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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily

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Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Oz. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 2: the tenth of October.

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Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm Sam.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever avoided a visit to the dentist because

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Speaker 2: of how much it costs? Well, if you are sitting

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Speaker 2: there nodding yes to that question, chances are you.

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Speaker 3: Are not alone.

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Speaker 2: According to a new report, one in two Aussie's without

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Speaker 2: private health insurance has avoided the dentist due to high costs.

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Speaker 3: In today's deep dive.

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Speaker 2: We're going to explore what we learned from the Australian

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Speaker 2: Institute of Health and Welfare's new report and what it

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Speaker 2: means for the average Ozzie.

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Speaker 3: Before we get into it, though, Sam, what is making headlines.

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Speaker 3: Former Labor senator Fatima Payman has announced she's launching a

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Speaker 3: new political party called Australia's Four. Payman was elected as

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Speaker 3: a Western Australian Labour senator at the last election and

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Speaker 3: isn't up for reelection until twenty twenty eight. She quit

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Speaker 3: Labor in July after she went against the party's position

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Speaker 3: to support a motion calling for recognition of the state

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Speaker 3: of Palestine. Payman has since become a vocal critic of

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Speaker 3: the Abanese government and sits as an independent in the

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Speaker 3: Upper House. Payman said her new party will encourage the

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Speaker 3: major parties to quote stop focusing on politics and get

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Speaker 3: back to focusing on people.

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Speaker 2: Australia's top five universities have all slid down the World

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Speaker 2: University Rankings list. That's apparently due to quote declining reputation

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Speaker 2: and international outlook. The Times Higher Education University Rankings provide

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Speaker 2: a yearly update on the position of global universities. This

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Speaker 2: year's index shows Melbourne, Monash and Sydney Universities, alongside the

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Speaker 2: Australian National University and the University of Queensland, have all

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Speaker 2: dropped down the list. Melbourne University he remains Australia's highest

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Speaker 2: ranked position at thirty nine, down two spots from last year.

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Speaker 3: Brazil has lifted its ban on the social media platform

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Speaker 3: X formerly known as Twitter, ending a five week long

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Speaker 3: suspension in the South American country. Last month, Brazil's highest court,

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court, blocked X across the country of more

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Speaker 3: than two hundred million people after X failed to comply

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Speaker 3: with court orders asking to remove misinformation from its platform.

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Speaker 3: The standoff led to direct intervention from X's owner Elon Musk,

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Speaker 3: who described the move as censorship and called the judge

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Speaker 3: overseeing the case a dictator. X has now published a

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Speaker 3: statement saying it's returning to Brazil after agreeing to comply

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Speaker 3: with the court's orders to remove certain accounts peddling misinformation,

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Speaker 3: and appointed a new Brazilian representative for the company and

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Speaker 3: Today's Good News.

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Speaker 2: The Nobel Prize in Physics has been awarded to two

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Speaker 2: scientists for their developments in machine learning, which helps AI models.

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Speaker 2: John Hopfield and Jeffrey Hinton have researched neural networks. Those

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Speaker 2: are nodes that process and learn information in a way

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Speaker 2: that's inspired by the human brain. The scientists have then

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Speaker 2: applied this type of thinking to machines, helping them learn

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Speaker 2: and churn data that's in turn been picked up by

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Speaker 2: artificial intelligence systems. One of the scientists, who is also

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Speaker 2: an ex Google employee, Professor Hinton, is sometimes referred to

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Speaker 2: as the godfather of AI, and he's warned of the

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Speaker 2: risk that machines could outsmart humans. Sam, it has been

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Speaker 2: so long since we've done a podcast together.

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Speaker 3: I'm Sam. By the way, It's lovely to pleasure to meet.

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Speaker 2: You and run a business with you, but glad to

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Speaker 2: be back on with you, especially to talk about something

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Speaker 2: I'd say is probably a worst topic on earth to

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Speaker 2: talk about. I only realized once we got into the room,

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Speaker 2: how much you hate going to the dentist.

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Speaker 3: I really hate to be fulfilling stereotypes of dentist phobia.

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Speaker 3: I don't mean to be critical of the dentistry profession,

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Speaker 3: as we're going to talk about profession. It's very important.

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Speaker 3: It takes a two week, a solid two week anxious

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Speaker 3: build up to get me to the dentist. I had

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Speaker 3: a lot of orthodontic work in my teen years, and

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Speaker 3: I think there was just bad experiences there. Anyway, this is, yeah,

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Speaker 3: probably the worst topic for me to come back to.

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Speaker 3: Great to welcome back. Let's talk about how much this

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Speaker 3: delightful experience costs. Okay, so I mean now I'm head there.

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Speaker 2: The reason we're talking about it today is because of

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Speaker 2: the cost. That's because the Australian Institute of Health and

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Speaker 2: Welfare recently released a new report. It was into the

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Speaker 2: state of oral health and dental care here in Australia,

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Speaker 2: and I think the big headline to come out was

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Speaker 2: that it is just very expensive.

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Speaker 3: Are we spending a lot as a country on the dentist?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we're spending around eleven billion dollars as

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Speaker 2: a country on dental services each year. But if you

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Speaker 2: think about that, those are the people that are going

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Speaker 2: to the dentist. And what I find interesting is the

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Speaker 2: people who aren't going to the dentist and why they're

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Speaker 2: not going to the dentist. So one in two Ozzies

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Speaker 2: aged fifteen and over didn't visit the dentist in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty twenty three. And according to this report,

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Speaker 2: around one in six people who needed to see a

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Speaker 2: dentist either delayed or didn't go and see that dentist,

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Speaker 2: and one in six said that was because of the

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Speaker 2: cost associated with it.

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Speaker 3: Right, it is quite expensive to go to the dentist,

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Speaker 3: especially if you do need something urgently done or there

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Speaker 3: is a complexity to what you need. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: And as with you know, any kind of cost accessibility point,

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Speaker 2: it does disproportionately impact some groups. So we know from

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Speaker 2: this report that First Nations people were more likely to

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Speaker 2: avoid the dentist due to cost than non indigenous Australians,

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Speaker 2: So that number was about forty nine percent compared to

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Speaker 2: thirty nine percent. And women were also more likely to

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Speaker 2: avoid the dentist due to expenses than men. That one

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Speaker 2: was around forty three percent compared to thirty five percent.

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Speaker 3: So there's this group of Australians that are avoiding the

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Speaker 3: because of how much it costs. Within that group, there's

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Speaker 3: a group who really need the dentists that are avoiding

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Speaker 3: it because of how much it costs. Let's talk about

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Speaker 3: private health insurance. What do we know about the group

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Speaker 3: of Australians who have private health insurance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, as we I guess would expect here, Australians

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Speaker 2: without private health insurance are twice as likely to avoid

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Speaker 2: the dentists because of cost compared to those with insurance.

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Speaker 2: And I mean that can be for any number of reasons.

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Speaker 2: If you are in a position to get private health insurance,

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Speaker 2: you are likely to have access to more money in

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Speaker 2: the first place, So there's quite a bit that goes

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Speaker 2: into that. But AIHW spokesperson doctor Adrian Webster said that

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Speaker 2: even after private health insurance payments, out of pocket dental

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Speaker 2: expenses still vary pretty significantly. So for example, the median

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Speaker 2: out of pocket costs of a preventative service, So something

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Speaker 2: like removing pluck or stains for patients with private health insurance,

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Speaker 2: that could still range from zero to eighty two dollars.

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Speaker 2: So even with private health insurance, we're still getting a

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Speaker 2: full kind of spectrum of cost here, and that's still

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Speaker 2: after paying for private health insurance, creating some cost barriers

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Speaker 2: for people.

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Speaker 3: So even amongst different groups of Australians, those with or

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Speaker 3: without private health insurance, it does sound like quite a

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Speaker 3: common experience to grapple with cost at the dentist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, and it was something you know, we

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Speaker 2: uploaded this story to our Instagram, our TDA Instagram earlier

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Speaker 2: this week and I was blown away by the engagement

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Speaker 2: it got. There were people flooding our comments section, flooding

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Speaker 2: our dms, telling us about their own experiences at this

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Speaker 2: It really seems to have hit an.

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Speaker 3: A like earlier. I think we've gotten to the root

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Speaker 3: of that one. Anyway, Sorry that was such a dad joke, but.

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Speaker 2: No, it was really something that was mirrored by our audience.

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Speaker 2: You know, the things that we saw in that AIHW

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Speaker 2: report seemed to be reflected among broader Australians, certainly among

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Speaker 2: young Australia. We did a call out to our listeners

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Speaker 2: to ask them about their own experiences when it comes

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Speaker 2: to accessing gentle care. Here is what we heard from

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Speaker 2: paid a TDA listener.

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Speaker 1: I put off going to the dentist for three years

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Speaker 1: because the last time I went to the dentist they

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Speaker 1: told me that I needed my wisdom teeth out, but

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Speaker 1: they quoted me three thousand dollars for that, and every

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Speaker 1: friend that I spoke to basically paid around the same

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Speaker 1: or more for their wisdom teeth removals, which just scared me.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't go back until the infections and the

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Speaker 1: pain was getting so bad that I got really desperate

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Speaker 1: and googled, like, what's the most affordable way to do this,

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Speaker 1: and found one dentist in Melbourne that basically they have

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Speaker 1: cat pricing, so they will do wisdom teeth removal for

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Speaker 1: a certain cat price under one thousand dollars, which was incredible.

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Speaker 1: I ended up going with that option, but it's just

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Speaker 1: so out of reach most of the time, and I

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Speaker 1: just know so many people that paid like five thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars just for a simple thing like wisdom teeth removal

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Speaker 1: like that should be covered on Medicare because a lot

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Speaker 1: of adults need that to happen. And it's not like

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Speaker 1: you can just leave your wisdom teeth in at the end.

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Speaker 2: There you can hear page referring to Medicare.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was going to ask about Medicare because immediately

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Speaker 3: you just think, well, Medicare must cover the procedures that

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Speaker 3: we all need. Yeah, and in that thinking you would

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Speaker 3: be wrong. Well, that's interesting that it's not covered. Talk

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Speaker 3: me through that.

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Speaker 2: So it's not everything, but the majority of dental services

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Speaker 2: are not covered by Medicare. And just a quick reminder

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Speaker 2: while we're talking about Medicare here, we're referring there to

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Speaker 2: Australia's Universal Health Insurance Scheme and that is what guarantees

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Speaker 2: that all Australians can access a range of health and

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Speaker 2: hospital services at low or no cost. That's when we

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Speaker 2: talk about bulk billing and all of those things. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: as I said, those services mostly don't include dental services.

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Speaker 2: And I went into a bit of a deep dive

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Speaker 2: as to why this.

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Speaker 3: Is the case.

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Speaker 2: And it turns out when GoF Whitlam, who was the

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister who first began designing what we now know

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Speaker 2: is Medicare, but at that point was Medibank. Turns out

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Speaker 2: he did want to include dental but that due to

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Speaker 2: a number of things, things like the cost of it

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Speaker 2: and the fact that he was busy negotiating with doctors

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Speaker 2: about including you know, their service, it just didn't get

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Speaker 2: included at that point. And obviously that was decades and

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Speaker 2: decades ago. But in the years since, nothing's really changed

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Speaker 2: and it remains mostly excluded today from the Medicare system.

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Speaker 3: Has it come up in Australian politics in the health

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Speaker 3: policy arena in recent.

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Speaker 2: Years it has, and as recently as last month we

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Speaker 2: had Health Minister Mark Butler talking about it. He was

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Speaker 2: actually ruling out expanding Medicare support to include dental care.

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Speaker 2: So he was asked about this, but you know, he

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Speaker 2: rejected any calls to expand it. Instead, he was pointing

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Speaker 2: to a Medicare scheme that gives children in eligible families

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Speaker 2: access to one one hundred dollars of dental services every

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Speaker 2: two years. And that's why I was saying that not

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Speaker 2: everything is excluded, because there are some kind of programs

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Speaker 2: for children and for certain groups, but the majority are excluded.

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Speaker 2: But he was saying about that program that only forty

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Speaker 2: percent of eligible kids are using that service, and he

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Speaker 2: said that the government's focused on actually lifting that number,

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Speaker 2: not widening the pool people.

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Speaker 3: Who can actually access it.

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Speaker 2: So that's the government of the day who have obviously

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Speaker 2: the power to change these things and whatever else. But

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Speaker 2: then we've got the Greens, and I'd say they have

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Speaker 2: been the loudest advocates in our political system for including

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Speaker 2: dental in medicare.

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Speaker 3: I remember it coming up a lot last election.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been I mean, it's nothing new for them.

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Speaker 2: They've been talking about it for a while. The last election,

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Speaker 2: like you mentioned, they committed to investing seventy seven billion

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Speaker 2: dollars over the decade to provide free dental care. I

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Speaker 2: presume that they'll probably take the same or a similar

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Speaker 2: approach to the next election, given that nothing has really

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Speaker 2: given in that time since you know, the last election.

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Speaker 2: And then if we look outside of politics and look

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Speaker 2: at I guess industry stakeholders, we can see that the

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Speaker 2: Consumer's Health Forum, which is an accessible healthcare advocacy body,

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Speaker 2: they're actually also calling for the same thing. So after

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Speaker 2: the AIH report was released, their CEO, doctor Elizabeth Devinie

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Speaker 2: said that their needs to be a Medicare overhaul to

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Speaker 2: improve the public dental system.

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Speaker 3: And she said, and.

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Speaker 2: I'm quoting here, we have adults in some parts of

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Speaker 2: the country waiting five hundred or six hundred days to

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Speaker 2: get in on the public dental system. This clearly isn't

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Speaker 2: a universal system which provides for us all. So there

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Speaker 2: she's calling for changes to the system itself.

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Speaker 3: It's a really interesting discussion, this one because of the

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Speaker 3: universality of dental care, or at least an aspiring universality

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Speaker 3: of dental care. But based on Mark Butler's comments you

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Speaker 3: just told us about, doesn't sound like things are going

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Speaker 3: to move very quickly anytime to no.

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Speaker 2: And I mean the accessibility of services of health services

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Speaker 2: isn't unique to just dental. I mean, we've spoken on

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Speaker 2: this pod so many times before about you know, GPS,

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Speaker 2: and we know that Medicare of course covers visits to

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Speaker 2: general practitioners, but that there still remain these big issues

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Speaker 2: in being able to find gps who will bulk bill

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Speaker 2: and being able to actually get into them. The same

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Speaker 2: of course with psychologists. And it seems like the government's

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Speaker 2: really focusing their energies there, but that doesn't mean that,

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Speaker 2: you know, dental and accessibility to dental is an issue

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Speaker 2: that's going away, so definitely one to keep an eye on.

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Speaker 3: It's great to sink our teeth into that one. Zarah.

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Speaker 3: Great to be back on the podcast as well, and

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Speaker 3: thank you for joining us on the Daily Ods this morning.

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Speaker 3: If you're listening to this podcast and you like what

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Speaker 3: we do, it really means a lot when you support us.

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Speaker 3: You can follow or subscribe if you're on Spotify or Apple,

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Speaker 3: and if you're on YouTube, we'd love you to subscribe

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Speaker 3: to our channel as well. We'll be back again with

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Speaker 3: another episode tomorrow. Until then, go see the dentist and

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Speaker 3: have a good day.

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Speaker 4: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 4: Bunjelung Kalguton woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 4: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 4: Gadigol people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 4: Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 4: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 3: Ye