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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the sit Down.

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Speaker 1: I'm Mattrolope, a writer for ozopen dot com, and I'm.

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Speaker 2: Viv Christine, managing editor of Australian Tennis magazine.

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Speaker 1: And Viv why are we sitting down with Alisha Mullick

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Speaker 1: this week?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's twenty years can you believe it? Since Alisha

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Speaker 2: won bronze at the Athens Olympics in two thousand and

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Speaker 2: four and she still describes that as the pinnacle of

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Speaker 2: her career.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really cool to chat to her and

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Speaker 1: hear her reflect on that run in such vivid detail.

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Speaker 1: So let's have a listen now. Alisha Mullik, you are

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Speaker 1: joining us on the sit Down today, almost twenty years

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Speaker 1: on from what I imagine must be a huge career highlight,

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Speaker 1: and I just wonder what you remember about those games

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Speaker 1: twenty year is on.

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I can't believe it's twenty years ago.

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Speaker 3: Quite amazing, because it's all still really fresh in my mind.

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Speaker 3: And I think that, you know, the memory is so

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Speaker 3: vivid because it was just I think, such a real moment,

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Speaker 3: a turning point, a real achievement within my career. I

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Speaker 3: look back on it now I can't quite believe, you know,

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Speaker 3: that that it happened and that I achieved a bronze medal.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the first thing that I really think of was,

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Speaker 3: you know, how difficult it was to win a medal

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Speaker 3: in Athens, not purely because of the venue, the conditions.

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Speaker 3: I think most days were forty plus, so I really

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Speaker 3: remember that well. But secondly, the field, you know, aside

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Speaker 3: from myself winning bronze and then Emmeline Maresmo silver, Justin

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Speaker 3: Hannan gold was just you know, a phenomenal to be

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Speaker 3: within their company and standing on the podium. That's a

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Speaker 3: moment really etched in my mind that I will never

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Speaker 3: ever forget. And you know, the kids now, you know,

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Speaker 3: leading into the Olympics. Now children start to do projects

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Speaker 3: and things, and they have a keen interest in varied sports.

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Speaker 3: So it's it's nice to occasionally, you know, have some

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Speaker 3: reminders of it too. Mostly every four years.

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Speaker 1: Two weeks before the Olympics, you won the Stockholm title,

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Speaker 1: and I just wonder getting that win so soon before

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Speaker 1: the Olympics, Like, did you feel you were coming into

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Speaker 1: Athens with like more momentum and confidence as a result of.

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Speaker 3: That, Yeah, without question, And I do remember playing in Stockholm.

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Speaker 3: I fortunately had won the singles and the double, so

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Speaker 3: I had a lot of match practice in that particular week,

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Speaker 3: and once again it was warm conditions quite almost quite

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Speaker 3: similar to Athens. So everything was I think tipping in

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Speaker 3: the right way as far as preparation for the Olympics

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Speaker 3: when I competed in when I competed in Sydney, I

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Speaker 3: didn't quite I was in the Olympics, but I didn't

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Speaker 3: really think I was at the level or bleed, I

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Speaker 3: was at the level to win a medal. But most

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Speaker 3: definitely arriving in Athens having won a tournament, you know,

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Speaker 3: it being probably the best six months in all you know,

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Speaker 3: the best six months that I've ever had in my career.

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Speaker 3: I felt that I was a definite shot. So it

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Speaker 3: was a really different feeling going to the Olympics with

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Speaker 3: a medal in sight. I think there's a lot of Olympians,

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Speaker 3: or a lot of competitors who go there to participate,

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Speaker 3: don't really have the full belief, don't have the full

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Speaker 3: understanding of their ability and what it takes to win

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Speaker 3: a medal. So that's what really set happens apart. I

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Speaker 3: felt that I was ready I was really well prepared

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Speaker 3: and the result really showed.

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Speaker 2: Alicia, you beat Isugiyama, the number eight seed in the quarterfinals,

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Speaker 2: so they gave you that guaranteed your chance to play

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Speaker 2: off for the bronze medal match. Can you remember what

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Speaker 2: that felt like, securing that chance.

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Speaker 3: The opportunity, getting myself into a position where it was just,

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Speaker 3: you know, it was within sight. All of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: it's not about the matches. It's a metal match, and

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Speaker 3: that it reads differently on the schedule. It feels different,

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, You're in contention for something that

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Speaker 3: very very few people in the whole world have the

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Speaker 3: ability to ever put their hand up for. So it

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Speaker 3: gave me a real you know, it gave me a

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Speaker 3: sense of pride that I'd put my country in that position,

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Speaker 3: myself in that position, my team in that position, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I couldn't wait for it. I was really looking

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Speaker 3: forward to that following round. I yeah, I really narrowed

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Speaker 3: my focus. I still I do remember my preparation and

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Speaker 3: it was almost as if everything really condensed and you

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Speaker 3: sort of block out the outside nose because it was

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Speaker 3: about going that far, but making sure that I had

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Speaker 3: a medal to take home as well.

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Speaker 2: Were you aware of what had happened to Anastasia Mesquina

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Speaker 2: in the other semi final before you faced her in

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Speaker 2: the playoff match.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I had, I had, And in terms of I

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Speaker 3: think she was I think she had a couple of

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Speaker 3: match points or a match point away. I think from

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Speaker 3: beating Emilie or Justine. I can't rememberho it was, but

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Speaker 3: I feel like she was in a winning position and

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Speaker 3: she'd let it slip. She'd completely let a match go.

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Speaker 3: I think she got anxious, she got nervous, and I

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Speaker 3: remember her being completely devastated walking off the court.

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Speaker 2: And can you describe the psychology of playing for the

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Speaker 2: bronze medal, like you're balancing the disappointment of the semi final,

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Speaker 2: yet you're playing for such a great prize.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. You know, that's the difference with the Olympics.

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Speaker 3: In every other tournament around the world, you at at

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Speaker 3: some point in time, you get bumped bundled out of

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Speaker 3: the tournament unless you're the victor.

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Speaker 2: And you know, for.

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Speaker 3: Players such as you know Serena and Novak and you

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Speaker 3: know Venus and you know these stars that continually make

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Speaker 3: finals continue, you're lead at title winners. You know, that's

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Speaker 3: always there. So the majority of tennis players around the

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Speaker 3: world losing every week and that's I guess that was

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Speaker 3: pretty special to have lost but still had a shot

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Speaker 3: for the trophy, for the bronze medal, So it still

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Speaker 3: felt like a win. It still felt you know, and

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Speaker 3: really not since junior days do you lose and then

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Speaker 3: you have another opportunity, you know, in the feet in

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Speaker 3: a van or you have something else to win. So

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Speaker 3: it didn't diminish the didn't you know. I still felt

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Speaker 3: incredibly excited, incredibly proud the fact that I was buying

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Speaker 3: for a bronze medal. Yeah, in no way did it

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Speaker 3: diminish my efforts as well in losing the previous.

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Speaker 1: Route Olympics return to Summer, the Summer Games in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty eight, and in that time you're the only Aussie

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Speaker 1: that's won an individual medal any any other time and

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Speaker 1: Aussie's done it and it's been in doubles, so so

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Speaker 1: that that, yeah, it's quite unique. And how where does

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Speaker 1: that kind of achievement sit in the whole context your

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Speaker 1: your career considering that significance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's right up there. It's probably the proudest moment

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Speaker 3: of my whole career. I you know, winning brights means

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Speaker 3: that you you walk away, you're exceptionally proud. You you

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Speaker 3: get to take something home, You have a chance to

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Speaker 3: step up on the podium. You you still have a

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Speaker 3: chance to represent your country by you know, being in

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Speaker 3: that third place and being alongside complete champions of the sport,

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Speaker 3: and you've had a second bite at the cherry. You've

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Speaker 3: made the most of. But so it's a winning feeling.

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Speaker 3: You feel like you've won a Grand Slam. I mean,

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Speaker 3: the Grand Slams are the pinnacle of tennis. That my

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Speaker 3: bronze medal was the pinnacle I think of my career,

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Speaker 3: no question about it. You know, you reference how happy

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Speaker 3: bronze medalists are and it's it's completely and true. It's

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Speaker 3: completely euphoric as well. You know, there's a really good

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Speaker 3: good I remember reading an article once saying that bronze

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Speaker 3: medalists live longer than silver medalists because you know, if

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Speaker 3: you win gold, yeah, things a great roasie. You you

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Speaker 3: know that you've reached the pinnacle in your sport, you know,

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Speaker 3: and the silver medalists always lived lived with what could

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Speaker 3: have been what should have been, you know, the disappointment,

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Speaker 3: reliving all the moments of where the gold medal match

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Speaker 3: went wrong, what they could have done better, living in regret.

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Speaker 3: And I think the bronze medalists, they said, you know,

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Speaker 3: are so happy with their performance. They've come away with

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Speaker 3: something and they you know, I think it increases their

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Speaker 3: living capacity by a couple of extra years, the silver medalists.

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Speaker 3: So I'm kind of glad I got the bronze, you know,

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Speaker 3: gold would have been great. But you know, it was

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Speaker 3: the most incredible feeling too too. When I was presented

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Speaker 3: with the medal you know, around my neck and had

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Speaker 3: the wreath from Athens as well, the olive leaves and

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Speaker 3: the wreath that they placed over our heads. It was, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was a real pinch me moment that actually didn't

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Speaker 3: feel real at the time. It was something I never

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Speaker 3: thought I would ever experience because you watch it as

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Speaker 3: a kid and feels so far away from reality. You know,

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Speaker 3: you see this thing, the Olympics on a screen every

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Speaker 3: couple of years, you know, the winter in between every

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Speaker 3: two years, and you know, so that the dream became

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Speaker 3: a reality, and I think at that moment it was

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Speaker 3: I've never cried because of joy. But I did cry

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Speaker 3: that match, and it's never happened to me before in

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Speaker 3: my whole career where I have won a match. I

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Speaker 3: felt so proud of myself that I actually was in

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Speaker 3: tears and I'd given everything and it was the only

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Speaker 3: time it ever happened in my career tears of joy.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Well that speaks of the significance of where it

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Speaker 1: sits in your career.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you alluded.

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Speaker 1: To it earlier in the chat that you were on

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Speaker 1: the podium with Justine and Emily. So you lost the

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Speaker 1: semi final to Emily. She went into the gold medal

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Speaker 1: match and lost to Hennan. And there's some great photos

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Speaker 1: of the three of you appearing on the Metal Days

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Speaker 1: and you're all talking to each other, I guess after

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Speaker 1: the anthems or whatever, and you're and there's photos of

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Speaker 1: you and Emily looking at Justine's and you're all sharing

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Speaker 1: a joke and you've all got the reads on your head.

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Speaker 1: I just wonder, Yeah, what that moment was like sharing

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Speaker 1: it with them, because as you said, they were, they

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Speaker 1: were such champions of the game themselves, and what what

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Speaker 1: was that like camaraderie like in the in the metal

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Speaker 1: presentation and when that was all happening.

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Speaker 3: So I'd never seen either of them smile that much either,

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Speaker 3: you know, you know to tow athletes that keep their

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Speaker 3: cards pretty close to their chests, or they did in

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Speaker 3: their careers. Between Emilie and Justine and so they were,

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Speaker 3: they were head over heels with their performance, their win,

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Speaker 3: their their medals, and you know, for all of us,

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Speaker 3: it was a moment that we're all comparing you know, weights, colors,

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Speaker 3: we were all just so so interested in and I think, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're just all of us overcome with joy. And I

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Speaker 3: have to say the same for Emline and Justine as well,

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Speaker 3: that it was just pure joy in that moment. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: for Justine being able to experience her national anthem, the

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Speaker 3: Algium national anthem, that was you know, one step further

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Speaker 3: as well. It was you know that that even gave

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Speaker 3: me goosebumps listening to it as an Australian athlete.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, the Olympics is unlike any other experience that you

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Speaker 2: have on tour. What was it like being around the

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Speaker 2: Australian team, more broadly the Australian Olympic team and just

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Speaker 2: other great athletes of the world.

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Speaker 3: I think the absolute highlight is because throughout the year,

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Speaker 3: in a general sense in tennis, you you aren't just

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Speaker 3: following the summers around, but you are You're amongst tennis

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Speaker 3: players all the time, tennis coaches, trainers, fitness trainers, mind coaches,

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Speaker 3: you know, so you are around the same people so often.

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Speaker 3: It's so many very tennis tournaments around the world, and

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden you are traveling on buses with

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Speaker 3: the swimming team, with the table tennis team, and getting

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Speaker 3: to know other athletes outside of your sport and really

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Speaker 3: forming some great cans, learning about their journeys, how they

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Speaker 3: arrived there, learning more about other coaches in other sports

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Speaker 3: as well. So you have this huge amount of respect

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Speaker 3: for everyone around you, and there will be all the

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Speaker 3: smaller moments that I really enjoyed, was, you know, going

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Speaker 3: to you know, pick up your laundry from the laundromat

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Speaker 3: in the village, but you might be in Athens. I

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Speaker 3: think the line's often for twenty five you know, twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five minutes. Inevitably there's a couple of Aussies in

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Speaker 3: the line. You know, you let them jump in front

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Speaker 3: of you so they can get their laundry. A bit quicker.

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Speaker 3: You start chatting and you just have a little bit

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Speaker 3: of time to learn so much more about others that

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Speaker 3: you generally wouldn't have had the opportunity to do so

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Speaker 3: in crossing paths. Also, the apartment blocks are set up

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Speaker 3: so a number of sports and athletes are sharing, often

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Speaker 3: on the same level, so inevitably you're having coffee or

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Speaker 3: a meal all together, and that's a that's a real highlight.

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Speaker 3: It sounds so normal, but you know, in a sport

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Speaker 3: like tennis, we often just don't have that opportunity. That's

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Speaker 3: why it's just so extra special.

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Speaker 2: Were there any particular athletes that you can recall meeting

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Speaker 2: and sort of connecting with and anything specific you learn

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Speaker 2: from them.

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Speaker 3: I think, well, I did remember having a photo with

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Speaker 3: Yeomen and that was I have to track that one down.

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Speaker 3: Actually I'm not sure what it really is, but that

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Speaker 3: was a real moment. You know, someone that you've seen

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Speaker 3: on TV, the basketballer for so many years, probably within

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Speaker 3: the Australian team. I think it was. You know, I've

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Speaker 3: took a real interest in the group that were boxing,

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Speaker 3: learning about their journeys. Even now I can't maybe we

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Speaker 3: shared with now might have been actually the I think

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Speaker 3: there was softball in Athens. I think I'm sharing some

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Speaker 3: of the softballers. To be honest, did you get.

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Speaker 2: To watch other sports at all? What other sports did

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Speaker 2: you take in?

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Speaker 3: Very you It was just because of the conditions in Athens,

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Speaker 3: lining up with matches, playing doubles was just a lot

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Speaker 3: on the schedule. So I do remember watching some cycling.

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Speaker 3: I do remember heading over to the pool and watching

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Speaker 3: some races, doing as much as I could. However, hockey

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Speaker 3: as well. I'd taken a hockey game that was an

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Speaker 3: evening game, just as a real balance, you know. And

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Speaker 3: that's I think the difficult part for a lot of

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Speaker 3: athletes to manage the excitement of being in the village,

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Speaker 3: managing their training, managing their competition. You know, even getting

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Speaker 3: from it's different to every other event, because even getting

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Speaker 3: from your accommodation to the dining hall sometimes can take

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Speaker 3: twenty minutes by the time you've walked there, you know.

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Speaker 3: So there's there's just so many other factors that you

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Speaker 3: need to consider in your data, training or preparation for

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Speaker 3: your match. So but you know you're at the Olympics,

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Speaker 3: have to take some of it in. I know there's

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Speaker 3: lots of sports choose not to do the ceremony, not

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Speaker 3: to take pardon that, not to go and watch any

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Speaker 3: other sports, so no outside distractions. I think it's a

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Speaker 3: really fine balance. If I yeah, if I had a

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Speaker 3: chance to chat to some younger, younger players who were

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Speaker 3: representing Australia for the first time, I'd say, you know,

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Speaker 3: strike a really fine balance there.

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Speaker 2: And the opening ceremony. You did do that, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we all look.

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Speaker 3: Very few players didn't take part, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's always I think as tennis players in general, we're

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Speaker 3: quite flexible. You know, we're used to delays, we're used

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Speaker 3: to waiting around quite a loss, so you know, in

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Speaker 3: various tournaments, bad weather or various other reasons. So the

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Speaker 3: opening ceremony was always something which I opted in for.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's a real highlight. There's a huge

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Speaker 3: buzz amongst the village, and especially when the whole Australian

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Speaker 3: team converge in their outfits and consense excitement and everyone's

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Speaker 3: scrubbing photos with each other when the flag bearers were announced,

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Speaker 3: it's a huge you know, again, it's what you watch

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Speaker 3: on TV and it's genuinely you know, you feel like

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Speaker 3: incredibly proud as an Australia in that as an Australian

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Speaker 3: in that moment when you're about to walk into a stadium,

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Speaker 3: you know, the piercing screens and whistles, it's you know,

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Speaker 3: the roar of the crowd just phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: Were you aware of the response to your bronze medal

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Speaker 1: achievement back home in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Not really.

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Speaker 3: And I say that because after the Olympics, I headed

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Speaker 3: straight to New Haven, so I was, you know, barely

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Speaker 3: had time to blink. I sort of, I think only

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Speaker 3: had a day or two and I was on a

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Speaker 3: flight and you know, off to the States. It was

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Speaker 3: heavy preparation for the US Open so that, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was really immediate in my mind. So it was

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Speaker 3: sort of difficult to really catch yourself enjoy it too much.

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Speaker 3: But I don't think I really realized perhaps the momentum

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Speaker 3: at home. Maybe now I recognize the significance being the

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Speaker 3: only singles medalists now, you know, in history, and I'm

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Speaker 3: really proud of that, you know. To me, it really

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Speaker 3: solidified in my mind that you know, I was up

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Speaker 3: there with the best of them, you know, the handful

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Speaker 3: of the best of them. So when you when you

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Speaker 3: genuinely feel that it gave me a different outlook for

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Speaker 3: the US Open for the remainder of the year leading

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Speaker 3: into the Australian summer, you know it did, and I

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Speaker 3: want to I think I'd won almost the most amount

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Speaker 3: of matches on tour that year in two thousand and

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Speaker 3: four or close to so it really helped almost provide

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Speaker 3: an extra layer of armor for me for the Australian Summer.

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Speaker 3: I remember arriving ready for the leading events and the

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Speaker 3: AO feely in a pretty bulletproof I'd played so many

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Speaker 3: matches of won a heap. The bronze medal sort of, yeah,

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Speaker 3: propelled me forward in a sense that it gave me

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Speaker 3: an I think it gave me a differentpreciation for the

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Speaker 3: level that I was at as well, and a really

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Speaker 3: different level of confidence being a medalist at the Olympics.

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Speaker 3: Yet you know, it helped propel me forward to that

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Speaker 3: feeling of that I could win the Australian app And

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Speaker 3: that's the only Australian Open I really felt. It didn't

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Speaker 3: feel it in any of the other ones ever.

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Speaker 1: You kind of alluded to it before, but tennis players

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Speaker 1: get us this all the time about where Olympic success

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Speaker 1: sits compared to Grand Slams, because it is that kind

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, the pinnacle of the sport. Some

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Speaker 1: people might say the Australian Open or whatever like that,

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Speaker 1: but it sounds like for you, the Olympics is right

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Speaker 1: up there, if not the best for you. Like if

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Speaker 1: you could choose a gold medal or a Grand Slam

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Speaker 1: singles title, what did you pick?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I wish I won a Grand Slam in

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Speaker 3: single so then I could really tell you where where

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Speaker 3: it's sat. But the bronze for me is I mean,

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Speaker 3: in fairness, lots of you know that there's not many

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Speaker 3: one time Grand Slam winners. Most of the time they're

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Speaker 3: multiple Grand Slam winns. And I'm pretty sure if you

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Speaker 3: asked those players where that rate their gold medal for

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Speaker 3: those that have won a number of them. You know,

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Speaker 3: God sam s get old. I'm bless Europe, you know,

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Speaker 3: Serena or Novak at this point in time, or perhaps

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Speaker 3: our caras down the track. The gold medal, I can

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Speaker 3: imagine is always going to have a really special place,

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Speaker 3: probably front and center in their trophy cabinets at home.

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Speaker 3: But for me, it was bronze was like gold. It

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Speaker 3: felt that it felt that I achieved everything in my

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Speaker 3: life and tennis, and it really, it really really did.

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Speaker 3: Winning the bronze medal it felt like gold. It could

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Speaker 3: have been silver, could have been gold, could have been bronze,

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Speaker 3: but I was absolutely over the moon. But I think,

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Speaker 3: I think it has a really special place for a

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Speaker 3: lot of athletes because of tennis being that individual sport.

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Speaker 3: But there are so many individuals who are so passionate

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Speaker 3: about their country, is about playing for their flag. So

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Speaker 3: I think some that's a little bit lost and diminished

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Speaker 3: because of the fact that tennis players had so many

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Speaker 3: platforms throughout the year, which sadly other sports don't have.

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Speaker 3: So I think publicly and in the press sometimes you know,

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Speaker 3: the worth of a medal to a tennis player isn't

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Speaker 3: always probably acknowledged as much as it should or give

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Speaker 3: them the same attention. So you know, happily that changes

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Speaker 3: changes you know, people's perspective as well on it.

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Speaker 1: We'll see, I guess in Paris what the reactions are

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Speaker 1: in the next week.

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Speaker 2: I do. Yeah, Alicia, we've heard you say that you

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Speaker 2: weren't quite sure where your actual medal.

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Speaker 3: Was yes, yeah, and I still don't know where. I

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Speaker 3: said to Mum, I was going to do this interview

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Speaker 3: and that, oh god, I said, in the case, I

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00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 3: still can't find it. So I look. When I returned

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00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,719
Speaker 3: poked from Athens, from that whole trip in America, I

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00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 3: remember showing my medal to a lot of people friends,

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Speaker 3: you know. I've been in biuted to a few schools

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Speaker 3: to you know, chat to various year levels about the

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Speaker 3: Olympics about my metal. Took it into show them, so

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Speaker 3: I don't necessarily think I've left it anywhere. I remember

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Speaker 3: always keeping it in a and two pairs of really

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Speaker 3: bright pink bed sock, and I think I remember going

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Speaker 3: back to it was just a really busy time. But

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00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 3: a year or two later going back to base to

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00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 3: keep it in my soft draw, and I thought that

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Speaker 3: wasn't a very good place. I think I remember going

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Speaker 3: to Mum and Dad's house and popping it up in

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Speaker 3: their attic. I have had a little search. I've searched,

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Speaker 3: I've moved homes a number of times. I've searched everything

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Speaker 3: from top to toe, and I think I have to

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Speaker 3: give Mum and Dad's house in Adelaide another going over

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Speaker 3: because I just cannot find it. I cannot actually remember

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Speaker 3: where its final resting spot is, and it's a bit embarrassing.

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Speaker 3: And now my kids are at the age i'm sure

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00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 3: they'd love to see it, So I probably need to

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Speaker 3: start looking at if I cannot find it, whether I

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Speaker 3: can get a replica produced. But it's so sad, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it does sound like one of those things that

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Speaker 2: you'll find it one day in it'll be such a

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Speaker 2: great moment.

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Speaker 3: It probably feel better than winning the actual medal, to

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Speaker 3: be honest, that's probably going to be the highlight of

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Speaker 3: my life, never mind winning it on the tennis court. Well.

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Speaker 2: Alicia always thrived in a team environment, so it's not

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Speaker 2: surprising to hear that she describes the Olympics as the

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Speaker 2: pinnacle of her career and something that she'll remember for life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: And it was kind of at that time that bronze

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Speaker 1: medal also the pinnacle of kind of her tennis performance

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Speaker 1: because that was the start of an incredible six month

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Speaker 1: run that extended into January of the next year, and

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Speaker 1: she had her best Grand Slam result by making the

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Speaker 1: quarterfinals with the Australian Open. And yes, it certainly kind

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Speaker 1: of started without Athens run and you can actually look

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Speaker 1: back at that. We've released the full match of Alisha

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Speaker 1: Mullock's fourth round win over Venus Williams and spoke to

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Speaker 1: her about that career best Grand Slam run and yet

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Speaker 1: another great opportunity to hear from Alisha talking about such

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Speaker 1: a great part of her career.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back next Monday with another episode of the

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Speaker 2: sit Down, and in the meantime, you can listen to

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Speaker 2: John and the team this Thursday on the Aoshow Weekly.

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Speaker 1: And details for how to contact us as always, they're

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Speaker 1: in the show notes. Please subscribe, rate and review. We'll

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Speaker 1: see you next week, Vive

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Speaker 2: See you, Matt,