1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Thanks to social media, everyone's a storyteller now, whether you're 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: guiding your work to the right audience, developing your personal brand, 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: or keeping the public up to date on the COVID 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: nineteen situation, your job is to tell a story. If 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: people don't understand you or don't tune in, then everything 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: else is for nothing. So how do you get better 7 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: at communicating? Norman Swann, a physician, journalist, broadcaster, and the 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: host of ABC's Corona Cast podcast, has decades of experience, 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: not just in storytelling itself, but in helping others develop 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: their craft too, So how can we avoid the most 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: common mistake that new writers make when it comes to communicating. 12 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: My name is doctor Amantha Imbat. I'm an organizational psychologist 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: and founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is 14 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: how I work a show about how to help you 15 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: do your best work. On today is my Favorite Tip episode, 16 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: we go back to an interview from the past and 17 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: I pick out my favorite tip from the interview. In 18 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: today's show, I speak with Norman Swan, and something that 19 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: I always find really impressive when I listen to Norman 20 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: is how effective he is at communicating health information. I 21 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: wanted to know how he came to be so good 22 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: at communicating complex things in simple terms. 23 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 2: That's taking years to develop. 24 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 3: So one of the joys of doing what I do 25 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 3: do is it's exactly what you say. 26 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: I really love it. 27 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 3: That's what I loved storytelling, and so that's what journalismsm 28 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 3: is is discipline storytelling. And when you're telling a story, 29 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 3: you've got to work out what the narrative is, how 30 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 3: to engage people in that narrative, how to stop their 31 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 3: minds lifting to something else so that they're always there. 32 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: And I liken it to grabbing somebody by the neck, 33 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 3: sitting them down, nothing else to think about now, And. 34 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: What's the ebb. 35 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 3: And flow of the energy of a communication piece as 36 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 3: well as the content of that. 37 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 2: So when I first joined the ABC, that's what you know. 38 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 3: I already had that love of storytelling, and then you 39 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 3: had to apply it to communicating complex information more complex information. 40 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: And I had a colleague then, unfortunately, actor young Peter Hunt, 41 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 3: who we worked closely together. 42 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: He was an environmental journalist. I was health and I 43 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 2: was more health. 44 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 4: Side, and we used to work together and do that 45 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 4: TESSK together. He had something that he wanted to communicate 46 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 4: till he wanted to communicate. We workshop how we did it, 47 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 4: and we'd read each other's scripts and give people and 48 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 4: give each other feedback. And we did that for some years. 49 00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 4: And I think that once you've been doing that sort 50 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 4: of thing for some years, you kind of get what 51 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 4: works and what doesn't work. And now one of the 52 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 4: pleasures I get is actually working with young incoming broadcasters 53 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 4: and working on their scripts and showing them ways of 54 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 4: changing the story, how you might create a metaphor an 55 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 4: image something to grab onto and get that rhythm right 56 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 4: and pass that on. 57 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 3: But it's just years and years of doing it, practicing 58 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 3: and getting feedback, and years and years of failure as well, 59 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: and learning from your failures. 60 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: So when you are editing, say a less experienced person script, 61 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 1: for example, what are some of the things that you're 62 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: looking for or are some of the pieces of advice 63 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: that you find yourself giving often? 64 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 3: Well, I think the mistake that some people make, and 65 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 3: it's not just young kids coming in and learning, it's people. 66 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 3: Something you're doing is that you feel you're on a 67 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 3: mission to explain. And if you feel you're on a 68 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 3: mission to explain, you're going to fail. Before you start. 69 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 3: That's why I'm talking about storytelling. 70 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: Now. 71 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: Storytelling is episodic. 72 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: It has a beginning, a middle, and an end, but 73 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: it also has episodes within it. And you don't tell 74 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 3: the whole story up front. You've got to give people 75 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 3: a reason to move on. So the common things that 76 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 3: I find people do is they give away the story 77 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 3: at the beginning. All you've got to do at the 78 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 3: beginning is give people a reason to listen because it's 79 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 3: going to be a payoff, and make sure they do 80 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 3: get a payoff. 81 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: It's explaining too. 82 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 3: Much at one time rather than parsing out the information 83 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 3: so that I'm going to give you a little bit, 84 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 3: you get a little bit, No, consolidate that little bit 85 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 3: of information. Then I'll take you to the next place. 86 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 3: And I'm taking you by the hand through the story. 87 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 3: And you've got to trust me that I will take 88 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 3: you by the hand and i will not lose you 89 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: during the story. 90 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: I just loved hearing Norman's insight into what goes on 91 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: behind the scenes and in his head when he thinks 92 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: about how best to communicate important information, which I just 93 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: think he does so well. And if you're looking for 94 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: more tips to improve the way that you work. I 95 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three core things 96 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: that I have discovered that help me work better. You 97 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: can sign up for that at Howiwork dot co. That's 98 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: how I Work dot co. How I Work is produced 99 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios. And 100 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: thank you to Martin Nimba who does the audio mix 101 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: for every episode and makes everything sound much better than 102 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: it would have otherwise. See you next time.