Speaker 1: This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother, teacher,
Speaker 1: friend missing for twenty six years.
Speaker 2: You know, no sign that she was going to vanish,
Speaker 2: that's for sure.
Speaker 1: The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance, I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: it was intentional or there's something more foul afoot.
Speaker 3: If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say
Speaker 3: little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was
Speaker 3: Marian Barter. What I say, whether you find Marian Barter
Speaker 3: dead or alive, I honestly believe somebody has that key
Speaker 3: piece of information.
Speaker 1: And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.
Speaker 4: Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.
Speaker 1: I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure
Speaker 1: that somebody knows something. The lady vanishes, Episode forty nine.
Speaker 1: I'm aliceon Sandy.
Speaker 5: And I'm Brian Seymour. We're back at Lismore for day two,
Speaker 5: the afternoon session of this three day hearing, the latest
Speaker 5: in the coronial inquest into the disappearance of Marion Barter.
Speaker 5: The questions returned to the evidence of Gilaine du Bois
Speaker 5: d'An lois and again mister Bloom, in a hesitant and
Speaker 5: stuttering voice, rejects everything that is put to him. No,
Speaker 5: he did not suggest that they should marry in Balley
Speaker 5: in two thousand and six. No, he did not tell
Speaker 5: her they would start a new life together in Australia.
Speaker 5: And no, he did not persuade her to withdraw some
Speaker 5: sixty thousand euros.
Speaker 3: Never. No, I know she claimed that, but that never happened.
Speaker 3: I never went to a bank with her, like she said. Never.
Speaker 6: She says that you persuaded her to withdraw sixty thousand euros.
Speaker 6: You deny that.
Speaker 3: Yes, she never gave me a penny. In fact, every
Speaker 3: time I went to her place, oftentimes I bought. I
Speaker 3: bought the food and everything. She never never, never spent
Speaker 3: a penny on me. You got my travel records right.
Speaker 3: I was long gone before she sought her house.
Speaker 6: Well, I was coming to that, mister Blum. Did you
Speaker 6: persuade her to sell her house so you could start
Speaker 6: a new life abroad.
Speaker 3: That's a lie. The reasons she was set in her
Speaker 3: house was because her son's farm burnt out and she
Speaker 3: was going to buy a farm in France. But I
Speaker 3: was long back in Australia when that happened.
Speaker 6: There are some similarities, are there not? Between what Madame
Speaker 6: Danoix has to say in comparison to what genitalg, Jeanette
Speaker 6: Geffney Bowen and Manique Cornelius have said in relation to
Speaker 6: you and them starting a new life.
Speaker 5: Mister Bloom's barrister Matthew White raises an objection, but Coroner Thereensa.
Speaker 5: O'Sullivan dismisses it, allowing mister Caunselton to repeat his question,
Speaker 5: which he does.
Speaker 6: Will you agree with me that there are similarities between
Speaker 6: what you said to Madame Danois about starting a new
Speaker 6: life together in comparison to what Janet Oldenburg, Jeanette Gefney
Speaker 6: Bowen and Benique Cornelius have said about you saying to
Speaker 6: them let's start a new life together.
Speaker 3: I can't remember what happened. Explain to It's like a
Speaker 3: disc who slips in my head. I I have terrible headaches,
Speaker 3: don't remember.
Speaker 6: Do you remember accurately helping Madame Danois pack some trunks
Speaker 6: of her belongings to ship them to Australia.
Speaker 3: In a statement at one stage she said one trunk
Speaker 3: and I don't know the statement and she see two trunks.
Speaker 3: I flew back home with only the suitcases. I didn't
Speaker 3: take any trunks.
Speaker 6: When you commenced your romantic relationship with Marion Barter in
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety seven, it.
Speaker 3: Was an romantic She's a one who proposed itwas never romantic.
Speaker 6: You've admitted a sexual relationship with Marion Barter in nineteen
Speaker 6: ninety seven, mister Blum.
Speaker 3: Yes, but that doesn't mean it was romantic.
Speaker 5: Here the coroner intervenes to settle the distinction. Mister Bloom
Speaker 5: seems to be making.
Speaker 2: Let's call it sexual.
Speaker 6: I'm happy to do that. When you commenced your sexual
Speaker 6: relationship with Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven, did you
Speaker 6: seek to persuade her to sell her house?
Speaker 3: No, no, no no.
Speaker 6: And did you seek to persuade her to sell her
Speaker 6: house so that the two of you could start a
Speaker 6: new life together in Europe?
Speaker 3: No, no, no.
Speaker 6: And did you suggest to Marion Barter in nineteen ninety
Speaker 6: seven that she should resign from her job as a
Speaker 6: teacher on the Gold Coast and to open up a
Speaker 6: school in Europe.
Speaker 3: That's something she said that she will do.
Speaker 6: But did you undergo a ceremony of sorts with Marion
Speaker 6: Barter in Europe, where she may believe she was married.
Speaker 3: How can you organize that? In Europe? You produce alls
Speaker 3: birth certificate and all your You've got published bands for
Speaker 3: the marry. You can't just get married like that.
Speaker 6: Did you promise Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven that
Speaker 6: the two of you should marry abroad?
Speaker 3: No? No, no, I saw her as three times in my.
Speaker 6: Life, perhaps four, mister Blum, correct, excluding nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 3: No. I think I saw her and stayed at the
Speaker 3: house once, and I saw her on two other days.
Speaker 3: And that day she drove me to the best depot
Speaker 3: and I returned home. I didn't stay the night.
Speaker 6: And of course you saw her at your place at Wollongbar. Sorry,
Speaker 6: you also saw her at your place at Wollongba just
Speaker 6: outside of Lismore on the road.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, when she when she brought when, no, she
Speaker 3: didn't come. It was a man. It was a little
Speaker 3: man who came in and delivered. And then I saw her.
Speaker 3: I think she came when she came with another person
Speaker 3: to pick up the boxes.
Speaker 6: Did you promise Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven that
Speaker 6: you would start a new life together?
Speaker 3: In BALI No, sir, no, why why would I?
Speaker 5: Mister counselten suggests a morning adjournment.
Speaker 1: During the breaking proceedings. I chat to some of the
Speaker 1: people who've turned up to watch. So this is She's
Speaker 1: been following the podcast since the beginning and lives less
Speaker 1: than an hour away in Mullumbimbi.
Speaker 4: It's fascinating being here in person. It's just made it
Speaker 4: all feel very real. It's interesting to see him in person,
Speaker 4: and I feel very emotional and very just stressed actually
Speaker 4: listening to him talk and thinking about Marian and what
Speaker 4: may or may not have happened to her.
Speaker 1: What do you think about him? Like, are you buying
Speaker 1: this whole?
Speaker 5: Not at all.
Speaker 4: I think he's just a complete liar, and I don't
Speaker 4: believe a word of what he's saying. And I think
Speaker 4: that he's proven himself to be a complete opportunist and
Speaker 4: corn artist, and so I don't know how anyone can
Speaker 4: believe what he's anything that he's saying. It's all seems
Speaker 4: like lies to me. And when he talks, it seems
Speaker 4: like he's, you know, using a speech pattern to buy
Speaker 4: time and to avoid and I could just see right
Speaker 4: through all of it. The way that things have unfolded
Speaker 4: during the course of and because of this podcast has
Speaker 4: just been so incredible and gripping.
Speaker 1: After the break, the evidence of the woman we know
Speaker 1: as Charlotte is raised. A statement she made to Belgium
Speaker 1: police in twenty twelve has been tended to the court.
Speaker 1: She won't be giving evidence in person because she wants
Speaker 1: to keep her name private. We're continuing to use the pseudonym.
Speaker 1: Although her true identity is revealed in court. We can
Speaker 1: say that she is the wife of Rick Blum's deceased cousin.
Speaker 1: Mister Cassadin puts to mister Blum that he traveled to
Speaker 1: Belgium in February twenty twelve to meet with Charlotte, and
Speaker 1: that they later traveled together to Bali. Several questions and
Speaker 1: mister Blum's responses are always rambling and full of stuttering
Speaker 1: and bumbling. He mentions an inheritance from his mother and
Speaker 1: how somehow his cousin, a banker, was involved. He accepts
Speaker 1: that he did not go to his cousin's funeral in
Speaker 1: July twenty eleven, but did travel to Belgium just seven
Speaker 1: months later to see his cousin's grieving widow, a woman
Speaker 1: he had only seen once in the previous twenty years,
Speaker 1: at an aunt's funeral.
Speaker 6: Is it true, mister Blum, that shortly after your cousin
Speaker 6: passed that you contacted his widow by telephone?
Speaker 3: It was was regarding the money of my mother that
Speaker 3: was left with her hostpan.
Speaker 6: Did you disclose to Charlotte and your conversations leading up
Speaker 6: to your visit in February twenty twelve that you were
Speaker 6: married to Diane?
Speaker 3: She knew she knew that.
Speaker 1: Charlotte most definitely, by her account, did not know that
Speaker 1: he was married. Mister Blum also denies that he went
Speaker 1: to Belgium in early twenty twelve with the intent to
Speaker 1: seduce his cousin's widow, nor did he agree with suggestions
Speaker 1: that he persuaded her to withdraw one hundred thousand euro
Speaker 1: so they could buy a property in Bali together. Instead,
Speaker 1: he claims that Charlotte had at least six or seven properties.
Speaker 1: Then he thought that perhaps she could consider returning the
Speaker 1: money left by his mother.
Speaker 6: Now you say you had no intentions of seducing Charlotte
Speaker 6: in February or March of twenty twelve, do you, mister Blum?
Speaker 3: Oh? Or No.
Speaker 6: Did you say to Charlotte that you would buy a
Speaker 6: house in Indonesia together for the two of you to
Speaker 6: live together.
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 6: Why did you go to Bali with Charlotte?
Speaker 3: Because because the airline have an offer from Amsterdam and
Speaker 3: she was interesting people everyone talked of Buddy and she
Speaker 3: says you wanted to go and see the place.
Speaker 6: Had you been to Bali prior to twenty twelve?
Speaker 3: Yes, I went there to Buddy before.
Speaker 6: On How many occasions had you been to Bali prior
Speaker 6: to twenty twelve?
Speaker 3: Two or three times?
Speaker 6: One with Janet Oldenburg? Correct?
Speaker 3: Yes, correct in.
Speaker 6: Nineteen ninety nine, once in twenty eleven for a wedding. Correct, Yes,
Speaker 6: What other times have you been to Balley? Mister Blum?
Speaker 3: I went to Bali earlier once twice I went there
Speaker 3: for a holiday.
Speaker 6: Did you own property in Bali?
Speaker 3: Never have?
Speaker 6: In twenty twelve, did you tell Charlotte that you owned
Speaker 6: property in Bali?
Speaker 3: No? Why would I do that?
Speaker 6: You say you didn't.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 6: Did you persuade Charlotte to withdraw one hundred thousand euros
Speaker 6: from her accounts in Belgium? I did in order to
Speaker 6: purchase a property in Bali with.
Speaker 3: You I didn't personally ask for anything. I just said
Speaker 3: that I have that receipt from her husband and that
Speaker 3: I would have liked maybe she would deposit, considering that
Speaker 3: she had I don't know, at least six or seven properties.
Speaker 3: Considering all that that she could be annoyed that she knew,
Speaker 3: but the letter of her husband that she would probably
Speaker 3: maybe consider give me back the money of my mother.
Speaker 6: Did Charlotte give you any money in February or March
Speaker 6: twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: When we departed, she said she had the money for me,
Speaker 3: So I took that she she they were safe in
Speaker 3: the room of the hotel, and she put all of
Speaker 3: her precious things and the money in the safe and
Speaker 3: she was the only one with the access to whatever
Speaker 3: number it was to get to it.
Speaker 6: And was this a safe in the hotel room in Bali?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 6: And how much money did you understand was in this
Speaker 6: safe in the hotel?
Speaker 3: I understood she had one hundred thousand.
Speaker 6: Dollars one hundred thousand euros.
Speaker 3: One hundred thousand yeah, in Bali? Yeah?
Speaker 6: And did she give you that one hundred thousand euros?
Speaker 6: Because of the issue you've just given evidence about relating
Speaker 6: to and perhaps the Sun.
Speaker 3: No, she gave me an envelope when I was leaving,
Speaker 3: and I realized it was only half because only fifty
Speaker 3: thousand euros, I was not so happy about it. It's
Speaker 3: only after I let that I realized that it was
Speaker 3: only half the money. The money that I declare at
Speaker 3: perse airport when I arrived and was stolen from me
Speaker 3: later on the gold course when I went to change it.
Speaker 6: Just so I'm very clear, mister Blum, you accept that
Speaker 6: Charlotte gave you fifty thousand euros and that you entered
Speaker 6: Australia with fifty thousand euros exactly? Would you agree with me?
Speaker 6: For you, at least fifty thousand euros is a substantial
Speaker 6: sum of money.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 6: Do you understand why it was? She did not transfer
Speaker 6: that sum of money to your bank account?
Speaker 3: Which bank?
Speaker 6: The bank account you held with the Commonwealth Bank in
Speaker 6: twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: No, she I don't know. She went to her bank
Speaker 3: withdrew the money. That's what she told me, and she
Speaker 3: told me to give me, But in fact I was
Speaker 3: only given a novelope with fifty thousand euros.
Speaker 6: Do you know why she felt the need to travel
Speaker 6: from Belgium to Bali with such a substantial amount of
Speaker 6: money instead of just transferring it to you from Belgium
Speaker 6: to your account in Australia.
Speaker 3: I know that was the way she did it. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 6: Could it be, mister Blam.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's because she already thought of giving me fifty
Speaker 3: thousand euro and therefore she didn't want to declare the bank. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 6: Could it be, mister Blum, that you suggested to Charlotte
Speaker 6: that she withdraw one hundred thousand euros from her account
Speaker 6: in Belgium and to take it to Bali to purchase
Speaker 6: a property.
Speaker 5: No, no, mister Bloom appears to have very good recall
Speaker 5: for what he says he did and did not do.
Speaker 5: Mister Castleton questions him about the twenty five thousand euros
Speaker 5: worth of jewelry Charlotte says he took from her, which
Speaker 5: he denies. Despite being owed one hundred thousand euros, Mister
Speaker 5: Bloom says he accepted fifty thousand euros in cash in
Speaker 5: an envelope, which was then stolen from him at Pacific
Speaker 5: Fair shopping center on the Gold Coast, where he planned
Speaker 5: to change the euros to Australian dollars. When reporting the
Speaker 5: alleged twenty twelve robbery to police, mister Bloom told them
Speaker 5: his family in Europe gave him the money for a
Speaker 5: prostrate operation. That is confusing, the same fifty thousand euros,
Speaker 5: according to mister Bloom, seems to have had several different purposes.
Speaker 6: Now you've given three versions, mister Blum, about the fifty
Speaker 6: thousand euros you declared on a rival to Perth on
Speaker 6: the twenty ninth of March twenty twelve. First you say
Speaker 6: on oath it's an inheritance. Secondly you say on oath
Speaker 6: today it was the compensation owed to you by your
Speaker 6: cousin and perhaps his son. And you have given a
Speaker 6: version to Queensland Police that it was for a prostate operation.
Speaker 6: Mister Blum, which of the three is correct?
Speaker 3: I object?
Speaker 5: Matthew White, the barrister representing mister Bloom, raises another objection.
Speaker 6: Your honor.
Speaker 7: The evidence today, in my submission, was that it was
Speaker 7: an inheritance. It wasn't compensation, and it wasn't owed by someone.
Speaker 7: It was money that had been invested, mister Blum said,
Speaker 7: by the mother. There was a receipt for the money
Speaker 7: he gave. That receipt and in discussions in some form
Speaker 7: it was suggested that she consider that he be given
Speaker 7: some of that inheritance, and he said he eventually got
Speaker 7: the fifty thousand euro In balley, mister Counslon makes the
Speaker 7: point that he is only putting to mister Bloom what
Speaker 7: he has previously said.
Speaker 5: When Bloom responds, he says that maybe there is a
Speaker 5: misunderstanding over the meaning of the French word compensasson. Yet
Speaker 5: there is a separate word in French for inheritance, les detage.
Speaker 5: Mister Castleeden then points out that mister Bloom's wife, Diane,
Speaker 5: gave evidence under oath that she was completely unaware of
Speaker 5: any inheritance for her husband. As the afternoon wears on,
Speaker 5: so does mister Casseleden, turning to mister Bloom's relationship with
Speaker 5: Glaine Dubois d'An lois in two thousand and six, did
Speaker 5: you have.
Speaker 6: Any discussions with Jelaine of getting engaged or getting married,
Speaker 6: mister Blum. No, no discussions whatsoever of being engaged to marry.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 6: And you're quite certain of that today that you never
Speaker 6: discussed engagement with Jelaine d'An noises. You'll need to keep
Speaker 6: your voice up, please, mister Blum.
Speaker 3: I don't remember this. No.
Speaker 6: I want to suggest to you that you would remember that,
Speaker 6: wouldn't you, because you were married to Diane at the time.
Speaker 6: I want to show you a document, please, mister Blum.
Speaker 6: You can read French. Yes, take a moment to read
Speaker 6: quietly to yourself the document I have opened for you.
Speaker 5: It is the document Allison provided to police the previous
Speaker 5: day when they took a statement from her.
Speaker 6: And you see there it's a document that says, Julaane Danois.
Speaker 6: You see that at the top and do you see
Speaker 6: the next line is very happy to announce her engagement
Speaker 6: to Frederic D'HEADEVERI do you see that? Do you see that?
Speaker 6: Mister Blum?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, rather suggests, does it not that Julaine Danois
Speaker 6: thought she was engaged to Frederic D'HEADAVERI correct.
Speaker 3: I can't injudice, Yes, but I never seen that.
Speaker 6: And I want to suggest to you that Julaane Danois
Speaker 6: provided that document recently, and then it has been provided
Speaker 6: to those assisting her honor today. Yes, were you engaged
Speaker 6: to be married to Julaane Danois in two thousand and six?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 6: I want to suggest to you you were, mister Blum,
Speaker 6: and that your denials are alie.
Speaker 3: No, I've never seen that notice.
Speaker 6: Did you have any discussions in May and June of
Speaker 6: two thousand and six with Julaine Danoix as to where
Speaker 6: you may hold an engagement party? No, so you're very clear,
Speaker 6: mister Blum. I'm suggesting that your evidence today of denying
Speaker 6: having any discussions with Julaane Danois about engagement to marry
Speaker 6: are false.
Speaker 3: Yes, you agree with me. Do you never seen that?
Speaker 3: I've never participated or anything of that. That's all. That's
Speaker 3: all I know. I don't remember such a thing, never
Speaker 3: seen it.
Speaker 6: Never could you have been caught out in a lie,
Speaker 6: mister Blum, about your denials of being engaged to marry
Speaker 6: Julaane Danoix.
Speaker 3: I was never engaged. How could I be engaged? I
Speaker 3: was never never engaged. I was never never engaged.
Speaker 6: Were you engaged to Florabella Remichel in nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 6: mister Blum?
Speaker 3: No? No.
Speaker 6: Now is the time for you to be full and
Speaker 6: frank about your interactions with Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 6: Is there anything you wish to say that you have
Speaker 6: not already said in relation to the disappearance of Marian Barter.
Speaker 3: What what could I You.
Speaker 6: Don't know what became of Marion Barter.
Speaker 3: I myself believe that she's still alive, but I don't
Speaker 3: know anything about where she is, or abouts or nothing
Speaker 3: at all.
Speaker 6: Your honor. That concludes my examination.
Speaker 5: Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan has some of her own questions.
Speaker 2: Thank you, mister Castle and mister Bloom. Why do you
Speaker 2: believe Marian is still alive.
Speaker 3: Because she I can't tell you exactly when. But in
Speaker 3: a conversation before she went to England, she said that
Speaker 3: she wanted to separate from her family. She didn't want
Speaker 3: anything to do with any mum of her family. She
Speaker 3: was a bit of a strange person, all right.
Speaker 2: Can I just ask you where you were when she
Speaker 2: said that to you?
Speaker 3: When she said that to me, it was in her place.
Speaker 2: In her house, in her house, yes, whereabouts?
Speaker 3: Was that in Queensland? Our country? Remember the name of
Speaker 3: the suburb. She said she had enough of her family
Speaker 3: and she didn't want she she was. I explained to
Speaker 3: mister White before that she was strange in a way,
Speaker 3: that whatever she did, he was strange in the way
Speaker 3: she dressed, She was strange.
Speaker 5: Again the coroner inter.
Speaker 2: Runs'll cut you off there, mister Bloom. It's not really
Speaker 2: assisting in what I need to find out.
Speaker 1: That brief interchange may prove crucial, as you will soon hear.
Speaker 1: It's now the of Sally Leyden's barrister Bradley Smith, to
Speaker 1: ask mister Blum a few questions. Mister Smith is not
Speaker 1: in the court at Lismore. He's in his office in Sydney,
Speaker 1: appearing via video link.
Speaker 8: At any point in two thousand and six, did you
Speaker 8: have any interest in poisons.
Speaker 3: As you know, I was interested in poison. No, no,
Speaker 3: not in poison. I don't know anything about poison, and
Speaker 3: all I know is like everybody else has a domestic poison.
Speaker 3: But my interest are always reading that history history, yes,
Speaker 3: but poisoned no well.
Speaker 8: Glaine Danoix gave evidence yesterday that in two thousand and
Speaker 8: six you would often discuss with her your interest in poisons.
Speaker 8: Do you say that was false?
Speaker 3: It's a lie. Yes.
Speaker 8: Also got evidence yesterday that you persuaded her to withdraw
Speaker 8: funds from her bank account, and then on each OC
Speaker 8: case and she did withdraw funds, you attended the bank
Speaker 8: with her. That's true. Isn't it.
Speaker 3: Never been in a bank with her? Never? Never?
Speaker 8: Is that an almost answer, mister Bloom?
Speaker 3: Sorry?
Speaker 8: Is that an almost answer, mister Bloom.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's an honest answer. The only place I went
Speaker 3: when we there was what they call an agance. That's
Speaker 3: the only place.
Speaker 8: Given in a currency exchange bureau.
Speaker 3: No argance. It is somebody that you invest money in
Speaker 3: in shares. It's not actually cash involved, it's all paper.
Speaker 3: You can't do anything banking without any record at the bank,
Speaker 3: especially in Europe there, whatever you do with the bank,
Speaker 3: you got to be able to justify with your V
Speaker 3: eighteen number and whatever.
Speaker 8: What would you go to a share writeing with Gelaine Demoi?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I went there because she told me that's what
Speaker 3: she was. I wanted to go with her, but I
Speaker 3: didn't participate in anything. She just told me towards agen,
Speaker 3: that's all.
Speaker 8: So you stayed at that house for how long I stayed.
Speaker 3: At her house About roughly a fortnight, But I was
Speaker 3: staying the university. I only was visiting her, and I
Speaker 3: stayed there a few days.
Speaker 8: And on one of those few days when you visited her,
Speaker 8: she said she was going to a share agent and
Speaker 8: you went with her. Is that your evidence?
Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 8: Why did she ask you to go with her?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 8: Why did she ask you to go with her?
Speaker 3: I don't know. She just you know, you got for
Speaker 3: a coffee or whatever. I just I just went with her.
Speaker 3: But there's no transaction possible there or.
Speaker 8: Was the name of the share agent Damien and sons
Speaker 8: don't remember? And you didn't go to the share agent
Speaker 8: with miss Daranoix because you had persuaded her to exchange
Speaker 8: shares that she owned for cash.
Speaker 3: You can't do that. You can't, so regulations set up
Speaker 3: there in brassets you can't do that.
Speaker 8: So the answer is no. Sorry is the answer?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: No, Yes, you can't do that.
Speaker 8: And it's correct. Isn't it that you suggested to miss
Speaker 8: dear Noir that she should apply for an international driver's
Speaker 8: license before moving to Australia with you?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 8: Well, in two thousand and six, you are familiar with
Speaker 8: international driver's licenses, weren't you? Sorry, in two thousand and six,
Speaker 8: you were familiar with international driver's licenses, weren't you?
Speaker 3: All I knew is to get an international driver's license.
Speaker 3: I got every time I left Australia, I took the
Speaker 3: I went to the on NRM and got an international
Speaker 3: driver's license. That's what people do.
Speaker 8: And you'd agree with me. You've left Australia numerous times,
Speaker 8: haven't you. Yes, So you've applied for an international driver's
Speaker 8: license numerous times.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 8: So you were very familiar in two thousand and six
Speaker 8: with international driver's licenses.
Speaker 3: Weren't you in Australia.
Speaker 8: Well, it's the isn't it that you obtained an international
Speaker 8: driver's license in the name of Fernande Ramakal in Luxembourg? Correct? Yes,
Speaker 8: And that was a false international driver's license. Correct.
Speaker 3: Well, I've just been this. It's it's not government, it's
Speaker 3: not an official thing. It's done by by autokler.
Speaker 8: But you weren't Fernande Ramacal when you applied for that
Speaker 8: international driver's license.
Speaker 6: Were you?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Yes, you use Fernande Ramakall's identity to obtain that international
Speaker 8: driver's license correct, Yes, and then you use the international
Speaker 8: driver's license to obtain a Queensland driver's license in that
Speaker 8: name correct, correct. So, and you did those things prior
Speaker 8: to two thousand and six.
Speaker 3: Correct, don't remember.
Speaker 8: I want to suggest to you that again, in light
Speaker 8: of what we've just discussed, that you suggested to Glain
Speaker 8: Dan Why in two thousand and six that she should
Speaker 8: obtain an international driver's license before moving to Australia with you,
Speaker 8: Do you agree No?
Speaker 3: I never discussed driver's license with Gilen.
Speaker 8: And I want to suggest to you that you also
Speaker 8: persuaded Marian Barter to apply for an international driver's license
Speaker 8: in the name Flora Bella Natalia Marion Ramicol in nineteen
Speaker 8: ninety seven.
Speaker 3: Do you agree No, she organized that with her dentist.
Speaker 5: Pausing briefly here, we first told you in episode fourteen
Speaker 5: that Marian had a dentist confirm her photograph ID for
Speaker 5: her passport application, but we didn't know that this same
Speaker 5: dentist was also asked by Marion to affirm her international
Speaker 5: driver's license. This is apparently new information we're hearing for
Speaker 5: the first time. What else might mister Bloom reveal?
Speaker 8: But at the same time she did that in nineteen
Speaker 8: ninety seven, you had a Queensland driver's license in the
Speaker 8: name Fernande Knocholas Ramacol. Correct.
Speaker 3: Yes, I had four setain time until it disappeared. It
Speaker 3: was stolen from me or I lost it. I don't know,
Speaker 3: because in the previous time I can't remember if it's
Speaker 3: in Ballina or barron By. I who repeats a question, Please.
Speaker 5: Let's hear that again.
Speaker 3: It was stolen from me or I lost it. I
Speaker 3: don't know because in the previous time I can't remember
Speaker 3: if it's in Ballina or Barron Bay. I one more time,
Speaker 3: because in the previous time, I can't remember if it's
Speaker 3: in Ballina or Barron By.
Speaker 5: I, Ballena or Byron Bay. Rick Bloom lives in Ballina.
Speaker 5: When he was in a relationship with Marion in nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety seven, he lived at Wollongba. Marion lived at Southport.
Speaker 5: He claims they met up on the Gold Coast. We've
Speaker 5: identified fifteen different places that mister Bloom has lived in
Speaker 5: in Australia in four states. He has not lived in
Speaker 5: or ever mentioned visiting Byron Bay. It's interesting too that
Speaker 5: he would mention it during this line of questioning. Marian
Speaker 5: was reported missing in Byron Bay after her daughter Sally,
Speaker 5: discovered her life's savings were being withdrawn from her bank
Speaker 5: account in Byron Bay, including a final large withdrawal of
Speaker 5: eighty thousand dollars. For such a transaction, she would have
Speaker 5: needed identification. Her account was in the name Marion Barter,
Speaker 5: but her new legal name was Florabella Remichel. If there
Speaker 5: was any potential confusion over the new identity, Marian had
Speaker 5: both a passport and an international driver's license in her
Speaker 5: new name with her photo and or signature. We know
Speaker 5: she had a driver's license when she applied for her
Speaker 5: new passport because she ticked the box for ID documents
Speaker 5: and wrote int license. So was Rick Bloom in Byron
Speaker 5: Bay Was what he just said a misstep? Did he
Speaker 5: simply make a mistake or did he just inadvertently reveal
Speaker 5: a crucial piece of evidence? Now mister Smith turns to
Speaker 5: another perplexing Mistruth. Mister Bloom has committed to the official record.
Speaker 8: Do you see there an incoming passenger card, mister Bloom?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 8: And you see in the bottom half of the right
Speaker 8: hand side the letters see inside a black circle resident
Speaker 8: returning to Australia. Yes, and then the country you spent
Speaker 8: most time abroad? Do you see that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Do you agree you filled out this card?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 8: And you see the date twenty ninth of March twenty
Speaker 8: twelve what it says, yes, which is the date I
Speaker 8: was just putting to you earlier. Yes, and you see
Speaker 8: that you wrote the country where you spent most time
Speaker 8: abroad as Germany.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 8: Now, if you spend your time in Belgium and France,
Speaker 8: what did you write on this card? It spent most
Speaker 8: of your time in Germany.
Speaker 3: Where I spent some time in Germany, yes, but I
Speaker 3: can't remember.
Speaker 8: Well, do you remember I asked you before? Did you
Speaker 8: spend time in any other countries?
Speaker 3: But I went to Germany because I had to catch
Speaker 3: my flight to return home. I spent time in Liege,
Speaker 3: which is a city in Belgium, and from there I
Speaker 3: took the trend to Frankfurt, where I caught my flag
Speaker 3: back home.
Speaker 8: Do you agree that that doesn't explain why you've written
Speaker 8: that you spend most of your time abroad in Germany.
Speaker 3: Well, I can't give you an explanation. It's the explanation
Speaker 3: spend time in Belgium. I spent time in Germany, Yes,
Speaker 3: I did. What's so special about.
Speaker 8: It's the explanation that you had to fall of one
Speaker 8: hundred thousand euros and you were a tempting to cover
Speaker 8: your tracks by not stating that you'd spend most of
Speaker 8: your time in Belgium.
Speaker 3: I spend time because I have people to see, my family,
Speaker 3: to see her. I spend time in the various places.
Speaker 1: What was what?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't understand.
Speaker 5: Throughout this inquest, Salley's lawyer Brad Smith has raised some
Speaker 5: crucial points through his questions and he's about to do
Speaker 5: it again.
Speaker 8: At the time Marion Barter applied for an international driver's
Speaker 8: license in the name Flora Bella Natalia Marion Remaco in
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety seven, you had a Queensland driver's license in
Speaker 8: the name Fernande Knoculus Remaco.
Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, and that was stolen from me. I never
Speaker 3: never used it. That was in my pocket and it
Speaker 3: was I don't know what was tolen or I lost it.
Speaker 8: I want to suggest to you, but.
Speaker 3: With what happened, I believe that she took it because license.
Speaker 3: If I remember from last time, the license was renewed
Speaker 3: and I never never renew it.
Speaker 8: I want to suggest to you that you've persuaded Marian
Speaker 8: Bartered to apply for that international driver's license on the
Speaker 8: pretext that she would become Missus Ramacal in your new
Speaker 8: life together overseas.
Speaker 3: Do you agree, No, sir, she arranged all these things
Speaker 3: were arranged with her dentist which I never met.
Speaker 8: And is it correct that you just to put to
Speaker 8: you squarely the evidence you've just given that Marian took
Speaker 8: your Queensland driver's license in the name Fernande Naculist Ramical
Speaker 8: and arranged her international driver's license with a dentist without
Speaker 8: your knowledge is a lie?
Speaker 3: No, it's not.
Speaker 8: Is it correct that you last saw Gelaine dear Nois
Speaker 8: in September two thousand and six.
Speaker 3: Yes, I can't remember, she.
Speaker 8: Says, the last time she saw you was in September
Speaker 8: two thousand and six. Does that sound right to you?
Speaker 3: It may be the case, but I don't remember, and
Speaker 3: you accept it. I think I answered the question already
Speaker 3: to mister Castleton.
Speaker 8: Yes, what you accepted from mister Castleton was that you
Speaker 8: returned to Australia on the fourteenth of September two thousand
Speaker 8: and six.
Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, And.
Speaker 8: I want you to assume for me that your incoming
Speaker 8: passenger car when you return to Australia on the fourteenth
Speaker 8: of September two thousand and six. The answer to the
Speaker 8: question are you bringing into Australia ten thousand dollars or
Speaker 8: more in Australian or foreign currency equivalent. You circled yes.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 8: I want to suggest to you that the more than
Speaker 8: ten thousand Australian dollars or equivalent of cash that you
Speaker 8: were bringing into Australia was money you had stolen from
Speaker 8: Gallain dan Mois. No, no, no, where was the more
Speaker 8: than ten thousand dollars you brought back into Australia on
Speaker 8: the fourteenth of September two thousand and six from.
Speaker 3: Because from my family every time, every time I came
Speaker 3: back to Australia, always hard to set an amount of
Speaker 3: money coming from my family, but I never always always
Speaker 3: declare every everything, always.
Speaker 8: Well, you accepted. In April last year, I said to you,
Speaker 8: is your evidence that you were collecting about one thousand
Speaker 8: Australian dollars from the account at Ahman in Europe? And
Speaker 8: you said, I said before, I sometimes take more. Yes,
Speaker 8: And I said, but on average, And you said on
Speaker 8: average on average. I remember that I declared in Sydney
Speaker 8: once seventeen thousand dollars. And I remember that I declared
Speaker 8: in Perth once, No, seventeen thousand euros, sorry, And I
Speaker 8: declared once in Perth fifty thousand euros, I think. And
Speaker 8: that was the last bit of my inheritance. Do you
Speaker 8: say to her honor that these funds you declared in
Speaker 8: September two thousand and six were part of your inheritance?
Speaker 3: Yes, that's all it was. Is that true, mister Blom, Yes,
Speaker 3: it is true. I was fortunate.
Speaker 8: And did you open a safety deposit box at the
Speaker 8: Commonwealth Bank six days later? On the twenty eighth of
Speaker 8: September two thousand and six.
Speaker 3: I can't remembers date. At the common Worst Bank, I
Speaker 3: had a number up with because there were lots of like,
Speaker 3: there were lots of people stealing things. And I have
Speaker 3: an envelope which with the title of the house, the
Speaker 3: thejurary of my family, and a few mementos, and an
Speaker 3: envelope that was about twelve to fifteen centimeters wide and
Speaker 3: probably twenty centimeters long. You can't put a lot of
Speaker 3: things in. And because I had that envelope, and later
Speaker 3: on a security box or whatever you call it become
Speaker 3: available and I was given to me.
Speaker 8: I want to suggest to you that you opened a
Speaker 8: safety deposit box or the Commonwealth Bank six days after
Speaker 8: you return from the trip where you spent time with
Speaker 8: Galine to deposit money. You would stolen. Do you agree?
Speaker 3: And how do you go through? You are at the
Speaker 3: airport and you're going in one of those cabin where
Speaker 3: everything is you you photograph it. You go in one
Speaker 3: of the scanners. And if I had anything that I
Speaker 3: didn't declare, then now I'd be reported. You can't be
Speaker 3: you can't. I don't know how you travel, but you
Speaker 3: can't come to Australia these days with going it's an
Speaker 3: automatic cabin that you walk in and they know everything
Speaker 3: you've got on you. I don't know if you're familiar
Speaker 3: with the process, but that's the way it is, and
Speaker 3: that's the way I arrived in purse and I declare,
Speaker 3: declare the money I had, because you can't do otherwise.
Speaker 3: They know before even you declare, they know you've got it.
Speaker 5: After almost five hours, the day is drawing to a close.
Speaker 5: Mister Smith turns his attention to Marion Barter.
Speaker 8: Arising from the evidence of Gelaine dar Noi that you
Speaker 8: persuaded her to withdraw money from her bank account and
Speaker 8: the evidence of that you persuade had her to withdraw
Speaker 8: money from her bank account. Did you persuade Marian Barter
Speaker 8: to withdraw funds from her bank account? Between August and
Speaker 8: October nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 3: No, sir, never had a penny from Marion Barter.
Speaker 8: Never did you persuade her to withdraw eighty thousand dollars
Speaker 8: from her bank account on or about the fifteenth of
Speaker 8: October nineteen ninety seven in Barron Bay. No, sir, in
Speaker 8: the period August to October nineteen ninety seven, did you
Speaker 8: deceive Marian Barter in any way for your own financial advantage?
Speaker 3: Sir?
Speaker 8: When you gave evidence earlier that Marian told you she
Speaker 8: wanted to separate from her family, that was a lie,
Speaker 8: wasn't it, sir? And you agree with me. You've been
Speaker 8: asked on a number of occasions previously in this inquest
Speaker 8: if you know what happened to Marian Barter.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 8: And you never before today said anything to that effect
Speaker 8: that she wanted to separate from her family in answer
Speaker 8: to any of these questions, did.
Speaker 3: You, because that's the conversation she had.
Speaker 8: Thank you, your honor, No further questions.
Speaker 5: Mister Smith has hit upon a crucial point which the
Speaker 5: other lawyers in the court will soon grasp. It is
Speaker 5: the end of day two. Rick Bloom has one more
Speaker 5: day before the Coroner.
Speaker 1: It's another crisp winter's morning in Lismore as people again
Speaker 1: packed the public gallery at the local Court for day
Speaker 1: three of this tranch of proceedings. At ten am, hundreds
Speaker 1: of people are waiting online for live streaming to begin
Speaker 1: for what's expected to be the final day of evidence,
Speaker 1: although of course we've heard that before this time. Rick
Speaker 1: Blum appears via video link, seated beside his council Matthew White.
Speaker 1: He's wearing a zipped up tracksuit jacket gray and blue
Speaker 1: with a white stripe. While he looks tired, he appears
Speaker 1: more comfortable than he did yesterday when he was seated
Speaker 1: in the witness stand in the courtroom. Questioning begins with
Speaker 1: Adam Caussenden taking up point raised two days earlier by
Speaker 1: witness Andre Flumm. She'd said, mister Blum or she knew
Speaker 1: him Frederic de Heniveri maintained a bank account in Belgium
Speaker 1: when she knew him in twenty ten. Mister Blum responded
Speaker 1: to a series of questions with a lot of stumbling
Speaker 1: and stuttering. It's a very drawn out process, but ultimately
Speaker 1: he denies any suggestion that he had held any bank
Speaker 1: account in any part of Europe since around nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 6: I want to come now to some evidence you gave
Speaker 6: yesterday in answer to a question from Her Honor.
Speaker 5: Suddenly the reporters and people in the public gallery are attentive,
Speaker 5: as though they can tell there is something important about
Speaker 5: to be raised.
Speaker 6: At the conclusion of my examination of you yesterday, I
Speaker 6: asked you this question, mister Blum, would you like to
Speaker 6: say anything further in relation to the disappearance of Marian Barter?
Speaker 6: And you answered no, what could I say? I then
Speaker 6: asked you you don't know what became of Marion Barter,
Speaker 6: and you answered, I, myself believe that she's still alive.
Speaker 6: That's what I believe. But I don't know anything about
Speaker 6: what she did, or whereabouts, or nothing at all. Then
Speaker 6: Her Honor asked you, mister Blum, why do you believe
Speaker 6: Marian is still alive, to which you answered because she
Speaker 6: I can't tell you exactly when. But and in a
Speaker 6: conversation before she went to England, she said that she
Speaker 6: wants to separate from her family. She didn't want anything
Speaker 6: to do with any member of her family. She was
Speaker 6: a bit of a strange person, to which Her Honor
Speaker 6: then asked you. Can I ask you where were you
Speaker 6: when she said that to you? You answered, when she
Speaker 6: said that to me, it was in her place. Her
Speaker 6: honor then asked you in her house? You responded yeah,
Speaker 6: And then her honor asked you whereabouts?
Speaker 1: Was that?
Speaker 6: You then respond in Queensland. I can't remember the name
Speaker 6: of the suburb. But she said that she's had enough
Speaker 6: of her family. Do you remember giving that evidence yesterday,
Speaker 6: mister Blum.
Speaker 5: Mister Bloom does remember giving that evidence. So Adam Casselton
Speaker 5: probes further.
Speaker 6: Can I ask you, are you able to give more
Speaker 6: detail about which visit you had with Marion in nineteen
Speaker 6: ninety seven when she said those matters to you? Was
Speaker 6: it the first occasion you met with her in Southport,
Speaker 6: the second occasion there in Southport or the third occasion
Speaker 6: that you met with her?
Speaker 3: I can't remember.
Speaker 6: And are you sure that she said those words to
Speaker 6: you in Queensland or could it have been to you
Speaker 6: here in New South Wales?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: No, No, it was it was It was in Queensland.
Speaker 6: And how did that conversation come about, mister Blum?
Speaker 3: It was a genial, genial general discussion. But I can't
Speaker 3: remember you.
Speaker 6: Can't give any more context as to how was she
Speaker 6: came to say those matters about abandoning her family.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, would you agree with me?
Speaker 6: Throughout the course of your evidence in this inquest, you
Speaker 6: have rarely descended into that level of detail in relation
Speaker 6: to your interaction with Marion Barter.
Speaker 3: What do you want me to say?
Speaker 6: Well? Do you agree or disagree with what I've just
Speaker 6: suggested to you, mister Blum, I just.
Speaker 3: Said, remember that particular thing that she said, But that
Speaker 3: was all I wasn't, you know, I wasn't particularly particularly
Speaker 3: interested in anything of that kind, So I I found
Speaker 3: I can't remember she made that that point that I
Speaker 3: thought was probably a bit a bit strange.
Speaker 5: Mister Bloom denies suggestions that the new evidence he has
Speaker 5: suddenly remembered about a conversation with Marion Barter is a lie.
Speaker 5: He becomes befuddled and again stutters and stumbles repeatedly when
Speaker 5: mister Casselon asks him whether he realizes how important this
Speaker 5: information is.
Speaker 3: I can understand that, but I can't. I can't, I can't.
Speaker 3: I don't so many years ago, I don't remember.
Speaker 6: I have to ask why you did not volunteer that
Speaker 6: information to New South Wales Police when you first spoke
Speaker 6: to them about Marian's disappearance in June of twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: One, because because they never do, they never ask anything
Speaker 3: about it. Then I just don't remember.
Speaker 6: Mister Bloom, you knew in June of twenty twenty one
Speaker 6: that the police wished to question you in relation to
Speaker 6: your interaction with Marion Barter because she was a missing person.
Speaker 6: Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: And if I can return to my earlier question, in
Speaker 6: those circumstances, why did you not volunteer the information which
Speaker 6: you have disclosed here to the New South Wales Police.
Speaker 5: Will spare you any more of the bumbling responses because
Speaker 5: it goes on for some time. Mister Bloom does not
Speaker 5: have a definitive answer as to why he suddenly announced
Speaker 5: yesterday for the very first time that Marion Barter told
Speaker 5: him in nineteen ninety seven that she wanted to separate
Speaker 5: herself from her family, Yet he denies that he is
Speaker 5: making it up. Mister Cassitin pointedly asks why such a
Speaker 5: conversation was not mentioned during mister Bloom's interview with police
Speaker 5: on September fourteenth, twenty twenty one, and why he did
Speaker 5: not mention it when prompted during court proceedings on February sixteen,
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, and why he again failed to reveal
Speaker 5: the information when asked in April twenty twenty two about
Speaker 5: whether he had any more information about Marion Barter. As
Speaker 5: he struggles to explain all of this, Rick Bloom appears
Speaker 5: to highlight his supposed cognitive decline by stuttering, I don't remember.
Speaker 5: That's how things work in my head. I do things
Speaker 5: now that I won't remember. This afternoon, I don't remember,
Speaker 5: and sometimes I remember. It continues along like this for
Speaker 5: a while before mister Casselton says this.
Speaker 6: Could the reason you disclose that information only yesterday be
Speaker 6: because you know more about the disappearance of Marion Barter
Speaker 6: than you have previously let on, and you let down
Speaker 6: your guard yesterday. I suggest that you do know more
Speaker 6: than you are letting on about the whereabouts of Marion Barter. No, sir, no,
Speaker 6: I want to suggest to you, mister Bloom, that you
Speaker 6: know more about the whereabouts of Marion Barter than you
Speaker 6: have been letting on to her honor throughout the course
Speaker 6: of her honors in quest. Do you accept that?
Speaker 3: No, sir, no, I don't. I don't know anything anything
Speaker 3: about Marion Butter.
Speaker 6: I have no further questions.
Speaker 5: Once Adam Casselton sits down selling Leyden's lawyer, brand Smith
Speaker 5: again has questions, beginning with an invitation to mister Bloom
Speaker 5: to provide an answer.
Speaker 8: I asked a similar question in April last year. Mister Bloom,
Speaker 8: if you do know anything, this is your time to answer.
Speaker 3: I would have done it a long time ago. You
Speaker 3: put me under such pressure.
Speaker 8: I don't remember so so you made up that evidence.
Speaker 3: I never made up a story. But my but my
Speaker 3: head doesn't walk like yours. I have problems.
Speaker 8: You know I act for Marion Barter's daughter. Yes, you
Speaker 8: know that she has been looking for her mother since
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 5: Mister Bloom responds with more stuttering.
Speaker 8: So you can't provide any more information as to what
Speaker 8: happened to Marion Barter.
Speaker 3: I can't prove how would I know she was living
Speaker 3: her life? I wasn't seeing what do you want me
Speaker 3: to see?
Speaker 5: It is here that questioning ends. More documents attended before
Speaker 5: the court is adjourned. This public hearing is over, but
Speaker 5: the inquest is not. Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan's findings are still
Speaker 5: to be delivered at a date to be advised.
Speaker 1: Once the public gallery has emptied and media crews have dispersed,
Speaker 1: I catch up with Christina, who, as I've mentioned, has
Speaker 1: come from the UK for this in quest about We
Speaker 1: chat about what we've heard and seen over the past
Speaker 1: few days.
Speaker 9: I think today the pretty big thing was that what
Speaker 9: he's claiming about what Marian said in nineteen ninety seven
Speaker 9: about wanting to disown a farm or not have anything
Speaker 9: to do with them, which of course we know he
Speaker 9: hasn't mentioned before, and as far as I know, in
Speaker 9: twenty twenty one when he gave his statement to the police,
Speaker 9: he didn't have those medical issues that have come on
Speaker 9: since then. So it's very questionable my view.
Speaker 1: They talk about cognitive decline, right, but it does seem
Speaker 1: to be quite switched on still.
Speaker 9: Well, it seems to fluctuate, doesn't it. Whether that's out
Speaker 9: of convenience.
Speaker 1: Well more with the voice that fluctuates. But he seems
Speaker 1: to understand everything that's been put to him, right, Yeah.
Speaker 9: He understands all the questions, and some he's able to
Speaker 9: answer extremely clearly. Usually when there's a backstory to be told,
Speaker 9: I find there isn't much speech impediment there when there's
Speaker 9: a story to be told. Ultimately, this is fact finding,
Speaker 9: isn't it. And the facts that needed, the evidence is needed.
Speaker 9: Clearly that's not going to come from.
Speaker 1: Him, no, and all we can do is present the
Speaker 1: evidence as we have with all or as the the
Speaker 1: coroner's team has via New South Wales Police, and put
Speaker 1: that to him, give him a chance to explain it
Speaker 1: way up what seems more probable. And I mean I
Speaker 1: guess within a lot of criminal cases and coroner's cases
Speaker 1: that's what happens.
Speaker 9: That must be why the coroner wants to hear all
Speaker 9: this additional information about these other women that have come
Speaker 9: forward with what's happened to them, because it creates a
Speaker 9: bigger picture.
Speaker 1: The issue is here is that more information keeps coming out,
Speaker 1: but we can't definitely keep going with the coronial inquest
Speaker 1: when it's two years, Like it's been two years. That's
Speaker 1: a long time.
Speaker 9: And if you just think of Sally and the effect
Speaker 9: that it has on her, it would be really good
Speaker 9: if there was some sort of end insight, not necessarily closure,
Speaker 9: but some end to this part of the proceeding so
Speaker 9: she can move on with the next stage.
Speaker 1: Well, that's right, because the coroner does have the opportunity
Speaker 1: to refer it to the DPP if she thinks there's
Speaker 1: an indetable offense in relation to Marian's disappearance. So there
Speaker 1: are avenues that need to proceed. I mean, an inquest
Speaker 1: isn't going to conclude this investigation.
Speaker 9: Absolutely, and you can only hope that some further action
Speaker 9: is taken after this and that there's some justice for Marian.
Speaker 1: As she may recall, Christina was an avid listener of
Speaker 1: the podcast and quickly became a helper, doing whatever she
Speaker 1: could to help out with investigations in the UK. Recently,
Speaker 1: she's been writing letters to people in Burwash who live
Speaker 1: in the lane where Rick Blum then Frederick de HEAVERI
Speaker 1: lived with his wife, Diane and his children in the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, and amazingly she got a response from someone
Speaker 1: who remembers them.
Speaker 9: She was very helpful and her memories of Rick and
Speaker 9: Diane from that time if you think that was the
Speaker 9: mid nineteen eighties, those memories were very vivid and it
Speaker 9: was almost as if she had been dying to talk
Speaker 9: to someone about this because she always wondered what became
Speaker 9: of them, and because she had some concerns about his
Speaker 9: behavior and his treatment of Diane. I think she was
Speaker 9: concerned and she didn't know what became of them. So firstly,
Speaker 9: she was pleased to hear that Diane was okay for
Speaker 9: her welfare, and she was surprised that they were still
Speaker 9: married okay.
Speaker 1: And when you say concerns, why was she concerned, like
Speaker 1: what evidence had been presented to her that Diane was
Speaker 1: being controlled?
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 9: Her observation of the family dynamic was that Rick had
Speaker 9: a lot of control over things within the family, down
Speaker 9: to the point of he would only put a limited
Speaker 9: amount of petrol in the car, so Diane couldn't travel
Speaker 9: very far. He only gave her a small amount of
Speaker 9: money to spend pocket money. He did all the shopping,
Speaker 9: He bought all the children's clothes. She wasn't able to
Speaker 9: buy the children's clothes. So she was living in isolation really,
Speaker 9: and her life was the children. And she expressed to
Speaker 9: this woman that she was unhappy and she wanted to
Speaker 9: get out of the marriage, but because of threats from
Speaker 9: Rick that she would never see the children again, or
Speaker 9: that he would find them and take away the children,
Speaker 9: that she had no choice.
Speaker 1: Some four years after the head of Aries moved away,
Speaker 1: this woman received a Christmas card from Diane. She remembers
Speaker 1: feeling relieved because Diane mentioned that she'd seen her parents,
Speaker 1: whom she had missed greatly while in England. Bizarrely, the
Speaker 1: woman still had the envelope that the card came in,
Speaker 1: with the postmark from Tasmania. Christina passed on the information,
Speaker 1: but the woman wants to remain anonymous, and she hasn't
Speaker 1: been responding to emails lately. I turn our attention back
Speaker 1: to the inquest and wonder aloud, what might happen next.
Speaker 9: It's just so surreal that we're here listening to this
Speaker 9: after all that time, and just the huge amount of
Speaker 9: information that's come out. It's quite overwhelmeding, really, isn't it.
Speaker 9: Some of it doesn't even seem real. But you have
Speaker 9: to step back and remember this is real, this is
Speaker 9: what happens, and clearly something has happened to Marian that's
Speaker 9: very serious. And I think it's just the thing to
Speaker 9: remember is that there's human beings involved with this, human hearts.
Speaker 9: You know, this affects people's lives, and I think some
Speaker 9: of that can get lost sometimes in all the facts,
Speaker 9: But it's good to step back and think that.
Speaker 1: I just gotta remember that absolutely. And you know, I
Speaker 1: was thinking, you know, people with Rick Lamy's looking so pathetic,
Speaker 1: I guess, and I don't mean that in the sense
Speaker 1: of sad and pathetic. When he was there yes day,
Speaker 1: an old man and he's stuttering and spluttering and everything,
Speaker 1: and he's eighty three. And then I think of these
Speaker 1: other women, Gilaine and Andre Flum, both in their nineties.
Speaker 1: He just up in the middle of the night to
Speaker 1: give evidence against him, particularly Glaine, who was obviously in
Speaker 1: love with him.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 9: It's sad, isn't it. There's some sad stories behind this,
Speaker 9: and it obviously still affects them now and it's still
Speaker 9: in their memory. So there is that element of sadness
Speaker 9: that they've been hurt or damaged in some way his actions.
Speaker 9: And there's potentially more.
Speaker 1: They all have, haven't there. And that's the thing. Their
Speaker 1: stories are consistent, but he is not with their stories,
Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. He's the only one
Speaker 1: saying that's not true and calling them all layers.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and what are the chances of that that all
Speaker 9: these women are lying and have made up all these stories? Because,
Speaker 9: as he said, that's the kind of women they are.
Speaker 9: Don't know what that means, but it's clear that they
Speaker 9: are nice, good people who didn't deserve that treatment.
Speaker 1: As soon as we hear from the coroner, will let.
Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 3: Down do