1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: So you've probably had a lot of experience working from 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: home over the last twelve months, and if you're like 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: most people, your boss has probably asked you to come 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: back to the office at least for one or two 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: days a week. But what you maybe didn't realize is 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: that the one or two days a week you spend 7 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: at the office means you have far less flexibility than 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: if your organization was a true remote first company. So 9 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: how is being a remote friendly company different from being 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: remote first and why does it even matter? My name 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: is doctor Romantha Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist and the 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: I work, a show about how to help you do 14 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: your best work. On today is my favorite Tip episode. 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: We go back to an interview from the past and 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: I pick out my favorite tip from the interview. So 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: in today's show, I go back to my chat with 18 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: job Van Dervoort, who is the founder and CEO of 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: remote dot Com. Job was previously the vice president of 20 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: product at git Lab, so he knows a thing or 21 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: two about remote work. 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: I think there's two very strong forces that will make 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 2: sure that remote working will only continue to grow. The 24 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: first one being is the need for talent. It's it's 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 2: simply there's simply not enough talent in the neighborhood around 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: the office to ignore remote work, right. You know that. Now, 27 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 2: if you're an employer you want to hire the best person, 28 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 2: you can just find them by saying, well, it doesn't 29 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: matter where you live or where you want to live, 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: we will hire you. And so that's the first one. 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: It's like the hard need for talent and the need 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: to just look outside of the direct vicinity of anybody 33 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: particular offers. And the other one is because of the 34 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: pandemic and many of us were forced to work from home, 35 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: the secret is out that you can actually do most 36 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: jobs from home or do them remotely. And so independent 37 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: of what an employer might decide to do post pandemic, 38 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: they might say, well, everybody has to go to the office. 39 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: Each individual knows that remote working is a thing that 40 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: is possible and it is a thing that you can do. 41 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: So even if your current employee forces you to go 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 2: back to the office, you know that, well, if you 43 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: like this, or if you see the potential of hey, 44 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: if I work remotely, I can move somewhere else, or 45 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: I can travel well working, then you are going to 46 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 2: think to yourself, well, maybe I'll look for a different job, 47 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: and there will be plenty of jobs, because again, the 48 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: need for talent will make it so that employers will 49 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: try to do what is what people actually want, and 50 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 2: many people want to work remotely. 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: It's interesting what I'm seeing happening in Australia is that 52 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: a lot of organizations are encouraging their staff to come 53 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: back to the office, which is actually the opposite of 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: what we've done at Inventing. In my consultancy, we have 55 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: gotten rid of our Melbourne and Sydney lasers and we 56 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: are now officially a remote first company. But you know, 57 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: is there a difference between being a remote first versus 58 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: just a remote friendly company where people can work from 59 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: home but they're kind of encouraged to come into the 60 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: office at least a couple of days a week. 61 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. I think it starts by the fact that 62 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: in one of these two scenarios, if you're remote friendly 63 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 2: and you still encourage people to go to the office, 64 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 2: you take away the freedom of living anywhere, right. I 65 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: think that's I think there's a large component. I always 66 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 2: think that remote work fundamentally and remote First, companies give 67 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: you more freedom. And so if you are going to 68 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: restricted freedom by saying well, you have to be in 69 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: a particular location, that immediately implies that you also have 70 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: to work in particular hours. Because most people work during 71 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: the day, like I do, between nine and five, nine 72 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: and seven or so, so you immediately restrict that and 73 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: immediately limit that. And then if you also require them 74 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: to actually come into the office, it means that they 75 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: can't actually move anywhere. So I don't think it's remote 76 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: friendly if you like that. I think it's about encouraging 77 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: or requiring people to be closed to the office. That 78 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: that is the real problem here. And then if you 79 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: don't allow people to actually far away and fully work remotely, 80 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: you're not remote friendly. You just want a business that 81 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: sometimes people can work from home. And lastly, of course 82 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: what happens is that your company culture will not be asynchronous, 83 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: it will not fully embrace remote work because people are 84 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: going to rely on their moments to being together in 85 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: the office. It's a natural tendency that we have because 86 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: communicating in person is much easier than communicating through a computer, 87 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: and so it requires much less work for you to 88 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 2: just talk to me rather than writing something. It requires 89 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 2: much less work to just walk over into the office 90 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 2: rather than setting up a meeting when I'm remotely. And 91 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: so if part of the company or all of the 92 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 2: company regularly meets in the office, they are going to 93 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: lean into the time that they're in office and using 94 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: that to communicate and using that for meetings. And it 95 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: will essentially means that if you work remotely, work isolated. 96 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: It's a bad idea to work like that. Okay, I 97 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 2: think you don't have to accept like everybody works remotely 98 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 2: all the time and it happened to be offices where 99 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: you can sit and work some of the time, or 100 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 2: you have to say, well, we are just not a 101 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: remote company. 102 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you are into 103 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: what this show is about, you might want to follow 104 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: me on the social networks. So you can find me 105 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn if you search for Amantha Imba. You can 106 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at Amantha, and you can find 107 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: me on Instagram, which I'm starting to be a little 108 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: bit more active on at Amantha. How I Work is 109 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios. 110 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: The audio mix for today's show was done by mardin 111 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: imba who makes everything sound awesome. Thanks so much and 112 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: I'll see you next time.