it's and I feel so
Speaker 3: much more confident in every aspect of my life now,
Speaker 3: And like, that's the feeling I want for every single woman.
Speaker 3: I want her to show up as her fullest version
Speaker 3: of herself in any space, in any relationship, in any format,
Speaker 3: because she doesn't have to say yes if she doesn't
Speaker 3: want to say yes, and she doesn't have to say
Speaker 3: no if she doesn't want to say no. And she
Speaker 3: also can show up bigger in every aspect of her
Speaker 3: life knowing that she's financially taken care of.
Speaker 5: I'm so excited about that, like exactly the same, And
Speaker 5: I feel like you and I are very on the
Speaker 5: same page. When it comes to that, because in this space,
Speaker 5: like you might do really cool things. And you said
Speaker 5: your mum called you and said, what does that mean.
Speaker 5: One of my family members called me and said, I
Speaker 5: didn't realize you was so rich. When I got named
Speaker 5: one of the Forbes thirty under thirty, because like they
Speaker 5: didn't know enough about Forbes and they thought that I
Speaker 5: was on the reach list, and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, I wish I was on the racial list.
Speaker 5: Because obviously Forbes is quite American and in Australia it's
Speaker 5: not as big. So when I got named on that,
Speaker 5: I was like, the this is a slave for me,
Speaker 5: but like, I'm really sorry. It does not mean I
Speaker 5: am a trillionaire. So sorry, but I really resonate with that.
Speaker 5: And I think that in our space one of the
Speaker 5: reasons why that happens is there.
Speaker 2: Is still more work to do. There are still.
Speaker 5: More women that aren't financially literate and deserve to be.
Speaker 5: And I think you can't just look at one thing
Speaker 5: and be like, oh, well I've made it. Well we haven't,
Speaker 5: because like I would love to think and I'm sure
Speaker 5: you're very similar, Like my job will be done when
Speaker 5: I am redundant, and people like Victoria, why are you
Speaker 5: talking about financial literacy? We all have financial literacy.
Speaker 2: That is so dumb. Like I would love people to.
Speaker 5: Think that my job wasn't necessary, and I just think
Speaker 5: it is so necessary because there are still people that
Speaker 5: need help. And as you said before, all of those
Speaker 5: communities that slip through the cracks, they need the voice.
Speaker 2: That you have, and you do it so well. Do
Speaker 2: you cry a lot when you get those messages, because
Speaker 2: like I can't deal with them.
Speaker 3: It's very very kind. We got one, hmm, it's probably
Speaker 3: about two months ago. Now we get so frequently. It's
Speaker 3: just so kind. This one really hit me though. It
Speaker 3: was like I am eighteen. I was houseless. It was
Speaker 3: not even thinking about college for the first time. I
Speaker 3: like have a roof over my head. I have like
Speaker 3: something to live for, Like I can't even get through
Speaker 3: without like getting a little choked out, but like I
Speaker 3: have something to live for now. And I was just
Speaker 3: like okay, like it was wolf, like, wow, I love it.
Speaker 3: That's why you do it. That one was especially just
Speaker 3: like hit me where it hurts. But yeah, it's like
Speaker 3: what I researched over and over for my book. And
Speaker 3: I actually just got off another interview where we talked
Speaker 3: about this is it's like there's so many aspects of
Speaker 3: our world, like money aside, finance aside, that are just
Speaker 3: so committed to women depriving themselves, depleting themselves, being the
Speaker 3: like skeleton version of themselves in order for other people
Speaker 3: to be comfortable. And I both mean that in an
Speaker 3: altruistic way of like we sacrifice so much so that
Speaker 3: other people can have it, but also like in the
Speaker 3: more manipulative way, like women are shrinking or made to
Speaker 3: be small so that the patriarchy can stand. And I
Speaker 3: want a world where every single person, but especially every
Speaker 3: single woman, has joy and pleasure and ease and stability
Speaker 3: and safety. And that's what money can buy you. I
Speaker 3: say this in my book, But like there's this narrative
Speaker 3: that money can't buy you happiness. Like money can buy
Speaker 3: you happiness. It can buy you all of those things.
Speaker 3: It can buy you safety and a clean, safe apartment
Speaker 3: and a good car that isn't going to break down
Speaker 3: on you, and a vacation to recharge and escape from
Speaker 3: a job that deprives you, like money can buy you happiness.
Speaker 3: And these narratives exist to make you believe that you
Speaker 3: are not worthy of all of the beautiful things in life,
Speaker 3: all of the beautiful, joyful things. And in addition, when
Speaker 3: you are stable and safe and content, you get to
Speaker 3: then change the status quo and the narrative for everybody else.
Speaker 3: This whole world exists in this patriarchal, capitalist way to
Speaker 3: deprive ourselves of any joy or again like limit the
Speaker 3: fullest versions of ourselves to make other people comfortable, to
Speaker 3: fit into society's version of ourselves. And these messages are
Speaker 3: the coolest thing for me because again it shows It's
Speaker 3: like when you get your financial shit together, everything else
Speaker 3: opens up for you.
Speaker 2: And that's what's most exciting because I look at you,
Speaker 2: know you are massive on TikTok adore like the fact
Speaker 2: that you show up so consistently like girl, that is
Speaker 2: a fait in itself, Like I cannot. I am so envious.
Speaker 2: When I look at your content, I'm like this woman,
Speaker 2: she is committed.
Speaker 3: Oh it's exhausting, but that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 2: Oh, I can imagine. I do like one TikTok a month,
Speaker 2: and I'm like over and out, babes bye.
Speaker 5: But what you do so well is advocate for women
Speaker 5: but also teach women to advocate for themselves. And there's
Speaker 5: a quote that I love and I say.
Speaker 2: All the time in my community. In my community is
Speaker 2: so bored of me saying it.
Speaker 5: But like a rising kidlifts soulships and you do this
Speaker 5: so well. And I feel like for the longest time,
Speaker 5: media committle aged white men have had their audacity, and
Speaker 5: their audacity is meant that we don't have a voice,
Speaker 5: and we don't have a place. And when we finally
Speaker 5: realize that we.
Speaker 2: Probably should, we don't know how to advocate for ourselves
Speaker 2: or stand up or even stand up for those around us.
Speaker 2: Where do we start? What do we do?
Speaker 3: I think in terms of just personal finance in general,
Speaker 3: there's a reason I laid my book out like this.
Speaker 3: The first chapter my book, Financial Feminists, is about the
Speaker 3: emotions of money, because a lot of our colleagues literally
Speaker 3: just start with, like what's the budgeting method? Or like
Speaker 3: learn how to set financial goals, and like those things
Speaker 3: are helpful, but they can't happen until you do some
Speaker 3: emotional unpacking, like money is not about math. I wish
Speaker 3: more people understood this, because again, my not so conspiracy
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory is that women have been told that money
Speaker 3: is about math. But we were also told, at least
Speaker 3: in the United States, growing up as women, that like
Speaker 3: girls were bad at math and that boys were good
Speaker 3: at math.
Speaker 5: Oh, of course women are the worst at math according
Speaker 5: to our education system as well.
Speaker 3: Right, So I think that's mostly a narrative that we're told.
Speaker 3: And then we're also told that personal finance is about
Speaker 3: like Excel spreadsheets and mathematical equations, and it's actually not.
Speaker 3: It's about your emotions, it's about your psychology, it's about
Speaker 3: how you feel. If you can understand what your brain
Speaker 3: and body do before you make a purchase, if you
Speaker 3: can understand what your brain and body do before making
Speaker 3: some sort of financial decision, you can start to unpack
Speaker 3: a lot of how to be better with money. But
Speaker 3: only when you start to figure out this is my
Speaker 3: mindset around money, This is what I've been believing about money,
Speaker 3: just like we were talking about before. One of the
Speaker 3: narratives I talk about in the first chapter is it's
Speaker 3: like you've been told that money can't buy you happiness.
Speaker 3: You've also been told that you shouldn't talk about money.
Speaker 3: Why have you been told you shouldn't talk about money
Speaker 3: to keep you underpaid and overworked. Like that's it. That's
Speaker 3: why we don't talk about money. We are more likely
Speaker 3: statistically to talk about sex, death, politics, religion, any other
Speaker 3: uncomfortable topic before we'll talk about money. And the reason
Speaker 3: behind all of that is it's rooted in shame. It's
Speaker 3: rooted in shame, it's rooted in fear, it's rooted in anxiety,
Speaker 3: it's in judgment as opposed to, like I was saying before,
Speaker 3: the joy and the stability and the ease and the safety.
Speaker 3: So the first thing you really have to do is
Speaker 3: you have to start understanding what narratives am I believing
Speaker 3: about money? What narratives am I believing about the word rich?
Speaker 3: What narratives am I believing about my ability to make
Speaker 3: money or my ability to manage my money on my own?
Speaker 3: And the exercise I give in the book is to
Speaker 3: think about the first money memory you have. What is
Speaker 3: the first time you remember thinking about money? For me,
Speaker 3: I was a theater kid, right. I was saving my
Speaker 3: quarters in an Altoid's tin to like go see Annie
Speaker 3: the Musical because my mom taught me if I wanted
Speaker 3: to go, I needed to save my money.
Speaker 2: That's also such a wholesome musical to want to see.
Speaker 3: It's so oh I loved Annie. That was my dream
Speaker 3: was so like being Annie someday.
Speaker 2: So the altoids tan. It got filled, Yes, it got filled.
Speaker 3: But here's the deal. It was quarters and pennies and
Speaker 3: the ticket probably cost twenty five bucks and I did
Speaker 3: not have that. My parents were gonna pay the whole time.
Speaker 3: Like I was five, I had no like earned income source.
Speaker 3: But I saved my money because I wanted it right,
Speaker 3: And so I was being taught by my parents, if
Speaker 3: you want something, you have to say for it, and like,
Speaker 3: that's how this goes. When I ask people what their
Speaker 3: first money memory is, and I would love to hear yours,
Speaker 3: most of them are not as positive, right it is
Speaker 3: I showed up at school and realized I didn't have
Speaker 3: enough money for school lunch, or I saw my parents
Speaker 3: fight about money, or my first money memory was realizing
Speaker 3: we just didn't have any of it. And what sort
Speaker 3: of beliefs then did you start to build around money
Speaker 3: based on how your parents manage money, based on the
Speaker 3: behaviors and the outlook of your childhood growing up? Right?
Speaker 3: I had another person who told me, oh, well, you know,
Speaker 3: we would go over to my friend's house and they
Speaker 3: were really really rich, but they were terrible people, and
Speaker 3: so I thought, rich people are terrible people, like people
Speaker 3: who have money are bad people, Like money makes you
Speaker 3: a bad person. So that's the start. And it's really
Speaker 3: mess right, like feels like therapy like it's.
Speaker 5: It does, and it's overwhelming because it means admitting something
Speaker 5: about yourself.
Speaker 2: We talk about it all the time in our community.
Speaker 5: When I started my podcast, I literally started it because
Speaker 5: I had a Facebook group and I really wanted the
Speaker 5: information out there because people, as you know, they always
Speaker 5: start with the.
Speaker 2: First same few questions.
Speaker 5: And I was like, you know what, if I just
Speaker 5: do twelve recordings, I will have mastered it, Tori, I
Speaker 5: would have done it, Like that's all I'll ever need.
Speaker 5: Five hundred episodes later, I'm like still being.
Speaker 2: Like, I still have more shit to talk about.
Speaker 5: But my first episode was called money Stories, and you
Speaker 5: need to understand where you came from and what your
Speaker 5: money story is, what you think, you feel, you act,
Speaker 5: you behave around money, because that wasn't your fault.
Speaker 2: Like you grew up around money with these preconceived ideas
Speaker 2: of how they worked and what they looked like because
Speaker 2: that's what was ingrained in you, and the second you
Speaker 2: realize that, that defines your current thought pattern. But the
Speaker 2: beautiful thing about money stories is you can create your
Speaker 2: own from here, like we can change it, we can
Speaker 2: do whatever we want to do. Like that's my favorite thing.
Speaker 5: And when I think about money, I had the very
Speaker 5: beautiful experience of having a dad who was an accountant.
Speaker 2: He loved telling us about money and budgeting and what
Speaker 2: that meant. But also I was really bad with money
Speaker 2: because sometimes even with the best support around you, you're
Speaker 2: not ready to hear it. Do you think I wanted
Speaker 2: my accountant dad to run my first job? I was like,
Speaker 2: why are you telling me?
Speaker 3: Dad?
Speaker 2: To save ten percent of my income always?
Speaker 5: And then it'll compound over time. Ill, don't you realize
Speaker 5: I have to go to the movies?
Speaker 2: Like, are you not understanding that after school at four o'clock,
Speaker 2: the girls from my school are going to go to McDonald's.
Speaker 2: They're going to get some ice cream, then they're going
Speaker 2: to walk to the movies. I need to be involved
Speaker 2: in that, don't you understand?
Speaker 5: So I feel like it's such a cool thing to
Speaker 5: be able to reflect on it. But I think that
Speaker 5: so many people they judge themselves and then define themselves
Speaker 5: by what they thought a money belief and behavior was,
Speaker 5: when in reality, like, if you have limiting beliefs about money,
Speaker 5: we can fix them. But if you have them and
Speaker 5: you hold on to them, we can't actually create the
Speaker 5: life you deserve, Like, you deserve so much more, like
Speaker 5: and I feel like I just always want to scoop
Speaker 5: up my community and be like, you.
Speaker 2: Deserve so much more, and I want to give it
Speaker 2: to you. But first you've got to take the first step,
Speaker 2: Like I can't pull your head out of the sand
Speaker 2: for you. You've got to do it. How do we
Speaker 2: pull our heads out of the sand? What do we do? Like,
Speaker 2: you know, what's the first step for standing up and
Speaker 2: being like, no, actually, Tory, you're right, I do deserve more.
Speaker 2: How do we do that?
Speaker 5: Because I don't have or I do, let's be honest,
Speaker 5: And I think you've got it too. I definitely have
Speaker 5: the audacity of a mediocre, middle aged white man. And
Speaker 5: when I step into your shoes they fit really well
Speaker 5: and keep doing it.
Speaker 2: But how does everybody else do that? When that is
Speaker 2: really scary.
Speaker 3: It's really funny, you say, pull your head out of
Speaker 3: the sand. Because after chapter one, chapter two is what
Speaker 3: I call the Ostrich effects, which is your head in
Speaker 3: the sand, acting your problems don't exist.
Speaker 5: What is that a thing to ostridches bury their heads
Speaker 5: in this We don't have ostridges.
Speaker 3: Actually they don't. That's a whole other thing. But they
Speaker 3: were believed too, which is why we call it the
Speaker 3: Ostrich effect. I actually do start I think chapter two
Speaker 3: with facts about ostriches. I literally I'm like, Hi, before
Speaker 3: we get into the rest of this chapter, we're gonna
Speaker 3: talk about ostriches have two stomachs. Do you know that? No,
Speaker 3: I didn't, something I learned researching my book. You think
Speaker 3: it's a finance book. Not it's Ostrich.
Speaker 2: I'm here for it. I love animals and money. You
Speaker 2: was selling me on this.
Speaker 3: But yeah, actually, that's a whole other thing, because I
Speaker 3: actually did google because I was curious, do ostrich just
Speaker 3: bury their head in the sand, And there was like
Speaker 3: this whole like academic article where it's like, for many
Speaker 3: many years I would believe to have buried the head them,
Speaker 3: but that they actually don't. Anyway, So they call it
Speaker 3: the Ostrich effect, at least in the United States. With personal finance.
Speaker 3: It's like bury head in the sand, acting your problems
Speaker 3: don't exist. The good thing about that it temporarily feels
Speaker 3: good because you're just like I will handle that later.
Speaker 3: Investing too complicated, I'll learn it later. Paint off my
Speaker 3: debt too foolish, shame and fear, and I don't want
Speaker 3: to log into my debt, so we'll do that later.
Speaker 3: We see this especially again in television shows. I mentioned
Speaker 3: this also in my book of like Nick from New
Speaker 3: Girl he has a you know, box of bills in
Speaker 3: his closet. Andy in April from Parks and Recreation have
Speaker 3: all of their bills frozen in a freezer like this
Speaker 3: is a very common trope because I think a lot
Speaker 3: of people deal with this. So the Ostrich effect totally normal,
Speaker 3: because again, the narrative that you've been taught is shame
Speaker 3: shame about your money. You should feel ashamed of your
Speaker 3: past choices, you should feel ashamed that you don't know
Speaker 3: more about money. And so rather than make a decision
Speaker 3: that might be wrong, we're going to make no decision
Speaker 3: at all. And I see this so many times with women.
Speaker 3: Is we get in this analysis paralysis. We feel like
Speaker 3: we need to make the perfect choice. So we either
Speaker 3: spend years researching because it gives us the feeling of doing.
Speaker 2: Something, we're taking steps right.
Speaker 3: It's like I just need to google this one more thing,
Speaker 3: and then when I've done that, I will make the decision.
Speaker 3: But then suddenly you're three hours into a Google rabbit hole.
Speaker 3: So the analysis paralysis is real. And then also again
Speaker 3: just the shame. So the first thing we have to
Speaker 3: do to actually like start doing actionable things about our
Speaker 3: money is get comfortable being uncomfortable. And again, this is
Speaker 3: not about math. It's about your emotions. It's about releasing
Speaker 3: any shame in judgment and saying, you know what, I'm
Speaker 3: going to look at this like I'm an anthropologist in
Speaker 3: my own life. Oh interesting, I bought that pair of
Speaker 3: shoes I didn't need and didn't want because I had
Speaker 3: a terrible day at work. Interesting. That's it. You are
Speaker 3: just observing your behavior and observing what's going on without
Speaker 3: any sort of emotion loaded into it. No judgment, no shame,
Speaker 3: no fear, no anxiety. Same thing with your debt. You're
Speaker 3: literally gonna start totaling your accounts. Where does the debt live,
Speaker 3: what is the interest rate? How much debt do I have.
Speaker 3: You can do this for all of your credit cards,
Speaker 3: your student loans, your mortgage if you have one. That's
Speaker 3: a whole other conversation. I don't know how it is
Speaker 3: in Australia. You can't buy a house here.
Speaker 5: Oh no, you can't buy a house here. I did
Speaker 5: a presentation the other day, Tory. You would have heard
Speaker 5: of the like avocado fallacy right where, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the avocado test.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if you buy less avocado toast, you're gonna
Speaker 2: be able to afford a house. And I did this
Speaker 2: like presentation at a university about like the property market,
Speaker 2: and I was like, sit down, let's go back to
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five. In nineteen seventy five, you.
Speaker 5: Could buy a house and it was worth four times
Speaker 5: your annual income. Today in Australia, to buy a house
Speaker 5: it is twenty seven times your annual income. If our
Speaker 5: incomes had kept up with inflation in Australia, your average
Speaker 5: Australian income would be one hundred and sixty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 5: But it is not, my friend, the average Australian income
Speaker 5: is sixty five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: And you'all out here is thinking that we can buy property.
Speaker 5: We can't buy property because the economy is cooked.
Speaker 3: So the biggest thing is like starting to get comfortab
Speaker 3: being uncomfortable of listing out your debt, listing out if
Speaker 3: you do have savings, where does that live, and then
Speaker 3: you can start making a plan. We can't make a
Speaker 3: plan till we know the lay of the land. Yes
Speaker 3: I'm a poet, didn't even know it. But like we
Speaker 3: can't start putting a budget together, we can't start setting
Speaker 3: goals until we've worked through our emotions number one and
Speaker 3: started to understand that and started to understand the narratives
Speaker 3: we've been believing about money. And then two, we have
Speaker 3: to understand what is our current financial picture, even if
Speaker 3: it's messy, even if it's really anxiety inducing, because you
Speaker 3: can't start making steps forward until you know what's going on.
Speaker 3: So listing out your debts, listing out your accounts, listening
Speaker 3: out your interest rates. If you don't know your interest rates,
Speaker 3: that's a great place to start start calling people. Look
Speaker 3: at your terms and conditions, Like, you have to understand
Speaker 3: how all of this works before we can then start
Speaker 3: making decisions about it.
Speaker 5: I agree, I just feel like that's the most empowering
Speaker 5: thing you can do. And the second you start doing that,
Speaker 5: you get really inquisitive and you start looking at things
Speaker 5: and you start talking to your girlfriends, like you might
Speaker 5: be talking to your girlfriends or work about it and
Speaker 5: you're like, oh, this is interesting, and you're right. It's
Speaker 5: picking up that piece and going no judgment, no shame,
Speaker 5: no anything, just going, well, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Actually that really helps me to understand a little bit
Speaker 2: more about me. And like, you're the best person to
Speaker 2: understand the most about you, and you deserve to know
Speaker 2: about you, So let's keep doing that.
Speaker 5: I feel like it's the same and like everybody, even
Speaker 5: people like you, have probably gone through that.
Speaker 2: We're like far out.
Speaker 5: I didn't realize I made that money decision because of
Speaker 5: this emotion or this outcome or how that works. And
Speaker 5: I think that by just talking about it, even just
Speaker 5: consuming content online, that's more relative. Like you don't have
Speaker 5: to go straight out and start talking about your income
Speaker 5: to people if that makes you uncomfortable, like start small,
Speaker 5: but start stepping in the right direction, because money shouldn't
Speaker 5: be something that we feel ashamed to talk about. I
Speaker 5: look at not just your content, but content of American
Speaker 5: creators and I'm always in awe because I'm always like,
Speaker 5: oh my gosh, the confidence they have, like and the
Speaker 5: way that they often support each other is so crazy cool.
Speaker 5: And in Australia we have this thing called tall Poppy
Speaker 5: syndrome where you know, the second someone's really successful, they
Speaker 5: feel like, Okay, now we're going to cut you down.
Speaker 5: Like it's as though in Australia and I'm going to
Speaker 5: get in trouble for saying this, but I also don't
Speaker 5: really care.
Speaker 2: It's almost like.
Speaker 5: People want you to do well, but they never want
Speaker 5: you to do better than them, And the second that
Speaker 5: you look like you're doing better than them, well, it's
Speaker 5: time to rip them to shreds now. I have seen
Speaker 5: it time and time again in comment sections of people
Speaker 5: being like, what would you know? How do you do this?
Speaker 5: What does that look like? How do you, as a
Speaker 5: woman in a country like the USA deal with this?
Speaker 5: Because I feel like your political system, your you know
Speaker 5: everything system is working so hard against your success. How
Speaker 5: does tall Poppy syndrome affect you? How are you overcoming that?
Speaker 5: How do we seek inspiration? And from that it's like
Speaker 5: women supporting women, But then it's like the government against
Speaker 5: the women.
Speaker 2: How do you deal with this? How do you still
Speaker 2: not go to sleep every night and cry?
Speaker 3: Y'all can't see me, but I'm literally like my neck
Speaker 3: is breaking from just like nodding my head emphatically. So
Speaker 3: many things here. First, like we were talking about before
Speaker 3: society is built so that women hate themselves.
Speaker 5: I mean that makes a lot of people a lot
Speaker 5: of money. So like this story checks out, we.
Speaker 3: Want to talk about just like the diet industry is
Speaker 3: a multi billion dollar industry that's.
Speaker 2: A women's roman empire. I'm convinced, oh totally, and is
Speaker 2: selling you on a complete myth.
Speaker 3: Diets don't work. We know this. Ninety eight ninety nine
Speaker 3: percent of diets don't work because the more you tell
Speaker 3: me I can't have fried chicken, the more I want
Speaker 3: fried chicken. Like that doesn't work. And deprivation does not work.
Speaker 3: Like it's not about willpower, it's not about like how
Speaker 3: badly you want it, it's literal psychology. It does not work.
Speaker 3: And that's the perfect example of where sold this lie
Speaker 3: that you need to be as thin as possible, you
Speaker 3: need to take up the least amount of space possible
Speaker 3: and hate yourself doing it. Cut out everything that brings
Speaker 3: you joy, cut out anything that makes you happy and
Speaker 3: deprive yourself in order to get this thing that you
Speaker 3: think you really want, but you don't want it. You've
Speaker 3: just been told you should want it. Perfect example of
Speaker 3: what's going on with every single industry, with every single
Speaker 3: space is when you show up as the fullest version
Speaker 3: of yourself, inevitably what happens is the patriarchy feels threatened
Speaker 3: by you. Again, I'm gonna sound like a broken record.
Speaker 3: I talk about this in my book even in Childhood,
Speaker 3: like if we bring it really really far back. I
Speaker 3: did a lot of research around the sort of narratives
Speaker 3: or sort of like child rearing that we do. And
Speaker 3: I'm going to use the gender binary here for ease.
Speaker 3: But like four boys and four girls. Boys and even
Speaker 3: the toys they are given are taught self reliance. They're
Speaker 3: taught innovation, They're taught how to build right like Legos truck.
Speaker 3: These are what we give boys. We are telling them
Speaker 3: that their value to society is and how they're contributing
Speaker 3: in terms of their brains. Right, they're smart, they're again
Speaker 3: self actualized. How can you show up again? It's the
Speaker 3: biggest version of yourself and that's what we're teaching boys.
Speaker 3: What do we give girls?
Speaker 2: We give them toy ironing boards.
Speaker 3: We give them dolls, we give them bridal veils, we
Speaker 3: give them playhouses. Right, this is not me trying to
Speaker 3: cancel Barbie. I love the Barbie movie.
Speaker 2: No, no, we love Barbie.
Speaker 5: But we want Barbie and the blocks so we can
Speaker 5: build the Barbie dreamhouse ourselves.
Speaker 2: Like, we're not canceling Barbie.
Speaker 5: Those things are fine, but stop telling me that I
Speaker 5: have to play house in a house that's already made,
Speaker 5: because there's no possible way I could have built that myself.
Speaker 3: We give a two year old girl another child to
Speaker 3: take care of, That's gross. We are telling girls that
Speaker 3: their value is in how much they give of themselves.
Speaker 3: How altruistic are you? How much are you sacrificing yourself
Speaker 3: to care for other people? Now? I am really beautifully
Speaker 3: glad that women are taught selflessness. I am not mad
Speaker 3: about that. I think that's a beautiful trait. But the
Speaker 3: issue is that we're not teaching boys the same thing.
Speaker 3: So what happens as we age, what happens as we
Speaker 3: grow up and we start becoming more financially confident, we
Speaker 3: start showing up as the fullest version of ourselves. We
Speaker 3: start talking about accomplishments, we start progressing in our careers
Speaker 3: and in our relationships and in our money. Our altruism
Speaker 3: gets weaponized. There's a weaponization of the altruism that is
Speaker 3: taught to us because you're no longer controllable when you
Speaker 3: have money, when you have agency, when you have stability,
Speaker 3: you're no longer controllable. And the patriarchy panics. They go,
Speaker 3: We're not gonna be able to control her anymore. We're
Speaker 3: going to cut her down. We're going to tell her, actually,
Speaker 3: you bragging about your accomplishments is really tacky. We're going
Speaker 3: to tell her that, m you know what, I don't
Speaker 3: know how much you spent on that, but that feels
Speaker 3: like a waste of your money and it could have
Speaker 3: gone to these other things that I'm deeming are a
Speaker 3: better use from a random person on the internet. Right,
Speaker 3: the patriarchy tells you that your altruism is the number
Speaker 3: one priority. Now this isn't pours your money and be selfish.
Speaker 3: I want to be so clear.
Speaker 2: Oh no, absolutely not, None of that is true.
Speaker 3: I'm anti capitalist over here. It's not about that. But
Speaker 3: it is so interesting that when women are successful, the
Speaker 3: patriarchy panics. It weaponizes our altruism against us. But we
Speaker 3: absolutely worship men with money. We worship men with success.
Speaker 3: We worship men with good careers and Rolex watches and
Speaker 3: a nice suit like we worship that, And especially in
Speaker 3: the United States and a very individualistic culture, we worship that.
Speaker 3: So if you, as an individual are show gowing up
Speaker 3: as the fullest version of yourself and pissing people off, great, solid.
Speaker 2: And if they don't like it, you know what they
Speaker 2: can do. They can go find less.
Speaker 3: If you are showing up in a relationship and a
Speaker 3: person feels threatened, typically a man. If you're dating men,
Speaker 3: like that's not the person for you. If you are
Speaker 3: showing up at a job and they don't like that
Speaker 3: you are succeeding, or that your coworkers don't like it
Speaker 3: you're succeeding. Okay, great, too bad, like the biggest thing
Speaker 3: we can do as individuals. Again, I mean it sounds
Speaker 3: like a broken record. We started this the same way,
Speaker 3: but like it's the fullest version of yourself. Is a
Speaker 3: form of protest against a system that constantly demands you
Speaker 3: play small. So with tall, poppy syndrome. I know because
Speaker 3: I have friends in Australia. I have friends in the UK.
Speaker 3: It's very, very common there. It feels like almost gross
Speaker 3: to be successful. It does because you're like so worried,
Speaker 3: like is everybody gonna hate me?
Speaker 2: It's like a bubble.
Speaker 3: We have a bit of that here in the US.
Speaker 3: I think there's I think it's less. But I also like,
Speaker 3: as harsh as this sounds, if you don't have people
Speaker 3: in your life, if you're not in situations in your
Speaker 3: life that will celebrate you making choices that are right
Speaker 3: for you, get new friends, it sounds so bad.
Speaker 2: No, that's great advice.
Speaker 3: Get new friends, get a new partner, get a new job, Like,
Speaker 3: as long as you are not hurting yourself or others.
Speaker 3: If your choices make you happy, great. If your choices
Speaker 3: make you happy but no one gets the fine. Oh
Speaker 3: I'm getting really philosophical today. I'm so sorry, but like
Speaker 3: I like this. The only person you have to answer
Speaker 3: to when your head hits the pillow, even if somebody's
Speaker 3: next to you on the other pillow, Like, the only
Speaker 3: person you have to answer to is you. So if
Speaker 3: your life doesn't fight you on fire, time to get
Speaker 3: a new life, like time to get a new one.
Speaker 5: It's true, like you deserve so much more, So go
Speaker 5: and get it because it's there for the taking, with
Speaker 5: the right education and the right steps and the right people.
Speaker 5: And I always say to my community, if your friends
Speaker 5: un championing you, I will champion you. I will be
Speaker 5: that person that tells you to go find more because
Speaker 5: your friends they deserve less if they're going to be
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 3: I will also say, with all of this, this is
Speaker 3: only able to happen for the things we can control.
Speaker 3: This is what my book acknowledges, what my podcast acknowledges. Yes,
Speaker 3: I can tell you like, go live your best life,
Speaker 3: live your big dreams. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: there is racism and sexism and homophobia and ableism, and
Speaker 3: a trillion dollar student death crisis and stagnating minimum wages
Speaker 3: in this country, a lack of paid family leave, and
Speaker 3: all of these things. So it has to be coupled
Speaker 3: with systemic change, like control the things that you can
Speaker 3: control show up as the best version of yourself. Get
Speaker 3: financially educated, Understand how to put a budget together that
Speaker 3: supports your goals. Understand how to start investing so you
Speaker 3: can build your wealth, do what you can to find
Speaker 3: a good paying job that doesn't deplete you, and that
Speaker 3: gives you flexibility and options. But at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, personal finance is about twenty percent those things
Speaker 3: in eighty percent circumstances. It's about eighty percent systemic issues.
Speaker 3: And that's where we need government support, policy, change a
Speaker 3: new system, control the things you can control, and then
Speaker 3: all of the rest of this has to change in
Speaker 3: order for us to live in a more pleasurable, more safe,
Speaker 3: more equitable society. And I always when I do, you know,
Speaker 3: talk about like making changes in your life, I always
Speaker 3: want to acknowledge for the person that's listening, and I
Speaker 3: know you. I can see you. You're like with your
Speaker 3: headphones going like Okay, that's great, but like I don't
Speaker 3: make shit at work, or you know, I've tried and
Speaker 3: I can't pay off my debt because I don't make
Speaker 3: enough money. So know that I see you, and that
Speaker 3: I understand that at a certain point, choices are not
Speaker 3: available to you if you don't have the financial means
Speaker 3: to do so. I don't have an answer. The answer
Speaker 3: is to vote, The answer is to change policy. The
Speaker 3: answer is to support legislators and legislation you want to see.
Speaker 3: But beyond that again, you and I I think work
Speaker 3: to focus people on controlling the things that they can
Speaker 3: control and then changing the rest of it for everybody else.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent.
Speaker 5: Like we'll do the big stuff if we can, Like
Speaker 5: we'll use our voices to do that.
Speaker 2: You don't have to do that. You can take the
Speaker 2: small steps.
Speaker 5: Tory, I think we should run off for a very
Speaker 5: quick break because I need a tea, But also when
Speaker 5: we come back, I want to talk about overcoming those
Speaker 5: barriers a bit more and building some confidence to stand
Speaker 5: up for yourself.
Speaker 2: So guys, don't go anywhere.
Speaker 5: I am back with Tory, who is from her first
Speaker 5: one hundred K, and we have been, what would you say,
Speaker 5: passionately chatting about our experiences as women in finance, and
Speaker 5: I think it is beautiful to touch pace on I
Speaker 5: guess how people can combat it. I really liked what
Speaker 5: you said at the end of the first break that
Speaker 5: you know, we do see that it's struggle, and we
Speaker 5: do see that it is really hard. And sometimes you
Speaker 5: listen to stuff, especially cuss like this, and you're like,
Speaker 5: I want to just throw my phone in the bin.
Speaker 5: Because I picked up this podcast and I just feel
Speaker 5: like I can't achieve a lot because the world works.
Speaker 2: Against you in a way.
Speaker 5: I follow you on TikTok. I love your content. I
Speaker 5: don't think that is a surprise. You probably see my
Speaker 5: posts all the time and basically like louder amen, like
Speaker 5: I'm just hanging out in the back while also not
Speaker 5: posting my own content, Like I'm just your personal hyt
Speaker 5: girl at this point.
Speaker 2: But you did a TikTok the other day and you
Speaker 2: were recently asked after talking.
Speaker 5: About being get these New York Times bestseller You're like
Speaker 5: a Forbes thirty under thirty. You're doing all this and
Speaker 5: the audacity of a guy to stand up to say,
Speaker 5: what were your credentials?
Speaker 2: Ah? Like I nearly threw my phone at the wall.
Speaker 2: Why do you.
Speaker 5: Think that question is asked of somebody who quite clearly
Speaker 5: is incredibly articulate and passionate and obviously educated. You don't
Speaker 5: have to ask about credentials because I can tell that
Speaker 5: you I know your shit, But like, why will you
Speaker 5: ask that? And when other women are asked that, how
Speaker 5: should we respond when our authority in our space is questioned?
Speaker 3: You will appreciate this not to go to In the weeds,
Speaker 3: I was speaking to a bunch of financial advisors.
Speaker 2: No, you weren't, dah.
Speaker 3: It was a lot of like, how is this TikTok
Speaker 3: social media star qualified to like give financial advice?
Speaker 2: So weird? I know more than you bye.
Speaker 3: And they also meant like regulation and like basically was
Speaker 3: asking like do you have a degree in finance? This
Speaker 3: is again a larger conversation in the weeds, but like
Speaker 3: in the United States, there's certain things that you can't
Speaker 3: say if you have like a CFP, a certified financial
Speaker 3: planner like license or degree, and there's certain things you
Speaker 3: can't say. So again, that didn't make us sexy of
Speaker 3: a TikTok. But someone did come up to me. I'm like,
Speaker 3: keynoting this massive conference. I got paid twenty five k
Speaker 3: to be there. Holy Holy, I am literally signing copies
Speaker 3: of my New York Times bestselling book. And he's like,
Speaker 3: it was really interesting what you had to say, which
Speaker 3: is always what men say.
Speaker 2: Really interesting what you had to say.
Speaker 3: And then he was like, so, basically, how are you
Speaker 3: able to do what you do? What are your credentials? Yeah?
Speaker 3: The irony is, yeah, I literally have a book open
Speaker 3: in front of me and I'm signing my name on it.
Speaker 3: I'm just like, here you go. I'm doing just fine, sir.
Speaker 2: Well, so don't ask a question you could have googled.
Speaker 2: It makes you look really dumb.
Speaker 3: Really, it's just bad. But like I get TikTok comments
Speaker 3: all the time of like, oh, if you're a millionaire,
Speaker 3: you're not because you don't look rich, like men tell
Speaker 3: me like you don't look rich, or your hair's bad,
Speaker 3: or like if you were a millionaire, you'd live in
Speaker 3: a better house than that.
Speaker 5: So what you are seeing is that living my life
Speaker 5: in a hoodie is a privilege.
Speaker 2: Get out of your uncomfortable pencil skirt.
Speaker 3: I wore an Australian hoodie for you today. I bought
Speaker 3: this actually in a New Zealand. I'm so sorry, but
Speaker 3: it is an Australian brand and I love it.
Speaker 2: I love this. I'll send you one of our She's
Speaker 2: on the Money hoodies you need much?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I would love that. So yeah, I
Speaker 3: think that this is back to our conversation about like
Speaker 3: women playing big in a space patriarchy feel bad, like
Speaker 3: weaponize altruism, Like that's what's happening. Woman shows up as
Speaker 3: fullest version of herself, patriarchy panics because realizes she's no
Speaker 3: longer controllable, tries to cut you down. Now, you have
Speaker 3: two potential responses. One, which is totally understandable, is to
Speaker 3: be like, holy shit, am I not qualified to be here?
Speaker 3: Am I not qualified to have this job? Am I
Speaker 3: not qualified to show up and speak at this event?
Speaker 3: Am I not qualified to do these things? Or do
Speaker 3: I not say my accomplishments for fear of pissing somebody
Speaker 3: else off. That is totally understandable, But that is not
Speaker 3: the right answer.
Speaker 2: It's the wrong answer.
Speaker 3: The second answer is to show up anyway and understand
Speaker 3: that the girls that get it get it, and the
Speaker 3: girls that don't don't. Like there will be people who
Speaker 3: don't understand what you do, and that's okay. It's okay.
Speaker 3: And I think, especially as a business owner, this is
Speaker 3: actually advice I give to a lot of business owners
Speaker 3: or people who want to be business owners. Is we
Speaker 3: feel like we have to appeal to everybody. We feel
Speaker 3: like we have to serve everybody because everybody it's our
Speaker 3: potential customer, and like we really want to make sure
Speaker 3: that we get the money and get clients in order
Speaker 3: to like support this business. And again you can translate
Speaker 3: this even if you're not a business owner. I want
Speaker 3: to make sure that nobody hates me, right, like I
Speaker 3: want to make sure that everybody likes me and that
Speaker 3: everything's great. And we know this I'm adding myself to
Speaker 3: because I am a Leslie. Nope, I want to be
Speaker 3: liked by everybody, like even I have to remind myself
Speaker 3: of this. Even if you try to be liked by everybody,
Speaker 3: Like if you were the best person for the job
Speaker 3: of trying to be liked by everybody, somebody out there
Speaker 3: would still not like you. So you have to again
Speaker 3: understand that the only person you have to answer to
Speaker 3: is you. The only person you have to answer to
Speaker 3: with your choices and your decisions is you. And if
Speaker 3: there are certain people that don't get what you're trying
Speaker 3: to do, that's okay. Like this lovely man who was
Speaker 3: probably about sixty years old and was a straight white
Speaker 3: guy asking me like, I think he meant it very
Speaker 3: well intentionally, but he doesn't understand how it comes across.
Speaker 3: He's not my audience, and that's okay. He's not the
Speaker 3: people I'm trying to appeal to he doesn't get it.
Speaker 3: The girls that get it get it, and the girls
Speaker 3: that don't don't, and that's okay. But again, this is
Speaker 3: back to if we show up as the fullest versions
Speaker 3: of ourselves the patriarchy, and by patriarchy I sometimes mean men,
Speaker 3: but what I mean really is like the deeply rooted
Speaker 3: notion or narrative that someone else's success means some sort
Speaker 3: of threat to us. This like narrative that we've been
Speaker 3: told that there's one seat at the table, or that
Speaker 3: if somebody else is succeeding, it means I can't also succeed.
Speaker 3: Or it also feels like a call out. Sometimes if
Speaker 3: you know you're capable of greatness, whatever greatness looks like
Speaker 3: for you, and somebody else is doing great things, it
Speaker 3: can feel like this mirror where you're like, holy shit,
Speaker 3: this person has that. Why don't I have that? And
Speaker 3: then again, you have a choice. You have the opportunity
Speaker 3: to either go, wow, I'm gonna use this person in
Speaker 3: their story as inspiration for me to motivate me. Or
Speaker 3: you can be mean on the internet. You can ask, well,
Speaker 3: what is the reason that I don't like them? What
Speaker 3: is the thing I can find that Again, devalues them,
Speaker 3: devalues their experience makes them look small. So yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean all roads lead back to patriarchy, oh.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And isn't that frustrating?
Speaker 5: Like I have had my authority questioned multiple times, especially
Speaker 5: as an Australian, and I am in the really fun
Speaker 5: position where I do get to snap back because I
Speaker 5: was a financial advisor, I'm now a retired financial advisor,
Speaker 5: and I don't just have one degree. I got a
Speaker 5: whole bunch of them, and I have an MBA, So
Speaker 5: sit the hell down. It's like, you know when they
Speaker 5: always say, like you learn more on.
Speaker 2: The job, Like I learned more about finance and personal
Speaker 2: finance and the things that are important to my community,
Speaker 2: not through my degrees. To me, they mean nothing.
Speaker 5: In fact, I look at them and I go, that
Speaker 5: was a whole heap of debt that I got myself
Speaker 5: into to get to a position that I arguably was
Speaker 5: already passionate about, already excited about, and.
Speaker 2: Could have just learnt more on the job. So to me,
Speaker 2: they didn't make me, They didn't help me. They might
Speaker 2: make a mediocre middle aged white man shut the hell up.
Speaker 2: And that's good for a hot second. But I just
Speaker 2: feel like having your authority questioned. I love it, do
Speaker 2: you know why? Because it means they're a little bit uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: and I love making men uncomfortable.
Speaker 5: It is my favorite. And I also then like to
Speaker 5: drop back, and I think that you'll get a.
Speaker 2: Laugh out of this. But like, if people like to
Speaker 2: question me, I like to act really dumb and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: what do you mean and get them to explain themselves
Speaker 2: or I go, oh my gosh, so sorry. I'm the
Speaker 2: worst at picking up on tone. Was that meant to
Speaker 2: be helpful or harmful?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Make them dig their own grave.
Speaker 3: My favorite question to like men being stupid is just.
Speaker 2: Tell me more about that, And then they can't.
Speaker 3: I ask men that all the time.
Speaker 2: Tell me more about that, tell me a story.
Speaker 3: Very like level headed. But I'll give them this kind
Speaker 3: of look. I'll tell my hat a little bit and
Speaker 3: more like, tell me more about that, and they always
Speaker 3: back check. They're like, oh, well, this thing my favorite.
Speaker 3: Oh me too, And this is a larger conversation about
Speaker 3: imposter syndrome. Like I'll tell you a story. I can
Speaker 3: remember the last time I ever felt like an impostor.
Speaker 3: It was twenty nineteen her first under K was still
Speaker 3: a side hustle. It was one of like my first
Speaker 3: like big speaking engagements. It felt really big at the time.
Speaker 3: It was maybe like a crowd of forty people.
Speaker 2: That's a lot of people, like at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, Like.
Speaker 3: Especially at the start, it was very significant.
Speaker 5: Now, let's just reframe these twenty five K for your
Speaker 5: last engagement, like queen get it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I was on this panel with I think
Speaker 3: three or four other people. I was the youngest person
Speaker 3: on that panel by at least a decade. Speaking of
Speaker 3: the pencil skirts, Like they had the blazers, they had
Speaker 3: the pencil skirts, they had the financial licenses, and one
Speaker 3: was a CFP and like one you know, was a
Speaker 3: venture capitalist and I'm showing up in this room and
Speaker 3: I remember thinking, oh, I'm maybe not supposed to be here.
Speaker 3: Like I had my Adidas on for a really long time.
Speaker 3: I had like the signature leather jacket that I war
Speaker 3: for everything, like that's what I had on.
Speaker 2: I love these I love it so much.
Speaker 3: And I you know, it was twenty four and was
Speaker 3: just like, this is gonna be interesting. They're way more
Speaker 3: qualified than I am. Their resumes are way longer, than mine.
Speaker 3: What am I doing here? And as we got started,
Speaker 3: I started looking out into the audience and it was
Speaker 3: all women in their twenties and thirties.
Speaker 2: They lived for you, my friend, right.
Speaker 3: They looked like me, they were dressed like me. And
Speaker 3: I turned, you know, to these very smart people who
Speaker 3: were very kind and very intelligent, very good at their jobs.
Speaker 3: But literally one of them started saying words like acid
Speaker 3: allocation and portfolio diversifying. It was almost comical. I saw
Speaker 3: every single woman just her eyes glazed over. Of course
Speaker 3: not because she's stupid, it's just it's jargony stuff that
Speaker 3: like because they had been in the industry for so long,
Speaker 3: they just took as like everybody knows this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And that was the moment where I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: I'm here for a specific reason. I'm here to make
Speaker 3: this non ap proachable topic approachable. I'm here to show
Speaker 3: up as someone who could be like a friend or
Speaker 3: a sister to this person. I'm here to actually talk
Speaker 3: about personal finance one oh one as if it's one
Speaker 3: oh one, not what they think one oh one is.
Speaker 3: And like that was literally the last moment I've ever
Speaker 3: had imposter syndrome, because I was like I'm supposed to
Speaker 3: be here.
Speaker 2: You finally knew that that was the room you want
Speaker 2: men to be right.
Speaker 3: I don't have as big of a resume, I haven't
Speaker 3: been through as many of these things. But I'm here
Speaker 3: for a particular reason to talk to this particular person.
Speaker 3: Like that was so helpful for me, and maybe it's
Speaker 3: helpful for you too. Listener of like showing up in
Speaker 3: rooms where you might not be the most qualified person,
Speaker 3: You're there for a different reason. You're there so that
Speaker 3: people feel less alone. You're there so that people can
Speaker 3: see themselves in you. You're there to translate jargon like
Speaker 3: you're there for a different reason, and that reason is
Speaker 3: just as valid, And I would argue maybe even more valid,
Speaker 3: because you are the best person that job.
Speaker 2: I love this.
Speaker 5: I feel like I've been talking to you forever. You
Speaker 5: are a very busy woman. I do not want to
Speaker 5: eat up any more.
Speaker 2: Of your time. I feel like you and.
Speaker 5: I could talk about this until the cows come home.
Speaker 5: And I genuinely cannot wait until we get an opportunity
Speaker 5: to do this again, Like I will be following you
Speaker 5: up to be like when can we meet?
Speaker 2: How much coffee can we drink? And yell at each
Speaker 2: other over like I just I think this is so good.
Speaker 3: This has been great.
Speaker 2: But one of my favorite questions to ask people is
Speaker 2: Tory came on this podcast and you're very generous with
Speaker 2: your time, and you said, yeah, I'll give the shees
Speaker 2: on the money community a piece of me to help
Speaker 2: them get ahead. But coming into any interview, what is
Speaker 2: one question that you wish people would ask you.
Speaker 3: I get asked a lot of course about like where
Speaker 3: does somebody get started financially? And I think that's really helpful.
Speaker 3: I think one of the things that I am most
Speaker 3: proud of that actually doesn't have anything to do with
Speaker 3: personal finance is how we've built our business, and I
Speaker 3: wish more people are about that. Like I said before,
Speaker 3: we have a team. We have built this company. We
Speaker 3: have built honestly like a media company. I built that
Speaker 3: with twenty dollars, Like I signed up for a Squarespace subscription,
Speaker 3: I bought a domain. Maybe it was forty I think
Speaker 3: I bought the Squarespace subscription and then I bought the domain,
Speaker 3: so it's probably about forty bucks. Like I took no
Speaker 3: outside funding. We don't do paid ads, like we have
Speaker 3: grown an audience to four million people with organic social media. Now,
Speaker 3: if you don't work in social media, that is almost
Speaker 3: impossible to do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like that is the biggest bragging rights in the
Speaker 5: entire world.
Speaker 3: It's very difficult, especially with companies like a Meta or
Speaker 3: a Google that basically tank your organic content.
Speaker 2: If you're not paying.
Speaker 3: And I had this background in social media, and I
Speaker 3: literally worked for companies that would spend hundreds of thousands
Speaker 3: of dollars a month just on Facebook ads. And now
Speaker 3: I have a ton of privilege. I want to be
Speaker 3: clear about that. That's a huge part of my story.
Speaker 3: I'm a cisgendered white woman who you know, graduated college
Speaker 3: debt free because she worked through college but also had
Speaker 3: parents to help pay. Like, I have a lot of privileges,
Speaker 3: but I didn't have this like rich uncle who swooped
Speaker 3: in was like, here's some investment money for your business. Like,
Speaker 3: I am really really proud of what I have been
Speaker 3: able to do as an individual, what our team has
Speaker 3: been able to do, what our community stands for creating
Speaker 3: a mission and value based company to teach women how
Speaker 3: to navigate the financial system, but also working to take
Speaker 3: this community and give them both an individual purpose and
Speaker 3: a collective purpose and the fact that I didn't ask
Speaker 3: for outside money to do that. I haven't paid for ads,
Speaker 3: Like I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 2: I am in awe of that, Like thank you, especially
Speaker 2: in America where it is so hard to get ahead,
Speaker 2: especially as a woman, and to be able to be
Speaker 2: like I don't spend anything on its. I also didn't
Speaker 2: take anybody's money. I did THEEPS. I am just ah,
Speaker 2: I love it so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad I asked that.
Speaker 3: And it's also like, without getting too emotional, like I'm
Speaker 3: really proud of myself. I've always had a vision for
Speaker 3: something bigger, but I didn't know that this was it.
Speaker 3: Like I always make the joke like if you would
Speaker 3: have told me five years ago, Tory, you're going to
Speaker 3: be educating people about money, I would have laughed in
Speaker 3: your face.
Speaker 2: Same I would have been like that sounds awful.
Speaker 3: Literally, I like that sounds born as hell.
Speaker 2: I thought I was going to be a psychologist.
Speaker 3: Lucas is now like what the goal was to be
Speaker 3: an actor for me and then a marketer and then
Speaker 3: like it's turned into this and so it's just really
Speaker 3: really amazing to see the impact it's had on people's
Speaker 3: lives to see the impact it's had on my own life,
Speaker 3: Like I'm financially independent. That's the other thing that I
Speaker 3: wish more people asked me about. I was financially independent
Speaker 3: at twenty seven years old, meaning I never had to
Speaker 3: work another day in my life if I didn't want to,
Speaker 3: because I had saved slash invested enough money that I
Speaker 3: could have hypothetically quit working. Now, I don't want to
Speaker 3: do that because I like what I do. We have
Speaker 3: a company now, and we do all these things. I'm
Speaker 3: proud of that. There's a lot of things I'm proud of,
Speaker 3: I think with HKA and with how I've grown. I
Speaker 3: don't know how much time we have. But the other
Speaker 3: thing that I think is really important that I wish
Speaker 3: we talked more about, just as a society and as
Speaker 3: people who are public people online, is that it is very,
Speaker 3: very difficult to be a person online. And we were
Speaker 3: never meant to be or designed to be, as humans
Speaker 3: beings that took everybody's opinion and took a million pieces
Speaker 3: of data all of the time in you know, one
Speaker 3: ten minute scrolling session on Instagram or TikTok, Like I
Speaker 3: always think about if I walk down the street and
Speaker 3: that worked the same way my social media feed did.
Speaker 3: One person would be so excited to meet me, which
Speaker 3: would be lovely, and then I'd have five people screaming
Speaker 3: obscenities or calling me fat to my face.
Speaker 2: It just it's not the reality, is it.
Speaker 3: It's not the reality. And it's also like, I think
Speaker 3: most of us are just trying to do the best
Speaker 3: that we can. We're just trying to show up as
Speaker 3: the best versions of ourselves, and we are going to
Speaker 3: make mistakes, and we are also going to sometimes make
Speaker 3: decisions that other people don't understand because there's information that
Speaker 3: we have that somebody else doesn't, and we're just trying
Speaker 3: to do the right thing. And it's really often difficult,
Speaker 3: even with all of these very flashy measures of success
Speaker 3: and things that I'm so grateful for. You were talking
Speaker 3: about showing up on TikTok every day. That is not easy.
Speaker 2: Oh no, That's why I'm impressed. Obviously, working a nine
Speaker 2: to five Monday to Friday job is much harder than that. However, yes,
Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things where just showing
Speaker 2: up it takes so much more than the time, right
Speaker 2: It takes the energy. It takes me so much emotional
Speaker 2: energy just to turn up online.
Speaker 3: And even if you're not an influencer or a public person,
Speaker 3: like social media is a beautiful way to connect with people,
Speaker 3: it is also so damaging to your psyche, Like it's
Speaker 3: so hard to create content, to show up to do
Speaker 3: that day in or day out, to do that where
Speaker 3: people are screaming at you and just saying really gross
Speaker 3: things about you. And again, I don't have an answer,
Speaker 3: but just like, be kind to people online, like show
Speaker 3: up as the kindest version of yourself in all aspects
Speaker 3: of your life. But especially if you're hiding behind this
Speaker 3: like anonymity, or you're telling somebody that you don't actually
Speaker 3: know in real life about all of your opinions about
Speaker 3: their work or about them.
Speaker 5: It says so much more about them than it ever
Speaker 5: does about you. And I just don't think they realize that.
Speaker 5: And it's the sad reality of the world because, as
Speaker 5: you said before, we're all just out here trying to
Speaker 5: do the best that we can, and your best is.
Speaker 2: Obviously way way way up there, but.
Speaker 5: Your best is actually just trying to put other people
Speaker 5: in the best possible position, because you know, that a
Speaker 5: lot of them aren't and they deserve that. And the
Speaker 5: idea that people don't like that blows my mind, Like
Speaker 5: the idea that you're just out here trying to help
Speaker 5: and people hate it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And just the assumption of positive intent, I think
Speaker 3: is so important. This is important for ourselves, it's important
Speaker 3: for our relationships. It's also important for like people you
Speaker 3: admire or follow online, like offer yourself and meet and
Speaker 3: Victoria and everybody else you follow. Like just a little
Speaker 3: bit of grace.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: We're doing the best that we can, and we are
Speaker 3: doing this in the hopes that we can take care
Speaker 3: of ourselves, we can take care of our team, we
Speaker 3: can take care of our communities, and that we can
Speaker 3: leave the world a little bit better than we found it.
Speaker 3: And all of this sounds like touchy feely, but like truly,
Speaker 3: just be kind to people, especially the people that like
Speaker 3: you follow and you hold in high regard, because we
Speaker 3: are people too. We are out here doing the best
Speaker 3: we can with all of it.
Speaker 2: I love it, Tory. I think that is probably one
Speaker 2: of the best places to leave it that I've ever seen.
Speaker 5: So I am going to wrap us up here, but
Speaker 5: before we go, thank you for sharing so much time
Speaker 5: with me and with my community. I know they are
Speaker 5: going to be so excited about this episode.
Speaker 2: I feel like you're right. This episode is a little
Speaker 2: bit more fluffy.
Speaker 5: But like I hope people walk away feeling so inspired,
Speaker 5: so empowered to just take the first step if they
Speaker 5: haven't done that yet, or just know that they're on
Speaker 5: the right track, right Like if you're listening to this
Speaker 5: and you're like, I am doing those things, like you
Speaker 5: get it, queen, Like I love.
Speaker 2: It so much.
Speaker 5: But for those of you who might not have met
Speaker 5: you yet, how do we stay in touch?
Speaker 2: How do we follow you? How do we buy your book?
Speaker 2: How do I do all of those things that I
Speaker 2: want everyone in my community to be doing?
Speaker 3: Thank you. I know there's a lot of actionable advice
Speaker 3: on your episodes and your podcast as well as mine,
Speaker 3: so hopefully this was actually a nice reprieve from some
Speaker 3: of that. Her first hunder k is our brand. You
Speaker 3: can go to her first hundred k dot com for
Speaker 3: all of the ways to work with us and to
Speaker 3: consume our content. We're also her first hunder k and
Speaker 3: all the socials my podcast and book are called Financial
Speaker 3: Feminists and should be available wherever you listen to podcasts
Speaker 3: and wherever you read your books.
Speaker 5: We will link to all of them in our show
Speaker 5: notes so it can't be missed and you don't have
Speaker 5: to write that down. But again, Tory, thank you so
Speaker 5: much for sharing so much time and so much space
Speaker 5: and honestly, so much of you. I feel like I've
Speaker 5: learned in this I guess hour that we've been recording
Speaker 5: just so much about who you are as a person,
Speaker 5: and I'm even more obsessed, like I love it. I
Speaker 5: just can't wait until we cross paths in person and
Speaker 5: get to talk more about business, like I want to
Speaker 5: know how you built this business and I want to
Speaker 5: share that with my community too. So, guys, thank you
Speaker 5: so much for listening, and Tory, thank you so much
Speaker 5: for joining.
Speaker 3: I love it, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 6: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
Speaker 6: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
Speaker 6: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
Speaker 6: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
Speaker 2: If you do choose to buy a financial product.
Speaker 6: Read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored
Speaker 6: towards your needs. Victoria divine and she's on the money.
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