WEBVTT - Nathan Mayfield - In Our Blood - Executive Producer

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<v Speaker 1>It's in the news today, but it was actually on

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<v Speaker 1>TV Reload, the podcast Last Deep Bairline. Welcome back to

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<v Speaker 1>TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and this is

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<v Speaker 1>your podcast to get all the inside goss on the

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<v Speaker 1>popular TV shows you may be watching from around the world. Underniably,

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<v Speaker 1>our TV sets are a major part of our home

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<v Speaker 1>entertainment and very little is known about how our favorite

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<v Speaker 1>shows get made. Each episode, I find guests that want

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<v Speaker 1>to dive just that little bit deeper into the shows

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<v Speaker 1>they've currently been making, so that you can hear all

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<v Speaker 1>their exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest names

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<v Speaker 1>in Australian television. I want to thank you for downloading

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<v Speaker 1>or subscribing to this podcast. I love hearing your feedback,

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<v Speaker 1>so make sure you leave a comment on your chosen

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<v Speaker 1>podcast platform. On today's podcast, I have Nathan Mayfield, the

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<v Speaker 1>executive producer of the captivating four part musical drama series

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<v Speaker 1>In Our Blood, which will premiere this Sunday, the nineteenth

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<v Speaker 1>of March at eight thirty on ABCTV FYI. You will

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<v Speaker 1>be able to also binge this series on abc I

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<v Speaker 1>view from this Sunday, and I highly recommend that you

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<v Speaker 1>do so. Said in the eighties. In Our Blood tells

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<v Speaker 1>the story of people from politics, medicine, and affective communities

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<v Speaker 1>grappling separately with the arrival of the AIDS virus in Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Nathan Mayfield is the chief creative officer and co founder

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<v Speaker 1>of Hoodlum and Emmy and Bafter Award winning production company.

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<v Speaker 1>We will talk about why this story was so important

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<v Speaker 1>to tell in twenty twenty three, where he stands on

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<v Speaker 1>queer actors needing to play queer roles. Nathan will also

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<v Speaker 1>unpack the rationale to make this a musical and have

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<v Speaker 1>the actors talking to the camera. Plus, we will get

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<v Speaker 1>plenty of exclusives from behind the scenes of the new

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<v Speaker 1>series In Our Blood. Anyway, let's bring Nathan into the

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<v Speaker 1>podcast and I really hope you enjoyed this episode. Fine, Nathan,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for coming on the podcast and

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<v Speaker 1>talking about this show which is In Our Blood.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, finally I'm going to be able to share it

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<v Speaker 2>with the worlds.

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<v Speaker 1>I can recognize your work in the stories that you've

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<v Speaker 1>been telling, you know, and it's interesting once I read

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<v Speaker 1>the bio on how this all came together because so

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<v Speaker 1>many of the shows that you work on seem to

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<v Speaker 1>have a bit of a signature to it, which must

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<v Speaker 1>be attributed to the type of work that you made.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad you recognize it, because you never know. You

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<v Speaker 2>sort of work in a bubble in some ways. But

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<v Speaker 2>Hoodlum has been around for almost twenty five years now

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<v Speaker 2>and we've always sort of done things outside the box.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the fact that we've been based in Brisbane

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<v Speaker 2>for the entire time. We've got an office in the

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<v Speaker 2>US as well, but we've always had to sort of

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<v Speaker 2>find interesting ways to sort of tell stories. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>for us, we're a small team and we're independent as well,

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<v Speaker 2>so it means that we really seek out those stories

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<v Speaker 2>and projects that matter, and this was one of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Will you bring raw and I would say, unique voices

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<v Speaker 1>to the screen that kind of reflects society in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that I think is very honest and I think

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<v Speaker 1>is very truthful. Are they sort of like mantras that

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<v Speaker 1>you have behind the scenes when it comes to choosing projects?

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<v Speaker 2>I think ultimately, like I said, we're a bunch of friends.

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<v Speaker 2>My business partner and I started the company and we

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<v Speaker 2>are still actively in the company, and that means our

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<v Speaker 2>mantras really life is too short, So we find projects

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<v Speaker 2>that we love and that we can have fun telling.

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<v Speaker 2>That doesn't necessarily mean that they're all lighthearted pieces, but

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<v Speaker 2>we find reasons for why these should be on screen.

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<v Speaker 2>The other parts of that is, of course, that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of passion is something that translates to when you have

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<v Speaker 2>to pitch these projects. So you know, for Hoodlum, we

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<v Speaker 2>don't have a bottom draw per se. We're in love

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<v Speaker 2>with the projects that we developed five years ago. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just that the timing's not right. So it's sort of

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<v Speaker 2>finding those projects that we're always going to be having there.

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<v Speaker 2>We're just waiting for the stars to align.

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<v Speaker 1>How did this project come about? And how long did

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<v Speaker 1>it take to get this show from conception to having

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<v Speaker 1>it just about to be on screen on the ABC

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<v Speaker 1>great question.

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<v Speaker 2>It's probably the fastest project that we've ever done from

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning to it being on air. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>the short version of this story is that I had

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<v Speaker 2>put out the word that I was sort of looking

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<v Speaker 2>for a queer series.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't know what that looked like.

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<v Speaker 2>My partner he sent me a feature film script from

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<v Speaker 2>a friend of his, Adriano Cappelletta, and I read the

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<v Speaker 2>script I loved it immediately, but it was a feature

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<v Speaker 2>film and I couldn't at that point sort of see

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<v Speaker 2>how I could make that as a movie. So Adriano

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<v Speaker 2>and I got on the phone two hours later, a

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<v Speaker 2>few tears later, just him retelling the story that he discovered,

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<v Speaker 2>and he sent me a pilot script for the series

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<v Speaker 2>and I read that and immediately knew that we had

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<v Speaker 2>a TV series on our hands. And then when I

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<v Speaker 2>talk about stars aligning, one of the things that we

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<v Speaker 2>looked at was, you know, twenty twenty three being World

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<v Speaker 2>Pride in Sydney as well as the fortieth anniversary of

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<v Speaker 2>AIDS hitting Australian shows. So those two things meant that

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<v Speaker 2>I had a reason to sort of go and speak

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<v Speaker 2>to the ABC, and I spoke to Sally Riley, who

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<v Speaker 2>is the head of drama there, and sort of asked

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<v Speaker 2>that question of what sort of activities were they doing

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty twenty three, and I said, I think I

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<v Speaker 2>have the project for you. And it was a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>swift decision making process from there, I think all in all,

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<v Speaker 2>probably two weeks. I think Sally might have read the

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<v Speaker 2>pilot straight away. I had done a verbal pitch with

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<v Speaker 2>her on the phone. She was interested, and then it

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<v Speaker 2>was just about ABC sort of getting their ducks in

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<v Speaker 2>a row to sort of go, okay, well, how can

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<v Speaker 2>we push the button and how can we make sure

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<v Speaker 2>with certainty that we were going to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>get this on air in time? And as miracles happen

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<v Speaker 2>we did.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think made the ABC? And why do

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<v Speaker 1>you think the ABC was the right home for this show?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I could think of many reasons, and their coverage, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, right across world Pride has been very good.

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<v Speaker 1>But for you as well, I mean you need to

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<v Speaker 1>find that right synergy I guess to home something like this. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>what was it about ABC that made this the right network?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was that I we could take that shortcut.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we've made four seasons of Harrow for the ABC,

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<v Speaker 2>so we knew ABC really well, and we loved that relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>We loved the working relationship. We get along really well,

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<v Speaker 2>we enjoyed working together. So I guess it's that beautiful

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<v Speaker 2>thing of being able to just pick up the phone

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<v Speaker 2>and just get a straight answer straight away.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's certainly what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>So for us, ABC was always going to be the

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<v Speaker 2>home we knew that they were going to be the

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<v Speaker 2>main supporter of World Pride. We knew that they would

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<v Speaker 2>have had a remit to sort of program for that

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<v Speaker 2>as well. So I think that was the first that

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<v Speaker 2>was us getting in the door. And then really the

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<v Speaker 2>story itself is so compelling and one that we hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>heard before. I think also piqued their interests. So it

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<v Speaker 2>was really from there. Yeah, we sort of pitched the

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<v Speaker 2>project to them, They read it, they came back to

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<v Speaker 2>us and said, okay, how are we going to make

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<v Speaker 2>this work? And so it was really the ABC of course,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Screen Australia came on board, Screen Queensland came

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<v Speaker 2>on board, and Fremantle International came on board to pick

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<v Speaker 2>up the distribution for worldwide.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a painful part of our history. What makes a

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<v Speaker 1>series about HIV in the eighties so important? Do you

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<v Speaker 1>think to tell in twenty twenty three?

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up in the eighties. For me, it was

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<v Speaker 2>looking at how can we celebrate and honor the people

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<v Speaker 2>that were really at the call face at that time,

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<v Speaker 2>not only being traumatized by the campaign, but also the

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<v Speaker 2>notion of this disease that was killing killing gays, which

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<v Speaker 2>is what it came down to. Also, that stigma. I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like forty years it felt like the right time

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<v Speaker 2>to sort of honor that I have worked with a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of queer creatives who probably didn't know or really

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<v Speaker 2>understand the impact that had on let alone Australia, let

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<v Speaker 2>alone the queer communities. And it was also a story

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<v Speaker 2>that wasn't all grim. It was actually a story that

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know, which is how Australia led the way

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<v Speaker 2>in the way that we raised the awareness of AIDS

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<v Speaker 2>and tackled the AIDS crisis, both at a grassroots level

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<v Speaker 2>right through to federal Parliament. And I look, I really

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<v Speaker 2>have to give that credit to Adriano. Adriano had written

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<v Speaker 2>a play for Griffin a couple of years earlier, and

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<v Speaker 2>he had done so much homework and so much research

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<v Speaker 2>on this subject that really we already had the bones

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of hit the ground running.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was sort of an important I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>have to be really honest. When I first heard about it,

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<v Speaker 1>I thought I had seen this story being told in

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<v Speaker 1>different forms, particularly in America, and I thought that there

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<v Speaker 1>were different tellings of this and so I did sit

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<v Speaker 1>down and watch all four episodes together and I was

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<v Speaker 1>completely blown away. But I was really empowered about our

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<v Speaker 1>involvement in a difficult time, and I thought that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the AIDS virus went to hit Australia, you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>were deeply affected, but there was so much that I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know about it. And there's so much power I

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<v Speaker 1>think for audiences and getting to watch this and to

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<v Speaker 1>see how some very powerful people were able to handle this.

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<v Speaker 3>Isn't it great? I love that about it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>I I was with you. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a funny thing that certainly when you want

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<v Speaker 2>to look at stories and pitch those stories to decision

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<v Speaker 2>makers like networks or studios, of course they're going to

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<v Speaker 2>look at that and compare it to other projects around

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<v Speaker 2>the world. My argument is always, well, does that mean

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<v Speaker 2>that we can only ever have like five AIDS stories?

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<v Speaker 1>Like?

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody wants to commission these, and it's always just finding

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<v Speaker 2>the different sort of lens to put on that story. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>we hadn't seen anything from domestic point of view. We

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't seen something that really was viewing the AIDS crisis

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<v Speaker 2>and what happened at that time through an Australian lens.

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<v Speaker 2>We're very quick to criticize government about how they might

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<v Speaker 2>act on certain things. We've just come out of a pandemic,

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<v Speaker 2>and I thought that this was a really great way

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<v Speaker 2>to sort of one celebrate just how integral it was

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<v Speaker 2>and boiling that down to actual humans in Parliament that

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<v Speaker 2>were just not seeing this as a gay disease. They

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<v Speaker 2>were just seeing this as as a national health crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>And I love that about it. They just I guess

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<v Speaker 2>they rallied, you know, they mobilized what they had to do,

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<v Speaker 2>and they understood the urgency. And I think because of

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<v Speaker 2>that we can sort of sit back forty years later

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<v Speaker 2>and say, Okay, well, there's a lot of us that

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<v Speaker 2>exists today thanks to the hard work that they'd done,

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<v Speaker 2>both at the grassroots, the queer communities, the lesbian community,

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<v Speaker 2>all of those different players right up to federal government.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think, you know, how those communities have come

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<v Speaker 1>together in a crisis like this. You know, when I

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<v Speaker 1>look at twenty twenty three and look at us coming

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<v Speaker 1>out of a pandemic like COVID, I think that there

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<v Speaker 1>were plenty of things that we were able to I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>the wider community were able to borrow from us. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>there were some really important ways in which information was

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<v Speaker 1>gathered and distributed, and I think that that would have

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<v Speaker 1>been used, you know, when it came to the pandemic totally.

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<v Speaker 2>And we have the benefit of technology, which is probably

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<v Speaker 2>a blessing and curse in the sense of COVID, but

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<v Speaker 2>you imagine what this must have been like in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eeventy three. You had far more prejudice, far more stigma,

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<v Speaker 2>but also the circulation and the dissemination of information was

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<v Speaker 2>probably a lot slower, you know. I think that was

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<v Speaker 2>something to reflect on as well. In the show.

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<v Speaker 1>There is also really bold choices that you guys have

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<v Speaker 1>made in the format, you know, with characters talking to

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<v Speaker 1>the camera and characters singing. What was the process like

0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:56.800
<v Speaker 1>in making those decisions.

0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, we had the bones there because that's part of

0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.000
<v Speaker 2>what Adriano had done for his play. But then when

0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.240
<v Speaker 2>we got in the room and that was the writers

0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:10.040
<v Speaker 2>and myself, Adriano, Jane Allen, who was the script producer

0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:14.520
<v Speaker 2>and just really pulled the show together, Jonathan Gavin, another

0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.480
<v Speaker 2>fantastic queer writer. The four of us sort of sat

0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.280
<v Speaker 2>down and worked out what the rules of this show

0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:23.040
<v Speaker 2>were going to be and without sounding naugh about it.

0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.080
<v Speaker 2>We sort of looked at it and said, well, we

0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.240
<v Speaker 2>know that we've got a core audience that we want

0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.880
<v Speaker 2>to speak to. What are the things that we would

0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:31.960
<v Speaker 2>like to see. This is probably the first show that

0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.760
<v Speaker 2>I've done where there's more queers in the production process

0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.920
<v Speaker 2>than there were straits. Not to say that that means

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.319
<v Speaker 2>anything more than you know, we felt like it was

0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 2>a really safe space. We had the innovation, we had

0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.720
<v Speaker 2>the support of the ABC. We knew that we only

0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.320
<v Speaker 2>had four episodes for one hours, so we had to

0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.800
<v Speaker 2>find something that was both bold and exciting.

0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:55.600
<v Speaker 3>So that's where we started.

0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:59.480
<v Speaker 2>We started talking about the use of speaking directly to camera.

0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.440
<v Speaker 2>We loved this idea of this Greek chorus that really

0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:07.920
<v Speaker 2>represented the fact that the queer community was omnipresent, that

0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.280
<v Speaker 2>it was everywhere, and that we could use that as

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.959
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful little signpost for our audience to sort of say, look,

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.840
<v Speaker 2>they are a Greek chorus. They give us important information,

0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.839
<v Speaker 2>but also just to say we were everywhere. We were

0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 2>in the halls of Parliament, we were on the streets,

0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.400
<v Speaker 2>we were in our hospitals, we were in We're just everywhere.

0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.880
<v Speaker 2>So we took that piece one of the other really important,

0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:33.720
<v Speaker 2>beautiful components to this story was of course talking about

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>a community that was grieving and traumatized and in free fall,

0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.480
<v Speaker 2>not knowing what this disease was going to do and

0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.800
<v Speaker 2>how it was being transmitted in those early days.

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:47.520
<v Speaker 3>But what we didn't know is this.

0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Grieving community would find its hubs. In some ways, those

0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.000
<v Speaker 2>pop songs that were of that era became anthemic to

0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.840
<v Speaker 2>that community. It was a way for them to sort

0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.360
<v Speaker 2>of take a breath and really look at the fact

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.920
<v Speaker 2>that they exist and that those communities were there. And

0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.160
<v Speaker 2>we wanted to embed that and embrace that in the show.

0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 2>And so what evolved was this beautiful chorus of characters

0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.679
<v Speaker 2>who one speak directly to camera and to also perform

0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:23.320
<v Speaker 2>these fantastic eighties iconic songs, which was so much fun.

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.200
<v Speaker 1>So much fun, and it also offers a little bit

0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.440
<v Speaker 1>of relief to some of the darker moments of the show.

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 1>But I just think it highlighted to me the importance

0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:34.520
<v Speaker 1>of music within the LGBTI community and the power of anthems.

0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.840
<v Speaker 1>As you said just then, I think those those things

0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.920
<v Speaker 1>have been so instrumental in the gay community and finding

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.920
<v Speaker 1>our home and finding our place to be ourselves. A

0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of the songs that were chosen represent well for me.

0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 1>I grew up in the eighties as well. I just

0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.680
<v Speaker 1>every time i'd hear the first few bars of the songs,

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 1>I'd be like transported to that time.

0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.200
<v Speaker 2>It's funny because in some ways, you know by the

0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.760
<v Speaker 2>time it goes to where I've seen the show h

0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 2>of times in different iterations, and every time I'm like,

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.800
<v Speaker 2>oh God, I hope this doesn't ruin my favorite song

0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.480
<v Speaker 2>that I'm hearing it a thousand times, but it hasn't.

0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 2>One of the interesting things about this is I've done

0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of hours of television, but I've never made a musical.

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 2>And I really went into this saying to ABC and

0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.160
<v Speaker 2>all of the sort of decision makers, look, you're just

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 2>going to have to trust.

0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 3>Me on this one.

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't know what I'm doing when it comes

0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.040
<v Speaker 2>to the musicals, I sort of do, but I've never

0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.360
<v Speaker 2>made one, and I think that was a huge learning

0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:32.880
<v Speaker 2>for me.

0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 3>It was, but I made sure.

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.080
<v Speaker 2>That I surrounded myself with the best and Elliot Wheeler,

0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.680
<v Speaker 2>who was the composer and did all the arrangements and

0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the recordings for all the musical numbers had just come

0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 2>off Elvis, so I knew I was in good hands.

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow. I was sitting there with my partner at

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.040
<v Speaker 1>one point and I turned over and said, at one point,

0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 1>I was like, Oh, it's kind of a bit American

0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Horror Story in a way where the characters are allowed

0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.160
<v Speaker 1>to break into song, and just it's important for that

0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.840
<v Speaker 1>to be there in the story. Did you have anything

0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:07.040
<v Speaker 1>like American Horror Story or maybe other shows that it

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.440
<v Speaker 1>influenced that decision to have singing in it.

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Look, there's a bunch of those movies that we've all

0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 2>watched that we've loved. The fine line that you tread

0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.880
<v Speaker 2>is that you can't have the style over substance. And

0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:20.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, you can imagine in those very early days

0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.280
<v Speaker 2>of developing this, we've probably had three times as many

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 2>songs in the show, but you just can't. You need

0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.200
<v Speaker 2>to make sure you've got that balance right. Ultimately, we're

0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:34.560
<v Speaker 2>telling a serious drama, so we can't let the playfulness

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.280
<v Speaker 2>of those songs outweigh the importance of this story and

0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.240
<v Speaker 2>the people that were involved. Don't forget, this is inspired

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.800
<v Speaker 2>by true events, so all of those characters have their

0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.960
<v Speaker 2>roots in real people, real events. For us, it was

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.080
<v Speaker 2>very important that we honored that and we respected it.

0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.080
<v Speaker 2>We didn't want anybody to walk away from this feeling

0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.360
<v Speaker 2>like they'd been misrepresented, but we did want to make

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.800
<v Speaker 2>sure that we had something that, like you said, wasn't

0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:07.439
<v Speaker 2>the dark ordeal. We wanted to have those moments of

0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.679
<v Speaker 2>lightness and also just allowing the audience to sort of

0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.680
<v Speaker 2>just take a breath and just enjoy it and hopefully

0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.240
<v Speaker 2>in the execution of the way that we've done those

0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 2>songs too, just makes it a far more interesting drama.

0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:22.159
<v Speaker 1>The other thing I was going to mention is the

0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 1>casting is just so brilliant. Was it important or was

0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.480
<v Speaker 1>it a choice to have some relatively unknown actors in

0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:32.439
<v Speaker 1>this series over maybe some other more recognizable Australian actors.

0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Yes, what was more important to us was where we

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.200
<v Speaker 2>could we cast queer for queer. You know, that was

0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:44.199
<v Speaker 2>important to us that we had people that really resonated

0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.080
<v Speaker 2>with this material, really understood that this was going to

0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.119
<v Speaker 2>be the show that was a safe place, you know,

0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I think from in front of the screen and behind

0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.640
<v Speaker 2>the screen. That was an ambition of ours to sort

0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.359
<v Speaker 2>of give as many opportunities to our queer community to

0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.359
<v Speaker 2>sort of help contribute to telling this story, and I

0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:06.000
<v Speaker 2>think it just made the whole process so.

0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:06.920
<v Speaker 3>Much more enjoyable.

0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 2>And that's that's only because it felt like a safe place.

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I think we innovated behind the scenes

0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:19.359
<v Speaker 2>as well, conscious and respectful of pronouns and trauma and

0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, all of those sort of things that you

0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:26.000
<v Speaker 2>know in a production machine are sometimes not ignored, but

0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.199
<v Speaker 2>I think they're not. They don't have as much of

0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.240
<v Speaker 2>a priorities as we made them have on this show.

0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.600
<v Speaker 2>But the casting was amazing, and what a beautiful process. Sadly,

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, what was really amazing was just seeing all

0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 2>of those casting tapes and seeing how passionate the cast were.

0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.600
<v Speaker 2>The actors that were actually auditioning for the roles. You know,

0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.719
<v Speaker 2>we heard some amazing stories. And normally it's just they

0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.560
<v Speaker 2>auditioned the scene and that's it. But so many of

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.640
<v Speaker 2>the people that were auditioning wanted to take that opportunity

0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 2>to one welcome the show and embrace the show, but

0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.200
<v Speaker 2>also maybe tell a little bit of a personal story too,

0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.480
<v Speaker 2>And that was beautiful and I feel very privileged to

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:06.920
<v Speaker 2>heard those stories.

0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.359
<v Speaker 1>What have you made of the debate over you know,

0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.199
<v Speaker 1>gay characters should always be played by gay actors, you know.

0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Was that a part of the process when you're putting

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:14.280
<v Speaker 1>this down.

0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:19.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't really have an opinion around, like, obviously, my

0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.240
<v Speaker 2>my feeling is it's great if you can find if

0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.960
<v Speaker 2>you've got a gay character, then obviously for me, the

0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.800
<v Speaker 2>preference would be to some who can actually resonate at

0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:32.080
<v Speaker 2>a personal level. And I certainly don't criticize other shows

0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.560
<v Speaker 2>or other productions that cast people in straight roles. I

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.679
<v Speaker 2>just think for me, it's an ambition of mine. You know,

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.120
<v Speaker 2>there's so many different factors to how somebody gets that role,

0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:47.439
<v Speaker 2>from the financing through to you know, availability and talent

0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:49.760
<v Speaker 2>and skill and all of those sort of things. But

0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.479
<v Speaker 2>we were just I say, lucky, but it was it

0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:56.080
<v Speaker 2>was quite strategic in just you know, trying to do

0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.159
<v Speaker 2>that as much as we could. I think the flip

0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:04.040
<v Speaker 2>to that is that I wonder if actors now make

0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.560
<v Speaker 2>more considered choices around roles that they go and test for.

0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.360
<v Speaker 2>We've seen that over the last few years in Hollywood,

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.760
<v Speaker 2>especially where actors that I have played queer roles but

0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.360
<v Speaker 2>might identify as straight are coming up now and sort

0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.399
<v Speaker 2>of saying, look if it was twenty twenty three. I

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.440
<v Speaker 2>probably wouldn't have tested for that role or taken that role.

0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.200
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's just an evolution of Hollywood itself

0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 2>and also the educated audience. Our audiences have far greater

0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:34.399
<v Speaker 2>access to information, their film language is a lot more evolved,

0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.720
<v Speaker 2>so I think they expected as well.

0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.439
<v Speaker 1>Tim sensational in this as well, and he's really the

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.800
<v Speaker 1>backbone to the story. I wanted to know, did you

0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:43.960
<v Speaker 1>see him in Jag A Little Pill, which I also

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.399
<v Speaker 1>thought he was sensational in.

0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:46.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean I've been following Tim for quite some time

0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:52.000
<v Speaker 2>and I think it was a natural fit. And certainly

0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:56.199
<v Speaker 2>I know now having worked with him, how excited he was.

0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, you don't know that stuff. All you sort

0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.560
<v Speaker 2>of get as a tape. You have a couple of conversations,

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.240
<v Speaker 2>but then at the end of this process you sort

0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:05.880
<v Speaker 2>of sit down and you have a chat to Tim

0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.760
<v Speaker 2>and you realize, actually Tim knew that he was right

0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:09.359
<v Speaker 2>for this role.

0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.639
<v Speaker 1>Well. Story is quite heavily focused on the way on

0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.560
<v Speaker 1>which the Australian government handled the arrival of the AIDS virus.

0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Was that a bit scary to be responsible to tell

0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.040
<v Speaker 1>that part of the story accurately.

0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was, and we had a bunch of people

0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:28.520
<v Speaker 2>working behind the scenes. Obviously it's still a fictional piece,

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.399
<v Speaker 2>but what we wanted to do was to honor the

0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:36.040
<v Speaker 2>sentiment and the chronology of the events that took place. Look,

0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:41.160
<v Speaker 2>in four hours, we can't cover every meeting, every argument,

0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:45.639
<v Speaker 2>every poll, every sort of thing. We had to really

0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:50.399
<v Speaker 2>pick and choose our moments. We've had to concertina some

0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.600
<v Speaker 2>of those moments into meetings, but ultimately our goal was

0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:56.399
<v Speaker 2>to make sure that the message was going to be

0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:59.080
<v Speaker 2>clear and that it was still going to be compelling.

0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:04.159
<v Speaker 2>From the beginning. There was always the fact checking around this.

0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.919
<v Speaker 2>I think one of the things that we regret but

0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.840
<v Speaker 2>we couldn't do anything about is just in four hours

0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.840
<v Speaker 2>we sort of had to really stay to stay true

0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.199
<v Speaker 2>to the story, the queer story, the queer version of

0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:18.919
<v Speaker 2>events on this There were so many other players and

0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.159
<v Speaker 2>so many other communities that were affected by AIDS at

0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.119
<v Speaker 2>that time. We give nods to them in the show,

0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:29.000
<v Speaker 2>but ultimately we sort of start to our very core story,

0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.919
<v Speaker 2>and ultimately we also wanted to make sure we had

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 2>rings to tell that beautiful love story as well.

0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which you do effortlessly you know, it all seems

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.879
<v Speaker 1>to come together quite easily. How do you remember because

0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 1>I was you know, I was born in nineteen eighty,

0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:46.040
<v Speaker 1>so I very clearly remember the commercial with the Grim

0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Reaper and the fear that that put into Australia. And

0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:51.800
<v Speaker 1>I remember being in my lounge room. I think I

0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:54.560
<v Speaker 1>might have been seven or eight, and I remember my

0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.479
<v Speaker 1>mother and my stepfather fighting over if they were going

0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.600
<v Speaker 1>to ring a phone number to complain of the ad,

0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:05.399
<v Speaker 1>and there was very opposing arguments to complaining about that commercial.

0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:08.200
<v Speaker 1>What was your relationship with that commercial when it came

0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:10.120
<v Speaker 1>out and what did that do to you and your

0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 1>story with this?

0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, I would have been probably thirteen, I think when

0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 2>that campaign came out, But and I remember being just

0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:21.680
<v Speaker 2>as horrified.

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:23.159
<v Speaker 3>But I also didn't know who I was.

0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:27.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what's interesting about that is I didn't know

0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.720
<v Speaker 2>how to describe myself at that point. But having watched

0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:36.040
<v Speaker 2>that commercial, I was always worried, you know, But I

0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:37.719
<v Speaker 2>look at it now and I look at where they

0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:41.600
<v Speaker 2>got to and why that was such an important component

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:45.360
<v Speaker 2>of the AID story in Australia, And you know, I'm

0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:49.080
<v Speaker 2>forever grateful for it, for the fear campaign and for

0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:51.120
<v Speaker 2>what it did. You know, the fact that you had

0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.879
<v Speaker 2>federal government by the time slot on every channel to

0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.080
<v Speaker 2>make sure that there was no way you could miss

0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:03.040
<v Speaker 2>this ad really punctuate the importance and the urgency of

0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:05.280
<v Speaker 2>getting people to be aware that.

0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:06.720
<v Speaker 3>This wasn't just a gay disease.

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:10.600
<v Speaker 2>I think it would be really interesting to explore like

0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:14.600
<v Speaker 2>our obviously our show finishes at that point, but looking

0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.520
<v Speaker 2>at the impact of that campaign for a decade after

0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.160
<v Speaker 2>that is probably another story that I'd like to tell.

0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that that kind of a commercial would

0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:26.399
<v Speaker 1>work today? And I don't necessarily mean in relation to

0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:30.600
<v Speaker 1>HIV or AIDS? Do you think that kind of confrontational

0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:32.520
<v Speaker 1>type of warning still would work?

0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:34.200
<v Speaker 3>Good question. I don't know.

0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:37.320
<v Speaker 2>I haven't really thought about it, you know, I think

0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:41.040
<v Speaker 2>there's so many different platforms now, you know how I

0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:43.240
<v Speaker 2>don't have the answer to that. I guess my question

0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.280
<v Speaker 2>back to that is how would it work? You know,

0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:50.360
<v Speaker 2>where does your audience sit. We had in the eighties,

0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:52.920
<v Speaker 2>when you only had a handful of channels, you had

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:56.760
<v Speaker 2>a captive audience, So it was quite a good way

0:24:56.840 --> 0:25:01.560
<v Speaker 2>to sort of just expose the the crisis to an

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:06.240
<v Speaker 2>audience in a very very mainstream way now with so

0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:09.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, the platforms are so fragmented, the way that

0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:13.640
<v Speaker 2>people get their entertainment, get their content is so much

0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:17.479
<v Speaker 2>so diverse. Now, I don't know what that would look like,

0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:20.439
<v Speaker 2>but look, shock tactics will always work. I guess it

0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:25.800
<v Speaker 2>sparks debate, it sparks conversation. It does create stigma, it

0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:29.080
<v Speaker 2>does create fear. But you know, as our catch line

0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:34.000
<v Speaker 2>for the series is fear it made infectious, but courage

0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:37.280
<v Speaker 2>is contagious. And I feel like that's where we sort

0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:39.880
<v Speaker 2>of came to with this show, is you know, people

0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:43.760
<v Speaker 2>that fear brought this issue out into the open. It's

0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:46.679
<v Speaker 2>just that I feel very grateful that at the highest

0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:49.399
<v Speaker 2>levels of government we had people who were just seeing

0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:53.000
<v Speaker 2>this as a disease and not a cultural blight.

0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:55.879
<v Speaker 1>Well, for me, I don't really like censorship, you know,

0:25:56.040 --> 0:25:57.720
<v Speaker 1>and I think that these days there's a lot of

0:25:57.720 --> 0:26:00.560
<v Speaker 1>people coming out there with cancel culture and ship when

0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:04.040
<v Speaker 1>things where i'mlike, you know, oh please, you know, when

0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:06.399
<v Speaker 1>we don't need to be wrapped in cotton wool, you know,

0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:07.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't think I.

0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:11.359
<v Speaker 2>Think yeah again, I think it's a really interesting time.

0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:14.800
<v Speaker 2>I think the pendulums swung to sort of a cancel culture.

0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:18.440
<v Speaker 2>At the moment, I'm much more in favor of correction culture.

0:26:19.480 --> 0:26:22.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, I don't think it's about getting letting people

0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:26.520
<v Speaker 2>get away with sort of outlandish sort of views or

0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:31.160
<v Speaker 2>sort of but I do think that there is Once

0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:34.200
<v Speaker 2>the conversation stops, it's very hard to get people back

0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:34.960
<v Speaker 2>in the room together.

0:26:35.080 --> 0:26:36.760
<v Speaker 3>So, you know, I.

0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:39.440
<v Speaker 2>Think it's it's it's a tricky one.

0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:40.800
<v Speaker 3>It's a very gray area.

0:26:40.880 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 1>It really is. It really is. And I am kind

0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:44.680
<v Speaker 1>of running out of time, so I'm going to quickly

0:26:44.680 --> 0:26:46.639
<v Speaker 1>get to the last question, but I will say just

0:26:46.720 --> 0:26:50.000
<v Speaker 1>before I get to that, that this show is something

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 1>that I think the wider community will appreciate. And I

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.120
<v Speaker 1>think anyone that's listening to this to give this show

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:59.120
<v Speaker 1>an opportunity to watch it, because it's it's very potent,

0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:02.720
<v Speaker 1>but it's very and it's very entertaining, and I think

0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:04.680
<v Speaker 1>that's not an easy thing to do when you're handling

0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:07.280
<v Speaker 1>subject matter like this. So I hope people listening to

0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:09.359
<v Speaker 1>this want to take that chance on it. Everyone who

0:27:09.480 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 1>joins the podcast, I asked them this question, what is

0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:15.560
<v Speaker 1>something that happened behind the scenes kind of maybe like

0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:17.920
<v Speaker 1>a behind the scenes secret or an anecdote that we're

0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:21.120
<v Speaker 1>as an audience won't see that we might appreciate to hear.

0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 3>I did think about this.

0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:25.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't have one specific one, only to say that

0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:29.760
<v Speaker 2>for me, this show was the most visible show that

0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:32.680
<v Speaker 2>we've ever shot. And what I'm talking about is every

0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:35.080
<v Speaker 2>time we're on the streets. I thought it was really

0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:37.760
<v Speaker 2>fun to see we shot something that was said in

0:27:37.800 --> 0:27:42.399
<v Speaker 2>the eighties, and then you add drag queens and our

0:27:42.480 --> 0:27:47.160
<v Speaker 2>queer community, with usless chaps walking around as extras and

0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:53.040
<v Speaker 2>gim masks and you know, great mission brown suits, it

0:27:53.119 --> 0:27:55.800
<v Speaker 2>was probably the most visible, you know. I just remember

0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:58.680
<v Speaker 2>sitting there and clocking just how many people would stop

0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:01.120
<v Speaker 2>and watch us shoot.

0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Or ask what are we doing? What are we shooting?

0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:08.000
<v Speaker 2>And normally now people are getting used to sort of

0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:11.959
<v Speaker 2>having films on streets, and I just thought it was

0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.000
<v Speaker 2>a real interesting observation that I had where I've never

0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:17.440
<v Speaker 2>been on a show that's had so much attention from

0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:20.399
<v Speaker 2>the beginning, and it was really supportive, you know, Like

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:22.600
<v Speaker 2>I thought that was The other bit was that I

0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:24.800
<v Speaker 2>was never scared. I felt like we've created a safe

0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:27.879
<v Speaker 2>space for our cast and crew, but also there was

0:28:27.880 --> 0:28:32.040
<v Speaker 2>something really encouraging about people walking past and being genuinely

0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:34.840
<v Speaker 2>interested in the story and us telling them a little

0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:37.640
<v Speaker 2>bit about what the story was. I never received any

0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:40.280
<v Speaker 2>negative feedback, and I really like that, you know, because

0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:42.800
<v Speaker 2>sometimes we can fall into a hole or our bubble

0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:45.000
<v Speaker 2>and think that this is just us speaking to our

0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:48.240
<v Speaker 2>own community. But ultimately, you know, it was a great

0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:51.440
<v Speaker 2>reset for me to go no, no, Actually, at a

0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:54.280
<v Speaker 2>base level, we as humans just care about each other.

0:28:54.400 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 2>So I know it's not a funny one. I know

0:28:56.920 --> 0:29:00.400
<v Speaker 2>it's not a great secret, but it was one of

0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:03.680
<v Speaker 2>those things that I think was quite unique to this show,

0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:04.360
<v Speaker 2>so I loved it.

0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:06.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, speaking of being a storyteller, I have been in

0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:08.880
<v Speaker 1>your audience for a very long time and will be

0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:11.480
<v Speaker 1>for a long time to come. Keep telling stories like this.

0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:13.360
<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to see what you do next.

0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Me too, And look the callers out like, I'm ready

0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:18.760
<v Speaker 2>for it. I've come up for it now I'm ready

0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:21.160
<v Speaker 2>to find the next one. So yeah, thank you, Ben,

0:29:21.280 --> 0:29:21.880
<v Speaker 2>great chatting