1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Get a I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter, 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: and professional overshaer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: because I believe it's a chance for us to learn, 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: a different guest about their highs as well as their lows, 6 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. 7 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: Today on the pod, we have the I would say 8 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: one of the most celebrated entertainment journalists, Jmo. He covers 9 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: everything from film, TV, music. He's had over two decades 10 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: of experience in this industry. I'm going to say more 11 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: than that because I feel like he is the go 12 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: to person. And before we sat down for this chat you, 13 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: JMO had this book coming out called Mental as Anyone, 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, is it anyway? I know it's 15 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: a bargo, but can I please read it? And he 16 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: let me read a copy before we sat down had 17 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: this chat. The good news is it's now officially available 18 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: everywhere wherever you get your books from. He also has 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: a pod with the same name. And the way that 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: JMO shares not only in his book, but when we 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: chat today, you'll hear he tells stories in a really accessible, vulnerable, 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: open way. So it's a very much what you see 23 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: is what you get kind of human being. I would say, 24 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: I hope you love this chat. He's really honest and 25 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: he's just himself, which I love. Also love snakes. So 26 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: we go down a bit of a rabbit hole there, 27 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: all right, Huru, enjoy this chat, JMO. You're incredible, strap 28 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: yourself in JMO. Welcome to the pod. You, my friend, 29 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: are I think the quintessential Australian entertainment journalists you've been? 30 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: I've certainly been doing it for long enough. I don't know, 31 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: over twenty years, right, I have to google what quintessential means. 32 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: I mean, I do know what it means. It's one 33 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: of those big words, isn't it anywhere? 34 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: And I say, you don't use big words, but you 35 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like if I think entertainment reporter, 36 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 1: I think JMO. 37 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've worked at this for a long time and 38 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: I pride myself in doing what I do. I hate 39 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 2: being called a gossip reporter. Yeah, gossip journalist, and a 40 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: lot of people call me that, and a lot of 41 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: people would see me as that, So thank you for 42 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 2: calling me an Entertainment Report entertainment journalist, because I've done 43 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,839 Speaker 2: a lot of amazing things in that realm, and part 44 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: of that is gossip. But I've interviewed a lot of 45 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: people and had an amazing life. 46 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 3: So yeah, I am. 47 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: I guess Quintessentials of Entertainment Report. 48 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: Harsh celebrate, celebrate yourself. 49 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 3: My friend, not very good at that. 50 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: No, well, there's a few topics that I'm so excited 51 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: to talk to you about that are not heavier, but 52 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: like things that people don't chit chat about as much. 53 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 2: Nothing's off Limit's stay babe, you can anything. 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: Sign me up. 55 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 3: I scrunch and I fold. Really honestly, I'm uncut. 56 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: Are you both snipples pissed? Well? 57 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: I just whatever I feel like? When you got pet snakes, right, 58 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: I've got. 59 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: I had five, but I just offloaded one of them 60 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: because it was a temporary care snake. I volunteer for 61 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: Wires Animals, and so that snake has been gone to 62 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: another carer. But I have four in permanent care. Are 63 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: They all carry Elizabeth and Ginger great names. Three of 64 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: them are pythons, and one of them is a night 65 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: tiger or a brown tree snake. 66 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: Oh okay, so like all non venomous. 67 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: The night tiger is venomous, but only mildly so like 68 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: a little herd gives you a bit of a nip, 69 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: you know. 70 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a weird fascination with snakes. I've spent 71 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: a lot of time living in Byron Bay and they're 72 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: just in your backyard. 73 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, you get, you get night tigers up there. 74 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: But the variety that I have is more of a 75 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: Northern Territory, North Australia variety, which is quite sexy. You know, 76 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: it's okay, quite a pretty special life, whereas the ones 77 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: that you get down here are more just run of 78 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: the mill brown tree snakes. 79 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: Oh I love all this, Okay. 80 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 2: So but yes I can handle an Eastern brown or 81 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 2: a red belly black. 82 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: I've done all the training. No, I get scared of that. 83 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: I did a rescue the other day and it was 84 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 2: really sad. Actually it sort of fits into the conversation 85 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: around mental health. But you know, I live in a 86 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 2: city of Sydney and I'm taking this on a tangent. 87 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: But a lot of the rescues I do for snakes 88 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: are people that are not mentally well. 89 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: So I had to do one in redfern. 90 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: That was a gentleman that was on level eighteen of 91 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: one of the high rise buildings, and I had I 92 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: felt so bad for this gentleman because he was hallucinating 93 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: that he saw snakes that I live really had to 94 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: pretend that I caught the snake. I don't know if 95 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: I'm if that's immoral, I don't know. I was trying 96 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: to do what was right to not make him feel 97 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: other And then I spoke to people about it behind 98 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: the scenes and said, hey, this guy needs a welfare 99 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: check and we've got to do whatever. But yeah, some 100 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: of those, most of my rescues for snakes are not 101 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: hairy ones like I don't live in the Blue Mountains 102 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 2: or in bathist. 103 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: Or can I can I say that living in Los Angeles, 104 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: the rattlers. I've seen five rattlesnakes in LA Yeah, Santa 105 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: Monica Mountains, hiking right next to. 106 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 2: My leg e one when I was a new podcast 107 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 2: and You're like, everyone's great with this and they're hot something. 108 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 3: King in this and I'm like, oh my god, LA's got. 109 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: To that girl. 110 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: Yes I have. It's so wanky, it's so stupid, And 111 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: I say ERA one and it's so stupid. It's such 112 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: a stupid place where you pay seven hundred and fifty 113 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: dollars for a stupid juice and here's this tonic for. 114 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: This and that. Yeah, I mean it's great. 115 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: I go in there and I'm like, this is rich, 116 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: and then I go and like want to buy stuff 117 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 2: and then no way, it's stupid. Everyone's stupid. It's for 118 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: rich celebrities. Okay, So people that want to be celebrities 119 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: that are all like I. 120 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: Want to live that life, so straight out of the gate. 121 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of yours, but I am going 122 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: to disagree with you on the Air one. It's so 123 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: close to my house. 124 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 2: If I could afford it, I would go there every day. 125 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: It's literally our date, Sunday date, Like it's time for 126 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: Air one line. 127 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 3: Podcast makes a fortune. Who's your sponsor? 128 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: Hopefully air one one? Right? 129 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you? 130 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: Okay, So I definitely want to talk about mental health. 131 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: I'm really passionate as well, But I also want to 132 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: talk about your career because I didn't know you're a 133 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: camera boy. You you've trained, right, you've got. I studied journalism. 134 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 3: I went to Camber UNI. 135 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I I did a double major in broadcast and 136 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: print journalism. I did a little cross institutionally, did Australian 137 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: National US and did German language studies at a knew. 138 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: So that was my UNI stuff. But I was plagued 139 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 2: by self doubt and so I was like I'd always 140 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: got to tutors and be like the one that never 141 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: wanted to read out my work and things like that. 142 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: It was just like, I'm a shit journalist anyway, here 143 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: I am a journalist twenty five years later or whatever 144 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: it is. I did work experience at Australian Associated Press 145 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 2: when I was at my second year of you at UNI. 146 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: I did a year of UNI, I had a nervous 147 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: breakdown and I took a year off and then I 148 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: went back for my second year and my third year. 149 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: So for the second year I got a job working 150 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: twenty hours a week as an editorial assistant at Associated 151 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: Press in Parliament House in Camera and that was great. 152 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, what a way to case amazing. 153 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: Like I wanted to be a serious journalist, but I 154 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 2: didn't want to be doing this Instagram shit with influencers 155 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: in bikinis. I wanted to do like legit, you know, 156 00:07:54,560 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: foreign correspondence, serious stuff. I'm very passionate about politics and 157 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: very passionate about those sorts of things, global affairs, and 158 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: so yeah, that was my first love and my first job. 159 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: And at the end of my UNI, basically you have 160 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 2: an opportunity. The next step once you study is to 161 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: get a cadet ship. And so everyone that's at UNI 162 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: they apply for cadet ships, whether that's at what was 163 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 2: Fairfax back then for me, but it's at nine now 164 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 2: and then at Newscorb and then the ABC and then 165 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: you know, some people want to go into TV and 166 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 2: got a regional TV whatever. I got a cadet ship 167 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: at AAP which was seen as one of the cream 168 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: of the crop ones because it was a national thing. 169 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: I got to move to Sydney rather than live in 170 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 2: the back boomdogs of somewhere. Yeah, and it was amazing, 171 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: best thing ever, best training ever. We learned shorthand. We 172 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 2: did eight hours a week of shorthand with our fingers. 173 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: No wonder I've got arthritis in my thumbs sitting there 174 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: riding your shorthand. 175 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: Doing all that. It was amazing. 176 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: It was so good the training, and in that training 177 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: to spend time in sport and finance and state politics, 178 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: which was boring compared to federal politics and then courts 179 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 2: and general news, And so I feel like I know now, 180 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 2: even though it's been a long time, that I could 181 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 2: jump into any area and cover a straight news story 182 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: on that basis. 183 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: I mean, how good is that to have that confidence 184 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: within his I know we're going to talk about self doubt, 185 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: but like to know that you've got those chops and 186 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: that training behind you, I have to ask to and 187 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: I've i've I think I read this last night. Is 188 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: it strange to the No, is it strange to then 189 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: write a book about yourself? And to the listener, there'll 190 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: be pre order links in the show notes, But is 191 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: it strange to then go, like, get really used to 192 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: talking about and reporting on very strange? Yeah, And then 193 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: every brought me mental as anyone, Mental as anyone. 194 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 2: And it's a hard and it's the same as my podcast. 195 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: But the book is not the podcast. It's not a 196 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 2: compilation of interviews or anything from that. The book is 197 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 2: a mental health journey that I've been on meets self help. 198 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: And I've got an amazing woman by the name of 199 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: doctor Jodi Loringer who's come on board, and she's basically 200 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: I've written the book in four different parts and different themes, 201 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: and then she's pulled out that stuff and we've sort 202 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 2: of come up with a bit of a toolkit for survival. 203 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: Is she psych Yeah, yeah, psychologist. 204 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. So hopefully through sharing my story it will enable 205 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 2: other people to feel less alone, as cliched as that sounds, 206 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: but also, you know the themes are, it's broken up 207 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: into different things, so life and death and then. 208 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 3: Depression and whatever. 209 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: I can't remember that, I've got the thought that's I 210 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: was saying. I'm at the four point sexuality, addiction, self esteem, 211 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: life and death. 212 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so I've got life and death right. 213 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: But you would have written this is for the listener. 214 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: You would have written this book a while ago. How 215 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: long did it take you? 216 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: So everyone thinks, like I thought that writing a book 217 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: would be really intense, and it was, and it is. 218 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: But I write for a job, right, So I write 219 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: several thousand words a day sometimes, so that's a lot. Yeah, 220 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 2: just if you're thinking of a few thousand words. Any 221 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 2: a written news story that you'd read in a newspaper 222 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 2: online won't be five hundred words if it's a long story. 223 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 2: So if I write five of those that's two and 224 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 2: a half thousand words. 225 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: What's your book like eighty thousand words? 226 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I during COVID, I I've always had 227 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 2: this niggling feeling that I needed to write some stuff 228 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: to get it out of myself, because I was the 229 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 2: sort of person that suppressed it. And despite the fact 230 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: that I'd had like an immense amount of counseling and 231 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: done a lot of work on myself, I still had 232 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: all this stuff buried inside me. And so during COVID, 233 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: one thought that I would write a celebrity book and 234 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 2: do all the celebrity gossip, and I'm just I just 235 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: thought that was so boring. I'm like, that's whatever, Like 236 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 2: who cares? And I still want to work, so I'm 237 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: not ready to retire yet. So at one point I 238 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: might do that, but because it is ridiculous, the shit 239 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 2: that goes on, it's all eraon, stupid, dizzy fairy flose shit. 240 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: But the book that came out of me was my story, 241 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 2: and it was written as a memoir, the truth, and 242 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: it was what I did was I was like, here's 243 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: a story, and I would hit the pavement. I went 244 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: down to the South Coast for like a period during COVID. 245 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 2: My aunt's coast house called Villa Costa Plenty. That's what 246 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 2: the family coast houses, you know that have those little 247 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 2: names in the front because it cost a bloody fortune. 248 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 3: Pople just sink into it. 249 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 2: And I set myself up and I was determined to 250 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: do two hours minimum of writing a day or typing 251 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 2: a day. And some days I would do that and 252 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: other days I would do six hours. But so over 253 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 2: two weeks I wrote the book. 254 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: That's I've written a bunch of books. And that's incredible. 255 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: Like I've thought, I'm good if I can get a 256 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: book out in three to four months, right, and and 257 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: I got pictures in mind, I can hack it out. 258 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: I look, yeah, I'm not saying it was great. That 259 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: was my first, but that's the hardest bit. And I 260 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: got it out, and was it? 261 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: Cathart. 262 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: I had a girlfriend with me, and Amanda down with 263 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: me down the coast because we're both in hiding during 264 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 2: COVID and bunker down, and she'd read the chapters each night, 265 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: and yeah, it was. 266 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 3: It just fell out of me. 267 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 2: And like I said, I was going to write two 268 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 2: hours a day, and most days I would write more 269 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 2: than that, or i'd just be like, I've got to 270 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 2: get this out of me. I'd get up in the 271 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 2: morning and I'd be like, this is a topic, this 272 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: is a story. I'd go for a walk because that 273 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: was my way of clearing my head. Yeah, and I'd 274 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: dictate into my phone and I would tell the story, 275 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 2: and then I would go back and sit at my 276 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 2: computer and transcribe it. 277 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: That would be the way that I'd get it out 278 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: of myself. That's such a good thing to share, though, 279 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: because I think everybody's writing method is completely different. Like 280 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: I'll get Butcher's paper out and I have to mind 281 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: map it all out and see it before I can 282 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: see I've got adhd. 283 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: I don't even I had no idea what the fucking 284 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: book was going to look like. I just I just 285 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: focused on each chapter, and then I had like forty chapters. 286 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: I was like, shit, Oh. 287 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: Well, thank you for being cheeking sharing the intro with 288 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: me last night. There were a lot of bits that 289 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: I loved about that intro. But the thing that like 290 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: rang true to me is I think as well, as 291 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: I turned forty this year, and as you get older, 292 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: you just your tolerance for bullshit kind of like goes out. 293 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: The window, and you just say like, this is my 294 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: truth and I just want to share my truth. And 295 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: straight away I was like, oh, well, I'm going to 296 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: be able to relate then because you're not wearing a mask. 297 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: You're just and I don't know if you remember, but 298 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: you and I have crossed paths career wise a few 299 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: times many over the decades. I feel but I. 300 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: Don't know if I remember. Jesus Christ, I do have dementia, 301 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: but it's not that bad. 302 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: No, But I feel like a little pip squeak compared 303 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: to like you've come Madonna, and then you know what 304 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: I mean, Like, so one thing that I yeah, I 305 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: love this concept of sharing your truth. 306 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 2: We're all pipsqueaks, just for the record, all of us, 307 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: all of them is your thing. 308 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: Everyone's the same, right, And you say that we all 309 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: have insecurities, every single person and celebrities are the worst, 310 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: really the worst. And how do you feel or see 311 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: those insecurities? Like do you can you just feel it 312 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: innately because it's something that you can feel within your mind. 313 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 3: Every single we're recording this in a radio studio. 314 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, every single radio person I've ever met is so 315 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 2: plagued with insecurity and self doubt. Elissa is she's just nodding, 316 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: knowing what it blows my mind? Like they come off 317 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 2: here and they're like, is that okay? 318 00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: Was that okay? Was that okay? 319 00:15:59,200 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 3: Oh my god? 320 00:15:59,640 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: Did I do? 321 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 3: Did I say this too much? And that's exactly me. 322 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: That's what I do. Do you ruminate? Will you think 323 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: about something and keep it in your lives? 324 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: In my hand? But I think that's something that everyone feels. 325 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: But I think perhaps in the creative field, maybe it's worse. 326 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 2: I have I suffer from. I've got a long list 327 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: of ailments, mental health ailments, from ADHD to depression to 328 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: severe PTSD to whatever. 329 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: I'm feeling very slivey. There's our audiogram, there's our. 330 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 2: It's a list. 331 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: So what was I saying? So we're talking about everyone 332 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: having insecurities. But the thing that I'm really excited to 333 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: chat to you about with the book is self doubt. 334 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: And I know that's a huge topic. I know you 335 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: talk about it on your pod. I know you interview 336 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: people that have these incredible careers, are totally financially stable, 337 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: and it's like it's almost like no one gets away 338 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: to go free. We all feel self doubt. In one 339 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: way or another. 340 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 2: I think once you realize that in life, I think 341 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 2: life's a little bit easier to handle because you know 342 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 2: that it's less scary when you're stepping into a room. 343 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: I have to ask you though, because to me, you 344 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,239 Speaker 1: have always felt so confident. I know, like people will 345 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: find me scary. Yeah, I've never been scared of you. 346 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: But I've always known you as like very confident and clear. 347 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: You've always been a very clear communicator, and I know 348 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: you have trained people on like media training, training and 349 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. Friend of mine train with you 350 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: and said it changed your life. Christy Morris, Oh yeah, yeah, 351 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: love her and she's like completely changed my life. And 352 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: I just think that's obviously we see you on the 353 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: outside as it's confident, go getter and like, you know, 354 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 1: one minute you're in La. I think I've reached out 355 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: to you when you're in LA and be like can 356 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: you jump on the pod? You're like, bab, I'm already 357 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: on a flight back to Australia, And I just want 358 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: to know, like when it comes to self doubt for you, like, 359 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: how does that manifest for you? 360 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: I mean, walking in here today, I was like, God, 361 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 2: I hope I'm not too boring. I hope I've got 362 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 2: something to say. So to people that are listening, I'm sorry. 363 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: If this is boring, tune out to the next episode. 364 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 2: We'll just go back and listen to the last episode again. 365 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 2: Like I said, I think if you realize that everyone 366 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: has the same insecurities to different degrees, then I think 367 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 2: life is a bit easier for me. It manifests in 368 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 2: the sense that how does it manifest. My brain kind 369 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: of works differently but the same. I just think I've 370 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 2: always thought I'm not good enough always. I never thought 371 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: from school, I was the fat kid, I was the 372 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 2: ugly kid. I was the gay kid who didn't know 373 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 2: he was gay. That was, you know, picked on for whatever. 374 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 2: I just never felt good enough, and I still don't. 375 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 2: I still often don't feel good enough. Most of the days. 376 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: I look like today, I look in the mirror and 377 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 2: I'm like, all I can see is fat, All I 378 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: can see is ugly. All I can see is my 379 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: fifteen chins. And I'm not saying that to get compliments, 380 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 2: to say, hey, Jmo, you know, I don't need you 381 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: to pat me on the back. That is where my 382 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 2: brain naturally goes and I've done a lot of work 383 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 2: on myself, so I know that a lot of that is. 384 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: Like body dysmorphia. Yes, how do you feel about therapy 385 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: and mental health work? I know you've done, so I 386 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: have to do it. And I you know, at the moment, 387 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm in a pretty good spot because I'm very self aware, 388 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: like so self aware it's ridiculous, isn't that that? I think, Yeah, 389 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: that's okay. Maybe I'm too self aware. 390 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 3: I'm an open book. 391 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: I walk and go, hey, yeah, I've got depression and 392 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 2: I've got ADHD and. 393 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: And people like, holy. 394 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 3: Fuck, who is this? 395 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: Dude? 396 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 3: What the ship? 397 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: But don't you think self awareness and like the commitment 398 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: to whether it's therapy or some form of mental health 399 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: work is essentially a superpower. Like people will say to me, 400 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: watcha keda success, and I on the days I definitely 401 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: don't feel successful, I'll be like therapy and like and 402 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: and sitting in the ship and like sitting in the 403 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: discomfort and getting a non biased opinion to be like, hey, actually, yeah, 404 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: that is your body's I look. I looked in the 405 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: mirror this morning and was like, you're fat, like full, 406 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: you're not. 407 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 2: But do you know what I'm shook it by your hair. 408 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 2: But you've dyed your hair black. 409 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: Yeah you're not. You're not a fan of the black hair. 410 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: I just don't know. 411 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 3: It's just really thrown me. 412 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: Do you know what made me actually do it? It's 413 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: so embarrassing. I watched Riverdale and I thought Cole Sprouse 414 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: was so hot, and I figured out he was naturally 415 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: blonde and had dyed his hand black. And I was like, well, 416 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: the blue eyes with the black hair, that's great. I'm 417 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: just not used to it because that picture on the 418 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: wall there is not blonde. I'll be back there, so 419 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: fun just mix it up. 420 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, but anyway, I hear you. 421 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: I know we all feel this. Yeah. 422 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 3: I've done a lot of therapy. I'd like to do more. 423 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: My favorite therapy that I did was sort of disguised 424 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 2: as yoga retreat in Romania, Romania with a girlfriend, and 425 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: so I went there and did a week of yoga. 426 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 2: I can I can't even sit cross legged. So this 427 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: was just ridiculous and weird. 428 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: And there was talk therapy as well. 429 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 2: No we didn't, we just did, you know, the basics, 430 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: but we ate vegan food and I don't trust vegans. 431 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: It freaks me out, Oh, well, you're not a first 432 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: person to say that. 433 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 2: I mean, I do trust them, but it just like Vegan, 434 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 2: like everything tastes like cardboard. 435 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: That's so funny. Okay, So right before we hit record, 436 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm going to see you ex recording. 437 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 3: Yeah shit, I thought we were recording. 438 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: But we were talking about your upcoming book and you 439 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: were like, well, I'm so scared what if it doesn't sell? 440 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: And I think it's this idea of or what if 441 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: people don't like it, or what if it's a failure. 442 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: And I think that, like anyone that does anything creative 443 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: that is effected like that, they put their heart on 444 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: the line. I think there's always that like oh what if. 445 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: Like I'm in acting school in LA. Every time I 446 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: put a scene up, I'm like, oh, what if I 447 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: bomb right now? Like what if this is the worst thing? 448 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: Like what if I'm the oldest person in the room, 449 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: like all this shit, social media, all of those things. Look, 450 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: I'm shitting myself right now. Because the book's out in 451 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: a few weeks and you can do a tour. I'm 452 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: going to do a little bit of a tour and 453 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: I haven't even. 454 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 3: Got that far yet. I don't la. 455 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 2: Doing books is you know, it's all in the smell 456 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 2: of an oily rag and you just do what you 457 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: can do. So I, yeah, I will do stuff, but 458 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: I'm begging, borrowing and stealing. It took you a while 459 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 2: to get your book deal, right, It took four years, 460 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 2: And part of that was I wrote it and then 461 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 2: I just chucked it in the draw, yeah, metaphorically. And 462 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 2: then I spoke to one big publisher and they drag 463 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: things on for about a year and they're like, actually, 464 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: not sure that's for us at the moment. Okay, very 465 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 2: fucking much, because it was for you six months ago 466 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 2: when you were telling me you were interested. 467 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of that. 468 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: And then I go to another publisher and they're like, oh, yeah, actually, yeah, 469 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 2: we are interested. Let me sit with that and we'll 470 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: have this meeting with that, meaning they'll take this to 471 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 2: this person and they'll take it to that person, and 472 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 2: that goes on for another six months. 473 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: Right after you, I'm interviewing Candas Fox's our most celebrated 474 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: crime fiction author. Two hundred rejection letters. Yeah, like so 475 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,959 Speaker 1: I don't And that's the thing, like, and that's why 476 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk to you about rejection as well, 477 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: because I think we see like JMO, like, yeah, you're 478 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: interviewing like sure, Madonna like all these incredible Jane Fonda, 479 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: by the way, was she amazing lover? I'm obsessed, lovely 480 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: kind lovely. 481 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: I mean, look, they're doing media, right, so I'm not 482 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: hanging out in their kitchen just having a chin wag 483 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 2: over a couple of teas. 484 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 3: So it's. 485 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: It's it's a very controlled situation. Share is incredible. Really still, 486 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 2: I've met her that many times. I still don't even 487 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 2: know how to say it. Name probably is sure. 488 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 3: I don't know either, Share. 489 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: Sure, you've got a good American accent going on you there. 490 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: But didn't you do it? Wasn't Averill Levine that she 491 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: was hungover and. 492 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 2: You guys just like a couch? 493 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you do? Was that in the book? 494 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: That wasn't in the book? That was your research? A 495 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: jeep dive. I'm such a nerd. 496 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: I'm so terrible. 497 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: I don't do any research. When I go into an interview, 498 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 2: I have a look quick look at Wikipedia. I know 499 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: roughly who the person is, and I'm like, yep, cool, 500 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 2: what are you doing? And I throw it all on 501 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 2: them and then when they this is my I'm letting 502 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 2: my secrets out, and when they don't have anything, I'm like, yeah, 503 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: but come on. No. I did that with Jeremy Piven 504 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 2: the other day and I said to him, right, so 505 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: tell me what you're gonna you know, what's funny? What's 506 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 2: what are you going to do on stage? 507 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: Stand up now? 508 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 3: And he's like, well, why don't you put. 509 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 2: A bit of luber on first before you throw into 510 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 2: getting me tell you what's what's funny. 511 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 3: We'll get some ammal as well. Thanks mate? 512 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: Did you say that? Yeah? How did he take it? 513 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 2: Uh? 514 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, fine, kind of a bit of banter, but it 515 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: was a bit dry humor. No, I love it. I 516 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: love it. Yes. 517 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: Avril Levine and I we did an interview in London. 518 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 2: She was hungover as fuck and we're in this amazing 519 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 2: suite and it's just really end up just lying on 520 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: the couch. I can't remember if I was hungover or not, 521 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: but yeah it was. She was very hungover. 522 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: But this is what and what you said about this 523 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: was like it was just so real. It was like 524 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: you got this real moment. It wasn't You're usually interviewing 525 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: people when they're on this media junket, and so the 526 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: answers are often rehearsed. 527 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 2: On the stupid American publicists and the control of that stuff. Yeah, 528 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 2: sorry to stupid American publicist. You're not all stupid, just 529 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 2: some of you are very controlling and that does more 530 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 2: damage than good. 531 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: Can I say some of my favorite interviews I've done 532 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: with people in America and they've had no mind is no? 533 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: Do you find like when people are just they are 534 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: the easier they are to deal with? 535 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 3: Probably? 536 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: Don't you reckon? 537 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 3: Often? Not always? 538 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: So how on earth did your pod come about? Because 539 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: you're such a natural speaker. But we're talking now, so. 540 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 2: You know the podcast came about because I was kept 541 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: getting rejections about the book, so you like stuff this 542 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know what, this is a really 543 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 2: important message. 544 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: We're all mental as anyone. 545 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: I don't know if the book, what's going to happen 546 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 2: with the book, but I still think there's stories to 547 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 2: be told in sharing our common thoughts around mental health 548 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 2: and do we have similarities? 549 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: And that was my idea. 550 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: And so I spoke to a girlfriend of mine, Lucy 551 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 2: and Sarah, two girlfriends, they're two different people. 552 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: They don't know, it's not. 553 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 3: Someone with marsh and they're like, you know what, let's look, 554 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,479 Speaker 3: what do you do the podcast? 555 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 2: So I met with Darcy who produces the podcast, and 556 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 2: it just felt right, and we dived in and do 557 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 2: you dive in or do you dive in? Both dived 558 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 2: We jumped in and I'm the journalist asking this question, 559 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 2: catching myself and meetating myself on the way, and I 560 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: felt this strange sense of clarity and validation that that 561 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 2: that I was on the right track and that what 562 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 2: I thought was right, Like it was sort of in 563 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 2: my head like I thought that, yeah, that's what it is, 564 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 2: but then it was true. And Guy Sebastian was opening 565 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: up about incredible things in his life and insecurities, and 566 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: Michael Clark as well, and Robert Irwin and Jackie o 567 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: Midlissa Leon. 568 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: You know, how do you find long form interview because 569 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: that's quite different to what. 570 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 2: You're It's not a gotcha situation either, So you know, 571 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 2: you just say to people, don't talk about anything you're 572 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: not comfortable with. I'm not going to push you in 573 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 2: that direction. If you don't feel comfortable, then we're not 574 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 2: going to go there. Mental health is such a personal thing. 575 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 2: So the podcast came out and I funded at all, 576 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 2: you know, I had some sponsors, which was amazing, and 577 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: then it came out and I did a season launch 578 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 2: and on the day that I did the season launch, 579 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 2: I was carrying bottles of booze that I was that 580 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 2: I'd bought from BWS and just doing it all myself. 581 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 2: And I got an email fell into my inbox and 582 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: it was a woman by the name of Jordan Lott 583 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: and she works at why oh yeah, I know she 584 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 2: used to work in podcasting, and she said, you interested. 585 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 2: We've been looking at this, We've noticed your podcast. Are 586 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 2: you interested in writing a book for us? 587 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: She's lovely, she's amazing. Oh what a good person to 588 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: champion you. 589 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 2: And so I. 590 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 3: We jumped on the phone immediately because I had a number, 591 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 3: and I said, well, I've alread written it. 592 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: Let's do it. 593 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: And so the book that i'd written was just my story. 594 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 2: And so we went back and forth and back and forth, 595 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 2: and that was basically a year ago. Things don't move 596 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 2: quickly in publishing. 597 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: But that's always say it's twelve months like giving but 598 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: not that I have had a kid. But it's like 599 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: you signed the contract and then it's usually on sale 600 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: twelve months later. 601 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was a year ago that we had. 602 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: It was a year ago in July that we had 603 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 2: that conversation. 604 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: And it'll come out June twenty and it'll come out. 605 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 3: In June twenty five. 606 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it actually moved pretty quickly for me because 607 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 2: that was a conversation. 608 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 3: We didn't sign. 609 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: Until oh, I'm wrapped for you. 610 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 2: I'm a team very good with the day. So yes, 611 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: what Jordan's been incredible and got an awesome editor, Kerry 612 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 2: London who's based in New Zealand, who has been going 613 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 2: through my copy and how. 614 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: Good is it as a creative having a team that 615 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: champions you, whether it's pod, whether it's book, whether it's 616 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: I think it's really important to have the people around 617 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: you that believe in you, especially when you're sharing something 618 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: so vulnerable that is your not just mental health journey, 619 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: but I feel like you're sharing your like what's and 620 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: all truth. 621 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: I think they'll think I'm a lazy author as well, 622 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: because Kerry when I was, when she was editing things, 623 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 2: she can here's a suggestion for this, and I'm like. 624 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: Sure, like I'm not precious about any of that. But 625 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: that's a way to get a good book. 626 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I trust you. I've been journalisming for 627 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 2: years and years and years. I'm not precious. Here you go, 628 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 2: here's what I've done. Tell me what you think is 629 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 2: going to work. Because I can't look at the bigger picture. 630 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 3: I just find it. 631 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: Even now, I find it impossible to see the whole picture. Really, 632 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: I find it. 633 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: Really you're more like specific folks. I'm going to dive 634 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: into the chapter and carry fisher. I'm going to dive 635 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 2: into the chapter on a donna. I'm going to dive 636 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 2: into the chapter on suicide or ideation or whatever you know. 637 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 2: And then but I can't. 638 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 3: I can't. I can't. 639 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: I struggle to see how the whole thing works. 640 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 2: I can. 641 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 3: I am the. 642 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: Opposite of you. I have to see big picture and 643 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: work back. I've got five year plans, ten year plans, 644 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: Oh my god, freak, control freak. Whereas I feel like 645 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: you always. 646 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: You were talking about packing for coming to Australia, and 647 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 2: You're like, I've got to pack and then repack, and 648 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: then I've got this many books on this and the other. 649 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 3: I've got books that I haven't. 650 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 2: Finished reading from six months ago and whatever they were 651 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: be stacked up next to the bed. I'm going to 652 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: Melbourne tonight just for the night. I've got a massive, 653 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: like the biggest suitcase, and I just threw it all 654 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 2: in there. 655 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: No, absolutely not. Did you fold or roll any of that? 656 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 3: Definitely didn't fold. 657 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: You just threw in. 658 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, like three pairs of I'm going for one night, 659 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: three pairs of undies. But that's a pair of So 660 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 2: now if you's to weather this event, I'm going to 661 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 2: tonight a couple of pairs of shoes. It's the Grand 662 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 2: Prix Glamor on the Green event. Of course it's black tie. 663 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 2: I'm not going to I'm just not feeling black tie. 664 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna wear what I feel comfortable in 665 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 2: and fuck it. 666 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So this is something that I love about 667 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: the pod. Whenever I interview a creative that is leader 668 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: of their field, I imagine, imagine if like a twenty 669 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: year old aspiring journo was listening to this, what advice 670 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: would you give for like some young gum being like 671 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: I want to be a JMA or I want to you. 672 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 2: Know, don't fucking do it. Journalism is a really interesting 673 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 2: world right now. I don't want to get political, but 674 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 2: you know, we're in a Trump world. I think truth 675 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 2: in journalism and storytelling is really important. So we need 676 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: young journalists who are have strong, strong. 677 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: Self value values and morals. 678 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: Morals, but they also need to remember that your job 679 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 2: as a journalist isn't to tell your story. Every young 680 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 2: journalist that comes through wants to have an opinion. I'm like, mate, 681 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 2: you earn an opinion. Opinions like assholes, We've all got them. 682 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: Where's your line? Where's your ahole line? 683 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: How many times do I pull that all every interview 684 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 2: You've done it? And so, but it's everyone wants a fuck, 685 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,959 Speaker 2: everyone thinks they've got an opinion. So I think it's 686 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 2: journalists you've got to really pay your dues and do it. 687 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 2: I joke by saying don't do it. But it is 688 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: a tough industry. It's not an industry that you earn 689 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 2: a lot of money. It's a highly stressful, highly stressful environment. 690 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 2: It is. It is challenging because sometimes you have to 691 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 2: write about things that are really difficult, maybe things you 692 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 2: don't agree with, you know, if I'm a gay. I 693 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 2: did an interview with Anthony Mundine in South Africa when 694 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 2: I'm a celebrity, to get me out of here. And 695 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 2: he in the show, he was talking about his views 696 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 2: on homosexuality, and in the interview straight to face to face, 697 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 2: he basically said that that that it's wrong and. 698 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 3: In his belief that. 699 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 2: Gay people shouldn't shouldn't be What do you say, Well, 700 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 2: I'm not there to censor him, so I wrote the story. 701 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 2: Anthony Mundine says, x y Z. I can't remember the 702 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 2: exact quote, so I don't want to a legal issue that. 703 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 3: I think. 704 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 2: He said later that I misquoted him because he meant it. 705 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: You know, he's got gay friends, so he knows gay 706 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 2: people and they're fine something. But anyway, it's a tough 707 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 2: industry and it's also changing dramatically. But so is radio, 708 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 2: so is podcasting, so is supermarketing, so is everything in life. 709 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: Very fast, the world is a quick moving because I 710 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: think from what you've said, journalism pod like writing books. 711 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: I do think that it's a real resilience game as well, 712 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: and like being able to like stand, not to get 713 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: too whimsical and yogi on you, but like stand in 714 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: the fire and just stay calm, keep moving forward. 715 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 2: There were times that I wasn't like Lucy and Sarah 716 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 2: and my friend David as well my partner Alex. 717 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: When I was like, you know what, that's another rejection. 718 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: I can't handle any more rejection. 719 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 2: That's it. 720 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 3: I'm a failure. They're like, no, no, no, We'll go 721 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 3: to the next one. 722 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,439 Speaker 1: How good? How good having those people like those people. 723 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 3: It's just they just haven't seen it yet. 724 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 2: You know. They kept referring to Harry Potter, author whatever 725 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 2: her name is, the JK transphobia, Yeah, woman, and how 726 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 2: many rejections she got. 727 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 1: So I'm not luckying myself to her by any means 728 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: at all. Are we going to get a wizarding book next? 729 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm not doing this to become some big old your 730 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,879 Speaker 1: relationship with fame, I feel like, because you're like, I'm 731 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: not doing this for fame. I don't need to be known, 732 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: like you say, You're very open about that. 733 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 3: You're like, I like being recognized for the work that 734 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 3: I do, and I like people to. 735 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 2: Know that. And yeah, I mean I've had times where 736 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 2: I've gotten a buzz out of people going, oh, you 737 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 2: got that guy that I saw on X y Z. 738 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 2: Normally it's a homeless person that's got my head that 739 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 2: they've picked up. They've picked up the paper, and there's 740 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 2: my head in the newspaper, and there's my dinkersh. I 741 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 2: know you. 742 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: Like you like the fame game that much. As far 743 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: as for yourself, it just. 744 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 2: I mean, what is fame. It's just a stupid concept. 745 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 2: I want to be recognized and acknowledged for doing good 746 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 2: things in life. But I have to say, and it 747 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 2: goes back to what I said before about doing the 748 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 2: podcast and then the book and whatever. I love being 749 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 2: a journalist, but the work that I've done in having 750 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 2: conversations around mental health is the most important. 751 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: Stuff that I've done in my life. 752 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 2: If I got hit by a bus today, I would 753 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 2: hope that that's what I'm remembered for, not for writing 754 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 2: a story about some person on Home and Away and 755 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 2: there's no dissingc to Home and Away. 756 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: Well, I think as well. I took this from your 757 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 1: intro of your book. It's like telling a story in 758 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: an accessible way, and I think that's what the part 759 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: is for you. And I think that that going by 760 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: the intro is what your book will be like, sharing 761 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: that honesty really vulnerable, but also in a way that 762 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,320 Speaker 1: people can pass. But see themselves or relate to it 763 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 1: in some way. 764 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 2: The book has everything you know, being sexually abused, it 765 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 2: has suicide attempts, it's had, it's got everything in it, 766 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 2: and it does have a smattering of celebrity stories. 767 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: But I felt that if I wasn't gonna. 768 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 2: If I expect people to be truthful and honest with 769 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 2: me in conversations that I have with them as my 770 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 2: day to day in my day to day journalism, then 771 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 2: I can't There's no point in doing a book if 772 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell the truth. People are like 773 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 2: my partner, even my twin sisters, like, oh but what 774 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 2: if what if you you admit that you take drugs? 775 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 2: That you took drugs in it? Yeah, So like, yeah, 776 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 2: I've taken cocaine. Yeah, I I've done excessive things and 777 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily proud of those things, but it's who 778 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 2: I am. 779 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So you're just like basically like, here I am. 780 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: Take it or leave it? What is your goal for 781 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: people reading book? 782 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 2: Like? 783 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: What do you want them to take away? Just see? 784 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: Like I'm going to. 785 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 2: See the message as simple as that message if the 786 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 2: message is just we're all not as different as we 787 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 2: think we are. 788 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 1: We're all a little mental. 789 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, we are all mental, and I think mentals. I've 790 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,800 Speaker 2: actually got tattoo, I know, I saw. I just I 791 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 2: think mental is such a cool word and let's celebrate it. 792 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 2: It's like I hated the word queer when I was younger, 793 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 2: and you please hear me say that in a million 794 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 2: of my podcast too. I hated it because it was 795 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 2: always other. So mental was always seen as a negative thing. 796 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 2: And I've proclaimed it and where it is this beautiful 797 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 2: badge of honor of you know, like yeah, and. 798 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: The tattoo is the same font as yeah, yeah, how good? 799 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: Don't changing the font then? 800 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: Yeah? But I like the font anyway, so it can 801 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 2: you know, there's other tattoos. I'd get rid of that one. 802 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 2: I'm I'm happy to keep Jamo. 803 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: I have loved having you on this Pard. That's a 804 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank 805 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation on Instagram. 806 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my word for podcast 807 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love it if 808 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: you could subscribe, rape and comment, and of course spread 809 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: the love.