1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: And I think once you can get out of your 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: own way, I think that's when you start to become 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: a lot more successful, when you can really start to 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: not inhibit your own company and its success and your 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: own personal success because of self limiting beliefs. 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: used by the world's most successful people to get so 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: much out of their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 2: and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work date. 11 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: My guest on today's show is Fred Shibesta. Fred is 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 2: an award winning business leader best known for co founding 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 2: one of the world's leading comparison websites, Finder dot com. 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: And in case you have never compared products on finder 15 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: dot com, here's a bit of background. So Finder dot 16 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: Com was born out of a simple concept to educate 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: people and directly compare student credit cards of all things. 18 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 2: Over the years, it expanded and evolved to compare a 19 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: range of products across different industries. Today, find it dot 20 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: com compares virtually everything from cryptocurrency exchanges and wallets, credit cards, 21 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 2: and insurance to savings, travel, technology, and electronics. Finder dot 22 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: com attracts over eight to ten million visitors per month 23 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: and now operates in over eighty countries. So I was 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: very excited to sit down to chat with Fred, who 25 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 2: I'd heard had had some quite quirky habits and strategies 26 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: in his life, and that definitely came across. I was 27 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: very interested to hear about how he segments his sleep, 28 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: and if you don't know what a sleep segment is, 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: you will learn all about that in this interview, along 30 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: with some quirky things like why Fred frequently reminds himself 31 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: via his calendar that he's going to die. So on 32 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: that note, over to Fred to hear about how he works. Fred, 33 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. 34 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Amantha. I'm starting a. 35 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: Lot of these interviews at the moment, given we're right 36 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: in the middle of all the COVID chaos, and I 37 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: want to say where maybe five or six weeks into 38 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: lockdown here in Melbourne and you in Sydney at the moment, Fred, 39 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: is that right? 40 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: I am. 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 2: Actually I want to not to start with how has 42 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: been in Lockdown changed the way that you approach work, 43 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 2: like in terms of are their new rituals or routines 44 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: or things that you've incorporated into how your days are 45 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: running at the moment. 46 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: New rituals have been work more and work harder. Right, 47 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: I've just found it incredibly amazing that it will. I 48 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: just really worked from home before I was more of 49 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: a I was quite call it. Walk the floor is 50 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: to just walk around and just bump into people and 51 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 1: ask them what they're up to and learn a lot 52 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: and a lot of serendipity came from that. I guess 53 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: I've kind of struggled with that. The other thing I've 54 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: struggled a little bit with is visualizing things, so I've 55 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: had to draw them in, you know, with my mouse, 56 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: which is, you know, a new experience. And you know, 57 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: I think sometimes the energy I get from just talking 58 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: to people, I think I've struggled a little bit as well. 59 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: And so I've sort of just met up with people 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: instead and invited them over. That's kind of I don't 61 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: know if it's allowed or not, but that's what I've 62 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: been doing. 63 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Okay, that's interesting, Like the whole walking of 64 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: the floor thing. So aside from having gatherings of two people, 65 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: how else have you replaced that kind of keeping in 66 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: touch with people and sort of I guess keeping the 67 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: culture alive, you know, given given the constraints that we're 68 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: working within, we're just we're just start. 69 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: Of the communitating a lot more lot of video, you know, 70 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: all hands ever weekly all hands We didn't used to 71 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: have an all hands weekly. I've been trying to visualize 72 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: things a lot more, create videos, create diagrams and things 73 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: like that. It hasn't been easy. I've got to say, 74 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: I'm still adapting and learning, you know, a lot more. 75 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: I've written a lot more narratives as well to try 76 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: and communicate context. But yeah, it's not easy, and a 77 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: lot of the time, I think through digital communication, I 78 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,679 Speaker 1: found it to be even harder to give that context 79 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: and know that someone needs some more context. I've been 80 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 1: running into that quite a bit recently. 81 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: Can you expand on what you mean by using narrative 82 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: for you? What does that mean in terms of using 83 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: narratives to communicate. 84 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: I write a story and then I write the background, 85 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: the problem, proposals principles around it, and I just try 86 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: and communicate as much of my thing thinking into that document, 87 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: and then it's kind of like a story. If that 88 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: makes sense. 89 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: It does, Like is it kind of like because I 90 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: had Paul mcglarini, who heads up Amazon Web Services here 91 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 2: in Australia, and obviously Amazon are famous for using their 92 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: six page narratives. Is it a similar kind of thing 93 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: that you're talking about or is this the fread style narrative. 94 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: I would assume it's probably relatively similar. And when we 95 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: start meetings, you know, we try and read the narrative, 96 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, as similar to Amazon as well. Yeah, I'm 97 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: not sure if there's a right way or a wrong 98 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: way necessarily of writing a narrative. I think it's using 99 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: the present tense and describing what the situation and giving 100 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: as much background as possible. So because the hardest thing 101 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: to scale when you know you become a lucky company 102 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: is context. It's like, and really, what is that question? Is? 103 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: Why are we doing this? You know, like when you 104 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: know an inside joke, you know, and you know the 105 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: joke and everyone else and you meet someone else and 106 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: they don't know that joke. Well, that's what's happening on 107 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: a mass scale in companies. A lot of people don't 108 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: understand why certain things are the way they are. They 109 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: just assume that someone would know that, and what the 110 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: narrative is trying to do is trying to fill in 111 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: that gap so that everyone has a shared contextual understanding 112 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: of the company. 113 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 2: Okay, now you mentioned you in your routine, so exercises 114 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: obviously important. Sleep is important. I've heard that you approach 115 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 2: sleep in quite an interesting way where you are a 116 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 2: sleep segmentor can you talk about your approach to sleep 117 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: and also whether that's changed in light of COVID and 118 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: working from home, Like I can. 119 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: Have several sleeps broken up, so sometimes you know, I'll 120 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: go to a bit at like eight in the wake up. 121 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 2: At three Okay, so we're talking eight eight pm to 122 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: three am, yes. 123 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: And then I'll wake up and then work till I 124 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: don't know, five six o'clock, and then I will go 125 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: back to sleep and then wake up at nine and 126 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: then operate my day fairly similar. And I may have 127 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: a nap at maybe one or two, you know, for 128 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: thirty five forty minutes and just reboot again and then yeah, 129 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: go again and then and then it kind of does 130 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: get broken. Sometimes I don't know if my routine is exact, 131 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: but sometimes I push it in one direction or the 132 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: other and then I just basically take a bigger nap 133 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: to recorrect. So you know, my theory on this is 134 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: I love to work with it when I'm in flow, 135 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: when I've got the energy, and I just play those flows. 136 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: I just roll with them, you know. I think it's 137 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: really hard to manufacture those moments of when you're in 138 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: your in your zone, and I will cover the middle 139 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: of the night and just be on ready, and then 140 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: other times I'll be like, nah, I'm not really into it, 141 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: and so I play that energy as best I possibly can. 142 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: So people are just used to I will say messages 143 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, in our instant messaging system on Slack or whatever, 144 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: at any hour, and people are very comfortable with that. 145 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: The find is obviously twenty four our company now because 146 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: it's worldwide. But that segmentation of sleep, I think people 147 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: assume that I'm just always awake, which you know, is 148 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: a good thing and allows me to be very accessible. 149 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: But I feel like an adapt as well from that, 150 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: so I can elongate one of the segments a little 151 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: bit and then sort of compress it a bit more 152 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: at other times. I think there was a week last 153 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: week I was a bit flat. I was just recharging. 154 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: I slept a lot, and you know, I think it 155 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: like a lion lifestyle, I call it. So, you know, 156 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: a line most of the day sits around and just 157 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: relaxes and sleeps right, and then it goes on these 158 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: big hunts and it goes and hunts something and chases 159 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: it down and spends a lot of time lots of energy. 160 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: Then whether it's got all that energy, it goes and 161 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: just relax and recovers after all of that. And I 162 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: think that's the kind of the mode that I'm in. 163 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: That's so fascinating. Do you remember what it was that 164 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: first prompted you to try this approach to to segmenting 165 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: your sleep. 166 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: A lot of entrepreneurs, they talk about you, you wake 167 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: up during during the middle of the night and you 168 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: have these ideas, and I it would always happen to me, 169 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: and so I would just write them down and then 170 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: I just I just just ignored that and went further 171 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: and just started actioning them, because you know, an idea 172 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: writtenown is good, but an idea action is reality. It's 173 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: playing that energy and playing that flow to maximize the output, 174 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: to maximize the time you spend in your what I 175 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: called genius mode. 176 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 2: I guess it like it requires being you know, in 177 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: touch with your natural energy levels, and you mentioned just 178 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: take advantage of those times where it feels like you 179 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 2: can get into a flow state. And I want to know, 180 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 2: like when you start work, it's obviously no one starts 181 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: work in a state of flow. You kind of get 182 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 2: into it. What what what? I guess tricks or strategies 183 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 2: have you found useful in terms of speeding up the 184 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: time it takes to get into that flow state. 185 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time on my phone to 186 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: start with, just to get a high level. So I 187 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: read a lot of reports on my phone and get 188 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: a context of where we're at. 189 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: Why on your phone as opposed to on your computer, So. 190 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: I feel like it's a relaxed state. I may still 191 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: be in bed just to just to allow Like I 192 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: think when you first wake up, there's a moment where 193 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: your mind's still quite fallow and you have some fresh land, 194 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: and I want to give it the information of all 195 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: the context of where we're at, so as that I 196 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: can then you know, determine what actions am I going 197 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: to take today? Where am I going to focus my energy? 198 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: And what am I going to try to achieve? And 199 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: then the next you know, I guess the next step 200 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: is then will I basically go to my computer then 201 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: to take action? I tend to. I do tend to 202 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: action some things on my phone. If it's just a chat, 203 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: I can do that, But if I need to like 204 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: really get into something, then I'll go to my computer. 205 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: But most of the time I've sort of optimized things 206 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: so as that I can do it from my phone. 207 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: And that means that I'm very real time and if 208 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: I have some moments during the night, I can still 209 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: you log in and just see what's going on. I 210 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: have this theory that time and mobile accessibility need to 211 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: be aligned these days, and I try and basically put 212 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: the entire company into my phone. 213 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 2: Tell me what you mean by that, like, how the 214 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: entire company is in your phone? 215 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: Well, my expectation with everything, it needs to be either 216 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: viewable as a report on my phone or a document 217 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: that I can read on my phone, or it's on 218 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: the internet. I can see it on the Internet. Otherwise 219 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't exist. And the reason why it doesn't exist 220 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: is because it doesn't exist to the user or the 221 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: internal user at finder. And so if it's somewhere else 222 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: on someone's hard drive or wherever that doesn't exist to me. 223 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: So when you are you've moved to your computer, you're 224 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 2: off the phone, and you're taking action on something, what then, 225 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: is your approach to getting in flow and staying on 226 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: task and presumably avoiding task switching potentially, if you are 227 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 2: in a flow state, what does that look like? 228 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: I switch off all notifications that all notifications are off, 229 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: I turnal sounds, I don't play music. I actually turn 230 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: my phone the screen upside down, so I only have 231 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: one screen available at a time. I don't believe in multitasking. 232 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: And then once I've finished the task, once it's done 233 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: or it's been delegated effectively delegated, then I'll move on 234 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: to the next thing. So I don't start the next 235 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: task until the first one's done. 236 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 2: Essentially, and in terms of dealing with digital distractions, anything 237 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: else that you're doing, or is it simply just notifications 238 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: off if you are trying to stay on task. 239 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: I left Facebook twenty twelve. It was eight years ago. 240 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: I just didn't think it was conducive to building a 241 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: good business. I don't really look at Twitter, I don't 242 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: really look at Instagram. I just deleted TikTok the other day. 243 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: You know, I think these are for me LinkedIn I 244 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: find interesting. I will look at those because I think 245 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: they're business related and it keeps you up to date. 246 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: I mainly focus on what's happened slack notifications, and that 247 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: gives me a really good idea of you know where, 248 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: and what's going on in the world and what's going 249 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: on in the market. And then otherwise, you know, I 250 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: don't have a TV. I basically just remove all the noise. 251 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 2: You don't have a TV. How long have you been 252 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: without a TV for? 253 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: Maybe? I don't know. I actually don't remember whenn't me. 254 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: I used to have a TV screen and we used 255 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: to screen stream movies onto it. Then we just got 256 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: rid of it. 257 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: And what's your approach to keeping up to date with 258 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 2: the new is at the moment? Given it sounds like 259 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: you're pretty strict on managing distractions, what's your approach to 260 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: consuming the news. 261 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: I'm part of some chat rooms and I'll listen, you know, 262 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: particularly I think stock traders they know what's going on 263 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: with the world. And then the second thing, if I 264 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: am going to look at some news or want to 265 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: know what's going on, I'll go to Twitter. I think 266 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: that's the fastest way to get the real time information. 267 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: But other than that, yeah, I'm a bit more of 268 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: a book reader and or a or I'm watching a 269 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: presentation or something like that. That's more my modality. 270 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 2: So books. I've heard that you've referred to the Seven 271 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: Habits of Highly Effective People as your Bible. I'm sure 272 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: that there are quite a few listeners that can relate 273 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: on some level. I want to know what strategies from 274 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: that book had the biggest impact on how you work 275 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: and what you still apply to this day. 276 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: I think the first, you know, begin with the end 277 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: in mind is my always begin with the end in 278 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: mind where am I ultimately trying to go, and start there, 279 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: and then the next step the one. I love that 280 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: one because it just you know, you set the goal 281 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: down and then you work backwards, which is, you know, great. 282 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: The second one, I really noticed it the other day, 283 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: but I didn't realize I always trying to go to 284 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: win win with any anything I do. I always try 285 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: and ensure there's a win win for everyone, because I 286 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: think it's more sustainable long term, and everyone's winning in 287 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: some some way, which is good, you know, and everyone's 288 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: incentivized are the two big ones. I think the circle 289 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: of influence and that whole concept I think is important 290 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: as well. When I know when something's not really in 291 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: my control, then I just let it go and move on. 292 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: Whereas if something's in my control or I can influence 293 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: it to someone else or through something, then I will 294 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: focus on that and try and try and make it happen. Otherwise. Yeah, 295 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: those are those ones I say day to day are 296 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: pretty big for me. 297 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: I think there's some great ones, particularly begin with the 298 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: end in mind, very useful. I've also heard you say 299 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: that you swear by having a life coach. Can you 300 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: tell me for people that haven't experienced having a coach, like, 301 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 2: what what happens in a typical session with your with 302 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: your life coach? And you know, I guess I'm curious 303 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: as to how it's made such a big difference in 304 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 2: your life. 305 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: I guess he's kind of a life coach. I don't. 306 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: I think I'm relatively on track with some of my 307 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: life bits, but it's more I work with him on 308 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: my emotions. I've seen him as more of an emotional coach, 309 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: and we do you know, I don't know there's a 310 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: word for some sort of I think it's CBDR or 311 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: something training and current on what it's called, where you 312 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: unblock beliefs you have about yourself and self dialogue. And 313 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: I think once you can get out of your own way, 314 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: I think that's when you start to become a lot 315 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: more successful, when you can really start to not inhibit 316 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,959 Speaker 1: your own company and its success and your own personal 317 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: success because of self limiting beliefs. And I think that's 318 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: the That is where I think it's very hard to 319 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: I can see those things, but how to address them 320 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: and fix them. I find it very difficult to be 321 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: that third party and be so objective. I think that's 322 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: where an emotional coach can really help. 323 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm imagining you're talking about cognitive behavioral therapy. 324 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: Would that be sounds like what you Yeah, yeah, CBT? 325 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 2: So what like, what's an example of where you've perhaps 326 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 2: identified a self limiting belief and how how your coach 327 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: has helped you through that? If you like. 328 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: I was many you know, I worked on I didn't 329 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: think I was good enough, I felt unworthy about anything, 330 00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: I wasn't comfortable with being alone, couldn't make mistakes. So 331 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: with all these things that they're kind of like much 332 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: more subconscious and deeper down and the interpretation of each 333 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: of those comes out. And I obviously learned to cope 334 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: with those, but I think once you clean them up 335 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: became I became way more effective, way faster, way cricket 336 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: to adapt, which is, you know, quite incredible. And depending 337 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: on what I'm doing, certain things will come to the 338 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: surface and I'm like, wow, I didn't realize I feel 339 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: like that about that. Yeah, And I think I'm working 340 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: on right now about the feeling of things getting taken 341 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: away from me. I think it's connected to control. But 342 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: that's that's where I'm at right now. 343 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 2: I imagine that there's probably quite a few listeners that are 344 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: struggling with losing control. I think that's certainly what's behind 345 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 2: stockpiling toilet paper and interesting behaviors like that that are 346 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 2: going on at this time. Yeah, for you, how are 347 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 2: you managing that? You know, if you're happy to share, like, 348 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: what's what's working for you in terms of I guess, 349 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: you know, working on that feeling of control, Well. 350 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: I just work on my you know, the CBT. I 351 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: think if that's the word, that's that's sort of my 352 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: main approach. I don't really think too much about why anymore. 353 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: Like I just know I've got this challenge, and I 354 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: don't really try and unpack it a lot. I just 355 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: sort of notice the emotions and feelings they change, and 356 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: then I reconfigure myself. And yeah, I'm less attached to 357 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: the reasons why and trying to figure that out, and 358 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: I'm more am comfortable to go through the process and 359 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,239 Speaker 1: then relearn myself. So some of the things I try 360 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: and do. Sometimes I'm just a bit everything's a bit noisy, 361 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: and I'll just take a take a break or you know, 362 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: go for a run or something. And other times I 363 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: just need to lie down and rest because I'm just 364 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: so overwhelmed with you know what I'm what I'm dealing 365 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: with and coping with, and that's just mental and emotional, 366 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: nothing to do with physical. I just need to have 367 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: a lie down. And other times I just do something 368 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: fun and something I like, you know, like I like 369 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: to get it, you know, a chicken burger, chili or 370 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: something like that, and just something I like, and that 371 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: just keeps me going, you know. That's That's what I think. 372 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: Once you do something fun and do something you like, 373 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: it starts the energy on the up and then you 374 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: can come back and deal with those other things and 375 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: just being kind to yourself. I think that's probably a 376 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: massive one for me. 377 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 2: How do you actually go about doing that? I guess 378 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: it's one thing recognizing that you maybe need a dose 379 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 2: of kindness, like you described your week last week where 380 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 2: you were a bit tired and you let yourself sleep, 381 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 2: you know, maybe more hours than usual. What is that 382 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: process for you? I guess first recognizing that you need 383 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 2: to be kind and then what are the actions that 384 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: then follow? 385 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: I think I'll feel on tilt, like I'm not in flow, 386 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: I'm really aggravated or frustrated. That's pretty a strong side 387 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: for me. I was feeling like that actually probably about 388 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: an hour ago, to be honest, really yeah, and I 389 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: like justa that have a time out. Just time out, 390 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: you know, like go and do something else. Don't grind 391 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: through that, recalibrate, come back and do your best work. 392 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: Just have a little pause. So I'm yeah, I'm actually 393 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: planning on going out and just going for a drive 394 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: after this and getting some Chinese. Actually I was really tilted. 395 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: I was frustrated. I was angry and mainly at myself 396 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: for all this stuff, you know, like that's just the way. 397 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: You know, you got to take responsibility for that because 398 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: you created this company, right you wrote down the processes 399 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: and systems and that level of responsibility. I think that 400 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: that's the step one, taking full responsibility for everything. That's 401 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: that's a really key thing to do. But you know, 402 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: I think that moment when I just it's kind of 403 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: like everything's really loud, I'm really frustrated, that's just a 404 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: good sign to go, hey, I and there's another mode 405 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: where I can feel a lot more children in control 406 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: and start to do some great work as opposed to 407 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, fight off flighting and getting angry and having 408 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: an argue with someone or whatever and just take a 409 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: time out and come back. 410 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting because I think a lot of people's 411 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: natural inclination is to to push through. It's interesting hearing 412 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 2: you talk about it today, and I must say I 413 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: can relate. I've had one of those days as well, 414 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 2: and I probably should have taken time out, but I 415 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 2: haven't yet, so like I want to know. So that's 416 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 2: interesting how you identified it. Sounds like it's pretty clear 417 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 2: you obviously didn't cancel this podcast interview, so thanks for that. 418 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 2: Thanks for doing that, you know, when you're feeling off tilt. 419 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 2: But you know, like what else would you do? Like 420 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 2: would you call your EA and go, hey, can you 421 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 2: just clear all my meetings because I just need to recharge, 422 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 2: like practically, what are the steps that you're taking there 423 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: to be able to do that. 424 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: Yes, sometimes I'll do that. Definitely I have done that 425 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 1: and just go, look, I just need to cancel this 426 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: afternoon and I need to read definitely other things. I'll 427 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: just tell everyone, you know, I need to have a 428 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: lie down. I just never break and I'll be back. Yeah, 429 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how else to parent you know about it. 430 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: Another one is I just will go off and have 431 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: a meal by myself. I'll just lose you to go, guys, 432 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: I'm just going out for some lunch and you just go. 433 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: I just sit and have lunch by myself and it's nice. 434 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: It's just a pause, do something that you like, and 435 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: then come back and you'll find you just remove all 436 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: that heaviness that's in the back of your mind and 437 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: unblock all that and bring the creativity back. 438 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 2: So when you're kind of taking this recharge time, do 439 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: you have to go to kind of things activities that 440 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 2: you will do that you know, recharge you or will 441 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: kind of get you back in balance again. 442 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I spend I'll go for a run 443 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: or exercise, or I'll read something, or you know, I 444 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: actually play with the computer games rarely but very Sometimes 445 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: I'll hang out with my girls, hang out with my partner, 446 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: just go out and do something. So like, hey, let's 447 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: go out and explore this. I kind of go exploring. 448 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: I think that's that's what I try to do. Just 449 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: get go somewhere else and get some new energy. Or 450 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: I'll just call someone up and just go and hang 451 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: out and just go, hey, do you want to go 452 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: and you know, get some noodles at this place as 453 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: a journey, or I need to go and buy some 454 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: black socks. Do you want to come for a walk 455 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: with me? Or so, just little journeys, little inventions. 456 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 2: And I guess, like speaking of you know, how the 457 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 2: day runs, I've I've heard that you're quite strategic in 458 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 2: terms of how you use calendar reminders. Can you can 459 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 2: you talk about how you use your calendar to keep 460 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: you on task with work and I guess maintain your 461 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 2: motivation during the day. 462 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I publicized my calendar as widely and as often, 463 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: and so everyone will know because I get very focused 464 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: on things and lose track of tar. So a lot 465 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: of people know, you know what's going on, which is 466 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: important Step one. The other thing I do is I 467 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: remind I put reminders about things I want to say 468 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: to myself on a recurring basis. So one of them 469 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: is as one that's it's an old Roman saying. So 470 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: when gladiators used to or big or generals used to 471 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: come back from war, and they were like the the 472 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: like literally in that moment, they were the the like 473 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: the person of Rome, which is you know, a big deal. 474 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: They would hire a little like a child or a 475 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: boy to come behind them and just whisper to them 476 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: memento mora, memento mora, which means one day you'll die. 477 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: And I just remind myself every month that one day 478 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: I'll die, and that keeps me, you know, it goes, 479 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: it sends you back through a process of going, okay, 480 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: one day I'll die. Am I doing what I want 481 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: to do today? As what if I was to die? 482 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: You know? One day? Am I okay with that? Am 483 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: I comfortable with that? And I just re check in 484 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: with what am I doing? How do I feel? And 485 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: when I don't feel that, then I tend to make 486 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: a change. And when I do, I'm like, yeah, I 487 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,239 Speaker 1: want on this, and I go deeper into that, and 488 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, I think that's a that's a purifying and 489 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: clarifying routine. The other thing I'll do is I'll create spaces, 490 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: So I just add spaces, blocked out spaces where it's 491 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: just I call it desk time. And that's not strange, 492 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: but like I'm going to sit at my desk and 493 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to do some some stuff that I need 494 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: to do that I want to do, or some creative 495 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: time or just think up ideas or another one I'll 496 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: have with it. Have it because I work on the 497 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: app team, the Finder app. I just have app team, 498 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: and I just meet with the app team and talk 499 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: about ideas and have no agenda, just go hey, I'm here, 500 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: what's going on, you know, and just check in and 501 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: creating that space purposefully has been one of the like 502 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: one of the highest leverage things I've done, for sure. 503 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 2: I guess it sounds like some of those spaces free 504 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: in terms of there's no set theme or kind of 505 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 2: project that you're looking at, whereas others will be around 506 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 2: a specific product. Let's say, but the agenda. 507 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: Is free correct. 508 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very interesting. I want to sqwitch gears because 509 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 2: I imagine you probably spend time interviewing I imagine thousands 510 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: of different candidates to work at FindOut and I'm wondering, like, 511 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: from all that experience, do you now have particular go 512 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 2: to questions or specific methods that you've found to be 513 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 2: effective to learn as much as possible about people in 514 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 2: a short space of time. Oh yeah, tell me what 515 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 2: they are? 516 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: So one of them is I don't give the address 517 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: of the interview, Like, so if you can't use Google 518 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: and figure out where we are, then I'm not sure 519 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: you're supposed to be joining an internet company. Yeah, and 520 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,239 Speaker 1: it says so much right, it's are you proactive? You know, 521 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: detailed those kind of things. Another question I ask is 522 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: do you love to win or hate to lose? And 523 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: the answer for me is it has to be one 524 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: or the other. Either you love to win or you 525 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: hate to lose. That's very specific. You're to be binary. 526 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: You can't be like, oh, sometimes I don't mind, you 527 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: know if we lose a little bit or you know, 528 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: it's going to be a fun fight, or I'm like, nah, 529 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: wrong person. You can go and join the living team 530 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: and then hand that win to me every single day 531 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: of the week. 532 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 2: What's that about for you? That answer? Like, is it 533 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 2: just someone that is sure of themselves or of their opinions? 534 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 2: What does that say to you? 535 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: They're competitive, they want to win, they want to be great, 536 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: and if they don't, then you know, I'm not sure 537 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: that I'll work terribly well with that person. 538 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there'll be kind of a values misalignment, I 539 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 2: guess correct. What else? What else are you doing? In recruitment, we. 540 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: Always give them a test. I want to see some 541 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: actual work. I sometimes I just give people a laptop 542 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: and say, show me your work on the internet. And 543 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: I want to see them actually use their computer. You know. 544 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: If they're like two finger typing, I'm like nah, you know, 545 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: or they're like struggling to use the computer and the 546 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: way they use them, like, oh man, this is an 547 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: internet company. You know you don't understand the Internet? Then 548 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: well I'm not sure. Sometimes I do want people who 549 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: are like that, but they can balance me out where 550 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: you for certain roles, you don't want them to be technical. 551 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: You wanted to actually think from a different perspective. And 552 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: I think that's good as well. But in the most 553 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: general sense. You know, if you've got a hotmail address 554 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: and you're coming to an interview with me, nah, like 555 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: two thousand and two is finished now. 556 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some fun strategies any other go to questions 557 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 2: that you're asking in the job interview itself. 558 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: You know, I asked a lot of people like, so 559 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, what's your superpower? I love to know if 560 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: you're self aware, if you're committed to, you know, refining 561 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: yourself to work out what is your best genius self? 562 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: You know, I'd love to hear people. I also love 563 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: it what's the hardest job you've done? You know, if 564 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: you if your hardest job was well, I used to 565 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: work eight hours at the cinema and I used to 566 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: collect the stubs so that people would go in, and 567 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: it was long and now and it was boring and lahlah, 568 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: I'm like okay. Whereas one of my guys said, well, 569 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: during the day, I used to work at a call 570 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: center and sell you know, electricity prians, and then I'd 571 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: go to university for two hours. Then I'd leave and 572 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: go and deal cards at the casino, come home at 573 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: one o'clock and do it all again for seven days 574 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: a week. And I did that for three years. And 575 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to work with you because I 576 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: have that same work ethic. You know, That's what I have. 577 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: So I want to work with people who work hard. Yeah. 578 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Now we're almost at a time, So I 579 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: have one final question for you, Fred. If people want 580 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: to connect with you, connect with the work that you're doing, 581 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 2: what is the best way that people can do that? 582 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: Follow me on LinkedIn. I'm very active, very very active 583 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. I do have an Instagram profile where I 584 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: have a team that basically follow me around and take 585 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: videos and photos and write down what I'm thinking at 586 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: the time, and you just. 587 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: Type my name fantastic. Do you want to spell that 588 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 2: out for people? Fred? So people to have to spell 589 00:31:59,360 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: your surname. 590 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,719 Speaker 1: It's like the best Star, but it's Shibesta so s 591 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: C H E B E S t A, It's just 592 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: Fred at the start. 593 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 2: Wonderful And I will link to your Insta and LinkedIn 594 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 2: accounts in the show notes. Well, Fred, it's been fascinating 595 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 2: chatting and hearing about the different strategies that you use, 596 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 2: particularly your sleep. I'm somewhat tempted to try it, although 597 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 2: being a recovering insomniac, I worry it will cause more 598 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 2: problems in my life than good potentially, But thank you 599 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 2: so much for your time. 600 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: Oh you're welcome, and thanks everyone for listening. 601 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 2: That's it for today's show. If you are enjoying How 602 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 2: I Work, why not leave a review in Apple Podcasts 603 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: or where you listen to this episode. It's awesome getting 604 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 2: feedback from listeners, so thank you if you are one 605 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 2: of the several hundred people that has now left a 606 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 2: lovely review for How I Work, And if you haven't, 607 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 2: maybe today's the day. Well that is all for today 608 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 2: and I will see you next time.