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Speaker 1: Hello there, it's Amantha. I'm currently on a Christmas break,

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Speaker 1: so I've handpicked a bunch of my favorite episodes from

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Speaker 1: the last year to share with you. Okay, on with

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Speaker 1: today's best of episode. You probably know that creating good

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Speaker 1: habits can help make you more productive, but can habits

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Speaker 1: make you happier? For me, I quit sugar seven years ago,

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Speaker 1: which makes me a whole lot happier because I no

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Speaker 1: longer have to worry about that awful sugar crash that followed.

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Speaker 1: And my daily exercise habit definitely makes me happier too,

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Speaker 1: as does an evening reading habit that I've recently started

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Speaker 1: to build.

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Speaker 2: But could I be doing more?

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Speaker 1: Is there a way that I could level up that happiness?

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Speaker 2: And could I be making decisions in.

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Speaker 1: A different way to bring me even more happiness? Well,

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Speaker 1: today I get to ask those very questions of my

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Speaker 1: own personal happiness guru Gretchen Ruben. Gretchen is the host

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Speaker 1: of the popular weekly podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, and

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Speaker 1: she's the author of several books, including the international bestseller

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Speaker 1: The Happiness Project. I'm Doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an organizational

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Speaker 1: psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and

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Speaker 1: this is how I work a show about how to

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Speaker 1: help you do your best work.

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Speaker 2: I've been a.

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Speaker 1: Fan of Gretchen's for over a decade, and the first

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Speaker 1: thing I wanted to know was what does someone who

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Speaker 1: was dedicated over ten years of their life to thinking

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Speaker 1: about and researching happiness do in their own life to

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Speaker 1: be happier. What are the habits in Gretchen's life that

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Speaker 1: contribute most to her happiness.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I love a great habit, So I

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Speaker 3: have a lot I've contributed to my happiness. I would

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Speaker 3: say getting to sleep on time and waking up at

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Speaker 3: the same time every day. I'm a real morning person,

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Speaker 3: so I do my hardest work early in the morning,

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Speaker 3: and I like it when it's kind of quiet, and

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Speaker 3: so I always get up at the same time every day.

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Speaker 3: One of these people who's a super low carb person,

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Speaker 3: I have a crazy sweet tooth. And the way that

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Speaker 3: I dealt with that was just by quitting sugar and

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Speaker 3: basically all carbs. So that's not a habit that everybody

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Speaker 3: would want to follow, but that's a habit I love.

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Speaker 3: I write every day. That's just to always stay in

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Speaker 3: my work. That's a habit. I kiss my husband first thing,

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Speaker 3: before I get out of bed in the morning, before

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Speaker 3: I check my phone, or before my feet hit the ground.

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Speaker 3: That makes me happy. I have a lot of habits

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Speaker 3: that make me happy.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask about your writing habit and also

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Speaker 1: your reading habit. Let's start with your writing habit. What

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Speaker 1: does that look like? Can you set the scene is

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Speaker 1: to you know, if we were watching you do that,

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Speaker 1: what would we observe in terms of how you formed

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Speaker 1: that habit?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I write books, and so the rhythm

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Speaker 3: of my day really depends on where I am in

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Speaker 3: a book cycle. So right now I'm doing editing. Means

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Speaker 3: most of it's already written, but I'm doing editing, which

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Speaker 3: tends to be like you're working on the things that

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Speaker 3: aren't working. It tends to be a little bit hard,

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Speaker 3: but you have stuff to work with. So it's like,

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Speaker 3: say from six in the morning until like nine or ten.

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Speaker 3: Then I'm really focused on editing things that are really hard,

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Speaker 3: and then after that I start doing things more like

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Speaker 3: doing interviews or working on a podcast episode, or like

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Speaker 3: things that are intellectually challenging but don't take the same

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Speaker 3: level of concentration and sort of as my day goes on,

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Speaker 3: if I can, if I have control, I will kind

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Speaker 3: of do increasingly less taxing tasks. But I write every

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Speaker 3: day and I read every day. For me, reading it's

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Speaker 3: like my it's kind of my cubicle and my playground.

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Speaker 3: I love to read. I read for fun all the time.

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Speaker 3: But then I also read a ton to give myself

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Speaker 3: ideas and you know, and for research. So both of

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Speaker 3: those things are are part of reading for me.

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Speaker 1: And do you have a specific method when you're reading

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Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, making notes or references? What

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Speaker 1: does that look like?

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Speaker 3: Well that is a great question because actually I spend

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Speaker 3: a huge amount of time with notes. And so when

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Speaker 3: I read, I'll mark up a book, you know, in

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Speaker 3: the if it's a library book, I do it, you know,

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Speaker 3: with like sticky notes, and if it's my book, I'll

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Speaker 3: just massively mark it up. And then once I'm done

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Speaker 3: with the book, I'll go back and then sort of

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Speaker 3: go through and take all the notes and so like

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Speaker 3: I have list of quotations, I do one Sudden's aphorisms.

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Speaker 3: I have multiple documents on multiple subjects that I might

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Speaker 3: be tracking. So doing notes is really fun but it

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Speaker 3: actually does take a lot of time, and so that

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Speaker 3: is part of my kind of my reading regimens. So

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Speaker 3: I have to sort of work that in as well.

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Speaker 3: But like that's something I would do later in the

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Speaker 3: day because it's taxing, but it's not that taxing. I

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Speaker 3: sort of have to figure out where it plugs into

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Speaker 3: all my stuff. But I, you know, it's basically copying

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Speaker 3: or digesting something from it's from a source.

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Speaker 1: And what about at the end of the day, do

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Speaker 1: you have habits or rituals to disconnect from work or

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Speaker 1: reconnect with family or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: I guess what am I habits are sort of quitting time.

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Speaker 3: So I will sort of say, like, oh, in ten minutes,

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Speaker 3: it's quitting time, and I'll take ten minutes and I

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Speaker 3: tidy up my office. So you know, if I got

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Speaker 3: out papers, I'll put them back in a file or

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Speaker 3: I'll put it back on my courtboard, and I'll throw

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Speaker 3: away my trash and I'll put the I get pens out.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why this happens to me, but like

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Speaker 3: I get pens out of my pen cup, like fifty

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Speaker 3: pens that I put the pens back at the pen cup,

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Speaker 3: and I like this because you know, for most people,

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Speaker 3: like for me, outer order contributes to intercolm and I

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Speaker 3: find that when I just take ten minutes to clean up,

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Speaker 3: it sort of clears my mind and it does act

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Speaker 3: as that kind of transition. And then when I come

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Speaker 3: back in in the morning, it feels like it's so

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Speaker 3: much easier to sit down because I'm not finding my

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Speaker 3: way through a bunch of like piles of books that

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Speaker 3: I took the notes on, or you know, articles to read,

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Speaker 3: or you know, just the stuff that accumulates sweat, sweater

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Speaker 3: that I took off. You know, I get put all

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Speaker 3: that stuff away. So I do like a ten minute

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Speaker 3: closer every night and then and then I feel like, okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm ready to call it a day.

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Speaker 1: How did you form that habit? Because I feel like

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Speaker 1: there'd be a lot of people listening, going, oh, like

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Speaker 1: that sounds wonderful. But for some reason, I just leave

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Speaker 1: my desk a mess at the end of the day

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Speaker 1: because that's the easiest thing to do.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, So I have my four tendencies framework,

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Speaker 3: and one of the things about me that I've learned

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Speaker 3: is I'm in upholder in that framework, and habits tend

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Speaker 3: to come pretty easily to upholders, like that's one of

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Speaker 3: the that's one of the nice things about being in

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Speaker 3: a folder. There's downside, so that is one of the upsides.

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Speaker 3: So that kind of thing. Once I was sort of like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I want to make this a habit. It wasn't that

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Speaker 3: hard for me. And I will say that it's not

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Speaker 3: a particularly difficult habit. It's just ten minutes, and it's

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Speaker 3: not cleaning. It's not like going through your files and

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Speaker 3: deciding like what to keep. It's literally just putting things away.

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Speaker 3: I find that very kind of soothing. It's like something

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Speaker 3: that you can put on your to do list and

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Speaker 3: cross it off right away.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually curious, what are some habits that you've tried

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Speaker 1: over the years that didn't really work for you?

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Speaker 3: Okay, meditation, which I've tried twice, and of course people

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Speaker 3: will tell you that like the fact that you that

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Speaker 3: meditation doesn't work for you just means that you need

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Speaker 3: meditation all the more. But I just have to say

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Speaker 3: I've given it two solid tries. I know, I know

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Speaker 3: and respect so many people who I'm friends with, Dan Harris,

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Speaker 3: who is the ten percent Happier app and book, and

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Speaker 3: he really convinced me. My college roommate meditates for like

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Speaker 3: two or three hours a day and like more if

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Speaker 3: she can squeeze it in. So I have people in

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Speaker 3: my life really making a case for meditation, so I

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Speaker 3: have really tried it. It's just not a tool that

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Speaker 3: works for me. So I've tried meditation, gratitude journal. I

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Speaker 3: was very annoyed by my gratitude journal, which apparently is

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Speaker 3: not that uncommon. So that didn't work for me. What else?

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Speaker 3: I used to balance on one foot in the elevator

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Speaker 3: as a way to work on my post my balance,

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Speaker 3: which I just kind of forgot about and got out

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Speaker 3: of the habit of it. And but I do, I

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Speaker 3: do think I should try to have some balance exercise

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Speaker 3: for some reason, I didn't like the elevator one, but

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Speaker 3: maybe some other. I always try to put my socks on,

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Speaker 3: like you know, one fit at a time as a

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Speaker 3: balanced thing. What are some other ones that didn't work

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Speaker 3: for me? Usually I try ones that I think will work,

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Speaker 3: so I have a pretty good hit rate, you know,

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Speaker 3: because I don't try the things that don't that I

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Speaker 3: don't think will work well.

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Speaker 1: I'm very curious about meditation and gratitude because I feel

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Speaker 1: like the two of the most commonly talked about strategies

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Speaker 1: for happiness and well being.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, well, let me say I'm not saying gratitude.

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Speaker 3: I'm not. I have other ways that I try to

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Speaker 3: remind myself to be grateful, because I do think that's

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Speaker 3: really important. But the like write down three things you're

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Speaker 3: grateful for, like the gratitude journal, that form didn't work.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not saying gratitude isn't important. I'm just saying

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Speaker 3: the gratitude journal as.

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Speaker 1: A tool absolutely with gratitude. What's your current ritual habit

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Speaker 1: around gratitude?

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Speaker 3: So I live in an apartment building where we have

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Speaker 3: like two doors that you have to go through to

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Speaker 3: get in and out of the building. So I always

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Speaker 3: try to use that as like a like as a

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Speaker 3: transition point to be like, oh, how happy I am

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Speaker 3: to be going out into New York City, my favorite city,

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Speaker 3: Or then when I'm home, Oh, how happy I am

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Speaker 3: to be coming home to my like cozy apartment. So

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Speaker 3: I try to use sort of the forced pause of

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Speaker 3: going through those two doors as a way to remind

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Speaker 3: myself to be grateful right now for this year. For

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Speaker 3: my next book, which is about the five senses. I've

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Speaker 3: been going to the Metropolitan Museum every day, which is

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Speaker 3: like so much fun when it's open if person was

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Speaker 3: closed for a long time. But every time I go

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Speaker 3: there also because you know, they take your temperature and

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Speaker 3: then you have to like get your ticket and all that,

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Speaker 3: I'm always like, oh, you know, how fortunate I am.

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Speaker 3: I never, never, never want to forget how fortunate I

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Speaker 3: am that I can go to the met every day

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Speaker 3: and so and like everything that the metal offers, everything

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Speaker 3: that it stands for. So I think I kind of

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Speaker 3: use physical transitions as and then people often do it

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Speaker 3: before meals. That's the thing a lot of people do.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's great to have something that you use.

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Speaker 3: Or another thing that I've heard people do, which I

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Speaker 3: think is great is like use it as your password

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Speaker 3: or your like screen saver or liker your lock screen

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Speaker 3: photo so that you're reminded of it. I think those

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Speaker 3: are all great things to do. I just personally did

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Speaker 3: not like the right I don't and I don't like

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Speaker 3: the like do it at the dinner table. That's not

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Speaker 3: my family. I mean, my family's not going to cooperate

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Speaker 3: with the like, let's all talk about three things we're

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Speaker 3: grateful for. There, you know, that's not the family I

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Speaker 3: got great, They're not going to do that with me.

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Speaker 3: So I just wanted to be clear about gratitude. I'm

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Speaker 3: sure gratitude, just not so enthusiastic about the journal.

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Speaker 2: Not the journal. I love the password idea.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I've heard that before, and that's inspiring

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Speaker 1: me actually to change some of my passwords, which it's

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Speaker 1: just such.

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Speaker 3: A dreary thing.

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Speaker 1: Your passwords, Yes, yeah, you have to enter them several

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Speaker 1: times a day, I'm mac I do. Now with meditation,

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Speaker 1: how do you know when to give up on a

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Speaker 1: habit like you did with meditation?

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Speaker 3: That is the million dollar question. I think that is

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Speaker 3: really that is such a hard question because there are

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Speaker 3: cases where you're like, if I would stick with it,

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Speaker 3: maybe I would really have a breakthrough, you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: I really would pass into a place where it would

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Speaker 3: become easier, or I would I could feel this enthusiasm

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Speaker 3: and you really want to give it a try, and

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Speaker 3: I think so. I think I wish that I could

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Speaker 3: develop kind of like a test for that, because it really,

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Speaker 3: it really did. It was really very hard for me

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Speaker 3: as well. And actually I form habits pretty easily, and

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Speaker 3: so stopping meditation was just as hard for me as

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Speaker 3: starting Like I really had to kind of say, Okay, Gretchen,

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Speaker 3: this is not working for you. We're going to take

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Speaker 3: this off the daily to do list. It took a

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Speaker 3: fair amount of effort. I just think it was like

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Speaker 3: I just I wasn't like whatever was supposed to be happening,

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Speaker 3: I was not experiencing it. I wasn't experiencing any sense

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Speaker 3: of progress or any sense of change.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't like I could imagine that I would get

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Speaker 3: to a level where it just felt. It just was

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Speaker 3: like this just is a tool that doesn't fit my hand,

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Speaker 3: but I think it can't. I think sometimes things do

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Speaker 3: get easier. Like I mentioned quitting sugar. I think that's

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Speaker 3: something where once you've stopped for a while, it gets

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Speaker 3: much much easier because you lose that craving for sugar,

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Speaker 3: and you could just kind of you lose your taste

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Speaker 3: for it a bit. So that's the kind of thing

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Speaker 3: where it might be really hard and then get easier.

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Speaker 3: But it's sort of like there's no there's no sign

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Speaker 3: that you'll think you know, nothing comes in the mail

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Speaker 3: to tell you Okay, time to give up or whatever. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's frustrating if.

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Speaker 2: Only it did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah it's funny with with sugar. I quit

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Speaker 1: sugar about seven years ago and me too. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 2: It does.

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Speaker 1: It gets a lot easier, and then it just kind

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Speaker 1: of it becomes the default. I remember us out for

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Speaker 1: Dino with my work team last not and does it came,

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Speaker 1: And it's just kind of like I just have no

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Speaker 1: desire for it.

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Speaker 3: So people don't get that, Like I think it's really

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Speaker 3: hard to understand. It's like to me, I'm like, it's

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Speaker 3: like uncooked rice. It's not that it's not food. It's

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Speaker 3: not that it's gross or anything. It's just it's not

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Speaker 3: the kind of thing I eat. It just doesn't the

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Speaker 3: bells don't ring in your head anymore. But you know,

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Speaker 3: like one of the things that I that I've really

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Speaker 3: found which is true for me, it sounds like it's

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Speaker 3: true for you. It's like there's abstainers and moderators when

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Speaker 3: it comes to strong temptation, and for people who like

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Speaker 3: to give things up altogether, like we're abstainers. It's like

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Speaker 3: it's it's kind of all or nothing. Like for me

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Speaker 3: with sugar. It's like, if I have one cookie, I

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Speaker 3: want ten cookies and it's very hard for me to stop.

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Speaker 3: But if I have no cookies, then I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that's not hard for me. And but like with the wine,

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Speaker 3: I'm not that tempted by one. So I could have

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Speaker 3: half a glass of wine. But then I have a

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Speaker 3: friend who's like, I can have one cookie, but for me,

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Speaker 3: it's no wine or four glasses of wine. I can't

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Speaker 3: have half a glass of wine. But then moderators are

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Speaker 3: people who do better when they have something a little

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Speaker 3: bit or sometimes. And these are the people who are like,

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Speaker 3: I just keep a bar a fine chocolate in my

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Speaker 3: desk drawer, and every day I have one square every

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Speaker 3: other day. That's just enough, Like you should do that.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, all my whole day would be like one square,

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Speaker 3: two square, two square. It's my birthday, it's rating I deserve.

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Speaker 3: I just like eat the whole thing just to get

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Speaker 3: it over with. So I think it is different. So

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Speaker 3: from stainers, I think they're often surprised and relieved to

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Speaker 3: realize what a relief it is to just say like

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Speaker 3: I'm just gonna take this off the table. But then

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Speaker 3: moderators really get kind of panicky and rebellious, and they

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Speaker 3: do better when they're like, you know, you're just gonna

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Speaker 3: have a few French fries, you know, just just gonna

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Speaker 3: have a half a brownie, and that's how they do better.

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Speaker 3: So again, it's like not everybody. There's no magic one size,

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Speaker 3: so it's all solution. A lot of it is just

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Speaker 3: experimenting and figuring out what works for us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a good distinction.

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Speaker 1: Is that it obviousactly like you with chocolate and wine, Chocolate

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Speaker 1: could not have it here wine do not care.

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Speaker 3: But also Joe, people say things like, you know, what's

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Speaker 3: life without a brownie? Like and I'm like, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: not eating brownies makes me so much happier than brownie's ever.

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Speaker 3: Did like have a brownie if you want one, but

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Speaker 3: I'd rather not.

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Speaker 1: Definitely, Yes, And I'd rather not have the sugar crash.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well and then you're just free of that like

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Speaker 3: that that like crazy decision. I just I find that

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Speaker 3: very boring. Yeah that is now later, well does this

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Speaker 3: count one? Two? I was likeugh, just tiresome.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about decisions.

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Speaker 1: I want to know what's your process when you have

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Speaker 1: to make a big decision.

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Speaker 2: What does that look like for you?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm a big pros and cons person, so I

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Speaker 3: will make that list. But I have found a super

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Speaker 3: useful test when I have a big decision where the

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Speaker 3: pros and cons feel very balanced, and sometimes it's sort

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Speaker 3: of like an apple and an orange. So no, a

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Speaker 3: pros and console, this doesn't even really help you. So,

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Speaker 3: like we were trying to decide, it's a family whether

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Speaker 3: to get a dog, like five or six years ago,

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Speaker 3: and it's sort of like there's all these pros, there's

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Speaker 3: all these cons, but in the end, it's just like

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Speaker 3: do you want to have a dog or do you

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Speaker 3: not want to have a dog? And I couldn't figure

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Speaker 3: out how to decide, and then I realized, So my

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Speaker 3: test is choose the bigger life. And I think for

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Speaker 3: some people a bigger life would be a life without

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Speaker 3: a dog, because they're like I could travel more freely,

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Speaker 3: I'd have more disposable income, I can always get a

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Speaker 3: dog later, that's the bigger life. But I knew that

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Speaker 3: for my family, the bigger life was to get the dog,

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Speaker 3: and so we got our dog. We'd love our dog.

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Speaker 3: Barnaby was exactly the right decision. And I've talked to

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Speaker 3: people like I talked to someone where he and his

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Speaker 3: wife were trying to decide whether they should move to

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Speaker 3: be closer to family. So it's like, now we're in

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Speaker 3: the big city, it's so exciting, but life is harder.

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Speaker 3: We could move back home, and like that's a smaller city,

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Speaker 3: so maybe we don't have the same opportunities, but we're

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Speaker 3: closer to family and friends, and we're thinking about having

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Speaker 3: a family, you know, And it's like pros and cons

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Speaker 3: and you go back and forth. And I said, Okay,

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Speaker 3: what's the bigger life. Choose the bigger life. He was

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Speaker 3: instantly He's like, the bigger life for us is to

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Speaker 3: move back. That's just a bigger life for us. It's

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Speaker 3: more opportunity, more friends, more family, like and he just

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Speaker 3: knew it right away. And then and then he was

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Speaker 3: sort of like, Okay, that's kind of like all I

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Speaker 3: need to know, because only you know what the bigger

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Speaker 3: life is for you. But it's it's clarifying. I think

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Speaker 3: I found it very clarifying.

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Speaker 1: What is about the questions that you usually ask yourself

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Speaker 1: when you're making decisions about how to spend your time

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Speaker 1: or energy your money.

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Speaker 3: Well, I always do say is this going to make

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Speaker 3: me happier? And that's how I made my decisions. So

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Speaker 3: with that, like anything that goes to relationships, anything that

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Speaker 3: deep into relationships or broadens relationships is likely to pay

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Speaker 3: off in terms of happiness. Anything that helps me learn

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Speaker 3: or grow that you know, the atmosphere of growth is

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Speaker 3: so important for happiness. So anything like that is something

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Speaker 3: that I would be inclined to do, something where I

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Speaker 3: feel like, maybe it's the fantasy self. It's like my

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Speaker 3: idea of the kind of person I'd like to be.

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Speaker 3: I watch out for that. That's a big warning sign

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Speaker 3: for me. My big personal commandment is to be Gretchen.

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Speaker 3: And then sometimes I'm like, that just feels like me

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Speaker 3: kind of wanting to do something that would be a

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Speaker 3: good idea if I were a different kind of person,

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Speaker 3: Like by linen cocktail napkins because they're on sale. What

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Speaker 3: am I thinking? There is no that is not Gretchen

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Speaker 3: Linen cocktail napkins. That would not be That would not

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Speaker 3: That's not something to spend my time, money or energy on.

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Speaker 1: I love your twelve personal commandments. I got to say,

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Speaker 1: can you can you talk about some of the other

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Speaker 1: ones that I guess that you apply in your life.

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Speaker 3: My stuff in well, one of them comes from my father.

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Speaker 3: That's enjoy the process. And this is really helpful because

401
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Speaker 3: you know sometimes in life, and this goes back to

402
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Speaker 3: decision making that you were talking about. You know, sometimes

403
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Speaker 3: we can decide to do something that we really do

404
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Speaker 3: not want to do at the time, maybe for years,

405
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Speaker 3: but then we think, oh, there's going to be this

406
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Speaker 3: big payoff. So I've got to like put up with

407
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Speaker 3: all this badness in the in the in the process,

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Speaker 3: because there'll be this payoff. So I don't like being

409
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Speaker 3: a lot lawyer, and I don't like being an associate

410
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Speaker 3: in law firm, but in seven years i'll be a

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Speaker 3: partner in that'll be great. Or I don't enjoy writing

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Speaker 3: this book, but one day it'll be a bestseller and

413
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Speaker 3: then it'll all be worth it. The problem with you

414
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Speaker 3: when you don't enjoy the process is that a lot

415
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Speaker 3: of times things don't work out the way we wish

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Speaker 3: they did. We're not in control of outcomes. We can

417
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Speaker 3: we can focus on process, but we can't. We can't

418
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Speaker 3: control the outcome. And if you enjoy the process, then

419
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Speaker 3: the disappointment if things don't go your way is less.

420
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Speaker 3: So I write a book called forty Ways look at JFK.

421
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Speaker 3: I loved writing that book, and it flopped. It flopped

422
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Speaker 3: so hard. It didn't reach an audience, didn't reach its audience.

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Speaker 3: That's what they tell you when your books it fails.

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Speaker 3: But I loved writing that book, and you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: sad that it didn't find its audience. But I don't

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Speaker 3: regret it because I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the process

427
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Speaker 3: so much. But if somebody had said, oh, you should

428
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Speaker 3: write a book about X y Z and I had

429
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Speaker 3: had no interest in it, and I had just forced

430
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Speaker 3: myself to do it, thinking like, well, there would be

431
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,199
Speaker 3: a big payoff in the end. So if you can

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Speaker 3: enjoy the process, then I always just remind myself and

433
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Speaker 3: also just remind myself like I enjoy the process, like, Okay,

434
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 3: maybe today I don't feel like writing this part, but

435
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,960
Speaker 3: I love writing. Like as my sister's a TV writer.

436
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 3: She has a big sign in her office that says

437
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 3: it's a fun job, and I enjoy it. To remind

438
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 3: herself that she picked TV writing, this is what she wants.

439
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 3: And then I think one of the most thought provoking happiness.

440
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 3: Project resolutions for me has been to imitate a spiritual master.

441
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 3: One of my spiritual masters is Saint Trez of Leziu,

442
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,679
Speaker 3: which I'm not even Catholic, but I am like obsessed

443
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 3: with her book Story of a Soul, and in there,

444
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,439
Speaker 3: Saint Terrez says that when one loves, one does not calculate,

445
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 3: and so one of my personal resolutions is no calculation,

446
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 3: because I can be a bean counter like, well, if

447
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,639
Speaker 3: I did this for you, husband, then you should do

448
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 3: this for me. And you took a nap yesterday, so

449
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 3: it's my turn today, you know, and that's just not good.

450
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 3: You should just give and not calculate. So no calculation

451
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 3: comes from Saint Teres.

452
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: Okay, it's nearly time for an ad break, but can

453
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: I ask a favor? If you are enjoying how I work,

454
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: I would love it if you could hit pause and

455
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: leave a quick review for the podcast. I love getting

456
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 1: feedback from listeners, and everyone has.

457
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 2: Left reviews or star ratings.

458
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you, you guys rock It's

459
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: just awesome getting feedback, So thank you and thank you

460
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 1: if you plan to do that today. After the break,

461
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,360
Speaker 1: Gretchen will be back talking about how you can make

462
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: your own commandments, Gretchen's method for handling criticism, and why

463
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 1: she picks a word of the year, and what her

464
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: word is for this year and how she's using that.

465
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: What advice would you give to people who are listening

466
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 1: to these personal commandments and thinking, oh, I wouldn't mind

467
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: creating my own.

468
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 2: List, Like what was your process?

469
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 3: Oh, I so highly recommend this exercise. Yes, so I

470
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 3: have twelve, but you know, that's just kind of the

471
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 3: number that I came up with. Often people have fewer

472
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 3: or more. This is a very very creative, really compelling

473
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 3: exercise to help you know yourself. So this isn't sort

474
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 3: of your to do list, you know, get my haircut regularly,

475
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 3: and it's not on the On the Happier podcast, we

476
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 3: talk about like your twenty one for twenty one list,

477
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 3: which is like, what are twenty one things you want

478
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 3: to get done in twenty twenty one that's super fun,

479
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 3: Like on mine, it was like watch mad Men finally,

480
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 3: or you know, or things like deal with my email archive,

481
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 3: which was like a mess that was like haunting me.

482
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 3: Those are more like things that would be done or

483
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 3: things you want to start. Personal commandments is more about

484
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 3: like what are your deepest principles and what are the

485
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,479
Speaker 3: principles that you want to guide your whole life, So

486
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 3: like enjoy the process or choose joy, I mean, or

487
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 3: is something where it really is kind of a transcendent

488
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 3: principle that you want to live by. And it took

489
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 3: a long time. I worked on mine for months because

490
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 3: I would add to it and then I would decide

491
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 3: that two things were really the same thing, just in

492
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: different words, so then I had to pick one, and

493
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 3: then some sort of didn't rise to the level of

494
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,479
Speaker 3: being a personal commandment. But I think it's really a

495
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 3: creative way to do self reflection and to think about

496
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 3: your aims for yourself.

497
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: I wanted I around sort of handling criticism when you know,

498
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 1: as someone who wants to achieve and maintain happiness, So

499
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: what's your approach to dealing with criticism and negative feedback.

500
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 3: Well, one thing is if I wouldn't listen to their advice,

501
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 3: I won't listen to their criticism. So I try to

502
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 3: not expose myself to like drive by criticism. So like

503
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 3: I don't read any reviews of my books and I

504
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 3: don't read any profiles of me. I try to read

505
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 3: about nothing because it just gets in my head and

506
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 3: often I will overreact to it, you know, like one

507
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 3: person says one thing. I had this with my audiobook,

508
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 3: Like I for my book Happier at Home, Like someone

509
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 3: had said like, oh, why is Gretchen reading her book?

510
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 3: She's a professional actor, which is true, right, And so

511
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 3: I thought, oh, that's what they said that for Happiness

512
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 3: the Happiness Project. So when it came time to record

513
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 3: Happier at Home, I thought, oh, well, I really want

514
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 3: to do the better thing for listeners, and so I'll have,

515
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 3: you know, have an actor do it. I won't do

516
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 3: it myself, even though I enjoy doing it. And then

517
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 3: all these other people were like, oh, it was so

518
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 3: much better when Gretchen retted herself, and I was like,

519
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 3: why did I listen to one person that that just

520
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 3: happened across my consciousness, you know. And so I try

521
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 3: not to open myself up because I feel like that's distorting.

522
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 3: I have so many people who give me criticism, people

523
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 3: that I respect and admire, and I'm like, let me

524
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 3: stay open to their criticism. That's not easy either, but

525
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: so so I don't like expose myself to that. I

526
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 3: do read emails from everyone, and like with the Happier podcast,

527
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 3: we get a tremendous amount of email, and I get

528
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 3: a lot of reader email too, and of course on

529
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 3: social media, so I definitely hear from people and with criticism.

530
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 3: One thing I remind myself is is that a strong

531
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: voice repels as well as attracts, and that's true of

532
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 3: anyone that you can think of. Nothing is universally liked.

533
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 3: And if I try to make myself so vanilla that

534
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 3: everyone will like me, then no one will be interested.

535
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,719
Speaker 3: So I just have to accept that like I am

536
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 3: who I am, you might find it interesting, you may not,

537
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 3: And that's just the way things go. I can't please everyone,

538
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 3: but I do try to stay open to it. And

539
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 3: like when I'm going to get a big edit, as

540
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 3: I said, I'm in that process right now. Like I

541
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 3: will literally like have a mental imagery thing that I

542
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: do where I like like imagine myself opening my heart,

543
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 3: opening my chest to be like I'm open. My word

544
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 3: of the year, I pick a word for the year

545
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 3: every year. My word for this year is open. I

546
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 3: want to stay open to hearing what people say. Often

547
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 3: I have to think about it. I will warn people

548
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 3: who are working with me, like I always say no,

549
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: I'm always really defensive. I always say I can't do it,

550
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 3: and then give me time, like at least twenty minutes,

551
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 3: and then I'll be like, I see your point. I

552
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 3: see how I can do it. That's a good point. Okay,

553
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 3: Now I can't wait to do it because you're on

554
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: a resent right and I can't wait to max sit.

555
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: You know.

556
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 3: I just have to let myself go through that process.

557
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 3: So part of it kind of knowing how I'll respond,

558
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 3: and then I will kind of go into shock kind of.

559
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 3: I often will. If I get an edit, I'll look

560
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 3: at it and then I won't expect myself to do anything.

561
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 3: I'll just like go to bed early and start it

562
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: because I am such a morning person the next day.

563
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: Because I think it is hard to get criticisms. So

564
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 3: I always want to be at my best when i'm

565
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 3: when I'm starting to work through it, like had a

566
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: good night's sleep, kind of ready for it, not just

567
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 3: kind of drive by.

568
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: I love that image of like opening your heart, and

569
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: you said that open is your word for this year.

570
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: What's your process for deciding on your word for the year.

571
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 3: Oh, it's so fun. Yeah, I've had a word one

572
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 3: word theme for years now, and I highly recommend it again.

573
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 3: It's sort of you know, people get so tired of

574
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: making New Year's resolutions, and yet it's very valuable to

575
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 3: set an aim for yourself and to reflect. I think

576
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 3: around the new year, this is a way to kind

577
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 3: of think, like, well, what's the big idea? So for me,

578
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 3: I was going to be doing a lot of new

579
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 3: things this year, so I really did want to stay

580
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 3: open and remind myself, like, think about there are other

581
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 3: ways to do things, and they're you know, just stay

582
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 3: open in the past, Like I have a lot of

583
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 3: material and so one year. One year my theme was

584
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 3: repurpose because I wanted to figure out how to make

585
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 3: new things out of stuff that I'd already created. One year,

586
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 3: my word was lighter because I wanted to kind of

587
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 3: it was lighten up. My sister had lighter. One year

588
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 3: I had lighten up. So I wanted to lighten up

589
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 3: kind of my mood. I wanted to have kind of

590
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 3: a more lighthearted outlook and a more light hearted demeanor.

591
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 3: I can be kind of serious and kind of charging ahead,

592
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: you know. I wanted to lighten up. And then I

593
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: also wanted to get rid of a lot of stuff.

594
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 3: I wrote this book Outer Order inter Calm because I

595
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 3: do feel like outer order contributes to interclm for me.

596
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 3: And I thought, let me just get rid of a

597
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 3: lot of stuff that I don't need. User love. If

598
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 3: I lighten up my my space, I thought I would

599
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 3: feel I thought it would help me lighten up mentally,

600
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 3: which it did. Oh my gosh. I love. I love

601
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 3: I have an empty shelf. I love my empty shelf.

602
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: I love figuring out ways to create more order and

603
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: more space.

604
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: On the topic of having out of order, and I

605
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: loved your book out of Order in a com I

606
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: think I read it like a week after it came out.

607
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: I was very excited to just vow that one. Oh

608
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 3: thank you. It was such a fun like it's like

609
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 3: a hype book. It's like to get you pumped up

610
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: to clear clutter. Right. It's like it's not even it's

611
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 3: not like a narrative. It's just a bunch of ideas.

612
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: It was great.

613
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: I want to know, what are your favorite ideas that

614
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: you wrote about in that book.

615
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: Ooh so many. Well, one is the one minute rule.

616
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 3: This is that anything you can do in less than

617
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: a minute, do without delay. So if you can hang

618
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 3: up your coat instead of throwing on a chair, or

619
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: even better, if you can put up hooks so you

620
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: can put your coat on a hook instead of on

621
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: a hand, that's even better. Or like if you can

622
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 3: put a document in the folder instead of just leaving

623
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: it out on the desk, or you know, put a

624
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 3: wrapper into the trash. I'll just do that with that delay.

625
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 3: That gets rid of sort of the scum of clutter

626
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 3: on the surface of life.

627
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: Now, I imagine that you're someone that gets a lot

628
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: of requests for your time and that you would have

629
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: to say no very frequently in your life. What is

630
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: your strategy for saying no?

631
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: Like, how do you say no?

632
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 3: Well, get back to the four tendencies. This is something

633
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 3: a poulders are good at too, which is why they

634
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: can sometimes seem cold, because they find it pretty easy

635
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: to say no when they want to. But I can

636
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: sometimes say, like, I'll just say yes too easily because

637
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 3: I know I can do it, so I'll just say okay,

638
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: yes whatever. Actually I'm married to a questioner and so

639
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 3: it helps me that he's like, why would you do that?

640
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: So sometimes I'll ask my husband Jamie, if I should

641
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 3: do something, or I'll think, well, what would Jamie say.

642
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 3: I don't even need to ask him. I just need

643
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 3: to visualize him his face being like quizzically, why would

644
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: you do that? So that helps me. And then often,

645
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 3: you know, I just you know, I am like, I've

646
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: got a big writing deadline that I have to meet,

647
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: and I think people are pretty sympathetic to that. People

648
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: get it, and so I just say, you know, I've

649
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: got a big writing deadline, so I have to I'm

650
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: saying no to a lot of things. Unfortunately I can't

651
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 3: do it.

652
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: Where do you go for inspiration and new ideas, you know,

653
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: particularly when you're thinking about what is the next book

654
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: that you're going to write?

655
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: My next book idea always has come to me magically,

656
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,719
Speaker 3: so that's wonderful. It just comes out of whatever I've

657
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 3: been naturally thinking about. So I feel super lucky about that.

658
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: But my inspiration comes from two things. For shirt, reading,

659
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: which again like I read all the time because that's

660
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 3: where I get ideas, or talking to other people, just

661
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 3: talking to the people around me, and I guess reading.

662
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: I read a ton of memoirs and biography, so that's

663
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: kind of like talking to people as well. Or reading novels,

664
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 3: but just talking to people. Like some of my biggest

665
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: insights have come from the most casual conversations. Like a

666
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: friend of mine once said to me, She's like, you know,

667
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 3: the bunny thing about me is I'm happier when I exercise.

668
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 3: And you know, when I was in high school, I

669
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: was on the track team and I never missed track practice.

670
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 3: So why can't I go running on my own at now?

671
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: And I thought, well, that's a great question. It's the

672
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: same person, it's the same behavior. One time it was

673
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 3: no problem for you. Now you can't do it. What's

674
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 3: going on? And I came up with like a big

675
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 3: long list of things, And in the end that's what

676
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 3: led me to understand my full tendencies framework. Or there

677
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 3: were people where they would say to me, you know,

678
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 3: because I write about kind of happiness and habits, I'm

679
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 3: very interested in how people feel about New Year's resolutions.

680
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 3: I talk to people about New Year's resolutions a lot,

681
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 3: not so much for what they do, but how they

682
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 3: think about it. And there's a kind of person that

683
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: I ran into over and over where if I asked

684
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 3: about New Year's resolutions, they would say, oh, I don't

685
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: do New Year's resolutions. I'll make a resolution anytime it

686
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 3: makes sense for me, but I wouldn't do it on

687
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: January first, because January first is an arbitrary And I thought, well,

688
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 3: that's interesting, because the arbitrariness of January first never really

689
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 3: bothered me, but clearly for like some group of people,

690
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 3: it was very significant. And so I was like, what

691
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: do I make of that pattern? And again that led

692
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: me to my four tendency. So a lot of times

693
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 3: it's just these casual things that people say that send

694
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 3: me off in some direction that ends up being very

695
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 3: I mean, it comes from reading too, Like I was

696
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: reading one of my spiritual masters is Samuel Johnson, and

697
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 3: there's a line it's not even in the life of

698
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 3: Samuel Johnson. It's like it's like a comment of his

699
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: that was written down where somebody offered him wine. This

700
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 3: is doctor Johnson, and he said they asked Hm if

701
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: he would take a little wine, and he said, I

702
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 3: can't take a little child. Abstinence is as easy to

703
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: me as temperance would be difficult. And when I read that,

704
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 3: that's when I realized, like you, I'm an abstainer like Johnson,

705
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 3: Abstinence is easy. Temperance is hard. I can have none,

706
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 3: but I can't have a little bit. And it was

707
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 3: reading that line from Johnson that all of a sudden

708
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 3: made me realize this thing about myself. And I thought

709
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 3: I was the only one who is like this, because

710
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 3: you know, everybody tells you, oh, moderation is pleasant to

711
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 3: the wise, and you should follow the eighty twenty rule.

712
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 3: All that, I thought I was the only one. Then

713
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: I started asking around. It turns out huge number of

714
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 3: people are like this. So I get my insights really

715
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 3: from reading or from other people.

716
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: Do you have a process for I guess, processing those

717
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: those things that you're hearing, those observations, or is it

718
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: just kind of happening in the background for you.

719
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's interesting because I do have a

720
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: lot of notes. So I have a quotes thing where

721
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 3: I'll write down quotes. I have my book of Aphorisms.

722
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: I have notes on all different subjects. And I also

723
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: have something called notes, which is like notes that don't

724
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 3: go anywhere else, which you would think would be miscellaneous,

725
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 3: which I said not to do, but it's actually different

726
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 3: for miscellaneous. But so I have all that. But what

727
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: I have found is often I will feel like writing

728
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: taking a note. I will feel that something is significant,

729
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 3: but I will not understand its significance. I will be like, why,

730
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 3: I don't understand why I'm even bothering to write this down,

731
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 3: But I, you know, okay, fine, I'll put this down,

732
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 3: and then later, maybe years later, I will understand its significance.

733
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 3: And that is super exciting when I realized that I've

734
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 3: actually been reflecting and researching something for years, even though

735
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: I hadn't really grasped the subject yet, because I think

736
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,439
Speaker 3: a lot of times it takes me a long time

737
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 3: to understand how things fit in. When I was writing

738
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 3: my book about habit change better than before, I would

739
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 3: often write down examples of things that people were doing

740
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: or saying, or that I read about, and I would

741
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 3: be like, I don't understand how this fits into this system,

742
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,479
Speaker 3: Like this seems kind of relevant to have it change,

743
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 3: but I don't really understand how. And it was only

744
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 3: when I got deep, deep, deep, deep into it that

745
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 3: all the pieces started sliding into place. So sometimes I

746
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 3: just sort of have to trust to the future and

747
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 3: assume that at some point I'll understand why something seemed significant,

748
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 3: And I do find myself pondering, Like I'll often be

749
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 3: struck by something and I'll have to really think about,

750
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 3: like why did that seem so meaningful to me? Or

751
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 3: what was the lesson there? Like sometimes it takes some

752
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 3: thinking to figure out what the lesson was.

753
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: Something I think about when I read your work, and

754
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: you know, when I consume other people's work that does

755
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: sort of like yours and really inspire me to be

756
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: better and you know, lead a kind of richer life

757
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: is I think about what can I apply as a parent.

758
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: I've got a seven year old daughter, and I'm constantly thinking,

759
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: how does this apply to her? So I'm wondering what

760
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: do you do personally as a parent, Like what are

761
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: some of the things that you you know, write about

762
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: for adults, but you help I guess or apply or

763
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: teach to your kids.

764
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 3: Well, one thing that has helped me tremendously as a

765
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 3: parent and also as a a just in life with

766
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: other adults is to accept the reality of other people's feelings.

767
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: Because I had a bad habit of saying things like, oh,

768
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 3: you're not hungry, or you're not cold, or you love

769
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 3: you love going to Grandma and Grandpa's house, or you know,

770
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 3: you're not scared of the pool. And that's whether you're

771
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 3: a child or an adult. That is very annoying and counterproductive.

772
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 3: And I realize now it's much better to just acknowledge

773
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 3: the reality of other people's feelings. Like we just ate,

774
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 3: but you still feel hungry, or you usually you love

775
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: going to the swimming pool, but today you're you're just

776
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 3: feeling very apprehensive. You don't feel like going into the

777
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 3: swimming pool. It's like and often when you tell people

778
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 3: that you you acknowledge the reality of how they're feeling,

779
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 3: you feel so much better. It's like my husband, it's like,

780
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 3: you know something, like it sounds like it was really

781
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 3: annoying to be on hold for half an hour. Instead

782
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 3: of being like, well, what's the big deal? Like what

783
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 3: you know, it's not such a big deal to call

784
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: the cable company. It's like that just makes you feel angry.

785
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 3: So that's something that's really that's really helpful. I mean,

786
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: one of the things that I really try to work

787
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 3: on is just remembering that just because something works for

788
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 3: me doesn't mean that it would work for my children.

789
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 3: And like, one way this comes up, it's like I'm

790
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 3: a super desk person. I need a desk. I realized, like,

791
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: I need a desk like every ten feet, Like I

792
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 3: only work at a desk. I want to be at

793
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: a desk. I want a desk everywhere I go. And

794
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 3: it was really hard for me. I was always trying

795
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 3: to get my kids to work at a desk, like

796
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 3: they work on their bed, they work on the floor,

797
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 3: They work in these like positions that look so uncomfortable

798
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 3: to me. And then I went into this was a

799
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 3: long time, this is you know, before the before times.

800
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: I went into a we work or you know, one

801
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 3: of those places, and it had a sitting thing. It

802
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 3: wasn't a chair, and it wasn't a sofa, and it

803
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 3: was like a bed, only kind of in a sofa form.

804
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 3: And I saw somebody sitting on it and that was

805
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 3: the way my daughter worked on her laptop. And I

806
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: was like, this is the way people work, you know,

807
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 3: we work is acknowledging some people like to sit like this.

808
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: This is a way that some people were I would

809
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 3: never work like that. It looks desperately uncomfortable to me,

810
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 3: but some people do. And then I stopped hassling my

811
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 3: daughters to sit at a desk, because why is it

812
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 3: any of my business, if they sit at a desk,

813
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 3: if they get their work done, and they are perfectly

814
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 3: content and productive, they should be able to do their

815
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 3: work in their own way. And so part of it

816
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 3: is just like, just because something works really well for

817
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 3: me doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work for someone else.

818
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: And if they're doing it, if they're doing fine, I shouldn't.

819
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 3: I shouldn't I shouldn't try to persuade them to do

820
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 3: it a different way.

821
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: How about helping children foam good habits?

822
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 3: Well, the most important thing to do is to be

823
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 3: a good example of the there's twenty one strategies of

824
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 3: habit change, and one of the most powerful strategies is

825
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: the strategy of other people. And we pick up habits

826
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: from other people in a flash, good habits and bad habits.

827
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 2: And if you.

828
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: Want your children to read, you read. If you want

829
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 3: your children to go to bed on time, you go

830
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 3: to bed on time. If you want your children to

831
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 3: put put down their phone, you put down your phone.

832
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 3: First of all, it'll make you much more convincing when

833
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 3: you suggest that they do it, and you're just showing

834
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 3: that behavior. And what I have found, you know, one

835
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 3: of the truths, one of this kind of sad truths

836
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 3: about happiness is the only people we can the only

837
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 3: person we can change is ourselves. You know, we can

838
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,479
Speaker 3: only change ourselves. But what I happened is that when

839
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 3: I change a relationship changes, and when I change the

840
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 3: atmosphere of my household changes, and if I do something,

841
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: other people sort of come along. Not always and not perfectly,

842
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 3: but often and more often than you might think. So, say,

843
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 3: when I started getting up, you know, like I get

844
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 3: up at six every day, and what I found is

845
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 3: that when I get up, I sort of start everything moving,

846
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 3: and so I think that makes other people get up.

847
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 3: Maybe they don't get up when I get up, but

848
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 3: they probably get up earlier than they otherwise would. Or

849
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 3: when I started making sure that I gave everybody a

850
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 3: really warm hello and goodbye every time they went in

851
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 3: and out of the apartment, that made other people more

852
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 3: likely to do it too. We all talked about it,

853
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 3: but it was really important that one person was really

854
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: doing it. And then I think when one person starts

855
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 3: doing it, then you sort of get swept up in it.

856
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 3: So settying, like doing it yourself is often very important.

857
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 3: And then also, you know, just deciding what happens if

858
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 3: you ignore this some things, it's like, yeah, you would

859
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: like their bed to be made, But is that the

860
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,959
Speaker 3: argument you feel like having. Is that what you feel

861
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 3: like spending your time and energy on. Maybe not? Maybe

862
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 3: so it might be really really important to you, but

863
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Speaker 3: maybe not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that one.

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Speaker 1: Now, Gretchen Gosh, time is flown by for people that

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Speaker 1: want to consume more of what you are doing.

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Speaker 2: What is the best way for people to do that?

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Speaker 3: Well, if you'd like to listen more, I have a

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Speaker 3: weekly podcast that I do with my sister who's a

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Speaker 3: TV show runner, called Happier with Gretchen Rubin, where we

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00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 3: talk about how to be happier spoiler alert and if

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00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: you go to my website Gretchenreuben dot com, I have

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00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 3: that's a kind of a clearinghouse for everything about my books.

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00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 3: I have a lot of free resources. I have a

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00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 3: ton of you know, material there on habits and good

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00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 3: and human nature and happiness generally. We talked some about

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00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 3: the four tendancies. If people want to know their tendency

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00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 3: and get a little report and find out what that means,

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00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 3: they can go to quiz dot Gretchenreuben dot com or

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00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 3: just look on my website for the quiz. Like more

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00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 3: than three million people have taken that quiz and it's

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00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 3: free and it's quick, and we'll tell you your tendency.

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00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 3: And then I'm on social media everywhere as Gretchen Ruben,

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Speaker 3: and I love to get insights and comments and questions

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00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 3: from people, so I love I love to engage with

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Speaker 3: readers and listeners, So hit me up.

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Speaker 2: Amazing.

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Speaker 1: Ama, Well, Gretchen, I've just loved talking to you. After

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Speaker 1: following your work for over a decade, It's just been

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Speaker 1: such a joy to chat.

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Speaker 2: So thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you. I so enjoyed the comma. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Hello there, That is it for today's show. If you

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Speaker 1: enjoyed today's episode, why not share it with someone else

895
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: that you think would benefit and maybe get some useful

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00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: tips to improve the way that they work. How I

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00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: work is produced by Inventing with production support from the

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Speaker 1: Dead Set Studios. And thank you to Martin Nimba, who

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Speaker 1: does the audio mix for every show and makes everything

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Speaker 1: sound so much better than it would have otherwise.

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Speaker 2: See you next time.