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Speaker 1: We've just been speaking about with the opposition leader and

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Speaker 1: Ash heard on the show yesterday. We did indeed have

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister Attasha Files on the show talking a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about well, a review of police resources.

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Speaker 1: If you miss that interview yesterday, here's a bit of

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Speaker 1: what she had to say. Now the information that I've seen,

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Association said that they understand this

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Speaker 1: would not occur prior to the general election of government

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Speaker 1: in August twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Why would it not happen before the election.

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Speaker 3: So, Katie, we've got a new electronic rostering system which

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Speaker 3: is a huge part of that review, so that will

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Speaker 3: show us exactly where people are and where people need

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Speaker 3: to be in terms of that workforce. That should be

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Speaker 3: commenced by June this year. I think that once you've

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Speaker 3: got about six months worth of data, potentially you can

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Speaker 3: start to look at that and that ties into that

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Speaker 3: police resourcing piece. So at the moment it would not

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Speaker 3: be possible to have that concise overview territory wide. The

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Speaker 3: electronic rostering piece needs to come into play, and then

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Speaker 3: when we have a basis of data, we will start

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Speaker 3: to review those police resources.

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Speaker 1: So you're not committing to an independent review, Katie, happy

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Speaker 1: to work.

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Speaker 3: With the Police Minister and the Police Association around what

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Speaker 3: that shape of that review is. But we've absolutely said

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Speaker 3: that we will review those police resources because we'll have

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Speaker 3: important information that will help us drive change and so

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Speaker 3: that review will be independent. So Katie, that's a question

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Speaker 3: that I'll take on notice and work with the Police

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Speaker 3: Association and the Police Minister. I think you need to

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Speaker 3: have a level of understanding of police complexities.

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Speaker 1: Have got a message that had come through saying it

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Speaker 1: sounds as though it's going to be an internal review

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Speaker 1: from what the Chief Minister is saying around police numbers.

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Speaker 2: Is that your case.

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Speaker 3: I've said that just in responding to what I said

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Speaker 3: before that we do need to review this and understand

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Speaker 3: structurally what's going on. We need people to have confidence

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Speaker 3: in that. So I'll work through that with the police.

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Speaker 1: So that was the Chief Minister on the show yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Now joining me in the studio this morning is the

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Speaker 1: Independent Member for god At Kezia Puric.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Keezier morning Katie. Kisia.

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Speaker 1: What did you make of the Chief Minister's comments on

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Speaker 1: the show yesterday about this police review it's something we

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Speaker 1: spoke about on the week that was on Friday as well.

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Speaker 4: What I'm hearing from the Chief Minister is there is

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Speaker 4: some kind of review underway, because she said the electronic

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Speaker 4: rostering was part of the review. What review, Because in

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Speaker 4: the next breath the Chief Minster's saying she can't commit

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Speaker 4: where there is a review. Now it just sounds all

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Speaker 4: very strange. We sat here in the studio last Friday

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Speaker 4: when the member for Fanny Bay Labor member said there

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Speaker 4: was going to be an inquiry, not a review, an inquiry.

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Speaker 4: So we all put darriers up and he said, so

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Speaker 4: there is going to be an inquiry. I understand that's

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Speaker 4: part of what the Police Association wants to have happened,

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Speaker 4: an independent, outside, external inquiry or review, call it what

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Speaker 4: you want, because all of us know that if you

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Speaker 4: have an internal review, you will get a predetermined outcome. Now,

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Speaker 4: if the Chief Minister's suggesting that police undertake an internal review,

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Speaker 4: then we're not going to get the outcomes that people

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Speaker 4: in the Northern Territory deserve. They'll be a reviewing themselves,

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Speaker 4: they'll be doing their naval gazing. And it also seems

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Speaker 4: you know that the Chief Minister looking just at rostering

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Speaker 4: and starving. That's not what it's all about. There's been

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Speaker 4: two Police Association surveys of their members and predominantly it's

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Speaker 4: been about the toxic culture. It's been about the poor culture.

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Speaker 4: It's been about lack of leadership, poor leadership from the

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Speaker 4: executive from mister Chalk and mister Smallpage and others, no doubt.

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Speaker 4: So it's not just about resourcing. Sure, get an electronic

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Speaker 4: rostering system in. If it makes operations go more efficiently

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Speaker 4: and effectively, that's great, everyone would agree with that. But

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Speaker 4: an inquiry in review is more than that. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we've had only in the last couple of weeks mister

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Speaker 4: small Page saying at the Coronial down in Alla Springs

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Speaker 4: we need three hundred more police officers. Where how does

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Speaker 4: that number come from? So how does he know he

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Speaker 4: needs three more hundred if he hasn't done an inquiry

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Speaker 4: into actual resourcing.

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Speaker 2: So, Kezia, what do you think needs to happen here?

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Speaker 1: Because it does seem as though from the documentation that

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Speaker 1: I have seen, this seems to be a sticking point

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the EBA negotiations as well. For

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Association for the rank and file

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Speaker 1: of those officers, no doubt, what do you reckon needs

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Speaker 1: to happen?

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Speaker 4: Well, the Police Association is doing what they need to

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Speaker 4: do and they do that well, and that is to

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Speaker 4: act on behalf of their members and to leverage to

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Speaker 4: leverage the best deal possible for their members and the

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Speaker 4: police force generally. And I think they're doing that to

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Speaker 4: the best of their ability. Now that means lots of things.

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Speaker 4: That means more police on the ground. Let me take

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Speaker 4: you back to twenty twelve when there was a previous

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Speaker 4: reviewing inquiry. In that report they said we need one

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Speaker 4: hundred and twenty more police officers on the ground in

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Speaker 4: the high profile areas. Now, why are we still talking

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Speaker 4: about needing more police officers when they should have done

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Speaker 4: that twenty twelve. The other thing, Katie is last year

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Speaker 4: during estimates, the Police Minister provided a report which was

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Speaker 4: as a result of an inquiry into the health and

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Speaker 4: well being of the police force of the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 4: I got the distinct impression, because I was there in

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Speaker 4: the room that the police management didn't want that report

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Speaker 4: to go out and good on the minister. She gave

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Speaker 4: it to myself and to other members on the Estimates Committee,

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Speaker 4: what's happened with the recommendations in that report? Because that

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Speaker 4: report was about the health and well being, mental health

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Speaker 4: and wellbeing, job satisfaction, job dissatisfaction, et cetera, exit interviews.

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Speaker 4: Should you have them, should you haven't? What's happened to

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Speaker 4: that report? I haven't seen anything anything anywhere, and clearly

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Speaker 4: nothing from that report's been implemented because we wouldn't have

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Speaker 4: the results in the survey that we've now got from

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Speaker 4: the Police Association.

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Speaker 1: So standing is that the police were working through some

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Speaker 1: of those recommendations.

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Speaker 2: But I could be wrong on that.

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Speaker 4: They could be but jeez, I mean, we're going to

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Speaker 4: have the next Christmas by the time they get through it.

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Speaker 4: Like this is, as we've said on your shows, Katie,

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Speaker 4: this is at a critical point in our community.

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Speaker 2: Police are leaving.

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Speaker 4: We've got one hundred or so on stress health, mental leave, whatever,

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Speaker 4: we've got attrition. I think it's eleven percent year. We're

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Speaker 4: not seen as a desirable place for career move as

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Speaker 4: a police officer. And we've got people chucking figures around

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Speaker 4: like three hundred new police officers needed, five hundred million

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Speaker 4: more needed for resources, with no evidence, well, no substantiation

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Speaker 4: of that's not.

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Speaker 1: For GeTe as well that the public. You know, I

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Speaker 1: want the police to actually feel supported. They want there

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Speaker 1: to be enough police for them to be able to

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Speaker 1: do what's.

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Speaker 2: Being asked of them.

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Speaker 1: And if the government's not prepared to change any of

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Speaker 1: their policy settings to support the police or to ensure that,

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Speaker 1: you know that the.

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Speaker 4: Public will start to lose confidence. I have people come

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Speaker 4: in from time to time and they've had an issue

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Speaker 4: on their property and I've said, did you bring police?

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Speaker 4: And I said, no, it's no point. And they're not

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Speaker 4: attacking the police at all. No, they're saying there's no

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Speaker 4: point because we can't get them because it's not a rape,

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Speaker 4: pillage plunder kind of incident. But it does need police

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Speaker 4: attention because I always recommend to members to constituents go

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Speaker 4: and talk to police about the incident. Please let them

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Speaker 4: know that something's happened, because it might form a bigger picture.

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Speaker 4: But they're just saying there's no point. So there's a

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Speaker 4: whole lot of stuff out there. OK, it might be

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Speaker 4: small that's going unreported therefore unrecognized as an issue in

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Speaker 4: our society. Now people are wanting to support police, and

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Speaker 4: they do support police, but they're just saying there's no

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Speaker 4: hope because the government's not supporting them.

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Speaker 1: Kezia, can I ask I know that Leafanocchio said that

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Speaker 1: she's going to for a sixth time in Parliament next

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Speaker 1: week call for there to be an inquiry.

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Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that that's going to get up.

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Speaker 4: No, the government will just smash it down like they

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Speaker 4: normally do. The member, the leader or perhaps Jared Mayley

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Speaker 4: will get up and move it for an inquiry or

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Speaker 4: set up a select committee for example. Have there, say

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Speaker 4: for about five to two seconds, and then the lead

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Speaker 4: of gun Business probably shut it down. So that Sealpie's

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Speaker 4: got to come up with a different strategy if they

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Speaker 4: want to get the attention of the government and the

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Speaker 4: attention of the community, and maybe someone like myself is

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Speaker 4: an independent you know, giving up my work with the

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Speaker 4: police out the humpty dew wayh and elsewhere, is to

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Speaker 4: come up with something where we can get it onto

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Speaker 4: the agenda. So we're giving some serious thinking as to

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Speaker 4: how we can do that. That's myself and me and Hi. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: we're talking to each other and all three of the

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Speaker 4: all three of me, but it is a serious matter

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Speaker 4: and you know, like so if they're going to have

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Speaker 4: an inquiry, which obviously that's on the table because it's

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Speaker 4: been leaked out, leaked by Brent Potter, the Member for

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Speaker 4: Fanny Bay said it bite the bullet, do the inquiry.

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Speaker 4: The other thing that concerns me, Katie is I think

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Speaker 4: there seems to be a more than a more than

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Speaker 4: needed focus on the coronial happening in Alla Springs at

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Speaker 4: the moment. And the Member for Fanny Bay also said,

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Speaker 4: oh well, we can't do X y Z because they've

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Speaker 4: got to wait for the end of the coronial. Now

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Speaker 4: what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Does that mean the gun should be able to review

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Speaker 1: the Police center in terms of the numbers without.

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Speaker 2: Critical critical to.

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Speaker 4: The well being of our society and community. And I

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Speaker 4: think the government is hiding from something. I haven't worked

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Speaker 4: out what it is yet, but yes, definitely the police

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Speaker 4: executive should be held to account because they are the

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Speaker 4: executive at the top of the tree and they're responsible

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Speaker 4: for a huge, huge lot of things to do with

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Speaker 4: the police. And of course it's complex, you know, of

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Speaker 4: course it's maybe different, but it's just that it's different.

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Speaker 4: It's a different thing to tackle. I mean, the military's

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Speaker 4: complex as well, for example, and they're difficult, but they

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Speaker 4: can undertake inquiries pretty quickly when they have to, whereas

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Speaker 4: the government's dragging their feet on this, and I think

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Speaker 4: they just don't want to do it because they know

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Speaker 4: what the outcomes going to be. They know it's not

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Speaker 4: going to be good and positive.

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Speaker 1: And do you think that that's potentially why they don't

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Speaker 1: want to do it before the next general election?

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Speaker 4: Yes, because I mean, law and lord is always key

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Speaker 4: in any election, and people will go where they get

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Speaker 4: the best policy and best feel in regards to supporting

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Speaker 4: our law enforcement agencies. But I query why mister small

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Speaker 4: Page came out in a coronial. A coronial is about

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Speaker 4: what happened, where it happened, and why it happened, the

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Speaker 4: shooting of that mister Walker. Why did small Page come

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Speaker 4: out and say we need these extra police.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I don't know, but was it to

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Speaker 1: point out the fact that they're under resource.

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Speaker 2: Well, that is.

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Speaker 4: Under resourcing one of the contributing factors to the shooting

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Speaker 4: at univer I don't know. Let's see what the coroner

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Speaker 4: says at the end of the day. But if there

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Speaker 4: was three hundred short and they're five hundred million short.

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Speaker 4: Why hasn't the Police Executive been lobbing the government and

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Speaker 4: their minister to put it before budget this year. I

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Speaker 4: just find it a bit like shinishing shiny thing. Look

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Speaker 4: over here, don't look at the coronial key.

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Speaker 2: See we are going to have to wrap up. But

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Speaker 2: just very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of the COLP situation right now

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Speaker 1: with the President standing down over the voice and the

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Speaker 1: party's decision around the voice, but also the parliamentary wings

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Speaker 1: still sort of not determining exactly what they're going to do,

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Speaker 1: and they're wanting more info at this point.

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Speaker 4: I don't blame them for wanting more information, Katie, because

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Speaker 4: I've downloaded the document, the Karma and Langton report in

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Speaker 4: the old language. It's over an inch thick, and that's

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Speaker 4: double sided. It's a massive report. It's had a massive

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Speaker 4: amount of work put into it by presumably an army

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Speaker 4: of people. What I'm reading into that report is it's

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Speaker 4: going to be another at sick. There's going to be

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Speaker 4: layers and layers of bureaucracy, not only nationally but across

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Speaker 4: the States and into the Northern Territory. And whether we

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Speaker 4: get a fair representation on regional committees, anti committees' national committees.

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Speaker 4: I don't think we will if it was to get up.

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Speaker 4: I don't blame the opposition for asking for more information.

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Speaker 4: I can tell you now, Kadie. No one comes into

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Speaker 4: my office and talks about the Voice, and I've got

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Speaker 4: various different types of constitution, so I've got lots of

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Speaker 4: Aboriginal families that live in my area. No one comes

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Speaker 4: in to talk about the Voice except to say they're

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Speaker 4: not going to support it if it does come up.

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Speaker 4: And the reason they don't support it is because they

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Speaker 4: find it divisive, whether it's real or not so side issue.

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Speaker 4: And of course that I mean. Parties don't have to

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Speaker 4: take a position on this document. It's an individual referendum

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Speaker 4: and they will let their members do whatever their members do,

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Speaker 4: as I'm sure the Labor Party people willusy.

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Speaker 1: We are going to have to leave it there. I

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Speaker 1: always appreciate your time. Thank you so much for coming in,

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Speaker 1: and we'll see you Friday for the week.

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Speaker 2: That sounds good. Thank you,