Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily
Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Oz. It's Thursday,
Speaker 2: the tenth of October.
Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm Sam.
Speaker 2: Have you ever avoided a visit to the dentist because
Speaker 2: of how much it costs? Well, if you are sitting
Speaker 2: there nodding yes to that question, chances are you.
Speaker 3: Are not alone.
Speaker 2: According to a new report, one in two Aussie's without
Speaker 2: private health insurance has avoided the dentist due to high costs.
Speaker 3: In today's deep dive.
Speaker 2: We're going to explore what we learned from the Australian
Speaker 2: Institute of Health and Welfare's new report and what it
Speaker 2: means for the average Ozzie.
Speaker 3: Before we get into it, though, Sam, what is making headlines.
Speaker 3: Former Labor senator Fatima Payman has announced she's launching a
Speaker 3: new political party called Australia's Four. Payman was elected as
Speaker 3: a Western Australian Labour senator at the last election and
Speaker 3: isn't up for reelection until twenty twenty eight. She quit
Speaker 3: Labor in July after she went against the party's position
Speaker 3: to support a motion calling for recognition of the state
Speaker 3: of Palestine. Payman has since become a vocal critic of
Speaker 3: the Abanese government and sits as an independent in the
Speaker 3: Upper House. Payman said her new party will encourage the
Speaker 3: major parties to quote stop focusing on politics and get
Speaker 3: back to focusing on people.
Speaker 2: Australia's top five universities have all slid down the World
Speaker 2: University Rankings list. That's apparently due to quote declining reputation
Speaker 2: and international outlook. The Times Higher Education University Rankings provide
Speaker 2: a yearly update on the position of global universities. This
Speaker 2: year's index shows Melbourne, Monash and Sydney Universities, alongside the
Speaker 2: Australian National University and the University of Queensland, have all
Speaker 2: dropped down the list. Melbourne University he remains Australia's highest
Speaker 2: ranked position at thirty nine, down two spots from last year.
Speaker 3: Brazil has lifted its ban on the social media platform
Speaker 3: X formerly known as Twitter, ending a five week long
Speaker 3: suspension in the South American country. Last month, Brazil's highest court,
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court, blocked X across the country of more
Speaker 3: than two hundred million people after X failed to comply
Speaker 3: with court orders asking to remove misinformation from its platform.
Speaker 3: The standoff led to direct intervention from X's owner Elon Musk,
Speaker 3: who described the move as censorship and called the judge
Speaker 3: overseeing the case a dictator. X has now published a
Speaker 3: statement saying it's returning to Brazil after agreeing to comply
Speaker 3: with the court's orders to remove certain accounts peddling misinformation,
Speaker 3: and appointed a new Brazilian representative for the company and
Speaker 3: Today's Good News.
Speaker 2: The Nobel Prize in Physics has been awarded to two
Speaker 2: scientists for their developments in machine learning, which helps AI models.
Speaker 2: John Hopfield and Jeffrey Hinton have researched neural networks. Those
Speaker 2: are nodes that process and learn information in a way
Speaker 2: that's inspired by the human brain. The scientists have then
Speaker 2: applied this type of thinking to machines, helping them learn
Speaker 2: and churn data that's in turn been picked up by
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence systems. One of the scientists, who is also
Speaker 2: an ex Google employee, Professor Hinton, is sometimes referred to
Speaker 2: as the godfather of AI, and he's warned of the
Speaker 2: risk that machines could outsmart humans. Sam, it has been
Speaker 2: so long since we've done a podcast together.
Speaker 3: I'm Sam. By the way, It's lovely to pleasure to meet.
Speaker 2: You and run a business with you, but glad to
Speaker 2: be back on with you, especially to talk about something
Speaker 2: I'd say is probably a worst topic on earth to
Speaker 2: talk about. I only realized once we got into the room,
Speaker 2: how much you hate going to the dentist.
Speaker 3: I really hate to be fulfilling stereotypes of dentist phobia.
Speaker 3: I don't mean to be critical of the dentistry profession,
Speaker 3: as we're going to talk about profession. It's very important.
Speaker 3: It takes a two week, a solid two week anxious
Speaker 3: build up to get me to the dentist. I had
Speaker 3: a lot of orthodontic work in my teen years, and
Speaker 3: I think there was just bad experiences there. Anyway, this is, yeah,
Speaker 3: probably the worst topic for me to come back to.
Speaker 3: Great to welcome back. Let's talk about how much this
Speaker 3: delightful experience costs. Okay, so I mean now I'm head there.
Speaker 2: The reason we're talking about it today is because of
Speaker 2: the cost. That's because the Australian Institute of Health and
Speaker 2: Welfare recently released a new report. It was into the
Speaker 2: state of oral health and dental care here in Australia,
Speaker 2: and I think the big headline to come out was
Speaker 2: that it is just very expensive.
Speaker 3: Are we spending a lot as a country on the dentist?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we're spending around eleven billion dollars as
Speaker 2: a country on dental services each year. But if you
Speaker 2: think about that, those are the people that are going
Speaker 2: to the dentist. And what I find interesting is the
Speaker 2: people who aren't going to the dentist and why they're
Speaker 2: not going to the dentist. So one in two Ozzies
Speaker 2: aged fifteen and over didn't visit the dentist in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty twenty three. And according to this report,
Speaker 2: around one in six people who needed to see a
Speaker 2: dentist either delayed or didn't go and see that dentist,
Speaker 2: and one in six said that was because of the
Speaker 2: cost associated with it.
Speaker 3: Right, it is quite expensive to go to the dentist,
Speaker 3: especially if you do need something urgently done or there
Speaker 3: is a complexity to what you need. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: And as with you know, any kind of cost accessibility point,
Speaker 2: it does disproportionately impact some groups. So we know from
Speaker 2: this report that First Nations people were more likely to
Speaker 2: avoid the dentist due to cost than non indigenous Australians,
Speaker 2: So that number was about forty nine percent compared to
Speaker 2: thirty nine percent. And women were also more likely to
Speaker 2: avoid the dentist due to expenses than men. That one
Speaker 2: was around forty three percent compared to thirty five percent.
Speaker 3: So there's this group of Australians that are avoiding the
Speaker 3: because of how much it costs. Within that group, there's
Speaker 3: a group who really need the dentists that are avoiding
Speaker 3: it because of how much it costs. Let's talk about
Speaker 3: private health insurance. What do we know about the group
Speaker 3: of Australians who have private health insurance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, as we I guess would expect here, Australians
Speaker 2: without private health insurance are twice as likely to avoid
Speaker 2: the dentists because of cost compared to those with insurance.
Speaker 2: And I mean that can be for any number of reasons.
Speaker 2: If you are in a position to get private health insurance,
Speaker 2: you are likely to have access to more money in
Speaker 2: the first place, So there's quite a bit that goes
Speaker 2: into that. But AIHW spokesperson doctor Adrian Webster said that
Speaker 2: even after private health insurance payments, out of pocket dental
Speaker 2: expenses still vary pretty significantly. So for example, the median
Speaker 2: out of pocket costs of a preventative service, So something
Speaker 2: like removing pluck or stains for patients with private health insurance,
Speaker 2: that could still range from zero to eighty two dollars.
Speaker 2: So even with private health insurance, we're still getting a
Speaker 2: full kind of spectrum of cost here, and that's still
Speaker 2: after paying for private health insurance, creating some cost barriers
Speaker 2: for people.
Speaker 3: So even amongst different groups of Australians, those with or
Speaker 3: without private health insurance, it does sound like quite a
Speaker 3: common experience to grapple with cost at the dentist.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, and it was something you know, we
Speaker 2: uploaded this story to our Instagram, our TDA Instagram earlier
Speaker 2: this week and I was blown away by the engagement
Speaker 2: it got. There were people flooding our comments section, flooding
Speaker 2: our dms, telling us about their own experiences at this
Speaker 2: It really seems to have hit an.
Speaker 3: A like earlier. I think we've gotten to the root
Speaker 3: of that one. Anyway, Sorry that was such a dad joke, but.
Speaker 2: No, it was really something that was mirrored by our audience.
Speaker 2: You know, the things that we saw in that AIHW
Speaker 2: report seemed to be reflected among broader Australians, certainly among
Speaker 2: young Australia. We did a call out to our listeners
Speaker 2: to ask them about their own experiences when it comes
Speaker 2: to accessing gentle care. Here is what we heard from
Speaker 2: paid a TDA listener.
Speaker 1: I put off going to the dentist for three years
Speaker 1: because the last time I went to the dentist they
Speaker 1: told me that I needed my wisdom teeth out, but
Speaker 1: they quoted me three thousand dollars for that, and every
Speaker 1: friend that I spoke to basically paid around the same
Speaker 1: or more for their wisdom teeth removals, which just scared me.
Speaker 1: So I didn't go back until the infections and the
Speaker 1: pain was getting so bad that I got really desperate
Speaker 1: and googled, like, what's the most affordable way to do this,
Speaker 1: and found one dentist in Melbourne that basically they have
Speaker 1: cat pricing, so they will do wisdom teeth removal for
Speaker 1: a certain cat price under one thousand dollars, which was incredible.
Speaker 1: I ended up going with that option, but it's just
Speaker 1: so out of reach most of the time, and I
Speaker 1: just know so many people that paid like five thousand
Speaker 1: dollars just for a simple thing like wisdom teeth removal
Speaker 1: like that should be covered on Medicare because a lot
Speaker 1: of adults need that to happen. And it's not like
Speaker 1: you can just leave your wisdom teeth in at the end.
Speaker 2: There you can hear page referring to Medicare.
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to ask about Medicare because immediately
Speaker 3: you just think, well, Medicare must cover the procedures that
Speaker 3: we all need. Yeah, and in that thinking you would
Speaker 3: be wrong. Well, that's interesting that it's not covered. Talk
Speaker 3: me through that.
Speaker 2: So it's not everything, but the majority of dental services
Speaker 2: are not covered by Medicare. And just a quick reminder
Speaker 2: while we're talking about Medicare here, we're referring there to
Speaker 2: Australia's Universal Health Insurance Scheme and that is what guarantees
Speaker 2: that all Australians can access a range of health and
Speaker 2: hospital services at low or no cost. That's when we
Speaker 2: talk about bulk billing and all of those things. But yeah,
Speaker 2: as I said, those services mostly don't include dental services.
Speaker 2: And I went into a bit of a deep dive
Speaker 2: as to why this.
Speaker 3: Is the case.
Speaker 2: And it turns out when GoF Whitlam, who was the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister who first began designing what we now know
Speaker 2: is Medicare, but at that point was Medibank. Turns out
Speaker 2: he did want to include dental but that due to
Speaker 2: a number of things, things like the cost of it
Speaker 2: and the fact that he was busy negotiating with doctors
Speaker 2: about including you know, their service, it just didn't get
Speaker 2: included at that point. And obviously that was decades and
Speaker 2: decades ago. But in the years since, nothing's really changed
Speaker 2: and it remains mostly excluded today from the Medicare system.
Speaker 3: Has it come up in Australian politics in the health
Speaker 3: policy arena in recent.
Speaker 2: Years it has, and as recently as last month we
Speaker 2: had Health Minister Mark Butler talking about it. He was
Speaker 2: actually ruling out expanding Medicare support to include dental care.
Speaker 2: So he was asked about this, but you know, he
Speaker 2: rejected any calls to expand it. Instead, he was pointing
Speaker 2: to a Medicare scheme that gives children in eligible families
Speaker 2: access to one one hundred dollars of dental services every
Speaker 2: two years. And that's why I was saying that not
Speaker 2: everything is excluded, because there are some kind of programs
Speaker 2: for children and for certain groups, but the majority are excluded.
Speaker 2: But he was saying about that program that only forty
Speaker 2: percent of eligible kids are using that service, and he
Speaker 2: said that the government's focused on actually lifting that number,
Speaker 2: not widening the pool people.
Speaker 3: Who can actually access it.
Speaker 2: So that's the government of the day who have obviously
Speaker 2: the power to change these things and whatever else. But
Speaker 2: then we've got the Greens, and I'd say they have
Speaker 2: been the loudest advocates in our political system for including
Speaker 2: dental in medicare.
Speaker 3: I remember it coming up a lot last election.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been I mean, it's nothing new for them.
Speaker 2: They've been talking about it for a while. The last election,
Speaker 2: like you mentioned, they committed to investing seventy seven billion
Speaker 2: dollars over the decade to provide free dental care. I
Speaker 2: presume that they'll probably take the same or a similar
Speaker 2: approach to the next election, given that nothing has really
Speaker 2: given in that time since you know, the last election.
Speaker 2: And then if we look outside of politics and look
Speaker 2: at I guess industry stakeholders, we can see that the
Speaker 2: Consumer's Health Forum, which is an accessible healthcare advocacy body,
Speaker 2: they're actually also calling for the same thing. So after
Speaker 2: the AIH report was released, their CEO, doctor Elizabeth Devinie
Speaker 2: said that their needs to be a Medicare overhaul to
Speaker 2: improve the public dental system.
Speaker 3: And she said, and.
Speaker 2: I'm quoting here, we have adults in some parts of
Speaker 2: the country waiting five hundred or six hundred days to
Speaker 2: get in on the public dental system. This clearly isn't
Speaker 2: a universal system which provides for us all. So there
Speaker 2: she's calling for changes to the system itself.
Speaker 3: It's a really interesting discussion, this one because of the
Speaker 3: universality of dental care, or at least an aspiring universality
Speaker 3: of dental care. But based on Mark Butler's comments you
Speaker 3: just told us about, doesn't sound like things are going
Speaker 3: to move very quickly anytime to no.
Speaker 2: And I mean the accessibility of services of health services
Speaker 2: isn't unique to just dental. I mean, we've spoken on
Speaker 2: this pod so many times before about you know, GPS,
Speaker 2: and we know that Medicare of course covers visits to
Speaker 2: general practitioners, but that there still remain these big issues
Speaker 2: in being able to find gps who will bulk bill
Speaker 2: and being able to actually get into them. The same
Speaker 2: of course with psychologists. And it seems like the government's
Speaker 2: really focusing their energies there, but that doesn't mean that,
Speaker 2: you know, dental and accessibility to dental is an issue
Speaker 2: that's going away, so definitely one to keep an eye on.
Speaker 3: It's great to sink our teeth into that one. Zarah.
Speaker 3: Great to be back on the podcast as well, and
Speaker 3: thank you for joining us on the Daily Ods this morning.
Speaker 3: If you're listening to this podcast and you like what
Speaker 3: we do, it really means a lot when you support us.
Speaker 3: You can follow or subscribe if you're on Spotify or Apple,
Speaker 3: and if you're on YouTube, we'd love you to subscribe
Speaker 3: to our channel as well. We'll be back again with
Speaker 3: another episode tomorrow. Until then, go see the dentist and
Speaker 3: have a good day.
Speaker 4: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Speaker 4: Bunjelung Kalguton woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges
Speaker 4: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Speaker 4: Gadigol people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Speaker 4: Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to the
Speaker 4: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Speaker 3: Ye