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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, I guess every decision has a price, and when

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Speaker 2: I weighed up the cost of trying to juggle everything,

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Speaker 2: the cost was just too high.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson here with my wife

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Speaker 3: and podcast partner, missus Happy Families, Kylie. I'm the author

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Speaker 3: of six books about raising happy families, and we between well,

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Speaker 3: between us, we have pro created six times. We have

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Speaker 3: six daughters in our family, and we do our best

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Speaker 3: to be happy.

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Speaker 2: You know, our kids would be rolling their eyes right

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Speaker 2: now if they heard you say.

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Speaker 4: That we've pro created six times. I actually can't believe that.

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Speaker 2: I think it's only being six times.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: Just the other day, I was doing some learner driving

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Speaker 3: stuff with one of our children, who happens to be

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Speaker 3: on her l's and she asked me the question. She said, Mum,

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Speaker 3: it's her dad, She said, Dad. So I'm nervous even

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Speaker 3: talking about this. She said, Dad, do you because you

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Speaker 3: and mom are kind of old now and you've already

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Speaker 3: had six kids, do you guys still have you know much.

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Speaker 4: And then and then she sort of whispered.

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Speaker 3: Sex, and I was like, Oh, I'm going to take

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Speaker 3: a really big deep breath here and just talk about

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Speaker 3: how relationships evolve and develop and how When.

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Speaker 4: Did you answer the question?

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Speaker 3: No, But what I did say is that when couples

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Speaker 3: are really focused on pleasing one another, that they can

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Speaker 3: enjoy a wonderful intimate life well into their seventies, eighties

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Speaker 3: and maybe even beyond. I mean, we don't really know

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Speaker 3: anyone beyond that jag. She just kind of nodded her head.

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Speaker 3: I think she was processing, like, where on earth does

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Speaker 3: this go from here? Anyway, We've got really a really

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Speaker 3: important conversation to have this morning in this podcast, because

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Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago, we had a conversation about

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Speaker 3: your new decision this year to kick off twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: one with study. You're going to go back to school,

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Speaker 3: going to make it all happen. Full of confidence made

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Speaker 3: the decision as well.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't actually full of confidence that can out of

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Speaker 2: my brain.

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Speaker 4: Fact, let's have a listen to what we said.

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Speaker 2: I need to find ways that I can be creative

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Speaker 2: in my space that enable me to fill joy and

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Speaker 2: purpose outside of my role as a mum, because that's

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Speaker 2: only one of my roles.

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Speaker 4: Kylie has just enrolled in school.

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Speaker 3: Kylie's going to go back to school next year, which

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Speaker 3: hopefully we'll fill your cup but not empty house because

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Speaker 3: because Kylie is going to become a florist.

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Speaker 2: Kylie, well, I'm not going to become a florist, but

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Speaker 2: I'm going to learn the art of floristry. That's probably

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Speaker 2: a better way of saying.

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Speaker 4: It's so excited for you.

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Speaker 2: I'm very, very excited about it.

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Speaker 3: And whenever you've got school, let's say it's on a Wednesday,

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Speaker 3: I'll be looking after dinner that night.

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Speaker 4: Oh I love the idea of that.

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Speaker 3: So we'll be having takeaway every Wednesday. So honey, how's

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Speaker 3: the study going.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a bit of an interesting question.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I think the answer is it's not right.

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Speaker 3: It's not let's talk about this, and the reason that

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Speaker 3: we want to talk about this, I mean, we were

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Speaker 3: so pumped for you to go and do this course

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Speaker 3: at tay if you're going to do a six month

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Speaker 3: course in florestry, and we were super excited for the

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Speaker 3: development and the learning and the skill acquisition.

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Speaker 4: And then something happened well.

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Speaker 2: Let's face it, it's been twenty one years. I've been

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Speaker 2: a stay at home for twenty one years, which.

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Speaker 3: Is why you wanted to go. All right, this is

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Speaker 3: something where you can use your strengths. You're passionate about it,

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Speaker 3: You're really excited about doing that. And the twenty one

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Speaker 3: years thing didn't really factor into the decision not to

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Speaker 3: continue with studies this year.

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Speaker 2: No, but it was definitely part of the excitement in

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Speaker 2: just being able to develop myself further and learn this

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Speaker 2: new skill and meet new people. You know, often your

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Speaker 2: circles are very limited when you're at home with the children, and.

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Speaker 4: I'm so like, I can't tell you how excited I was.

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Speaker 3: You've sacrificed so much for twenty something years now so

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Speaker 3: that you can raise our children while I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: become the breadwinner.

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Speaker 4: And I've gone to do my studies, and I've had

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Speaker 4: a couple of.

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Speaker 3: Different careers, and so this was your opportunity, right, this

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Speaker 3: was your chance to say, Okay, finally it's time for

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Speaker 3: me to do something for me. You've shown up on

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Speaker 3: orientation day and I've.

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Speaker 2: Had a bit of a meltdown as I've sat there

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Speaker 2: and I've listened to everything that they had to share.

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Speaker 2: I knew most of it, and I had got my

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Speaker 2: head around what was expected, and then they added a

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Speaker 2: few extra bits and pieces that I hadn't been aware of,

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Speaker 2: and I started to kind of just reel in the

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Speaker 2: logistics of how I was going to make it work.

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Speaker 2: Can I do the work one hundred percent? Was I

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Speaker 2: worried about being able to do the work?

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Speaker 5: Not at all?

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Speaker 3: Okay, So it wasn't really a confidence issue. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: like you were sort of saying, Gee, I don't know

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Speaker 3: if I can get through this. I'm not signing up

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Speaker 3: to do law or medicine. I'm going to become a florist.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that there's a lot that still needs to

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Speaker 3: be learned, but it's a six month course, not a

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Speaker 3: four year university course, so there's clearly a different cognitive

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Speaker 3: load and a different timeframe. So it wasn't about the

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Speaker 3: learning as such, ayt.

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Speaker 2: I was going into it. I knew that it was

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Speaker 2: going to be a stretch for our family logistically, but

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Speaker 2: adding a few extra logistics to it after I had

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Speaker 2: already mapped out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like getting up on a Monday morning at four thirty,

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Speaker 3: so you can get to the markets to buy flowers,

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Speaker 3: and then being at TAYE for two and a half

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Speaker 3: days every week, full.

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Speaker 2: Time fighting peak hour traffic morning and evening, meaning that

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Speaker 2: I literally would not see the children Monday, Tuesday.

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Speaker 4: And half of Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: And then the additional extra, you know, six or seven

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Speaker 2: hours that I had to do independence study would mean

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Speaker 2: that probably Wednesday wouldn't see them either, and that was

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Speaker 2: really hard to kind of get my head around. Firstly,

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Speaker 2: But at the same time that happened, you had some

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Speaker 2: massive stuff going on for you, and we recognize that

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Speaker 2: when we looked at the calendar, out of sixty days

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Speaker 2: that I had contact hours with, you were not even

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Speaker 2: going to be here for thirty of them.

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Speaker 4: And the calendar hasn't really started to fill up yet.

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Speaker 2: It hasn't, And so the realization that I was going

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Speaker 2: to have to try and juggle all of this on

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Speaker 2: my own with limited support. My mum's about to have

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Speaker 2: a hip replacement, so she's not going to be any help.

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Speaker 2: They're about to move into their new house, so I

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Speaker 2: don't have any family structures in place at the moment

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Speaker 2: that would be helpful either.

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Speaker 4: And you've got a husband who's just no help at all.

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Speaker 2: Well that's not true, but logistically you're not here often.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so I want to talk about

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Speaker 3: the thinking process that you went through, because every I'm

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Speaker 3: sure every family goes through this. You know, you've got

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Speaker 3: one person who's a primary bread winner and then another

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Speaker 3: person who Sometimes there may be two primary bread winners,

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Speaker 3: but not many families like that. Most have a primary

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Speaker 3: bread winner and then somebody who supplements the income. And

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Speaker 3: we let's acknowledge straight up, we're in a really wonderful

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Speaker 3: and fortunate position where me being the primary bread winner

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Speaker 3: is it is enough for our family. Sometimes it's not,

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Speaker 3: but my most of the time it is. Over the years,

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Speaker 3: it hasn't always been. But at the moment, we're in

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Speaker 3: a position where you can actually make a decision to

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Speaker 3: work or to not work. And we're so grateful that

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Speaker 3: at this point you're home with the family. But this

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Speaker 3: was a chance for you to really go out and

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Speaker 3: do something that you were excited to do. And so

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Speaker 3: in just a second, well we're going to take a

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Speaker 3: quick break. But when we come back after the break,

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Speaker 3: what I really want to do is unpack how you

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Speaker 3: made that decision, because our family went through two or

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Speaker 3: three days of fairly significant discomfort as you were kind

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Speaker 3: of working through it.

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Speaker 2: It was a wrestle with this.

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Speaker 4: Pretty grumpy with everybody.

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Speaker 3: But I want to work out the kinds of questions

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Speaker 3: that you were asking yourself. And of course this isn't

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Speaker 3: going to work for everybody, but let's spend a couple

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Speaker 3: of minutes on that in just a sec so that

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Speaker 3: we can understand the sacrifices that mums make.

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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcame.

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Speaker 5: Our Screens Creating Tension at Home, Tweens, Teens and Screens

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Speaker 5: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe super

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Speaker 5: screen by today at happy families dot com dot are

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Speaker 5: you slash shop.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now and Well, we've

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Speaker 3: had a big decision get reversed in the last little while.

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Speaker 3: Kylie was off to school. Now she's not going to school,

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Speaker 3: and we've had to really wrestle our way through some

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Speaker 3: really challenging times. Now at the outset, we've highlighted we're

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Speaker 3: in a privileged position where you can choose to study

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Speaker 3: or work or not.

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Speaker 4: And we've also highlighted.

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Speaker 3: I think that I really wanted you to be able

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Speaker 3: to do this, and I was really supportive, but because

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Speaker 3: I am the primary bread winner, my calendar was making

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Speaker 3: logistics just a real challenge. It was almost like we

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Speaker 3: would have to hire somebody to come and look after

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Speaker 3: our children so that you could go and do this course.

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Speaker 3: It was the only way we could get through due

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Speaker 3: to not having enough support around us, to rely on

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Speaker 3: family and friends and so on. And so you've made

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Speaker 3: this decision that you're not going to study. But what

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Speaker 3: was it like going through that. I mean, it was

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Speaker 3: almost a week, but there was two or three days

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Speaker 3: that were particularly intense. Walk us through how it is

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Speaker 3: as a mum when you finally think my time has come.

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Speaker 3: I've raised the kids and now I've got an opportunity.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we've still got kids that require raising, but

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Speaker 3: now I've got an opportunity to go and study, and

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Speaker 3: I really want to do this. What's happened for you there?

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Speaker 2: I started to really unravel. I think I really started

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Speaker 2: to unravel. I as I thought about, you know, this

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Speaker 2: wonderful opportunity that was placed before me, and in the

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Speaker 2: realization that logistically I just couldn't make it work. I

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Speaker 2: guess I kind of went into that big black hole

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Speaker 2: that I think mums all around the world go through

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Speaker 2: at some point, is you know, when is it going

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Speaker 2: to be my turn? Why do I have to always

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Speaker 2: give up the things that I want? And I'm going

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Speaker 2: to get emotional because it's a really, really difficult space

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Speaker 2: to find yourself in when you recognize that you've given

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Speaker 2: so much for so long and you want something, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we want it bad, and then you realize that it's

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Speaker 2: actually just not going to work.

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Speaker 3: Couples need to be able to come together on these topics,

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Speaker 3: and for us, we decided that, well you decided that

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Speaker 3: you're going to wait another couple of years.

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Speaker 2: It took me a while to get to that realization.

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Speaker 2: But as I kind of wrestled with all of those

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Speaker 2: feelings of I guess, sacrifice and feeling hard done by

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Speaker 2: and not from anything you had said. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: have been amazing and amazing support as I've kind of

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Speaker 2: worked through it, and you were happy for us to

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Speaker 2: organize to have a nanny come along to make this

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Speaker 2: a realization.

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Speaker 3: Well, I said, I was happy about it, But now

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Speaker 3: that we're talking about it and the decision has made.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't that thrilled about it, but I would have

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Speaker 4: to support you.

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Speaker 2: You would have and I know that. But then I

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Speaker 2: started to kind of, I guess, take it through my

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Speaker 2: values filter and start to really think about what are

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Speaker 2: the things that mean the most to me, what are

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Speaker 2: my priorities, and what are the things that I stand for.

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Speaker 2: And as I started to think about those things and

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Speaker 2: really kind of live into those values, I realized that

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Speaker 2: again privileged decision that I'm able to make. This was

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Speaker 2: a want and not a need. And right now my

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Speaker 2: family needs me.

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Speaker 4: And I need you and you need me.

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Speaker 2: And that was still hard even coming to that realization

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Speaker 2: for myself. That was hard to sit with for a

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Speaker 2: few days. What I found is that the longer I

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Speaker 2: sat there this suffocating feeling that I had been experiencing

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Speaker 2: as I was trying to work out how I could

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Speaker 2: do it all, you know, how I could be the

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Speaker 2: mum that I want to be and the wife that

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Speaker 2: I want to be and be where I need to be,

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Speaker 2: but do something I want to do. I couldn't physically

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Speaker 2: do it all, and so I had to make a

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Speaker 2: decision about what was most important to me, and at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, my want it's at the

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Speaker 2: bottom of the list because I will pick my family

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Speaker 2: every day over any of the other things. And the

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Speaker 2: exciting thing is it's not gone forever. I'm giving it

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Speaker 2: up now, but that doesn't mean that I can't do

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Speaker 2: it next year or in three years time, or in

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Speaker 2: three years time. My needs and interest change and I'm

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Speaker 2: able to do something different. But once I actually came

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Speaker 2: to that realization and I re I guess, engaged with

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Speaker 2: those values, I can't actually tell you how empowered I feel.

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Speaker 2: This has been such an amazing experience. When we thought,

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Speaker 2: when we decided we were going to talk about this today,

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Speaker 2: like I really, I kind of, I guess hung my

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Speaker 2: head in shame. I've quit, I've given up, I've let

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Speaker 2: go of, you know, this dream that I've wanted to,

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Speaker 2: you know, accomplish something, you know, amazing that I could

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Speaker 2: kind of show my kids. And I was, I guess,

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Speaker 2: feeling a little bit, I don't know what the right

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Speaker 2: word is. I guess I was feeling a little bit,

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Speaker 2: you know, if I'm completely honest, I was feeling shame

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Speaker 2: that I can't be that woman. I've watched women do

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Speaker 2: this and seem to be able to juggle all of

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Speaker 2: these balls at once, and I recognize that I can't.

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Speaker 3: You know, I reckon, I'm going to interrupt you for

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Speaker 3: a second. I reckon you could. What you've done is

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Speaker 3: you've chosen not to. You've said, I don't want to.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be running faster than my legs

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Speaker 3: can carry me. We do that too much because I'm

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Speaker 3: married to Justin Coulson. For crying out, lad, I want

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Speaker 3: to try and slow things down.

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Speaker 2: I guess every decision has a price, and when I

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Speaker 2: weighed up the cost of trying to juggle everything, the

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Speaker 2: cost was just too high and I willn't prepared to

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Speaker 2: pay that price.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I reckon what you've actually done. And

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Speaker 3: not every family is going to make that decision. Not

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Speaker 3: every family can make that decision, and certainly people have

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Speaker 3: different values. And we're not suggesting or implying that somebody

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Speaker 3: should do this, because this is what you've chosen to do.

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Speaker 3: This is just who we are, and this is your story.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to share the fact that you've quit with

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Speaker 3: everybody because I think that it takes courage to make

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Speaker 3: a decision and then say it wasn't even necessarily the

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Speaker 3: wrong decision.

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Speaker 4: But the timing's wrong. It's not what I'm going to

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Speaker 4: do right now.

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Speaker 3: It takes a lot of courage to walk back a decision,

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Speaker 3: especially when you've made it publicly on a podcast where

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Speaker 3: there's you know, tens and tens and tens of thousands

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Speaker 3: of people who are listening to this decision. In fact,

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Speaker 3: somebody just recently said, hey, how's Kylie going with their studies?

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Speaker 4: And I said, it was funny you should ask. So

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Speaker 4: it takes courage.

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Speaker 3: But you know, you talk about you wanted to be

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Speaker 3: able to show the girls, our daughters, that you could

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Speaker 3: achieve something. And I think that what you have actually

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Speaker 3: done is you've shown them that you have achieved something.

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Speaker 4: You've shown them that you.

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Speaker 3: Value something them sufficient that you're willing to When you

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Speaker 3: sacrifice something, what you really do is you give up

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Speaker 3: something of lesser value for something of higher value.

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Speaker 4: And this is why I really wanted to talk about this, because.

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Speaker 3: Mums and dads, but especially in a still fairly male

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Speaker 3: oriented workforce, Mums give up so much. Mums sacrifice so

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Speaker 3: much ongoingly, every day, every week, every month, every year

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Speaker 3: for their families. And I think that what you've done

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Speaker 3: is you've sacrificed. But if you look at that definition

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Speaker 3: of sacrifice that I like to use, you've given up

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Speaker 3: something of lesser value for something of far greater value.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I really appreciate that. Throughout this whole process,

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Speaker 2: there's just been this absolute one hundred percent support and

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Speaker 2: backing me up in my decision, whether it was to

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Speaker 2: study or not to study. And I think that that

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Speaker 2: support is what's actually given me the courage to say

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Speaker 2: no this time, because I know that it will always

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Speaker 2: be there.

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Speaker 3: Well, I wish that you were doing it, but I'm

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Speaker 3: so grateful for the decision that you've made. And I

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Speaker 3: guess I'm just going to have to start saving so

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Speaker 3: that I can afford the bouquets.

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Speaker 4: And the flowers when we finally have another wedding.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully that's not too time too anytime soon as well.

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Speaker 3: Look, this has been one of those conversations that we

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Speaker 3: think is really important because these are the kinds of

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Speaker 3: decisions that every family has to make regularly. Do I

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Speaker 3: go back to school, do I make this sacrifice? Do

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Speaker 3: I go back to work? Do I leave the kids

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Speaker 3: with somebody else? How do we make it all work.

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Speaker 3: I don't know whether it's been helpful for you, whether

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Speaker 3: it's given you some insight into how you can make

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Speaker 3: these decisions in your own family, but we really hope

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Speaker 3: that it has been helpful and we hope that you've

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Speaker 3: enjoyed the podcast.

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Speaker 4: As always, if you do enjoy.

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Speaker 3: It podcast, we would be so grateful if you would

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Speaker 3: leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever

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Speaker 3: you listen. That's when you leave those podcast ratings and

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Speaker 3: reviews that other people get to find out about what

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Speaker 3: we're doing and how we can make their families happier.

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Speaker 3: So please jump online, take ninety seconds and leave a

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Speaker 3: rating and a review. Would be so grateful. The Happy

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Speaker 3: Families podcast is produced by.

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Speaker 4: Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Our executive producer Craig Bruce.

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Speaker 3: If you'd like more information about how we can help

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Speaker 3: your family be happier, please check out the Happy Families memberships.

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Speaker 3: There's so much that we can do with ongoing month

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Speaker 3: to month support to support your family as you make.

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Speaker 4: Big decisions and raise those kids to be happy and resilient.

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Speaker 3: You can get all the information that you need at

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Speaker 3: happy families dot com dot au