1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,760
Speaker 1: This is jam Nation with Jonesy and Amanda Well.

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,320
Speaker 2: Housing is one of the biggest problems in Australia right now.

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,640
Speaker 2: We don't have enough houses and the ones we do

4
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,479
Speaker 2: have are far too expensive. The government has a proposal

5
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,600
Speaker 2: to allow you to dig into your super to.

6
00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,560
Speaker 3: Buy a house. Housing Minister Michael Suka is on the

7
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,439
Speaker 3: line to break it down for us. Good morning Minister,

8
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:21,640
Speaker 3: Good morning Amanda.

9
00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:22,279
Speaker 1: Great to be with you.

10
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:22,880
Speaker 3: Hello.

11
00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 2: Now, the way this works we actually we spoke about

12
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 2: this on our program yesterday. We have a thing called

13
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 2: the pub test where we put various issues to our callers.

14
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 3: Here's what they felt about. That proposal is.

15
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,159
Speaker 1: Nothing purely going to a vote grab. It's for your

16
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,960
Speaker 1: retirement and that should be That reality.

17
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,159
Speaker 4: Is is that that super scheme is based on the

18
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 4: premise that when you retire, you are in your own home.

19
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 1: Most people won't know our home when they retire, and

20
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 1: I'll still be renting.

21
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,680
Speaker 4: So how long is that super bit expected to laugh?

22
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,880
Speaker 1: It's Bill carliforda in their own home and the way

23
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: the government key is putting their retirement those bag. No

24
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,440
Speaker 1: one's going to live longer us to retire anyway, So

25
00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:58,960
Speaker 1: let him use it now.

26
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,080
Speaker 2: As you can hear, there were some for some against,

27
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,120
Speaker 2: but people are concerned that when they do get to

28
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,839
Speaker 2: retirement age, they won't have enough money to survive.

29
00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 1: Well a mana. The great thing about this policy is

30
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,520
Speaker 1: it does two things. It allows you to use part

31
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,720
Speaker 1: of your Super when you need it, when you need

32
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:18,679
Speaker 1: to get that deposit together to buy a home, and

33
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 1: we know that getting your deposit together is the hardest

34
00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,959
Speaker 1: part of buying a home. But it then requires you

35
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 1: to recontribute it back at the end when you sell

36
00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 1: the house back into your Super plus any proportion of

37
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,840
Speaker 1: the gain, so you're maintaining your Super balance as well,

38
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,319
Speaker 1: so you get into it. You use the money when

39
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 1: you need it to get into a home, but.

40
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,720
Speaker 3: You have to sell it to access it later on. Though.

41
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, on average first home buyers Amanda will own their

42
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,560
Speaker 1: first property for at least eight years and that's the average.

43
00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: And we've seen, you know, as an asset, the Australian

44
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,240
Speaker 1: property market is very stable and very strong, and you know,

45
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,160
Speaker 1: we think it's very important that you've recontribute a portion

46
00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,240
Speaker 1: of that back into Super. But the great thing at

47
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,280
Speaker 1: that point is, Amanda, you own your home and we

48
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 1: know that if you enter retirement owning your home, you

49
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,200
Speaker 1: are in a far better position than if you enter

50
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,360
Speaker 1: retirement renting. So the best of both words in our view,

51
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,720
Speaker 1: use the money when you need it to help you

52
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,800
Speaker 1: fund your deposit, and then protect your retirement savings at

53
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 1: the end, and you own your home.

54
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 4: Michael, what happens though, if you say first home, buy

55
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,520
Speaker 4: your home, you do that, you sell the house because

56
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 4: you want to buy a better home. So do you

57
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,360
Speaker 4: have to pay some money back then to you guys?

58
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, I mean the simplest example I suppose, Jonesy

59
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,400
Speaker 1: is you know, if you buy a home for five

60
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, you've saved fifty thousand, You've used fifty thousand

61
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,440
Speaker 1: of your SUPER to help pay for that. You then

62
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,359
Speaker 1: sell it a couple of years later, and you've made

63
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: a say a ten percent capital gain, We're going to

64
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 1: have to recontribute that fifty five thousand back into SUPER.

65
00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 1: We don't apologize so that we think it's important that

66
00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,160
Speaker 1: you maintain your retirement savings, but you'll still have the

67
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,520
Speaker 1: capital growth that it has accrued on that property in

68
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,760
Speaker 1: that case, more than ninety percent of the capital growth

69
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,680
Speaker 1: to then reinvest into your next home. So again, the

70
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,400
Speaker 1: big problem here, I think for first time buyers is

71
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 1: they struggle each week to put a bit of money

72
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 1: aside after they've paid their rent and all their bills,

73
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 1: to save for that deposit, and yet they get the

74
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,320
Speaker 1: superannuation statement every six or twelve months and they say, boy,

75
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,359
Speaker 1: I could use some of that money. And the thing

76
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,160
Speaker 1: I always want to remind people, James and Amanda, is

77
00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,680
Speaker 1: it's your money. You've worked hard for that money. It

78
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 1: doesn't belong to the government, doesn't belong to your super fund.

79
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 1: It's yours. And if you choose to use that at

80
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,920
Speaker 1: a time when you need it to get a deposit together,

81
00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 1: and then responsibly reinvest it back into superannuation, that's your choice.

82
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,600
Speaker 1: And that's what this policy does. It gives people that

83
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 1: choice and ability to get into a home.

84
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,880
Speaker 2: There was another policy too that fifty five year old

85
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 2: would be able to plow three hundred thousand into superannuation

86
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,400
Speaker 2: from the sale of their home, freeing up their family

87
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,280
Speaker 2: home for family new families to move into. But if

88
00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 2: you're fifty five, I'm sixty, I still have to live somewhere.

89
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 2: I don't want to live in a tent, so I

90
00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,720
Speaker 2: sell my home. I don't know how many first home

91
00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,400
Speaker 2: buyers are buying big family homes, and then I have

92
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 2: to leave your house.

93
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 4: It's a good house, that'd be worth a bit of coin.

94
00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,120
Speaker 2: But the point is that that's not freeing up any

95
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,240
Speaker 2: property because I still have to buy a property.

96
00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,159
Speaker 4: Actual And that man makes a good point there. So say,

97
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,919
Speaker 4: for example, you've got a big four or five bedroom house,

98
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,360
Speaker 4: it's worth three million bucks. Say you sell that for

99
00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,280
Speaker 4: three point five million dollars as the property market is

100
00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,560
Speaker 4: at the moment. Then you downsize to a one point

101
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,080
Speaker 4: five million dollar unit. So you've got a one point

102
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,320
Speaker 4: five million dollar thing. So you can put three hundred

103
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,839
Speaker 4: thousand dollars into super. What happens with the rest of

104
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:45,440
Speaker 4: that money is that your money? Where does that go?

105
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can put up to three hundred thousand dollars

106
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 1: per person, so for a couple that will be six hundred,

107
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,599
Speaker 1: but six hundred and at the moment, if you do

108
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,080
Speaker 1: that over the age of fifty five, well that sits

109
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,080
Speaker 1: outside of SUPER in an environment that's not as tax effective.

110
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,560
Speaker 1: What this basically does is gives people more people that

111
00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,279
Speaker 1: option to put it into the tax effective environment of superannuation.

112
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,640
Speaker 1: To contribute the six hundred thousand in and you know,

113
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,600
Speaker 1: we've put this policy in place in twenty seventeen and

114
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,599
Speaker 1: it applied at that time to sixty five year olds

115
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,200
Speaker 1: and over we've had more than thirty six thousand people

116
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 1: utilize it, more than nine million dollars put into super

117
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,799
Speaker 1: We know it does fore up some of the stock

118
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,440
Speaker 1: that is stocked for first time buys. I'd concede amount

119
00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,480
Speaker 1: of Not every single home that's part of downsize is

120
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 1: necessarily in that category, but a lot is. But this

121
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,520
Speaker 1: is as much about removing the barriers for people who

122
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,720
Speaker 1: want to downsize, and you know, not everyone wants to downsize, Amanda.

123
00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,600
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who will want to stay

124
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 1: in their home, but there are people who see as

125
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,240
Speaker 1: a barrier. You know, what on earth do I do

126
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,520
Speaker 1: with these proceeds afterwards? We're removing that barrier and giving

127
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,280
Speaker 1: them that sort of free choice to do it. But

128
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,920
Speaker 1: not everyone will want to downsize, but we know based

129
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,400
Speaker 1: on what we put in place to date that you know,

130
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,799
Speaker 1: more than thirty six zerousand people have had a pretty

131
00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:04,599
Speaker 1: sizeable impact.

132
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 2: What about other measures to get more houses, to free

133
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,839
Speaker 2: up more places for people to buy? What about capping

134
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,120
Speaker 2: the number of investment properties that one person can buy

135
00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 2: a negatively gear it seems that that's what's locking a

136
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,040
Speaker 2: lot of people out of the market as well.

137
00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,359
Speaker 1: Well. No, I mean, we don't support that, and you know,

138
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 1: in fact, we've at the last two elections, as I'm

139
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 1: sure you're aware, we have opposed what was then a

140
00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:35,279
Speaker 1: labor policy to essentially essentially put on a housing tax.

141
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,560
Speaker 1: To do that. We know that the vast majority of

142
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,599
Speaker 1: people who own an investment property owned one investment property

143
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,200
Speaker 1: and they've invested in that for their retirement. In the

144
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 1: two categories of employees or the two categories of workers

145
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,679
Speaker 1: who are the most investment properties are teachers and nurses.

146
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:58,200
Speaker 1: So we're not talking really about millionaires and billionaires. We're

147
00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,800
Speaker 1: talking about people who are providing for their retirement. That's

148
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,960
Speaker 1: why we don't support putting more taxes on housing. Labor

149
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,000
Speaker 1: has certainly taken that to the last two elections, and

150
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,960
Speaker 1: I suspect, in their heart of hearts still like that policy,

151
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,160
Speaker 1: but we don't think that that has an impact. What

152
00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 1: we do want to do, though, is give first home

153
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 1: buyers the ability to get that deposit together, level the

154
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,040
Speaker 1: playing field for first home buyers help them get access

155
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 1: to up to fifty thousand dollars or forty percent of

156
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,920
Speaker 1: their superbalance two years now to get into a property.

157
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 1: We know that will change so many lives, not only

158
00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,280
Speaker 1: their lives in owning a home now, but also their

159
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 1: lives in retirement, because we know that if you enter

160
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,239
Speaker 1: retirement owning a home, you're in a far better position

161
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 1: financially than if you don't.

162
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 4: And the states could get rid of stamp duty and

163
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,640
Speaker 4: that would make it easier for everyone. And I know

164
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 4: that's not really a federal issue, but would you agree

165
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:49,720
Speaker 4: with that?

166
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,560
Speaker 1: No? I mean, James, I think you make a good point.

167
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 1: In independent analysis has showed that in Sydney forty four

168
00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,640
Speaker 1: percent of the cost of a new home is represented

169
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,240
Speaker 1: by taxes and regulatory charges forty four percent and that

170
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 1: includes stamp duty. So nearly half the cost of a

171
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:12,440
Speaker 1: home in Sydney is represented is in taxes, either state

172
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 1: or local taxes and other regulatory charges. So you know,

173
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 1: we've been encouraging and pushing the states to try and

174
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 1: do that, but the Labor Party have viewed housing as

175
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,600
Speaker 1: an area where you can just continually tax, you just

176
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,280
Speaker 1: load more taxes on that was the big fight we've

177
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,200
Speaker 1: had with them over the last few years about their

178
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,800
Speaker 1: housing taxes. We think there's enough taxes on housing, and

179
00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 1: let's be frank as I'm sure you both know, Jones

180
00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,599
Speaker 1: and Amanda, the people that ultimately wear the costs for

181
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,199
Speaker 1: the tax are the end buyers, are those first time buyers, which.

182
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:46,880
Speaker 2: We do have this big cult though, don't we have

183
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,080
Speaker 2: owning your own home in Australia, in Europe and in

184
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 2: other parts of the world, you can rent with rental

185
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,720
Speaker 2: security for your entire life and save money in other ways,

186
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,840
Speaker 2: keep your money in super We keep banging on about

187
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 2: buying your own home that may not necessarily be the

188
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,280
Speaker 2: best way for everyone to live.

189
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Amanda, I don't think. I don't think we want

190
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,400
Speaker 1: to be forcing anybody to do anything. Thirty percent of people.

191
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,280
Speaker 2: Rent, that's a big number.

192
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 1: That is a big number, and we don't want to

193
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 1: force anybody to do anything. But what I don't want

194
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 1: to do, Amanda, is wave the white flag like the

195
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 1: Labor Party seemingly has and say, Okay, you know, the

196
00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 1: greatest rain and dream of owning your home is gone,

197
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,560
Speaker 1: so we're going to accept that. I just will not

198
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,840
Speaker 1: accept that that's why we continually find ways to support

199
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,040
Speaker 1: people to buy homes, and that's what this policy does.

200
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,480
Speaker 4: Maybe we should buy little duplex. We me and you

201
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 4: move in together, Amanda, Michael could be upstairs, downstairs. It

202
00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 4: could be a whole thing like little villages.

203
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:46,040
Speaker 2: Village idiots. Thank you for your time to all that.

204
00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 4: Than you so much for joining us.

205
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,280
Speaker 1: Thanks guys really appreciate it.

206
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:49,640
Speaker 3: Thank you.

207
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,679
Speaker 4: Michael Suka there, Minister for Housing,