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Speaker 1: Now, as I mentioned, the Northern Territory government says that

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Speaker 1: it is enacting emergency measures across the Northern Territory's prisons

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Speaker 1: and police watch houses to address extraordinary risks posed by

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Speaker 1: record overcrowding. Now. In a statement over the weekend, the

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Speaker 1: Department of Corrections said that prisoner numbers across the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory had reached two thousand, three hundred and seventy on Friday,

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Speaker 1: following a rapid and continuing surge of inmates. Now joining

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Speaker 1: me in the studio, well, he's the president of the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Association, not Corrections, but no doubt having

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Speaker 1: an impact.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to your Finny, Good morning Katy, Good morning

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Speaker 2: to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Always good to catch up with you now, Finny, in

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Speaker 1: terms of these huge prisoner numbers, we know that we've

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Speaker 1: had huge issues with our correctional facilities for a number

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Speaker 1: of years in terms of really not having room for

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Speaker 1: all of the inmates that we've got. I mean we've

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Speaker 1: reached emergency situation now.

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Speaker 2: Again, Katie. I can speak from experience here obviously managing

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Speaker 2: the Palmeston Watchhouse and the Palmeston Police Station for a

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Speaker 2: number of years as well, this is not a new issue.

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Speaker 2: This is highlighted the government some five years ago. We're

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Speaker 2: at capacity at that point in time. They've been trying

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Speaker 2: to deal with that and kind of put band aid

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Speaker 2: solutions in place to deal with this, but they haven't

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Speaker 2: actually had a plan to go forward about increasing the

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Speaker 2: number of beds available for the correctional facility. And now

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Speaker 2: we're seeing an overflow under police watchouse which is causing

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Speaker 2: our staff much undue stress and we're waiting for this

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Speaker 2: volatile situation to become out of control at a point

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Speaker 2: where the prison has just had enough. It's unfortunate that

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Speaker 2: we're placing this position, but again we're in this because

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Speaker 2: there was no plan to go forward.

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Speaker 1: Do you worry that I mean, if it reaches a

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Speaker 1: situation where it is a volatile situation. I mean even

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Speaker 1: in recent weeks we've had a whistleblower contact us about

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Speaker 1: a prison guard being assaulted, kicked in the head and

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Speaker 1: knocked unconscious. Do you worry that it is going to

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Speaker 1: then become a situation where the police are going to

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Speaker 1: be called in to the correctional facilities to assist.

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Speaker 2: And we've seen this before, Katie, We've dealt with the

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Speaker 2: situations that at the whole facility a number of years

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Speaker 2: ago now where it actually turned into rite and turn

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Speaker 2: obviously quite violent out there, and the situation involved in

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Speaker 2: the couple of burnings of buildings, et cetera out there

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Speaker 2: where police were forced to respond to that. But unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: at the moment, the correction staffing are understaffed. They're struggling

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Speaker 2: to deal with the demand and the numbers they've got

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Speaker 2: in their facilities and that's flowing into a police watchhouses

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Speaker 2: and causing our staff much grief and we can't use

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Speaker 2: facilities which they're designed for for our purposes.

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Speaker 1: How busy are the watch houses right now?

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Speaker 2: They are flat out the staff dealing with a high

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Speaker 2: stress situation of people coming and going. They're causing delays

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Speaker 2: for people coming into the watchhouse, in processing our prisoners,

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Speaker 2: processing their prisoners in and out. It's causing delays and

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Speaker 2: they're causing a large amount of stress for our staff.

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Speaker 2: I have been speaking the Commission of Police over the

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Speaker 2: weekend in respect to this. He's been in consultation with

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Speaker 2: Commissioner Valley over the weekend. We have seen some things

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Speaker 2: happen occur over the weekend which has reduced our numbers.

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Speaker 2: As an example, we had eighty four in corrections prisoners

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Speaker 2: in Parmesan Watchhouse alone on Saturday. That's reduced to about

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Speaker 2: seventy three I think on Sunday, and then reduced again

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Speaker 2: to sixty four this morning. But sixty four on top

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Speaker 2: of our normal numbers at the Palmeston watch out. It's

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Speaker 2: a high stra of situations.

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Speaker 1: So where have they gone? You said, those numbers have reduced?

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Speaker 1: Where have they gone? We?

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Speaker 2: All I can say is that again that's the thing

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Speaker 2: for corrections. But they've made available beds to move them

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Speaker 2: out of the watchest. They've made a commitment to us

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Speaker 2: and the commitment to the police to make sure we

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Speaker 2: can actually use how watch houses as they're designed to

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Speaker 2: do for police well.

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Speaker 1: Because I mean some of the discussion now is that

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Speaker 1: it's the legislative changes that have come into place that

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Speaker 1: are seeing those prisoner numbers increase. I mean, is that

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Speaker 1: too soon?

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Speaker 2: Really, that's far too soon, Caadian. We have proposed with

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Speaker 2: the government, we have met with the government. We're going

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Speaker 2: to see a spike in prison numbers due the legislation changes.

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Speaker 2: But at least they're doing something to actually curb this

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Speaker 2: behavior and peractually potter to terrence to the community and

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Speaker 2: make sure that the community is protected. It's a bit

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Speaker 2: early to say that these legislation changes. Some of them

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Speaker 2: haven't come into effect, Katy, and some of them won't

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Speaker 2: come into effect till January next year as well. But

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Speaker 2: we've seen this highlighted over in time and time again.

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Speaker 2: There's been no plan for corrections for the last five

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Speaker 2: or six years, and that's why we're in this situation

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Speaker 2: we are in today.

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Speaker 1: Finny. I know that people are going to be listening

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Speaker 1: this morning and they're going to be thinking to themselves.

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Speaker 1: My biggest concern is that if someone breaks the law

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Speaker 1: on the street, if somebody assaults someone else, if somebody

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Speaker 1: sexually assaults somebody, are they still going to be arrested?

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Speaker 1: Are they still going to be taken to a watchhouse?

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Speaker 2: I can guarantee you, Katie, that they'll be arrested by

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Speaker 2: the Northern Churchy Police, they'll be placed before the court system,

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Speaker 2: and that the decision will be made at the court system.

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Speaker 2: Then it's the obligation of Corrections under the Corrections Act

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Speaker 2: to make sure that they accept the prisoners. Where they

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Speaker 2: put them is up to them, and that's the decision

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Speaker 2: for these guys.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any concerns that you know that the

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Speaker 1: courts might look at this current situation and go, oh

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Speaker 1: goodness me, you know, there's nowhere for this person to go.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Katie, that's a decision for the judge. That's a

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Speaker 2: decision for the people that are actually sentencing these prisoners

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Speaker 2: to go. Hang on a minute, there's no room map

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Speaker 2: at Holts. We're just going to put more pressure on

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Speaker 2: the situation. Again, that's a decision for them, and I

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Speaker 2: shouldn't I can't say what they should be doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: But decision for the judge at the time about the

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Speaker 2: serious of the offenses and to make sure that they're

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Speaker 2: adequately providing a deerterrent to the community and make sure

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Speaker 2: these people are held responsible their crimes are committing.

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Speaker 1: But you're confident the police are still going to be

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Speaker 1: able to do their jobs and that you know, people

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Speaker 1: who have broken the law are going to have.

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Speaker 2: To face that guaranteed, Katie, and the police will continue

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Speaker 2: to be the police and no matter how much pressures

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Speaker 2: on the correctional system, they'll be still arrested in placed

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Speaker 2: before the courts as as soon as possible and the

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Speaker 2: investigations will still continue.

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Speaker 1: Finny. Last week we heard that two female paramedics were

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Speaker 1: assaulted while trying to assist a young person in Nakara.

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Speaker 1: Now it's alleged this fourteen year old boy in decently

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Speaker 1: assaulted paramedics before spitting in the ambulance last Wednesday night.

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Speaker 1: The teen is further accused of damaging a medical vehicle

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Speaker 1: and electronic equipment in a police car. He's also spat

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Speaker 1: towards multiple police officers allegedly and has since been charged

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Speaker 1: with a number of offenses. Now, this incident happened the

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Speaker 1: same week that legislation passed through the parliament, meaning there's

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Speaker 1: going to be minimum mandatory sentence for those who assault workers.

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Speaker 2: First off, what was your.

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Speaker 1: Reaction when you heard about this incident.

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Speaker 2: I was contacted by members and told about this situation.

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Speaker 2: It was disgraceful conduct. The fact is that this youth

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Speaker 2: has called for EEMBLANCE staff to come and provide assistance

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Speaker 2: to him, and then he's indecently, allegedly indecently assauld of

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Speaker 2: these ambulance, two ladies working in paramedics and then for

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Speaker 2: them to be spat at. This is a prime example

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Speaker 2: of a policy decision that the Commissioner of Police has

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Speaker 2: taken in respect to the use of spit guards on

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Speaker 2: youth and adults in our custody facilities. It hasn't gone

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Speaker 2: far enough. What we believe at the NTPA, it needs

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Speaker 2: to be used in field as well. We need to

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Speaker 2: have that ability to use them. Currently they're under review

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Speaker 2: in respect to that. There should be a decision that's

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Speaker 2: going before a Workplace committee on the thirtieth of this

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Speaker 2: month in respect to the use of spit guards as well.

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Speaker 1: So this incident has really prompted you to push for

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Speaker 1: this to go further, to go.

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Speaker 2: Further, and we've got the facility. The Commissioners made the

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Speaker 2: policy decision in respect to using it in custy facilities

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Speaker 2: on both youth and adult and this occasion it's adopt

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Speaker 2: his behavior. It was placed on him inside the custody facility,

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Speaker 2: it stopped his behavior. It was removed very much soon

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Speaker 2: after after he's placed in the cell. So therefore the

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Speaker 2: protection of our members was guaranteed and make sure that

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Speaker 2: they weren' assaulted.

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Speaker 1: So this is an example obviously of the spit guard

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Speaker 1: needing to be utilized. Is this the first time that

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Speaker 1: it's had to be That was the.

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Speaker 2: First time after the legislation had passed. Again, providing safe

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Speaker 2: work environment for our staff is what we want. We

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Speaker 2: want to make sure that it's available to members out

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Speaker 2: on the field as well, not just in our custody

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Speaker 2: facilities as well.

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Speaker 1: So how would that look like if it was available

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Speaker 1: out on the field. Out in the field as well,

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Speaker 1: if you've got an offender, or if you've got somebody

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Speaker 1: spitting at you while you're trying to arrest them, you're

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Speaker 1: able to utilize.

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Speaker 2: It to utilize in the field as well. Our biggest

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Speaker 2: risk for our police officers being spat on is in

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Speaker 2: the field. Despite the legislation changes making a managerent minimum

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Speaker 2: sentence of three months for the first offense, we still

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Speaker 2: need that ability. We want to prevent these assaults from occurring.

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Speaker 2: We don't want to actually deal with the assaults after

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Speaker 2: the fact. But we'd rushed ab out to protect our

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Speaker 2: members out in the street.

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Speaker 1: So you'd like those spit guards the use of them

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Speaker 1: to be expanded and did for adults and youth.

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Speaker 2: It's personal protection equipment cartie for our members. We want

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Speaker 2: to make sure that our members do have to go

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Speaker 2: through the rigmarole of being tested, blood test and everything

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Speaker 2: else and the test results to come back and then

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Speaker 2: to be impacted both obviously operationally and also personally because

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Speaker 2: of an assault and assault.

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Speaker 1: So is that something you've spoken to the Chief Minister about.

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Speaker 2: We've spoken to the Chief Minister also spoken to the

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Speaker 2: Commissioner of Police, so communicated with them last week in

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Speaker 2: respect to that. So we're waiting for a decision to

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Speaker 2: come back. As I said, that goes before a committee.

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Speaker 2: The risk management of the Northern Territory Police have done

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Speaker 2: a risk assessment on this and to make sure that

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Speaker 2: there's an assessment done on the thirtieth and we hopefully

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Speaker 2: get a decision that our members of feel support in

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Speaker 2: that workplace.

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Speaker 1: Finny, there's been quite a few sort of legislative changes

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Speaker 1: I guess as well over the last week. But before

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Speaker 1: I get to that, how are things going over the

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Speaker 1: last week or so in terms of assaults towards our police,

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Speaker 1: because I know there's been instances of police being driven

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Speaker 1: at by stolen cars as well.

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Speaker 2: There's still a number of concerning issues going on CARTI

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Speaker 2: but the fact is we've had legislation passed now it's

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Speaker 2: going to come into effects soon and I can't think

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Speaker 2: this CLP government for actually listening to our members. Over

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Speaker 2: a long long time, we haven't been listened to, Katie.

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Speaker 2: They've passed these legislation through for protection of our members,

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Speaker 2: to make sure our members have got greater powers in

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Speaker 2: dealing with these offenders in the community. Unfortunately, we're going

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Speaker 2: to be placed in harms way on a number of occasions.

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Speaker 2: We're going to make sure that people are held responsible

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Speaker 2: for these crimes and to make sure that our members

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Speaker 2: are secure and safe in the community and do what

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Speaker 2: they need to do.

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Speaker 1: What's been the reaction from police and from your members.

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Speaker 2: Now, members have been positive about the legative changes. They're

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Speaker 2: actually felt like they're being listened to.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: The impact that the CLP government had as soon as

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Speaker 2: they were appointed to the new government has been huge

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Speaker 2: for our members and we're being reported that back to

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Speaker 2: our association on a number of occasions, they feel like

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Speaker 2: they're support they feel like that they're being listened to,

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Speaker 2: and they feel like we're going to take a tough

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Speaker 2: on crime approach, which we need here in the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory any Wood.

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Speaker 1: You know, when it comes to some of those other changes,

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Speaker 1: like the impact of the changing or the raising re lowering,

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Speaker 1: I should say of the criminal age, any impact at

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Speaker 1: this point in time, or any sort of anecdotal evidence

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Speaker 1: that the members are giving you at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Again, legislation is going to take time to come into

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Speaker 2: effect and our members need to be trained on this

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Speaker 2: as well. But from what the indication is that people

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Speaker 2: are going to be held at the earliest possibility to

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Speaker 2: be placed into a program or to base in a

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Speaker 2: mandatory program to make sure that these kids are getting

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Speaker 2: the right attention. We're sick of the old responsible adult.

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Speaker 2: We drop them home to responsible adult. If they are

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Speaker 2: responsible adult to start with, Kadie, they wouldn't be out

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Speaker 2: the street walking around breaking laws, committing criminal offenses. Unfortunately

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Speaker 2: seen this time and time again. But we need to

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Speaker 2: make sure that there's manastry programs for these youth. If

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Speaker 2: they are picked up, they're placed into this as manatry,

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Speaker 2: not voluntary like it has been under the previous government.

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Speaker 1: What's the feel within the force right now, you know,

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Speaker 1: with all the changes that have been made and with

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Speaker 1: the legislation being passed over the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 1: what are members saying to you?

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Speaker 2: They're overwhelmed with a number of changes that occurred and

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Speaker 2: then how quickly it's occurred. Again, we're still dealing with

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Speaker 2: a resource issue that we're still trying to play catch

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Speaker 2: up on over a number of years of neglect for

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Speaker 2: our resourcing of policing. But again we're trying hard to

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Speaker 2: get on with what we need to do and providing

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Speaker 2: these law changes. They're providing that support to our front

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Speaker 2: line ment is to make sure that there's consequences for

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Speaker 2: people that actually bring into custody and placing before the court.

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Speaker 1: System, anything else we should be aware of before I

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Speaker 1: let you go.

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Speaker 2: This morning, the corrections issue in Arena early. I spoke

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Speaker 2: to her this morning. I've been at the Parmesan Watchest

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Speaker 2: this morning as well. It's a volatile situation, but our

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Speaker 2: staff being professional, they're dealing with it the best possible

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Speaker 2: way they can. We've got a plan going forward. It's

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Speaker 2: just going to take a bit of time to get

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Speaker 2: this plan working through and the government's been quite on

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Speaker 2: the front foot advocating and giving us updates and relations

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Speaker 2: back to that plan, and also the Commissioner has as well,

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Speaker 2: and we can't thank them enough for that because it

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Speaker 2: praises that huge amount of pressure on us, But it's

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Speaker 2: a volatile situation. We're going to have to monitor and

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Speaker 2: to make sure that our staff and also the correction

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Speaker 2: staff that are looking after these excess numbers are safe

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Speaker 2: and secure.

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Speaker 1: And and when you say it's volatile, are you concerned

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Speaker 1: that we could end up with writing or something else going.

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Speaker 2: We've seen that in the past, Katie, and I'd hate

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Speaker 2: to think of it again in the future. But again

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Speaker 2: I think that's that's a real consequence of what's happening

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Speaker 2: at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Well. Nathan Finn, President of the Northern Territory Polices Asociation,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Katie, and thank you all to your listeners.

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Speaker 2: But as much as the thank you to the men

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Speaker 2: and women are blue out there that do go above

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Speaker 2: and beyond every single day of the week and make

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Speaker 2: sure that they're protecting the community and making sure you

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Speaker 2: both you and I and our families are safe at night.

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Speaker 2: So we can't say thank you enough.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff, Thank you, Thanks Finny,