WEBVTT - Does the AFL have a homophobia problem?

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is this is the Daily This is

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<v Speaker 1>the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday,

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<v Speaker 2>the twenty first of August. I'm Zam Kazlowski.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Emma Gillespie.

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<v Speaker 2>Adelaide Crow's star Isaac Rankin is set to miss a

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<v Speaker 2>number of matches that could rule him out of the

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<v Speaker 2>AFL finals. This comes after he used a homophobic slur

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<v Speaker 2>against a Collingwood player during their match last weekend, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's the sixth homophobic slur incident in the AFL since

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<v Speaker 2>April of twenty twenty four. On today's podcast, we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to dive into the incident itself, the widest sporting and

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<v Speaker 2>social context dominating conversations in the sport, only two weeks

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<v Speaker 2>out from the season's final series, and what happens next.

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<v Speaker 3>We will get into all of that and more after

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<v Speaker 3>a quick message from today's sponsor.

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<v Speaker 2>Sam.

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<v Speaker 3>We're talking today about this homophobic slur incident in the AFL,

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<v Speaker 3>But before we get to what happened, let's talk about

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<v Speaker 3>the player at the center of this controversy. Now, for

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<v Speaker 3>myself and novices alike, I had not heard about Isaac

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<v Speaker 3>Rankin until this incident. I am not really an AFL girly,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's certainly a story that's been dominating headlines, so

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<v Speaker 3>I really want to understand more.

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<v Speaker 1>But tell me about Isaac Rankin, the player.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it's fair to say that if you

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<v Speaker 2>are an AFL fan, but also if you're from Adelaide,

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<v Speaker 2>you would know the name Isaac Rankin. Ok He's a

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five year old forward and midfielder for the Adelaide Crows.

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<v Speaker 2>He's considered one of their best players. He spent four

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<v Speaker 2>seasons his first four seasons at the Gold Coast Suns

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<v Speaker 2>before he made the move to Adelaide in twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>He's one of their highest paid and most marketable players,

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<v Speaker 2>so the type of player you would see on the

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<v Speaker 2>poster as you drive through Adelaide or fly into Adelaide Airport. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>many AFL observers say that this year has been his

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<v Speaker 2>best season in the league, and if we look at

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<v Speaker 2>the team in general, it's fair to say Adelaide is

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<v Speaker 2>the best team in the competition right now. Okay, they

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<v Speaker 2>are top of the ladder and they're set to play

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<v Speaker 2>in their first final series since twenty seventeen. They haven't

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<v Speaker 2>won a premiership since nineteen ninety eight. So for a

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<v Speaker 2>football mad town like Adelaide, this is a really big

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<v Speaker 2>deal and a very big time of year.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So we're talking about a really high performing player

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<v Speaker 3>on the most dominant team on the ladder this season.

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<v Speaker 3>He's having a great season, the club's having a great season.

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<v Speaker 3>But this isn't really a story about football. It's not

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<v Speaker 3>a story about how high performing a player he is.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about something much more sinister, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So during Adelaide's match against Collingwood on Saturday nights

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<v Speaker 2>last weekend, it's alleged that Ranken directed a homophobic slur

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<v Speaker 2>at an opposition player. The AFL's Integrity Unit launched an investigation,

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<v Speaker 2>and on Tuesday night, Channel nine's Eddie McGuire reported that

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<v Speaker 2>Rankins season is over. His theory there is that the

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<v Speaker 2>AFL sets a hand down a five match suspension.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So why would a five match ban be so

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<v Speaker 3>significant for Adelaide at this time?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Adelaide, as I said, is sitting on top of

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<v Speaker 2>the ladder. They're heading into finals. There's one match left

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<v Speaker 2>in the regular season. Then they have a maximum of

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<v Speaker 2>four games in the final series, the qualifying final, semifinal,

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<v Speaker 2>preliminary final, and then the Grand Final, obviously assuming they

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<v Speaker 2>make it there. So what that means is that a

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<v Speaker 2>five match suspension would rule Rankin' out for the entire

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<v Speaker 2>finals campaign, and for a team with their best show

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<v Speaker 2>at the Trophies since the late nineties, that is a

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<v Speaker 2>big blow to the club.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, Now, of course this is all context for the

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<v Speaker 3>media storm that has ensued around this incident. It's not

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<v Speaker 3>necessarily excusing any of the alleged behavior, but I think

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<v Speaker 3>it's helpful to understand this side For me, kind of

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<v Speaker 3>being an outsider, understanding all of the controversy in hype

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<v Speaker 3>around this decision. That finals context is certainly critical.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you and I had a chat about that

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<v Speaker 2>before we came in to record this. It felt funny

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<v Speaker 2>to start this podcast with an explanation of the football

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<v Speaker 2>side of things. But as you say, I do think

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<v Speaker 2>it's important in placing this story in the context of

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<v Speaker 2>the discussions that we're about to have.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, pausing there though, specifically about the Isaac Cranken decision,

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<v Speaker 3>This isn't the first incident of its kind.

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<v Speaker 1>When we're talking about the AFL is it.

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<v Speaker 2>No, And that's also important context. So this is the

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<v Speaker 2>sixth recent homophobic slur incident in the competition, and the

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<v Speaker 2>pattern shows that escalating penalties, So a five match ban

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<v Speaker 2>six match ban isn't actually working. So the latest string

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<v Speaker 2>of incidents began with Port Adelaide player Jeremy Finlayson in

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<v Speaker 2>April of last year. He received a three match ban.

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<v Speaker 2>A couple of weeks after that, Gold Coasts will Be

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<v Speaker 2>Howe got five matches when the AFL explicitly warned at

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<v Speaker 2>that stage of further consequences for other players who would

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<v Speaker 2>be found guilty of something like this.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Then this year we had Saints player Lance Collard, he

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<v Speaker 2>got a six match ban. West Coast Eagle player Jack

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<v Speaker 2>Graham got four matches in July. His ban was lower

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<v Speaker 2>because he self reported the incident to the AFLA and

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<v Speaker 2>that was taken into account by the body as a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a mitigating factor there. Sure most recently, Sydney's

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<v Speaker 2>Reac Andrew received five matches and that was just weeks

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<v Speaker 2>before his club's pride game.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so a very concerning pattern of behavior across the league.

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<v Speaker 3>We're not talking about an isolated culture problem within one club.

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<v Speaker 3>You could argue that there is a culture problem right

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<v Speaker 3>across the league. So we have a precedent of this behavior,

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<v Speaker 3>We have a precedent in terms of penalties for that behavior.

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<v Speaker 3>What has the Adelaide Football Club said about the incident

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<v Speaker 3>regarding its player.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, in the statements released by the Adelaide Football Club

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<v Speaker 2>since the incident, they have come out and said that

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<v Speaker 2>they don't condone any sort of homophobia in sport, and

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<v Speaker 2>they've given kind of the cavets we expect now from

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<v Speaker 2>clubs responding to this kind of incident. But at the

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<v Speaker 2>same time, they've launched a major defense to the AFL,

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<v Speaker 2>hoping to get the length of the ban reduced. At

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<v Speaker 2>the moment, it sounds like what they're hoping for is

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<v Speaker 2>a four match ban instead of five, to make Rankin

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<v Speaker 2>potentially eligible for the Grand Final should they be there.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the primary arguments is that Rankin faced

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<v Speaker 2>aggressive verbal attacks from Collingwood players before the incident, including

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<v Speaker 2>comments allegedly made regarding Rankin being knocked out by competing

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<v Speaker 2>player Dan Houston last year when he was playing at

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<v Speaker 2>the time for crosstown rival club Port Adelaide. He signed

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<v Speaker 2>with Collingwood this season.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So hang on, just take me back for a second. There,

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<v Speaker 3>we're saying that Adelaide Football Club are kind of trying

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<v Speaker 3>to defend the slur or defend the place that Ranken

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<v Speaker 3>was in when he made the comment by suggesting that

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<v Speaker 3>he was agitated, That he was agitated because he himself

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<v Speaker 3>had suffered a really horrific head knock last year by

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<v Speaker 3>a Collingwood player. He wasn't a Collingwood player at the

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<v Speaker 3>time exactly, but that he was face to face with

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<v Speaker 3>that player and that that may have stirred up certain

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<v Speaker 3>feelings in him.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that more than that, that the player and other

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<v Speaker 2>players were taunting him about that injury, okay, and basically

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<v Speaker 2>kind of riling them up. To put that in context though,

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<v Speaker 2>of professional sport, I think that players do this all

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<v Speaker 2>the time to each other without crossing lines that lead to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, being the feature of a podcast like this

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<v Speaker 2>is today. So that's not particularly unusual behavior.

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<v Speaker 3>So not to take away from you know, the seriousness

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<v Speaker 3>of these comments, but there was a serious head knock

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<v Speaker 3>last year for him. But what you're saying there is,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, that doesn't excuse responding with homophobia.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's up to the IFL to decide whether

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<v Speaker 2>it does or it doesn't. What I would say though,

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<v Speaker 2>is that I think if you asked any sample of

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<v Speaker 2>AFL players or players across any sport, there would be

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<v Speaker 2>a fair bit of verbal combat on the sporting field,

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<v Speaker 2>in the sporting arena. I think that's probably the same

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<v Speaker 2>case for the AFLW as well, and so they're mounting

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<v Speaker 2>that as their primary argument. Their secondary argument is, hang on,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not the same to ban a player for five games,

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<v Speaker 2>including four finals, as it is to ban a player

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<v Speaker 2>for five games which are just as part of the

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<v Speaker 2>regular season. And that case has never been really put

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<v Speaker 2>to the AFL before in this context. It's the first

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<v Speaker 2>time in the context of a homophobic slur, and they're

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<v Speaker 2>basically arguing that the nature of the games should be considered.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, puts the AFL in, I'm sure an incredibly difficult position.

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<v Speaker 3>But what about the reaction from players. Have we heard

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<v Speaker 3>from all those involved?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the captain of the Adelaid Football Club, his name

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<v Speaker 2>is Jordan Dawson, and he said that there wasn't a

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<v Speaker 2>cultural issue in the AFL. He said the situation was

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<v Speaker 2>not ideal. Those were his words. Then a teammate, a

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<v Speaker 2>senior teammate, Taylor Walker. He was on Triple M in Adelaide,

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<v Speaker 2>and he said that Rankin is quote very remorseful and

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<v Speaker 2>understands he's made a mistake and has isolated himself at

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<v Speaker 2>home during this investigation.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So a couple of maybe contrasting reactions from within

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<v Speaker 3>the same club, you know, one kind of dismissing that

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<v Speaker 3>there is a cultural issue across the league, another more

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<v Speaker 3>directly confronting the issue and reflecting remorse. But what about

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<v Speaker 3>Isaac Rankin himself? Has he responded directly?

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<v Speaker 2>We haven't heard from Rankin himself. We understand that he

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<v Speaker 2>called and apologized to the player at the receiving end

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<v Speaker 2>of his homophobic comments. We don't know who that player is, oh, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>but we do know there has been contact between Rancan

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<v Speaker 2>and this player. Rankin hasn't released any statement publicly though,

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<v Speaker 2>at the time of recording to do with this incident.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, So, Sam, you've given us a really good

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<v Speaker 3>insight into what happened last weekend what's followed in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of the fallout and the reaction. But I can't help

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<v Speaker 3>but think about those string of homophobic slurs that you

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<v Speaker 3>explained dating back to kind of April twenty twenty four,

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<v Speaker 3>several similar incidents in the year and a half.

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<v Speaker 1>Or so that has followed.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess to put it in simplest terms, does the

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<v Speaker 3>AFL have a homophobia problem?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, in April they released their first LGBTQI plus Inclusion

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<v Speaker 2>Action Plan, and in the front statement from the CEO,

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew Dillon, he writes, we know that historically the game

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<v Speaker 2>of AFL has not always been a safe space for

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<v Speaker 2>LGBTQI plus people, and if you look at the report overall,

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<v Speaker 2>it clearly acknowledges that not enough has been done in

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<v Speaker 2>the sport to make it a safe place not only

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<v Speaker 2>for players on the field, but coaches, staff and fans,

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<v Speaker 2>and it outlines the step that it wants to take

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<v Speaker 2>to improve that. Now, the really important piece of context

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<v Speaker 2>here is that the AFL remains the only major professional

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<v Speaker 2>male sporting code in the world to have never had

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<v Speaker 2>an openly gay or bisexual player past or present. Wow,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a remarkable statistic, especially when you consider that tens

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<v Speaker 2>of thousands of players have come through the game since

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<v Speaker 2>it started in eighteen ninety seven, and in April of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, then CEO Gillan McLaughlin said there were

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<v Speaker 2>gay players in the sport, but and this is his words,

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<v Speaker 2>the pressure and the weight of being that person, of

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<v Speaker 2>being the first afl player who comes out and plays

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<v Speaker 2>as an out gay man was too much. It is

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<v Speaker 2>also worth mentioning that several members of the AFLW, the

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<v Speaker 2>women's competition, which only started last weekend, are openly part

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<v Speaker 2>of the LGBTQIA plus community.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I wanted to draw that comparison because I think it

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<v Speaker 3>says a lot. We've got the afl W and all

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<v Speaker 3>of the kind of inclusive messaging around that league, that competition.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it's all about visibility and empowering young girls

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<v Speaker 3>and including as many people as possible. And then this

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<v Speaker 3>really stark contrast of a league that is over one

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<v Speaker 3>hundred years old but hasn't yet had a player comfortable

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<v Speaker 3>or confident enough to openly come out.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. Advocacy organizations point to the use of pride rounds

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<v Speaker 2>as an example here. So the AFLW has a pride round.

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<v Speaker 2>It's in its fifth year now, and you know, this

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<v Speaker 2>provides a conversation point in the season, both visibly and

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<v Speaker 2>in the conversations happening in media and within clubs. But

0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:46.199
<v Speaker 2>this contrasts to the men's game where currently there's only

0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a single pride game, so one game within one round

0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.800
<v Speaker 2>that's played each year that's hosted by the Sydney Swans,

0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.800
<v Speaker 2>and that's in its ninth year, so we haven't seen

0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:00.239
<v Speaker 2>the expansion of that pride game format across the men's COMPETI.

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.400
<v Speaker 3>It's interesting, and you know, I'm sure a lot of experts,

0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.840
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people more qualified than me, will have

0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:11.360
<v Speaker 3>fascinating takes on you know, why the game is this way,

0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:16.120
<v Speaker 3>But any elite sport I think to understand its culture,

0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.400
<v Speaker 3>it is helpful to go back to the more grassroots

0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 3>community club level to understand the future of that game.

0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.920
<v Speaker 3>And there is some concerning data in that respect. When

0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.040
<v Speaker 3>we're thinking about Ozzie Rules. There was this Australian first

0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.120
<v Speaker 3>study I just quickly want to tell you about into

0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.160
<v Speaker 3>the participation of LGBTQ plus youth in sport, and what

0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.760
<v Speaker 3>we learned from that is it over half of LGBTQ

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:45.560
<v Speaker 3>plus young people have witnessed discrimination in sport, forty percent

0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.760
<v Speaker 3>have experienced it personally, and a twenty nineteen report found

0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 3>seventy three percent of male amateur AFL players aged between

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.439
<v Speaker 3>sixteen and twenty had heard their teammates using homophobic slurs.

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, this is kind of the bigger conversation

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.000
<v Speaker 2>to have and possibly its own episode of the podcast.

0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Is that we're talking about the elite level of sport,

0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.040
<v Speaker 2>but these are the role models of the game, and

0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.800
<v Speaker 2>we know that behavior is mirrored through all levels of sport,

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.440
<v Speaker 2>way down to junior sport for kids in primary and high.

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.680
<v Speaker 3>School, and all the way up to things like halftime entertainment.

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:22.960
<v Speaker 3>There is a bit of a conversation going on right

0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.520
<v Speaker 3>now about Snoop Dogg. He's been named as this year's

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 3>Grand Final entertainment. That decision has proved to be relevant

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:31.840
<v Speaker 3>to this story.

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how so. Well, Snoop Dogg has a documented history

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:40.239
<v Speaker 2>of homophobic statements, and I wanted to kind of encapsulate

0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.000
<v Speaker 2>this with a line from an editorial published by the

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Age newspaper in Melbourne yesterday. It says Snoop Dogg came

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.400
<v Speaker 2>up through the ranks of rapidom on a platform of sexist,

0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 2>misogynistic views. That may well have been the audience to

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.840
<v Speaker 2>which he was performing, but context comes into play here.

0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Many are questioning the choice on a day of family

0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.280
<v Speaker 2>entertainment interesting and basically it makes this case that on

0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 2>one hand, the AFL is suspending players for homophobic slurs

0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:12.040
<v Speaker 2>while simultaneously paying a large sum of money to an

0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.600
<v Speaker 2>artist who has used similar language. Now the AFL has

0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.400
<v Speaker 2>come out the CEO and said that Snoop would perform

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.680
<v Speaker 2>quote family friendly songs and suggested that some critics might

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:28.720
<v Speaker 2>actually be converted after the performance. It's not just LGBTQI

0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.720
<v Speaker 2>plus organizations raising concerns about Snoop Dogg performing. We've also

0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:36.600
<v Speaker 2>heard from violence prevention organizations with some of that misogynistic

0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 2>context in Snoop Dogg's lyrics too.

0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:40.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, not that it's funny.

0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.440
<v Speaker 3>I was just trying to imagine Snoop Dogg performing a

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.720
<v Speaker 3>family friendly version of drop It like a toot or

0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 3>Gin and Juice. I look forward to seeing what they

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.600
<v Speaker 3>come up with, Sam. This is a very serious case though,

0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.240
<v Speaker 3>So where does this leave us?

0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:57.520
<v Speaker 1>What happens next?

0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.240
<v Speaker 2>So the AFL is expected to announce the penalty today.

0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 2>These backroom conversations have been happening between the club and

0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.440
<v Speaker 2>the Code. Adelaide is expected to be given a bit

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.640
<v Speaker 2>of time to respond and potentially appeal the verdict. It's

0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.800
<v Speaker 2>a bit of an unorthodox negotiation process happening regardless of

0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.600
<v Speaker 2>the band, though we are now having this broader conversation. Clearly,

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 2>you know this is eleven years after the AFL made

0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.800
<v Speaker 2>a public commitment to eradicate homophobia. We're seeing a trend

0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.360
<v Speaker 2>at least in the last two years that is going

0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.560
<v Speaker 2>the wrong way. So I guess what happens with Rankin's

0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.840
<v Speaker 2>penalty today is of course going to be significant for

0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Adelaide's premiership hopes, but the broader cultural issues here clearly

0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.880
<v Speaker 2>are going to require more than individual punishments to resolve.

0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.280
<v Speaker 3>A fascinating story, and we'll keep an eye on it

0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.280
<v Speaker 3>and you can find all the updates in our sport

0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.840
<v Speaker 3>newsletter every single day that drops in your inbox. There'll

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:55.560
<v Speaker 3>be a sign up link in the show notes if

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:56.840
<v Speaker 3>you want to get around that.

0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:58.480
<v Speaker 1>That's all for today's deep dive.

0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.520
<v Speaker 3>We will be back later on with your evening news headlines,

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:03.200
<v Speaker 3>but until then, have a great day.

0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.600
<v Speaker 2>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Bunjelung Calkatin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily Oz acknowledges

0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate

0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.639
<v Speaker 2>island and nations. We pay our respects to the first

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.160
<v Speaker 2>peoples of these countries, both past and present.