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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 1: poor parent who just once answers. Now, I'm doctor Justin

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Speaker 1: Coilson and I'm joined by Luke and Susie. They've got

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Speaker 1: three young boys. I've got six young ish through to

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Speaker 1: oldish girls. And in this conversation I had a chat

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Speaker 1: with Luke and Susie about big mood swings.

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Speaker 2: Wilson always great to chat to you, and Carolyn wants

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Speaker 2: to talk to you too. She sent through a question

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Speaker 2: asking about teenage mood. Literally the words are just teenage

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Speaker 2: mood swings and how to deal with depression in your child.

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Speaker 2: And this is kind of a year where I think

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Speaker 2: if our children are struggling mentally and emotionally, it's going

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Speaker 2: to show up this year.

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Speaker 3: Right probably.

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Speaker 1: I read the funniest meme that I've seen in ages

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Speaker 1: around the coronavirus just recently. Had said something like the

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Speaker 1: biggest waste of money ever my twenty twenty planner.

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Speaker 4: So true, throw that in the rubbish bin.

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Speaker 1: But the problem is, you know, when you've got a

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Speaker 1: teenage girl, or when you've got a child, or a partner, husband,

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Speaker 1: wife's spouse, whoever it is in your life that matters

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Speaker 1: to you. When they're feeling lousy, what tends to happen

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Speaker 1: is their moods can cease or regulation of emotions is

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Speaker 1: a really big challenge, and when stress and duress are increased,

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Speaker 1: that regulation of emotions becomes even more challenging.

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Speaker 4: Is it justin the life experience to know how to

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Speaker 4: regulate the emotion or is there something sort of physical

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Speaker 4: or more chemical into what's causing the mood swings.

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Speaker 1: It's both, So there is a developmental trajectory of emotional regulation.

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Speaker 1: Researchers have found this for years and years and years.

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Speaker 1: We know if I mean, anyone who's been a parent

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Speaker 1: for more than five minutes knows that a brand new

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Speaker 1: baby has zero emotional regulation. They just don't have it.

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Speaker 1: And that's because the brain develops from the bottom to

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Speaker 1: the top. That is, from the brain stem up through

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Speaker 1: the cerebellum, all the way through that limbic system and

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Speaker 1: all the way to the very top where the cortex is.

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Speaker 1: But it also at the same time is developing from

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Speaker 1: bottom to top. I mean that brain stem seahbellum. That's

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Speaker 1: all about respiration and balance and keeping the heart beating

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Speaker 1: and making as breathe. All that kind of thing. It

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Speaker 1: also goes from back to front. So at the back

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Speaker 1: we've got what we call our occipital lobes. That's where

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Speaker 1: our eyes get all their information and processing and all

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Speaker 1: that thing for our site. As we move towards the front,

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Speaker 1: so right in the middle of the brain, something that

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Speaker 1: starts to develop as our children grow. You know, by

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Speaker 1: the time they're two, we call it the Terrible twos

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Speaker 1: for a reason. They're big, they're mobile, they're starting to

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Speaker 1: use their words, but not when they're becoming emotional, because

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Speaker 1: the emotional brain is just starting to really kick in,

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Speaker 1: and it's not until maybe four or five that they

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Speaker 1: start to get a bit better at it. And usually

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Speaker 1: by about the age of eight or nine, developmental psychologists

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Speaker 1: will say, well, the kids have now got a reasonable.

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Speaker 3: Grasp on what we call emotional regulation.

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Speaker 1: My favorite example of this, by the way, is Walter Mitchell,

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Speaker 1: very very very famous psychologists did this study with marshmallows.

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Speaker 3: You might have heard of it, yes, the marshmallow challenge.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 1: So for those who are not familiar with it, Walter

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Speaker 1: Michelle brings a child into the lab, usually around it

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Speaker 1: about the age of four, maybe five or six, At

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Speaker 1: the oldest puts a marshmallow on the plate in front

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Speaker 1: of them and says, I've got this for you. Oh,

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Speaker 1: but by the way, I've just got to pop out

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Speaker 1: of the office. I'll be back in a minute. In fact,

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Speaker 1: i'll be a few minutes. If that marshmallow is still

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Speaker 1: there and you haven't eaten it, when I come back,

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Speaker 1: I'll give you two instead of just the one.

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Speaker 3: And then he walks out.

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Speaker 1: This is a classic self regulation how much willpower do

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Speaker 1: you really have?

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Speaker 3: Kind of experiment, and his.

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Speaker 1: Research shows that people who are able to regulate their

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Speaker 1: emotions better children go on to lead more successful lives.

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Speaker 1: And that kind of makes sense, right. If you can't

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Speaker 1: regulate your emotions, you can't sit in class, you can't study,

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Speaker 1: you can't learn if you can't regulate your emotions. Somebody

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Speaker 1: says or does something that you don't like and you

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Speaker 1: lash out, you say horrible things to them. You can't

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Speaker 1: keep a job, you're going to become a criminal, you'll

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Speaker 1: end up in jail, you'll take drugs, all those kinds

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Speaker 1: of things, worst case scenario because of a lack of regulation.

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Speaker 4: And if you're struggling to regulate your emotion, watch those

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Speaker 4: videos because that will make you laugh because they're amazing.

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Speaker 3: They're so much fun.

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Speaker 1: And you see these kids doing their best to not

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Speaker 1: eat the marshmallow and they're just having the tiniest nibble,

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Speaker 1: or they're turning the back on and saying I'm not going,

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Speaker 1: you know, all that sort.

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Speaker 4: Of stuff, or they're poking them on the desk and

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Speaker 4: then poking the marshmallow.

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Speaker 2: We move up into the teenage years. They're now breaking,

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Speaker 2: it's still developing. We have the added addition of knowledge

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Speaker 2: that's coming in and maybe to an extent, and understanding

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Speaker 2: that we know more than we actually do at that point.

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Speaker 2: I knew everything when I was a teenager. I know

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Speaker 2: wayless now. And there's these strong mood swings, hormones raging,

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Speaker 2: and then there's the pressures of society, and we are

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Speaker 2: seeing a large number of anxiety, depression, and stress showing

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Speaker 2: up in our teenagers. So what do we do as

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Speaker 2: parents to try and help and support and create as

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Speaker 2: much stability through that time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So this is.

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Speaker 1: Where it gets really interesting, because by around about the

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Speaker 1: age of eight or nine, our kids should be able

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Speaker 1: to have a reasonable grasp on their emotional regulation.

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Speaker 3: Or having said that, I know plenty of adults that

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Speaker 3: still struggle with this right.

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Speaker 1: So, but in their teen years we talk all about

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Speaker 1: how their brain isn't fully developed.

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Speaker 3: It actually is over developed.

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Speaker 1: The prefrontal cortex, which is in charge of planning, has

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Speaker 1: too many neurons and as a result, it has to

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Speaker 1: go through what we call a synaptic pruning process to

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Speaker 1: get rid of brain cells so that it can become

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Speaker 1: more efficient. Because the prefrontal cortex is not efficient. That

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Speaker 1: emotional brain it's revved up, red hot, and ready to go,

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Speaker 1: and that's clashing with this other adolescent developmental necessity, and

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Speaker 1: that is that they're supposed to start to separate from

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Speaker 1: us as their parents and be who they are now.

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Speaker 1: Something like a coronavirus pandemic where people are in isolation,

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Speaker 1: or they're being locked down, or families are being forced

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Speaker 1: back together, is terribly hard for kids once they're in

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Speaker 1: adolescents because they're now under our umbrella again, but they

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Speaker 1: don't want to be, and so this just inflames it.

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Speaker 3: It makes it even harder.

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Speaker 1: The great challenge for us, therefore, is to be able

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Speaker 1: to work with their emotional mood swings and help them

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Speaker 1: to stay regulated so I can give you a bunch

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Speaker 1: of tips about how we can do that.

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Speaker 3: That might be helpful, That would be fantastic.

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Speaker 1: I just think that that context is really important, though,

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Speaker 1: that developmental context, because when we understand that all of

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Speaker 1: this is happening to our children and they can't do

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Speaker 1: anything about it. I mean, that's what Luke's initial question was.

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Speaker 1: Is this physiological? Is it psychological?

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Speaker 3: Is it social? What's going on? Well the answer is yes,

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Speaker 3: it's all of that.

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Speaker 1: So as a parent, if I've got a child who's

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Speaker 1: having a really big mood swing, rule number one is

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Speaker 1: that I've got to keep it together myself.

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Speaker 4: Oh, let's just back on us.

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Speaker 3: So how do we do that bit?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, emotions are contagious, so there's speculation. Researchers

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Speaker 1: aren't quite sure, but some people think that there's these

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Speaker 1: neurons in our brain that we call them mirror neurons

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Speaker 1: because they pick up on what's happening socially around us,

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Speaker 1: and we calibrate ourselves to the emotional mood of another person.

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Speaker 3: So if somebody comes raw into the living room saying

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Speaker 3: I hate you all, that's not fair. What are you

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Speaker 3: doing to me?

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Speaker 1: We automatically our mirror neurons go red alert and we

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Speaker 1: come back and say, what do you mean, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: And we actually match their energy. We might not match

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Speaker 1: their exact emotion, but it's fair to say that the

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Speaker 1: emotional energy of another person is very, very easily caught.

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Speaker 3: So what do we do, Susie when this happens. We

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Speaker 3: do this thing that I talk about all the time.

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Speaker 1: We get curious, not furious, We understand, not reprimand we explore,

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Speaker 1: we don't explode. And the best way to do that

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Speaker 1: is to reflect to our child what we're seeing. You

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Speaker 1: seem really upset, you seem to be really struggling, you

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Speaker 1: seem to be really challenged, you seem to be really down,

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Speaker 1: you seem to be really frustrated.

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Speaker 3: It's that simple.

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Speaker 1: You say you seem to be and then insert the

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Speaker 1: emotion that is your very best guess if you're wrong,

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Speaker 1: they'll say no, I am not, and you'll say, oh, I'm.

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Speaker 3: So sorry, I misread that. What is it that you're feeling?

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Speaker 3: So that's kind of what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: That's step one, keep it together, Step two, give their

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Speaker 1: emotion a name, and step three. I mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot more that we could talk about, but I think

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Speaker 1: step three to sort of move towards a conclusion here

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Speaker 1: is that as we reflect their emotion, we simply say, well,

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Speaker 1: that must be really tough.

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Speaker 3: How can I help?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 3: It won't always work that way, but.

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Speaker 1: If we can be moving towards that point that we

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Speaker 1: just want to listen and then offer to help and

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Speaker 1: take our time get into their helping bit, make sure

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Speaker 1: that they feel safe, comfortable, and heard before we get

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Speaker 1: to the how can I help a bit. That's where

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Speaker 1: we overcome things like the mood swings, and that's where

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Speaker 1: we can kind of get into this conversation where a

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Speaker 1: child might be feeling depressed and you seem to be

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Speaker 1: really flat lately, you seem to be really struggling.

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Speaker 3: What can I do to help? I might say nothing,

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Speaker 3: You say, all right, well I'm here if.

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Speaker 1: You need somebody to listen, and maybe that's enough just

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Speaker 1: to get things going.

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Speaker 4: There's a conversation Susie and I had recently, not around teenagers,

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Speaker 4: but around dealing with people, and my point was that

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Speaker 4: often everyone wants to correct bad behavior by making sure

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Speaker 4: they know that their behavior is bad right. Sometimes like

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Speaker 4: the desire is to be safe and heard. Right, what

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Speaker 4: you were saying before and that rather than having to

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Speaker 4: point out everything they've made a mistake on, to actually go, well,

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Speaker 4: how do I defuse this by going, let me acknowledge

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Speaker 4: where you're at and let me say that it's okay

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Speaker 4: because we're going to move in a different direction. We

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Speaker 4: don't have to escalate it, we don't have to mirror it.

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Speaker 1: Being in a rush to fix things seems to create

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Speaker 1: some really big challenges. Every now and again, you see

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Speaker 1: in the media. People often police end up in the

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Speaker 1: media because there's this rush to respond and stamp out

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Speaker 1: a problem. Now, I'm not making a commentary on the police,

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Speaker 1: because I can't imagine how stressful that job must be,

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Speaker 1: but I do know that if a child in my

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Speaker 1: home responded to me the way some people in public

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Speaker 1: respond to the police, my response to my child in

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Speaker 1: my home would have to be different. My response to

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Speaker 1: my child would have to be you seem to be

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Speaker 1: really upset, you seem to be really struggling, and I

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Speaker 1: want to understand what's going on for you that we

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Speaker 1: can move towards a positive conclusion of a positive outcome

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 3: That seems to be a.

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Speaker 1: Better way forward. And if you've got a child who's

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Speaker 1: having these big mood swings. We call this emotion coaching.

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Speaker 1: That's what John Gotman, the great marriage and family researcher,

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Speaker 1: has called it. And there's all sorts of different ways

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Speaker 1: that we can do it. A's a handful of different models,

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Speaker 1: but essentially they all converge around this same thing. When

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Speaker 1: somebody's having an emotion, you don't try to stop the emotion.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like a train going through a tunnel,

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Speaker 1: and rather than waiting for the train to come out

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Speaker 1: the other end of the tunnel, you're going to dig

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Speaker 1: through the middle of the tunnel and rip the train

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Speaker 1: out through the top. If we just let the train

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Speaker 1: ride its way through the tunnel, it will come back

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Speaker 1: out into the daylight and the sun will shine again

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Speaker 1: and everything will be okay, beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I love that picture. Doctor Justin Coilson, you're bringing the

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Speaker 2: wisdom from Happy families dot Com today. You thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for your time.

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Speaker 3: Thanks guys.

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Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed the Happy Families podcast or found it helpful,

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Speaker 1: I'd be so grateful if you would do what more

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Speaker 1: and more people are doing. So appreciative that people are

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Speaker 1: doing this. Can you go to Apple podcasts and leave

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Speaker 1: a rating and a review. When you do that, it

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Speaker 1: helps other people find the podcast have happier families. There's

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Speaker 1: been a bunch come through just recently that I'm most

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Speaker 1: grateful for. KK double o one said, great stuff, I'm

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Speaker 1: giving you a five star review. They said, I've attended

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Speaker 1: your seminar in person previously thoroughly enjoyed it. Now that

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Speaker 1: I can hear your wisdoms via the podcast, it's very valuable.

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Speaker 3: Thank you and keep it up.

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Speaker 1: And von Beer one two three four also gave me

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Speaker 1: a five star review and said these.

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Speaker 3: Podcasts are just what I need.

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Speaker 1: Easy to understand, simple steps and well said, even when

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Speaker 1: you need to look at yourself and readjust how you

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Speaker 1: might be parenting. Thanks for your encouragement and words of wisdom. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you von Bear one two three four and KK

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Speaker 1: double o one for your five star reviews. They mean

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Speaker 1: a lot, and like I said, it helps other people

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Speaker 1: to find the podcast. Thank you for doing that. If

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Speaker 1: you'd like more information on how I can help your

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Speaker 1: family to flourish, particularly if you would like to have

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Speaker 1: me a parenting expert literally guiding you on a day

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Speaker 1: to day, week to week kind of basis for as

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Speaker 1: little as two two dollars fifty per week. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's cheap as it's cheaper than a coffee, it's cheap

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Speaker 1: as chips.

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Speaker 3: It's probably cheaper than chips.

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Speaker 1: You can get more information about that monthly support via

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Speaker 1: the amazing Happy Families memberships. Happy families dot com dot

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Speaker 1: au is where you find all the info and we

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Speaker 1: appreciate so much that that happy family's family keeps on

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Speaker 1: getting bigger. So thank you for being a part of it.

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Speaker 1: If you already are, and if you're not, please check

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Speaker 1: it out. I'm sure you'll get loads of great info

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Speaker 1: and if you'd like more information about what we do,

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Speaker 1: visit my Facebook page dot Justin Colson's Happy Families