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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, if we want to raise great kids, the only

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Speaker 2: way that we can really do that is to be

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Speaker 2: great ourselves.

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Speaker 3: The better we are, the more we provide them a model.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson.

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Speaker 2: I'm the author of a bunch of books about raising

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Speaker 2: happy families and the founder of happy Families dot com

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Speaker 2: dot you. And this is the Happy Famili's podcast. I'm

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Speaker 2: here with Kylie, my wife.

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Speaker 3: And mom to our six daughters.

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Speaker 2: Kylie, we love it when we get requests from people

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Speaker 2: to help them out with some parenting challenges because this

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Speaker 2: is where we get to answer your questions podcasts at

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Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 3: Let Kylie and I know what it is that you're.

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Speaker 2: Struggling with, and we will do our best to use

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Speaker 2: our expertise. With a PhD in six books all about

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Speaker 2: psychology and parenting and our experience with.

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Speaker 3: Six kids and twenty three years of.

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Speaker 2: Child rearing, I think we could do okay, Kylie, Well,

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Speaker 2: hopefully we can be helpful.

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Speaker 4: Well, if nothing else, we can put your fears aside

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Speaker 4: because we probably don't exactly the.

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Speaker 3: Same thing we've done.

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Speaker 2: We've blown it, so your Lander now in full disclosure,

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Speaker 2: Landa didn't email us. I do some interviews on a

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Speaker 2: weekly basis with some wonderful radio hosts, a husband and

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Speaker 2: wife du I called Luke and Suzie, longtime listeners to

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Speaker 2: the podcast. We'll know that Luke and Suzie used to

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Speaker 2: have these conversations with me every week.

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Speaker 3: That's what the podcast used to be.

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Speaker 2: And so I was chatting with them recently and they said, Hey,

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Speaker 2: we've got this email from your Lander and it was

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Speaker 2: such a great email, so applicable that I asked if

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Speaker 2: I could also share on the podcast and they said yes.

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Speaker 2: So would you please read the email Kylie from your

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Speaker 2: Landa and let's see if we can help her with

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Speaker 2: her parenting question.

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Speaker 4: She said, how do I change my bad parenting habits

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Speaker 4: that negatively affect my children's behavior? I find them snapping

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Speaker 4: at each other the way I snap at them. I

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Speaker 4: try to break the habit, but I find myself feeling

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Speaker 4: guilty a few days later when I fall back into

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Speaker 4: those bad habits.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, painful, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: We've been there so many times. We still are there

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Speaker 4: from time to time.

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Speaker 2: And I just love this song. When I think of

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Speaker 2: bad habits, just I don't know, there's something that comes

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Speaker 2: over me and I feel like jazzing it up. Bad habits,

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Speaker 2: you know, the one he loves. So what do we

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Speaker 2: do about our bad habits? How do we fix that situation?

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Speaker 2: Because we know that the behavior that we display, As

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Speaker 2: Julanda has said in her email, kids copy right, there's

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Speaker 2: that old poem.

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Speaker 3: Children live what.

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Speaker 4: They learn and there's nothing more confronting I think as

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Speaker 4: a parent when you see your bad parenting displayed right

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Speaker 4: before your eyes with your three and four year old.

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Speaker 2: Or give us an example, what's happened in your life?

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Speaker 2: Have you actually seen your bad parenting moments come flying

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Speaker 2: back at you in our his interactions.

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Speaker 4: I can't think of anything right now.

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Speaker 2: I can so I used to, and it's very very

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Speaker 2: rare that it happens any longer because I'm a parenting expert.

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Speaker 2: But I used to really just blow my cool, and

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Speaker 2: every now and again I would even call the kids

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Speaker 2: a name. And when you hear them doing it to

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Speaker 2: one another, it's like, oh, my goodness, is this is

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Speaker 2: devastating and they've learned it from me. Now, often they

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Speaker 2: haven't learned it from us. They've learned it from the

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Speaker 2: school yard or from preschool or whatever. But as soon

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Speaker 2: as they start doing stuff that we know that we're doing,

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Speaker 2: it's like someone's holding the mirror up and we just.

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Speaker 3: Feel awful about it.

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Speaker 2: So there's a couple of things that we need to

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Speaker 2: highlight here, and the first is just a little bit

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Speaker 2: of understanding of how habits work, because when the children

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Speaker 2: are behaving in a challenging way and we respond poorly,

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Speaker 2: we still often get a result, and that result reinforces

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Speaker 2: the behavior that we've done, even though it's lousy behavior.

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Speaker 2: There's this thing that a guy called James clear outlines

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Speaker 2: in his book Atomic Habits, which is a really wonderful

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Speaker 2: piece of thought leadership, bringing together cutting edge science and

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Speaker 2: a really model for how habits work. And what he

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Speaker 2: says is there's four parts to a habit. The first

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Speaker 2: bit is the Q. Then there's a craving, then there's

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Speaker 2: a response, and then there's a reward. So the Q

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Speaker 2: is the thing that actually sets everything off in.

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Speaker 3: The first place.

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Speaker 4: So the kids fighting.

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Speaker 2: Perfect, that's exactly the cue. And as soon as the

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Speaker 2: kids start fighting. What's the craving that happens within us?

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Speaker 4: Chocolate?

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Speaker 2: Kindly, everything becomes a chocolate craving for you, that's not

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Speaker 2: the answer that I'm looking for.

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Speaker 3: What do you crave when the children other than chocolate?

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Speaker 3: What do you crave when the children are peace? Peace

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Speaker 3: and quiet? Okay? Great?

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Speaker 2: And so what happens then is you go from the

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Speaker 2: queue of the kids fighting to the craving for peace

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Speaker 2: and quiet, and so you respond and how chocolate brings

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Speaker 2: peace to the piece and harmony to the home and obesity.

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Speaker 3: But let's not go there.

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Speaker 2: So, so how else do you respond to the kids

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Speaker 2: fighting when you're craving peace and quiet?

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Speaker 3: What's the standard.

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Speaker 4: Standard response when I'm not thinking about anything else except

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Speaker 4: for peace and quiet? Is I usually explode and tell

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Speaker 4: them that they need to be quiet, which is ironic

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Speaker 4: because it's hardly peaceful and quiet when you do that,

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Speaker 4: But not that you do that very often, of course,

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Speaker 4: But the.

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Speaker 2: Standard parenting practice is that. And then the last part

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Speaker 2: of that is the reward. And what's the reward that

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Speaker 2: comes once you've exploded and yelled at the kids and

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Speaker 2: told them they're all good for nothing? And if they

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Speaker 2: don't stop fighting, you're going to send into their rooms,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Well, they usually will stop.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Usually, even if it's only for a couple of minutes,

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Speaker 2: they're like, oh, we've really upset mum. Of course we're

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Speaker 2: using this hypothetically. This doesn't happen in our perfect household,

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Speaker 2: right never, But this is kind of how the habit

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Speaker 2: cycle works. And because they've now gone quiet, that reinforces

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Speaker 2: the Q craving response reward loop. And pretty soon as

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Speaker 2: soon as the kids start to get stuck into each other,

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Speaker 2: the immediate response is that we blow up. Why because

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Speaker 2: we know that we're going to get resolution, it's going.

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Speaker 3: To be really fast. But we're teaching bad habits.

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Speaker 2: We're not helping the kids to work through things in

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Speaker 2: any kind of an effective way.

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Speaker 3: And I guess there's one other.

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Speaker 2: Thing that I want to touch on now that we've

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Speaker 2: talked about the psychology of the theory behind habits and

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Speaker 2: how they work and the practical aspect of that, and

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Speaker 2: the other thing that I really want to touch on

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Speaker 2: is this.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned that when the children behave in.

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Speaker 2: A bad way, that that's a reflection of bad parenting. Now,

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Speaker 2: sometimes that's true, but it's not always true. Sometimes kids

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Speaker 2: are just having a lowsy day, and it doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: how good a parent you are. The kids are having

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Speaker 2: a lowsy day. And I can't emphasize this enough. The

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Speaker 2: product of parenting, that is the outcome of parenting. The

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Speaker 2: product of parenting is not the child, it's the parent. Incidentally,

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Speaker 2: the child may be an outcome of parenting, but there's

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Speaker 2: so many other influences on the child that affect how

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Speaker 2: the child turns out. The real product of parenting is us.

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Speaker 2: And if we want to raise great kids, the only

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Speaker 2: way that we can really do that is to be

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Speaker 2: great ourselves. The better we are, the more we provide

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Speaker 2: them a model. But even then there's no guarantee. But

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Speaker 2: at least we've been better at ourselves. So let's take

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Speaker 2: a quick break, and after the break, we'll come back

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Speaker 2: and talk about some specific things that Orlanda can do

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Speaker 2: to break those bad habits and set herself up for success.

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Speaker 2: Next time everything blows up at home, it's.

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Speaker 1: Their Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 5: Our Screens Creating Tension at Home, Tweens, Teens and Screens

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Speaker 5: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen Solutions. Bye.

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Speaker 5: Today at happy families dot com dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we

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Speaker 4: are dissecting Yolander's question about how to break bad parenting habits.

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Speaker 2: So I've got a couple of really quick answers, and

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Speaker 2: I reckon you've probably got a few things to throw

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Speaker 2: in as well.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 4: There's this notion that gets bandied around all the time,

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Speaker 4: it takes twenty one days to break a habit? Is

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Speaker 4: there any truth to that?

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Speaker 2: Most science supports that at all. In fact, the best

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Speaker 2: science on this shows that, depending on what the habit is,

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Speaker 2: to take quite a bit longer to make a habit,

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Speaker 2: and habits are hard to break Chicago saying about that,

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Speaker 2: remember the song.

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Speaker 3: So there's no evidence.

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Speaker 2: At all that it takes twenty one days to make

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Speaker 2: or break a habit. In fact, the best science suggests

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Speaker 2: that it depends on the complexity of the habit. Even

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Speaker 2: learning to drink more water or do more push ups

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Speaker 2: or something like that. Really simple habits can take two

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Speaker 2: three months to really bed in. It's hard to make

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Speaker 2: and break habits.

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Speaker 4: I shouldn't really be hard on myself. If I can't

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Speaker 4: break the habit of eating too much chocolate.

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Speaker 2: We continue to try, don't we. We just continue to

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Speaker 2: work on that so bad. So here's what I would recommend.

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Speaker 2: First of all, decide ahead of time, like, just make

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Speaker 2: up your mind, here's what I'm going to do next time.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people say I want to stop yelling

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Speaker 2: at the kids. That's not deciding anything except that you

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Speaker 2: don't want to yell. But if you don't want to yell,

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Speaker 2: what are you going to do instead? It's a critical difference.

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Speaker 2: Just because you don't want to yell doesn't mean that

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Speaker 2: you know how to behave in the next challenging situation.

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Speaker 4: I've got a different response, completely different.

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Speaker 3: What's your response?

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Speaker 4: If it's a habit that I am doing and it

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Speaker 4: is being displayed in my children and they are doing it,

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Speaker 4: then I actually think there's good reason to sit down

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Speaker 4: and have a family meeting about this and get the

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Speaker 4: children's perspectives on how they feel when I do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, that's great, But ultimately you've still got

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Speaker 2: to work out what you're going to do next time.

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Speaker 2: That's different, and maybe the children need to be part

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Speaker 2: of that as well. But the kids, they've got their

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Speaker 2: l plates on right, they don't know how to regulate

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Speaker 2: their behaviors and their emotions. They're still going to blow

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Speaker 2: up the questions what are you going to do? Like

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Speaker 2: I said, the product of parenting is the parent, not

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Speaker 2: that they.

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Speaker 4: Get to help you be accountable. And I think that

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Speaker 4: that's really that's powerful.

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Speaker 2: Well, it can be yes, but accountable for what. You've

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Speaker 2: still got to decide what am I going to do

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Speaker 2: instead of yelling? And there's a million different strategies that

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Speaker 2: we could talk about to help to not yell. We

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Speaker 2: can take a deep breath, we can go for a walk,

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Speaker 2: we can speak softly, we can move in closer, we

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Speaker 2: can get curious, not furious, we can ask some questions.

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Speaker 2: We can just acknowledge that within ourselves. I'm feeling really

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Speaker 2: angry right now and I need to work out how

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Speaker 2: to respond to this challenging situation.

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Speaker 4: Well, clt it fixes everything I'm telling.

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Speaker 2: You, Okay, and there's chocolate as well. So the first

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Speaker 2: thing is you've got to decide ahead of time what

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Speaker 2: you're going to do. Second thing that you have to

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Speaker 2: do if you want to break that habit is practice

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Speaker 2: and practice, and practice and practice, because under pressure, we

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Speaker 2: revert to our most practiced habit.

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Speaker 4: So it's that groove, right, We've created.

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Speaker 3: This groove and we just slide into it.

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Speaker 4: We just keep sliding back into it because it's what

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Speaker 4: we know.

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Speaker 2: And then it becomes a rut. Ah rut, yes so,

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Speaker 2: and there's no chocolate in the rut, Kyle, right. So,

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Speaker 2: first of all, decide what you're going to do is. Secondly,

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Speaker 2: practice it, because you do revert to your most practiced,

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Speaker 2: most literally most practice behavior when you're under pressure. Third,

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Speaker 2: hold that mirror up to yourself after every interaction. When

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Speaker 2: you get it right, give yourself a pat on the bag.

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Speaker 2: Talk of the kids, Hey, kids, did you notice what

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Speaker 2: I did that time? Did you notice the I nailed it?

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Speaker 2: And if you've got it wrong again, be accountable. Review

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Speaker 2: it and your later. If you've got a husband or

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Speaker 2: a partner who's involved in the kids' lives as well,

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Speaker 2: get them to work on this with you. Practice it together,

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Speaker 2: support one another, get on the same page. That's what

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Speaker 2: I would say would be a helpful way forward when

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Speaker 2: you're trying to break a habit.

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Speaker 4: So now that you've given us all of that information

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Speaker 4: and all of those options of what we could do instead.

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Speaker 3: I feel like there's a bit of passive aggression coming

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Speaker 3: up here.

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Speaker 4: What is the take home message?

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Speaker 3: Doctor Cale s, You're so funny?

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Speaker 2: Can I actually suggest that the take home message isn't

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Speaker 2: about our habits. It's not about chocolate either. The takeout

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Speaker 2: message is not about our habits. The takeo message is

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Speaker 2: actually about our hearts. When we change our hearts, we

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Speaker 2: change the way we engage with our children.

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Speaker 3: If we can practice all.

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Speaker 2: Of those important virtues like patients along stuff and goodness

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Speaker 2: and kindness and charity and forbearance and compassion and gentleness

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Speaker 2: and love.

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Speaker 3: If we can practice those because.

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Speaker 2: They are in our heart, our children cannot help but

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Speaker 2: be drawn to us because they feel unconditionality, They feel

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Speaker 2: our absolute and complete love.

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Speaker 4: On Friday, we talked about an experience that I'd had

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Speaker 4: and the kids had really, really been unkind to each other,

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Speaker 4: and I had come in and I blew the whole

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Speaker 4: situation out of proportion. But there came a point where

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Speaker 4: I actually had to step away and get my heart

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Speaker 4: in the right place before I could make things good.

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Speaker 4: And it takes time sometimes, but the heart was what

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Speaker 4: was imperative for things to be made good.

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Speaker 3: We really hope that you've enjoyed this podcast.

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Speaker 2: We hope that it's helpful for your family and then

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Speaker 2: it makes your family happier your LANDA thank you for

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Speaker 2: letting us use your email in our podcast. If you've

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Speaker 2: got questions, we welcome them via podcasts at happy families

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Speaker 2: dot com dot au. Hey, thank you as well for

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Speaker 2: making us the number one parenting and family podcast in Australia.

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Speaker 2: The recent Australian podcast ranker came out and we're the

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Speaker 2: number one podcast when it comes to families and parenting.

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Speaker 2: It's your five star ratings and reviews that help people

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Speaker 2: to find out about the podcast and lift it up

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Speaker 2: the rankings. So we really appreciate that you listen. We

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Speaker 2: really appreciate that you jump onto Apple Podcasts and leave

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Speaker 2: the ratings and reviews, and we really appreciate the wonderful

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Speaker 2: opportunities to be in your lives, to be in your homes,

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Speaker 2: to be in your families, and to do our best

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Speaker 2: to make your family happier. The Happy Families podcast is

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Speaker 2: produced as always by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media, with

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Speaker 2: Craig Bruce, our executive producer, and if you'd like more

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Speaker 2: info about making your family happier, you can find it

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Speaker 2: at happy families dot com dot au