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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. Now, Yellow Wiggle

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Speaker 1: Emma Watkins, known by kids all around the country these

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Speaker 1: days as Emma Memma, joins me on the podcast today

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Speaker 1: to chat Wiggles and a new project that every parent

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Speaker 1: will want to know about, in collaboration with Audible. I

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Speaker 1: am so excited, Emma Watkins. I've spoken with some pretty

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Speaker 1: high profile people on the Happy Families podcast over the years,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know too many that would be as

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Speaker 1: warmly welcomed by our Happy Families audience as you. So

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Speaker 1: good to have you on the pod. Thanks for being here, Thank.

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Speaker 2: You for having me justin.

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Speaker 1: That was a lovely and truth Well, I think that

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Speaker 1: it's well deserved. Let me start with the Wiggles, iconic group,

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Speaker 1: serious performers, and you wore the yellow jersey for close

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Speaker 1: to a decade. I feel like I'm Somedden. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about the Tour de France. You wore the yellow jersey.

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Speaker 1: Do you call it a jersey, a jumper, a sweater?

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Speaker 1: What do you call it?

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Speaker 2: Well, we used to call it a sk but then

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Speaker 2: when we were tour in North America, that kind of

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Speaker 2: means your underwear, so then we would always say yellow shirt.

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Speaker 2: So you know, you do have to be careful about

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Speaker 2: you know how you refer to the s giv in

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Speaker 2: different countries. Well.

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Speaker 1: As a keen cyclist, I'm going to go with the

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Speaker 1: yellow jersey.

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Speaker 2: I just like, Okay, yeah, I like that. I like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're also the first female Wiggle as well.

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Speaker 1: I know that you've told this story a lot, but

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Speaker 1: there's going to be a whole lot of parents who

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Speaker 1: listen to the Happy Families podcast that don't know how

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Speaker 1: you became a Wiggle. Can you walk us through the

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Speaker 1: story of becoming the first female Yellow Wiggle or becoming

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Speaker 1: the first of the non original Wiggles as well? If

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Speaker 1: I recall correctly, how did that happen? And as you

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Speaker 1: look at that decade, what are your memories like, how

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Speaker 1: do you reflect on that time now that you've moved

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Speaker 1: on to other things.

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Speaker 2: Oh? Look, it was an amazing experience and I spent

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Speaker 2: my whole twenties at the Wiggles, So it feels like

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Speaker 2: the biggest apprenticeship of my whole life. I feel like

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Speaker 2: that was my college, that was my university situation. But

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Speaker 2: essentially I graduated school and went to film school because

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Speaker 2: I had an injury even though I was a dancer.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to be concise here. So I grew up

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Speaker 2: as a dancer, went to film school, did film, went

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Speaker 2: back to UNI, did film and dance. Went back to

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Speaker 2: dance full time, and then auditioned for a range of shows.

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Speaker 2: And this audition for the Wiggles came up, and I'd

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Speaker 2: already auditioned for them before but hadn't been successful. And

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Speaker 2: they were looking for a fairy, and I had fairy

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Speaker 2: esque care and happiness and ballet training, and I got

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Speaker 2: the job. So I worked with the Wiggles for about

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Speaker 2: a year and a bit as a fairy doing Dorothy

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Speaker 2: the Dinosaur Wags a dog, and then all of a

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Speaker 2: sudden I was on the road with the original Wiggles

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Speaker 2: and it was a dream come true. I was a

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Speaker 2: Wiggly dancer. I played lots of instruments and then I

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Speaker 2: just randomly, one day before a show in Sydney, got

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Speaker 2: asked to be at wiggle That's honestly what happened.

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Speaker 1: Just in the corridor, backstage, that's random's.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just backstage, just in my dressing room, yeah, brilliant

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Speaker 2: and for the first time in Wiggle history a female wigle.

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Speaker 1: Let's ever what everyone? An amazing experience and obviously the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to touch so many lives. Since then, parents, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm skipping through this so fast, but there's so

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Speaker 1: many things I want to talk to you, and this

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Speaker 1: is the podcast for the type or parent who just

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Speaker 1: wants answers. Now since then, parents have slightly older kids

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Speaker 1: may be less familiar with Emma Memma. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: us about her? Because you graduated? Graduated? Is that the

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Speaker 1: right word? You moved on from the Wiggles Emma Memma

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Speaker 1: walk us through the Mmemma character? What that is? Who

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Speaker 1: that is? For parents who may not be familiar with

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Speaker 1: the evolution of Emma Watkins.

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Speaker 2: So I left the Wiggles in twenty twenty one after

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Speaker 2: a big chunk of time, you know, not touring because

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Speaker 2: of the pandemic. So at that moment in my life,

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Speaker 2: I was already parallel studying my PhD integrating sign language

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Speaker 2: and Dance for children, and so I had more time

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Speaker 2: to study. But also I recognized that my research was

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Speaker 2: becoming important and we needed to finish it. So I

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Speaker 2: decided to leave. I focused on my PhD and through

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Speaker 2: that research came male brand new children's character and venture

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Speaker 2: called Emma Memma, which essentially is all music, all dancing,

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Speaker 2: where visual communication is at the forefront of the media,

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Speaker 2: so we highlight sign language and gesture, visual language, and

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Speaker 2: of course dance.

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Speaker 1: I love this. So you've highlighted that you're no longer

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Speaker 1: just just a wiggle or just Emma Memma. Please forgive

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Speaker 1: the pejority of with just that's a complimentary thing, but

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Speaker 1: rather you've done more Again these days you're also doctor

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Speaker 1: Emma Watkins. I'm fascinated when you've already got this incredible

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Speaker 1: I'm going to call it a showbiz career. Why a PhD?

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Speaker 1: And you've hinted that there's a lot of inclusivity sign

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Speaker 1: language and music. How do these things come together? How

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Speaker 1: did you turn that into a PhD? I just love

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Speaker 1: that whole academic story, if you can help me with that.

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Speaker 2: So it's a good question, justin because I feel like

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Speaker 2: my life has been very in parallel with UNI and

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Speaker 2: also performing, but probably because at school and I went

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Speaker 2: to a performing arts high school in Sydney, we were

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Speaker 2: always told have a plan B, make sure you've got

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Speaker 2: other things going on. Because even when I was auditioning

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Speaker 2: for different shows like Cats or Wicked, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was at university at UTS studying media in the hope

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Speaker 2: that I could work in a production company, and I

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Speaker 2: was earning money editing for other production companies on the side.

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Speaker 2: So when I finished at UTS, I had an amazing

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Speaker 2: mentor and he said to me, I think you should

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Speaker 2: do a PhD. Because you've got such a unique skill

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Speaker 2: set in dance. And I kept doing all of my

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Speaker 2: assignments as dance films. So clearly was only interested in

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Speaker 2: one thing, even though at the time at the university

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Speaker 2: I was told by somebody higher up, oh, you can't

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Speaker 2: do dance and film, and so I think from that

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Speaker 2: point on I was like, nah, I think I'll just

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Speaker 2: do it. And then when I joined the Wiggles, I

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Speaker 2: was able to film and edit and also perform, so

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Speaker 2: I had the ability to do both and so through

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Speaker 2: that One of the amazing researchers that I was researching

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Speaker 2: at the time was from America, doctor Karen Perlman, and

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Speaker 2: she was a dancer in her life. She is a dancer,

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Speaker 2: and she wanted to learn about and teach how dancers

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Speaker 2: have a specific intuition with editing, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: that's weird because I feel like that, as in, I

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Speaker 2: don't I like filming, but it's not my full I

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Speaker 2: really love editing. And so when I researched her, I

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Speaker 2: don't know how this came about, but she magically was

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Speaker 2: now living in Australia and teaching at the Maccrorie University.

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Speaker 2: So I contacted her and explained my life story growing

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Speaker 2: up with dead friends and always having an interest in

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Speaker 2: sign language, and how can sign language and dance and

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Speaker 2: film editing be brought together to help visual communication for children?

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Speaker 1: Can we do a lightning round quick questions, quick answers? Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, Lightning round Question number one, as the yellow Wiggle,

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Speaker 1: what is your favorite wiggle song?

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Speaker 2: Ooh, I really like the Giraffe, but mostly because live

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Speaker 2: we had blow up giraffes going out into the audience,

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Speaker 2: so that was pretty fun and the children loved it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, part two of that question that's just popped in

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Speaker 1: mind as you say that, what was the song that

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Speaker 1: you would sing at concerts that got the biggest response

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Speaker 1: from the two to five year old set.

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Speaker 2: That's a good question. I mean it would change all

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Speaker 2: the time. I mean mostly Rocker by Yu Bear, Hot Potato,

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Speaker 2: do the Propeller things that people were like, yes, I'm

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Speaker 2: into this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm in Hot Potatoes just become a classic,

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Speaker 1: hasn't it. It's yeah, exactly, it's gonna last for decades

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Speaker 1: and decades. Do the audience go crazy at screaming the

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Speaker 1: same way that they might at a Billie Eilish concert concert?

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Speaker 2: Really absolute, It's just a different pitch for three year

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Speaker 2: olds rather than you know, thirteen twenty three.

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Speaker 1: And what's the weirdest or most unique talent you have?

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Speaker 2: I can do precision driving.

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Speaker 1: As in like a like kind of rally cars.

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Speaker 2: Style, like rally cars. My dad's a rally navigator and

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Speaker 2: I grew up doing precision driving on skid pans.

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Speaker 1: That is unexpected. I love it. What's the worst advice

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Speaker 1: you've ever received?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Probably, like before, don't do dance and film at

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Speaker 2: the same time, or you can't do both, or don't

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Speaker 2: have extra hobbies.

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Speaker 1: I want to come back to something that you said

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Speaker 1: about having the backup shortly, but two more questions have

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Speaker 1: a lightning round. First, Okay, what's one thing that you've

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Speaker 1: learned about yourself since leaving the.

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Speaker 2: Wiggles that I think I've got more to give And

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Speaker 2: in the last three years I've done so many different

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Speaker 2: projects that I never would have dreamed of, and I've

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Speaker 2: met so many people that I've just had the best

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Speaker 2: and busiest three years of my life.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of busy, I mean PhD, Wiggles, mm A memo

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Speaker 1: now the new collaboration with Audible Rally Driver apparently as well,

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Speaker 1: and who knows what else you're doing. What's your go

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Speaker 1: to self care ritual when you need to recharge?

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Speaker 2: I hopefully when I get home. You know, I'm on

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Speaker 2: tour a lot. But when I'm home, I like going

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Speaker 2: out to visit my goats in the paddock and actually

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Speaker 2: just hanging out with them. You have property, well, we

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Speaker 2: don't necessarily we live in the country, but my goats

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Speaker 2: because we didn't have a fence when we moved here.

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Speaker 2: They live with my friend down the road who has

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Speaker 2: fourteen other rescue goats, and so they're in a herd

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Speaker 2: and so I go and visit them.

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Speaker 1: I love this. This is just I can imagine that

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Speaker 1: the Daily Mail is going to have some fascinating fun

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Speaker 1: with our conversation. Emma Malkins hangs out with the Goats.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to something that you said earlier, Emma,

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Speaker 1: before we move on to my last two questions. You

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Speaker 1: highlighted that your university lecturers and people around you always said,

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Speaker 1: if you want to go and do I call these,

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Speaker 1: I guess, vanity occupations, occupations where everybody wants to do it,

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Speaker 1: but only a very small percentage of the people who

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Speaker 1: want to actually get to do it. So whether it's

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Speaker 1: radio or media, or dance or music or being an

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Speaker 1: influencer or a streamer or whatever, these are things where

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Speaker 1: there's millions of people who are saying, Oh, I want

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Speaker 1: to do that so bad, I want to be a

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Speaker 1: Hollywood actor, but you end up waiting tables because it's

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Speaker 1: just so competitive, so hard to get into. My advice

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Speaker 1: generally for younger people, I give a lot of talks

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Speaker 1: in schools to year ten, year eleven, year twelve, especially

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Speaker 1: as school starts to move towards completion. My advice is often,

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Speaker 1: don't listen to people like me who have followed my dream,

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Speaker 1: because people who follow their dreams some of them make it,

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Speaker 1: and they're the ones that stand up on stage and say,

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Speaker 1: follow your dream. Follow your dream. Follow your dream. But

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who follow their dream

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Speaker 1: and end up waiting tables, so to speak. And so

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Speaker 1: my argument to them is, go on, select a career

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Speaker 1: where ninety plus percent of the people who want to

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Speaker 1: do it can do it, and then get into the

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Speaker 1: top five or ten percent, Like, just be really really

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Speaker 1: good at that and pursue your hobbies. On the side,

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Speaker 1: you and I both had the joy and the privilege

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Speaker 1: of doing things that we absolutely love despite the odds.

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Speaker 1: And what I'd love to ask of you is is

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Speaker 1: that good advice or is that bad advice? How do

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Speaker 1: you respond to that question?

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate that justin because I think it's always

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Speaker 2: a moment in your life. You know, when you have

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Speaker 2: some experience or you're old enough to have self reflection

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Speaker 2: and go, okay, let's be realistic about you know, where

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Speaker 2: I'm going to make money and how what's my livelihood?

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Speaker 2: And I know that seems basic, but it's true, like

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Speaker 2: how do you survive and work and you know, be

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Speaker 2: with your family and you know, do the things that

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Speaker 2: you love. But there is a moment where you do

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Speaker 2: have to be realistic about potentially not getting that first dream,

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Speaker 2: and I really admire some of the people that I

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Speaker 2: went to school with that also dance with me. And

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Speaker 2: my whole life was dance. Like I can't express it enough.

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Speaker 2: All I did was dance. I just loved dance. And

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Speaker 2: there was so many other people in my class that

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Speaker 2: now don't dance, but they've used their skills in a

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Speaker 2: very smart way to do something slightly on the outskirts

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Speaker 2: and have nailed life. One of my really good friends

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Speaker 2: who grew up with me as a dancer, and you know,

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Speaker 2: everyone's dream in the dance school is to dance, of course,

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Speaker 2: but she was one of those people that recognized that

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Speaker 2: she could bring her dance skills to another industry and

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Speaker 2: she ended up being a sign language interpreter. She qualified

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Speaker 2: before me. She'd seen that I was doing sign language

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Speaker 2: and was like, yeah, maybe I could do that, but

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Speaker 2: I wasn't doing it in a serious way at that time.

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Speaker 2: She went and did all of her exams and now

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Speaker 2: in Australia she's one of the most sought after performing

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Speaker 2: arts sign language interpreters. You'll see her on social media everything,

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Speaker 2: and she is nailing it. She's not performing as a dancer,

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Speaker 2: but she's using her skills that she learned to bring

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Speaker 2: that to a whole new set of audiences.

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Speaker 1: And making a beautiful contribut at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and living, you know, earning money, being in front

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Speaker 2: of a crowd. There is a sense of performing, you know.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate that, But her skill set is slightly different

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Speaker 2: now than what she was training for, you know, when

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Speaker 2: she was eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Emma, I'd like to ask you a personal question if

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Speaker 1: I can. The majority of our listeners are mums, many

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Speaker 1: of whom will have experienced fertility challenges or know somebody

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Speaker 1: who has. You've been quite open about your own experiences

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Speaker 1: with dmetriosis and the challenges that presented during your time

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Speaker 1: with the Wiggles and probably even subsequent to that. Can

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Speaker 1: I ask you to maybe share a little bit around that.

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Speaker 1: Hows that shaped your perspective on resilience and self care

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Speaker 1: and advocating for your own needs and even even decisions

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Speaker 1: that you have to make on a personal level about

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Speaker 1: what your family is going to look like as you

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Speaker 1: move forward, how you're going to live your life. What's

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Speaker 1: that like in your circumstances.

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Speaker 2: Look, I was probably very ignorant to my body for

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Speaker 2: a long time, mainly again, as a dancer, you just

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Speaker 2: kind of work through pain. I think that's just a

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Speaker 2: you know, that's just a subset of training and working

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Speaker 2: your body to a point where you know when you're

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Speaker 2: even when you're stretching, obviously there's a level of pain

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Speaker 2: and you push through. And so for many, many years

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Speaker 2: when I was touring, I didn't realize that I had

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Speaker 2: endometriosis or symptoms of endometriosis at the time. But then

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Speaker 2: when things got really bad, then I started to look

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Speaker 2: into it. And then it got to the point where

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Speaker 2: I couldn't perform and I had to have a surgery.

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Speaker 2: Whereas I think now, if I was presented those symptoms,

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Speaker 2: I would have loved the opportunity to maybe not have

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Speaker 2: the surgery, but I knew at that time there was

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Speaker 2: no other option. So I had a surgery and through

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Speaker 2: the surgery was diagnosed with stage four ENDO. And you know, really,

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Speaker 2: when I think back, I don't even know how I

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Speaker 2: missed that, Like, how did I not realize There are

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Speaker 2: a lot of asymptomatic you know, situations where you don't know,

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Speaker 2: but mine was terrible and I wasn't stopping to look

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Speaker 2: after myself. So it has taught me to be a

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Speaker 2: little bit more kind. And also I'm a go getter

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Speaker 2: and I love doing seventeen things at the same time.

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Speaker 2: But I do recognize that rest and sleep and being

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Speaker 2: home and being with the goats is just as important.

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Speaker 1: I love that the goats need to feature problem in

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Speaker 1: this conversation, maybe even in maybe in the title of

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Speaker 1: the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah they can, they can.

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Speaker 1: Emma, thanks for sharing that you've recently done something new

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Speaker 1: that I'm really interested in talking to you about. And

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Speaker 1: as soon as I saw the email about this, I

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Speaker 1: just thought, my audience will love this. I actually wanted

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Speaker 1: to create something with my soothing voice doing the same

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Speaker 1: sort of thing that you're doing. I never did it,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think that I am the right person

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Speaker 1: for it, but I think you are. You've collaborated with

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Speaker 1: Audible and created something called a Dream for Every Night.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about a dream for every Night? And what's

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Speaker 1: if I can be so corny, is to say, what's

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Speaker 1: your for how it's going to fit in with families

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Speaker 1: who are so busy and so torn and so so stretched.

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Speaker 2: Look, I take my hat off to all parents anyway,

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Speaker 2: because I don't know how parents do it. And mostly

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Speaker 2: I think about my sister in law with her two

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Speaker 2: little boys. And you know, the projects that come to us,

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Speaker 2: you know always think, you know, what, are they going

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Speaker 2: to love it? You know, are they going to be interested?

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Speaker 2: And that when this project came across, I thought, wow,

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Speaker 2: what an amazing collection of stories. So essentially, A Dream

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Speaker 2: for Every Night is the title of a book that's

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Speaker 2: created by author Angela Cassabeni. And there are one hundred

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Speaker 2: and sixty stories, so it's not just a few, just

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty of them. And so we decided

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Speaker 2: to go through and choose our favorite ones, and we

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Speaker 2: chose forty stories that actually start the podcast or the audiobook,

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Speaker 2: and we read these stories and have added amazing you know, soundtrack,

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Speaker 2: animal noises, ambience, and music. And I'm hoping that the

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Speaker 2: audiobook can be enjoyed by families just before bedtime. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you could listen to it at any time. I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying that you have to listen to it at the

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Speaker 2: same time, but I hope that families enjoy this as

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Speaker 2: a way to set the dreams off into the night.

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Speaker 1: Emma, as I've looked at the work that you've done

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Speaker 1: and the career that you've already had, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: there's so much more in the future. I just I

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Speaker 1: think your inspiration. I love what you've done. I have

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Speaker 1: so so, so, so many more questions that I would

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Speaker 1: love to ask you, but because this is the podcast

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Speaker 1: for the time poor parent who just once answers now

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Speaker 1: and we have already gone over time. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: indulging those questions. Thanks for your generous answers, and thanks

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Speaker 1: for the great work you do and the inspiration and

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Speaker 1: joy that you bring to so many, not just to

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Speaker 1: strained families, but families around the world. I just I

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Speaker 1: congratulate you on an amazing life so far.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Justin, I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Emma Watkins former Yellow Wiggle Emma Memma and now host

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Speaker 1: of the audible series A Dream for Every Night. Your

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Speaker 1: kids will love it. You probably love laying down beside

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Speaker 1: them and listening to it as well. You will fall asleep,

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Speaker 1: but you'll enjoy every single story. Emma. Great to be

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Speaker 1: with you. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 1: Roland from Bridge Media. For more information about the things

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Speaker 1: we've talked about today, we'll link to several of these elements,

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Speaker 1: particularly the Audible series A dream for every night in

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Speaker 1: the show notes, and if you'd like more andful about

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Speaker 1: making your family happier visitors at happyfamilies dot com dot

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Speaker 1: au