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Speaker 1: Now more than a week ago, we know the IKAC

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Speaker 1: delegate Patricia Kelly found Michael Murphy had committed unsatisfactory conduct

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Speaker 1: in the management of conflicts of interest after failing to

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Speaker 1: disclose the full extent of their friendship with the candidate,

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Speaker 1: despite remaining on the recruitment panel and providing them with

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Speaker 1: a reference. Now, Miss Kelly called mister Murphy's actions negligent

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Speaker 1: and incompetent, stating they should have recused themselves from the

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Speaker 1: recruitment process. Now we know he was not named in

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Speaker 1: that report, but days later obviously came out and outed

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Speaker 1: himself to confirm that he was indeed the senior public

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Speaker 1: servant in that report. Now, on the weekend, of course,

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister Leofanocchiaro then issued a statement saying that

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Speaker 1: it was clear the Police Commissioner Michael Murphy apm's position

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Speaker 1: was untenable, and she had informed the commissioner that he'd

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Speaker 1: lost the confidence of the government and gave him the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to resign. She's now begun the pro seas to

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Speaker 1: terminate his appointment. The opposition leader Selena Rubo joins me

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Speaker 1: on the line right now. Good morning to you, Selena.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Selena, do you believe that this is the right

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Speaker 1: move that the Chief Minister did, indeed need to begin

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Speaker 1: the process to terminate the commissioner's appointment.

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Speaker 2: Katie, First and foremost, I just want to say, thinking

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Speaker 2: of the hard working police who are out there on

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Speaker 2: the ground have been severely affected by this scandal. I

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Speaker 2: know that there's been a lot of morale around this

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Speaker 2: and the scandal, so I just wanted to put my

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Speaker 2: thoughts with the police at this point, Katie. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we think about the actions of Chief Minister for Nookiarro.

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Speaker 2: When the Ikak report was first delivered and announced, the

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister tried to cover it up and excused it

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Speaker 2: as a learning exercise. She took no action at the time,

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Speaker 2: and there was mounting pressure from both community and the

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Speaker 2: around this particular issue and how important it is to

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Speaker 2: territorians to be able to trust senior public servants, to

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Speaker 2: be able to trust those who are in leadership in

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. We saw no action by the Chief

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Speaker 2: Minister until days and days later, and you know, nine

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Speaker 2: o'clock on a Saturday night coming out with that line.

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Speaker 2: It's just not acceptable, Katie, and I think that it

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Speaker 2: shows that Leif and Nokia is not fit for the leadership.

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Speaker 1: So you actually think she shouldn't be the Chief Minister

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Speaker 1: as a result of.

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Speaker 2: This, Well, I think it's a poor extremely poor formed

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Speaker 2: by Leif Nokira, who's also the police excuse me, the

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Speaker 2: police minister, Katie. We need to be able to trust

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Speaker 2: our leaders. And yes, we know that politicians get a

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Speaker 2: lot of flack and I'm not debuting, you know, not

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Speaker 2: debating that in terms of criticism and feedback from the community.

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Speaker 2: But when the community expects and demands action, they want

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Speaker 2: that at the highest level, Katie. They want that from

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Speaker 2: the Chief Minister, they want that from senior executives in

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Speaker 2: the public service. And this is clearly a failure of

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Speaker 2: Leofanocchiaro to do that, to meet community expectations, to be

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Speaker 2: a person of action, which is what she said she

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Speaker 2: would do, which is what she promised in the anti

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Speaker 2: election to territories that she would act and that she

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Speaker 2: would be open and transparent, and we have not seen

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Speaker 2: that with this latest debacle and this scandal which is

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Speaker 2: affecting our police.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's a.

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Speaker 1: Big call to question whether she should remain as the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister. You know, when it's a week between that

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Speaker 1: Ikak report being released, she had said that she'd taken

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Speaker 1: the advice of the Solicitor General and indeed the Eyekak

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Speaker 1: in terms of their not naming that person. But then

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Speaker 1: once that person came out and outed themselves as being

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Speaker 1: the police commissioner, it then just taking a couple of

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Speaker 1: days for her to you know, to take the action

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Speaker 1: that she has. I mean, as I said, it's a

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Speaker 1: big call to question her leadership.

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Speaker 2: From there, Katie, I think your listeners would know this,

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Speaker 2: saying very well, a week as a long time in politics,

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Speaker 2: so a lot of things have been followed it in

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Speaker 2: the last nine to ten days, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: just showing a very real disappointment in the lack of

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Speaker 2: leadership that Leafanokira offers as the chief Minister.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask again, do you think it's the

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Speaker 1: right move now to begin to terminate the police commissioner's appointment.

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, I know that the Anti Police Association came

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Speaker 2: out very strongly around again around trust and integrity, around

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Speaker 2: having that in senior leadership, and announcing that we didn't

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Speaker 2: see that from leafanoki Ao as the Chief Minister or

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Speaker 2: the Police Minister. It came from the Police Association and

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Speaker 2: I think that now the right steps have been put

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Speaker 2: in motion. It's an ability, it's the ability to be

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Speaker 2: able to move forward so that police can get on

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Speaker 2: with the important job that they do, which was community

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Speaker 2: safety across the territory.

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Speaker 1: Well, some people are questioning if they're going to be

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Speaker 1: able to do We know this Martin Dole APM is

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Speaker 1: now indeed the acting Police Commissioner.

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Speaker 3: Do you support that appointment?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting, Katie. I heard the Chief Minister on

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Speaker 2: your show yesterday saying that she didn't know that Dole

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Speaker 2: was also on the same hiring panel until yesterday morning,

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Speaker 2: and I find that extremely hard to believe, Katie. The

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister would have been briefed by the Aikat Commission

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Speaker 2: around Operation Apollo, who sat on that panel, and surely

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Speaker 2: this would be taken into consideration by the Chief Minister,

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Speaker 2: who is also the Police Minister, in appointing an interim commissioner,

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Speaker 2: And you would think, Katie, that would be the first

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Speaker 2: question you'd ask who else was on the panel so

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Speaker 2: we can move forward around this issue, around this scandal

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Speaker 2: and she's appointed Doll.

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Speaker 1: So given the fact that we do now know that

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Speaker 1: he was on that panel, I'm interested to get your perspective.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that he should be acting as the

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Speaker 1: police commissioner?

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, I think right now, what the police need

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Speaker 2: and what terrritory want to be reassured of, is that

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Speaker 2: they can trust their leadership, that they can trust those

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Speaker 2: people who are in key decision making roles, particularly around

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Speaker 2: community safety. And I would welcome any measure, review, assessment

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Speaker 2: process that can be done to restore the trust for

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Speaker 2: our top police force so that we can restore the

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Speaker 2: confidence of the community back into the leadership of the police.

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Speaker 2: And I think that any measures that can be brought

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Speaker 2: forward into that to help our police move forward is

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Speaker 2: very much welcomed.

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Speaker 3: Look, I'll go back to that Nasik the you know,

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Speaker 3: with a review.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of Martin Dole acting now in that position,

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Speaker 1: I mean you yourself had said that you found it

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Speaker 1: hard to believe that the Chief Minister didn't know that

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Speaker 1: he was on that panel. Now, I want to make

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Speaker 1: it really clear, there is no suggestion that Martin Dole,

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Speaker 1: the acting Police Commissioner, has done anything wrong, but the

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Speaker 1: optics of this are not great. As I said to

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister yesterday, So again, do you think he's

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Speaker 1: the right person to be acting as the Police Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, I don't show sorry, I'm similar to you.

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Speaker 2: I don't imply that Martin Doll has done anything wrong either.

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Speaker 2: But yesterday we heard the Chief Minister on your show saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: it'll all come out in the wash. I don't think

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Speaker 2: that's a response that's good enough from a Chief Minister

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Speaker 2: who's also the police Minister, when her job is to

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Speaker 2: ensure that the police are supported, that there is a

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Speaker 2: restoration of trust and integrity in the police force, and

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Speaker 2: that our hard working police on the ground can move forward.

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Speaker 2: So I think that any way to put this scandal

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Speaker 2: to bed would be which I would think would be

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Speaker 2: a priority for the Chief Minister who is also the

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Speaker 2: Police Minister. And now we're starting to see more questions

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Speaker 2: form around this appointment of the interim Commissioner, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think she's put the thought and leadership into how

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Speaker 2: important that role is for us as territorians to be

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Speaker 2: able to move forward from what's jess happened and what's

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Speaker 2: unraveled over the last week and a half.

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Speaker 3: So by the sounds of it, you don't think that

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Speaker 3: he should be acting in that role.

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Speaker 2: I think the Chief Minister, if she was really wanting

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Speaker 2: to show leadership and put this scandal behind not just her,

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Speaker 2: but for territory AND's sake, for police sake, you would

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Speaker 2: think that you would choose somebody who was not necessarily

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Speaker 2: linked to that particular Operation Apollo and the KAC findings.

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Speaker 1: Now, we did speak at lengthy yesterday to the Police

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Speaker 1: Association as well about whether there needs to be a

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Speaker 1: review into executive appointments. From what you said just a

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Speaker 1: moment ago, it sounds like you do think this needs

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Speaker 1: to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, again, I think that anything to be able

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Speaker 2: to support our police, to restore trust in those top

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Speaker 2: leadership roles and the executive of police so that community

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Speaker 2: and that police on the ground can have trust in

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Speaker 2: that leadership, I very much welcome any of those processes.

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Speaker 1: Now, there has been messages coming through this morning therese

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Speaker 1: listeners saying this whole situation actually unfolded under the former government.

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Speaker 1: Is there any way that the Labor Party, as in

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Speaker 1: the former Labor government, could have done more to prevent

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Speaker 1: these in terms of the akak legislation allowing that public

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Speaker 1: servant to be named or there being you know, some

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Speaker 1: greater measures in place with our different departments to ensure

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Speaker 1: that there wasn't a situation where you could actually employ

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Speaker 1: a mate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, our labor government, our former labor government was

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Speaker 2: the first ever territory government to bring in the ikak.

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Speaker 2: The process of the ikak obviously gets reviewed and looked at,

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Speaker 2: and that's an act of Parliament around the legislation to

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Speaker 2: improve that over time. So again I'll be very interested

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Speaker 2: to see what the Colp government is planning to do

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Speaker 2: in that space. What we're talking about, though, Katie, is

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Speaker 2: a finding, an investigation and a report which still don't

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Speaker 2: know what those two recommendations are. We haven't been privy

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Speaker 2: to that and being explicit. The government hasn't been explicit

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Speaker 2: around those two recommendations from the report. What is going

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Speaker 2: to be done to move forward? What is going to

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Speaker 2: be done now we've had the Chief Minister fob things

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Speaker 2: off as a learning exercise, change her tune part way

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Speaker 2: through because of that community pressure and the media pressure,

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Speaker 2: and then come to a very severe action at the endpoint.

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Speaker 2: So that time span I know, as people say, a

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Speaker 2: couple of days, but a week is very long time

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Speaker 2: in politics as we know. But those processes that the

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister was talking about improving or essentially limiting her

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Speaker 2: ability to speak on this particular issue. We saw another

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Speaker 2: report from the IKAK around a high level public servant

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Speaker 2: doing the wrong thing. There was no response at all

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Speaker 2: from their finocchio as the Chief minister. They're about the

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Speaker 2: action of that public servant or how do we then

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Speaker 2: move forward and show integrity in the public service at

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Speaker 2: that high level to give territories the confidence that everyone

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Speaker 2: is doing the right thing and to the best of

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Speaker 2: their ability to serve the public, which.

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Speaker 3: Is definitely get what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the irony is not lost on me

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Speaker 1: that this behavior was actually under your term of government.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So Katie, again, those hiring processes anythink that is

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Speaker 2: not a CEO level does not have the oversight from

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Speaker 2: the executive arm of the government of the day. So

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Speaker 2: whether that's a labor government, where that's the CLP government,

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Speaker 2: they are the processes to keep that distance around. Again,

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Speaker 2: what we've seen around hiring mates or interfering with the

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Speaker 2: final outcome of the hiring process at that height, particularly

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Speaker 2: at that high level, but at all levels of government.

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Speaker 2: So again, this is not about when someone was hired.

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Speaker 2: It's about the actions of what now has been for

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Speaker 2: by that report, by that investigation, what has happened since

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Speaker 2: that investigation and those recommendations were released, How the Chief

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Speaker 2: Minister has tried to cover it up and you have

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Speaker 2: it as a cop out, and then the pressure unfolding

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Speaker 2: on her and the late action that she has taken

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Speaker 2: and literally a late night action. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Look, I understand what you're saying. I get the point

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Speaker 1: that you're trying to make. But again I will say

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Speaker 1: we've got listeners literally messaging now saying Katie, it's a

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Speaker 1: bit rich for the opposition leader to make these comments

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Speaker 1: when there was no action taken against Chancey Paig with

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Speaker 1: his shares in metcash, there was not quick action on

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Speaker 1: the former police commissioner needing to be removed for want

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Speaker 1: of a better word, I mean, people sort of aren't

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Speaker 1: buying it this morning, Selena, Katie.

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Speaker 2: I understand the frustrations that. That's why when we see

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Speaker 2: those who are in leadership, this is why this is

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Speaker 2: such a high public interest matter, Katie. When people are

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Speaker 2: in leadership. It's about what they do. It's about the

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Speaker 2: expectations of community and the actions that follow. And when

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Speaker 2: there is a lack of action, then we really need

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Speaker 2: to be concerned and that's what we've seen from Leafanocciaro.

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Speaker 1: Selena Rubo, I want to ask you about an issue

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Speaker 1: that continues to rage on in Catherine at the moment,

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Speaker 1: and that is the concerns at the Catherine High School. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's being reported this morning in the Northern Territory News

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Speaker 1: that the cycle of violence at Catherine High has taken

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Speaker 1: hold in the town, with the school going in to

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Speaker 1: yet another lockdown yesterday morning. This followed a lockdown on

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Speaker 1: Friday afternoon after another violent school yard brawl, which saw

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Speaker 1: police again back at the school to sort the situation out.

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Speaker 1: Troubled parents of students at the school have been in

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Speaker 1: contact with the NT News saying, you know, telling them

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Speaker 1: horror stories the violence against children, backed up with videos

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Speaker 1: which have been filmed on the school's bus or in

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Speaker 1: the yards. Selena, what's going on at the school at

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Speaker 1: the moment? I know you know, I know that obviously

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Speaker 1: you are in the area.

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Speaker 2: What are your thoughts, O, Katie? Any violence in schools

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Speaker 2: is absolutely unacceptable. The safety of students and staff and

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Speaker 2: visitors to the school should always be paramount, and it

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Speaker 2: has been concerning to see some of the particular incidences

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Speaker 2: occurring in a short period of time here locally in Catherine.

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Speaker 2: I think it's been very upsetting, not just of course

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Speaker 2: for students and staff, but for families and for cares

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Speaker 2: for students who are attending the school. I know that

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Speaker 2: the Casting community is really great at getting behind and

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Speaker 2: supporting each other when there are rough times, and I

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Speaker 2: hope that they continue to provide their support to the

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Speaker 2: Catherine High School students and staff. And I really hope

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Speaker 2: that they're the extra support, not just in terms of

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Speaker 2: that critical end that you know, the police end, but

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Speaker 2: all of the other layers of being able to support

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Speaker 2: young people in their journey, particularly those staff who do

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Speaker 2: an amazing job Dane and out to support our students.

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Speaker 2: I really hope that the Catherine community continues to band

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Speaker 2: together to really support the school in a really rough time.

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Speaker 1: At the moment, Yeah, we'll try and talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about this. I think it's really important that

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Speaker 1: things do get sorted out. You need to ensure that

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Speaker 1: your kids are safe when they are going to school.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some of the vision that I've seen is appalling.

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Speaker 1: I'd be mortified if my child was a victim to

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Speaker 1: the bashing behavior that I've seen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, as I said, again, absolutely unacceptable and wanting

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Speaker 2: to support the school and the students and the staff

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Speaker 2: and the families as much as possible where we can

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Speaker 2: and continue to stamp out that unacceptable behavior and very

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Speaker 2: and very concerning behavior.

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Speaker 1: Selena Obo, leader of the Opposition, Really appreciate your time

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Speaker 1: this morning. Thanks so much for having a chat with us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, thank you.