1
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,760
Speaker 1: You know, when you meet somebody and you kind of

2
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,680
Speaker 1: like them, you think they're really nice, but you're pretty

3
00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,440
Speaker 1: sure that you didn't leave the best impression ever. You

4
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,320
Speaker 1: feel like maybe they don't really like you, and therefore

5
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 1: the relationship, the friendship is doomed, maybe even before it started.

6
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 1: Today we talk about your kids, their friends and how

7
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 1: they can feel more likable based on brand new research.

8
00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,440
Speaker 1: It's a doctor's Desk episode of the Happy Families podcast

9
00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,159
Speaker 1: Real Parenting Solutions every Day, Australia's most downloaded parenting podcasts.

10
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: We are Justin and Kylie Colson. Kylie, there's this thing

11
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 1: called the liking gap. Researchers have known for years about

12
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,599
Speaker 1: this thing with kids as young as five as well

13
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 1: as adults. After meeting someone for the first time, we

14
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,640
Speaker 1: often underestimate how much they like us. Have you ever

15
00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,840
Speaker 1: had that happen? You're laughing like, maybe, yes, it's I

16
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,680
Speaker 1: have a great story, feel like an imposter that kind

17
00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 1: of thing. What's your story?

18
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,440
Speaker 2: It involves your mum. The very very first time you

19
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,520
Speaker 2: took me home to introduce me to your parents. Yes, yes,

20
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,240
Speaker 2: you took me down into the backyard to meet your

21
00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,880
Speaker 2: dad who was watching your younger twin sisters.

22
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have two sets of twin sisters, I mean

23
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,640
Speaker 1: whole and my youngest sets twin sisters, like fifteen years

24
00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:28,160
Speaker 1: younger than me.

25
00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they were about six at the time,

26
00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,200
Speaker 2: and they were playing on the swing set. And so

27
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,040
Speaker 2: your dad kind of he looked over, he gave me

28
00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,160
Speaker 2: a smile, you know, kind of wasn't interested in engaging

29
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:42,560
Speaker 2: in any conversation. Dad, your sisters were oblivious because you know,

30
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:43,560
Speaker 2: they were too busy playing.

31
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:44,240
Speaker 1: And there was six.

32
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 2: You then took me upstairs, and your mum was in

33
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,680
Speaker 2: the kitchen kind of organizing dinner, and she was putting

34
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,880
Speaker 2: plates together for you and I, And the next thing,

35
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 2: your sisters ran up the stairs and literally jumped on

36
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,920
Speaker 2: my lap while I was sitting on the table and

37
00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 2: couldn't get enough of me in that moment. I don't

38
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 2: remember any of this, but your mom, well, she obviously

39
00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,640
Speaker 2: acknowledged me and she said hello. But she sat down

40
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 2: next to us at the table and proceeded to have

41
00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,840
Speaker 2: a conversation with you that I would have felt was

42
00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,280
Speaker 2: a bit too personal for someone you've never met before.

43
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 2: And I didn't know where to be in the room.

44
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,239
Speaker 1: My head, my mum doesn't have filters. Let's be honest.

45
00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,320
Speaker 1: If she needs to say it, she needs to say it.

46
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:25,800
Speaker 2: She wanted to know what you were going to do

47
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,000
Speaker 2: with the rest of your life. Like literally, this was

48
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,320
Speaker 2: an urgent conversation that couldn't wait until I was not there.

49
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,840
Speaker 1: So did she not say anything like Hi, Kylie, tell

50
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:35,560
Speaker 1: me about yourself.

51
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,840
Speaker 2: No, she did launch it. She launched into this conversation

52
00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 2: with you, and I sat there the whole time thinking

53
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 2: she hates me, She absolutely hates me. It wasn't until

54
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,920
Speaker 2: later that she shared with me that the reason she

55
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,560
Speaker 2: had that conversation with you was she actually was pretty

56
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:52,960
Speaker 2: confident that I was the one.

57
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 1: Right, she didn't talk to you, You just walked into

58
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: the house, But you're the one.

59
00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 2: I'm the one. She felt really good about me, and

60
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,480
Speaker 2: she just felt like she didn't have to put him

61
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,120
Speaker 2: on any pretense, that she could just be her and

62
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,520
Speaker 2: she didn't need to worry about me because I was

63
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,799
Speaker 2: going to be a part of the family sooner or later.

64
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to the family. So I'm hearing this story and

65
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 1: we've gone so far from where we're supposed to be

66
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 1: going with the doctor's desk research. But I don't know

67
00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 1: much of this story, even though I apparently was. There

68
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,760
Speaker 1: might be worth highlighting that within two weeks of that

69
00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,799
Speaker 1: conversation happening, I had proposed, like we only dated for

70
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 1: two and a half weeks and then we had like

71
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,840
Speaker 1: an eleven month engagement while I was in mad Isa

72
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,000
Speaker 1: and you were in Brisbane and we got married. It's

73
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 1: been twenty seven and a half, twenty eight years, Like,

74
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,920
Speaker 1: how awesome is that? But the liking gap was there,

75
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,400
Speaker 1: so you've walked out thinking.

76
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,560
Speaker 2: I honestly thought she makes me hated, sheeds me? How

77
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,080
Speaker 2: was I just disliked? I actually thought she hated I

78
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 2: don't know how.

79
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 1: I don't know this story. How long was it between

80
00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:01,640
Speaker 1: you having that interaction with my mom and you discovering

81
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,600
Speaker 1: that she didn't hate you at all and that she

82
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 1: felt so comfortable that she felt like she could talk

83
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:06,320
Speaker 1: to you about it.

84
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 2: I don't think we had that conversation un till well

85
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,440
Speaker 2: and truly after you and I were married. But obviously

86
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 2: I knew she didn't hate me one sure?

87
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,040
Speaker 1: Sure? I mean maybe she was writing history. Was she

88
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,840
Speaker 1: even aware that you're in the room? Is what I'm thinking. Anyway,

89
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 1: let's talk about this clearly, you've experienced the liking gap.

90
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,359
Speaker 1: You've had a first impression with somebody, think that they

91
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,000
Speaker 1: don't like you very much, and they actually like you

92
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,200
Speaker 1: quite a lot. Some researchers at the University of Toronto,

93
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 1: I've done this really cool study, HESSEGANI to Sarah and

94
00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,839
Speaker 1: colleagues found hints as to why some people experience bigger

95
00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 1: liking gaps than others. And no surprise, it has to

96
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,159
Speaker 1: do with your mental health. It has to do with

97
00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 1: your self esteem, it has to do with your anxiety.

98
00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,200
Speaker 1: But basically here's what they found. They did three different groups,

99
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 1: three different studies, if you will. The first group, eight

100
00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty three strangers. They do this round robin

101
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 1: getting to know you session. Each chat lasts two or

102
00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,080
Speaker 1: three minutes, so it's kind of like speed dating, I guess,

103
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 1: but without the romantic overtures. And they had to also

104
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 1: fill in a scale that assessed their self esteem, their

105
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,279
Speaker 1: social anxiety, their loneliness, their life satisfaction, their perceptions of

106
00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 1: having positive relationships with other people, and their neuroticism. Second group,

107
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,080
Speaker 1: three hundred and seventy eight university students. They've had conversations

108
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 1: with a series of conversation partners about anything they wanted

109
00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,800
Speaker 1: to talk about for twelve minutes, and those students were

110
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 1: just asked to report on their self esteem. That was

111
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,360
Speaker 1: all they were measured on. Third group. I know there's

112
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 1: a lot of information, but it'll all make sense in

113
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,479
Speaker 1: just a sick Third group, four hundred and sixty five

114
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 1: US based adults have some online digital chats for twenty

115
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 1: five minutes with a stranger, just one conversation, and they're

116
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:52,640
Speaker 1: completing measures of neuroticism and loneliness after each conversation. Regardless

117
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,400
Speaker 1: of which group, every participant had to rate how much

118
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,560
Speaker 1: they liked their conversation partner and how much they thought

119
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,719
Speaker 1: their conversation partner liked them. That way, they get to

120
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,560
Speaker 1: the analysis gets to look at, well what was your perception,

121
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,280
Speaker 1: what was theirs? And how much do they marry up?

122
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,279
Speaker 1: Is there a liking gap? And they also had to

123
00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,239
Speaker 1: just say, well, this is how much I liked the meeting.

124
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,480
Speaker 1: And what the research has found, consistent with previous data,

125
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: is that the overwhelming majority of participants felt as though

126
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 1: their conversation partners liked them much less than they actually did.

127
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,240
Speaker 1: They had the liking gap that you've just described. When

128
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,760
Speaker 1: it comes to came to that first conversation that you

129
00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 1: had with my mum.

130
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,240
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me. I know we're talking about like

131
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:37,839
Speaker 2: first time conversations.

132
00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:38,240
Speaker 1: Correct.

133
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 2: I look at even some of the close relationships I

134
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 2: have in my life, and I have been blown away

135
00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,200
Speaker 2: at times when they've actually expressed how deeply they feel

136
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,719
Speaker 2: about me. I know that they're my friend, I know

137
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,359
Speaker 2: that they love and appreciate me, but the times that

138
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 2: they've actually shared specifically how they feel has just it's

139
00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,960
Speaker 2: blown me away because I would never have assumed the

140
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,160
Speaker 2: depth to their feelings.

141
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,040
Speaker 1: As you're saying that, you've just prompted something really big

142
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:11,840
Speaker 1: for me. I think this is super important that I

143
00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,120
Speaker 1: hadn't planned on mentioning in this pod. But when I

144
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,720
Speaker 1: write Misconnection, that book about teenage girls, I ask girls

145
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 1: what made their lives the best, and they said friends.

146
00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 1: And then I said what makes your life the worst,

147
00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,040
Speaker 1: and they said friends. But have listened to some of

148
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 1: these quotes. I've just dragged it up as you were

149
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,760
Speaker 1: sharing precisely that story. This is what some of the

150
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 1: girls said to me, and I quote word perfect quote,

151
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 1: none of my friends really like me. I worry that

152
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 1: people don't like me how my close friends actually see me.

153
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 1: I have a massive fear that everyone around me is

154
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,440
Speaker 1: just putting up with me until I leave them alone.

155
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,360
Speaker 1: This one said, the thing I worry about most is

156
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 1: that by the end of high school, people are still

157
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:48,920
Speaker 1: going to think of me as a nerd with no

158
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,920
Speaker 1: boyfriend and no social life. This worries me because what

159
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 1: if it's true? And so what you can hear is

160
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,880
Speaker 1: this desperation like do In fact, one girl said, here's

161
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,560
Speaker 1: another quote fitting in. I really love my current group

162
00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,239
Speaker 1: of friends, but sometimes I feel like I just generally

163
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 1: don't fit in. In other words, while this study and

164
00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:15,560
Speaker 1: most research on the liking gap refers to initial introduction relationships,

165
00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,640
Speaker 1: this is ongoing, right. I mean, even as an adult,

166
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 1: do you I know I do. Sometimes I think I

167
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 1: wonder if my friends actually like me as much as

168
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,480
Speaker 1: I like them, because I'm so grateful for my friends,

169
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,760
Speaker 1: but I'm the one that often makes the calls. They're

170
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 1: not calling me, Does that mean that they don't like

171
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 1: me as much? Yeah, there's this liking gap. So after

172
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,240
Speaker 1: the break, because we've talked way too long, because I

173
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 1: got carried away with what the girls are saying. After

174
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 1: the break, we're going to talk about two, three, maybe

175
00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,360
Speaker 1: four things that you can do as a parent if

176
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,000
Speaker 1: your kids are feeling insecure about their relationships and feel

177
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,040
Speaker 1: like they're not necessarily well liked, whether it's meaning new

178
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 1: people or in their current friendship group, to make the

179
00:08:49,960 --> 00:09:01,000
Speaker 1: relationship feel safer and stronger. Olie the liking gap. The

180
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,480
Speaker 1: data is there, the results are in. We feel like

181
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: people don't like us as much as we hope that

182
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,760
Speaker 1: they like us, and not as much as we like them.

183
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,760
Speaker 1: And it seems that it's mostly not true, like most

184
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,160
Speaker 1: people like us more than we think, not less. Most

185
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,400
Speaker 1: people accept us more than we think, not less. Obviously

186
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,800
Speaker 1: for being bullied, you're hanging around with the wrong people.

187
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 1: There's need to change things up. But this matters when

188
00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 1: you listen to the details of that study. Does anything

189
00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:29,440
Speaker 1: stand out to you, like, what would you say to

190
00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,000
Speaker 1: parents based on what this liking gap research seems to indicate.

191
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 2: I think back to that first meeting with your mum

192
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:38,920
Speaker 2: and the things that we've already discussed.

193
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this sounds like this was so pivotal in

194
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 1: your life and I don't even remember it. I feel

195
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 1: so bad. Anyway, back to the.

196
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 2: Wainy, but you were getting a hammering from her probably,

197
00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,959
Speaker 2: And you've acknowledged the importance of self esteem and confidence.

198
00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,000
Speaker 2: And I think back to who I was back then.

199
00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 2: I'd grown up with that generation where kids were supposed

200
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 2: to be seen, not heard, and so I never really

201
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,559
Speaker 2: felt like I had a voice. Had I have been

202
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,760
Speaker 2: someone who was confident in myself and knowing your mum

203
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 2: as well as I do now, she would have relished

204
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 2: and absolutely she would have literally drawn every last breath

205
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,160
Speaker 2: out of me when it came to what my opinion

206
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,320
Speaker 2: was based on your conversation with you.

207
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:24,040
Speaker 1: Is that person.

208
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,960
Speaker 2: She would have wanted it. But I didn't have the

209
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,400
Speaker 2: confidence or the self esteem to believe that I had

210
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,040
Speaker 2: anything worthwhile to share.

211
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 1: And there it is again, there's the self esteem issue,

212
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,520
Speaker 1: the anxiety issue, The liking gap exists because of what's

213
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,880
Speaker 1: going on in our heads. It's like imposter syndrome in relationships,

214
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:41,559
Speaker 1: that's right.

215
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 2: And so for me in that moment, I just wanted

216
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,840
Speaker 2: to dig a big hole and bury myself in it, like,

217
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 2: just get me away from this. And so when I

218
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 2: think about what this study is sharing, what it's gifting

219
00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,640
Speaker 2: us is if parents, if we can give our kids

220
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 2: are voice. This is really tricky, right, This is really

221
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,400
Speaker 2: tricky because we really love it when the kids just

222
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,720
Speaker 2: do what we ask and they don't question us, and

223
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,160
Speaker 2: they don't you know, talk back to us. But they

224
00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,320
Speaker 2: need to know that their voice matters. They need to

225
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,240
Speaker 2: know that they actually have amazing things to contribute to

226
00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,720
Speaker 2: the world, and when they feel comfortable to share that,

227
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,280
Speaker 2: this is less of a problem.

228
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,160
Speaker 1: Okay, I've got a quick comment to make about what

229
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,560
Speaker 1: you've just said, and then I've got three quick takeout

230
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,320
Speaker 1: messages from the study, from my mind, from the Doctor's Mind.

231
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 1: You don't like Doctor's Desk episodes. You get frustrated when

232
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,320
Speaker 1: we have to talk about research science, and look at

233
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,240
Speaker 1: you go. You are all in I'm just so excited

234
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,640
Speaker 1: about this. You say, yeah, all right, here are my

235
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,480
Speaker 1: three takeovers. Oh you've got more. Sorry, Well, you have

236
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:50,440
Speaker 1: a voice, so use it.

237
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 2: I think. The other one that's really really important is

238
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:55,920
Speaker 2: to assume positive.

239
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 1: Intent, right right right.

240
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 2: We are constant assuming the negative when we think about

241
00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 2: other people. I mustn't like me. I I was so silly.

242
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,000
Speaker 2: I can't believe I said that.

243
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,800
Speaker 1: We get so in our heads and it's all about us. Essentially,

244
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 1: we are the center of our own universe.

245
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,400
Speaker 2: Yes, about us, but if we would give positive intent

246
00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 2: to other people and give them the benefit of the doubt,

247
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 2: that would make such a difference to our interactions on

248
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,000
Speaker 2: a day to day basis.

249
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,520
Speaker 1: We're ultrasocial. We're supposed to make friends, We're supposed to

250
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,800
Speaker 1: connect with people. It's how we're built, it's how we're designed,

251
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 1: and I just love that. Okay, may I now share

252
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 1: my useful take homes from this study for parents if

253
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,319
Speaker 1: their kids are struggling with friends, or if you've got

254
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,920
Speaker 1: more go through it. Okay, here we go. I need

255
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,720
Speaker 1: to do this quickly because we're almost out of time.

256
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking over my doctor's desk episode.

257
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 1: Here's the bottom line from the study. From my perspective,

258
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,240
Speaker 1: your child walks away from interactions feeling like they're bombed,

259
00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,760
Speaker 1: when in reality, they've probably scored and they don't even

260
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,720
Speaker 1: know it. And if they have loads of esteem, or

261
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,400
Speaker 1: if they have any sort of anxiety or anything like that,

262
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,679
Speaker 1: that's only going to be amplified and exacerbated. So we

263
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 1: need to teach our kids one simple truth, and that

264
00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,240
Speaker 1: is that the person they've just met probably likes them

265
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,920
Speaker 1: a lot more, not less than they imagine. And if

266
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,080
Speaker 1: they're in a long term relationship with with a group

267
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:17,839
Speaker 1: of friends like the girls that I read out from

268
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,960
Speaker 1: my Misconnection book, then that is only more the case. Now,

269
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,439
Speaker 1: is it true that there are sometimes ruffling of friendship feathers? Yeah,

270
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,760
Speaker 1: of course, But that doesn't mean that they don't like you.

271
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,160
Speaker 1: That just means that relationships can be tricky sometimes, and

272
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,480
Speaker 1: we repair and then we rupture, and then we repair

273
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,000
Speaker 1: and then we rupture, and that's the nature of relationships.

274
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 2: But I think it's really important to highlight within that

275
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 2: that a lack of self confidence and self esteem play

276
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,640
Speaker 2: a huge part in the ruffling of feathers more times

277
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 2: than not.

278
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,719
Speaker 1: Well, And that brings me to the second takeaway from

279
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,640
Speaker 1: the study, and that is that your child's insecurity is

280
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 1: probably the problem rather than their actual likability. Your child

281
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,120
Speaker 1: is likable, but their insecurity makes them feel like they

282
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 1: are not likable. It's the insecurity that makes them feel

283
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 1: like they're unlovable. The math doesn't lie here. When we

284
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 1: teach them that friendship anxiety is a software bug rather

285
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 1: than a hardware problem, what they then know is, oh okay,

286
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,240
Speaker 1: so people can like me, people do like me. I'm

287
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,040
Speaker 1: the one that's getting anxious about this. There's not really

288
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 1: a problem here at all, I think. I mean, what

289
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 1: a confidence booster. It's hard to argue with the voice

290
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,720
Speaker 1: in your head that's saying the opposite, but the data

291
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,280
Speaker 1: bears it out. Third one, I think that we need

292
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 1: to teach our kids to focus on the quality of

293
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 1: the interaction rather than obsessing over this invisible scoreboard in

294
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,560
Speaker 1: their head. When they're fully present in conversations, when they're engaged,

295
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,280
Speaker 1: when they're asking questions, when they're listening, when they're sharing ideas,

296
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:46,000
Speaker 1: the anxiety inducing mental math becomes completely irrelevant. They can

297
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,160
Speaker 1: make friends, they're likable, they're worthy, and that I think

298
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,320
Speaker 1: this is a study that gives us great hope if

299
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,960
Speaker 1: we can just help our children to understand that they're

300
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 1: in their heads too much. But if they can just

301
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 1: accept that because they're having an interaction with somebody and

302
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,480
Speaker 1: because it's ended on a positive note, it's probably gone, well,

303
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,400
Speaker 1: that should be enough. So that's my doctor's desk, that's

304
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,040
Speaker 1: our doctor's desk. We will link to the study in

305
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 1: the show notes for those who are interested in the

306
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,600
Speaker 1: social psychology of the likability gap. I think it's fascinating stuff.

307
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. The Happy Families podcast is

308
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 1: produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. For more information

309
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 1: and more resources to make your family happy at visit

310
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 1: us at happy families dot com dot au