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Speaker 1: As you would have heard throughout the week, there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of coverage about the Defense Strategic Review which

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Speaker 1: the federal government released earlier in the week, and I

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Speaker 1: think the big question out of the Northern Territory has

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Speaker 1: been what is it going to mean for the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: We know that the top end and indeed Darwin incredibly

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Speaker 1: strategically important. Now joining me on the line is doctor

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Speaker 1: John Coyne, the head of the Northern Australia Strategic Policy

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Speaker 1: sent Doug.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, John, morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Firstly, how important was it that this review happened?

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Speaker 2: Look at it was really really important. I guess many

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Speaker 2: of many listeners will sort of sit there and go

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Speaker 2: as I do occasionally go. You know, no government has

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Speaker 2: ever released a report that they haven't said, is, you know,

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Speaker 2: the most important in a generation or a decade or

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Speaker 2: something else like so true on this occasion. You know,

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Speaker 2: we face on uncertain times, We face a strategic environment

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Speaker 2: that is really uncertain, something we haven't seen a long

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Speaker 2: long time, and you know, my best assessment is it's

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Speaker 2: going to probably last decades. So this is really, I

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Speaker 2: guess a refocus for defense for someone who, as you know,

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Speaker 2: and we've talked about before. I'm passionate about Northern Australia

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Speaker 2: and I believe that, you know, it's economic and social

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Speaker 2: prosperity is important to Australia's national security. So when I

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Speaker 2: read the Defense Strategic Review, I'm really happy with each focus.

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Speaker 2: It's certainly provided a great deal more focus on the

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Speaker 2: importance of Northern Australia, more so than a Defense Strategic

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Speaker 2: Update in twenty twenty, and certainly has more clarity than

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Speaker 2: probably since nineteen mid nineteen eighties when Paul gid wrote

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Speaker 2: his white paper. So I guess the message here is

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Speaker 2: is that it makes a clear statement that we need

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Speaker 2: not just the fixed bases and target hardening in Northern Australia,

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Speaker 2: but troops and capabilities need to be there. But also

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Speaker 2: it makes reference to infrastructure like transport, like roads as well.

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Speaker 1: Now, John tell us, you know, obviously, like you've just

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Speaker 1: touched on, we all know that Northern Australia is so

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Speaker 1: strategically important. I mean, even if you just look at

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Speaker 1: where we are geographically. But there's been some discussion about

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Speaker 1: whether it's going to mean more troops for us or

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Speaker 1: what it's going to mean for US in terms of,

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Speaker 1: you know, the level of defense personnel that we've got

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Speaker 1: here in the Northern territory. Are we going to see

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Speaker 1: an increase? Do you reckon?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think you know the short answer that is is,

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Speaker 2: I think there will be at least some increase in

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Speaker 2: troops in Northern Australia in general, and certainly that's a

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Speaker 2: reversal of what we've seen over the last decade. But

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Speaker 2: I think the real investment, in the real story is

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Speaker 2: one about investment in in bases and in linking those

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Speaker 2: bases together and creating a network of fully operational bases

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Speaker 2: across Northern Australia. That means certainly for the average territory

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Speaker 2: who's looking for evidence of what it mays, that means

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Speaker 2: an economics spend on instruction in Northern Australia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now tell me as well. I know that there's

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Speaker 1: been some discussion and you're much more of an expert

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Speaker 1: in this space than what I am, but they've been

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Speaker 1: a discussion and certainly been you know, mentions of us

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Speaker 1: having sort of Australia more generally having sort of more

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Speaker 1: capacity when it comes to missiles rather than you know,

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Speaker 1: rather than if there was you know, I guess a

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Speaker 1: war on you know, on Australian soil. So having that

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Speaker 1: capacity with missiles, et cetera. Do you think that that

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Speaker 1: could mean that we here in the Northern Territory might

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Speaker 1: indeed be a base for that kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: for that kind of weaponry.

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Speaker 2: I do think it means that, but it's a that's

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Speaker 2: a sort of a complex question. So I want to

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Speaker 2: there's a couple of sort of dimensions to it. The

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Speaker 2: first one is is, you know, what we've learned from

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Speaker 2: the war in Ukraine is that logistics are important, So

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Speaker 2: the capacity to have enough in case of a conflict,

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Speaker 2: having enough ammunition, food, water, fuel. Okay, So a lot

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Speaker 2: of this investment is about manufacturing missiles in Australia. Now

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Speaker 2: I've been an absit here, you know, I would love

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Speaker 2: to see that sort of manufacturing done in Northern Australia.

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Speaker 2: It creates jobs, it's a great location to do it,

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Speaker 2: and it's a great place to live for those people

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Speaker 2: working in the industry. I think, however, you know, if

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Speaker 2: I'm being very honest to those listening, I don't think

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Speaker 2: that that we're going to see missiles being manufactured in

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Speaker 2: Northern Australia. My second point though, is that a lot

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Speaker 2: of this we talk about it in terms of conflict.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's sort of saying, you know, this VSR is about conflict,

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Speaker 2: and there can be no doubt it's about increasing our readiness.

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Speaker 2: But what people have got to understand is, you know,

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Speaker 2: whether it's missiles or whether it's the Defense Strategic Review,

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Speaker 2: it's part of a broad sky hole of government effort

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Speaker 2: and an effort between Australia and our allies to deter

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Speaker 2: future conflict. So it's not just about missiles, it's also

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Speaker 2: about deterring conflict. Is also about the ployment and other issues,

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Speaker 2: but certainly to really go to the heart of your question,

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Speaker 2: so if you want to have a meaningful strike capability

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Speaker 2: and you want to base that so that to protect

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Speaker 2: our maritime approaches, then of course those sorts of capabilities

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Speaker 2: need to be based in Northern Australia. The other part

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Speaker 2: and component that most people misses. Northern Australia has some

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Speaker 2: of the best firing ranges and training ranges in the world,

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Speaker 2: and indeed Delamere Range is the best instrumented range in

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Speaker 2: the world as far as I know. And so as

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Speaker 2: a result of that, if there's someone somewhere where you

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Speaker 2: want to train, where you're able to use all of

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Speaker 2: the fifth generation warfare capabilities at once, including missiles, then

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Speaker 2: Northern Australia is that place.

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Speaker 1: Now, John, we know that China has responded to the

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Speaker 1: landmark Defense review. Was their reaction in line with expectations?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Look absolutely, But you know, let's put this in

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Speaker 2: really clear text. Okay, So the People's Liberation Army has

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Speaker 2: been undergoing one of the greatest modernization efforts in history.

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Speaker 2: So they are buying new weapons capabilities, they're getting more missiles,

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Speaker 2: they're getting more warships, et cetera. They've also gone about

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Speaker 2: after promising not to around militarizing islands in the South

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Speaker 2: China Sea, after promising not to put missiles and combat

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Speaker 2: aircraft on them, they're doing doing exactly that. There's a

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Speaker 2: great deal of irony in the response from the Chinese

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Speaker 2: government about you know this Australia using this as an

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Speaker 2: excuse to bolster its defense force. I mean, the pure

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Speaker 2: facts here are that the Chinese Communist Party is indeed

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Speaker 2: growing its military capability.

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Speaker 1: Now, John, this might be a little left field. We

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Speaker 1: know that the ship lift obviously here in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: The government has put aside a substantial amount of money

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Speaker 1: to build this shiplift facility. With the review, or as

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Speaker 1: I understand it, there's also going to be a food

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Speaker 1: review I think into the type of vessels that's still

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Speaker 1: set to happen. Is there any risk that the ship

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Speaker 1: lift for the Northern Territory could be made redundant?

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Speaker 2: Look, I don't think so. I certainly, well, I'm not

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Speaker 2: deeply involved in the calculation and of specific widgets and

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Speaker 2: lifting capability. It's certainly the specifications of the planned ship

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Speaker 2: lift are large enough that they can be used on

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Speaker 2: a range of vessels ranging from and you know, the

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Speaker 2: ship lift itself isn't all about isn't all about lifting

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Speaker 2: the military boats out of the water. It's also about

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Speaker 2: you know, the Perlings lead that operates in Northern Australia.

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Speaker 2: It's around range of other ships. So look, I think

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Speaker 2: that the ship lift itself doesn't run a risk of

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Speaker 2: being obsolete. I think it's a much needed piece of

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Speaker 2: infrastructure and one en whichment the program itself needs to

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Speaker 2: be accelerated and one of the key one of the

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Speaker 2: key factors in the Defense Strategic Review that the peat

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Speaker 2: there is that you're not only is the North important,

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Speaker 2: but you know, we actually need to move fast to

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Speaker 2: do these improvements in bases and ports and in terms

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Speaker 2: of infrastructure, we need to do it quickly.

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Speaker 1: Well, doctor John Coyn, It's always great to catch up

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Speaker 1: with you, and we always appreciate the fact that you

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Speaker 1: make these kinds of things quite easy for us all

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Speaker 1: to understand, because I think that, you know, sometimes in

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Speaker 1: these discussions just sort of wonder just how much has

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Speaker 1: been politicized and what it all means to a place

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Speaker 1: like the Northern Territory. So we always appreciate you, you know,

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Speaker 1: making it nice and easy for us all to understand.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Caurtie.

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Speaker 1: Always a pleasure, great to catch up with you. Thanks John,