Speaker 1: Did you know that if you make a mistake and
Speaker 1: beat yourself up about it, you're actually just making yourself
Speaker 1: even less productive. It turns out that if we applied
Speaker 1: self compassion in those moments, not only would we be
Speaker 1: kinder to ourselves, but we'd also handle our workload a
Speaker 1: whole work better. Professor Kristin Neff is a pioneer in
Speaker 1: the study of self compassion and was the first person
Speaker 1: to actually operationally define and measure it more than twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. Her work on self compassion has led her
Speaker 1: to become one of the most recognized and influential scholars
Speaker 1: in the field of psychology. Since then, she has gone
Speaker 1: on to write several best selling books about self compassion
Speaker 1: and is an associate professor at the University of Texas
Speaker 1: at Austin. In this episode, we discuss what self compassion
Speaker 1: actually is, how you can use it to better handle
Speaker 1: mistakes and failure, and how you can more easily say
Speaker 1: no to things that will leave you exhausted and tired
Speaker 1: about feeling guilty. Welcome to How I Work, a show
Speaker 1: about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your dat I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Doctor Amantha imber To, start things off, I
Speaker 1: wanted Kristen to help clear up a little bit of terminology.
Speaker 1: The terms self care and self compassion get thrown around
Speaker 1: a lot, but what's the actual difference between the two
Speaker 1: and which one is really going to help us out
Speaker 1: in the long term. I would love to start by
Speaker 1: talking and understanding the difference between self care and self compassion,
Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of people get confused
Speaker 1: with those terms.
Speaker 2: Typically, when people are talking about self care, they're talking
Speaker 2: about behaviors you engage in to help yourself, like maybe
Speaker 2: you know, taking naps or eating well, or visiting with
Speaker 2: friends or having some me time, those types of things.
Speaker 2: So compassion is, first of all, it's in the context
Speaker 2: of suffering in particular, and normally we think of that as,
Speaker 2: you know, how do we show up for other people
Speaker 2: when they're struggling. In the case of self compassion, it's
Speaker 2: how do we show up for ourselves when we're struggling,
Speaker 2: And so practicing self care might be one way we
Speaker 2: help that. Maybe we're stressed and over worked and we
Speaker 2: need to, you know, have some me time or take
Speaker 2: a bubble bath, whatever. This there's nothing wrong with that,
Speaker 2: but sentiences you may not have time to practice self care.
Speaker 2: You know, if you're in the middle of a busy
Speaker 2: meeting and you know your boss has said something you
Speaker 2: can't like, say I'm sorry, I'm going to go take
Speaker 2: a bubble bath now, you know. So compassion is how
Speaker 2: do you show up for yourself and those tough moments
Speaker 2: in life. And so it refers a little bit more
Speaker 2: to emotional self care being aware that we're struggling. So
Speaker 2: the three elements mindfulness, being aware that we're struggling, kindness,
Speaker 2: warm support, encouragement like having your own back like you
Speaker 2: would do a good friend. And then a really important
Speaker 2: makes it self. Compassion and not self pity is a
Speaker 2: sense of our humanity, Like you know, it's not really
Speaker 2: even though the word self is there, it's just remembering, Hey,
Speaker 2: we are a human being doing the best we can.
Speaker 2: We aren't alone. You know, all people struggle. There's something
Speaker 2: wrong with us for struggling. This is the shared human condition.
Speaker 1: I would love to know you around about some of
Speaker 1: the rituals that you have around self compassion. I love
Speaker 1: understanding people's morning rituals and evening rituals, ither things that
Speaker 1: you do on a daily basis to help foster self compassion.
Speaker 2: Well, there are The most common thing I do is
Speaker 2: whenever I notice any pain or discomfort coming out best
Speaker 2: primarily when I practice self compassion. So again and when
Speaker 2: suffering arises the passion, I am calm, I'm with it
Speaker 2: in a kind supportive way. So yesterday I was at
Speaker 2: a place I was doing this dance group I go
Speaker 2: to sometimes, and I have some painful memories come up.
Speaker 2: So I actually left to the side and actually sat
Speaker 2: there and put my hand on my heart. I was is, okay,
Speaker 2: the painful memories are coming up, and this was there
Speaker 2: for myself. Just I was with myself until I felt
Speaker 2: like I tended to what I needed that I went
Speaker 2: back into the dance. So that happens a lot, right,
Speaker 2: So anytime any painful thought or emotion or memory or
Speaker 2: stressor comes up, I'll practice self compassion in the moment.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me a bit of more about what's
Speaker 1: going on for you in the moment, like what you're
Speaker 1: doing with your body and what the thoughts are that
Speaker 1: are going on in your mind to help you through
Speaker 1: that moment.
Speaker 2: So the reason I almost ows use self touch as
Speaker 2: an aspect of self compassion, as we know scientifically that
Speaker 2: it's one of the most reliable ways to give our
Speaker 2: self compassion because it works through our nervous system. So
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to get a little technical here, but
Speaker 2: normally when we're suffering or something painful happens, we feel threatened. Right,
Speaker 2: it's just something's wrong, right, this is a problem, So
Speaker 2: we go into fight flight or freeze. We activate the
Speaker 2: sympathetic nervous system. We get aroused the problem, which is
Speaker 2: often ourselves, so we criticize ourselves, or we flee into
Speaker 2: a sense of shame or isolation, or we freeze and
Speaker 2: we get stuck. And that's normal. It's natural. It's actually
Speaker 2: the most natural response when we notice some problem. We
Speaker 2: go into fight flight or freeze. Now, when our friends
Speaker 2: are good friends and loved ones, when they have a problem,
Speaker 2: we don't feel so personally threatened typically, and so that
Speaker 2: way we can use another system, which is the care system.
Speaker 2: So the care system is linked to the parasympathetic nervous system.
Speaker 2: Tendem to befriend. It's also a natural instinct for others
Speaker 2: to be there for others to be kind and supportive,
Speaker 2: and that helps them feel calmed down, also helps us
Speaker 2: feel calmed down. As well, so what we're doing when
Speaker 2: we touch our bodies, and we have research shows, for instance,
Speaker 2: if someone puts her hand on your shoulder activates para
Speaker 2: sympathetic nervous system response. If you put your own hands
Speaker 2: on your heart, it activates para sympathetic nervous response, reduces
Speaker 2: cortisol linked to fight flight or freeze. If you think
Speaker 2: about it a baby, you know that we're born to
Speaker 2: interpret touches the signal of care. Well before you understand
Speaker 2: what your parents are saying to you, like I'm here
Speaker 2: for you, I love you, sweetheart. You don't understand anything
Speaker 2: as an infant, you do understand the soothing, warm touch,
Speaker 2: and so that's why it kind of is the immediate
Speaker 2: kind of bypasses. The brain almost goes straight to helping
Speaker 2: your body feel safe and cared for, and then it's
Speaker 2: actually easier for the mind to follow. So that's why
Speaker 2: it is such a feely but it's scientific touchy feely
Speaker 2: because it works as there's you know, real reasons why
Speaker 2: it works. So you usually put hands somewhere. And by
Speaker 2: the way, if the stress or is your boss, you
Speaker 2: don't want to go like that, so you can just
Speaker 2: like fold your arms or any sort of touch is
Speaker 2: a really good way to ground yourself physiologically in your
Speaker 2: own care and support.
Speaker 1: And so to describe what you're doing for people and
Speaker 1: not watching the video. Sorry, all right, okay, yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1: First instinct putting your hands or even laughing of your heart, this.
Speaker 2: Is a good one. It doesn't work for everyone. There's
Speaker 2: different types of touch that feel soothing and supportive for
Speaker 2: different people. So putting both hands over your heart center.
Speaker 2: You can also cradle your own face the way you
Speaker 2: might cradle the face of a child. You can give
Speaker 2: yourself a hug, or you can just kind of fold
Speaker 2: your arms in a way that isn't so obvious, but
Speaker 2: if you do it with the intention like I'm here
Speaker 2: for myself, you know, I'm present, I care about myself.
Speaker 2: That that type of feeling tone with the ad gesture
Speaker 2: folding your arms, it actually does. Research shows that changes
Speaker 2: your physiology. So that's one thing that's kind of step one.
Speaker 2: And then I usually add some language. I often add
Speaker 2: language kind of just acknowledging the different parts of me
Speaker 2: that may be hurting. And I say parts of me,
Speaker 2: because sometimes there's a part of me that hurts, some
Speaker 2: part of me that does a part of me that's afraid,
Speaker 2: another part of me that's angry. So we're kind of
Speaker 2: we're complex. So I usually direct it to parts of
Speaker 2: myself and kind of really acknowledge again that I'm hurting
Speaker 2: in some way. I ask myself, what do I need?
Speaker 2: I usually talk to myself, not out loud, usually silently,
Speaker 2: like you know, I'm here for you, or I will
Speaker 2: protect you, I will stand up for you. It sounds
Speaker 2: funny at first, it really does. You get used to it.
Speaker 2: You talk to yourself just like you would a really
Speaker 2: good friend or loved one or a close colleague in
Speaker 2: terms of showing your warmth, support and care and really
Speaker 2: commitment having your own back. It's so huge. Think about it.
Speaker 2: Most of us we do not have our own back.
Speaker 2: We cut ourselves down, We shame ourselves like we kick
Speaker 2: ourselves when we're already down. We make things worse, and
Speaker 2: the research shows it does make things worth both mentally
Speaker 2: and physically. So making that commitment to being there for
Speaker 2: yourself in a supportive way, just as like a good
Speaker 2: friend or a really good parent would, or a good
Speaker 2: mentor good coach, makes all the difference in our feelings
Speaker 2: of strength and resilience and ability to cope with the
Speaker 2: tough stuff. So I might say that so like, for instance,
Speaker 2: I had these bad memories actually because it was something
Speaker 2: that happened that I wasn't happy with what happened, and
Speaker 2: I said, Kristen, I promise I will try not to
Speaker 2: ever let that happen again. I can't say that for sure,
Speaker 2: but it's like that commitment meant to you know, I'm
Speaker 2: going to really try not to put myself in that
Speaker 2: vulnerable position again where I was mistreated and you know,
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry this happened and I'm here for you,
Speaker 2: and that kind of speaking to myself it just really helped.
Speaker 1: Can I ask, is there a person or someone that
Speaker 1: you channel in terms of that language, because it sounds
Speaker 1: like such kind language and the language that a lot
Speaker 1: of us probably wouldn't use when you know, to ourselves
Speaker 1: when we're going through a tough time. So I guess
Speaker 1: earlier in the days when you started, you know, first
Speaker 1: started researching self compassion, who were you thinking about to
Speaker 1: access that voice?
Speaker 2: I was thinking about myself. Everyone already knows how to
Speaker 2: be compassionate to other people. So what I did do
Speaker 2: at first, and this can be very helpful. Is I
Speaker 2: thought like, oh, what would I say to my son
Speaker 2: in this situation? Or you know, it's very easy just
Speaker 2: to think about what would I say to someone else
Speaker 2: I cared about. We already have the compassion and template,
Speaker 2: and by the way, this is also inborn as mammals.
Speaker 2: We have the compassion template. We just have to remember,
Speaker 2: I think even more important than remember it, give ourselves
Speaker 2: permission to use it with ourselves.
Speaker 1: I would love to know from my reading self compassion
Speaker 1: is particularly important when you're facing a setback or when
Speaker 1: there's some kind of a failure. And I think about
Speaker 1: this particularly because this podcast is largely around work and
Speaker 1: we all face failures at work. I would love to
Speaker 1: know in your life whether there have been times where
Speaker 1: you've had failure or setbacks and how you've used self
Speaker 1: compassion or practices around self compassion to help you through that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely what it does. And so it hasn't
Speaker 2: prevented me from making mistakes. To be honest, I still
Speaker 2: make mistakes, but it does mean that when I do
Speaker 2: make mistakes, first of all, I don't shame myself for them,
Speaker 2: that I don't add to it by saying, yes, you're horrible. Christen,
Speaker 2: You're a bad person. I hate you. I just might know.
Speaker 2: Ooh that felt feelings of shame arise. Well, it happens
Speaker 2: to everyone, you know, everyone makes mistakes and it is
Speaker 2: how we learn. You know, what can I learn from this?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: How can I grow from this? And when you do that?
Speaker 2: It's really interesting. So this research showing that people respect
Speaker 2: self compassionate leaders more. It's also for people in the workplace.
Speaker 2: The ability to give yourself compassion means, for instance, this
Speaker 2: is a really good one. It increases work performance. Of
Speaker 2: course it does. When you make a mistake and you
Speaker 2: kick yourself and you shame yourself, and you know, it's
Speaker 2: not really going to help you get a pup back
Speaker 2: on your feet again. It's just going to make you
Speaker 2: distracted and nervous and even more stressed. You look at me, right,
Speaker 2: So I've achieved some success and I have had setback.
Speaker 2: So of course I have had setbacks, you know, and
Speaker 2: worked and people criticizing this, you know it's academy or
Speaker 2: very political, people criticizing the scale I wrote and said
Speaker 2: I was crap and like almost literally things like that.
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't fold. When people criticize my scale
Speaker 2: actually teamed up with a kick ass psychometrician who said, no, actually,
Speaker 2: once you do it the right way, it shows that
Speaker 2: the scale is very good. You know, So I could
Speaker 2: I thought back, so to speak, but not from a
Speaker 2: place of defensiveness, but from a place that no, I think,
Speaker 2: I think the scale is good. I think it works,
Speaker 2: and how can I learn? And so I actually asked
Speaker 2: around my statistician friends, and I found someone who had
Speaker 2: the way to model the structure of the scale in
Speaker 2: a way that was actually superior. You know that that's
Speaker 2: the way it works.
Speaker 1: I would love to know when you're like aware of
Speaker 1: yourself talk around self compassion. I They have phrases or
Speaker 1: mantras or things that are quite helpful to come back
Speaker 1: to you.
Speaker 2: One of the things we teach, you know, I teach
Speaker 2: my books and my workshops and lectures is called a
Speaker 2: self compassion break. And it's a nice term because you know,
Speaker 2: when you're at work, you take a coffee break, or
Speaker 2: you take a bathroom break. Whenever you're struggling or stressed,
Speaker 2: you can take a self compassion break. It doesn't take long,
Speaker 2: could take maybe two or three minutes, and all you
Speaker 2: do is you intentionally bring in the three components of self, compassion, mindfulness.
Speaker 2: Just likecknows, this is hard. I'm hurting this, I'm scared
Speaker 2: or I'm stressed or whatever it is you're feeling, I'm hurt.
Speaker 2: Bringing in common humanity, this is part of life. I'm
Speaker 2: not alone. You know, it's only human to feel this way.
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with me for feeling this way. When
Speaker 2: we forget this and we think there's something wrong with
Speaker 2: us and we feel isolated and alone, it makes it
Speaker 2: ten times worse. And it's also not true, you know,
Speaker 2: it's the fallacy of the mind. So you bring in
Speaker 2: that common humanity, and then you bring in some words
Speaker 2: of kindness. I'm especially powerful of combined with the touch.
Speaker 2: So maybe put your hands in your heart or full
Speaker 2: d arms or whatever it's appropriate, and then just say
Speaker 2: some encouraging words. So for me, you know, people are different.
Speaker 2: I think based on my history, a really good phrase
Speaker 2: for me is I will not abandon you. It's kind
Speaker 2: of like that part of myself, that caring, loving part
Speaker 2: of myself that often that many people they abandon that
Speaker 2: part of themselves. It's like, no, I'm just I don't
Speaker 2: deserve kindness or I don't deserve support or you know,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to shame myself, like we're abandon it
Speaker 2: in ourselves in that moment. Not only do we abandon ourselves,
Speaker 2: we kick ourselves when we're down. So you know I
Speaker 2: will not abandon you. I'm here for you. How can
Speaker 2: I help? What do you need? Care about you? All
Speaker 2: those things that you just might naturally say to you
Speaker 2: a friend or a close coworker or something like that,
Speaker 2: it's really helpful.
Speaker 1: I love the idea of a self compassion break, and
Speaker 1: it's just so practical. I think, when you're at work
Speaker 1: and you're having just one of those days, at one
Speaker 1: of those moments, would you be able to talk us
Speaker 1: through a self compassion break? Almost narrated, I can be
Speaker 1: one and happy to I would love you to lead
Speaker 1: one for us. And when I'm going to.
Speaker 2: Ask you, Amantha, I get to ask you to do
Speaker 2: it in real time, and then I'm going to ask
Speaker 2: you about how it went for you. Okay, you don't
Speaker 2: have to share what you're having ade me toward, but
Speaker 2: just the process excellent, all right. So we might want
Speaker 2: to close your eyes. You don't have to close your
Speaker 2: eyes in real life, but it helps, especially in this
Speaker 2: context to go inward. Okay, And so I'd invite you
Speaker 2: to think about something in your life that's troubling you
Speaker 2: or causing you stress. Perhaps it is something that works
Speaker 2: some stress or you're experiencing, or maybe you've made some
Speaker 2: mistake or feel like a failure at something. It also
Speaker 2: might be in your personal life, a relationship issue, or
Speaker 2: even be a health issue. I would invite people listening
Speaker 2: to this not to think of anything that's too stressful
Speaker 2: or overwhelming, because if you're overwhelmed, you are even going
Speaker 2: to be able to learn the practice. So choose something
Speaker 2: that's mild to moderately distressing. Call the situation to mind,
Speaker 2: what's happening, what's going on. See if you can feel
Speaker 2: the discomfort of what's happening in your body. Notice usually
Speaker 2: those feelings of contraction or unease. Well, bring in mindfulness,
Speaker 2: just to become aware of and be present with the
Speaker 2: fact that it's hard to be feeling this or it's
Speaker 2: hard to be in this situation. I'm hurting. We don't
Speaker 2: want to ignore it. The other hand, we don't want
Speaker 2: to lose ourselves with it. We just want to see it,
Speaker 2: be with it as it is. This is hard and
Speaker 2: also to remember that things like this they're part of
Speaker 2: being human. There are probably literally millions of people experiencing
Speaker 2: something similar, you know, some some worse, maybe not as bad,
Speaker 2: but that the point is mainly that you are a
Speaker 2: human being. This is part of the shared human experience.
Speaker 2: You are not alone. There's nothing wrong with you or
Speaker 2: whatever it is you're worried about or thinking about. And
Speaker 2: this is part for the course, it's part of being
Speaker 2: a human being. We make mistakes, we struggle, stuff happens.
Speaker 2: We aren't perfect. No one's perfect. No one's life is perfect.
Speaker 2: Know it about you too. Go ahead and put maybe
Speaker 2: both hands on your heart, or fold your arms, or
Speaker 2: maybe cradle your face, use some sort of physical gesture.
Speaker 2: It really brings some physical warmth and support to yourself.
Speaker 2: Express our kindness through touch and also any words of support,
Speaker 2: kindness and encouragement that are exactly what you need to
Speaker 2: hear right now, whatever your situation is. You know, perhaps
Speaker 2: it's something like you're doing the best you can or
Speaker 2: you've got this, I'm here for you, I won't abandon you.
Speaker 2: What do you need? And in fact, you might imagine
Speaker 2: what you would say to a friend who was in
Speaker 2: the exact same situation you were, Maybe easier to think
Speaker 2: of the appropriate thing to say if you think of
Speaker 2: what if you had a good friend it was in
Speaker 2: the exact same situation you were. Would you say to
Speaker 2: be supportive and kind and helpful, encouraging, maybe just validating,
Speaker 2: and then see if you can say something similar to
Speaker 2: yourself okay, and then you can open your eyes. So
Speaker 2: I did a slightly longer one to show the steps,
Speaker 2: but you can do it really quick. So what was
Speaker 2: that like for you? Amantha?
Speaker 1: Ah? I feel very calm and relaxed now, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: And I think some of the phrase is that you
Speaker 1: said they just they hit me, and it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so true. You know, I'm not alone. And then
Speaker 1: there are yeah, a couple of other ones that I
Speaker 1: can't remember now, but it was, yeah, like the words
Speaker 1: really resonated, and it was interesting when I moved to
Speaker 1: put my hands on my heart that it just had
Speaker 1: such ad to really calming and warming effect as opposed
Speaker 1: to when I started the exercise in my hands were
Speaker 1: just by my side on the chair, So even that physicality,
Speaker 1: it made the experience feel very different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could put on your hands first, if you
Speaker 2: wann't as well. I kind of do it to emphasize
Speaker 2: the warmth of the physical touch, but you can do
Speaker 2: it at any point because it's largely working through your physiology,
Speaker 2: your activating and your comparisympathetic over system, the tandem affriend system,
Speaker 2: and that's probably why you feel calmer.
Speaker 1: Thank you for taking us through that, and I think
Speaker 1: for listeners, make a note of wherever that it was
Speaker 1: in the episode so you can come back to it.
Speaker 1: I know I will definitely be coming back to it.
Speaker 1: We will be back with Kristen soon. When we return,
Speaker 1: we'll be revealing strategies you can use to say no
Speaker 1: to offers and interactions that might leave you feeling drained
Speaker 1: or exhausted. We'll also get answers on how you can
Speaker 1: use self compassion when you're out and about and not
Speaker 1: just when you're quietly sitting at home without distractions. If
Speaker 1: you're looking for more tips to improve the way you
Speaker 1: work can live. I write a short weekly newsletter that
Speaker 1: contains tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. You
Speaker 1: can sign up for that at Amantha dot com. That's
Speaker 1: Amantha dot com. I'm wondering like about self compassion exercises
Speaker 1: or practices that we can do when we're out and
Speaker 1: about and moving, like, what does that look like? Because
Speaker 1: that was one that I guess was you know, involved
Speaker 1: stillness simply you know the way we did it then,
Speaker 1: but what does it look like at the other end, right, right.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of different practices you could do
Speaker 2: so when you're interacting with others. So, for instance, we
Speaker 2: trained a bunch of doctors and nurses at the local
Speaker 2: children's hospital here and they didn't have time to take
Speaker 2: a self compassion break. There were on the ward they
Speaker 2: were seeing sick kids of their parents. So we actually
Speaker 2: taught them a practice where you'd say breathing and they
Speaker 2: imagine as they are breathing out that they are breathing
Speaker 2: out compassion for the parents and the kids they were seeing.
Speaker 2: But then when they breathe in, they were breathing in
Speaker 2: compassion for themselves. So they actually did that practice on
Speaker 2: the wards they're going from room to room. You know,
Speaker 2: you have to breathe in and out or shall die,
Speaker 2: so you could you know, you also have to give
Speaker 2: yourself compassion as well as others, or else you will
Speaker 2: get drained and depleted. And burned out. So that's something
Speaker 2: you can do. You can focus on the breath anytime,
Speaker 2: you can just say something kind of kind of supportive
Speaker 2: to yourself, like you got this, or you're doing the
Speaker 2: best you can, or you know, just just so you
Speaker 2: know it's okay, I'm here for you. Any little thing
Speaker 2: like that. You can kind of whisper in your own
Speaker 2: ears as you're walking. There's also some things you can
Speaker 2: do that are slightly different, but this is actually more
Speaker 2: of a self care practice. But again, self care is
Speaker 2: an act of self compassion, and that when we practice
Speaker 2: self care, it helps leviat our suffering. So just noticing
Speaker 2: beauty when you actually when you're when you're out walking,
Speaker 2: just instead of just focusing on problem solving or not
Speaker 2: even ignoring your surroundings. This is really great to do
Speaker 2: if you're outdoors, maybe walking to your car or walking outside,
Speaker 2: but even inside, just taking a few moments to kind
Speaker 2: of nourish yourself by noticing whatever's beautiful or pleasant, a
Speaker 2: practice called savoring. Again, there's a lot of research that
Speaker 2: shows that savoring also gratitude, be grateful what's good as
Speaker 2: well as you know, noticing what's broken. That's the way
Speaker 2: of replenishing and nourishing ourself as well, and that can
Speaker 2: be done on the go when you're active in your life.
Speaker 1: Which practices do you find yourself coming back to again
Speaker 1: and again? Because I'm curious, is it personal preference in
Speaker 1: terms of which of the many self compassion strategies that
Speaker 1: you talk about in research that we use, or some
Speaker 1: more powerful than others?
Speaker 2: I know it's really the most powerful ones are the
Speaker 2: ones that work for you personally. There's really no right
Speaker 2: or wrong way to do it. So if you go
Speaker 2: to my website, I have a ton of different practices,
Speaker 2: or in the Mindful Self Compassion Workbook which I wrote
Speaker 2: with college Chris Germro, you've got like thirty eight different practices.
Speaker 2: So really the best practice is the one that feels
Speaker 2: right for you in the moment, and also the one
Speaker 2: that you enjoy doing. If it feels like work or
Speaker 2: really makes very stressful, you know you're going to do it,
Speaker 2: that's not good.
Speaker 1: And how about for you? What are the ones the
Speaker 1: practices that you find yourself coming back to again and again.
Speaker 2: It's interesting another kind of angle I've been working on.
Speaker 2: I actually wrote a book a couple of years ago
Speaker 2: based out of my own personal experience. Often at work
Speaker 2: it's called fear self compassion. So fear self compassion I
Speaker 2: like to call it mama bear self compassion. It's a
Speaker 2: fierce protective energy. Sometimes it comes out as anger or
Speaker 2: just like real bravery or courage. And so because I
Speaker 2: had some work situations going on and I was being
Speaker 2: treated well, I felt at least unfairly at work, I
Speaker 2: was having these fierce reactions, and I realized that by
Speaker 2: harnessing that fierceness and channeling it. So when it's aimed
Speaker 2: at people, make anger or fierceness is actually not helpful.
Speaker 2: And also it doesn't go along with my values. But
Speaker 2: when you can aim at not at people, but it
Speaker 2: just like at events, kind of clarity, this is not okay,
Speaker 2: this unfair treatment is not okay, or this isn'tjus and
Speaker 2: there was some gender stuff going on, then it can
Speaker 2: be very helpful. So the fear self compassion practice might
Speaker 2: be something like realizing that I need to standing up
Speaker 2: for myself, speaking up and again, as long as it
Speaker 2: does to humanize anyone or it's not personal, but speaking
Speaker 2: your truth, protecting yourself. Drawing boundaries say no right. So,
Speaker 2: for instance, a lot of people ask me to do
Speaker 2: stuff and I often have to say no. And so
Speaker 2: that's kind of a fierce self compassion practice that I
Speaker 2: use a lot, especially in my work life. And then
Speaker 2: if I forget and I do make it personal, I
Speaker 2: use tender self compassion to forgive myself and I ask
Speaker 2: for forgiveness.
Speaker 1: It happens.
Speaker 2: Sometimes.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you saying NAR is an active self compassion.
Speaker 1: I love that absolutely. What strategies do you use to
Speaker 1: say NAR?
Speaker 2: You know again, I try to usually express the gratitude
Speaker 2: for someone being interested enough to ask me to do something.
Speaker 2: I might even say something like, you know I need
Speaker 2: to take care of myself. I say no. I wish
Speaker 2: I could help you, but you know I can't. And
Speaker 2: so I feel like when I do that, I don't
Speaker 2: know other people take it, but I'm kind of modeling
Speaker 2: that you have permission to do the same. Everyone has
Speaker 2: permission to take care of themselves by saying no, and
Speaker 2: in fact, it is a kindness.
Speaker 1: I had a question around making progress around self compassion
Speaker 1: because I feel like I need work in this area,
Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons why I reached out
Speaker 1: to you to have you on the show and One
Speaker 1: of the things I did in preparation for the interview
Speaker 1: is I did the self compassion quiz that's on your website,
Speaker 1: which I will link to in the show notes. And
Speaker 1: I am a little bit below average, I mean the
Speaker 1: average range, though, But is this something that with practicing
Speaker 1: the practices that we've talked about, will I see progress?
Speaker 1: Will I see improvement in how self compassionate I am?
Speaker 1: If I did that test, say in a month's time.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. We have a lot of longitudein or researchery
Speaker 2: track people using the scale over time, and people do improve.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a great thing. It is a
Speaker 2: learnable skill. I mean, some people, based on how they
Speaker 2: were raised tend to have a little more self compare
Speaker 2: than others. Or it can also be based on genetics
Speaker 2: or on culture. There's a lot of reasons why we
Speaker 2: lack self compassion is natural, but anyone, even people who
Speaker 2: come from really abusive homes, especially like with therapy. One
Speaker 2: of the things therapy does. We know it does matter
Speaker 2: what style of therapy. Good therapy teaches self compassion. That's
Speaker 2: part of what it is. Anyone can learn the skill,
Speaker 2: and again sometimes it does help to have a therapist
Speaker 2: or someone to kind of hold your hands, so to speak.
Speaker 2: And also I should just mention briefly, sometimes as we're
Speaker 2: talking about people maybe with early family trauma, sometimes we
Speaker 2: open our hearts to ourselves. We open our hearts and
Speaker 2: like all the pain we've been holding inside of us
Speaker 2: comes rushing out, and so we want it. Sometimes we
Speaker 2: need to practice self compassion slowly. We need to ty
Speaker 2: trate the amount of pain we touch, because if you
Speaker 2: think about self compassion, what it's referring to is the
Speaker 2: ability to be with pain in a supportive way. But
Speaker 2: if we have a lot of pain, or the pain
Speaker 2: comes too quickly, and that's actually not compassionate. So sometimes
Speaker 2: we just need to go slowly and you know, learn
Speaker 2: the skill, maybe get a little help someone to help
Speaker 2: us hold it could be really a kind thing to
Speaker 2: do for ourself as well.
Speaker 1: Oh, Kristin, it has been so great to connect. And
Speaker 1: thank you for saying yes and not no to my
Speaker 1: request for your time. I am very very grateful and
Speaker 1: I've loved this time that we've been able to spend together.
Speaker 2: It's been my pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I hope you love this chat with Kristin as much
Speaker 1: as I did. I thought her example of a self
Speaker 1: compassion break was really interesting, and I know I'll be
Speaker 1: listening back to that section at some point to help
Speaker 1: me take my own self compassion breaks. You can find
Speaker 1: links to Kristen's website in the show notes, as well
Speaker 1: as links to her self Compassion Quiz and her self
Speaker 1: Compassion Community. If you like today's show, make sure you
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Speaker 1: new episodes drop. How I Work was recorded on the
Speaker 1: traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the Colon
Speaker 1: Nation