1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now. Doctor Antheo 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: Rhodes is a pedutritionian, a research a child health advocates 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: and the director of the Royal Children's Health Pole. And 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: Andrea has jumped into this Doctor's Desk episode to have 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: a chat about a recent poll that you did about concussion. Anthea, 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me. With a cycling background, 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: I have had a lot to do with concussion. Well, 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: it hasn't happened to me. There are plenty of people 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: who fall off bikes and bang their heads, and I've 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: watched it happen in races where people get back on 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: the bike and ride and they clearly shouldn't be riding. 13 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: You've conducted this pole not about cycling, but about concussion 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: in kids, not just from sport, but from everyday life. 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: If you were to summarize in I don't know, fifteen 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: seconds or less, what your general research question was, what 17 00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: were you most curious about here? 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: We were really keen to learn where the parents understand, 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: how concussion can happen, what the signs might be if 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 2: it has happened to your kid, and how they know 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: to support them and get them back you know, fully 22 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: functioning into support and activities, when is it safe? What 23 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: do they need to do to make sure their child 24 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: recovers well? 25 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: Before we talk about the practical aspects of this and 26 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: what people need to know about concussion. How well versed 27 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: were Aussie mums and dads on concussion generally? 28 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: So around one in three said they knew very little 29 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: or nothing at all about concussion. And we found that 30 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: when we asked them specifically about some of the signs 31 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: and symptoms the way concussion might show up in a 32 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: child when it came to non physical signs, so that 33 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: might be things like difficulty concentrating, it might be fatigue, 34 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: might even be changes in mood. That around half of 35 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 2: parents weren't aware that those sorts of signs and symptoms 36 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: any young person or child might actually be as a 37 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: result of concussion. 38 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of quick questions for you're really rapid fire. 39 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: Does concussion always have to come from a bump on 40 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: the head? 41 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. So what happens when a child gets concussioned 42 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: or an adult is the brain moves quickly inside the 43 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: skull and knocks up against that hard bony surface, and 44 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: it's that contact that causes the injury that's generally temporary 45 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: to the brain cells. So it can happen in any 46 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: mechanism where the head moves quickly, so that actually might 47 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: be a blow to the body. So for example, a tackle, 48 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: whether that's in sport or in the backyard, that can 49 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: be enough for actually the brain to move really quickly 50 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 2: inside the head and forcefully against the skull. Most commonly though, 51 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: it will be a knock to the head itself. 52 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm even thinking something happening on the trampoline could 53 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: be enough. 54 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely, trampoline definitely a corporate for lots of accidents and injuries. 55 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: We know that it's also a great place for kids 56 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 2: to have fun and stay fit, but definitely even without 57 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 2: blacking out, which commonly parents didn't understand. Around the third 58 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: of parents thought kids will always lose consciousness or blackout 59 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: if they're how to cat cussion. In fact, most commonly 60 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: they don't, So what they might do is look a 61 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: little bit drowsy, perhaps a bit wobbly on their feet 62 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: for a minute or two, and then they might appear 63 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: to just get on with things. And that's where it's 64 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: really important. To know that they actually stop what they're doing, 65 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: And the main reason for that is that knock on 66 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: the head can change their reaction time, the way that 67 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: they're processing things, and put them at risk of a 68 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: second injury, particularly if they're playing sport at the time. 69 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: Anthea, that was questions two and three. So question two 70 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: was do you have to be knocked unconscious to have 71 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: a concussion? Obviously the answer is no. And the third 72 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: one was is it okay to get back into it 73 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: if you have taken some kind of a hit, some 74 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: sort of a knock, if your brain has bashed up 75 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: against the inside of your skull, And again the answer 76 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: is no. I remember watching a cyclist have a crash 77 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: and get back on the bike and he was taking 78 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: his life in his hands. I mean, he couldn't ride 79 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: straight because his brain had obviously been So it's discombobulated 80 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: the right word? Can I use? Discombobulated? I think it's 81 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: a fun word. 82 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: I think it's a good word because we can understand 83 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: the sense of what that means. So it's really hard 84 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: to see the brain and we see we can't see it. 85 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: If your child takes a you know, a knock to 86 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: their arm or their leg it mightk a bit red, 87 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: they might be holding it, nursing it. It's really obvious 88 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 2: something's happened, and you probably wouldn't continue on with normal 89 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: activity if it looked like something was happening. We can't 90 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: see the brain, so instead we have to see the 91 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 2: way it affects your child's behavior, and so that is, 92 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 2: you know, if they look like they're staggering a bit, 93 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 2: if they seem a little bit confused, or in the 94 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: following days, if they seem slowed down, fatigued, that's that 95 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 2: injury taking its time to heal, just like a wood 96 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: in any other body part. 97 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, the word that strings to mind for me is wonky, 98 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: not just physically wonky, but maybe a bit emotionally or 99 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: socially wonky or just not quite there. I have two 100 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: more quick questions for you. First of all, when do 101 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: you know that your kids are okay to get back 102 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: into it? That's the first one. 103 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: So we've got great guidelines on the Children's Hospital website, 104 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: Actually kids health into a fact she returning to school 105 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: and sport, because it will be different for every child. Essentially, 106 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 2: not at all. Within the first forty eight hours, there 107 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: needs to be a slowed down period, not regular activities. 108 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be stripped to bed rest like 109 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: we might have done back in the day, but quiet 110 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: time and generally time away from the screen because that's 111 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: quite stimulating and that's giving the brain a workout when 112 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: what it needs is a rest. And then in the 113 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: following days it's about gradual return to activity. Firstly back 114 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: to school and once fully back and coping with school, 115 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: then it's back to sport. Generally for most kids, that 116 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,559 Speaker 2: will take somewhere between five days up to three weeks 117 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: at the most. Some children it's really quick. If it's 118 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: continuing on more than two to three weeks, then that's 119 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: a prolonged recovery and you would be wanting to check 120 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: in with your doctor for some advice. 121 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: The last question for you, doctor Antheiodes, the Director of 122 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: the Royal Children's Health phole pediatrician and child advocate. Preventions 123 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: tricky when it comes to something like concussion. We obviously 124 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: don't want to see our kids can cust the ramifications 125 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: can be serious, but we also don't want to cotton 126 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: wall our kids. We don't want to have them all 127 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: bubble wrapped and not living their lives. So this idea 128 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: of having them play games like soccer and head the 129 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: soccer ball, or play footy and tackle somebody. It's actually 130 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: fun to live life and play these sports. How do 131 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: we get this balance right so that we're not being 132 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: overprotective the kids are living full, balanced, healthy, outdoors active lives. 133 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: What do we do here? 134 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a tricky one, and there are some good 135 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: rules of thumb. So there are increasingly regulations in sport 136 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: that minimize the really high risk activities like hitting the 137 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: soccer ball, like full body contact in football based sports. 138 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: We know that those activities are high risk for concussion 139 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: and in younger children. So generally those kids who are 140 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: at the moment the guidelines are usually under fourteen, Those 141 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 2: sorts of activities are actually banned in most of those 142 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: sporting codes. Now, that's a sensible thing to be doing, 143 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: because we know the risk of a concussion is high 144 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: in those sorts of activity. But most concussions actually happen 145 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 2: in pretty regular stuff. So it might be tackling in 146 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: the backyard, it might be a game sport that doesn't 147 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: involve contact, still a very common place for concussion young kids. 148 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 2: It's primarily in a playground, perhaps they have a fall, 149 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: or it might even be at home where they bump 150 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: their head on the wall rounding the corner too fast. 151 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: So we can't prevent everything important to be sensible. When 152 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: it comes to some contact sports, people often ask about helmets. 153 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 2: The big takeaway about a helmet is that a helmet 154 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: will not prevent concussion. It's a great thing to wear 155 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: for all kinds of head injury, absolutely on bikes, scooter, skateboards, 156 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: in some sporting codes where helmets are required or recommended, 157 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: but remembering that the brain's quickly inside the skull, that's 158 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: what causes the concussion. If you've got a helmet on, 159 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: that's still going to happen. Helmet will protect you from 160 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 2: an outside blow and other sorts of head injuries, it's 161 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: not going to protect you from concussion. So if your 162 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: child's wearing a helmet, they could still get concussive if 163 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: they've had a blow to the head or body. Remember that, 164 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: and finally, not getting back to activity too early is 165 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: actually the best way to prevent a second concussion, because 166 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: if kids are engaging in sport physical activity and their 167 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 2: reaction times slowed and they're a bit wonky or foggy, 168 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: as you talked about, that's when they're really high risk 169 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: for second head injury and that's where things can get 170 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: really serious. 171 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: Doctor Anthea Rhodes is a ped Nutritian researcher and child 172 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: health advocate and the director of the Royal Children's Health Poll. Hey, Anthea, 173 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: thanks so much for what you shared. 174 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: Pleasure. Thanks Justin. 175 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from 176 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more 177 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: information about making your family happy, please visit us at 178 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: Happy families dot com dot au.