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Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the Daily.

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Speaker 1: Ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Daily OS. It's Monday, the twenty sixth of August.

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Speaker 1: I'm Harry, I'm Zara. Starting today, you have a legal

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Speaker 1: right to ignore your boss. Legislation over concerns about modern

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Speaker 1: workplaces and smartphones invading personal lives is now in effect

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Speaker 1: giving workers the right to switch off. You can now

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Speaker 1: legally refuse a call or text from your boss, although

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Speaker 1: there are some limitations and exceptions. In today's deep dive,

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Speaker 1: we'll take a closer look at what's changing, what this

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Speaker 1: law means for workers and employers, and what the TDA

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Speaker 1: audience told us they think about the right to disconnect.

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Speaker 1: But first, Sarah, what's making happ lights.

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Speaker 2: The Northern Territory will have its fourth leader in two

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Speaker 2: years after the Labour government lost this weekend's election. The

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Speaker 2: Country Liberal Party defeated Labour in a decisive victory. CLP

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Speaker 2: leader Leofanochiaro will become the territory's next Chief Minister. In

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Speaker 2: her victory speech, she said, and I quote, the territory

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Speaker 2: of tomorrow will be better than the territory of today.

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Speaker 1: Health officials in Queensland have issued a warning amid what

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Speaker 1: it's called a significant surge in hooping cough cases. The

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Speaker 1: state has recorded more than seven thousand confirmed cases so

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Speaker 1: far this year, compared to one hundred cases this time

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Speaker 1: last year. Queensland Health Minister Shannon Fentman is urging the

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Speaker 1: community to get vaccinated, especially pregnant people. Vaccination during pregnancy

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Speaker 1: also protects the unborn. Baby, infants and older people are

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Speaker 1: among the most at risk of serious illness from hooping cough.

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Speaker 1: Fnaman noted there has been a steady decline in childhood

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Speaker 1: vaccination rates in recent years.

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Speaker 2: There are renewed fears of a regional escalation in the

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Speaker 2: Middle East after Israel and Hesbola exchanged fire over the weekend.

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Speaker 2: On Sunday, Israel said it preemptively struck quote terror targets

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Speaker 2: in Lebanon, from which Hesbola was planning to launch their

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Speaker 2: attacks on Israeli civilians after the US and Israel received

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Speaker 2: intelligence about an imminent attack. Hesbala confirmed on Sunday it

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Speaker 2: had fired more than three hundred and twenty rockets and

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Speaker 2: a large number of drones aimed at multiple sites in Israel.

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Speaker 2: The Iran backed group based in the south of Lebanon

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Speaker 2: claimed the attack was in retaliation for the killing of

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Speaker 2: one of its commanders last month.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news, the last captive elephant at South

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Speaker 1: Africa's National Zoo has been released back into the wild. Charlie,

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Speaker 1: the African elephant, was captured in Zimbabwe as a two

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Speaker 1: year old in nineteen eighty four. After forty years in captivos,

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Speaker 1: Charlie has now been moved to a ten thousand hectare reserve.

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Speaker 1: It follows lengthy negotiations between advocates and the South African

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Speaker 1: government after concerns were raised over the elephant's health. Charlie

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Speaker 1: will be supported by veterry experts as he gets used

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Speaker 1: to his new home before his planned integration into an

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Speaker 1: existing elephant community.

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Speaker 2: Harry, we are talking about the right to disconnect today

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Speaker 2: because these new laws have come into effect that are

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Speaker 2: aimed at protecting workers from being contacted by their bosses

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Speaker 2: after hours. I do think it would be remissive me

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Speaker 2: not to acknowledge that this is a funny chat for

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Speaker 2: us to have. I am an employer, you are an employee,

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Speaker 2: and so you know there might be some difference of

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Speaker 2: opinion when it comes to how this might work in reality,

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Speaker 2: but I'm very keen to jump into it and hear

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Speaker 2: all about it. So where did this story all come from?

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Speaker 1: So I think before we get stuck into it, I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to share some results from a poll we

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Speaker 1: did on tda's Instagram stories because we wanted to get

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Speaker 1: a bit of a sense of what the current situation

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Speaker 1: is for workers right around Australia. How often are they

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Speaker 1: getting contacted by their bosses?

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Speaker 2: Did you answer that question, Harry, I did not.

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Speaker 1: I decided to remain impartial being a really good journalist.

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Speaker 1: But we asked our followers how often does your boss

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Speaker 1: contact you out of work? And a huge shout out

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Speaker 1: if you're one of the seven thousand, four hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty people who responded in those twenty four hours that

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Speaker 1: we had our story up. So we love hearing from you,

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Speaker 1: so thank you so much. So here's just a quick

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Speaker 1: rundown of how you responded. Two thirds of you said

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Speaker 1: you're contacted by your boss outside of work at least sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Within that group, sixteen percent said it happens weekly and

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Speaker 1: six percent said it happens daily.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that is you know fairly quantitative research with

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Speaker 2: understanding the scale of I guess the problem that the

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Speaker 2: federal government has tried to find a solution to. Did

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Speaker 2: we have any kind of anecdotal stories, because this, I

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Speaker 2: mean doesn't tell us those sorts of stories from firsthand

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Speaker 2: experience what it's like to be contacted by your boss

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Speaker 2: out of ours.

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Speaker 1: We also had an option for people to share their

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Speaker 1: stories with us in the poll, so we heard from

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Speaker 1: workers across a range of industries, but we especially heard

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Speaker 1: from teachers, nurses, and hospitality staff. Lots of nurses and

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Speaker 1: hospital workers told us that they get messages right through

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Speaker 1: the night about shift work, and teachers told us about

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Speaker 1: having to be available to speak with parents outside of

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Speaker 1: their work hours or they might get a call from

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Speaker 1: the principal or the head of department, whoever it may be.

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Speaker 1: And there were so many stories to choose from when

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Speaker 1: it came to a standout, but the winner officially goes

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Speaker 1: to one of our audience members, Laura, a teacher, and

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Speaker 1: so Laura told us when she was pregnant and entering

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Speaker 1: labor literally giving birth, she got a call from her

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Speaker 1: boss to ask about whether she'd marked some exams for

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Speaker 1: a class and wait for it. It wasn't even her class.

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Speaker 2: Dear God, that one's fairly indefensible. I reckon that.

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Speaker 1: Is, so thank you for sharing that with us. Laura.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, you're right that one does take the cake.

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Speaker 2: But let's go back to the legislation itself. So it's

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Speaker 2: come into effect today, But what's the background here? When

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Speaker 2: were these reforms formalized in the first place.

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Speaker 1: The way we work in twenty twenty four is such

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Speaker 1: a different environment compared to workplaces twenty years ago. So

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Speaker 1: think we didn't have smartphones at the start of this century,

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Speaker 1: but we're all online now, We're a lot more contactable.

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Speaker 1: In fact, in theory, we're kind of at the fingertips

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Speaker 1: of our bosses twenty four to seven. So basically, the

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Speaker 1: government tabled some workplace reforms last year, which included a

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Speaker 1: proposal to address some of the concerns about employee expectations

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Speaker 1: outside of work hours, given that we live in such

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Speaker 1: an intrusive modern technology age, and a Senate committee had

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Speaker 1: examined the draft law and found that some workers were

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Speaker 1: being driven to exhaustion from some of the pressures about

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Speaker 1: being available at all hours of the day outside their

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Speaker 1: usual hours and the Committee handed down a report in

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Speaker 1: February that said that the right to disconnect was an

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Speaker 1: aspect of work life balance that needed to be protected legally,

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Speaker 1: and so the legislation was passed in that same month.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and you said that the government worked with unions

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Speaker 2: on this. What did they have to say about it.

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Speaker 1: Unions in particular said there was a need to ensure

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Speaker 1: work life balance was protected for Australians. I spoke with

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Speaker 1: Michelle O'Neill, who is the president of the Australian Council

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Speaker 1: of Trade Unions, who pointed to some research from the

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Speaker 1: Australia Institute that found the average employee works two hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty hours of unpaid over time in a single year.

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Speaker 1: The government drafted a law to give work is the

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Speaker 1: legal power to quote refuse to monitor, to read or

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Speaker 1: respond to work related stuff once they've clocked off.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and I mean I feel like it's sometimes being

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Speaker 2: positioned as a fairly black and white issue and that

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Speaker 2: like you should never contact your colleagues or your employees

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Speaker 2: outside of work hours. But what about, say the scenario

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Speaker 2: when someone calls in sick at a cafe and the

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Speaker 2: manager has to call around to fill that shift, Like,

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Speaker 2: is that sort of thing covered by the law.

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Speaker 1: It's a really good question and definitely one that's worth asking,

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Speaker 1: because you're right, it's not necessarily black and white. Things

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Speaker 1: do change, and so the law states there needs to

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Speaker 1: be this common sense test of whether contact is reasonable. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but what does that mean? Will a cafe owner get

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Speaker 1: sued for just asking some of their staff to backfill shift?

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Speaker 1: Or well, I get sued because I forgot my loggie

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Speaker 1: in over the weekend and I need to ask one

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Speaker 1: of my coworkers for it and I might be interrupting

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Speaker 1: their time at the beach. Or will use Zara get

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Speaker 1: in trouble for sending me an email on a Sunday night.

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Speaker 1: It's all very valid to us. So I asked the

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Speaker 1: Workplace Relations Minister Murray Wat what that could mean in

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Speaker 1: these types of scenarios.

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Speaker 3: Most people would say that it's reasonable for an employer

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Speaker 3: to call someone to see if they're available for a

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Speaker 3: shift when someone has just called in sick or something

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Speaker 3: like that. But it's not reasonable for someone to be

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Speaker 3: contacting someone when they're about to give birth and they

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Speaker 3: know that. And equally it's not reasonable I think for

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Speaker 3: an employer to be bombarding people with text messages and

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Speaker 3: emails well after their hours when they're not being paid.

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Speaker 3: That's what this comes down to, is that people work

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Speaker 3: when they're paid to work. I think everyone's prepared to

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Speaker 3: accept the odd phone call outside of working hours, but

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Speaker 3: if it becomes a pattern, and if it becomes really intrusive,

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Speaker 3: we say that people shouldn't be expected to put up

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Speaker 3: with that when they're not being paid.

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Speaker 2: And so I guess the other part of this is

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Speaker 2: the enforcement that so often this communication is happening between

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Speaker 2: an employer and an employee and it can be very

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Speaker 2: difficult to have the transparency or for the employee to

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Speaker 2: understand what avenues are available to them if this does

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Speaker 2: become an issue. So does the law actually set out

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Speaker 2: what to do if someone wants to make a complaint

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Speaker 2: about being contacted outside of work hours.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it does. So if someone feels like they're being

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Speaker 1: unnecessarily asked to do extra work and field calls from

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Speaker 1: their bosses, they can bring a complaint to the Fair

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Speaker 1: Work Commission. So that's basically the one stop shop for

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Speaker 1: workplace disputes around the country. The law can also work

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Speaker 1: in the opposite direction if a boss thinks their employee

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Speaker 1: is refusing to answer reasonable calls or take requests, they

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Speaker 1: can also take that matter to fair work.

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Speaker 2: Interesting and so, I mean we've spoken a lot about

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Speaker 2: the government and unions and their view on this matter.

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Speaker 2: What about the other side of the coin. How have

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Speaker 2: business industry groups, for example, responded to this new legislation

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Speaker 2: that is in effect from today.

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Speaker 1: Some business groups, the Australian Industry Group for example, have

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Speaker 1: warned there could be some unintended consequences as a result

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Speaker 1: of this law. Basically they're worried about bosses being overburdened

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Speaker 1: with more work or who are going to be too

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Speaker 1: scared to call their employees because of this new legislated right.

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Speaker 1: Innis Willis, the CEO of the Australian Industry Group, told

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Speaker 1: TDA in a statement there's no clear guidance around how

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Speaker 1: the law will potentially be interpreted by regulators and courts,

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Speaker 1: and the Coalition aren't exactly cheerleaders for the right to

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Speaker 1: disconnect either. In fact, Peter Dutton, the leader of the Opposition,

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Speaker 1: promised to get rid of it altogether if he wins

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Speaker 1: the next federal election.

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Speaker 2: I mean that would be a bit of a confusing

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Speaker 2: situation to be in for both the boss and the employee.

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Speaker 2: If the election changes and that legislation is repealed, it

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Speaker 2: will be fairly difficult to navigate.

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Speaker 1: I think so. And also what's worth noting is that

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Speaker 1: small businesses won't be affected until this time next year,

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Speaker 1: so anyone the lead there, Harry, so anyone who employees

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Speaker 1: fifteen or fewer people won't be impacted until August twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. But if the coalition does win government at

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Speaker 1: the next federal election, which is due by May next year,

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Speaker 1: then we could see a complete reshuffle. We could see

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Speaker 1: them not have to even consider this new law altogether.

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Speaker 1: It depends how the cards fall at the election, and

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Speaker 1: it depends how people vote at the ballot box.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just a fascinating story. I'm really

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Speaker 2: keen to understand the enforcement mechanism and how it will

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Speaker 2: actually work in practice, because I think many people agree

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Speaker 2: with the notion of it that there needs to be

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Speaker 2: this work life balance. But understanding and seeing over time

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Speaker 2: how it plays out, and certainly how many of these

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Speaker 2: cases actually do end up with a fair work commission

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Speaker 2: I think will be interesting to see.

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Speaker 1: And these employee groups will definitely be keeping it close

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Speaker 1: eye on that as well to see what happens on

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Speaker 1: a case by case basis when these different matters go

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Speaker 1: into fair work and what fair work does have to say.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it'll kind of be

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Speaker 1: up to them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, HARRYT. Look, I promise that I for one will

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Speaker 2: not be contacting you post five pm today, so you

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Speaker 2: enjoy your evening well.

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Speaker 1: From six pm I do have a date with the

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Speaker 1: Pilate studio, so good luck trying to reach me while

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Speaker 1: Bronte is teaching me all things stretching my own legs.

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Speaker 1: I need a lot of work on it.

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Speaker 2: So oh, look at that. Fair enough, What a good

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Speaker 2: reason not to respond to me. Thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for joining us today on the Daily OS. What do

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Speaker 2: you think about this piece of legislation? Do you think

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Speaker 2: that it is fair? Do you think that it's unfair?

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Speaker 2: We want to hear you so you can respond in

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Speaker 2: the Spotify notes, but until tomorrow, have a great day.

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Speaker 2: Hope your boss doesn't contact you. Well Zach again tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: bungelung Caalcuton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: s right island and nations. We pay our respects to

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Speaker 1: the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.