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Speaker 1: It's a woman woody podcast minis, but when you're in

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Speaker 1: a rash or just can't be bothered listening to them

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Speaker 1: blather on for half an hour.

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Speaker 2: Right now, we've got a guest. She's done some incredible research.

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Speaker 2: Investigative journalist at its peak when seriously, true crime podcast

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Speaker 2: could not be higher, But this woman's clocked the game.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Death downloaded more than fifty million times. We've got

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Speaker 2: Laura bil on the show.

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Speaker 3: If you've seen the hit show Doctor Death on Stan,

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Speaker 3: you're gonna love our next guest. She's the reporter who

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Speaker 3: first brought the story of Christopher Dunch to our attention,

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Speaker 3: the Texan surgeon who committed gross malpractice on thirty one

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Speaker 3: of his patients and killed two. She's since gone on

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Speaker 3: to make two more seasons of the podcast focus in

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Speaker 3: on two more examples of malpractice in the medical field.

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Speaker 2: Please welcome to the show. Reporter and host. It's Laura Beale.

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Speaker 4: Laura, welcome, Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Laura.

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Speaker 1: I recently finished Stan's new show Doctor Death. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was fascinating, engrossing, emotional, scary, and huge credit goes

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Speaker 1: to you for that TV show. My first question to you, though,

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Speaker 1: and this is something that isn't necessarily answered in the

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Speaker 1: TV show. Do you believe doctor Christopher Dunch was deliberately

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Speaker 1: stuffing up surgeries or was he incompetent?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I get asked this question a lot,

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Speaker 4: and I always have to answer the same which is,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I can say is that he certainly

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Speaker 4: had a lot of hubris, and it's certainly possible that,

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Speaker 4: I mean, anything's possible. It's possible he was doing it

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Speaker 4: on purpose, but it's also possible that he was just

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Speaker 4: so narcissistic that he couldn't believe that he would be

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Speaker 4: doing anything right. Absolutely, And I don't I don't know,

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Speaker 4: And that's the chap we don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's a chat with narcissists. They believe their own lies.

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Speaker 2: They live in a fantasy land where the rules don't

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Speaker 2: apply to them.

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Speaker 4: So, you know, he did think that he was a

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Speaker 4: good surgeon. I mean up until he heard the testimony

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Speaker 4: in the trial of doctor Lazarre, who was who was

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Speaker 4: an actually good neurosurgeon. And his defense attorney told me

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Speaker 4: that up until he heard that testimony, he actually, you know,

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Speaker 4: thought he was fine. So, but I don't know the

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Speaker 4: answer to that question.

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Speaker 1: I mean, That is just mind boggling to think he

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Speaker 1: thought he was absolutely fine, knowing just how many mistakes

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Speaker 1: were made over his career.

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Speaker 2: Wow, okay, cool, We've got more with Laura Bill right

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Speaker 2: up next, We've got Laura Bial on the phone right now.

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Speaker 2: She's on the show to talk all about her groundbreaking podcast.

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Speaker 2: That's right. She is the maker, the originator of Doctor

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Speaker 2: Death fifty million downloads, obviously now a TV series, Laura

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Speaker 2: of All the Because now we're now in season three

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Speaker 2: of Doctor Death, where you keep finding these charlatans who

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Speaker 2: effectively professed to be medical professions but at the same

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Speaker 2: time obviously either incompetent or just narcissistic and blind. We

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Speaker 2: can't figure that out. But of all the people that

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Speaker 2: you've kind of gone through, all the cases that have

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Speaker 2: happened to all these people, what was the moment where

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Speaker 2: you felt like, wow, we I'm actually you know, reeling

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Speaker 2: in some stuff here, like I've got a big fish

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Speaker 2: on the line, like this is you know, hard for

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Speaker 2: me to process and equally probably going to be really

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Speaker 2: hard for other people to wrap their eyes around. And

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Speaker 2: there he is around for that.

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Speaker 4: Well, it wasn't that long after I started looking into

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Speaker 4: it that I really started to realize that the story

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Speaker 4: really wasn't about Christopher Dunch. It's a story about our

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Speaker 4: healthcare system because there were a lot of people who

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Speaker 4: were complicit along the way and who allowed him to practice,

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Speaker 4: and who didn't, who didn't take his scalpel away and

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Speaker 4: could have. There were people all along the way who

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Speaker 4: could have done more to stop him than they did.

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Speaker 4: But the system is set up to where it makes

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Speaker 4: it really hard because neurosurgeons bring in a lot of

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Speaker 4: money to a hospital, So I think that created a

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Speaker 4: kind of willful ignorance on the part of a lot

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Speaker 4: of institutions.

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Speaker 2: And when you speak, you still doing podcasts on these people,

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Speaker 2: on these doctors that you know, I've got this new guy,

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Speaker 2: miracle Man, which is your new podcast season three, Season

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Speaker 2: three of Doctor Death. Like surely, as I said, fifty

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Speaker 2: million downloads, is a TV show about this thing. Why

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Speaker 2: aren't people more scrupulous about who looks after them? And

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Speaker 2: more importantly, why isn't the system doing something more to

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Speaker 2: wait out these people?

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Speaker 4: Well, I'd like to think that telling these stories has

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Speaker 4: been an instrument for change on sort of a micro level.

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Speaker 4: And I did hear from even one doctor he was

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Speaker 4: an antesthesiologist who actually had to retire. He had to

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Speaker 4: quit his practice because he felt so guilt ridden from

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Speaker 4: doctors that he had seen and not spoken of, like

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Speaker 4: he knew that they were not who knew that they

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Speaker 4: were not.

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Speaker 1: Good To end on a lot of note, Laura, I

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Speaker 1: know that since the premiere of Doctor Death, which is

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Speaker 1: on Stan you were there on the red carpet with

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Speaker 1: Joshua Jackson, Alec Baldwin, Christian Slid. What was that experience?

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Speaker 4: Like it was a little surreal because you know, I'm

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Speaker 4: a journalist type, although I have to say I did

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Speaker 4: pull out my best dress from Target.

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Speaker 2: And was And did you feel like the cast was

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Speaker 2: sufficiently iniquitous to be able to portray the person that

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Speaker 2: you were after in Christopher Dune?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought they. I thought they did a great job.

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Speaker 4: I thought Joshua Jackson in particular, really got Judge's personality.

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Speaker 4: And I think Joshua Jackson did a really good a

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Speaker 4: really good job of kind of capturing balth the you know,

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Speaker 4: the intellect that he had and the kind of charm.

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Speaker 4: Ye also every everything that led to his downfall as well,

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Speaker 4: including his narcissism, his drug use.

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Speaker 1: You know all of that, and he was charming. He

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Speaker 1: talks the talk. His intellect is so high that I mean,

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Speaker 1: you sit there seeing these people, these patients talk to him.

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Speaker 1: You go, if I was that patient, yeah, I would

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Speaker 1: let that person do the surgery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. Laura, it's been a pleasure talking

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Speaker 2: to you. Thank you so much. You can still download

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Speaker 2: Doctor Death obviously the original series were are three seasons

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Speaker 2: now of Doctor Death. These guys continue to exist scarily

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Speaker 2: but also entertainingly. So check it out season three Miracle

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Speaker 2: Man of Dodor Death, or obviously check out Doctor Death

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Speaker 2: on stand with the TV show is streaming at the moment.

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Speaker 2: As we said, Joshua Jacks, Alec bourban h but not

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Speaker 2: Laura Bale in a target dress. You can see her

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Speaker 2: on the red carpet anywhere you like. Actually, look, that's

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Speaker 2: a cracking shot of you at the cast. Laura, thank

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Speaker 2: you so much for joining us. Its been a pleasure

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Speaker 2: and really fascinating and congratulations on you know, a body

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Speaker 2: of work which is truly phenomenal.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Oh, thank you. It's been a pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Here more of your boys on the full show podcast.

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Speaker 2: You know you want to