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Speaker 1: As I said earlier, I'd love to get on the

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Speaker 1: show this morning and talk about other things happening around

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Speaker 1: the territory, but unfortunately the crime that we've seen over

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Speaker 1: the last week is again dominating headlines.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday in Alice Springs, two senior Territorians in their seventies

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Speaker 1: were held at knife point. On the weekend, we know

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Speaker 1: a couple in the Northern Suburbs were held at knife

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Speaker 1: point and their vehicle was stolen. Our good mate, Matt Cunningham,

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Speaker 1: well he had golf club wielding youths at his place.

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Speaker 3: He says they looked.

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Speaker 1: Around twelve thirteen trying to get into his home on

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Speaker 1: Friday night or in the early hours of Saturday morning. Now,

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister joins me in the studio. Eva Laula,

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Speaker 1: good morning to you morning, Katy, Thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: your time this morning. Now, Chief Minister, to say that

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Speaker 1: Territorians have had a gut full, I think is an understatement.

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Speaker 1: We've learned yesterday morning that two senior Territorians in their

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Speaker 1: seventies were held at knife point in their homes after

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Speaker 1: five male offenders kicked in the front door at that residence. Now,

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Speaker 1: police say that the offenders were armed with edged weapons.

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Speaker 1: They've demanded money, cigarettes and alcohol, with one offender holding

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Speaker 1: a knife to the female victim's throat as those demands

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Speaker 1: were made. At one point, the female victim ran out

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Speaker 1: through the rear door while chased by two male offenders.

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Speaker 3: She's called the police.

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Speaker 1: The two male offenders have then jumped the reoffence of

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Speaker 1: the property, fleeing the premises. Chief Minister, how do you

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Speaker 1: feel when you hear about incidents like this?

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm shocked as anybody, and it actually makes

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Speaker 2: me feel very, very sad, not just the old people,

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Speaker 2: but everybody a matte story as well.

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Speaker 4: It is just its apporrent behavior.

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Speaker 2: And you the eighteen year old rolling in the car

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Speaker 2: and then all these mates leaving him like that's unfathomable

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Speaker 2: to me as well. It's just yeah, all parts of

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Speaker 2: this are things that really just make me feel sad

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Speaker 2: more than anything. I guess speak for the territory. It's

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Speaker 2: in bar Field, sad but frustrated it as well. That

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Speaker 2: you know, if there was a quick fix, I'd be

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Speaker 2: onto it. I can assure territorians you know, this is

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Speaker 2: hard slogging work that's needed between the government agencies. But

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Speaker 2: you know, to the people who have been impacted by

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Speaker 2: any crime, you know, any crime, you know, my heart

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Speaker 2: goes out to them because I know how it makes

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Speaker 2: people feel, and I really don't want to see any

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Speaker 2: crime in the territory. That would be a nice day, Katie,

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Speaker 2: when I get when we get together on a Monday

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Speaker 2: morning and we take.

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Speaker 3: Talking about other stuff, that's right.

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Speaker 4: It'd be lovely to be talking about renewables.

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Speaker 3: And that's it or something. But unfortunately, at the moment

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Speaker 3: it's just not the case.

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Speaker 1: I mean, small kids held up a couple with a

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Speaker 1: knife in the Northern Suburbs.

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Speaker 3: Now they stole their car.

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Speaker 1: According to reports in the NT News, before another group

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Speaker 1: stole the car from the initial group.

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Speaker 3: Now kids turned up.

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Speaker 1: Then, as I've mentioned, to Matt Cunningham's place with golf

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Speaker 1: clubs on Friday night, they tried to smash his doors

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Speaker 1: trying to break in.

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Speaker 3: He called Triple zero, was on hold for five minutes.

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Speaker 1: No police turned up because they were under the pump

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Speaker 1: with more serious incidents.

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Speaker 3: To you, is that acceptable?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 4: No, absolutely not acceptable.

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Speaker 2: And that's the review of policing that will be coming

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Speaker 2: out in the next couple of weeks literally and that

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Speaker 2: will provide direction to government around additional resources for the police.

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Speaker 2: So we know the issue around that the number of

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Speaker 2: crimes keeps increasing. You know, some of the work that

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Speaker 2: Brent Pott has done as Police Minister is around the

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Speaker 2: Territory Safety Division, so escalating the police numbers. The other

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Speaker 2: one was the announcement recently around converting palis to constables

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Speaker 2: as well, so getting more of those paris who've got

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Speaker 2: some ground level training to be able to fast track

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Speaker 2: them into constables. So we're doing the work to get

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Speaker 2: more police on the ground, you know, more boots on

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Speaker 2: the ground, more vans on the road. But it is

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Speaker 2: making sure that we can have three or four or

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Speaker 2: five vans or however many and you know that's up

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Speaker 2: to the police, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, people don't feel safe in their own homes.

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Speaker 1: This is the concern that we've got. They don't feel

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Speaker 1: safe in their own homes. You know, even for me,

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Speaker 1: before last week, I'd have thought if a group of

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Speaker 1: kids was walking towards me, I might feel slightly concerned,

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Speaker 1: but I wouldn't be worried that they're actually going to

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Speaker 1: get up in my face and then try to flog

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Speaker 1: my phone from me, and I also, you know, I

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Speaker 1: would not think that they're going to then go and

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Speaker 1: and have knives and go elsewhere and effectively rob other premises.

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Speaker 3: Like right now, it feels like there is a real

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Speaker 3: feeling of lawlessness, Chief Minister.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely apparent behavior. And when you hear about fourteen year

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Speaker 2: olds stealing cars off people who have stolen the car,

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Speaker 2: it's almost comical really, So it is so frustrating. But

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Speaker 2: to me, as I said, it has to be this

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Speaker 2: coordinated and the work that's happening now are coordinated between

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Speaker 2: the government agencies. It's not just police, as we know,

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Speaker 2: police are doing a damn fine job every single day,

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Speaker 2: but it is the staff from Territory Families, Education and

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Speaker 2: you know I've been Education Minister. Those young people, we

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Speaker 2: need to start early with them and make sure they're

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Speaker 2: at school.

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Speaker 1: Let's go through a few of those programs because last week,

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Speaker 1: obviously we saw the eighty one year old woman who

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Speaker 1: was rolled at Casarina.

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Speaker 3: One of the kids involved was seven.

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Speaker 1: At least one of those kids then was involved in

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Speaker 1: the incidents that well with our running amuck in the

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Speaker 1: city armed with weapons, do you know what consequences those

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Speaker 1: kids have faced.

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Speaker 2: So there is a on track program. So that on

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Speaker 2: track program, it's not the back on track, but.

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Speaker 3: If you're on tract twelve, if it's not compulsory.

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Speaker 2: No so, but that on track program involves the work

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Speaker 2: with the schools activities for those kids. But there there

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Speaker 2: are able to and that's territory families taking the lead,

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Speaker 2: identify the kids, work with their families around that and

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Speaker 2: if need be, those kids need to be taken into care.

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Speaker 1: Because so do you feel like in a situation like

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Speaker 1: that from last week, what do you feel would be

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Speaker 1: in approb consequence?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know I would as a mother, I would

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Speaker 2: be if my child was brought or a child, Well,

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Speaker 2: my child wouldn't be in that situation, but as a family,

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Speaker 2: I would have to make sure that that child had

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Speaker 2: consequences at home as well. So it would be making

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Speaker 2: sure that they were at school every single day, that

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Speaker 2: they are embedd at a regular time, that they had breakfast,

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Speaker 2: that they had a you know, but some.

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Speaker 1: Of these these kids said aren't right like this, this

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Speaker 1: is the whole problem.

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Speaker 2: So it is about them taking them into care where

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Speaker 2: that child.

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Speaker 1: Get it feels like they're being held to ransom by

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Speaker 1: these kids. They feel like they're you know, we feel

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Speaker 1: like there is there is no consequence, rightly or wrongly.

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Speaker 1: That's how people feel at the moment. I keep thinking

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Speaker 1: to myself, you know, like you said, you're feeling sad

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Speaker 1: about it. I keep thinking to myself, is this a

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Speaker 1: place where I should raise my kids? That's how people

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Speaker 1: That's how long term territorians are feeling.

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Speaker 3: And I don't want to give up on this place.

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Speaker 2: I understand that, Katie, and you know absolutely as a

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Speaker 2: government we will continue to and you know, to me,

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Speaker 2: it's that analogy, as I've used before, you squeeze the balloon.

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Speaker 2: You're having to tighten and tighten and tighten around these

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Speaker 2: young kids.

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Speaker 3: But so when kids are not at school, what happens.

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Speaker 1: So on Monday, for example, those kids that were roaming

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Speaker 1: the streets, what happens.

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Speaker 2: So they're in education, there are you know, whether the

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Speaker 2: terms truancy officers or engagement officers, there are people in

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Speaker 2: schools whose responsibility, sorry in the department, whose responsibility it

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Speaker 2: is to keep an eye on the kids that aren't attending.

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Speaker 4: So they see that data.

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Speaker 2: But in schools, in our own schools, in every school,

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Speaker 2: every government school, there may be an Aboriginal Island or

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Speaker 2: education worker, or there may be an assistant principal whose

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Speaker 2: job it is then to look at their role see

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Speaker 2: which children aren't turning up, contact the parents. Parents are

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Speaker 2: supposed to contact the school when they don't attend.

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Speaker 1: So last Monday, for example, do we know if they're

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Speaker 1: local kids? Do we know if they're visiting from somewhere?

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Speaker 1: Do we know what the said suation was?

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Speaker 3: Still?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually don't know myself. But education would have

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Speaker 2: that information on that child, and territory families would have

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Speaker 2: the information on that child. So those children then are

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Speaker 2: individually followed up one of the schools in my electorate.

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Speaker 2: Or I have Molden, Gray Driver, I have low socioeconomic

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Speaker 2: schools in my electorate, and I know in Molden they

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Speaker 2: continue to follow up with students. Same with Gray. They

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Speaker 2: have a bus that'll go around and pick up kids.

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Speaker 2: They'll support the kids through breakfast programs. So the schools

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Speaker 2: continue to work very very hard to get kids to

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Speaker 2: school every day, but parents also need to get them

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Speaker 2: up every day and get them to school.

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Speaker 1: But so at the moment, Chief Minister, again, I just

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Speaker 1: want to I really want to nut this out right

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Speaker 1: because it seems like we are seeing based on the

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Speaker 1: reports that we're receiving and based on what people are

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Speaker 1: actually contacting us about at the moment, like there are

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Speaker 1: kids that are under twelve that are running a mark

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Speaker 1: and they're not fearing any consequence. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: raising the age of criminal responsibility has worked?

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Speaker 4: Well, Katie, that was a recommendation from the Royal Commission, So.

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Speaker 3: Will you regret implementing it?

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, that was a recommendation of the Royal Commission,

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Speaker 2: and that we're beholden. You know, that was a federal

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Speaker 2: government push from the federal government to do that. But

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Speaker 2: what we need to continue to do is to work

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Speaker 2: with those families. And that's the work that I've been

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Speaker 2: talking about and today I'm going to be making announcement

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Speaker 2: around a skills training center out in a remote community.

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Speaker 2: We need to do more with that. We need to

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Speaker 2: make sure that those kids are going to school, that

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Speaker 2: their families are supporting them to go to school. That's

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Speaker 2: the long term solutions. Short term solutions is to have

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Speaker 2: territory families stepping in and working with those families because

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Speaker 2: obviously those families are struggling to control their kids.

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Speaker 1: I want to go through a couple of things, the

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Speaker 1: raising of the criminal age.

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Speaker 3: Do you think it's working? But you know, Katie, in.

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Speaker 1: All seriousness, do you think it's working at the moment

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Speaker 1: when we see what's going on around the place.

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Speaker 4: But Katie, that wouldn't make any difference.

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Speaker 2: Do you think those kids are going to go, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to commit a crime because I'm seven or i'm.

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Speaker 1: A I think that kids at the moment aren't worried

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Speaker 1: about the consequence.

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Speaker 2: Kids are these kids that we're talking about aren't worried

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Speaker 2: about consequences because they've had either you know, shocking lives.

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Speaker 1: Where So, how do we how do we now stop

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Speaker 1: the rest of the community, law abiding citizens from being

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Speaker 1: targeted because it feels as though there's a set of

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Speaker 1: rules for some.

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Speaker 3: And there's a total other set of rules for others.

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Speaker 2: Those rules are the same, Katie, whether you're you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you're you know you're talking about

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Speaker 2: an Indigenous or non indigenous.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about people that are breaking the law and

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Speaker 1: those that aren't.

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Speaker 2: But all that's the you know, that's the legislation, that's

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Speaker 2: the rules for all of those those kids. But you know,

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Speaker 2: even if there was a change of raising the age.

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Speaker 2: It then goes before the courts and what happens is

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Speaker 2: those kids, they are seven, eight, nine, they need to

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Speaker 2: be put and you know, in a place with a

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Speaker 2: family who can actually turn their lives around, put boundaries

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Speaker 2: in place, get them into bed, get them to school.

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Speaker 2: They're the things that are seven or an eight year

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Speaker 2: old needs, not being in detention. That's not going to

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Speaker 2: fix that child. We know that that's just going to

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Speaker 2: make a child that's in the criminal justice system and

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Speaker 2: make that there are consequences you can put in for

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Speaker 2: a young child.

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Speaker 1: Do you concede at the moment, So, whether it's the

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Speaker 1: raising of the criminal age, or whether it's the knife

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Speaker 1: crime strategy, or whether it's our legislative you know, whether

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Speaker 1: it's our legislation in place at the moment, do you

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Speaker 1: can see that the policy settings that we have got

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Speaker 1: in place right now don't seem to be working.

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Speaker 2: Not necessarily the policy settings, Katie, it's the resources that

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Speaker 2: these large numbers you know, well large numbers, large numbers

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Speaker 2: of territorians across the territory that are complex, that have

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Speaker 2: additional needs. That's the work that needs to be done.

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Speaker 2: And you know, that is around additional funding from the Commonwealth,

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Speaker 2: around education, around health, so that you can assess these

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Speaker 2: kids young and get them in to a place where

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Speaker 2: they can be successful, where they if they need additional support,

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Speaker 2: they can be in a special school or a place

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Speaker 2: where they need support.

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Speaker 1: So, Chief Minister, at this point in time, do people

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Speaker 1: just have to wait and hope that there's change.

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Speaker 2: No, No, there is every single day territory families, and

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Speaker 2: you know it'd be probably useful to get someone like

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Speaker 2: we've had them, Emma on every single day. These people

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Speaker 2: and you know, these people work really hard, just like

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Speaker 2: the police. Territory family staff, education staff work really hard

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Speaker 2: to keep these kids on the straight and narrow to

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Speaker 2: make sure they're doing the right thing. But as I said,

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Speaker 2: it is the families that are struggling, and that's the

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Speaker 2: work that we need to do to continue to get

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Speaker 2: these families so that they have the skills to be

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Speaker 2: able to discipline their children. And that's also what I

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Speaker 2: hear from these families is we can't smack our kids

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Speaker 2: or but it's like, well, you know, it's not just

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Speaker 2: smacking your kids, it's being able to say no to

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Speaker 2: a three or four year old. So that you can

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Speaker 2: say no to a seven year old, so you can

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Speaker 2: say no to a fourteen year old.

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Speaker 1: I just want to like, I want to make it

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Speaker 1: really clear this week in Parliament, is your government looking

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Speaker 1: at doing anything legislation wise or changing anything in this

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Speaker 1: space at this point.

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Speaker 2: No, there is no legislation particularly around directly around youth crime.

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Speaker 1: But there is legislation for example, there's anything that there.

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Speaker 2: Is legislation around things that will support these young children,

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Speaker 2: and that is that will improve their situation them particularly

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Speaker 2: around housing.

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Speaker 3: What is going to change to support the victims.

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Speaker 2: So we've increased funding for victims of crime, will continue

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Speaker 2: to do that. But Katie, it is that work around

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Speaker 2: the police review, more money going into police, more money

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Speaker 2: going into domestic violence. Those are the things that will

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Speaker 2: make a difference to these young children's lives. These young children,

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Speaker 2: if you're talking about seven or eight year olds, we

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Speaker 2: need to continue to start earlier and earlier around programs

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Speaker 2: like families as first teachers. There is no legislation that

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Speaker 2: you can bring into around a seven year old this

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Speaker 2: week that's going to identify a seven year old and

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Speaker 2: change that and stop that seven.

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Speaker 3: Year old thing we've been hearing from the Northern Territory government.

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Speaker 1: We've been hearing from the Northern Territory government that it

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Speaker 1: is generational change. I mean, a seven year old that's

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Speaker 1: under the generation of the labor government of the time

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Speaker 1: that you guys have been in and if anything, those

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Speaker 1: crime stats are going up, those number of victims are

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Speaker 1: going up.

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Speaker 2: But there are plenty of and you know, the vast

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Speaker 2: majority of seven year olds do the right thing. In

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Speaker 2: the Northern Charritory, the vast majority of parents do a

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Speaker 2: really good job with their kids. There will be some

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Speaker 2: children that for whatever reason their lives have been they've

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Speaker 2: had a terrible life and that they feel that that's

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Speaker 2: something they need to do. If the CELP or anybody

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Speaker 2: thinks there's a quick fix to a seven year old

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Speaker 2: involved in crime, I can tell you there is no.

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Speaker 1: Think definitely fixating on the seven year old when the

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Speaker 1: fact is there's like there is actual you know, a

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Speaker 1: group of kids under twelve, over twelve, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: some that.

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Speaker 3: Are older than that.

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Speaker 1: You know, we saw the situation in Alice Springs where

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Speaker 1: there's a car crash. One of these eighteen year olds

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Speaker 1: is dead. Following on from that horrific incident, there is

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Speaker 1: so much happening at the moment that is that's heartbreaking,

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Speaker 1: you know, and the public's demanding change and they're feeling

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Speaker 1: like the government's digging their heels in, rightly or wrongly.

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Speaker 2: It's not digging their heels in. Government is continuing to

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Speaker 2: work with the public sector, the people that we have

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Speaker 2: in the public sector, which will be doesn't matter who's

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Speaker 2: in power, you work with the public sector, the people

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Speaker 2: in there. So whether that's Michael Murphy, whether it's Emma White,

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Speaker 2: whether it's all the people in there who have years

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Speaker 2: of experience of addressing these issues, of working with young people,

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Speaker 2: they're the people who provide the solutions to government. They're

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Speaker 2: the people that will step up and suggest things the

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Speaker 2: victims or ranity.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the victims of crime could actually

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Speaker 1: be involved in that discussion as well, though? Do you

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Speaker 1: think that, you know, I like hearing from them and

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Speaker 1: what they are saying at the moment could be useful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I absolutely they are. And I formally meet

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Speaker 2: with people that have had break ins literally in my

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Speaker 2: electorate office on a Friday this Friday. Last Friday, I

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Speaker 2: met with people who have been victims of crime. I

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Speaker 2: do that every local member does that, so they hear

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Speaker 2: those stories, let alone when we're out and about informally

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Speaker 2: having that, but we have formal meetings with people and

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Speaker 2: I always ask that can you provide me with any idea,

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Speaker 2: any solution, something that you think that we're missing, what

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Speaker 2: the gap is, things that we can do, And usually

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Speaker 2: the suggestions are the things that we are working on.

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Speaker 2: And they all understand that this needs to be consistent,

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Speaker 2: hard work. There is no quick fix. That's what any

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Speaker 2: government needs to do to address crime, and that's in

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Speaker 2: the whole of Australia, not just in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: All right, Chief Best, I'm going to move along. I

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Speaker 1: know you're for time as am. I Now I need

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Speaker 1: to ask about the police Minister Brent Potter. Why are

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Speaker 1: you continuing to support him after it was revealed that

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Speaker 1: he'd shared numerous posts on social media that was sexist, racist,

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Speaker 1: anti semitic, critical of labor and homophobic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Brent, you know they were historical social media posts.

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Speaker 2: He has said he's an idiot.

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Speaker 4: I agree.

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Speaker 2: I said that very loud and clearly to him, that

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Speaker 2: he was stupid. But there are plenty of stupid people

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Speaker 2: out there. That have social media posts, historic social media posts.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you I've got two grown up children,

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Speaker 2: and I spent their teenage years saying, you know, my.

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Speaker 4: Daughter's a lawyer. One day you may want to be

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Speaker 4: a judge.

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Speaker 2: Stop putting up social media posts around that you think

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Speaker 2: that may be totally unacceptable. You know, drinking alcohol, you know,

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Speaker 2: skimpy clothes, all of those sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: So people do post stupid things, but they don't then

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Speaker 1: become ministers.

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Speaker 3: And that's the problem. I suppose that that.

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Speaker 4: Is it is a problem.

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Speaker 2: But I think a lot of CEOs, the AICD, the

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Speaker 2: company directors. This is things that we're all grappling with

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Speaker 2: now from those early years of social media where people

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Speaker 2: may not have been actually so aware that that their

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Speaker 2: digital footprint stays with them forever. So I look at

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Speaker 2: what I can control and what I can't control. I

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Speaker 2: can control as chief minister, our current ministers, our current

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Speaker 2: MLA's behavior. Sprent, I think was pre selected in August

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Speaker 2: or elected in August twenty twenty two. He's assured me

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Speaker 2: since that time he hasn't done any reposting or any

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Speaker 2: of those sorts of things. He said he wasn't proud

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Speaker 2: of it. But those things they don't define him. He

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Speaker 2: has now been he's now matured. He is a hard working,

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Speaker 2: very committed to improving the safety issues and safety in

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Speaker 2: community safety issues in the Northern Territory. And I think

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Speaker 2: as a police minister, he's doing a good job. He

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Speaker 2: has worked hard, he's focused, he's working with police. He

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Speaker 2: strives every day to make our community safe, safety safer,

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Speaker 2: and that's what my focus is for him.

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Speaker 3: You're a tough woman, right. I know you're a tough woman.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that listen to this show

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Speaker 1: who've known you for a long time. Every time you

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Speaker 1: come on, we get people contact us and you know,

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Speaker 1: they say, I've known either since you know.

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Speaker 3: For a long long time. You're a tough lady.

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Speaker 1: Why are you letting someone like Brent Potter and Chancey

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Speaker 1: Peg with his Shares scandal really tarnish you and your team?

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Speaker 2: It's actually not that at all, Katie. You know, I've

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Speaker 2: played a lot of team sports and led a lot

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Speaker 2: of people. You know, I've probably been a leader and

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Speaker 2: a manager of people for at least twenty five years. Katie,

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Speaker 2: What do you have to do as you step through

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Speaker 2: these things? You bring the people in, you sit them down,

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Speaker 2: you get someone else who's you know, can investigate and

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Speaker 2: provide the facts to you. You have a look at

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Speaker 2: the issue and then you make a decision around that.

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Speaker 2: But also, as someone who's been a team person, you

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Speaker 2: also need to wrap around that person because they don't

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Speaker 2: want to be in trouble. Let's face it, Brent has

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Speaker 2: had a shocking week. He's ashamed of himself, he's embarrassed,

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Speaker 2: he wishes he'd never done that. Those were, as I said,

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Speaker 2: historical things. So as a person who's led a team

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Speaker 2: and managed people, you're dealing with human beings. Every job

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Speaker 2: I've ever done, I've had people that have stuffed up.

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Speaker 2: But it is then how you wrap around them. You

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Speaker 2: can't just boot them necessarily. You have to actually look

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Speaker 2: at who and what they're doing now and admit that

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Speaker 2: probably all of us have made mistakes, said things, done

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Speaker 2: things that we're not proud of.

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Speaker 4: And that's the situation here.

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Speaker 3: Chief Minister, we are going to have to wrap up.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you very quickly, what is on

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Speaker 1: the agenda for you as the Chief Minister this week

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Speaker 1: and next week when Parliament sits.

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Speaker 2: So I've got the wagering bill. That's the number one

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Speaker 2: for me. But also we've got some important people in

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Speaker 2: town this week, so there'll be some really big announcements.

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Speaker 3: So the Prime Minister and others their cabinets.

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Speaker 4: I've been trying to think.

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Speaker 2: I think this is probably the first time in probably

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Speaker 2: the territory's history that we'll have federal cabinet in the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory, so a great opportunity. Of course, we're going

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Speaker 2: to be hitting them up for more cash, that's what

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Speaker 2: you do in the territory. But there'll be some really

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Speaker 2: good announcements this week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what are you hoping that you might be able to,

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Speaker 1: you know, to sort of push for from the federal government.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to well, you know, I've been a passion

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Speaker 2: for education. I'd like to see that education money come

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Speaker 2: through this week.

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister Evil Lawler. I always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very.

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Speaker 2: Elly, And as I said to all of those that

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Speaker 2: have experienced crime, my heart truly goes out to you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate it.