1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: This is the Happy Family's podcast with doctor Justin Coilson, 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: where Luke and Susie our husband and wife radio team 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: with three young boys. This is the podcast for the 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants some answers. 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: Now, it's nice to talk to you, Susie. Hi, Luke. 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 3: Hey, mates. Now what we're talking about is. 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: Seven things our children should never hear from us. It's 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: an article that you wrote that really, I guess you know, 9 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of talk for a long time 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 1: about whether it's okay to hit our children, whether it's 11 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: okay to smack, and we've talked about that before, Justin. 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: But one of the things that you really highlight here 13 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: is that just as damaging can be the words that 14 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: we speak to our children. 15 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, scientists have found that the same areas 16 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: of the brain light up when our children experience psychological 17 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: pain from the verbal punishment that they get as much 18 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: as from being hit. It's almost like the emotional pain 19 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: triggered the same part of our brain as physical pain does. 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 2: It's quite quite interesting and it shows just how important 21 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 2: the words we use. You know, we need to choose 22 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: the right words when we're speaking to our children, even 23 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: when they try us. 24 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: Yes, and maybe especially when they try us is when. 25 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 2: We need to be particularly Yeah. 26 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: Look, if you've put together a list of seven things, 27 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: I'll run through those quickly and then we might discuss 28 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: a couple of them in more detail. You've got in 29 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: their name calling, comparisons, threats, dismissal, nothing so not speaking 30 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: at all, guilt and shame and you don't matter. These 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: are the seven things you're saying our children shouldn't hear 32 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: from us. 33 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 2: Justin Yeah, yeah, I kind of cringe as you go 34 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: through that list. I mean, it was a painful article 35 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: to write because there's a sort of a there's a 36 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: negative energy associated with it, isn't there? But I mean, 37 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 2: let's start with the first one. Name calling. There just 38 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 2: is we call it behaving with contempt towards our children 39 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: when we name call. There's a fabulous researcher that many 40 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: people have heard of called John Gottman, and he argues 41 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 2: that when there's contempt in our relationships, regardless of whether 42 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: it's with a spouse or with somebody else, that we 43 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 2: are on the way to essentially distroying that relationship. There's nothing, nothing, 44 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: that our children should ever hear when it comes to 45 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 2: name calling. They don't need to be called stupid or 46 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: dumb dumb. They also don't need to be called selfish 47 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: or conceited or entitled or any of those things. Those 48 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 2: labels really do stick, and the boy, they just have 49 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 2: such an impact. I talked to adults regularly who say, 50 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: I remember that day that my dad called me that name, 51 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 2: and it's just never. 52 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 3: Left me well, and I have a memory like that 53 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 3: where and it wasn't my dad and my mum were 54 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 3: beautiful and how they spoke to me generally, but there 55 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: was one moment in my life where it crushed me, 56 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 3: and as an adult, I remember it vividly. But my 57 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: family teased me justin because I read some stuff about 58 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: this when I was a young man, way before I 59 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 3: had kids, and I made a commitment to say, not 60 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 3: just not calling names, but not putting negative labels on. 61 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 3: When I have kids, I'm going to talk about their behavior, 62 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 3: not that they're a naughty boy, but maybe they behaved 63 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 3: in a way that is naughty, but making sure I 64 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: differentiate between the two. And right now, I think one 65 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 3: of the things we're passionate about it when we sit 66 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 3: down with our kids, we talk about their choices and 67 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 3: their behavior. But try to never say you are naughty 68 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: or you are The only labels we want to give 69 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: them are that you are loved, and you are precious 70 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 3: and you are value. 71 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so important, you know. I reframe naughty behavior 72 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: as challenging. I think that that's a much more helpful 73 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: way to look at behavior that we find difficult. I'd 74 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: much rather say, Wow, this is a really challenging situation 75 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: than say you're naughty, because that's just not fair the child. 76 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: The child's not naughty. That the child having a challenging time, 77 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: and so are we. 78 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: We've got a couple more of these we want to 79 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: look at. Doctor Justin Coulson is our guests today as 80 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: we look at the words that we shouldn't be speaking 81 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: to our children more. 82 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 4: Next, everyone wants their family to be happy, but so 83 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 4: much gets in the way. Work, stress, commitments, and our 84 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 4: children's challenging behavior are some of the usual suspects, and 85 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 4: we can all tidy up our parenting style and get 86 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 4: clearer about what we'll actually make our family happier. Twenty 87 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 4: one Days to a Happier Family is the best selling 88 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 4: parenting book by doctor Justin Coulson. With answers to both 89 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 4: common and complicated parenting problems, combining cutting edge scientific insights 90 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 4: with real examples of family life in the trenches. You'll 91 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 4: find dozens of strategies for making your family happier. Twenty 92 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 4: one Days to a Happier Family available online and from 93 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 4: booksellers everywhere and at happy families dot com dot au. 94 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: It's The Happy Family's podcast with doctor Justin Coulson, and 95 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: we're talking today about what not to say to our children. 96 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: And there's lots of things, of course, justin like comparison. 97 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: We know not to try and compare our children to 98 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: other siblings. But there's a couple I wanted to group together, 99 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,239 Speaker 1: one of them being dismissal and the other one being nothing. 100 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: Can you talk to us a bit about those two things? 101 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, So dismissal is kind of where we turn away 102 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: from our children. You know, they come to us with 103 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: a difficulty or a challenge and we just turn away. 104 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 2: We're like an talk to the hand, don't give me 105 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 2: that rubbish, and we turn away from them. We can 106 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: even do it in a sugar coated way, where we 107 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: can do it in like a well meaning way where 108 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 2: we say by you'll be right. And when we do that, 109 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: what we're effectively doing is we're dismissing our child's emotion. 110 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: We're saying to our child, you know, you don't really 111 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: matter that much right now, and what you're going through 112 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: isn't all that real for me. It leaves a child 113 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: feeling like they're not worthy and they're not important. Even 114 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: more destructive through us when we just don't say anything 115 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 2: at all, and all too often, I'll watch this happen. 116 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 2: I'll see it happen with parents who they're not meaning 117 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: to do it. I know. I'm sure we've all done 118 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 2: it accidentally from time to time. But there'll be a 119 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: situation where a child is calling out to us, Mum 120 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 2: and we're in the middle of something. Oh dad, Dad, 121 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: we're in the middle of something. We're walking to the 122 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 2: car and we're like, yep, what is it, and we 123 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: just keep on walking, or we don't even respond, or 124 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: they're having a hard time and we simply say nothing. Now, 125 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,239 Speaker 2: there are times where it's better to not say anything, 126 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 2: but that's not helpful for our children. It makes them 127 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: feel worth The resilience takes an absolute battery. 128 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: So where's the balance between that and the other advice 129 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 3: that we tend to get, which is, if they're performing 130 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 3: attention seeking behavior in a negative way, don't reinforce them 131 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 3: by giving them the attention. Where's the line and balance 132 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 3: between these two decisions we have to ye. 133 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 2: I think I think that's a really important question that 134 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: we need to consider care and each context will be different, 135 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: But if I was to summarize it into simple dot points, 136 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: I'd say number one, if they are being challenging, they 137 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: don't need a good talking to, They need a good 138 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: listening to. Yeah, they don't need us to ignore them, 139 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 2: They don't need us to turn away from them, and 140 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: they certainly don't need us to turn against them and 141 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 2: start punishing them. What they need instead is for us 142 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: to recognize that they're having a tough time right now, 143 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: and we probably should spend some time trying to understand why. 144 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: And the second thing is, once we've got our head 145 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: around what's going on, once again, we don't need to 146 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: lecture them or punish them or anything like that. What 147 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: we need to do instead is put it back onto them. 148 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 2: And we can do this even with a three year old. 149 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: We say, well, now that I understand what's going on, 150 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: what do you think we should do about it? Or 151 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 2: how can I help? In other words, we're encouraging them 152 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 2: to think for themselves, to use their autonomy to boss 153 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: their resilience by coming up with ideas that are going 154 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: to benefit them. 155 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: No, sorry, justin. Sorry, there's one thing I don't want 156 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: to do, and that's encourage them to think for themselves. 157 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: Come on, our kids thinking for themselves? 158 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 3: Justin. 159 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: But just before we let you go, can I talk 160 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: about quickly on the back of all of this. This 161 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: is kind of a what not to do list that 162 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: you have for parents here, and it's easy to run 163 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: through a list like this and as parents go, oh 164 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: I've done that, Oh I've done that. Can we just 165 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: talk a moment about having grace on ourselves as parents 166 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: when we have got it wrong. 167 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: Every single one of us, including the parenting expert you're 168 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: talking to right now, has made several of these mistakes. 169 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: It's part of being a parent. We make mistakes. The wonderful, 170 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: wonderful thing about parenthood is that our children are infinitely forgiving. 171 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 2: They just want great relationships with us. And if we 172 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 2: go to them and we say, you know what I 173 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: got that's so wrong. I'm so sorry. But they'll forgive us. 174 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: I have a good friend. And when his teenager came 175 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: home late one night, having crashed the car and broken 176 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 2: purfew and broken about fourteen other rules, this friend of 177 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 2: mine laid into his son. He just started on HI. 178 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 2: Later and about ten or twelve seconds into this lecture 179 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: that he was launching into with all these well practiced lines, 180 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: he paused and he realized what he was doing, and 181 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 2: he looked at his son and he said, son, I'd 182 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: like to start over to your mind, And his son said, Dad, 183 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: I'd really prefer if you didn't wear twelve seconds in. 184 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: Can you just get it over with? But what he 185 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: was really saying was, you know, I got this wrong. 186 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: I want to start again. This is not the This 187 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 2: is not the way to a productive conversation. We can 188 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: start over with our kids. We can get it right, 189 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: and if we've got it wrong before, that's okay. We 190 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: all do start again starting today. 191 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 3: I discovered recently it's very humbling to sit a seven 192 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: year old down by the pool and say I'm sorry, 193 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 3: I got it wrong with it. But as you say, 194 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 3: he was very forgiving. I'm very gracious to. 195 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: Me from the big cuddle after it just feels so. 196 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: Good that doesn't it though? From Happy Families dot com 197 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: Todau doctor Justin Coleson, thank you so much. We really 198 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: appreciate it. 199 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 2: Love talking to you guys. 200 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: For more info in all of Justin's books, podcasts, and programs, 201 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: you can jump on line to happy families dot com 202 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: dot are you and to find out how to have 203 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: Justin speak at your school or you can come along 204 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: to your organization as well, go to Justin Coulson dot 205 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: com